What FFB is realistic for sim drifting? (2 to 20 Nm)

[@KameTrick]

Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/hellofresh_kametrick, use my code POGHF131918, and receive 16 free meals + free dessert for life while subscription is active!

[@maximous-prime]

For JUST racing do you recommend g923 (im on Xbox btw)

[@maximous-prime]

I’m on a budget btw (below 350, so I can’t use moza r5)

[@noremacecir5503]

i know this isnt a drifting tutorial but watching this video answered so many questions i had about the parallel from AC to life, and gave me such a deep insight on how my 2nm gear drive wheel was hurting my drifting that i went back into assetto corsa and, within an hour or so, i was able to not only physically correct for the downfalls of my wheel, but also spot a corner, aim for it, do a weight transition, and nail the corner. Not perfect by any means but i can aim for corners now and stay on the track. I only have around 5 hours of drifting practice. I have since ordered a logitech pro wheel.

[@XianRui-nu6yf]

what if you play with vr and have a 8nm direct driven.

[@spacedoutcowboy5211]

This video shows how much quiter nice DD wheels are compared to entry level gear drive wheels. My logitec G920 was so loud

[@JimmyNuisance]

My G25 was also mad loud compared to the T-GT2 I have these days. DD is even much more quiet than the belt driven T-GT2 I have. I really want Thrustmaster to make a DD base for Playstation dammit... I need it for GT7 in VR.

[@RallyAddict555]

​@@JimmyNuisancethe entry level fanatec dd wheels and pedals work for both ps4 and ps5, and theyre only 5nm so can still just mount it to a desk if you dont have a rig

[@larniaxx]

Hey I’ve been thinking of getting this one with the extra 3 nm cable , do you think it’d be worth waiting a few more weeks to get or jumping straight away to the t300rs gt? I just want to be able to be satisfied and have a good enough feedback and immersing experience. I notice it’s almost double the price for the dd but also double the nm , could I please get your opinion?​@@RallyAddict555

[@C.I...]

My Driving Force GT would scream when I tried to drift, especially if I had to wrestle it round faster than it wanted to go. I thought my lack of control in a drift was a skill issue, but it might not have been, judging by this vid lol

[@hendri_aja_dech]

Try PXN V12 lite bro, entry level for DDS, it's quiet and smooth without breaking bank acc...

[@MazdaChris]

One thing not mentioned here, but worth keeping in mind, is that you ideally want to be using any wheel at less than 100%. This is less of a specific issue with drifting but definitely something for grip driving, since when you're at 100% you can run into a lot of clipping - this is where the motor is operating at its maximum force and can't go further, so you lose all the fine detail from the feedback. You want to have 10-20% of headroom on your wheel to avoid this.

[@KRNLL]

can’t do that with a shitty logitech bc there’s not even enough ffb when it is set at 100 with the gear driven wheel

[@fortnitesweat7314]

would getting something like a simucube 2 ultimate give u finer details at 8nm than for example an r12 or something comparable?

[@boneskkksk]

@@KRNLL logitech isnt shitty lol

[@boneskkksk]

well, atleast on logitech wheels, getting less details means the wheel goes back faster so its even better for drifting, thats why people disable the effects lol

[@KRNLL]

@@boneskkksk What I’m saying is that the wheel doesn’t have enough power for transitions/manji’s. You have to steer it so it spins faster which isn’t realistic.

[@staffanstuff]

REGARDING FANATEC: The base is what makes it compatible with Playstation. The wheel is what makes it compatible with Xbox. So you can use the GT DD Pro/DD+/Extreme with an Xbox compatible wheel and, boom, you can play PC, Playstation and Xbox with the same rig. CSL DD/Clubsport DD will not work the other way around though so you'll be stuck with PC/Xbox only.

[@xTheEcO]

Product lines confuse me, so just to double check, if I wanted to have a mostly PC wheel with occasional GT7 on PS5: Get something like DD+ (If I want 12~15nm), and any wheels (GT3, F1, Round wheel for drifting etc) and (Fanatec) pedals? and I should have no problems?

[@staffanstuff]

@@xTheEcO That's correct. Any Fanatec wheel/pedals with DD+ and you're good to go... When playing GT7 you'll plug ONE usb cable to the console because the wheel base acts as a periphery hub (RJ12 connectors) for pedals/handbrake. That's why you can't use a sweet handbrake from VNM (usb connector) when playing PS5 for instance. PC - no problem. And I guess you'll do most of the drifting on PC anyway..

[@K.O.I_WORK]

Collective minds Drive hub fixes all that for $80

[@bumblebeeisfree]

Even more of a reason to go with the DD pro. Interesting

[@jxstvoid7151]

@@staffanstuff Would you be able to tell me if the RJ12 connectors the same connector thats used in the moza r3 Shifter slot?

[@TheBlackHombre]

This is the definitive video for where to get started into sim drifting. Amazing job

[@mph2954]

I thought so aswell but arnt some wheel badrs peak torque ans sime constant rated torque?

[@TheBlackHombre]

@@mph2954 Yes, but the majority of wheel bases advertise their peak torque - not sustained torque. From personal experience, my Moza R9 (peak torque of 9nm) does everything I need for drifting, and is capable of maintaining a fast enough wheel speed even after a long play session. So according to KameTrick, having a wheelbase with either a peak or sustained torque between 8 - 12nm will give you a great drifting experience.

[@bumblebeeisfree]

The definitive channel you mean. Kame trick really is hidden gold.

[@freshcoastdrifttracks6074]

Sick seeing you drrive my speedsportz track on video! Great video idea and well executed!

[@This_is_Elzed]

Conclusion : 8nm is the sweet spot for realistic drift :) Thank you for your video, it is really helpful.

