Guitarists CAN'T read music! Here's how to fix it...

[@beneunson]

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[@The0ldboy]

The guitar is an instrument that when you confront it with musical notation, what it returns to you instantly is not precise information as in the case of the piano, but rather it presents you with a paradox of choice and that can reach the human mind to be really uncomfortable when what you expect clarity.

[@ox609]

Classical guitarists entered the chat...

[@leestanford2452]

Don’t even get me started on how lazy and ridiculous guitar pedagogy has become. Just learn to be musically literate.

[@ox609]

​@@leestanford2452I was referring to the fact that classical guitarists do read music, actually they should read, like any other classical musician

[@RoyalMusic24K]

​@@ox609 I just figured that out , I'm self taught 😭

[@Doty6String]

#2 is it. I learned to read on sax a as kid you're constantly reminded of 1 thing to do when you see a note. on a guitar its insane, you can play stuff anywhere. and the notes are all over the place. I can read really well on sax. on my guitar it takes forever.

[@beneunson]

Absolutely, I completely understand!

[@leh3827]

I hate guitar because of that... but I still love it... You can't do everything.

[@TheTylrBllmn]

Boy do I have something for you... ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/11217113

[@KennedyIvy]

For that, tab is highly superior

[@StephenGangi]

Yes. Since a note or triad can be played almost anywhere, the "problem" is, where to play so you can get there in time, AND get to the next note or triad in time. I took classical guitar lessons, and much of it was "how to get there and back" - preparation. A mix of musical notation, tab, hand written info/pics quickly turned my music sheets into a freakin' mess.

[@mattb4494]

one thing not mentioned here is how there's many thing you can do on guitar that don't really fit well on a staff, like bends and micro tonality, pick scrapes and muted notes , issues of phrasing like hammer ons pulloffs and upstroke downstroke stuff. I think the way the notation system has evolved (ie western classical) is great for communicating that style, but not blues (which a lot of electric guitar is rooted in) . TAB has been around for hundreds of years and was used for lute music back in the day, but it is very counterintuitive , its very hard to sight sing a melody written in TAB! So its no better really. Other musicians just have to be a little patient with guitarists thats all. On the other hand give a guitar player a chord sheet and most will strum through it fine, while a lot of classical players will struggle to name the notes of an Ab7#11😁

[@Vasioth]

I think there are a few misconceptions here. The first one is the idea you are saying that you cannot communicate aspects that say, tablature might be able to, like bends, muted notes etc. This actually isn't true at all, you can absolutely show these things with ease with traditional notation. The difference is that many find tablature far easier since they don't have to think about the note they are playing, it's just a number they have to play and mostly without any indication as to its rhythmic value so the guitarist is forced to rely more on their ear and gut instinct. Historically since around the Renaissance era, a form of tab did in fact exist for the lute, but the lutist was expected to actually understand what the numbers represented, and rhythmic durations were indicated. Early Music Sources, a brilliant KZbin channel, goes far more indepth about this. The other issue with what you're saying is about pianists. Many shapes for chord types on the guitar are incredibly transferable. The same is not true for the piano. On the piano, many chords, especially 7ths and their extensions, require very specific fingerings, and some chords are far easier to play than others. Most pianists tend to be classically trained so they deal with fairly simple diatonic triads and 7th chords, and rarely do extensions come into play. In classical music, having a 9th is typically considered a non chord tone that has a tendency and is in the process of resolving to the tonic, and is rarely used for colour sake until the Romantic era. So for many pianists, there might not be much point in learning extensions that a jazz pianist might learn since they will be irrelevant to the type of music they are playing. Is my last point a good one? I think every pianist should be able to play in multiple styles and being able to improvise should be something every musician can do. However, the reality for a classical player is that a) they have to be able to sight read a shit ton of music so sight reading takes precedence over improv, b) they have to be very technically brilliant to play harder repertoire, so technique drills take up a lot of time since they are expected to not make mistakes, c) they have to memorise a shit ton of repertoire, so tons of time goes into memorising very long pieces of music like piano sonatas and concertos, many lasting anywhere between 10-40 minutes a piece. Hope that clarifies some things.

[@Meatball996]

Pick scrapes can be notated, lots of scores, even older more traditional ones, will literally have a piece of text saying what to do if it can't be notated traditionally. Sometimes they may make an additional symbol and put before the start of the piece what it means.Muted notes can be expressed by using an X instead of a dot but keeping everything else the same, it's common in fact. Microtones exist on standard notation too, and you can notate bends and quater bends, this has been extremely common since it was first used for brass players in Jazz. For hammerons and pulloffs you can just use a legato line as guitarists generally call playing with one hand as guitar. Upstrokes and downstrokes can't really be notated, but if it's a really fast line, you can use where the accents are and your best judgement to determine where they should be. For instance, an accent would most likely be played with a downpick and the others don't really matter as much, just alternate pick as much as you'd like.

[@scottwalthour558]

​@@Meatball996I have seen upstrokes and downstrokes notated. It's an arrow pointing up or down situated right next to the chord or note played.

[@Meatball996]

@@scottwalthour558 thanks. So I guess everything can be notated then

[@kwimms]

Writing down music is for people who can't really play well. They only mimic other's music. MUSIC comes from the heart, not notes. Also, notes are mildly useful for piano players... guitar is WAY MORE expressive and written music can never capture this...

[@gscgold]

As a teen I studied classic from the guitar instructor at a University here on the west coast after his day he taught private lessons..I studied under him for 3 years in that time I became almost fluent in sight reading.. I was dedicated to that more than anything in my life. It is the one skill that I lost after life took me a different direction that I have always regretted the most. It takes a lot of work to be able to sit down and sight read and play it as it's written like you have played it before, at least on classical guitar.

[@heartycoffee4754]

sight reading classical guitar in my expierience has been harder than reading just the single not melodies that you would find in like a parker omni book for example

[@andreasjonsson5823]

Great discussion! I have often found tab to be harder for me to read than regular notation!

[@beneunson]

I have heard a few people say the same thing!

[@davidkeller6156]

I much prefer written notes. It does help some when tab is available to check fingering on difficult parts.

[@athanasiuscontra000]

Same here

[@tweed0929]

Said no one. Never.

