Jinger Duggar on Deepest Regret: The Courtship Game

#jingerduggar #jingervuolo #tlc
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In 2014, Jinger Duggar along with her sisters, Jana, Jill, and Jessa, wrote the book "Growing Up Duggar: It's All About Relationships". In that book the sisters wrote at length about their views and standards regarding courtship. According to the Duggars, courtship, is the "biblical way to find a life partner". In Jinger's new book, "Becoming Free Indeed", she expresses deep regret for promoting Bill Gothards "courtship standards" as she no longer feels courtship is the best and only way to find a spouse.
Sources/Credits:
www.amazon.com/Growing-Up-Dug...
www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-P...
www.amazon.com/Becoming-Free-...
kzbin.infotFVTQnyg...
• Cultish - Jinger Dugga...
• Becoming Free Indeed: ...
• On Duggar Theology, Jo...
• Here's Why Jinger Dugg...
• Purity Culture IS Rape...
"It's NOT Tea. It's Information" - BE

[@betheecommentator]

Questions: How involved should parents be when it comes to their children's dating lives, relationships, and marriages? Are you pro - courtship, against it, or somewhere in the middle? Also, Jinger has stated that compared to other survivors of the courtship and purity movement, her story and experience is mild. In the future I plan on doing a deep dive into some of the very sad stories I came across while researching for this video.

[@melinehhacopians1184]

My parents were strict but didnt play god. 🎉

[@Wizzz2288]

Personality I wanted & got zero imput from my parents. I'm already looking forward to your deep dive into some of the other stories you came across whilst doing your research.

[@betheecommentator]

@@Wizzz2288 thank you so much for responding and answering the questions. When I was about 13 I had my first relationship. Lasted for 5 years. My parents never got involved either, I just think they trusted my judgment ❤️

[@temilouwho1320]

I think parents need to be involved to a certain extent, when under 18. Talk to them about everything. (My kids could talk to me about anything because I wouldn't freak out.And they would!) Know where they will be. Set curfews. Encourage family time with their boyfriend/girlfriend included, so you can also get to know them. As they become adults, give them the space and authority to decide what they want for their lives, but also let them know you are still there if needed. As adults, I don't interfere in their relationships because that wouldn't be helpful or respectful. My kids also know what they want. All 3 of my adult children (30, 25, & 25) have had the same partners since high school. So, I hope that means I did something right. I don't agree with courtship. It's not healthy. I guess I would be in the middle somewhere.

[@betheecommentator]

@@temilouwho1320 love your comment and breakdown. I really appreciate you answering the questions and taking the time to explain your thought process and how things worked in your family system. Good job 👍 ❤️

[@industrialover]

How hilarious that Jim Bob would ask these guys all these questions, but not hold his son to the same standard

[@betheecommentator]

Very interesting point.

[@racheldavidson2172]

My thoughts exactly !

[@AngiDas]

This a million times!!

[@ladyv5655]

Also, according to the IBLP, Jim Bob was supposed to protect his daughters' "purity", but he turned a blind eye to what Josh was doing to them. I'd say he has failed spectacularly in that.

[@shirleybrewer8921]

He actually called the police on his son when the first incident happened when he was a minor.

[@iatecielssoulsorrysebastian]

Anything relating to the Duggar family has always been so fascinating to me. It’s like a car crash you can’t look away from. It’s nice to hear some insight from Jinger.

[@betheecommentator]

I agree, I find it so intriguing and fascinating! Thanks so much for watching!

[@bethmoore7722]

I just gave up trying not to. The Duggars and Sisterwives, too. I do have some history with a fundie cult that taught the same violent, abusive things about child-rearing as the IBLP, which is the cult the Duggars have been active in. It was 50 years ago, and I’m fascinated with the continuity and development of the evangelical theocratic movement. Their invasive, authoritarian restrictions that seek to choke out any feminine power before it’s even born is making me kind of nervous.

[@gowest5145]

Why listen to Jinger? She is just in another cult now.

[@darcya.9390]

We have freedom and liberty in Christ. Jesus Christ gives us his perfect righteousness as a free gift. It's not something we earn or achieve by making a "fair shew in the flesh." What Bill Gothard espoused is a form of godliness but denying the power. When someone trusts the gospel of Christ, they are no longer in Adam but in Christ. God accomplishes this by baptizing the person who trust's Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as atonement for their sin with the spiritual baptism (not water) found in I Corinthians 12:13 KJB. You simply hear this gospel and trust it, and the God immediately seals you with his holy Spirit of promise (I Corinthians 15:1-4 and Ephesians 1:13 KJB). Our works have nothing to do with our soul's salvation. Once we trust this gospel of grace, we are positionally just as righteous as Jesus Christ. Again, not because our righteousness is obtained by performance, but by a transaction whereby God takes us out of Adam and places us in Christ. We become bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh. This is a permanent union that cannot be changed. At this point, the believer will grow as they put sound doctrine in their inner man. Christ cannot deny himself! Should we walk worthy of the vocation whereby we were called? Yes! But we still sin because we are still in our flesh after salvation. But God doesn't recognize this sin because of the circumcision that he performs on us according to Colossians 2:11 KJB. Gods puts off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. This is why it's foolish to tell people they need to repent when they sin as believers and confess their sins to be restored to "fellowship with God." For one thing, "repent" doesn't mean "turn from sin" or "stop sinning." Repent means "change your mind." God repented multiple times in the Bible, and we know he never sinned! But he did change his mind! The gospel isn't being preached correctly in denominational Christianity. The gospel of grace is perverted with works making it of none effect. It says in Galatians 1 KJB that anyone who perverts the gospel is accursed. Be careful! God saved Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus and made him the first member of the body of Christ and our pattern. He is the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJB). The resurrected Lord Jesus Christ made Saul "Paul" and the minister of the dispensation of grace and gave him the grace gospel and doctrine BY REVELATION. Paul didn't learn it from the twelve apostles because they were ministers of Israel's Law program, not Paul's grace program. We must "rightly divide" the scriptures according to 2Timothy 2:15 KJB. That means we don't combine law and grace, Israel and the church the body of Christ, prophecy and mystery [doctrine]. We divide and separate them. Bill Gothard isn't doing this! He conflates the scriptures, combining prophecy and mystery doctrine and puts people under law principles rather than grace principles. Paul wrote Romans through Philemon. Those 13 books comprise the doctrine for the church the body of Christ today in this current grace dispensation. The gospel is found in I Corinthians 15:1-4 KJB. Paul called Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as atonement for our sins "my gospel" because Christ gave it to him, not the twelve! Please see Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, and 2Timothy 2:8 KJB. Amen!

[@Banana-lk7tf]

​@gowest5145 really?? Which one?

[@notheothersarah]

Bill Gothard, unmarried man with no children and people flock to him for his teachings on marriage courtship it blows my mind

[@LisaKoffler]

It blows my mind, too!

[@LindaDecker-yk7wo]

So does the Catholic Church. I went through Catholic schools because the public schools were unsafe and lacking a true education which I agreed with, but when it came to family and marriage I voiced my opinion why should I accept a priests opinions when they have never been in the situation. Yes I received a detention for my words which I served but later was removed from the class because I wasn't going to listen or keep my opinions to myself. My parents worked out an agreement with the school that I could take marriage counseling from our pastor who was married and understood the situation.

[@pianomanhere]

He resigned as the leader of IBLP.

[@notheothersarah]

@@pianomanhere lol not very willingly

[@lucihedley5568]

And what / where / how did he end up?

