1995: Can HORNBY TRAINS Compete in the '90s? | The Money Programme | BBC Archive

Nils Blythe looks at the appeal of Hornby model railways and Scalextric. Once a train set was every child's dream gift, but do traditional toys now appeal more to nostalgic adults than children? The Money Programme looks at Hornby's attempts to stay relevant in the increasingly competitive global toy market.
Clip taken from The Money Programme, originally broadcast on BBC Two, 17 December, 1995.
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[@TheStevenWhiting]

Problem is they are made in China cheaply yet still put a high markup on them so people struggle to buy as they are so expensive.

[@gelwaregeorge2685]

it costs sometimes millions to tool a model before you even start the manufacturing process, then you have to pay for shipping and distribution. Hornby charges too much these days but producing model railway items is not cheap

[@williamscates3915]

​@@gelwaregeorge2685 the issue was parting with the right methods they had at Margate. Common parts between similar locos (gears, motors, screws, con rods) and issuing proper spares is their downfall. One thing goes wrong and their 'repair' team can't fix it. They today sell 1970s and 1980s lima models with new paint and a cheap motor (they put it in in 2005). The moulding costs are only those of maintenance and then minimal detail to the loco, yet its £100+ rrp. Same goes for the E2 / 0-6-0 chassis. Same motor and basic design since the 80s. Motor costs pence, the rest a few quid at most. The moulding has been going that long, yet £70 rrp. The little 0-4-0s too. released in 1977 and rrp over £40 today. They have tried to maximise profit on the people that will keep their business going, but don't make much on the overly expensive models only the older customers buy. They lose the 'fun' market with price, and the experienced market with silly, not viable, cost cutting. Unfortunately people see today's Hornby as the same company as in this video, they have 2 different ways of existing!

[@miamitten1123]

That’s not the main problem. It’s not as entertaining as a games console or computer.

[@davidkavanagh189]

@@miamitten1123 The same nonsense arguments have been made for decades. The primary market for model trains is men over 40. I have never understood the made up story of declining interest from kids.

[@VauxhallRailfan]

@@miamitten1123everyone has there own interests. This is bullshit.

[@nellyfett2681]

Like most toys nowadays, all bought by 45 year old man children like me!

[@VauxhallRailfan]

well, im 14 and i just found out about this hobby a year ago, and its still absolutely amazing.

[@rossco29]

My first hornby was thomas the tank engine and intercity 125 in 1996 when I was a wee lad. An now I got model railways I start in 2008 till today and I go model railway exhibition and trades from second hand decent price and new latest. And my birthday and Christmas came what unveiled from wrapping paper for surprise. My future I'll build my new layout inside the big shed my mum's partner no longer use and I hopefully extend make larger room in my mum's back garden

[@azuma892]

Now we have Brickpunk and Beatles merch, oh how far Hornby has come...

[@VauxhallRailfan]

- sigh -

[@fburton8]

Screeching cockerel cuddly toy… Cuddle that and it’ll put your eye out!

[@BrendanRaymondKoroKoro]

Wish I could afford them... They're far too expensive... :'(

[@edgein7892]

The price isn't always a guarantee for quality. You could buy a loco for over 300 quid but if one of these plastic gears rips it still doesn't run. I mostly stick with old stuff. Bought four non runners last year for 15 quid and recently got round to opening them up. All they needed was a bit of cleaning and they were good to go, would have been at most 25 quid to replace a motor. Very basic engines but I can never resist them

[@williamscates3915]

@@edgein7892 The old stuff doesn't die. That was what built the brand name!

[@miamitten1123]

Are they THAT expensive now!?

[@edgein7892]

@@miamitten1123 It may depend on what people would call expensive obviously but prices have increased significantly. Gone are the days when you could buy them with your regular purchases at your local department store. There is the odd exception in HO scale where there are tons of manufacturers who also produce cheaper stuff targeting mostly kids but especially in the smaller scales or where there aren't that many manufacturers it can be pricey.

[@BritishRail60062]

Go for the older stuff. Its cheaper and in most ways more fun.