[@myemth1506]

He made an error. Increasing the NM increases both the range and peak force, but to adjust the overall feel, he should have used the FORCE or STRENGTH setting. While 8NM is adequate, it's not optimal, as it limits the range of force and reduces the definition between different force levels. Increasing NM does impact the overall force, but that's because the strength or force setting is a percentage of the available force. For example, 50% of 15NM will be stronger than 50% of 8NM. However, NM should not be used to fine-tune the feel-it's meant to set the maximum force, typically for safety or heat considerations. To adjust the feel, you should use the strength or force settings instead.

[@extremeencounter7458]

@@myemth1506So 6nm on an 8nm wheel will feel like less detail than 6nm on a 16nm wheel? Does that mean all the detail is essentially just getting compressed? In that case, would a 12nm wheel like the R12 be enough? And since I’m on a roll, does decreasing the strength not introduce artificial clipping, since the max peak outputs won’t reach above the limit, or is everything scaled into a ratio?

[@myemth1506]

@extremeencounter7458 You can think of it like compression, but it's more about range. A good comparison is to a monitor’s contrast ratio-the higher the contrast, the greater the difference between the lightest and heaviest forces the wheel can simulate. This wider range allows for finer details in between. A higher Nm rating in a wheelbase gives you more precision over those subtle variations, enhancing immersion and accuracy. When you increase strength on a lower-Nm wheelbase, you may experience FFB clipping. This occurs because, while the overall strength is raised, the peak torque (Nm) remains limited. As a result, you're amplifying everything the simulation outputs, and if your Nm rating is low, you'll hit that ceiling more often, which leads to a loss of detail, particularly at higher forces. If you reduce torque too much, you lose finer details in the low-end forces. Conversely, increasing strength to compensate for low-end loss you will lose details to clipping at the top end. Safety and durability are the main reasons to lower Nm, as most motorsports don't go beyond 15-17Nm of FFB, with only a few open-wheel classes reaching 20Nm or more. Still, a higher Nm wheelbase, like a 22Nm wheel running at 15Nm, will outperform a 15Nm base at full capacity. This is because higher-Nm bases are more responsive, have finer control, and operate optimally when not maxed out. That said, some drivers prefer to run higher settings for added realism, especially during crashes where forces spike-this is why rally drivers often release the wheel in an accident. For most racing categories, ~15Nm is sufficient, and you wouldn’t want to sacrifice torque unless you're using a 20Nm+ wheel to stay within that ideal 15-17Nm range. Higher Nm feels stronger because the force setting is based on a percentage of the total Nm, with the Nm rating defining the peak force and range of FFB. A higher-Nm base, even at lower force settings, delivers more detailed, granular force feedback, giving you a more accurate and responsive feel, which translates to a more immersive driving experience. I personally own a Simagic Alpha which is advertised as a 15Nm base but it does peak at around 17Nm.

[@myemth1506]

@@extremeencounter7458 You can think of it like compression, but it's more about range. A good comparison is to a monitor’s contrast ratio-the higher the contrast, the greater the difference between the lightest and heaviest forces the wheel can simulate. This wider range allows for finer details in between. A higher Nm rating in a wheelbase gives you more precision over those subtle variations, enhancing immersion and accuracy. When you increase force on a lower-Nm wheelbase, you may experience force feedback (FFB) clipping. This occurs because, while the overall force is raised, the peak torque (Nm) remains limited. As a result, you're amplifying everything the simulation outputs, and if your Nm rating is low, you'll hit that ceiling more often, which leads to a loss of detail, particularly at higher forces. Tuning the force setting is about preference, but letting the simulation use the full range of torque is key to maintaining fidelity. If you reduce torque too much, you lose finer details in the low-end forces. Conversely, increasing strength to compensate for low-end loss can cause high-end clipping, where peak forces become compressed and lack clarity. Safety and durability are the main reasons to lower Nm, as most motorsports don't go beyond 15-17Nm of FFB, with only a few open-wheel classes reaching 20Nm or more. Still, a higher Nm wheelbase, like a 22Nm wheel running at 16Nm, will outperform a 16Nm base at full capacity. This is because higher-Nm bases are more responsive, have finer control, and operate optimally when not maxed out. That said, some drivers prefer to run higher settings for added realism, especially during crashes where forces spike-this is why rally drivers often release the wheel in an accident. For most racing categories, ~15Nm is sufficient, and you wouldn’t need more unless you're using a 20Nm+ wheel. Higher Nm feels stronger because the force setting is based on a percentage of the total Nm, with the Nm rating defining the peak force and range of FFB. A higher-Nm base, even at lower force settings, delivers more detailed, granular force feedback, giving you a more accurate and responsive feel, which translates to a more immersive driving experience.

[@neonnerd1364]

Great video. I'm looking to upgrade my wheel soon since I'm using a g920 with an aftermarket wheel. It's not too bad but I have noticed it doesn't quite spin fast enough on certain cars and it does clip and shake a ton when ffb and centering force is cranked up to compensate but I've still had a blast on it since it's what got me into Sim drifting.

[@gtrslngrchris]

I started on a G923 and got mildly competent and when I got my DD wheel I instantly leveled up by a large degree. You can absolutely make it work on the lower end wheels but it's such a better experience with a belt drive or DD wheel.

[@neonnerd1364]

@@gtrslngrchris ya I definitely want to upgrade. I only got the g920 because I got the wheel pedals and shifter used for $200 usd and it was like brand new and I didn't want to spend an arm and a leg just in case I didn't get that into it. Now I'm super into it and I've quickly found the limits of the g920 but I've been making it work as much as I can for the time being. I started on live for speed and then switched to assetto and beamng once I got my first gaming pc last summer.