[@redpillpusher]

@@tweed0929😂 I find this easier to believe

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

Sight reading divides into two challenges - reading rhythms and reading pitches. Both rhythms and pitches come in constantly changing sequences, so just like when you read words in a book, you read measure by measure, not note by note. Both rhythm and pitch comes in phrases, so you need to be able to see a measure's worth of notes and play them as a group, just like you read a few words at a time on a page. You can always sing rhythms on one note, so you don't need your guiltar for that.

[@joeheesakkers]

Sight reading generally refers to being able to play music on an instrument while sight reading, so it involves much more than just being able to mentally interpret the pitch and rhythm.

[@MarkJKLawrence]

#2 is tricky. Also, not only can we play in position across different strings, but we can also play the same line up a single string. Also, the inconsistency in tuning does make the logic of the fretboard (and building ones relationship with seeing intervals) difficult to master.

[@1man1guitarletsgo]

I play by ear, and am essentially self-taught. I read the fretboard, visualising shapes and patterns. While this is great for being able to jam in virtually any musical situation, my inability to read either sheet music or tab means that I could never work with a band where these were required. My usual method of learning and playing songs is to have lyric and chord sheets in front of me, reading them as I go. In a live situation, this can look quite convincing, so some people might think I'm actually reading sheet music! If I could have my time again, I'd learn to read music, because I'm pretty sure this would have made me a better player, and opened up more opportunities.

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for sharing!

[@Dawg93]

Learning to read tab takes all of ten minutes

[@1man1guitarletsgo]

@@Dawg93 Yes, but being bothered to learn tab (which I'm not) is the first part of the journey. It might have been more accurate to say that I can't read music, and I can't be bothered to read tab, even though I do understand it at a basic level. Another point about tab: when I _have_ used it to help learn songs, the tabs have usually been wrong, because they're written by well-meaning amateurs who've guessed when they couldn't understand a chord or phrase.

[@hankevans7890]

The chances of you joining a rock band that requires sight reading are zero. Almost all rock musicians learn by ear and can’t read music.

[@1man1guitarletsgo]

@@hankevans7890 Well, yes, that's in line with what I said in my original post; albeit using fewer words and going into less detail.

[@Slarti2]

I've been trying to learn to read music for four decades. I've had piano lessons, guitar lessons, bass lessons. I never developed any speed in reading music. Tab is different. I can play something almost straight away. As you say I just need to work out the finger positions and I've got it. Having a good music ear helps. I think I may have a dyslexic eye problem with sight reading sheet music. I'm never going to get it and I've tried for so many years. Tab is the only answer for me.

[@gitarmats]

I think the big underlying reason is that it's just not how guitarists are usually taught to play in the beginning, unless you are specifically learning classical. A lot of us find ourselves wanting to work on reading when we get to music school after already having played (and learned) a certain way for many years. So we end up starting a new skill from scratch, in addition to also having to balance it with our other practice topics. It's rare that I need to sight read something on the spot, but is very often beneficial to have at least some ability in this area so you can understand what is happening on the page. I still have a lot of improvement to do on my reading though!

[@beneunson]

I think you're absolutely right, Mats - it's not typically included in the earliest stages of guitar education. When I learned piano as a child, the way notes on the piano keyboard correspond with music notation was taught on day one!

[@inconsolablegraphite2126]

Your video hits a sore spot with me. I’ve been playing the guitar since 1975 and in the 80s studied classical guitar to grade VIII. Right from the beginning I recognised the value of sight-reading. I think it’s a vital skill. Once you have a piece ‘as written’ you can then improvise on it if that's your thing and you can do it in real time. I also play keyboard but not as well as the guitar. Improvisation I find trivially easy. Frustratingly, despite going on to gain a diploma in music theory, which I have no trouble in understanding, I still cannot read notation fluently, so it takes me months to learn anything. There seems to be some kind of cognitive deficit which stops any meaningful progress. Someone else has commented below about a similarity to the difficulty in performing basic arithmetic for some which I’m also troubled with. I’m inclined to agree, I’ve asked a few highly competent musicians exactly ‘what’ they are doing when sight reading, but it seems immune to any kind of introspection in the same way as asking someone what they are doing when reading standard text, so they can never give a sensible answer. Once you can do it, it’s almost impossible to say ‘how’. It could be something I’ll just never be able to do, but find most of the proposed solutions on KZbin or elsewhere to be pretty unhelpful even if well-intentioned. With respect, suggesting whizzing through Bach partitas illustrates the gap in understanding.

[@gadget348]

I learn by ear, the best way I can describe my attempts a sight reading years ago is that my ears shut my eyes off when the music starts. I even gave up on tab because after baby stepping a tune into my fingers I often found that I needed to unlearn mistakes in the tab which I could only here properly after I'd gotten up to speed. It should also be remembered that many sight readers would give their eye teeth to be able learn a tune by ear.

[@jonnyrace6900]

Have you tried working through a method like Hal Leonard or Bill Leavitt?

[@Cavie1974]

I was recently recruited to play in the pit for a school production. The music required me to play parts that were either unison or harmonies to string parts. it took some real work on my part to transfer my reading which is "ok" to the fretboard. I plan on spending a lot more time working on this.

[@paulbonghez7841]

I've been recently reading through Pat Metheny's Warmup Exercises For Guitar and I find it excellent for developing switching positions on the fly, as he tends to play all over the fretboard and thus forcing you to adapt ASAP. Great stuff!

[@kwimms]

Great! Maybe if you keep practising, you'll sound like someone mimicking Pat's playing in about ten years... we can't wait.

[@beneunson]

That's a great book! I have it as well

[@paulbonghez7841]

That's not the point of practising nor the scope of the book @@kwimms

[@davidmiller4078]

During the 1960 s when the guitar became popular and it was easy to buy guitars with no back up tuition avalable Music publishers also put out easy to play guitar songs for Beatles tune for example Also the RnB boom had been under way and feeling was considered more important than reading notation I know because i was that guitarist in 1967 who taught myself RnB by ear but who gradually worked back wards into understanding piano charts with the help of some of the fellow nerd musicians i bumped into Fourtunatly i love the musicals of Fred Astaire Gene Kelly and Donald OConnor who used songs by Irving Berlin G Gerswin and the incredible Cole Porter These songs push the self taught Guitarist into being hungry to learn and after a while your ear hears changes and patterns So yes i agree with you there is so much to learn and enjoy Clasdical like Bach Flamenco Fusion style as epitomied by John Mclaughlin difficult to pick up by ear if onr hasnt at least some basic cord theory under your belt ? I liked yor altered scale vid by the way i love Antonio Carlos Jobims songs and im currently enjoying learning some of Charlie Parkers Heads wow good to have hobbies lol

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for sharing!