[@edgein7892]

At 0:53 this kid actually makes a good point, a simple set gets boring quickly. Even today the najority of sets is just a simple oval, there were good sets that provided plenty of action and were cheaper than buying everything separate. Pricies have also gone through the roof sometimes for a beginner, there would be nothing wrong with a few simpler models at more affordable prices to keep people and especially kids interested. People could always buy the more detailed stuff later on if they're still interested in the hobby.

[@vikingsmb]

hornby and bachmann have made things expensive

[@_RandomPea]

​@@vikingsmb wasn't the manufacturing outsourced to China to be cheaper.. 😂

[@MarkCerbo]

Hornby now also owns Corgi die-cast since 2008. Let's hope these traditional toys gets the support not only from adult collectors, but spark interest for the younger generation.

[@borderlands6606]

The desire to play with tangible 3-dimensional objects is a rarity among youngsters today. It always required imagination and the suspension of disbelief, and those are in short supply.

[@Insearchofpeace-iv2lm]

@@borderlands6606 spot on as a kid I was given a second hand steve austin missing bionic things but it did come with something he could grip an engine I explored all my Mothers carpet with my engine turned floaty thing in my youth imagination running wild.

[@williamscates3915]

@@borderlands6606 I've just replied to a comment with something on the same lines. It's not what fun the gift offers out the box, it's how fun the parents and the child can make it! Turn imagination to reality!

[@DamiensTrainsandTravels]

Nearly 30 years later the plot has been lost on prices and other competitors. Not cheap. Sad.

[@JamesLMason]

My god! This is the spit of the news reader from 'The Day Today'.

[@Eric_Hunt194]

I've recently rewatched TDT, as a result this whole clip was uncanny to watch!

[@edgein7892]

Oh great, now that Panty Smile commercial is stuck in my head again. Thanks for that 🤣

[@bimb0cat]

The Day Today.

[@ThisOldGuy1965]

I had a model train set as a kid though it wasn't a Hornby one but a West German one made by Fleischmann. Still have it and perhaps one day I'll make a little 4x6 layout for it again.

[@bardo0007]

Look in the mid 90's it was all about computers and new games, I remember I played with Scalectrix back in the early 80's when I was a kid. But the first TV game consoles changed everything.

[@hamsticklehq]

that pecking chicken is AMAZING

[@Eric_Hunt194]

Take my pecking money! 😂

[@thewotsit]

The problem with trains is they only go round in circles, that's why I want a SNES with Mario Kart.

[@Insearchofpeace-iv2lm]

Listen to the Kid Hornby simple as

[@edgein7892]

True but at least there is more action in that game than there would be with one train on a circle.

[@georgemorley1029]

So you can make Mario go round in a circle. Checks out.

[@williamscates3915]

@@edgein7892 that's where children have lost the ability to imagine and make it a reality. All on a screen rather than making it run yourself. If you apply yourself for 20 minutes you can make a right puzzle of a train track which is both complex and fun to operate!

[@TinLeadHammer]

​​@@williamscates3915What is to imagine when you have pre-built train cars in you hands? As for creating a track layout, a game like "Pipe Dream" can do it better. Kids don't want physical toys anymore, this is the reason Toys-R-Us went bankrupt. Could have foreseen it 30 years earlier.

[@leeosborne3793]

Hahaha! I had to smile when I saw a Toy Stack store - my first full time job was in one of their shops, from 1993 to 1994, when I left to join...the railway. I was very keen on model railways as a kid, but eventually lost interest and the ability to keep a layout going following a succession of house moves. I don't have any of the stuff any more, but Hornby's latest TT:120 range has caught my eye.

[@76ToneCrome]

I had a Dukes of Hazard Scalextric. I'm crying as I write this.

[@RolandoRatas]

was that the one with the ramp ? it must have been

[@76ToneCrome]

@RolandoRatas It had a little jump ( like a little section of road missing). 9 times out of 10, the cars would miss the groove on the other side of the jump and crash out of the track. But when you hit the groove on the other side, you felt like the king of the world.

[@PP266]

I wanted a train set from 1989. Till today :D It's quite expensive!

[@RunOfTheHind]

Snowing in Margate in '95 - must've been when I was doing my mock GCSEs! Just about to play my first gig at the Lido after xmas! Mellon Collie & One Hot Minute in my stereo. "That is what this factory is particularly good at it - producing a high quality product"...all the while he was shipping the manufacturing abroad, sacking the staff, keeping the prices the same or raising them and pocketing the difference.