[@veeembee]

@@neonnerd1364 i also went from a g29 to a 8nm dd and i instantly was able to link tracks and tandem compared to rarely linking a track on my g29 its 100% worth if you play alot and mostly drift but if you dont play alot or grip race the dd isnt worth it, put that money into a good set of pedals instead

[@SerialDriver]

Interesting but you're missing one important point : slew rate. And stronger bases have also higher slew rate. For example, a sc2 sport might have enough Nm, but has a slower slew rate than the sc2 pro. So even if you're not using all the nm of the sc2 pro, you will have a better experience

[@samo3931]

Your pronaunciation of Tykkimäki, Kouvola was a OK. Was a bit confused that you suddenly said the name of my hometown. Anyway, thank you for the video, it was really helpful. Greetings from Kouvola, Finland!

[@KameTrick]

Haha yeah, I love small and technical tracks, so I'm always on the looking for neat IRL venues from around the world! I'd love to visit and cut some laps there, someday :)

[@gothops154]

I don’t know why people want 20nm wheels. It’s simply not realistic, at least for the driving I do (even F1 cars have power steering, but F2 doesn’t so idk). I do rally racing in real life and the sim and these cars all have power steering, you don’t need to fight the wheel with every fiber of your being, it’s should be quite easy actually. Depending on the game I might even turn my G Pro down to 4nm like in Dirt Rally and other times keep it up to 10nm in games like WRC10, because the game is definitely not using all 10nm, so there is some game to game difference vs real life as well. But the moral of the story here is you shouldn’t be fighting with your wheel, that does not add realism. Pick a NM that allows feedback to come thru and the wheel to self steer (at least in the case of DD wheels) while still being able to quickly manipulate the wheel yourself. If anything the biggest difference is between a cheaper belt driven wheel and a real DD wheel, that’s the biggest realism improvement you can give yourself.

[@smallbutdeadly931]

cuz 21nm is funny

[@dienkonig33]

The new for 2024 F2 car does have power steering actually, so even that is off the table now.

[@UTubeSL]

Thanks, and props to you for doing rally driving in real life! Mind if I ask whether you think Dirt Rally or WRC are realistic (damage simulation aside)?

[@josephbornman8462]

@@UTubeSL Regardless, RBR is super easy to recommend. There are many, many real-life stages that are imo very well done by modders And though there are some limitations, they've done well to give good logic to the game for rally car driving, and give you some options that you don't get in those games Also, you are able to download different voice packs people have made, as well as edit your own pacenotes (or, as I prefer, download Luppis' collection of all his edited pacenotes). This matters because the default pacenotes are not consistent among all modders, and I found that distracting. Coveniently, there was a solution for it Anyway, my point is I totally recommend RBR for the stages and feel of driving alone. Though the new games have advantages of their own of course

[@zepos]

Do you think it's worth to go from g29 to t300 RS or save and go straight to moza r5?

[@rcsibiu]

Thrustmaster T300 RS GT was an absolute PERFECT wheel for me. 3 pedals, cool shifter, nice 1080°of rotation, great alcantara finish for the stitches, I loved that wheel. I have some videos on my channel using it. Then I took my driving license and swapped for a real wheel in an Opel Astra G from 2001. I still miss my T300 and plan to buy a new one soon just for fun, also my daughter will learn to drive so she will need it for practice *(City Car Simulator is a MUST play for any new driver)

[@YuGoCheff]

How much of a difference was it to drive a real car? I mean did you learn to drive using the Thrustmaster and just had to "slightly adjust" in a real car? Or was it completely different to drive a real car?

[@rcsibiu]

@@YuGoCheff GREAT question! Honestly, the transition was almost perfect! Once you get some time in City Car Driving AND Euro Truck Simulator 2 (with small car mod) using wheel (including shifter and 3 pedal setup) you will find that driving a real car is really really easy, 99% similar to the game. At least that was the experience for me personally. I played a lot of driving video games, I did my driving school in real life and then when I bought my car everything felt very natural, very easy.

[@YuGoCheff]

@@rcsibiu Thank you so much for your answer ❤️ Then I‘m really looking forward to my setup 🙏

[@rrrrrryuuji9084]

was planning on getting a t300 RS GT myself. wondering if you might've considered getting a DD 8-12 nm one? for the sake of new experience maybe? IF you ever do, I'd love to hear your input and comparison jumping to that from a T300. Hope your daughter excels and passes her driving exam just as easily o/

[@rcsibiu]

@@rrrrrryuuji9084 hey Thanks for the comment you wrote for me! I wish I could buy a new wheel for gaming, but for now my financial status is very bad. I had to sell my T300RS GT and bought a real car, but I never got enough money to buy another wheel for gaming. Also thank you for the nice comment about my daughter. She is only 6 years old for now, but she is interested in cars, I will make sure to get her driving license when she turns 18. I wish you all the best!

[@FellowshipOfTheAviatorZ]

First I want to say, Thank you, for such an informative video. not many reviewers cover so many choices in one video. Just wanted to say at 8:15 The Cammus C5 actually has a rated/listed Holding Torque of 5nm but has been reviewed and recorded many times hitting all the way up to 8-9nm of peak torque which lands it above even the boost kit CSL's peak torque of 8nm! (The holding torque of 8nm CSL is around 5-6nm) The smaller rim size and overall look of the wheel may deter some.. I happen to quite like its quirky look, but with its shaftless motor design the return speed is amazingly good for drifting, and in my experience it hits Waaay above its weight class in terms of overall strength in its FFB and feels very hefty in Rally. For the price, it just can't be beat. From what I've seen C12 also has a listed Holding Torque of 12nm but actual Peak Torque is closer to 15-16nm. Its just the way Cammus rates their products. I highly recommend the C5 (I don't own a C12) For its price and performance its very good, just be mindful of any local warehouse near your country to help keep shipping costs down. Again, great video, man.