[@Wizzz2288]

I really admire Jinger for getting away from her family's Cult & speaking out

[@betheecommentator]

Me too, I love the insight she’s sharing

[@Wizzz2288]

@@betheecommentator I Love the way you present your video's. You do the best research & have the best voice on UTube 🎙️🥇🏆

[@betheecommentator]

@@Wizzz2288 you’re sweet, thank you ❤️💕

[@jillyann4]

But into another cult unfortunately. MacArthur is guilty of so many crimes and covered up husband's who abuse their wives. They were gaslighted to feel the abuse was their fault. So yes, good for her to leave one cult but she still has a lot more work to do.

[@joymiller2492]

@@jillyann4 100% she’s still in a cult that hates the LGBT community and advocates against women having abortion care like Jessa.

[@chittyluv2651]

This really shook me hearing how those girls speak about the relationship with Dad was so important and how both parents are your main relationship when Jim Bob and Michelle did nothing to protect them and it is shameful.

[@brittlebricks10]

Excellent point

[@darrenlawson4909]

It sounds like they don't put any effort into raising the children at all. All they have seemed to have done is just preaching and drilling their evil beliefs into their heads.

[@LisaKoffler]

Darren Lawson, they're part of Bill Gothard's IBLP cult instead of a REAL church! Bill Gothard makes the rules, and Jim Bob takes "orders" from HIM! Preaching and drilling is NOT uncommon in authoritarian environments, and it's WORSE in cults! What Jim Bob and Michelle did was have more kids than they could handle, and gave them to the older kids to raise! It's called parentification, and it's a form of abuse!

[@agreetodisagree2111]

Too busy cheerfully available🤮

[@DimaRakesah]

It's really about power and control. This system gives all control to the father, then they dress is up to make it sound nice.

[@ellaeadig263]

"having a good relationship with your parents is the foundation to having a happy marriage" I don't have a good relationship with my parents but my marriage is rock solid.

[@goodenoughgirl8102]

IKR. I also think that is so wrong ya know. You can’t follow that “code” if you have an abusive father. I think what these cult leaders are after are making rules that pressure the members to “play sweet.” And by “get along with” they seem to mean that we all do what they want us to do and not think for ourselves and tolerate them controlling and abusing us. Yah. I’m not down for that tho. Plus it’s more or less men being put in a superior position to women, rather than as their human equals. And this garbage also about “defrauding” men. Ugh. 🙄

[@JuliaMarieH]

I would like to add that this mentality is extremely damaging to girls who have experienced sexual abuse. They already feel violated and traumatized, and hearing that they are less valuable to their future husband because of what someone else did to them makes it so much worse.

[@MissTigerLilyRose]

VERY TRUE

[@Antkristyna73]

💯

[@LisaKoffler]

Julia Marie, the IBLP cult is patriarchal, and that's why girls and women are treated so badly! ALL 19 Duggar Kids are scarred for life!

[@cl5470]

It's designed to keep them quiet about the abuse. They're so afraid of being seen as soiled goods that they keep the abuse to themselves. They are also told that they did something to cause it. Purity culture and pedo culture are two sides of the same coin.

[@CG-MP]

several of my friends grew up in the Gothard cult. One said that at Christmas he would always take the young girls to another room to give them gifts and talk to them alone (yikes). She said that once a girl asked about this. She was very afraid of SA, and asked something like "if I follow all of the rules, but it still happens somehow, what then? Am I still pure?" And Gothard just told her that he's never heard of that happening to a girl who'd followed all of his rules. In other words, if you do what I say, God will protect you and you don't have to worry about that. And if it happens anyways, it's because you messed something up. I really hate that man.

[@heatherg9029]

The Duggar family has an unhealthy and destructive mentality surrounding dating and courtship. I understand parents being concerned or intrigued by their children's partners, and sometimes it's for good reasons, but to be so heavily involved and controlling in the relationship crosses boundaries. It's all about control for Jim Bob, that's all he cares about. Good for Jinger for getting out.

[@lightningbug276]

Yes it goes way too far

[@LizRealGirlBeauty]

And the amount of blame they put on girls for the actions of boys is disturbing.

[@runicspyder]

I agree wholeheartedly!

[@cathykrueger4899]

It’s a really creepy obsession with sex. You would think that teenagers and young adults never think about anything but sex. That’s Jim Bob’s projection. Kids can’t even form their own identity if they never have any kind of life out from under the thumb of their parents. Kids can do all kinds of marvelous things together. They sing, they play in the marching band, they put on plays, they belong to academic clubs, they work together on projects, they laugh at themselves and each other. They create memories. They learn to live in the world outside their families. And they DATE. Because dating is normal and fun. They go on group dates, or pair up to meet with others who are dating. I don’t think early sex is a good idea but that can be instilled at home and it doesn’t have to be about archaic ideas like purity. Boys are not at the mercy of girls “ stirring them up.” Girls are not responsible for normal male urges. Teach respect.

[@janishuey3639]

@@cathykrueger4899 agree. I dressed modestly because of the standards my parents set. Those changed over time, although not radically. I also set standards for myself that I wouldn’t have sex before marriage. Did I go outside the lines? Yes. Was I disappointed in myself for doing so? Yes Sons need to be made very aware that it is up to them to keep their relationship pure (establishing agreed-upon boundaries) out of respect for this potential bride and to strengthen his character. The guys need to learn to control their urges, which have little to do with what the girl is wearing.

[@angelclaire100]

Gothard never married (plus we now know he was up to creeptastic behavior) so how he ever perceived himself an authority on this subject to begin with is mystifying. I think his formula makes good sense if you totally disregard real-world challenges and the fact that not all people have pure intentions. There probably are some lucky people it worked out for. I think the biggest concern for me is how you REALLY get to know someone if you are never alone together. Anna is a perfect example of why this isn’t the magic bullet

[@betheecommentator]

I thought the exact same thing. How is he an expert on any of this having not married or had any children. He didn’t even court. So…. You make some great points! Thanks so much for sharing!

[@moustik31]

To be fair, he followed into Paul's, the apostle, footsetps. He also never married but his words are often used to brow beat christian (married) women into submission.

[@betheecommentator]

@@moustik31 that’s a good argument!

[@mackattack701]

​@Daphne_488 true true. But Paul was an apostle who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write those words. Bill Gothard is not, nor is any daddy either.

[@moustik31]

@@mackattack701 It doesnt matter whether he was or not bec. both translation and interpretation have (mis)used his words to actively harm christian women for centuries. Literal centuries. The amount of women in need of healing from all this religious abuse is more than we can fathom. Said harmful consequences of Paul's words far outweigh his intent/inspiration when writing them, IMO.

[@ThanksHermione]

I can't take the name "Jim Bob" seriously.

[@segoleneginibre859]

Can anyone? 😂

[@iaminevitable_]

😂😂😂 sounds like the name of a fictional character in a movie played by Will Ferrel

[@LisaKoffler]

Thanks Hermione, his real name is James Robert!

[@cheeling794]

Jim boob 😂

[@cheeling794]

​@iaminevitlable_ lmao omg it does😂😂😂

[@schiffelers3944]

Avoiding temptations doesn't teach you how to deal with temptations.

[@betheecommentator]

Very good point!

[@iaminevitable_]

It actually makes it more appealing 😅

[@schiffelers3944]

@@iaminevitable_ If you don't learn how to control yourself.

[@alicehong7809]

Wise words.

[@AngelaVEdwards]

Thank you!! I think that whole chaperone thing is ridiculous. You teach your kids the right way but you don’t trust them to follow that teaching while dating? A chaperone means you do not trust your children.

[@anovemberstar]

The idea a father should control his daughters sexualiry is beyond grooss, it's downright creepy AF

[@carmensavu5122]

preach!

[@MissTigerLilyRose]

I agree

[@LisaKoffler]

Queen Bee, I call it malicious cruelty, and it's beyond gross and downright creepy!