[@hankevans7890]

Most of the best and most revered guitarists in rock, blues and metal can’t read sheet music. I would bet that 99% of non classical guitarists don’t bother with sheet music. I teach guitar for a living and if I made my students learn the Hal Leonard method on day one, half would quit out of boredom. I save sight reading for much later in their guitar education.

[@machitect]

That’s what happened to me when I started at 11 yrs old. I immediately tried to avoid my teacher who would come to our house to teach us 4 kids. Eventually I asked my brothers to teach me Jimi Hendrix and Metallica and what not. I can play my classical pieces no problem with form and stuff,but with sight reading, now I wish I paid more attention. Although I have to say at 11 sheet music IS incredibly boring.

[@robertYTB78g]

I had the idea of sight reading Classical guitar live for 10-15 years, mostly trying to get past the fact that once I had mastered a piece I became tired of it. How nice I thought, to be able to open a book of sheet music and play my way through it. After many years of hard practice I just couldn't get past the fact that only the memorised pieces had any real expression, since the sight read pieces couldn't make it, for the simple reason I wasn't fast enough at reading, or at least the technicality was getting in the way. Fast forward to learning to read music on the piano for retirement - no such problem, the dream is coming true. The simplicity of reading the piano compared to the guitar has made everything so much easier. After all the piano really only has one simple pattern of keys which repeats all the way down the keyboard like you were playing just one guitar string! Those repeated notes on the guitar were a killer for me. NB I could read single line melodies with expression on a guitar, and still can, eg to a backing or simple duets - highly recommended and great fun. But reading the majority of classical pieces where the guitar plays chords and melody, for me, Guitar no, piano yes.

[@beneunson]

Thanks for sharing!

[@christianboddum8783]

I remember a discussion about reading music, and there was a point that you encounter written language Everywhere and subconsciously your reading is trained all the time, however with music you have to take out your sheet music to train your reading. If written music was to be found everywhere our reading would be much better. Just a thought.

[@ronb3406]

I used tab for classical to start but switched to reading music. Standard notation has more information and tells you where to play on fretboard frequently. I’m not a sight reader, but I’ve gotten better at reading through and getting fingering fairly quickly. It’s like any skill-you have to work at it. My limitations technically slow me down more than reading.

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for sharing!

[@MrMjp58]

An excellent video Ben. In my teaching (mostly of beginners), I’ve started combining tab with note values, rests etc. I put in the number and add the tails, dots etc, beneath or above. It works rather well and I don’t understand why it isn’t done more often. Introducing standard notation risks putting off all but the most dedicated. I played for several years before attempting to read/sight read. When eventually I started trying, it took a long time and a lot of effort. It was worth it for me. Some personal and experiential observations: Reading classical guitar style material is easier than rock, jazz and single note stuff. Reading on other instruments (piano, violin) is far more straightforward. Playing from notation (even of humdrum music) can be a relaxing, meditative activity. One can achieve a certain competence in some aspects of reading, whilst still really struggling with others. Accepting one’s overall academic ability, or lack of, is part of the process. Reading at any level is better than not trying at all. Music theory is a different aspect altogether.

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for sharing your insight!

[@JohnA000]

having studied classical guitar if I see middle C on the staff I usually go to the C on the 3rd fret of the A string not on the B string as you illustrated even though that may be the correct pitch. As far as tab goes, I use it as a supplement to standard notation as you suggest. I really should put effort into it, ty for the tips.

[@christianboddum8783]

I've never got past simple etudes but I still practice reading for the challenge and satisfaction, persistence pays off...

[@Marklar3]

As a pianist who plays some guitar, I think the biggest hurdle for guitarists is just lack of exposure to new sheet music. I was once a subpar sight reader. Even though I spent hours every day staring at music, I was rarely reading something that I hadn't seen before. This ties in with your 3rd point, because a lot of the reason I didn't read new music was how it reminded me of the shame of not being good at it. It's easy to learn to read music, but sight reading even simple music skill takes years of practice, so it's okay to not be good at it. Bach partitas might not be a the best option for beginning readers though. There's plenty of other free music on IMSLP to explore. I'd sooner recommend reading 1 or 2 lines at a time from Bach's chorales, or maybe reading the melody line of Mozart's piano sonatas.

[@beneunson]

Great insight, and great suggestions! IMSLP is a great resource!

[@kwimms]

How long did it take you to learn how to walk? Maybe if you start now, you can learn to read music before your brain stops working entirely.

[@athanasiuscontra000]

In my boomer guitar world of the 1960s, the primary role models I heard about were Eric Clapton, Joe Walsh, Paul McCartney, and Phil Keaggy. They were all crystal clear that they Did Not Read. So it was not just a legend. It was a fact of “how the big kids in school” actually did what we wanted to do.

[@wolfganghuber8103]

Of course, it can also be applied to other things to a certain extent. From driving a car to skiing to more complex processes. For me there is an essential question. And I ask experienced notists because the others can't answer them. So when a notist who can sight-read finally plays completely “freely” in a band context and has to react improvisingly to the smallest deviations of his musicians (also a form of perfection) Is he still thinking about notation or not? Or does he then visualize the notation for the sound or chord in his mind's eye. Or does he only have an overview of the key points? Another question is the topic of pulling the tones, distorting the tones and general acrobatics that can still be expressed in notation. Because then he would have to think of a distorted notation image in his head at the same time in order not to say paint along. That doesn't happen on the piano.

[@erik9817]

My biggest issue with learning sight reading is that I question myself so much (whether I played the right note). Thanks for the violin notation tips, I'll consider buying violin sheet music.

