Bernardo Kastrup on the scientific evidence against materialism

An excerpt from the four-week course with Bernardo Kastrup, "With Reality in Mind" co-hosted with the Psychedelic Society.
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Bernardo Kastrup's work has been leading the modern renaissance of the philosophical position, ‘metaphysical idealism’ that reality is essentially mental, an appearance in ‘mind.’ Bernardo has a Ph.D. in philosophy (ontology, philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (reconfigurable computing, artificial intelligence). As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories (where the 'Casimir Effect' of Quantum Field Theory was discovered). Formulated in detail in many academic papers and books, his ideas have been featured on Scientific American, the Institute of Art and Ideas, the Blog of the American Philosophical Association and Big Think, among others. Bernardo's most recent book is The Idea of the World: A multi-disciplinary argument for the mental nature of reality. For more information, freely downloadable papers, videos, etc., please visit httpps://www.bernardokastrup.com.
LINKS TO PAPERS AND WORK BY BERNARDO:
Scientific American articles:
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Academic Paper
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The Idea of the World
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[@tomatoversace3427]

this aged very well. 2022 nobel prize.

[@purpose6113]

When people learn that psi phenomenons are real (and yes, there is an absurd of scientific evidence for psi phenomenon, it's a fact that its real), there will be a massive paradigm shift.

[@leandrosilvagoncalves1939]

It seems a change of paradigm is coming... More and more incredibly smart people are refuting materialism.

[@cx777o]

And i am glad that is happening, because materialism is an ideology which is harming peoples lives in the longrun, devalueing life and everything created

[@martam4142]

Materialism is akin to a cult.

[@MrWirikuta]

No, only a few idiot that thing that mdma experience when they were young make some profound sense

[@equinoxproject2284]

Instead of refuting materialism what is the positive case for it's replacement or alternative.

[@SM-il6tx]

@@equinoxproject2284 To such a question the opponents of materialism have no answer.

[@vicvic2081]

I feel fear I love her Materialists: nope

[@TheAce736]

Materialists with blood samples and EEGs: yep. Checks out.

[@fourshore502]

love the bern!

[@arosalesmusic]

How do you explain thousands of cases of NDE´s? Obviously there is consciousness outside your body, but it is still dissociated from the Conscious field, even after death. This sort of conflicts with Bernardo´s point of dissociation.

[@hawkkim1974]

Exactly! In Matrix, would we be able to prove that body really exist?

[@dr.satishsharma9794]

Excellent...... thanks.

[@sopanmcfadden276]

The only bridge to reality is the mind

[@SM-il6tx]

Why can't you no longer comment comments here?

[@analyticeschatology4143]

Are the courses Open for all or for academics only ?

[@adventuresinawareness]

Open to all!

[@analyticeschatology4143]

@@adventuresinawareness thanks for the reply

[@MrWirikuta]

Because the ultimate reality is unkownable through the means we have, what the purpose of a reasoning like this?

[@maavella]

Is last year's program archived, available anywhere to stream?

[@adventuresinawareness]

I'm working on more edits that remove the other participants and hope to release them over the coming weeks. Much of the event is a dialogue with Benardo with participants who haven't agreed to have there conversations made public :)

[@maavella]

Adventures in Awareness thank you 🙏🏽!

[@pepedestroyer5974]

3:22

[@pepedestroyer5974]

4:33

[@astralgod6448]

The notion that physics and more specifically quantum mechanics debunks materialism is based on the misconception that observer means sentient observer. "Observer" in quantum physics doesn't mean sentient observer. It just means something interacting with it.

[@anthonygreico9735]

Do you mean to say that the “observer” collapsing the wave function does NOT mean sentient observer?

[@astralgod6448]

@@anthonygreico9735 yes

[@anthonygreico9735]

@@astralgod6448 Does that mean consciousness is NEVER a factor in collapse?

[@astralgod6448]

@@anthonygreico9735 Consciousness isn't required. Observation in this context indicates some sort of interaction, not necessarily an intelligent one. Think of it this way, you can look at your desk, and see objects on it. But in order to see those objects, photons have to strike those objects, and bounce off them, then strike your retina. This is not a passive activity, those photons have an effect when they strike the object. If you're looking at an electron with an electron microscope, you have to strike it with a photon. This will alter its direction, speed, and so on.