[@coopernecole7962]

Yep. My life. Literally 😅 my father is a pastor and it took YEARRRRSSS and he's still telling me when I should get married.

[@LisaKoffler]

Cooper Necole, it's your life, NOT your father's! IF you're in a cult instead of a REAL church, get out NOW!

[@deborabertka1490]

My husband and I waited until we were married to have sex. It was a decision we made because it's what we wanted, it wasn't something that was forced on us. Which to me, makes all the difference. I also made the decision from early on to take dating seriously - that is, the end goal was always to find a spouse. But again, that was my own choosing. I plan on talking to my children about what worked for me and what I think was wise, but I will never shame them or force them to do things the way I did.

[@AFBudgets]

Same

[@mkatal8329]

Same. Dating is about so much more than sex. To me the fear that people will be incapable of restraining themselves and automatically have sex if they are alone puts way too much emphasis on sex. The exact opposite of what they think they're doing.

[@janishuey3639]

@@mkatal8329 I agree, but I still have the sneaking suspicion that Gothard knew just what effect suppression of sex, both thought and deed, would have on young people. Or am I giving that pervert too much credit?

[@LisaKoffler]

Debora Bertka, I'm glad that "the old-fashioned way" agreed with you and your husband, and that you're letting your kids make their own choices! I wish ALL parents were like that!

[@cl5470]

This is how you end up in a dead bedroom. It worked out for you, but for many, they use the "waiting for marriage" excuse to cover up things like being gay or having sexual dysfunction.

[@cmiller415]

“How do you learn about a boy without dating? Ask his sisters.” Really?! If Anna Duggar had asked Josh’s sisters about him would they have told her honestly what they thought about him, his morals, his self control, and his respect for women in general? All of the safeguards that the Duggars put in place to keep Josh in line failed to keep his thoughts pure and his sisters safe.

[@LisaKoffler]

The Duggars are part of the IBLP cult instead of a REAL church! They even used "Covenant Eyes" software, but the filters clearly weren't strong enough! As for Josh, he was BORN "a bad seed," and people like himself can't be helped! He insisted that he married Anna for her "purity," but he's NOT so "pure" himself!

[@ladyv5655]

His sisters were probably forbidden to say anything to Anna about the SA. I'm sure JB wasn't taking any chances after the Kayleigh Holt debacle.

[@FA-dv5he]

I beleive Anna and her parents were aware of the incident that occurred with Josh and his victims. Maybe details weren't clear idk.

[@hottleggs1]

Wow!

[@MaraJadeSkky]

The irony of all this when we know how their oldest son is... they raised a menace to society, yet they see him as the golden son. Meanwhile they shove all this shame, fear, and guilt down their innocent daughters' throats, poisoning their minds and making them hate their natural feelings.

[@kingworm7168]

According to THEIR rules their son shouldnt have been eligible to court and marry Anna. He was promised to another before and he was a sick p0rn obsessed r@pist but they treat him like a gift to earth. 🤮

[@therealz360z7]

That entire religion is disturbing and extremely abusive to all not just the girls .

[@Jaisee14]

Josh ended up the way he is, because his sick twisted father taught him that women are 2nd class ... below a man. When a male child is told that women are property and that all women must be controlled by a male well what did Jim Bob THINK was going to happen. Josh was kept locked up with his siblings all of his life and at some point curiosity about girls and sex was surely going to surface. Josh serving time for what he did as a grown man is warranted as I think he knew better but I don't think he should be serving 12 years. I do believe that in Josh's case he can be rehabilitated. Josh's parents mentally, physically and emotionally destroyed their son. Personally Jim Bob and Michelle should be serving 25 years to life for what they did to their oldest son. Again I am not condoning Josh's behaviour but it's not 100% his fault. Jim Bob and Michelle are perverted deviant @$$holes.

[@jilliansummers1716]

I feel that Anna probably really regretted her courtship more than Jinger….

[@betheecommentator]

I thought it was interesting how in the clip that I inserted, she kind of got tongue tied a bit when she was speaking about her marriage experience. I wish all the best for Anna. I couldn’t imagine being in her shoes

[@Serenityblu23]

From the episodes where they talk about how Josh and Anna met Josh, Isaid noticed her from a home school gathering community. Josh decided to try and talk to Anna, but each time he got close, she ran from him. She was never interested him until her parents tried to get them together. Another not is during their courtship Anna was always shaking when near josh.

[@Juliettemnm69]

As a female human.. I don’t believe we should give 100% of our souls to a man, this should be a partnership not all one sided.. fathers need to learn their kids like mothers should.

[@betheecommentator]

Thanks so much for weighing in!

[@iaminevitable_]

Out of curiosity, why did you call yourself a female human but used the term man?

[@MeganVictoriaKearns]

@@iaminevitable_ Probably just a stylistic choice in her writing. Doubtful it was deeper. But, idk... not my words. 🤷‍♀️

[@Juliettemnm69]

@@iaminevitable_ man and male are the same in my eyes,

[@Juliettemnm69]

@@MeganVictoriaKearns correct not your words, I’m sure you feel differently and that’s ok, you don’t know me and I don’t know you. They are nothing but word’s because you don’t know me just like your emoji is nothing to me! Have a nice one! I know I am!!

[@willowt9196]

I think it is creepy that they are so obsessed with their daughters.

[@alicehong7809]

Agreed.

[@BreeOlson9]

She left the beliefs of one man to follow the beliefs of another; her husband.

[@lifewithklc]

THIS!!! I really wish she was allowed to have the space as an adult to develop her own spirituality without influence.

[@InfoLunix]

Her husband has better beliefs than BG tho...

[@shirleybrewer8921]

I think so too. Write a book, make lots of money. His idea, IMO.

[@laurenmooers1723]

Or maybe she’s grown and her beliefs align with her husband. She even explains how her husband didn’t point out what was wrong with the beliefs she grew up with. He encouraged her to defend these beliefs biblically and she couldn’t. That’s literally the socratic method which is based on engaging critical thinking.

[@tiffanyfinley4834]

I'm curious if the age difference

[@montyollie]

I am an absolute Duggar junkie… I think that’s how I found your channel. So needless to say, I LOVED this video. Your research is amazing, I saw so many clips I’d never seen before, and I thought I’d seen it all!
I was raised in a similar cult to the Duggars. We were taught exactly what they were with regards to sex and relationships. If a boy got an erection, it was our fault and the sin was on your shoulders. Once married, there is no such thing as marital rape, as you give complete and utter everlasting consent the moment you say I do. Women can never say no. I love how Jim Bob is so clueless, he doesn’t even know that HIV is not a death sentence anymore and that HIV doesn’t always turn into AIDS. Sigh. If you are going to believe what the bible says about marriage, it’s very clear… one passage has a man kill 200 enemies and present 200 foreskins to his bride’s father, as a price for her. No, there is no dating in the bible. It’s HIGHLY transactional and women are property.
I’m so pleased Jinger came to her senses. At least on this topic. She still has such a long way to go, but considering her cult upbringing, speaking out is revolutionary.

[@betheecommentator]

I love when we have episodes religion related because I love the discourse it creates for us to discuss different theology, doctrines, etc. I was very conflicted in terms of this topic because there were some points that Gothard/Duggars make as to why courtship is better that made sense. But then I feel like it’s goes too far. I appreciate having standards, and being “choosy” when it comes to life partners etc. however there were several points made that absolutely disagree with. The story that you shared re: marriage being a transaction in the Bible is very interesting. I never looked at it like that but that is so right. Wouldn’t that mean though that technically speaking when it comes to dating being unscriptural that Gothard is right in that regard? I appreciate your continued support and always love to read/hear what you have to say!