[@jrpipik]

The biggest reason is: guitarists usually don't have to be able to read music. For the most part, a musician in a pop-rock band can get away with being able to follow a chord chart, and many don't even need that. Session musicians may need to read music, but a more valuable skill is being able to come up with a part on your own (as well as developing a good tone). Jazz and classical musicians on any instrument need to be able to read music, of course. But for your general folk, pop, or rock musician, reading music is mostly unnecessary.

[@Heheha329]

Are you supposed to guess what octave to play each note at cause there isnt enough range on the notation sheet even if you use 2.Trying to write down somethings i have made just to see how and its impossible.I thought wbout moving the cleff around when i have to put thats just gonna be a headache to read.

[@thegeeeeeeeeee]

The hardest part for me is reading music not arranged for guitar. Some voicings are impossible or not practical. Even complex music arranged for guitar can be hard to play in the correct positions when sight reading. I love tab, charts and using my ear! 🎸 you are a beast player btw. I think you’re one of the best players alive. I wish you continued success!

[@bobrich1950]

While i share your logic about this as a guitarist myself, i've often wondered why it is string players(violin, cello, etc.) don't seem to share our anxieties and frustrations about this? Are we just inferior as musicians?? I think some of it can be attributed to how we learn the intrument from the time we first pick it up to study. That "rock star" mentallity i think contributes to this to some extent. Also, the guitar typically is made to "look" so easy to play. When we all know it simply isn't. Perhaps a lack of a work ethic to be committed to mastering reading notation contributes as well. And while i can "read" big band charts, my site reading pales by comparison to that of any good horn players. Just some random thoughts here. Thanks for listening.

[@beneunson]

Good question! I'll have to ask some violinists/cellists... would be interesting to know

[@bobrich1950]

@@beneunson Yes! I would be very interested to hear their take on this as well. Thanks !!

[@Zarunias]

I think it's just practice and habits. I'm a cellist and from the day I've started to learn the instrument I also learned to read sheet music. Of course it began with empty strings, but I had the sheet music in front of me. For cello there simply isn't any alternative. For guitar you can either use tabs, or chord symbols if you just want to sing some songs. I've never seen a beginner on the guitar who uses classical notation. Also: Classical string instruments only have 4 strings. I think this helps a lot (although there surely are a lot of gambists out there who seem to manage it).

[@נדבישרהוכמן]

I can read sheet music ok in both bass and treble clefs but my sight reading sucks because Iv never been in a situation where sightreading is needed so I just took my time and did it right. No regrets yet.

[@rossthrockmorton2116]

The biggest thing I’m still unsure about is what position to play in. Because as mentioned, you can play any note in multiple places on the guitar, whereas with piano each note on the staff has a dedicated place on the keyboard. How would you guys define a position on guitar?

[@quailstudios]

First time I have watched one of your videos.

[@beneunson]

Thanks for watching!

[@Pix3lB]

I want to learn a violin next so Ill have to learn sheet music. This video is helpful

[@beneunson]

Thanks for watching!

[@jacksonvalad8012]

Reading music is not that hard gents. I tell everyone I try to teach that reading sheet music is very similar to a coordinate plane. Your X axis is time, meaning each note value is a specific instance in time divided up into certain intervals read left to right, and your y axis is a given pitch value. Thats it!

[@whitejester]

Just how do I know which note is played on which string. Give me the basics for that and I’ll be efficient.

[@Bart91127]

Accurate insights,superb English accent..not utterly American,neither British..couldn't pinpoint ur origins Sounds like an american,RP ,highly educated scholar..kudos maestro! Greetings from Havana.

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for watching!

[@josdurkstraful]

Quick tip: if you are familiar with the fingerings of the major scale it will be no problem to read parts with many accidentals: if you know the key it is in it's just as easy to play in C# (7 sharps) as it is to read in C (no accidentals). That's the BIG advantage of the guitar as opposed to piano! All normal western music is based on scales, so know your scale fingerings in and out and you're already half way there. What about minor scales then? They are just modes of the major scale so all fingering patterns will be the same, only the root will change (for example: a minor = Cmajor).

[@beneunson]

Thanks for sharing!

[@greevar]

The first instrument I learned to play was a trumpet, which means that standard notation was what I learned first. That said, tab is better for guitar. It's especially true if you're using Guitar Pro style tablature. Every number on the tab includes the same time notation that standard notation uses.

[@beneunson]

Great points, thanks!

[@tsot9837]

I learned to play classical guitar in college. We didn’t use tabs. Notation included fingerings and strings so you knew where to play the notes. It seems now most guitar music is tabbed, but with programs like Guitar Pro. You have a choice to have tablature, notation or both. I prefer notation because tabs don’t always have a defined rhythm. I like to learn by ear, but I need help with the more complex music.

[@SorooshMhs]

The problem with guitar is not only that it has 6 strings (each being able to produce 20-24 pitches, with lots of overlap), but also the fact that guitar is a polyphonic instrument, played polyphonically a lot of the time. Figuring out single note lines from sheet music on guitar might not be too difficult, but doing that for 6 strings at the same time (playing polyphonic lines, that is) is what turns into a nightmare. Many instruments don’t have this issue. If we take something like the clarinet or the human voice, for example, it can only play monophonically, one note at a time. That makes it fairly easy to sight read if you’re practiced enough. I believe orchestral strings don’t have this issue either. They can play chords but most of the time they don’t. And on instruments like piano/keyboards or harp, they are played polyphonically a lot of the time, but unlike the guitar, every pitch can br played in exactly one place. Also, there’s the whole world of alternative guitar tunings. Where basically all of your sheet music knowledge goes out the window. The instruments i mentioned above obviously don’t have this issue

[@beneunson]

Great points! Thanks for watching

[@cfrost87]

I can read the treble staff for singing or piano, but I'm learning to play the violin and that is a whole other story. Learning where the notes are on the fingerboard of a violin is different.

[@theguitarnoobph]

Am a guitar player but just started learning sight reading on bass guitar. So bass clef. Hahah. The book is by Jeff Berlin. Thanks for this video. On point.

[@6stringstorulethemall967]

Its funny that you mentioned Violin pieces for reading cause when growing up my local library only had violin sheet music so thats what I used to learn to read

[@Eidosgod]

I believe is a matter of constant use. When in back in college I learned to sight read in months. 3 to 6. However I cannot do it now because I dont use it. A flutist and a violinist use it every time because they mostly play in symphonic orchestras. Also composers uses it too.