[@nuttyz]

me watching this with my ancient g920

[@sesh517]

me watching with my Driving Force GT

[@sp1ke25]

talking out of my soul

[@hatechannel6300]

​@@sesh517 I use Logitech momo racing with costom 900° mod😊

[@StreetRacingLifeStyle]

Same

[@official_buldog1300]

Pfff im sitting here with my g27

[@gtrslngrchris]

Great video! Production level through the roof, man!

[@brapgarage]

Excellent video, Ben. Fun and informational. Now I know what wheel to aim for next!

[@tristan7122]

G25 user here (yes 25 the one from 2008 or whenever it came out) I might be coping hard because I can't afford a direct drive wheel atm but to be honest, I prefer the numbness on the steering, because im a huge RTR drift team fan and those mustangs have almost no self steer IRL. So because I'm setting up my cars super aggressively in AC I like to work the wheel a little bit more, because I feel like, this is much closer to the real self steer of those hooked up pro cars than if I have a fully self steering wheel...

[@Taffaff]

you're reaching lethal levels of copium, unless you can find me a video of someone having to double flick the wheel on a mustang to reliably do a transition

[@tristan7122]

@@Taffaff Well i'm not saying the self steer is non existent on the real cars but it is VERY numb, all drivers from the RTR team have given their input in many interviews and videos on that and in in-car footage you can see how much they work the wheel. It's much more self-steery now than in prior years but still. And yes the g25 needs more feedback but i drove on a DD wheel (9nm peak) of a buddy of mine and i was pretty happy at 30% force

[@lawrenegummy4736]

2nm on a DD is different from 2nm on a belt or gear drive. It's not just the torque but also the mechanism that generates additional friction

[@limitetpancake]

I've been drifting for over 3y with a logitech g920 with a custom 32cm non deep-dish wheel, and I fully agree that 2.5nm is just not enough from a gear driven wheel. when im upgrading i wanted the moza r5, but im thinking about getting the r9 after seeing this video. thanks for the great advice

[@cheemsstar6882]

I have been sim drifting for 4 years on a cheap ass g920 in assetto and beamng, sims that are fairly hard to master and learn. And even tho i sometimes see the lack of information from my wheel, i learned to predict when the wheel is gonna underdeliver on the FFB and still was able to gain confidence in my driving and put togheter some nice tandems. Still i would love to get my hands on some nice DD rig. Lovely video:)

[@Duwentor]

And not a word about the fact that in the case of 4-6 nm bases, it will be necessary to turn their power to the limit (to achieve the power recommended in this video) and during long sessions at 100% they will overheat or break down faster. This is not yet a category of products where they are capable of large and long-term loads.

[@bumblebeeisfree]

Well this is only a recommendation. While I am highly considering getting the fanatec dd pro as an upgrade from the g29. Doesnt mean that I will go out and make a blind purchase just because Ben recommended it, I have to do my own research.so yeah I understand the criticism as there are plenty of people that will do that without doing research on their own.

[@magnusr3428]

Yeah exactly. I'd much rather be running my expensive hardware well within its capacity rather than right on the limit every time

[@bullit199]

Great work Kame Trick! Can see loads of time and effort went into this one. Great script, b-roll, images, and analysis based on your skills and experience!

[@stevewix]

I went from 2NM to 20NM via wheel upgrade. I never, ever use more than 10nm. 8nm in an Indycar can be challenging.

[@square3188]

i want to also get a 16nm and get a constant 9nm force ingame how can i do that? how did you set your ingame assetto corsa settings?

[@MichasMeinung]

Exzellent Video ❤ Can you share your Settings for the VRS Base and in AC.

[@Simracingcontent]

16:56 There is a Fanatec GT DD with 5 NM, and if you use a boost kit you will have 8 NM. You can't get a 12 NM Fanatec GT DD.

[@keppycs]

I had no idea 1080p could look this good! Beautiful cinematography

[@trophywolfe]

One factor being overlooked is that your wheel would be weighted different that others. A heavy wheel would spin slower than a lighter one, also the balance would affect this. Plus with cars adding in drive by wire the nm amount can be 1:1 if your wheel can match the specification.

[@저희나라]

AssettoCorsa? What was your FFB Gain setting while testing these.

[@RADERFPV]

I'm using the Simagic Alpha. It's 15nm, and feels just right to me. I'm at about 50 to 60% FFB in game.

[@myemth1506]

You should be adjusting the STRENGHT or FORCE setting, not the NM. The NM primarily affects the peak strength and increases the range of details, but it does indirectly control the overall force. For example, if the force is set to 50%, then 50% of 15NM will be stronger than 50% of 8NM. So, to achieve your desired feel, you should tweak the STRENGHT or FORCE setting instead back to your preferred feel. Many people don't fully understand this, and I recommend updating your video to clarify this point. That said, the video still provides valuable insights.

[@BinderVR]

this is so true. I completely agree with you. I use Fanatec GT DD PRO on 8Nm, on PS5. Just perfect. My older steering wheels are G27, T300, T500, but the DD is a perfect choice.

[@JimmyNuisance]

I drift at like 2-3nm and that's plenty. Any more than that and I need to start gripping the wheel more tightly, which limits the effectiveness of force feedback. Very hard to stay relaxed with the torque above 4imo. In addition, the wheel in a drift car is NOT hard to turn. They're not yanking on that thing like an F1 driver, they're throwing it around like it's nothing.