[@maidenthe80sla]

The gamer kids in this video became a marketer's dream and for some it is an obsession. From that time on and decades after these businesses have turned a huge part of the population into rampant consumers who buy anything tied to the media they grew up with since they were babies.

[@sleepyheadsleeps]

I doubt Hornby is manufactured in the UK today, probably the far east.

[@RolandoRatas]

moved to Guangdong province in China in 1995, completed by 1999

[@JJONNYREPP]

@@RolandoRatas 1995: Can HORNBY TRAINS Compete in the '90s? | The Money Programme | BBC Archive did the politicians cry when hong kong was handed over to china? no!!! it was due to them sending the company, hornby, to china... ask chris patton. as for model train sets and Scalextric. still cool i think. the trouble with going round and round suggests elaborating on your set. which means you need more room in your home...which means gettin' dad to convert the loft....which means.... anyhow; the context is missing.... the design of the train seems to have descended into the regions of the moribund and drab, boring... and utilitarian, as opposed to the exciting and vital and visually pleasing. that might be the issue in the main.... actual train designers need to make their engines more visually interactive and exciting. there's no value in the drab and mundane. not where kids are concerned. i think the last bastion of the model train is pete waterman, who became a random record producer to fund his model train addiction. well done, pete!! he's on youtube somewhere playing with it...

[@4879daniel]

@RolandoRatas - so started about five minutes after the interview when he said they “might” move overseas in the future.

[@JJONNYREPP]

@@4879daniel Comments Comments on ‘1995: Can HORNBY TRAINS Compete in the '90s? | The Money Programme | BBC Archive’ 1057am 30.9.24 i bet he didnt even say that... after the fact excuses as to why they moved the company overseas....

[@Chonkulease]

Actually they've moved most of their production back to britain

[@edwinreid8355]

Funnily enough, in 1995 I also had a model railway train set ( recognised the 225 train instantly as that's the set I had ). My brother got his own set years before along with some rolling stock plus my dad had a Hornby Dublo set when he was a 50's kid so naturally I was spurred on from all that. Nowadays I have a Nintendo Switch ( nothing can compete with a Games Consule, every guy my age or younger has one in their home ) but back then the railway stuff was something that me & my dad were quite passionate about. Use to get a Bachman Steam Locomotive in my stocking most Xmas' cos my dad thought their version's looked more authentic looking than the Hornby ones I think.

[@Thaisistercunny]

I like trains

[@IKS-Exploration]

I’m here on a bbc channel and I find myself getting adverts!! Why am I paying my license??

[@dean6816]

A poster of the track layout! I bet they couldn't make them fast enough after that spark of genius 🙄

[@miamitten1123]

0:54 The Govner

[@dougalmcdougal8682]

1/2 these kids need a bike or a pair of football books …

[@TechnoMinded-qp5in]

I was more obsessed with video games and hanging out with my friends growing up as a kid making a bond with them I remember playing multiplayer games growing up with my friend at their house. I was also more obsessed with computers for my age when I was like 8 years old I've had an obsession with computers. I think the last time I had a train was only around the Christmas tree also hello from North America everything was so different from back then I was born in 1992 and I'm currently 31 looking at history in the making is kind of close enough to me being in a time machine it's very interesting how better everything looked back then it felt like another world.

[@krashd]

That's the funny thing, as a kid who grew up playing video games in the 90's I was often told by just about any adult that it was antisocial (despite there being a bunch of us in my room playing games) and that I should be outside, at least I wasn't playing with train sets which have absolutely no multiplayer ability as far as I can see. I wonder if parents who have nerds say to them "you should be playing video games with other kids your age!" to try and ween them on to consoles first before introducing them to sunlight later?

[@mrroobarb]

I want that chicken toy! 2:31

[@KirkRedgate]

I live in the UK, Essex. Christmas 1995 I was 11 years old, and I was playing Resident Evil on PS1 with my older brothers. I still play games today lol, never had model trains. I was more into action figures like WWF and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtkes, and watching shows like Saved by the Bell and The Wonder Years. I had just started skating. I miss the 90's so much, Christmas holidays with my family were the best, magical times. Being a street kid and hanging out with friends, kissing girls for the first time, drinking white lightning or 20/20 and having fun, the world was alive and exciting, your whole life is ahead of you.... I'm now 40 🥴.