[@anthonygreico9735]

Are you a materialistic?

[@theosib]

The success of science doesn't prove materialism; that doesn't make science and materialism incompatible. Quantum physics has NOT thrown physical realism out the window; it's just given us a different perspective. Physical realism doesn't imply defined position, form, etc. It is false to say that physicality arises only upon observation. This is the Copenhagen interpretation, which no physicist believes anymore. Everything is always in a state of superposition all the time, and entanglement only reduces the diffuseness of quantum states. Even AFTER observations, there are no classical defined shapes, positions, etc. Mostly what we do is observe a quantum state through a massively high-gain amplifier, whose results we falsely perceive to be classical in nature. Yes, there is something out there, but saying it's "not physical" is playing semantic games. Absolutely everything in reality that we interact with is made up of these quantum field excitations that are entirely wave-like in nature. Always. Physicality doesn't arise from observation. Observation is nothing more than entanglement between the quantum system and a detector, which is nothing more than another quantum system.

[@zakarda]

What can observe ? Do you need a human to observe things for it to exist or will animals qualify? Does the observer need to be conscious? Then what is consciousness ? This is a great video to convince people that do not know better, but it is very unsatisfactory. I must also add that i am open to dualism or idealism if proven, but will not assume that this is the case.

[@adventuresinawareness]

Hey Zakarda - this video is just a short excerpt to give people a sense of Bernardo's approach, if you want to dive deeper you could check out Bernardo's website for the articles and papers he mentions, his book 'The Idea of the World' as a very rigorous collection of both scientific and philosophical evidence, or join the four-week course. I'll add all the links in the description, thanks! :)

[@zakarda]

@@adventuresinawareness I went to his website and was quite honestly disapointed. I have not read his book but i dont see why i should if his most easily accessible material(his website) is the way it is. Also his approach to this seems to be very emotionally driven judging from the way he talks about materialists. If he had proof for his ontological stance that would be great news, so to present it in this way is a disservice to the conversations that could exist.

[@zakarda]

I must add that it is fully possible that he would be great in a conversation, and that this format might be limiting.

[@adventuresinawareness]

​@@zakarda For me, he's great in conversation and often very passionate! I really enjoy that actually, but I guess that's a matter of taste. There are dozens of podcast interviews with him on youtube you could check out, but you may also prefer a different style to a similar approach, such as Donald Hoffman: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYrTZourfL6kp7s Anyway, thanks for checking in and hope you enjoy where ever your exploration takes you :)

[@zakarda]

@@adventuresinawareness I dont care much for passion since it often clouds reason. And i am only interested in what is true, not what makes anyone feel good. I have now watched some of the videos he recommended on his website and i am almost convinced that his agenda is converting people to his point of view. Also the way he talks about quantum physics is truly missleading.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

Kastrup spends a lot of time saying that people don't understand things. In this he even says that "materialists don't understand materialism". In the last thing I read he said that Sam Harris doesn't understand either philosophy or idealism. All he means is that these people don't have exactly the same views that he has. He conflates that with not understanding things. Well, Kastrup doesn't understand materialism. When he describes the position of materialism at the beginning, that is actually metaphysical realism. Some metaphysical realists are anti-materialists and some materialists are anti-realists. It entirely depends on the materialist. Also, it has been mainly scientists who have been realists, not philosophical materialists. Albert Einstein is a perfect example of this and this was his main problem with quantum mechanics. What materialists do believe is that there is nothing supernatural and that mind isn't literally everything. Kastrup believes that consciousness is everything and also seems to have a belief in the supernatural.