[@montyollie]

@@betheecommentator I think in cultures or societies where marriages are transactional and marriage is understood to be your future, whether it's what you want or not (ie some Indian sects where arranged marriages are the norm etc.) it makes sense that your feelings not be involved. And it makes sense that the families be involved and that social class be taken into consideration because that is such a hard hurdle to overcome in love-oriented marriages. All that being said, arranged marriages or courtship type marriages do stand the test of time because marriage is considered serious business and not at all about love or feelings or lust. It's about family units and rearing offspring and generational wealth. I completely understand why some people go down this road. If what you want is that kind of security, you will never find it with a love-marriage, because love fades. But of course... as a free thinking atheist who absolutely LOVES my bodily and spiritual autonomy, I am so so so glad I never had to go through any of that. I'm 50 and single and never married and it's exactly the way I want it. I love my life. I am not the marrying kind. I would have been so so so unhappy in a marriage like that, as a) I am non-binary and can't abide by strict gender expectations and b) I am polyamorous in that I don't think humans can or should have one partner for life. It just sets people up for disappointment. The bible is FULL of polygamy, I'd forgotten about that. LOL So real biblical marriages should be polygamous as well as transactional.

[@betheecommentator]

@@montyollie very interesting points. I’ve seen several studies that indicate that the most successful marriages are arranged marriages. The marriages that are manufactured by parents tend to outlast others. I find that so fascinating. I can definitely see your point and the points you’ve made regarding arranged marriages vs marriage based on love. This is fascinating stuff. Just re-reading your comment and nodding my head along thinking about video ideas and topics we could cover where we talk about the things you addressed in your comment. 😂 Thank you for sharing some personal aspects of your life with me and how this video resonated with you! I’m so happy you for you and that you are living your life the way you see fit!! ❤

[@rosebudadkins6803]

They must control women. It’s a hatred of women. It’s sick. They aren’t man enough for a real woman.

[@mistiroberts1576]

You have no clue what the Bible says about marriage Omgosh 😅😅😅

[@tamaralandreneau8005]

MANY FATHERS TODAY, DON'T EVEN BOTHER, TO TEACH THEIR SONS, TO REMAIN PURE AND NEVER MOLEST YOUR LITTLE SISTERS AND YOUNGER LITTLE BROTHERS.

[@mexiaznann]

As someone who grew up around purity culture & saw my older sister and her youth group read “I kissed dating goodbye”, I can say I absolutely hate the courtship mindset. So many young girls end up in unhappy marriages, and are expected to shut up & respect their husbands. Usually they become young mothers before the age of 25, and while I know they’re grateful for their children, i do believe many have kids & get married out of duty, not because they really want it. Or for young couples, some just want to have sex because of the oppression used in purity culture. I am all about keeping dating age appropriate & having an open dialogue with children about who they’re dating & how they can stay safe, but this is an extreme to that. I am grateful i went to school & didn’t date much in my 20s. Now I’m 30 in a happy relationship who respects me & it doesn’t feel pressured or like there’s always a watchdog over our shoulders. I am still a practicing Christian but left the denomination that preached about Courtship / purity culture. Also - the author of “I kissed dating goodbye” has renounced his book, apologized to the generation of young people who were abused in that system, and no longer calls himself a Christian.

[@LizRealGirlBeauty]

This exact point! Thank you!! I heard that "purity" obsession in JB's talk about STDs too. Like, "if you're not perfect, nobody will love you." If you have sex, if that's a mistake or not, and get an STD, then the person who really loves you will love you no matter what. But to JB, you're the epitome of "damaged goods." And i can't imagine JB really cares about female pleasure, not when the woman has to be "joyfully available." That's all about the husband, not the wife. So what is this married sex life going to look like? They've held it up, but then it ends up being all about the husband's needs and not the wife's. It just sounds depressing!

[@tundrawomansays694]

@@LizRealGirlBeauty Thanks for exposing the ridiculous and frankly dangerous aspect of these “chrissians” They’ve been so mind fu**** they don’t get it-and I surely do NOT blame them, the victims. Please can we use language correctly to identify an object or a human being? Oh, that’s right. They see their loin fruit as extensions of themselves..-What a mess.

[@lluda44]

I don't know what you're talking about, when you say that courtships lead to unhappy marriages. Over half of all marriages end up in divorce. And if I had to guess, I'd say that close to 100% of those divorces began with dating, not courtship. any marriage can turn out to be unhappy. The divorce rate for second marriages is even higher than first marriage. In your comment you seem to be judgemental of purity standards, but as christians, are we not called to purity? Hebrews 13:4 (KJV) Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

[@capnmaee]

@@lluda44 personally, I feel those statistics may be muddled by the fact that, more often than not, divorce is frowned upon in certain religious communities.

[@capnmaee]

@@lluda44 so many could stay unhappy, but stay married, for the sake of their religion and their reputation in their community.

[@briardan9226]

This system apparently worked out well for the Duggar girls. Despite being raised in the IBLP cult, the husbands are pretty open and not controlling. They're involved and supportive. The girls have voices!

[@Krissy331]

The irony of this creep Gothard being unmarried and not having children trying to tell families what to do 😅. Another excellent video, your level of research is amazing 👏🏾.

[@betheecommentator]

Thank you so much for watching! I’m glad you enjoyed this episode. Also, I completely agree with you re: Gothard never being married nor having children yet somehow has the anecdote for marriage and raising children 🤔

[@pamelac.3241]

Man! I didn't know that. That's like teaching someone how to ski that's never even been in snow!

[@LisaKoffler]

It doesn't surprise me that Bill Gothard NEVER married and had kids, because I can't imagine any woman that would want him for a husband and a father!

[@RoyalBlue4486]

Anna’s don’t be feeling the package comment 😂 also, Michelle’s speech pattern is almost identical to Bill Gothard’s.

[@betheecommentator]

Yes it really is isn’t it? Re; Gothards and Michelle speech. The more I listened to him the more I realized how similar he and Michelle sound to one another.

[@jombie243]

I love how you break down the Duggar situation! I hope justice will be served one day, my heart hurts for them 🥺

[@betheecommentator]

Thank you so much, I’m glad you enjoy my channel ❤️

[@erinl1265]

I am not for courtship. I grew up in a Christian home, and I had impossible romantic ideas for my future husband. I never dated anyone if I didn't see myself married to them. I did not go to dances and felt awkward around guys. I thought God would never allow me to marry the wrong person. Unfortunately for me it made me very ill equipped for dating when I finally did get a boyfriend. I was awkward and not prepared. We ended up divorced and I attributed some of this to my lack of experience and naivity. Personally I think dating often is a better choice. You can still be pure and still have standards.

[@AbbaJoy1]

My story exactly. I was very naive, thinking if a person was saved, than anything in his past was changed, instead of seeing it as a warning. But it would have never entered my mind to talk to my parents or anyone else to get advice. I was very ignorant and naive. But I will say in spite of that, God was with me and with my children. They entered marriage much wiser than I and are blessed with strong marriages. I thought Gothard made sense and it would have prevented what happened to me, but the idea of having a part in choosing my son's wives was terrifying. I can't tell you how thankful and thrilled I was when God brought my sons together with their wives.

[@iaminevitable_]

This!!!👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@therealz360z7]

I'm glad your excepting the responsibility of that marriage not working out your not blaming and it takes two.

[@clarebear3391]

I wonder if Anna had of asked Josh’s sisters what he was like, she could have saved herself a awful lot of heartache

[@betheecommentator]

Oooh that’s a good point. But you know, I wonder if she had asked them what he was really like, would they have been honest? I feel like now knowing the brainwashing and coercion that took place, it makes me think that they probably would’ve spoken highly of him and protected him??

[@AbbaJoy1]

@@betheecommentator I'm pretty sure they would have thought he was forgiven and changed, and no need to bring up the past that has been forgiven.