[@partimentoguitar]

#2 is probably the most crucial. As a classical guitarist, I’m constantly reading new music. Because lots of musical patterns come up all the time, sight reading a lot of music reinforces how the left hand fingering goes. So, even though there’s lots of ‘possible’ solutions, I’ve engrained what the most probable solution is. It doesn’t fix the problem, and really complicated counterpoint throws a wrench in it a bit, but I can sight read most classical pieces at sight now - even pretty hard stuff.

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for sharing your insight!

[@grzegorzklicki8983]

Yes, for guitarist scores don't have a one way to playing; hence this one the the same scores writing can be play on guitar neck on harder / easier manner , can be playing in differnt sound's color etc... Using scores on guitar is more challange compare to many others instruments. But the most challange issue in this subject is rythm interpretation... We must remember that in the scores there is not only sound's writing, but also the rythm... Try to play any piece of music without heard it before - you will know what I'm talking about.

[@anthonythelopez]

I definitely had that psychological problem. I consider my self a decent enough reader. I can read through most real books tunes. But I couldn't get into reading because of pacing. I try to grow my ready by seeing how long it takes me to read. Also reading jianpu or scale degree notes helped me read more intervallicaly or by scale degree instead of one note at a time.

[@beneunson]

Thanks for sharing!

[@erictripton]

Playing rock music, it is more about the sound, yes the notes and all, but nothing was written down, or wasn't available. And if I did sift through it as a teenager, I would always find discrepancies. So it was headphones on, and listen. Especially in a rock band, NO ONE I got with would throw sheet music down of a Black Sabbath tune we were about to tackle. So genre has all to do with where it's more apt to be applicable... Of course you know this, Ben Sight reading is difficult and requires lots of discipline.. but was no point when everyone just played by ear.

[@beneunson]

I think a lot of it does come down to genre. Thanks for sharing this, Eric!

[@peterhans1652]

I'm a professional guitarist (went to music collage) in rock, pop and jazz music and honestly my sight reading is shit. But it's funny how far I've made it without it. I'm depending on my hearing 100% wich sometimes comes in handy, because I just play back what I've heard to the point that it's faster to hear a melody once than to read it. Also I play of of lead sheets most of the time and that's something I would say I'm pretty good and fast at. But.... I've also encountered many situations in which sight reading would have been very helpful like jazz sessions or playing from a musical score. And so I've started my journey to become good at sight reading because I hope it also enhances my knowlage of the guitar. Also I cannot justify to call myself a professional musician any longer without this essential ability. For anyone starting out to play rock or pop music you should probably focus on other things first in my opinion.

[@beneunson]

Thanks for sharing!

[@bassyey]

I have the same level as you, as long it's a regular time measure, quarter and eighth notes are no problem. Maybe I'm good at swing because it's easily recognizable on a music sheet, if written deliberately. Another way to improve your reading is to transcribe and write! I cover songs and transcribe every song I learn myself. In 30 minutes, you'll have staff memorized.

[@Felipe..Vieira]

standard notation is meant for classical guitars, where there is only 2 unisons to pick from either way, i think a person can get away with tabs and chord charts if he wants to be in a contemporary band, working with other musicians that will do the job on the rhythm and melodies, and in most cases, neither of the others in the band read sheet aswell, but if a guitarist wants to be a composer and compose all the parts by himself, standard notation is by far the best composing tool in contemporary music, each musician responsible for a section is also responsible for writing their own parts, like a drummer does his percussion, the vocalist do the melody etc, unlike classical music where musicians will sight read and reproduce what the composer wrote for them

[@beneunson]

Thanks for sharing your insight!

[@znmaf]

Also if a player is used to looking at fingers when they started ,then sight reading involves learning not to look at fingers ( fretboard)

[@paulgibby6932]

I noticed when playing guitar with a friend that when he and I were reading, he played an octave higher than what was written. (Similar to your point Problem #2 but also involving the ear) The thing about Problem#3 (tab) is that it can often be helpful to encode which neck position to use (fingering), but sometimes (often) I find transcriptions have crazy fingerings that are unlikely the original artist used. So it's no bible.

[@Mtaalas]

Unless they're graduates from music school. In music school you HAVE TO learn to read, no matter your instrument. And that is one edge that schooled musicians have over self taught. If you went to music school and didn't learn to read, they failed you.

[@tonywallens217]

The main issue is the lack of tactile distinctiveness to each frett/string combo. And the other is visually there is not much logic to the note layout. Its position based.

[@RobertWGreaves]

I started out on a coronet in the fourth grade. Within a week of learning how to blow through the mouthpiece and play with the valves I learned what the cornet could do. I went to lessons at the elementary school where several of us were learning to play the cornet at the same time. My problem was that, the moment I heard the music piece played correctly, I already knew how to play it. And so the sheet music meant nothing to me. I played the coronet for 2 years in the school band. I played in the school concerts and knew my parts, I even performed solos at assemblies with the sheet music in front of me which I actually ignored. There were times when my music teacher suspected what I was doing, but he never knew for sure and I never confessed. In high school I switched to the saxophone. The same thing happened. As soon as I became familiar with the saxophone and knew what I was supposed to play, I could simply play it by ear. I played the saxophone for another year in the high school concert band but never learned how to read music. The best I could do was every good boy does fine and FACE and wait until I heard someone else play it correctly. That was when I switched to the guitar. Everything I played on guitar I played by ear. When I was in high school, my sister started taking piano lessons. My parents bought a piano, and I could hear my sister with her teacher struggling with her lessons. I got into the bad habit of after my sister was done practicing her lessons, I would then go to the piano and play her music lessons without any of the sheet music, all without practicing. It’s so discouraged my sister that my parents forbad me to touch the piano. After a few years, my sister quit the piano, and my parents allowed me to play the piano. So the first thing I taught myself to play was Bridge over Troubled Waters. I am now 72 and retired. I’ve worked as a recording session musician and a producer. I also taught sound engineering at a local college for 15 years. There were several times when I had to write out the music I was producing for various other musicians. So I bought Finale and kept it up to date. At first I was doing a lot of the every good boy does fine thing. I also had to tap a pencil on the table to decide what value of note I needed. It took me quite a while to write out the music. But I finally got to where I could write out the sheet music and other musicians could read it and play exactly what I intended. With MIDI it was even easier for me to play my MIDI controller to the click track and then just print the resulting staff view. Today I can write the sheet music I need to, but I still cannot read it and play guitar without all kinds of stoping and thinking. I bought a few scores for classical guitar. And it was still the same problem. As soon as I knew what I was supposed to play, I just played it. So at 72, I have decided it is not worth trying to learn to read sheet music. And in case you were wondering I am no faster trying to read TAB either. I use it just to help with difficult passages like learning Cliffs of Dover, but once I learn the piece, I just play it from memory. Seeing the sheet music can help me with the rhythm, but I just ignore where the notes are on the staff.