[@JohnSdigi]

2-3Nm is not even remotely close to realistic though.

[@LaidbackMarco]

Wow Kame nice to see you upload another video! The production quality has gone up and you look so healthy glad to see !!

[@smallbutdeadly931]

For your in-game settings, how high did you set your gain? I usually run 25% with my R21 having the FFB strength at 100% in Moza Pithouse and that feels realistic to me

[@RelaxSimmer]

On a CSL DD boost kit I can't run more then 70-80% FFB it's just too much (I'm running on a Clubsport Classic Wheel rim). (Some examples on my videos on the channel)

[@filipivan5125]

So u paid for something u dont use. Why dont u return it ???

[@RelaxSimmer]

@@filipivan5125 I use more ffb when grip racing though. Plus im happy with it, direct drive is better then gear or belt driven stuff and already within the ecosystem so no reason to buy setup anything else.

[@Mr_jz_12]

@@filipivan5125 its better to have "to much' and turn it down, than to not have enough. The csl dd without the boost kit doesn't have enough.

[@AndyVdrifts]

I started with a thrustmaster tspc, loved it, I made my own adapter for a real wheel, went to a drift experience day and did way better than I expected as a result, that made me realise it was worth spending cash on it, so I got the 8nm csl dd, its definitely better I love it, but I was suprised that the pedals made so much difference.

[@bamboo9666]

So 4nm with a small and light wheel will works just fine right?

[@KilIlugh]

Great video! And very true about it being better to save than buying the cheapest option. I recently switched from a g923 to a fanatec DD and it’s so night and day different, I should’ve done it sooner.

[@Benedict00_MankoMuncher]

Which one

[@Bap-wv7ur]

Probably the csl dd, its the best value direct drive wheel rn, 400$ for the wheel and pedals ​@Benedict00

[@Kekmit]

11:38 - 100% facts. I tried racing on almost 30 Nm wheel and I actually needed real racing gloves to keep it managable. It also hurt... a lot.

[@bunnybomb]

Hey buddy, I don't know if you remember me from back in the day, I used to drift with you guys. Appreciate the video boss, this was actually really helpful, I finally decided to get into sim racing since the 240sx is buried in 4 feet of snow lol.

[@sebastianpl4073]

if you are really budget limited then buy a thrustmaster t150/tmx and make a steel bearing mode. Your wheel then will have around 3.5nm

[@iwannawatchyoutube8826]

this is a great video on what you should be choosing, i did start with a logitech g920 and transitioned to irl drifting (not on tracks XD) and noticed where the logitech lacked feedback as mentioned and you really need to rely on visual queues in game and soon will be getting the moza r9 as an upgrade to when im in the country my home address is in since here I only have a fwd 1.0 econobox as a daily while every couple of months i head back to my home country where we daily just about anything you can think of from e21 bmws with 500bhp to LS swapped e32s to 900+bhp e34s :D

[@mega4507]

the production quality is insane!! always great to see new videos keep it up!

[@Odn-ku9jc]

4NM still seems to be a huge diff on a DD compared to a Belt Gear, have the t300 and i could clearly see the diff between yours and mine, DD behave so much better and more natural behavior and i have a feeling that my wheel loses some information during transitions and on bumps, cliffs etc. How does the wheel feel at higher NM? I mean youre sideways and trying to turn the wheel(DD), is it hard or is it light to turn?

[@fidodido9457]

This is actually a pretty good explanation and tutorial! Good job! 👍🏻

[@NovaPog37]

this is a great video! explained perfectly what I've felt with the g920 and later on with my t300rs, just got a used moza r5 and it's miles better, the force feedback isn't much stronger but the details make it so much better

[@MigotRen]

thank you for making this video. Ive been sim driving casually (time attack and freeroaming mostly) for years now after I bought a g27 from my first wage ever and never bothered with another one. because it worked fine as far as I can tell with its 3NM. for normal grip driving i never felt that i needed more finesse and i got used to the "clankyness" of the wheel. of course in never drive real cars as close to the limit so the torge felt adaquite. Ive always felt that its hard for me to control my drifts and always thought im just bad at it but never got really better than OK at it. now i will actually get a dd wheel base to see the differnece myself. or maybe that has some time casue i jsut spend 4k on mods for my actually real rs3 lol

[@DBoone123]

Kame always has the best sim drift videos out there, god bless

[@mrchew5326]

Great video! This is one of the most informative sim racing buying guides I’ve ever seen. Thank you for the great content!

[@KameTrick]

I appreciate that, thanks for taking the time to say so :)

[@lohostege]

Im not much of a drifter, but i do rally, which involves similar movement to drifting with letting the wheel go. Im probably going to get the Fanatec CSL DD, probably starting with the 5nm, eventually upgrading to 8nm

[@wazadan84]

20nm? what cars has 5NM already? I have been drifting cars without power steering for 22 years!! A real car have 2nm

[@LukaszRogowiczYamaortodks]

I also don't understand where people get the feeling that 12 or even 5Nm is realistic. It's not like that at all! After all, even cars without power steering, when they are moving, provide less resistance than the Logitech G29 generates. Maybe people have a problem with the fact that when driving in real life we ​​experience overloads but not during simracing. And that's why they think 10Nm is realistic. I ride at 1.8 / 1.9 Nm and I think this is realistic when it comes to the feeling on the steering wheel itself.

[@Jcksn_Ent]

yo i found out that the new power steering also makes it feel like 2nm but if your throwing it around it feels like 6-8nm never tried without power steering

[@Codbeast101]

The added NM is to compensate for a lack of g-force which gives you over half of your feedback in a real drift car.

