benyamind - Love Particle | 31-EDO

[@steview.9035]

It has the colors that have been lost in the well-tempered scale. Occasionally it reminds briefly of Bali.

[@jeremybuckets]

Occasionally it reminds briefly of music

[@Guapter]

it IS tempered scale, just another divider

[@speakersr-lyefaudio6830]

Microtonal has so much potential, it's insane how few people will listen to it

[@benyamind]

I think modern interpretations of microtonality will boom big time upcoming decades!

[@lumbearcat]

Unfortunately classically trained musicians tend to think microtones just sound untuned and are unusable correctly, however I have good hopes this will change in the future as we'll see more microtonal content emerge :D

Till now, the most beautiful 31 EDO composition I've heard.❤

[@benyamind]

I appreciate it 🙏

[@ryanmccarter9859]

This sounds awesome. Sounds different enough to appreciate the expanded palette that microtonality offers, without being "weird" enough to turn off normies.

[@benyamind]

Glad you like it man! I see where you are coming from as well. It actually took me a long time before my ear opened up to micro-tonality and I got convinced to pursue it. I prefer relatable, tonal, harmonious stuff (even though I dare a lot to go 'weird' haha. I think the beauty is right there, or at least; the potential beauty)

[@jonathankey1533]

My favorite work of yours. That one chord change around 4:50 is absolutely euphoric

[@stephenweigel]

Some really nice chords in here. I think you've gotten better at using 31-edo. Interestingly - I'd say 31 is practical for isomorphic keyboard situations, or with, say, the Tonal Plexus. It's about on the upper end for what fretted guitar players can make work. I have seen 41 and 53 fretted guitars (but not the 53 used). And of course, the Catler Bros. There's also George Vogel's 34-note MIDI keyboard, which you've probably seen (which is incredible and one-of-a kind)! Wow, that change near 4:49 is my favorite!

[@benyamind]

Yo Stephen, cheers for sharing your thoughts! Did you see the 41 fretted guitar be performed? Is there a video of that somewhere? I would love to see that haha.

[@stephenweigel]

benyamind kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3ivoGuhd9qAepI Yossi’s 41edo guitar is a baritone, I think (longer neck)

[@Sedyon]

I see you everywhere in the comment sections of videos about microtonality 🤣

[@benyamind]

@@Sedyon He is the omnipresent entity serving and guarding the realm.

[@Sedyon]

@@benyamind yeah

[@cactusowo1835]

The final section at 4:40 always gets this exclusive emotion out of it. If I had to describe the flavour of the subm3rd chord, it would be a really fresh mint, and it's colours are a lush mix of black and green. And that passing chord what I think is a pentatonic cluster a quartertone lower will always make my skin to get on tip

[@benyamind]

The idea there was to have that sub-minor chord serve as a temporary home to give more depth to that final minor home, and that little passing structure served really well to get me there! I enjoy these small analyses you sometimes do.👌

[@davidbenitez6415]

This is incredible, teared up and had chills throughout

[@benyamind]

It's a humbling thing to know your music has touched someone. Thank you for you words, I'll take it with me in my music!

[@e8heterotic649]

Nice piano part, is that pianoteq? 31 has been used to make a glass marimba which is fairly functional. Because 31 EDO is almost exactly quarter comma meantone tuning, you can actually represent it quite well on a 2-Dimensional keyboard, where one direction goes up a fifth and the other is an octave. That can actually make 31 EDO practical for pianos and marimbas. I know a lot less about guitars, though. 34 can be "practical" by having 2 pianos which are both in 17 EDO. 17 EDO is super easy to put on a piano by just splitting the black keys. That's what Wyschnegradsky did to get 24 EDO piano compositions, I believe. I think electronics are very nice for expanding musical possibilities in many ways, including tuning. The main issue I've had is that "expressiveness" is a bit harder with purely digital stuff. It can be done, but it's not as organic or easy. More creative stuff is coming out to make microtonality easier all the time and technically, the human voice and the violin are already "microtonal" in nature, as long as your ear is trained for it. I like to believe that microtonality is part of the future of music, especially since all harmony that can be done with 12 EDO has already been done. There's more that can be done with timber and rhythm, of course, but that can be done at the same time as microtonality.

[@e8heterotic649]

www.huygens-fokker.org/instruments/fokkerorgan.html That's all about Fokker's 31 EDO organ and the 2D keyboard it used. 31 is tricky on a 1D keyboard because of how many notes it is, but in 2D it works great.

[@benyamind]

The piano is from the library 'alicia keys' for Kontakt. Yeah I think that microtonality will have a more prominent role in the future, especially with the technological development of software and the constant quest for humanity to expand. I come from a 12-tone background but for me the usage of micro-tones has become somewhat natural. I mean, just like 'normal' music has consonance and dissonance, microtonal music has that too. I would love to see composers that are considered to be the greats utilize stuff like 17, 22, 31, 34 etc. Just to see what happens :) Cheers for sharing your thoughts!