[@MarknoblesAcidhouseparty]

Better off aiming towards more for adults than kids id say . i was one of those kids on earlier part of the programme (not literally) who wouldnt care for one . However i woildnt mind one now ....

[@williamscates3915]

As someone who was that sort of age only 10 years ago I can see why kids prefer screens and games. There are two things to the Christmas gift though; how fun can the parent make it and how fun can the kid make it? The track they have is almost limitless in its different setups. It's possible to make it a challenge and fun to drive them round pointwork and sidings. Its where i've seen my generation (and by thsi video I guess a few before it) gradually lose the ability to turn imagination into reality

[@bluesrocker91]

I was the same... I would've been about 4 or 5 when this programme was made, and as a kid I never had any real interest in train sets or models etc. Now in my 30s I get the appeal and model making in particular has become a major hobby for me. I don't really know why... It's certainly not nostalgia. The 3 or 4 Airfix kits I attempted as a kid were always at best a disappointment and at worst a complete disaster. But I've built 11 in the past year alone and have a stack of kits still to do. I think there just comes a point in life where you start needing something more cerebral to occupy your time.

[@dutchbeef8920]

Still lots of “latent potential” and its still untapped. Overpriced rubbish.

[@RolandoRatas]

Who here was a child back in the 80s whose parents only got them a TCR racing set and was disappointed ?

[@scottishwildcat]

Nope... that was the only one I ever wanted, and couldn't have been happier with it! Having to time your overtakes was much more fun, and the jam car meant you could even practise on your own.

[@AtheistOrphan]

I REALLY wanted a TCR set! (The TV adverts made it look so exciting) but it was expensive compared to Scalextric so that’s what I got. Still great fun though. My favourite car was the JPS Lotus 72.

[@hopebgood]

I had a train set when I was a kid. Red plastic interlocking track with little plastic trains and carriages. Hours of fun when I was about 5.

[@alantraish3368]

It’s all about attention span today. Instant gratification or its boring for todays kids(altho not all). A former steam train driver working on modern computer controlled trains had to do the reverse of that. He went to the Bluebell railway to see the late great Clive Groome engine driver saying” I need a fix”. Meaning back to reality for him driving the old steamers.

[@fburton8]

Anxious? Christmas? Wow!

[@lmn28021992]

My very first Hornby trainset was R1005 'Industrial Frieght' came with a bright green British Railways 0-4-0 steam shunter and three wagons. That was made in 'Great Britain'. Loved it. My second ever locomotive was an identical shunter, but in red, which was made in China and I always remember noticing it wasn't quite as good as the green one. Shame they had to move production to the far east and the hobby didn't pick up more.

[@johntanner3659]

Based on the date of this item, and me moving back into railway modelling, they don't mention that Bachmann were offering improved models and were taking a share from Hornby. Also, I think Hornby had already outsourced production of the track some years earlier.

[@joshwilliams0391]

They were definitely still popular in the ‘90s. At least I think they were. I used to memorise the page numbers in the Argos catalogue that they appeared on, and I used to spend hours looking through the Hornby catalogue dreaming about how each item would look on my layout.

[@AliciaR.Perkins-m6n]

You're a trailblazer in your field! 🚀 - "The only thing that stands between you and your goal is the story you keep telling yourself about why you can't achieve

[@jamtart606]

£500 a year on model railways? That will barely get you anything these days!

[@leeosborne3793]

I was just thinking that - 2 locos, maybe 3 at a pinch.

[@TinLeadHammer]

Nice sound design for the InterCity 125.

[@Sali8two]

I bought a Playstation in the end

[@swaneknoctic9555]

The part when he is talking towards the end, it looks like a shopping centre. Could easily be mistaken for 2024. Weird.

[@melchestermodelrailway]

Mark was prepared to pay £500 a year on his hobby. These days it's more lije 5,000!