[@beneunson]

Fantastic insight, thanks for sharing!

[@rossthemusicandguitarteacher]

I don't regret being a good sight reader and it is even more powerful if you have strong theory fundamentals

[@joeblankenship377]

I play saxophone and guitar. I can read just fine when I play saxophone, but guitar is tough. I'm self-taught on guitar so I mostly learned by ear and tablature. When I try to read sheet music and play guitar, it's always a struggle. Too much in the habit of looking at the fretboard.

[@cironicholas526]

My son is 13 and autistic. He's made no progress in math since he was 5 and still has to use his fingers to do basic addition and subtraction... Watching this always reminds me of my struggles to learn to read music. I've tried for 30 years and still have to track E-G-B-D-F with my finger for every note and if I have to read the note and rhythm at the same time I just freeze. It all just looks like a mess of white and black. I also failed my Mandarin class because I couldn't learn to read the characters. One thing that always worked against me was having a very developed ear. If I ever heard a song before seeing the sheet music, there's no chance my brain will let me read--i just go straight to playing by ear.

[@beneunson]

Thank you so much for sharing! For many years, I found it very difficult to read because I had a very strong ear - I can completely understand!

[@PeterFrayne-o4n]

I found reading music on classical guitar is easier than electric. You can quickly get an actual tune together with thumb for bass and a couple of fingers for harmony and melody and progress is more visible and audible.

[@beneunson]

Great insight! Thanks for sharing

[@MarkFromHawaii]

Great video to inspire me Ben. Beat subdivision is my kryptonite. What helps me is to listen to a recording and then transcribe it. I’ve found Musescore to be a great tool for notation and learning. Hopefully if I can discipline myself to transcribe a bit every day, it’ll rub off on me and help with my sight reading.

[@beneunson]

Beat subdivision is a great thing to be aware of when reading! Transcribing every day is a great idea!

[@colonelgdr]

I play more bass but I think this applies to guitar just as well: see where the music is going, you know that if the music calls for a scale run to the upper register, that you wouldn't play the beginning of it in say open position only to then skip 12 frets to the rest of the neck. On bass it's easier to make that call but I think it applies

[@beneunson]

Thanks for sharing this!

[@CentrifugalSatzClock]

If the world all listened to my compositions and watched me play you'd be making videos titled "Why are guitarists so good at sight reading?"! I've always LOVED reading music on the guitar. The instrument makes simple things hard but that's no impediment! Know your notes by heart all over the fret-board. It really helps in hundreds of ways and settings. Great video!

[@beneunson]

Absolutely, thanks for watching!!

[@clydespace411]

The heavy lifting time investment to start with is learning all the notes on the neck. It pays dividends in so many ways. Once you have that, tab is actually awkward to me (I'm thinking NOTES and tab is numbers--and adds confusion with intervals, IMO). I've seen real players call out tab numbers instead of notes. Too bad the tab can't add that detail like 3 on the e string as "3G". For that reason I think tab stalls peoples process of learning the notes on the neck. Of course you can learn that at the same time as sight reading, but when working out where to play something that is possible up to speed again knowing the neck is needed. I find even if not sight reading--- using standard notation and the staff really opens up lots of theory ideas. Triads and harmonizing scales visually pops on the staff. Voice leading you can see on the staff. And another thing you miss with tab is the time element. When its just a song in a guitar tab you already know it, you already know it more or less. But if you are trying to write down you own compositions, its easy to forget your own timing and rhythm and phrasing. I guess what I'm getting at is, there's a value to learning the staff and standard notation, even if you are a not planning on every professionally sight reading. It can be a document you pull up to relearn your own or other stuff, and open up learning something from a piece beyond just "knowing how to play it"

[@haraldkoll]

Sight reading standard notation on guitar will work, as long as you're asked to play generic parts that do not actually make use of the possibilities that make the guitar such a great and versatile instrument. That's a caveat that is sorely missing from the video. As soon as you're asked to play a solo piece for guitar that actually does use these possibilities (so having been written by an experienced guitarist) quite frankly, forget it, no matter how good you are. If you are given standard notation (without extensive fingerings) for Jerry's Breakdown there's no way you'll play it as the composer intended, sightreading. And that's in standard tuning. How about all the many different open and alternative tunings? There;s an obstinato pattern in a tune by Focus, essentialy ABCE in quarter notes. On the guitar there are somewhere around a 1000 different fingerings for that (only standard tuning, no bends), of which at least over 20 are actually playable within the context. They all sound subtly different. I'm not against standard notation, unfortunately the guitar and standard notations are simply put, not a great combination. Without extensive fingerings, if it really is written for the guitar, standard notation alone doesn't cut the cake. Nevertheless, if you're into jazz or classical guitar, learn it. Otherwise, in most cases, there's not much point for guitarists. One more thing that's missing is the difference in actually reading standard notation (which means that without your instrument you know what the music will sound like) or being able to translate dots on paper to fingers on the neck.

Well, me as a classical guitarrist, it has never been an issue to me hehe

[@beneunson]

Glad to hear it, I've noticed that classical guitarists are usually great readers! 😀 Thanks for watching!