[@cactusowo1835]

The sound of the 9th chord at 3:30 allways makes my heart skip a beat, it's so crunchy, so beautiful and it only last one second! Edit: fixed timestamp '-'

[@MacacoDoSistema]

Beautiful melodies I especially like the piano part. Amazing with an universal/spiritual feeling

[@Guapter]

very beautiful melody, nice work with sound of piano, so it sounds pure and preasing with that chords.

[@element_119]

This is beautiful! I haven't dug enough into 31-edo to fully realize its potential, but it appears to be a common sentiment... I do agree with the observation of its impracticality in live music, which is quite unfortunate. However, you are right that human ingenuity will likely be able to overcome this! Anyway, keep it up man! I always enjoy your music!

[@benyamind]

Yeah 31 is always in the discussion when it comes to temperaments. Here are two links, one of a guitarist with a 31-tone guitar, and one of a 31-tone marimba performance. And these performances actually flow very well, I do have to say you can see the slight difficulties he sometimes has with the guitar. However, I think this does show it can all be developed to a point of comfort and we might witness that kind of stuff happening who knows. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4iod5uLipqFeZI kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGXGnKqAhtGdn5Y Thank you as always man! Peace

[@johnsmith-ch7fg]

@@benyamind It is true I have heard many highly rate 31 but there isn't a great deal of music to demonstrate it; I think 31 notes is always going to be a bit impractical unless you choose a subset - essentially what 1/4 comma meantone was so this sort of solutions already out there. Have you heard Sethares "Conversation about the Moon'? - not super Xen but pretty 31. I've more loved your work in 22 TBH - 31 has to have huge possibilities but 22 appeals and I guess it more forces novelty in someways since you don't have that 12tone meantone thing sitting in the middle - anyway keep up the good work

[@benyamind]

@@johnsmith-ch7fg Hey man, cheers for sharing your thoughts! I tried looking up 'conversation about the moon' but I couldn't find an audio file on the web. As you mention, 31 has to have lots of possibilities, and that's the potential I see in it that makes me want to explore more and more in the tuning. The fact 31 has that common scale as the center of the tuning is actually why it appeals to me, because I like to be able to go back to a rooted feel. 22 doesn't offer that and I still need to get a better feel for 'home' in 22 because it's so xen/otherworldly. I'm glad you enjoy the 22-tone stuff, I took a small break from that but I will be returning to the tuning soon. When I do I wanna tap deeper into the weirdness than I've previously done.

[@cactusowo1835]

Alternative theory music and orchestral, two of my favourite things at the same time

[@simonoppenheimer6251]

Sent here from Sevish. Started listening to your stuff and this one made me subscribe. Love your music!

[@benyamind]

Thanks a lot! I'm gonna release a microtonal album this year with more of this nature!

[@garaughty]

Brilliant work on this track !

[@benyamind]

Thank you!

[@brandonbarrett7595]

One of the most expansive sounding edo songs I've heard so far. Got any other recommendations, top favs???

[@r_astor]

Love all your microtonal pieces but this one in particular I replay a lot.

[@benyamind]

That's great to hear!

[@amj.composer]

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. What plugin was the non-piano part? It was so beautiful. [Edit]: Sorry, didn't read the comments, you've provided that info there.

[@nathax8174]

This is beautiful! Around 3:07 it reminds me of John 19:41 in jesus christ superstar. Great stuff man this gives me so many different feelings

[@henrikljungstrand2036]

I think that 31edo is almost the best Meantone temperament system there is, possibly excepting 50edo. Of course, fine tuning may help, such as TOP 31 equal, with slightly stretched octaves. Now i like other tuning systems than Meantone, like Miracle, Magic, Orwell, Schizmatic, Garibaldi, or if i'm in the mood say Superpyth, Pajara, Porcupine, Mavila, Blackwood, Whitewood, Hornbostle etc. But 31edo is near perfect as a 7-limit Meantone temperament/tuning, and good as an 11-limit or even decent as a 13-limit tuning. 31edo is also an good Miracle tuning and Orwell tuning.

[@latigidon8226]

Like it, great arrangement!

[@ThomasTerry]

Amazing

[@skippy51505150]

I agree, this is the bridge tuning. Why isn't this compatible with fretted instruments?

[@benyamind]

When I wrote that paragraph to my knowledge 31 seemed a bit impractical due to the sheer size of the scale. However, people are using 31-tone guitars, there's the Huygens-Fokker organ, the Lumatone is out... there's a lot going on. And of course you can use sub-sets to condense the scale etc. Thanks for tuning in!