[@jayrap94]

Cost puts me off the most (my last train purchase was back in 2012), but so does availability of rolling stock from where I live in London. I am not really into old trains - I'd quite like a representation of what I see commuting into London Waterloo, of which only Bachmann has made (and sold out) a train that still operates albeit under its former South West Trains brand.

[@chrissilvester5663]

Kids these days are so absorbed in their technology they wouldn't like having all these classical items like these train sets. Back when I was a wee kid these were essential. Didn't have all this technology & games consoles. Back when toys actually had meaning & value

[@_RandomPea]

Hmmm...before you were a kid what did kids do then? 😂 I'm not saying you're wrong but we need some perspective, I'm sure long before you were a kid they'd have made do without electricity, and so you would have been seen by older generations as a kid "absorbed in your new fangled electric toys" 😊😂

[@matthewtrow5698]

This is so funny. I was 27 in 1995, yet I agree with the kids in this video - train sets are boring. I never wanted one as a kid - a new bicycle maybe, but in 1979/1980, it would've been the same as these kids - a new video games console. That was close to 1st on the list. A meccano set with a motor was right up there too. Turned out in 1979 I got a new bicycle - racer (cheap one) and in 1980 I got a meccano set with a motor. I was happy with both. A train set? So damn boring. As one kid said "just watching it go round and round" In 1981, I got a ZX80 - my first computer. I never did get a train set, apart from the one my Dad gave us as kids, which he got as a kid and which was safety hazard by the time we got it. The transformer used to overheat and the electric plug still had that old cloth cable, it was so old. I think the plug was bakerlite. Perhaps my dad wanted to kill us, who knows 😆 Like the Monopoly board we also got from him, as well as the Dandy and Beano annuals, all circa 1940's - if only they had been kept in good condition. Would've fetched a fortune now. Instead, we wrecked them - what does a 7 or 8 year old know about such things?

[@ryanohara476]

My first Hornby train set was the playtrains red plastic clip-together track Thomas passenger clockwork train set with Annie and Clarabel aged 2 for Christmas 1993. Fast forward to 1996 I received the Industrial Freight set and the High Speed Train 20th Anniversary train set. Please BBC Archive more Railway related BBC Archive television please.

[@shaunigothictv1003]

Mark seems like a great bloke. I wonder what happened to him?

[@JohnDoe-tx8lq]

30 years on and Hornby are still around and making the metal trains, so they made the right decisions! 😎👍🚂🚃🚃🚃

[@AtheistOrphan]

100% made in China though. (And VERY expensive!)

[@JohnDoe-tx8lq]

@@AtheistOrphan ... and? They're a business, the price is where it should be for them to survive which means they're not too expensive. Any cheaper and Hornby trains no longer exist. Would interesting to see where all the gadgets / toys / electronics you have bought instead of Hornby are made.

[@Chonkulease]

@@AtheistOrphan Actually they started moving all their production back to the UK in 2015, only the tt and railroad ranges are staying in china. (Doesn't make them any less overpriced, especially after the last price hike)

[@williamscates3915]

@@Chonkulease back in the 60s, Tri-ang employed thousands in the railways departments. Mostly young women too because thinner fingers build better models!. Imagine the support they'd get from a decent government in moving production fully back here and offering thousands of jobs!

[@leeosborne3793]

@@williamscates3915 Thing is, the technology has moved on and manufacture is highly automated now. 3D printing is massive in the model railway world now, people can make stuff themselves. It's never going to employ thousands again.

[@mr.invisible3123]

Time wasting and expensive hobby

[@dougalmcdougal8682]

Tell me a hobby that isn’t time wasting 🤷🏾 That’s what Hobbys are by there very nature …

[@TeaLuck1]

Loved model trains

[@Insearchofpeace-iv2lm]

If Hornby could build an actual fully working steam locomotive then I think the youth would relish owning one

[@Phleeper]

They did, and it wasn't successful.

[@leeosborne3793]

@@Phleeper Yeah - it was an impressive system but very expensive, and used a controller incompatible with anything else.

[@studywithme7677]

The games console stole our heritage and ruined children's lives forever

[@daveworthing2294]

All these toys are now cheap and nasty, with terrible quality. Action Man, Airfix, all rubbish nowadays.