[@billyvitale8994]

I can't read..or read like a first grader at best. I realize how important this really is if you want to consider yourself a musician. It is not easy..it takes a lot of focus and diligence. Antd to me thats the key reason guitar players don't learn to read.. it's easier to learn the mechanics..and already that is hard enough...you end up memorizing peices intead of reading. I took clasical lessons early on I ended up memorizing the music..I was more interested in playing than being able to read on the fly. There are many benefits to being able to read but even more in being able to comprehend what you are reading...even if you are a bad reader you can still learn to analize and understand music..which is also or prlerhaps even more important than being able to site read on the fly.

[@beneunson]

Absolutely, thanks for sharing!

[@fartwrangler]

Classical guitarists are among the best sight readers I know. Your second reason is, indeed, a serious consideration for the guitarist. I present this to my students as both an challenge, and an asset -- you have multiple options for getting the sound you want. This issue, by the way, is not exclusive to the guitar. There are at least four different fingerings for playing a 1st line Eb on clarinet, for example. Yet most clarinetists learn to read notation without major problems. As regards tab, that is part of the myth -- that learning tab is easier than learning notation. It isn't, really. I read both; it took about the same amount effort to learn each. Tab has its place -- it shows you specifically where to play a passage (although you give up your options for that convenience). But tab is crappy for showing complex rhythms -- standard notation is much better for that. Guitar is more of a "pop" instrument than many others, and you don't necessarily need notation or theory to play in a pop setting -- say, strumming chords for people singing at a party. For that matter there are plenty of pop keyboardists who never learn to read, as well. But I think your first reason is probably the main reason -- the myth. If you tell someone over and over that they can't do something, eventually they'll start to believe you. But learning notation is not that difficult. Really.

[@beneunson]

Great insights, thank you for sharing! I think the "myth" really is a big problem!

[@brunofigueiredo6697]

Well you have to be able to read rythm and understand how melody and chords go together (melody and harmony) plus knowledge of fretboard logic (caged is great) to map your fingerings. Reading just one voice is not hard, the problem is reading polyphony, several voices at once or reading a dense chord. Eletric players don't play polyphony so they can't play or even read it slowly.

[@beneunson]

You're right - many electric players don't play or read polyphony. Thanks for watching!

[@ernestdenov3599]

Guilty as charged! I'm self-taught and can read chord symbols and rhythmic figures, but I can't read notes except in slow motion and rubato. I've still managed to make a living playing guitar for 45 years. Now I'm not saying anybody shouldn't learn to read music; I sometimes wish I could. I have developed a good ear and good memorization skills and that has gotten me by. I once played the entire album of Chick Corea's "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy" with a 4 piece band and some friends in the audience were shocked that I memorized the whole thing while the other 3 guys were reading it. Well, that's how I roll... not that I wasn't swamped with homework; it was some of the most difficult music I ever had to play! The biggest down side to not being able to read is that I can't play Broadway musicals. I actually could if I had a week or two to memorize a full show, but sometimes the shows are brand new and have never played before. It's not that I love Broadway musicals (I don't), but I could've made a whole lot more $$$ if I could sightread. I'm an old dog that can't (or won't) learn new tricks, especially now that I'm a senior citizen. But if you're on the fence about it; I think you should learn to read music!

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for sharing your insight!

[@ernestdenov3599]

@@beneunson Well I told a small lie about being self taught; I did take lessons when I was 10, but he was a bad teacher and I was a bad student. His "method" was that he'd give me some lead sheets of standards like "The Days of Wine and Roses" and told me to play it for him next lesson. So as soon as I'd get home, I'd have my mom (who was a hobby pianist) play my new charts. She didn't know what I was up to; she was just happy to have something new to play. But I was quickly picking them up by ear and memorizing them, then I'd go to the next lesson and pretend I was reading them. I had him duped for a full year! But he finally figured it out and put a new chart in front of me and told me to read it... and of course I couldn't! So he gave me 2 weeks to get my reading together and of course I didn't and he dropped me. I never took a lesson again after that. I didn't quit playing; I had a band I'd practice with once or twice a week and I'd leave my guitar at the house we practiced at (DOH!). So on the summer that I graduated high school, I admitted to myself that I'd been playing for 7 years and I still sucked! And I practiced with a metronome 7 hours a day every day that summer. Taught myself the modes (though I didn't know what they were called) and whole tone and diminished scales, etc. Everything I could think of except learning to read. Within 5 years, I was in about 8 or 9 bands playing all sorts of musical genres and lots of original material. Sorry for the long post! BTW, I have your albums (I discovered the older one 2 weeks ago), Ben. I dig them a lot; you're a great player!

[@jroobz]

i prefer to read pitch with tab and rhythm with notation. the critical thing I've learned is if you're going to learn to read, you need to do it often and consistently - I've found that I've not needed to do this so I'm not a good reader. also it baffles me how piano players read two staves at the same time in real time... like how tf? i couldn't do that with written english

[@greg6L6GC]

With string instruments you can play the same note in different positions. How do you write that? I’d rather be good at improv

[@beneunson]

Fair observations! Thanks for watching!

[@Double_0_7_Strings]

It’s definitely a sore subject for me. I’ve had music classes in high school that taught me how to read, but sight reading is unreal. Feeling the rhythms are way harder than reading the actual notes. But I’m making my way through the real book, just to get me comfortable with melodies.

[@beneunson]

Thanks so much for sharing this! Real Book is great for reading

[@koenstrobbe8101]

Hmm complicated question. I would not say it's a guitarist problem in general, but.. I transcribed a Bach harpsichord piece to guitar and it takes a seriously long time to figure out where to play the combination of the notes on a guitar - I understand we can play things in different places on the neck, but apart from that, the correct positions (or sometimes the only possible ones) depend on the prior and after. It's impossible to sightread the notes and play the whole thing start to finish. The real reason though (i think) is that in contemporary music the guitar is more seen as a solo/improvisation instrument, and less as a rhythm/chords instrument, as it was in the earlier days. It is after all a very tactile instrument, and there is a reason why we consider the greatest guitar players of all time to be those who can play things freely. You do not need to be able to sightread compositions if you are a) making your own or b) improvise by feeling/hearing. However, this does not mean sightreading music has no benefits, on the contrary, it is a very powerful thing to have besides the above. But hey, there are famous session guitar players who are not that proficient on reading either, they work more on understanding the harmony/chords and understand what works in between. Steve Lukather talks about it in his interview with Rick Beato.