[@KartingWithMikaeli]

Radical Sr9 have 30 nm peak force to turn,or at least that’s what suellio Almeida says.

[@brewski470]

You have some of the most helpful and informative videos in the entire sim community, let alone drift sim! I know you’ve done videos in the past on specific mod cars, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on some of the more popular drift car packs out there these days. I personally have been loving the Excite! v2 and DWG 3.0 car packs and I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on them!

[@Driftking6743]

Should i buy the moza r3 or thrustmaster ts-xw for drifting?

[@Danno-xs6jv]

Very informative. All these years I thought it was me (Logitech G29 user)

[@Lead_Foot]

I got started drifting with a G27 and worked my way to getting good enough to do 360 drift entries. If you can drift on a weak gear driven wheel you can drift on anything.

[@zepos]

How long have u been drifting and what's ur progress? I started about 4 days ago and still can't maintain long donuts. I can however drift corners but can't transition into another corner.

[@nyox999]

​@@zeposthats normal (It was similar to me and my frienda atleast) Maybe try practicing bigger circles?

[@DantesGrill]

@@zepos It's kind of hard to give you tips because you don't really say much. What wheel? What game? Is a long donut a wide donut or just for a long time? I used to play Gran Turismo 5 with a G27 and I ranked top 1000 in some drift events back in the days. Could never do that now though, the FFB is too weak I kept spinning out last time I tried.

[@ImperviouslyGaming]

honestly my main issue has always been getting the settings ingame as well as IRL wheel settings dialed to the point It feels realistic and perfect.. I have a ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5 by fanatec I bought when it was new, and I have gotten it to an acceptable setting for "drifting" but then i need to change settings if I wanna grip race cause it feels so off for grip, and then my grip settings feel really off for drifting. Any chance you have the perfect setting combo for the CSW 2.5 for assetto corsa? I mainly just drift but I feel like the ideal settings should be able to work for either or.

[@steveswanproductionstt6355]

A well needed video in the sim realm. Thanks for this video. I just upgraded from the logitech 27 to the logitech dd pro racing wheel. Can't wait to jump in

[@wraith3953]

yeah i use the tmx to drift. i play 720 degrees of rotation and i still have to throw my wheel into the turns, im looking to get a moza r5 soon thogh

[@aphae]

I have an alpha mini and use different force feedback depending on the car pack. Some are heavier, some aren’t. Also the oscillations are a pain. Hate having to lower the FFB just to somewhat remove it

[@realmichaeltian]

Just a question. If I have learned how to drift on a low Nm wheel will I be able to apply my understanding of drifting well on a higher Nm wheel or in a real car? I will say after watching this video, I'm attributing my uneven skill between car packs more to my setup than to my skill (as with many car packs such as DWG, BDC, and Tsujigiri Lights I'm able to drift through feeling out the pedals with FFB turned up well into clipping so that the wheel self centers a little better; I would say 85% of the drift work is done through my pedals at this point). I have a couple examples on my YT page of me interacting with my G920 (although a lot of POV footage are old and not representative of my current skill, I just posted a crappy little POV in shorts from a couple weeks ago).

[@elsnowman123]

it'll take a little while to break the habit of throwing the wheel into the drift, but not too long. your drifting will improve a lot with a 5+nm base

[@realmichaeltian]

@@elsnowman123 yeah I do find myself having to throw the wheel a lot

[@KameTrick]

Great question, and thanks for watching my video! :) I *do* think building skill with a low Nm wheel is still a net positive that will get you further along when you eventually switch up to a stronger sim wheel or a real car. It's a step I'd completely skip if someone had the money to do so, but if you're choosing between sim practice with a G920 and not practicing at all, the G920 is the better option. You may have a couple "less than optimal" tendencies to outgrow through practice over time after you upgrade, but I wouldn't be scared you'll put yourself into some kind of horrible driving habits as a result of your time with the G920. I think people develop a lot of extra techniques and inputs that aren't necessary when they either don't trust the car (which can happen due to low information/weak FFB) or try to drive at too high of a level without building foundational skills first. A lot of times, these are the same techniques that work great at high levels, but they may get overused when something even simpler, like better throttle control and timing, would have done the same thing. You can always find something new when you go back to the basics, even I do :) So long story short, your skills will generally transfer "up" to better products (gear to belt to DD wheels, or sim drifting to real drifting)...personally I find that the opposite is where you run into snags. For example, if you get used to an 8Nm DD wheel, going back to a G920 will feel horrible and you may find that even though you know you can technically "do it" you may never want to spend the time to re-acclimate to that setup once you've had a taste of something better. This is also why it's hard for IRL drifters to get a good sim experience, we lose *so much* "FFB" information when we go from a real car moving across the surface of the earth to a sim cockpit that's sitting still in our room, that even if you get a really solid wheelbase, it's still very foreign and your IRL skills don't transfer very well--not to mention what happens if they try a budget wheel. Cheers!

[@realmichaeltian]

@@KameTrickhaven’t driven for a couple of months now as I just moved to college, but I hope to slide on some snow when I get back home this winter 🤪🤪

[@Grifter_Reacts]

Since I like to play semi-arcade and semi-simulator games like FH5 and Assetto Corsa more than IRacing and any F1 games this video cleared a lot of questions I had about getting a new base. My G27 is getting way too old and I was looking for something to be able to focus more on simply driving around and drifting more than anything else. Since I read a lot of times a DD base motor is somewhat like a speaker and you don't ever want to put the FFB at 100% just like you never put the volume of a speaker at 100% I went from wanting a Moza R9 to Moza R12. Then I saw a comparison between the Moza R12 and Simagic Alpha Mini and the guy said because of the fact Simagic divided the wheel into 262144 instead of 32768 like Moza, the FFB is way smoother and way less janky. Also people noticed the FFB was quiet strong for a 10nm and calculated the Simagic Alpha Mini may be advertised as 10nm but is actually more around 13nm. So I hope a "13nm" running at 70% or 75%, around 9 to 9.75nm should be enough to have a big sport round wheel or big deep dish wheel and still provide enough force to have fun driving around and practicing to drift in games. Next thing would be find how to get turn signal levers and maybe a button box for the buttons lacking from the wheels. Thanks for the video!!!