[@betheecommentator]

@@AbbaJoy1 yes I agree, great point

[@clarebear3391]

100% true, since the male’s of this family are held in very high regard.

[@kimberlyarcher5582]

Anna new about what he did to his sisters and the neighbor or cousin whichever it was. She felt he regretted it and learned his lesson.

[@ElenaRose725]

When my husband and I first began dating, we met with our pastor once just to talk and he advised us to make our courtship one that we'd treasure and look back on fondly. I thought that was such a sweet word, courtship. I have no problem with the words dating or courtship, however, with courtship in the IBLP, there is a certain expectation implied that could be very damaging and hurtful. I mean, it's *almost* an engagement but not quite. Also, it's not just the couple whose feelings might get hurt if things don't progress to marriage, it's the families' feelings as well. Waaay too much pressure. Finally, because the courtships in the IBLP tend to be short and there is little privacy and I imagine couples are always on their best behavior, I wonder how well these couples REALLY do know each other before the wedding. It's amazing to me that so many parents would take marriage and parenting advice (really bad advice, imo) from a man who has never been married or fathered children of his own.

[@betheecommentator]

Amazing points! Thank you for sharing!! Agree, agree, agree!!

[@utuberhoda]

Great on Jinger for speaking out as she’s grown, matured, and has gotten away from her parents!!

[@cassie1560]

She hasn't though. She asked her parents to wear pants and move away and what she was going to write about them. She is still afraid of them, es. JB

[@railwaychristina3192]

How a man treats his parents and siblings is how he will treat his wife....yes, Josh..

[@LisaKoffler]

Absolutely! Josh abused Anna and ALL 7 kids!

[@cathynicolette4368]

I guess I fall into somewhere in between. For context I’ve been married 18 years. I would never be in a relationship or go on even one date with someone I wouldn’t consider marrying. I think it is a good idea to be friends before dating. My husband and I knew each other for 5 years before even considering dating each other. We saw how each other treated people we were dating and we saw each other at our best and worst. I feel like you should spend time with each others families but I also am a firm believer that you need privacy in the relationship. There are things you will have to talk about and agree upon before getting married that you won’t want to discuss in front of people. I don’t think you should be forced to wait for your first kiss until you’re at the alter but I don’t think dating necessarily means you are sleeping with him/her either- as a christian, I would hope my kids wait. That’s my two cents, great video.

[@cathynicolette4368]

@@HigherSelfTarot I completely agree that it should be approached with caution and common sense. Unfortunately, it seems like sleeping with someone before marriage is expected and praised. I’m sure it’s not expected or praised for a lot of people (religious or not) but it seems like everything you see in media sure elevates it. I remember in college casually mentioning to someone I hadn’t slept with my boyfriend of about 6 months at the time and she looked at me like I had three heads.

[@carmensavu5122]

Not all people want to get married, nor do all people want the same kind of relationship. Likewise, sex doesn't have the same meaning for all people. Some people need a connection before, others don't. What works for you may not work for others. Why is this so difficult for some people to understand? This whole being friends beforehand thing wouldn't work for me at all. I have a few very close friends, male and female, and I think of them as siblings. The thought of ever having sex with one of them feels very wrong. A romantic partner is not "more than my friend", it's a completely different relationship track. And I have a feeling it's like that for a lot of people. There's a reason people talk about the friendzone. Sure, others have friends with benefits. That's not my thing, but for some it works.

[@basicleighdisney5643]

@@carmensavu5122 On the surface, what you said sounds great. However, it leaves out everything God desires. Sex outside of marriage is a sin, and there is a reason it's a sin. God created it, and He alone designed it to be a form of worship that is a beautiful part of the marriage bond. Done inside the marriage only, He gives blessings that are not given outside of marriage. Sex outside of marriage strips us of blessings and leaves us with consequences that we could end up dealing with for the rest of our lives. We also give a special part of ourselves away each time we have sex with someone we aren't married to that we can't get back. Obviously God gave us free will, but He also gave us direction in what would be the best thing for us and if we do what we want instead of what He wants, we lose so much joy in life and we are never truly fulfilled.

[@fortmacmom3122]

My 18 year old daughter just started dating, her own choice to wait, not mine. All I ask is that she gets to know the boy and takes time to do that. Otherwise her body is her body. And her choice. And I don’t get a vote. Neither does her father.

[@iaminevitable_]

I feel the same, I only ask that they come to me so they can be safe ( birth control )

[@LisaKoffler]

IF I married and had kids, I'd tell them NEVER to be afraid to come to me when they need to! As for dating, I think it's best to wait at least 6 months to a year after meeting someone before even CONSIDERING marrying them!

[@JeanetteeWeaver-zp9tx]

I'm pro purity. My daughter had courtship guidelines as a teen. Her dates were chaperoned. We don't espouse IBLP doctrine. She is happily married with 3 beautiful babies.

[@dawntripp1974]

I’m always so impressed at how well you put together your videos! Thanks again for another great video!

[@betheecommentator]

Wow thank you so much! I didn’t know if you all would like this one, so I’m glad to see that you guys enjoy this episode ❤

[@BreeOlson9]

I have followed the Duggars extremely closely the last few years- amazing job finding so many clips I’ve never seen before. I’m impressed as usual!

[@betheecommentator]

Thank you so much for your continued support. I’m glad you were able to see some new clips! ❤️❤️

[@mrswallace6294]

I admire, respect and love your style of commentating. Keep up the awesome work, Ms. Bee

[@betheecommentator]

I really appreciate this so much!! Thank you 🙏🏽 ❤️🥰

[@lightningbug276]

Don’t be feeling your package 🤦🏻‍♀️ oh poor Anna😂

[@Bigfatuglybabyeatingobrien]

To me this is why any degree of "breaking free" is so important. Even if Jinger is overly dependent on Jeremy she is helping ensure that her daughters won't be in the same situation in their future relationships.

[@merricat3025]

They will be in new cult

[@aileenmccarthy8660]

He doesn’t even get paid for his preaching, he “works” for free, they earn money from HER fame. Her social media, book, speaking engagements, appearances, money from filming the old show, etc....she doesn’t depend on him barely at all, if anything he depends on her, and she makes her her own $

[@Amanda-cn3pk]

If you raise your children with values and morals and lead by example you do not have to micromanage and babysit their every move. Preventing children from growing into their own, and allowing them to make mistakes instead of controlling them out of fear, not only stifles their personalities, but unfortunately leads to immature decision making and ultimately young adults that partake in very risky behavior behind their parents back. Communication is key, and trusting your child is imperative for their growth and development.

[@Cheirosa81]

Well said!

[@RevolutionUtena]

I've never watched the Duggar show(s) and I appreciate how you lay out information even for those of us that don't have all the background knowledge!

[@betheecommentator]

I appreciate that so much!! Thank you!

[@itsdekontee7950]

Me personally I’m not taking advice from people who believe women don’t need to further their education

[@LisaKoffler]

The IBLP cult doesn't allow college or even military service! It's sickening!

[@temilouwho1320]

Thank you for having the best channel on KZbin! You are truly a gem! 🙂

[@betheecommentator]

Awww thank you my dear ❤️❤️

[@deborabertka1490]

I'm glad you're speaking about this. I've been following Jinger's journey and this is so important!

[@betheecommentator]

I agree, I thought it was also pretty mature of her to acknowledge that this “courtship” system may have some flaws and that her advice to so many young girls at that time was probably damaging.

[@Zeroistootired]

So Anna couldn’t feel her “package” but everyone was fine with him feeling what he deemed were his “packages”???!!!??? His own sisters?? Everyone that helped hide his disgusting deviant behavior… including Anna should be in jail as well!! i don’t understand why she is so positive Josh wouldn’t harm their children!!