[@beneunson]

Great insights, thanks so much for watching!

[@johancnilson]

I recommend thinking numbers: Key C: Ab=b6, F#=#4, etc..

[@beneunson]

Great suggestion!

[@austinsatterfield6792]

Honestly once I really made the effort to finally learn theory and sheet music, it was confusing a but but wasn't near as complex as I was making it out to be

[@MarkT-v7f]

I learned to use tab first, then when I got used to playing and started playing lead, it was ingrained by then.

[@cooldebt]

@0:03-0:06 was one of the most beautiful licks I've ever heard 💖

[@beneunson]

So glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!

[@vecernicek2]

Guilty! I can read on cello and piano, but once I take guitar in my hands, I am suddenly suffering from note blindness.

[@jurgenwerner5236]

I think everyone of us guitarists know this challange to cope with written music. As a guitarist in bigbands I often get sheets with sax, trumpet or trombone lines just copied into the guitar voice or even worse full piano chords unable to be played on guitar. So I have to re-arrange some chords or parts to make it playable. I write the best positions, fingerings or the voicing on the sheet. But this is too much information to rembember and read and play it in realtime in live situation at uptime tempo. So I have to learn to play the tunes by heart. But that is sometimes too much. How to adress this problem? ...The horn players totally rely on thier sheets. Even on new unkown tunes. They can play it at once.

[@beneunson]

I have had the exact same problem playing in big bands in the past!

[@yarv884]

How would you deal in alternate tunings without tab?

[@yarv884]

@peterpickguitar drop D is not the only alternate tuning, we use dgdghe for example, and alternate tunings are made for easier fingering, if you move it to other part of the fingerboard it would be more difficult to play or even impossible. So you need to know exact finger placement.

[@Gramps714]

Just curious.. if the guitar sounds one octave lower than the notated pitches, why not use the bass clef and show the notes as the correct pitches? I’ve heard about the grand staff, why not use that and not deal with as many upper ledger lines?

[@znmaf]

Also if a player has great ability technically but never sight read ,starting to sight read creates a mismatch between that ability and reading -a bottle neck /a paralysis

[@kevinmaillet4712]

I use tab for the fingering and the musical notation for the timing. The anti tab snobbery among my fellow classical guitarists is tiring. And yes, i play classical and I use tab. Why reinvent the wheel every single time?

[@beneunson]

Great insight, thanks for sharing! When I studied classical guitar many years ago, I found that scores featuring TAB accompanying the notation helped me understand difficult fingerings with greater ease.

[@Robert-Peterson]

I'm a guitarist and I can read good and wanna learn to do other stuff good, too.

[@Gramps714]

I can read TAB pretty quick. I’m just starting to re-learn how to read standard BUT in the first position- with the Leavitt modern method. I’d love to learn in the 4-5th position but there’s no learning materials out there that include the scales and fingerings in standard that start up the frets. If you have such a program I’d buy it today!

[@beneunson]

Great idea! I'll have one soon!

[@IndyRockStar]

Guitar is one of the few instruments, especially when played in an ensemble, that lends itself to playing primarily by ear and feel. Reading music, outside of professional studio work, just isn't that necessary outside of key signature and key.

[@TheTimeProphet]

I have been playing guitar for years, and I cannot read music. In fact a lot of professional musicians cannot read music, eg Gary Moore could never read music. However it would be nice if I could. I just can't do it LOL.

[@beneunson]

Thanks for sharing!

[@zerikaz55]

This is my obligatory engagement because guitarists should take an interest in sight reading and using sheet music. Tabs and cheat sheets are great, but sheet music communicates everything they fail to, and enables us to create and communicate with other musicians in vivid detail.

[@LorenFagen]

An old joke from long ago..."How do you get a guitar player to shut up?" (answer) "Put a chart in front of him"

[@smthnew861]

I just write music in tab to remember what I've wrote. I'm not a session player. So notation is not a problem to me.

[@kenny78166]

I do a lot of pit work on bass and upright, so I tend to play alongside the same 2-3 guitarists for most show and tours. They're all good readers, but the thing is, no-one expects them to read. HOWEVER, that's not a free pass; they make it up in other ways. A recent example is when a 4 bar run called for the guitarist to double the horns. It took him 2 listens at the only rehearsal we did, and he did it absolutely perfectly first try, as if it was the easiest thing in world. 4 bars of winding, syncopated, Tower of Power horn lines. I had to laugh...

[@beneunson]

That's a great real-world scenario, thanks for sharing!

[@logangreenwel2532]

As a pianist as saxophonist I feel bad for making fun of guitarists for being bad readers. The different tambre of one line in different places on the neck is amazing

[@jan_07]

Reading music is one thing. But some other musicians think that if guitarists can read music, then they should be able to sight read like piano players - which is false. Guitarists will read music, assimilate it, and then design a fretboard pathway way more advanced before practice time than other types musicians. It is a tedious process which could be used for other more important things especially if schedules are tight. Other musicians have linear graduations of notes in their instruments (lucky them), while guitarists have almost like 6 pianos lined up and would have different arrangements based on tunings. Whenever some musicians tell you you’re poor at playing written music on the spot as a guitar player, tell them to learn the guitar and read the music sheet too. Reading notes and playing them almost instantaneously wasn’t really how the guitar was designed to be played. So people should stop forcing the issue, it’s like fitting a square peg into a rounded slot.

[@redpillpusher]

hmm pro session guitarist like rhett shull and tim pierce, popular and effective instructors like marty schwarz, paul david and papa brett seem to be doing just great without reading music.

[@jirikrajnak9047]

4:32 mind blown 🤯

[@redpillpusher]

😂

[@judwatkins9478]

This teaching is so fundamental, I'm surprised it is taught infrequently on YT. Here's another reason standard notation sight reading is rare among guitarists: Most people find they can make music almost immediately when they pick up a guitar. The average student taking up piano or organ, however, faces more introductory hand positions and chord changes before it sounds listenable.

[@AlanShoesmith]

Personally, as a guitarist and composer, I have found that learning how to work with standard notation has become an essential skill to help me get to certain creative places.

[@beneunson]

Same for me! Thanks for watching!