[@brandonbarrett7595]

Stunning.

[@TheApostleofRock]

Intriguing piece. I see that you say the keys are alicia keys for Kontakt. What are you using for the orchestra? I'm only aware of microtonal synths. And that you can manipulate tuning on certain Kontakt instruments (if the manufacturer allows, and it's tedious). Otherwise all I can think of is manually adjusting the tuning of certain tracks/parts as needed. Which sounds dizzying in how tedious it would be. Fabio Costa's "And While There He Sighs" may be my fave 31edo piece, and he said he's using orchestral samples, but didn't say his methodology

[@benyamind]

The strings in this particular instance are from the Ethno World 6 library for Kontakt. I do most of my microtonal work with Kontakt. There are however more synths that give access to microtuning. I sometimes use Xfer Serum too. Here's a wiki list of VSTs that support microtuning: en.xen.wiki/w/List_of_microtonal_software_plugins It helps to learn how to work with .tun files (and similar files) and how to import 'm into VSTs to generate microtonal scales. Sevish's scale workshop is a great engine for generating these files: sevish.com/scaleworkshop - Definitely worth checking out his site too for more info on microtonal production. Additionally here is a tutorial I made for microtuning in Kontakt: kzbin.info/www/bejne/epS6pZ98Z9p9ibs - It is indeed a bit buggy in my experience, but at least you can get a lot of nice stuff going. Thanks for reaching out. Hope this helps!

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

This composition makes a pretty good use of 31EDO, without the sudden awkward remodulations and clunker chords and other note combinations that I often hear in 31EDO music that have left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth for 31EDO, although I have heard a few other compositions that do not have those problems. I am beginning to think that those problems may be due to the prevalence of hastily-converted 12 notes per octave music in 31EDO, in which somebody did a clumsy job of getting themselves out of a common type of comma drift that 12EDO automatically guards against (by tempering out the diesis = 128/125 and the greater diesis = 648/625), because much of Western music consists of putting thirds on top of other thirds (obligatory Monty Python reference here), and composers for 12 notes per octave. Non-dodecatonic temperaments generally leave one or both types of diesis untempered (with 128/125 being somewhat over 1 step of 31EDO, and 648/625 being a bit under 2 steps of 31EDO), and thus do not guard against the associated comma drift. Edit #2: Here's somebody who really knows what they're doing when converting between different tunings: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJ29qKl9e9KirsU Of course, 31EDO does have some actual inherent limitations -- the fifth is flat enough that if you stack 2 of them, you get a really flat 9th harmonic; and the 11th and 13th harmonics are considerably off (I have yet to do the just interval search to see if those temper to something reasonably consonant the way both sizes of thirds and the harmonic minor seventh do in 12EDO). You can get good 11th and 13th harmonics in 24EDO, but then that breaks the 5th and 7th harmonics unless you temper like 12EDO does (the closest approximation of 24EDO to the 7th harmonic actually sounds worse than the 12EDO approximation). So while 24EDO might be the easier microtonal temperament for someone to compose in basically 12EDO with insertion of a few intermediate notes at strategic points (which would actually be my inclination at this point if I got a chance to compose at all), 24EDO is harder than 31EDO to use if you really want to make full use of it, as Ivan Wyschnegradsky and a handful of other compsers did (which in terms of instruments required either a humongous and ergonomically rather bad quarter-tone grand piano, or a probably underpowered and still ergonomically bad quarter-tone upright piano, or the use of two standard grand pianos tuned a quarter tone apart). So 19EDO and 31EDO may be the easier microtonal temperaments for someone who wants to make full use of the temperament, with 19EDO having fewer notes and better minor thirds but even flatter fifths and worse major thirds, and 31EDO having better major thirds and overall better consonance of the type familiar to people used to 12 notes per octave, but a LOT more notes. Note that since 31EDO is significantly sharp of quarter-comma meantone (actually 20/83-comma if I did my calculations right), it has some wiggle room for de-equalization to make a well temperament to add some flavor; if I did my calculations right, 31 note actual quarter-comma meantone would end up with a slightly super-Pythagorean dog fifth instead of a wolf fifth. In contrast, 19EDO does not have much wiggle room for de-equalization, since it is already almost right on the money for 1/3-comma meantone. Edit #1: If you want blues/jazz harmony, 31EDO has a decent approximation of the minor third, a near-just major third, and very good 7-limit harmony; the only downside is that it misses the boat on the 9/5, so this has to be tempered to 25/14. The problem with microtonal temperaments, of course, is getting acoustic instruments for playing in them (see above for clumsy solutions historically used for 24EDO in the days before isomorphic/generalized keyboards started to catch on), apart from instruments that are of continuously variable pitch. Fortunately, synthesizer technology has now gotten good enough that a recording of a synthesizer emulating an acoustic instrument can sound as good as a recording of the acoustic instrument (whether they can produce an equivalent in-person experience is another question). Of course, it also helps that a decent number of people are actually composing music with the idea of making it sound good, with or without microtonality, rather than the atonal plague that infested classical music of the mid to late 20th Century (again, with or without microtonality).