[@themodernhippy8946]

I think one thing we often forget is she was not the first to leave Gothard teachings. In a way, she has been very fortunate to not loose most or all her family like Jill has. This maybe do to the differences in their husband's, but it's sad to see Jill tossed aside as such a bad influence that she can't be around her siblings (even the married obes) without her father's consent. I don't know if now that Jinger spoke out it will be the same or not. I just find the contrast to be, this far, vastly different.

[@betheecommentator]

That’s true. I’m hoping Jill comes out with a book or shares more of her experience and why she has distanced herself from that particular ideology. I would love to hear from Jill.

[@themodernhippy8946]

@@betheecommentator I would as well. There have been teasers that they might, but nothing I have seen coming up yet.

[@barryvanwert7165]

Her and her husband also spoke out about Jim Bob not just left his cult.

[@bippityboppityboo5963]

Great job as usual Be. Thanks for the video!

[@betheecommentator]

Thank you!! So glad you enjoyed it ❤

[@lovesanimalshatesrats6339]

This was so good! More Duggar stuff!

[@ashmb2]

I love how you mix in the sound bites with archive stock footage from around that period of time or a similar situation to illustrate what something could look like. But if you can only listen, your format still works very well! Appreciate your research skills, every video is pretty much a fully formed thesis paper! Either you learned well in college or you just have a natural talent for it, anyway love your videos for being a great way to understand current pop culture without having to run all over the internet to find everything you presented.

[@betheecommentator]

Oh wow thank you so much for your feedback! I’m so glad you enjoy my format and presentation. This was actually just a hobby that I started because I couldn’t really find the content that I wanted to watch, so I figured why not just do it myself. Again, I’m so glad you enjoy my content and format!! ❤️❤️

[@pentothalic]

comment for the algorithm, and thanks for always giving credit to your sources. it's a small thing, just a tiny tasteful bit of text in the corner, but it shows how much integrity you have

[@betheecommentator]

Oh my thank you SO much!!! Genuinely blushing right now!! Thank you ☺️ ❤️

[@mctron22rd]

This is one of the best Deep dives i have watched on YT. I was never into the Duggar's show but i have heard about them. Everywhere i went to get information about the family was not hard to find. But it did not explain as well as this documentry. I was so happy to find out things about their religion that i did not understand before, but i know now! Thank you this was amay!

[@betheecommentator]

Wow thank you so much for watching! I’m glad you found it informative and insightful! ❤

[@kaiaballobey4239]

Thank you for sharing this

[@TheEmew1978]

So Gotthard said if you really want to know a man just ask his sisters...... wow, so Anna should of asked all those girls about Josh and they would of said he molested them and that could of saved her? Lol this hypocrisy from Josh and his teaching are crazy. Josh and his parents defrauded Anna and her family

[@betheecommentator]

Wow didn’t even connect the dots like that. You’re right. According to Gothard she should’ve asked his sisters, the very sisters he harmed. Messed up.

[@TheEmew1978]

@@betheecommentator I was shocked when I heard him preaching that. Like the hypocrisy from Josh and his parents knowing what they were following and what he did is disturbing

[@LisaKoffler]

Erin Williamson, the Duggars "defrauded" the world! Being part of Bill Gothard's IBLP cult instead of a real church was how they did that!

[@SarahSoLovelyXo]

I can 100% see why people thought courtship was a good idea after seeing the Duggar family do it. At about the same time as the Duggar's were on the air, 16 & pregnant was also on tv. I can see parents going to extremes, and maybe some people consider courting to be extreme, to keep their child from becoming pregnant or getting someone pregnant.

[@betheecommentator]

That’s a good point and I believe you’re right with 16 & Pregnant/Teen Mom premiering around that time

[@cl5470]

Meanwhile, in reality, teen pregnancy rates have never been lower. Education prevents teen pregnancy, not purity.

[@cynthiaberry2019]

I appreciate your accurate, in depth and yet respectful reporting.

[@maureencimochowski824]

Well done, thank you!

[@ErinFindsHerWay]

It’s pretty interesting that Bill Gothard preaches so much about marriage, courting, and raising kids, but he never married or had a kid. My guess is he’s against dating because he failed miserably at it.

[@pamelac.3241]

Hahahha

[@ErinFindsHerWay]

@@pamelac.3241 No, it’s the same reason he probably assaulted girls and came up with the “blame the victim” narrative. It’s sick and twisted, but it created monsters.

[@LisaKoffler]

Erin Hudson, I think Bill Gothard was BORN "a bad seed," like Josh was, along with having a miserable life of his own! The fact that he NEVER married and had kids doesn't surprise me, because I can't imagine any woman that would want him for a husband and a father!

[@ErinFindsHerWay]

@@LisaKoffler I also think he’s arrogant enough to believe he’s above the law and decency.

[@LisaKoffler]

Erin Hudson, NO ONE - not even the President of the United States - is above the law! Sadly, Donald Trump is learning that lesson the hard way!

[@JDLbased]

Jinger is evolving and it's gorgeous to see

[@onwednesdayswewearpink2761]

You do such a good job on these videos. Netflix needs to hire you

[@moustik31]

I'm absolutely against courtship bec. it's an extension of purity culture, which is extremely toxic and harmful to young men and women. Edit: it disgusts me how the Duggars parents used their eldest daughters to peddle all this bs knowing how they allowed their son to be sexually abusive to them. The math isnt adding up: according to their own standards, Josh was never fit to be courting but did they care?!

[@LisaKoffler]

Daphe_488, the Duggars are part of Bill Gothard's IBLP cult instead of a REAL church! I absolutely agree with you that "purity culture" is not only extremely toxic and harmful, but it's also absolutely disgusting! Josh was BORN "a bad seed," so he was never fit to be married with kids, but his parents had the misguided idea that marriage would "cure" his bad behavior! Thankfully, he's now in prison where he belongs!

[@taracat7723]

Not everyone wants to get married right away or at all. Dating is up to the individual. Dating can mean many things to many people. It's a freedom all should have.

[@LisaKoffler]

Absolutely! "Rushing" relationships is NOT smart, and being friends first before becoming serious is the best way to go, because if you're going to spend the rest of your life with someone, the two of you need to be able to get along!

[@melinehhacopians1184]

Yay! 🎉 thank you for gifting us with a BEE post! Happy day!

[@betheecommentator]

You’re welcome love 💕 I hope you enjoy it and enjoy your day!! ❤️❤️

[@bluecookie9al]

Gosh, I just found your Channel and I and binge watching ALL your videos. Amazing commentator and videos

[@betheecommentator]

Really?! Wow thank you! So glad you found my channel and enjoy my content and format ❤️❤️

[@eileenbauer4601]

Thank you again Bee. I used to be a faithful watcher of everything Duggar in their heyday. I read Jinger’s new book with interest. As always, I appreciate that you let the subjects of your documentary speak for themselves, and that you “show” and don’t “tell”. Looking forward to your next project.

[@betheecommentator]

Thank you so much for all your amazing support, feedback, compliments and love! I really appreciate you and am so glad you like my format. I love what you said at the end! “Show, don’t tell”. Could I ever use it one day as a slogan??! 😊❤️

[@eileenbauer4601]

@@betheecommentator Sure. I heard it once I think in a poetry writing course “show don’t tell”.

[@danniellemason8388]

i have never asked my father to go out with a boyfriend

[@Bigbaymonstermare]

Woohoo! A new video. As always it’s amazing, you’re amazing and I will never get tired of telling you how awesome you and your content is!

[@betheecommentator]

Awww thank you thank you thank you ☺️ ❤️ you are amazing and so kind, thank you!!