[@G_Singh222]

"There is nothing supernatural" that depends on your definition of supernatural. Kastrup doesn’t believe in the supernatural

[@timh4255]

no, he means they don't understand and he's right. materialism is incoherent, its ppl trying to pull the territory out of the map. these who believe in it either do so because of unexamined assumptions or because they're lost in a world of abstraction and can't tell the difference between reality and thoughts.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

@@timh4255 The word "incoherent" has been used about literally every philosophical *ism* at some point or other. It has certainly been used about idealism. So it's probably best to deploy arguments instead of phrases like "unexamined assumptions", poeticisms like "lost in a world of abstraction" and the ad hominems and terms of abuse which Bernardo Kastrup himself often uses. (He's even written an article - on his blog - defending his use of ad homs against his opponents.) Rather than simply (to use your word) "assuming" that all non-idealists or "materialists" are dumb or brainwashed, argue your case instead.

[@timh4255]

@@paulaustinmurphy the arguments have been made... ridicule is about the right approach to any materialists who are still around.

[@paulaustinmurphy]

@@timh4255 Have *you* made the arguments? Unless you're admitting that you rely entirely on the arguments of Kastrup. Wouldn't that be like being part of a cult? Perhaps it's the case that "ridicule" is used by those who can't argue their case. That is, they can't express their philosophical positions in terms other than ridicule, ad homs, abuse, etc.... So cite a specific position or argument of Kastrup's. And then put *your own* position on it with *your own* additions and commentaries. If you don't do this, then you'll simply come across as a loyal and uncritical disciple of Kastrup, of which there seems to be many.

[@oliviergoethals4137]

🙏

[@SM-il6tx]

If there is something out there that makes us see the same world, why is that not physical but has necessesarily to be mental? Why needs materialism physical realism? How does your all is consciousness theory explain and interpret quantum mechanics? Has Bohmian interpretation of quantum mechanics been falsified? Your way of thinking simply is: quantum physics shows that outcomes of experiments are only determined in the moment of measurement. So the measurement has an important roll. So far correct, but the next step contains the fallacy: The measurement only takes place when some body becomes conscious of the result. So the world outside cannot be physical and there is only consciousness. You just claim or postulate that quantum mechanic mysteries support your ideas. But you give no explanation for that. That's not convincing at all. Instead you only state that empirical results falsify physical realism. But why does that falsify materialism? The many worlds interpretation is still possible. Or even Bohmian quantum mechanics (I don't know). So your theory is not supported at all. Furthermore you would have to explain how experimental findings are explained and to be understood in your theory. But no word about that. You only had an argument or made a real contribution to scientific discussion if you could offer a better interpretation of quantum mechanics. But instead you rise even more questions. In what sense is the wave function mental? How and why appear mental processes from the outside view so strange? How do you model that? Why and how decides consciousness about the outcome of measurements. Why is there no superposition in consciousness?

[@SYSM71]

Ich schicke dir gerne viele Erklärungen für deine Fragen in einem umfangreichen Dokumente, an dem ich gerade Arbeite. Geht weit über das Niveau hier heraus.

[@SYSM71]

Brauche nur irgendwelche Kontaktdaten, gerne Fake E-Mail...

[@SM-il6tx]

Metaphysical idealism is like religion. You can philosophize endlessly on abstract level how nice and easy to understand the world would be, if it was true. But don't ask annoying detailed questions and for a proof or try to understand it. You have to believe it. Just as you have to believe in Jesus or an immortal soul. But if you can, it's very plesant and satisfying.

[@themarchoftime3691]

No it isn't Either you Haven't Watched bernardo kastrup's Videos on idealism or Your one of those Morons Who think Materialism is the one True Religion When these Videos Outright Show the many Flaws of materialism kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3LVhKKij71kb7c Materialism verus idealism and kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJ6ac6uijNGpsMU Top 10 Materialist Fallacies and Read His Website if you want to understand more www.bernardokastrup.com/2014/06/ways-materialists-beg-question.html

[@themarchoftime3691]

and if you Don't respond back or Give a illogical argument then Good for you Believe in your Hog-wash Delusions

[@themarchoftime3691]

Nevermind Found out You are in the Linked Video's Comment Section Your Basically trolling at this Point

[@SYSM71]

@@themarchoftime3691 This guy never follows any argument, but gives only pseudointelectual nonsense answers. Could be a fundamental believer in the last religion called (mainstream) science.

[@SYSM71]

@@themarchoftime3691 Let's troll him back.. he believe obviously, that he knows already the final answer on the most fundamental question in humanity.