[@moonshake1234]

sublime

[@kloa4219]

1:06-2:40 favorite part of the song

[@lunyxappocalypse7071]

Wish I had the sheet music to any of these pieces. That way I could play it on the online terpstrakeyboard.

[@benyamind]

Unfortunately I'm a sheet noob 😅

[@lunyxappocalypse7071]

@@benyamind Hmm, me too. 31 harmony has like, a semi-tone and a third before moving up a note. I remember someone using Roman numerals to keep track of accidentals. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2W4hKduecmebbc

[@a.nobodys.nobody]

All this beautiful tension and release. You know this guy fucks. Bravo

[@amj.composer]

Hi Benyamind! I just have a quick question, I have Alicia keys and am attempting to microtune it using the script editor and notes per octave. It does not seem to work at all though. Do you have any remedies? How did you make it work? Thank you!

[@benyamind]

Hi, thanks for reaching out. Have you checked out my tutorial on how to microtune in Kontakt? kzbin.info/www/bejne/epS6pZ98Z9p9ibs This is exactly how I do it. Unfortunately not many libraries react well. For me the alicia keys library works so I don't know.. you sure you're picking an empty tab in the back-end? Good luck!

[@user-km9bx3gf3z]

Hey do u have the midi for this? I would love to experiment with it

[@benyamind]

Sure, if you send me an email (see description) I'll bounce it and send it over!

[@user-km9bx3gf3z]

@@benyamind will do, thanks so much

[@AttitudeCastle]

What sample libraries did you use? I am hoping to do some orchestral microtonal stuff but am struggling to find libraries that actually allow retuning outside of Vienna Symphonic Library stuff!

[@benyamind]

Hi! Yeah unfortunately there are issues with microtuning libraries in kontakt. I've had succes with the factory library, alicea keys piano, gentleman and the grandeur piano, ethno world 6 (partially), cinematic studio strings 2. Good luck!

[@uraniidumbra5219]

This sounds like a Ghibli film from another planet :O

[@uraniidumbra5219]

Like. It's got that specific flavor of wonder and optimism and exploring somewhere new to it

[@abet6583]

What software do you use to make these tracks? I've been wanting to get into 31-TET and other microtonal music for a while now but don't know where to start.

[@benyamind]

Hi! I use FL studio and the two main synths for micro-tuning I use are Kontakt and Serum. Especially Kontakt since I aim for natural sounds a lot. Kontakt has a back-end section called 'script editor' where you can set your equal temperament. Then the libraries get stretched and you'll get your tuning. (this can lead to unwanted side-effects so you'll just have to see how libraries react, and for that matter if they work at all). In the script editor section you can also tweak the existing 12 notes and set the home key. So let's say you're making a song in f# -> You set the key to f# and start tweaking the notes to your preferred lay-out. You can also save these presets, so if you make - for example - a just intonation tuning with the 12 notes you can always import it back in. Then, final option in script editor is to import whole scripts that hold the code to your tuning, like equal temperaments and just intonation systems. The scripts are basically .txt that you copy into a field. You can make these .txt with SCALA (external software) or via sevish.com/scaleworkshop. To get equal temperaments I wouldn't use this method, since the method I described earlier is way easier; being just one knob. But it cán be useful for just intonation, if you wanna go past 12 notes. Then in Serum, top right, you can import .tun files. These files you can also either make with SCALA or via sevish.com/scaleworkshop. .tun files can hold any tuning, like temperaments, just intonation systems etc. If you import them it changes the lay-out of your keys in serum to these tunings. Pretty awesome as well! Then, native to fl studio, the synth Harmor can micro-tune if I'm correct. Never used it, but it's possible. Online you can find lists of free (and paid) synths that allow micro-tuning. For example Zebra is micro-tuning friendly too. Then to easily get started, here's a free little synth that you can instantly set to any equal temperament. (download in description of the video). I use this synth often just as an easy tool to test out tunings. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJm1eKafjqimg9U If you have more specific questions I am more than willing to help out, but they'd have to be specific otherwise I can just endlessly keep typing about all kinds of things to pay attention too but it would be aimless. Cheers for tuning in!

[@abet6583]

@@benyamind Thanks!

[@pauschultz2259]

@benyamind this is a goldmine! Thank you for taking your time to share your knowledge.