[@Bigbaymonstermare]

@@betheecommentator I know I say that on almost every video but it’s the only way I can tell you and show you how much I appreciate the content! I dont know if I’ve said, but I struggle with Ehlers-Danlos, and it means I have constant chronic pain, lots of bruising, dislocations and broken bones. For instance, I slipped on ice about 2 1/2 months ago and landed on my knee. They couldn’t decide if the crack they saw was just me or a broken patella (I was sure it wasn’t broken), but I injure so easily, my knee got three times the size, I had an abrasion that is still healing (we EDS people tend to heal slowly and scar easily) and I burst the bursa in my knee, so I had bad inflammation and bursitis. I spent the first two days in a lot of pain and had heat and ice and then I started rewatching your videos. You helped me through a tough time, when my horse was sound and I was trying to start to get her fit, but instead I couldn’t walk. I followed that up by bending the wrong way and ended up with severe muscle spasms in my back tbat the second I turned towards the left, no matter if I turned back immediately, my muscles would lock and squeeze so painfully, that I would literally cry out and it was more painful than my 50 hours of unmedicated labour with my son. Luckily I have pain killers for my daily chronic pain and they prescribed a strong muscle relaxant and I spent the next few days in a haze, but again, I was able to pick up where I left off and distract myself with your channel and münecat’s channel. So I owe you a hug and a big thank you for seeing me though even if you didn’t know it.❤️

[@betheecommentator]

@@Bigbaymonstermare oh wow! You’ve never shared this with me before and I’m so grateful and appreciative that you did and that my channel and content was has been a source of comfort when you needed it. I too, suffer from a chronic illness and it’s so refreshing to cross paths with others that relate. Just do you know, your comments are always so comforting and encouraging! Virtual hug and I hope you have a wonderful weekend ❤️❤️

[@Bigbaymonstermare]

@@betheecommentator you too!! ❤️❤️

[@kathrynmarie412]

Thank you for such a perfect Friday gift! I will never get enough of your videos, especially the ones where we all can look back and learn from the Duggar Family. As always, thank you for your incredibly well thought through documentaries, and for allowing the clips you find to speak for themselves. Your format is so unique, and I think we all take away something different from each piece. Blessings to you, Bee!

[@betheecommentator]

Also thank you SO much for your tip and support, I am so grateful and appreciative ❤️

[@ladyv5655]

Gotthard has been a bachelor all his life. What does he know about the key to a healthy, happy marriage?

[@LisaKoffler]

NOTHING!

[@lemonlime8589]

Thank you, Be, for your unbiased and thorough research on this! To answer your question, my belief is that while I agree that open communication between teenager and his/her parents are vital during the dating phase, that free agency is also equally as important. With Gothard's framework of courting, there is virtually no room for the kid making his or her own choices and that can often lead to sneaking around or unbalanced shame!

[@mycatsdrivemecrazy]

Ms. B glad to have been able to watch. Your star continues to shine ✨ 😊

[@betheecommentator]

Thank you so much love!! I appreciate you ❤❤

[@teamcougars]

Those rules are exhausting 😢

[@LisaKoffler]

You mean abusive!

[@NS.Katz5541]

Anyone who was raised in the keep sweet and modest dressing by wearing dresses sounds sweet but let's face it once you get married you learn wearing that dress means you are willing at any time any moment & anywhere to fulfill your duties to your husband & being in a dress makes it easy for the man plain and simple!

[@Jess-ul5yx]

great video per usual!

[@betheecommentator]

I appreciate it so much! Thanks for watching ❤️

[@carismap6151]

you need so many more subscribers and views all of your videos are amazing and i can tell that you put so much work into them ❤️

[@betheecommentator]

Aww thank you so much!! Sorry for responding so late, I just saw this ❤

[@shaleeandrews6560]

As a woman raised in this viewpoint of purity, it was destructive and super damaging and dangerous. Especially after I experienced the unspeakable by the hands of a guy in our church. I was condemned and unpure. I thought my life was over. Sex is bad. And It was all my fault. I was wearing a long sleaved shirt that came up to my collar bones and long loose jeans and vans. And yet I could have been dressed more pure and maybe it wouldn't have happened. It was all my fault. No blame on him. This is sick and DANGEROUS!! I soon tried to unalive because I thought my life was over....

[@tiamarie1226]

I'm so sorry

[@LisaKoffler]

Shalee Andrews, the IBLP cult is FAKE Christianity! ALL cults are dangerous, and MOST of them are patriarchal, and that's why girls and women are treated so badly! I'm SO sorry that you tried to commit suicide, and I hope you got therapy after getting out of that terrible situation!

[@lilangelfarm174]

I was homeschooled and for 3-4yrs we used the iblp curriculum. We were Christian and my parents had heard of it and decided to try it. The difference is my parents were normal and not crazy cult leaders! We were normal Christian’s not the digger type who dive head first into raising kids sheltered from the world where they are the end all be all authority for the kids. We were enrolled in sports and other activities and were not only allowed but encouraged to hang out with kids who were not Christian. Why? Because my parents firmly believed God wants us to be around the “lost” to set an example! The duggers only allowed their kids around others who reenforce their beliefs instead of question them. The families we knew who were similar to the duggers now do not consider themselves Christian because the parents ruined the religion for them! My parents said it doesn’t matter if we call it dating of courtship what matters is we should be single if not ready for marriage and of course avoid sleeping around. That mindset worked because I found the love of my life and have been married for 20yrs! My mom was actually talking about the duggers and iblp not long ago and she said they didn’t want kids, they wanted perfect obedient offspring to prove they are the best!

[@RosilindJukic]

Ot is the same story with us. One of the first 100 pilot families in ATI, but my parents were normal, didn't drink the kool-aid. They chewed the meat and spit out the bones until there were more bines than meat.

[@cindyd2963]

Excellent video. You always do good work.

[@betheecommentator]

I appreciate you! Thank you

[@janet6763]

First time watcher here-just found you. I agree with some of your other commentators about your style & presentation. I was very impressed. Great work! Thank you.

[@betheecommentator]

Welcome to my channel! I’m glad you enjoyed the video and I truly appreciate your feedback ❤️

[@shirleybrewer8921]

When I watched their weddings, knowing it was a first kiss, I felt like I was watching something too intimate for public view. What if the husband would get very aroused with that kiss, it could be very embarrassing. Jessa and Ben did not kiss in public, they shared it privately. I admired that. But, I don’t understand why a kiss would not be ok when engaged! A proposal with no kiss was weird!

[@michellew9240]

But what if you are already married and you read romance novels? What will happen to me?! :D

[@betheecommentator]

Maybe we’ll develop too many expectations?! 🤣🤣

[@AbbaJoy1]

I had a friend who said the Christian romance novels were causing her to complain about her husband because of unrealistic comparison with the perfect man. I don't know if all Christian romance novels are like this. She was talking about a particular author. But I've wondered if it wouldn't help people to set the bar high.

[@Littleangel_-jp4xb]

part of it depends on what type you're reading. If it's graphic or smutty, absolutely not. That's a spirit of lust. It's just as bad as the husband reading Playboy. Be careful not to create an imagined standard of intimacy and trust with anything/anyone that isn't your husband. Also, if you turn to those books during rough or lonely patches in your own marriage as opposed to working through the issues with your husband, it's time to be rid of them. The Song of Solomon in the Bible is a great love story. And it's scripture.