[@Sideways_Singh]

Using a bigger diameter lightweight wheel like 350mm would help because it gives u leverage to make inputs easily while running higher ffb, so that way u can get the quickness of higher ffb like 12nm and still be able to easily make corrections like a real car. Also people prefer bigger diameter for drifting anyways, it helps u be more accurate and make more precise movements, less chance of a spinout. What diameter wheel are u running?

[@jansandera1664]

13:49 yoo that bicep

[@KingDadBod666]

I just setup my PXN V10 how my real car drives. I mostly just run GT3 cars. I tried drifting once in Assetta Corsa. Worked fine.

[@slidingtoys1924]

I love your guide, but can I ask what diameter steering wheel (outer circumference) that you're using in this setup? Since I read the size can affect how much nm can be felt through the hands. Thanks!

[@Kvant925]

I want something similar to my real car’s resistance. It’s very easy with random bumps and jostles pulling the wheel off to the side if i’m not holding the wheel fully. Newer cars have incredible power steering. My 03 Nissan (first car) didn’t have the electrical power steering I have now, didn’t realize how hard it was to steer it. It was starting to go out when I got a new car and I kept slapping the wheel lock to lock in the new one because it was so light lol

[@faxbest1336]

where did you get your steering wheel, it looks very comfortable!

[@giogamer4825]

Having the Fanatec DD+ (50% in games) on my reinforced Playseat Challenge...it rocks without flex, only my skills have a lot of flex 😅

[@Guest-iv4qo]

As someone who have G920 i wouldn't recommend it, what most reviews won't mention is taht wheel is VERY loud, so if someone is looking for first wheel and don't want to spend on DD go for belt.

[@buttergolem8584]

I guess for mostly ETS2/ATS and occasionally some Forza, AC and BeamNG the 5nm CSL DD from Fantatec or Moza R5 should be enough?

[@SMoss98]

Could you provide a link for the steering wheel you used at 0:40

[@Tuneeeeeeeee]

Think I’ve been to that track 1:12, in New Mexico?

[@kost9lbrik135]

Hi there. Thank's for the proper explanation. Could you share some of the settings you use in AC in order to get better feel in drifting. It appears t hat if I set my wheel FFB for a regular GT3 race cars it doesnt work good for drift, I even made two different setups in ACC and my wheel software. Thanks in advance.

[@BUC2045]

with the logi, and thrustmaster wheels we have to throw the wheel when flicking into corners

[@jockyyang9890]

i dont think you mentioned about peak torque and holding torque. The wheel base you use has a holding torque of 10nm and peak of 20nm(read from the motor data sheet). so I'm not sure if its 10nm peak torque that is enough for drifting or 10nm of holding torque.

[@TrueKivan]

The hardest part in starting drifting as someone who never tried it in real life is figuring out how to setup your hardware to feel proper, after all how would I know? Been bouncing on and off drifting for a while now for that reason. I will try again with your tips here, but damn wish I could just teleport someone like you directly into my cockpit so you could set it up for me so I can stick to learning on a properly done setup. There is a lot of trial and error involved, I might be on Simucube 2 Pro but I'm clueless if I'm doing the right thing.

[@McSmurfy]

I got the thrustmaster T128 for ps5 and I play casually games like Grid Legends, Crew 2/ Motorfest, but I just want this setup and will just watch others with their setup play. I do like the drifting The Crew games and the racing for Grid Legends, but GT Sport is also fun sometimes.

[@Acer1000]

I use moza r5 on ps5 console to play gt7. It’s awesome, it works great but I feel I’m ready for an upgrade. 12nm of torque might be my sweet spot. Thanks

[@KameTrick]

Did you have to get some kind of an adapter for the PS5 to recognize the wheel? IIRC Moza doesn't market it as being compatible with console

[@Acer1000]

@@KameTrick yes. I had to use the rasu1ution 2 adapter. Cost $100 on eBay

[@BuddaDrifts]

Hey kame with another banger ... slide on man❤

[@neonkapawn]

Powerful bases can be worth it if you wanna attach a very heavy wheel on them like a real truck wheel for euro truck for example.

[@Li0nSam]

At this moment i'm little bit struggling with FFB wheels too (in hope that will setup sim and wheel correctly at last), because IRL drifting (rally too) much easier, IRL these oscillations never happen, IRL there is so much ass-sensing of car inertia which greatly helping to control it.

[@dcars806]

Don't forget about Aztek Forte, La Prima, and the 27nm bases they sell! Also if you have a MicroCenter near you, you may be able to find a PXN direct drive wheel no one talks about

[@claytonchandler-h4f]

How do you feel about the Moza r3? It is very appealing for the price, I do plan to move on to real drifting as I’m currently getting a car together

[@QuantumS1ngularity]

DD wheels are the way to go in any form of sim-racing. Whether you do grip or drift races, the information you get from a DD wheel is lightyears ahead of even the best belt and gear driven wheels. There is just no comparison. In grip races it won't necessary improve your times like magic, BUT it will improve consistency. For me personally 16nm is the perfect fit, especially when you start doing Le Mans racing and other forms with big downforce racing, because it compensates for the lack of g-force in the chair.

[@AnekoF90]

I just gave up even learning how to drift because my damn wheel keeps snapping. Even when I'm racing, sometimes I try to countersteer the car, and it snaps to the other side.

[@franckchalut]

great video quality upgrade ! 👍 looks very professionnal. I use the csl dd with 5nm, feals similar to my irl 22 brz with electric steering, would say above 5nm would be great if you want to emulate hydraulic pumps.

[@ArchOfficial]

A typical PS curve will be clipping around 5-6Nm most of the time, so you'd be looking at 4-5Nm midcorner. The catch is that PS is nonlinear, so the ramp is still very high and it feels "tight". PS also won't work with hands off the wheel, effectively speeding up the wheel when letting go. Modded AC can do a PS curve, but it won't do the hands-off stuff. Of course, manual cars usually reach 15-20Nm peaks in transient.

[@sleit0n]

Mabe i miss understand something with higher torque dds but for example, in my experience, there is no way i can drift properly with my moza r9 at 100%. mabe max that i would try to use is 70% for some cars but for sure thats not optimal... usually i use 30-40% with VDC and 900 degrees steering wheel rotation. if i go above 900 then i use 40-45% of torque. So... idk, mabe someone is able to explain what i'm missing. Also i'm not that weak or smth...😅

[@AC-Aliens]

Yeah only the clowns are saying they are drifting with 6nm +

[@sleit0n]

@@AC-Aliens 😅👍

[@capt_nugget]

Another factor you didn’t mention with the gear driven wheels, on my G920 I’ve noticed that the wheel has a decent amount of resistance to my inputs, but only in one direction. Perhaps it’s because of the gear driven system, or it’s just the g920/g29, but when you flick into a drift (a true staple of drifting on a gear driven wheel), it’s much easier to flick the wheel to the right than to the left, something that you wouldn’t even think of being an issue, yet it is. Another fantastic feature of the G920 is that if you flick a little TOO hard, the wheel will decide that it wants to become unaligned, and centers at about 15° left. It will stay like this until you unplug the wheel, which could require a restart of the game, ruining your race or drift session. On top of that, the software is complete garbage, has no useful options other than steering angle, and it uses 20% of my CPU for no reason. That’s why I agree with you that it’s just not worth it to get a gear driven wheel for drifting, even though it’s the cheapest option available. Edit: I would like to mention that it is totally possible (albeit very very difficult, much harder than people make it out to be) to drive at the highest level (VDC and others) with a gear driven wheel, but you won’t be able to keep up with anyone else using a belt or DD wheel. It’s purely a factor of the centering speed that you will need to drive those cars. You can drive them, but you will have to compensate with throttle and brakes, meaning you’ll be outpaced anyways. Although it’s possible, just not feasible, and I’ve yet to see footage of anyone shredding tandems using a g27 or g29 with VDC cars or similar high hp drift cars.

[@eloy559]

I drift with no power steering would 15-18nm be accurate?

[@Dsilveiro]

This video is really good to understand what to upgrade to But personally if you get a good deal I recommend the Logitech G920 if you not sure if you going to like it like me, I got mine for £150 and improve my drifting a lot, I don't have a drift car, but I went to do a drifting experience before I had the wheel and keep spinning, after a 6months of having the wheel went again and almost did the full circuit

[@Drunken_Hamster]

Do they make wheels with at least 1080, if not 1440 degrees of rotation? Not sure I'd like such a low rotation given that most IRL cars I've driven are between the two numbers I gave. Especially once you consider that all of THOSE had normal steering angles of around 35-40 degrees as opposed to drift steering.

[@KameTrick]

Several of the belt drive wheels can do 1080, and mechanically the DD's have no rotation limits, however I think some of that is software limited. Ideally you could set anything between 1 and 9999 degrees...but in order to unlock that, each wheel maker has to program an upper limit into their control software. So it may take some extra investigation, asking the sales teams and Reddit/Discord communities for the wheels about the current max rotation you can set in the software to narrow down which ones will give you the rotation you're looking for.

[@TylerCMilligan]

To his point on waiting to get the better whee. I got a tmx as a birthday present 9 years ago and two months ago could finally drift the pro spec cars in assetto reliably. It took me 9 years to be able to do what would take someone with a better wheel in immensely less time.

[@Eggo1966]

Is that a DIY DD wheel you got on that rig and if so how can I build one

[@gzaos]

I got a TS-XW on use market 3 years ago for 250, I wish to upgrade. But I will have to buy a proper rig to mount a DD and at that point i will closer to the 2k than the 1k for an upgrade. Oh, not to mention the space requirement. At least I know I will be aiming at 10-15 nm wheel base.

[@borislavsergiev6392]

That video was very helpful. Thank you very much 😊

[@S1KRRDreamQuebec]

Me rocking my tmx for the last 4 year (still pretty in shape except the grip) 2nm maybe not good but if i can do it easily can imagine on a 8-12nm

[@MSR_Gilles]

Could you show us your settings from the VRS software?

[@ZagFurn]

Im surprised at the level of detail in all these tracks. I'm new to drifting in the south Texas area and hopefully by end of next year want to see myself on the SpeedSportz track. Unless this is unrealistic ofc. Slowly trying to find my way into groups and guidance as I build my car and continue practicing sim. Do you have advice on wearing gloves using a felt wheel for sim use before getting into the car with that sort of set up or do you think I should practice sim on a hard wheel without gloves? And absolutely love this video. Happy to find you in my recommendations. Subscribed

[@Meccarox]

What about the most realistic pedals/pedal stiffness?