[@rainbowgirlism]

@@AbbaJoy1 probably Jeannette Oke

[@AbbaJoy1]

@@rainbowgirlism bingo! I read very little Christian romance. Since you guessed, do you know if other authors are not like that? I had read the first book and at least one more. There were a few things I didn't like, so when she said that I didn't read anymore myself. I remember when the little girl (Missy?) grew up, she was pursued by what I think was a stable young man and a wise guy. The question was who she would choose. Then the wise guy came to her classroom when she was alone and helped her open the window in an ungentlemanly manner, reaching both arms around her. She was physically attracted to him, and that was that. I think he was a good husband, so the wise guy won, and it was made to seem like a good choice. Maybe that was the only problems (aside from stereotyping an overweight woman as lazy, gossipy, and always eating). Years later, I was in a different teaching position, and my classroom had a lot of her books. I removed them and another author whose writing I disliked for a different reason. Then I brought in my biographies. I am hesitant now to use much fiction. I'm sure there are good, uplifting authors, but I can't read everything to determine who. ('Love the Thoene's!)

[@kelleennordquist5697]

Excellent video...THANK YOU

[@betheecommentator]

You’re welcome! Thanks so much for watching!

[@ashleecantu6470]

Top notch as always. Just meticulously well done. I would LOVE to see you do segments on our government, specifically in regard to the corruption and it's many sources. You have a unique talent of objectively laying out facts that leads to a better understanding of the bigger picture of which so many people desperately need an education. I'm not encouraging you to push any agenda. By all means, tell it all.

[@BlueBelle277]

I think there’s good elements and bad elements of this I’m Catholic and wanted to wait till marriage so me and my then bf set boundaries but I would find it weird for my dad to prompt the guy I date with a questionaire 😂 I think it’s the responsibility of the couple to keep themselves accountable not the parents that would make them way too involved in the relationship

[@betheecommentator]

I agree, I’ll certain aspects that I think are good and then it seems like it goes too far. Your comment has some great points and is very fair! Thanks for sharing

[@susiesantino5625]

I agree! There is bad elements and good elements of Duggars kind of courtship.

[@thrivingexjw2061]

I was raised in a cult, much like the Duggers. When I listen to the girls speak, it sounds so rehearsed, like it’s been crammed into their brains… not their own thoughts, but the teachings of a man made religion. My husband & I were not allowed to “date”. I was 17 & he 19 when we were married. ( The elders “thought” it was only a matter of time before we committed fornication, so they recommended marriage ( off to Reno we went to marry) It lasted 45 years.. BUT.. I always wondered who we would’ve picked as life partners had we been allowed to date! I was positive that I was not “the one” he would’ve chosen, and that’s a sad way to spend your life & also sad for him!! These religions can really mess up peoples lives.. if truth be told 🥴😓

[@moustik31]

Wow, this is heartbreaking but I can say, I saw this happens irl in my parents' church as well. I'm so happy, that Millenial fundie are not as adverse to divorce as the previous generations.

[@thrivingexjw2061]

@@moustik31 - I was married in the early 1970’s ( divorce wasn’t allowed) .. left the cult when I was 40. My husband passed away 8 years ago. I always knew I wasn’t his “chosen” one, although we made it work for the sake of our kids! Probably harder on him then me. I no longer am a fan of religions, but more of Christ & Christ alone! Leaving a cult & Deprogramming is a very long journey, sometimes lifelong! Developing critical thinking skills is tough. I’ve seen many ex cult members go from one man made religion to another man made religion before finally becoming free. Jinger is just in the beginning phase.

[@LisaKoffler]

Thriving Ex JW, the IBLP cult is FAKE Christianity! It's sad when people are born and raised in environments that don't "allow" them to have ANY say on who to marry! After 45 years, I just hope the two of you are happy!

[@JoyBouter]

You're a great commentator - very concise and clear.

[@betheecommentator]

I appreciate this so much! Thank you

[@lukesebastin2237]

Can you please make a video on Mischa Barton? I recently subscribed to your channel and I'm really impressed with your research and presentation. I hope you can share some light on the injustices that she faced. Thank you.

[@betheecommentator]

Absolutely! Mischa has a very interesting story. I’d be happy to do it. Thanks for the suggestion as well as your support!

[@AprilLaRae]

What a weird “alert” Jim Bob got on his phone that was about std’s 🤨

[@betheecommentator]

I have to say I thought that was strange too, what’re the odds he got some random “alert” about that 🤣

[@Thufferinthuckotash]

Hahahaha 😂😂

[@nmikloiche]

I really can’t imagine marrying the first person I seriously dated. I was such a kid at the time and had zero real life experience. I’m so glad I had the chance to grow up, go to college, live on my own, make my own friends, and date a handful of people. When I did meet my forever spouse, I knew it right away, but I can only say that because I really knew myself and I knew this person just fit me like a glove. We’re still together and this year will celebrate 22 years of life and live together.

[@LovetteKourt]

I AGREE WITH YOU SISITER.. same here!

[@melissalourdeau9964]

The old KXLY Spokane news clip of the babies threw me for a loop. I’m from that area you never see Spokane on videos 😂 …New subscriber here you do a great job being thorough.

[@betheecommentator]

Wow I appreciate it! Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed the episode

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

I think Jana remaining single is a passive-aggressive move! By Dogger standards she should be married by now with at least a couple kids!

[@Nicolesid1]

Courtship is flawed in so many ways from the lack of really knowing a person, to the fact the girl is little more than an object her father (maybe parents) owns and controls. Furthermore, it promotes misogyny, sexism, and fails both in the relationship as they will have no real time to know to know the PERSON they are with and these couples are expected to stay NOT MATTER WHAT. In this case, if they divorce they will never be able to marry again. I agree getting to know a person with those around them, whether it is family or just friends, really is important, but this too can be faked. How often do we hear about a person "changing" after married?

[@runicspyder]

As a survivor of fundamentalism, because in my opinion from evidence I have seen it is very abusive, I would like to say that this whole things sees women and afab people as property and not living, breathing, human beings. And makes men and boys out to be creeps who cant control themselves instead of living, breathing, human beings in control of their own actions. I am so glad my Dad isnt more focused on some insane idea like purity and cares more about what is right for my bf and I (he lets us set our own boundaries, lets us figure things out and my Mom is the same way). These fathers seem to view their children as commodities and it makes me honestly feel sick. Pledging your virginity to your father is borderline incest. Courtships dont really work for everyone. But the way the duggars do it is crazy 😮. Made the mistake of being with a baptist in highschool and... yeah he was leaning towards abusive. My current bf of 11 years and counting is an athiest❤

[@janel.8921]

The white dresses and the rings remind me of weddings. It looks like the girls are marrying their fathers.

[@runicspyder]

@@janel.8921 exactly!

[@schiffelers3944]

True, fundamentalism is an extremer form of religious beliefs, more radical. Thus more prone to these abuses. And true it goes both ways, it messes with the psyche of the girls and boys. Happy you found a loving relationship, not sure him being atheist has something to do with it... or just a happy coincidence. I also know atheists relationships that aren't healthy ones.

[@runicspyder]

@schiffelers3944 him being an athiest is to highlight my christian ex was abusive and how athiests are maligned as the bad guys when extremist christians are the actual bad guys. Fundamentalism needs to be reformed or destroyed tbh.

[@LisaKoffler]

Schiffelers, I learned that cults are "offshoots" are REAL religious faiths! Bill Gothard founded his IBLP cult, and it's called FAKE Christianity! WHY anyone would think that cults are acceptable is beyond human imagination!

[@theresagraham9309]

I can not believe I have sat here & listen to this Bill Whoever for almost 20 minutes,,, this man has a reckoning coming. With his smug attitude, & know it ALL speech,, i call bs on 90% of what I've heard,,,cant tolerate another minute,,, 'Let GOD Judge Me',,,❤

[@cancerwarrior9819]

You have the Most calming and relaxing Voice ❤️

[@betheecommentator]

Awww thank you so much! ❤️❤️

[@gertibell]

I get some people wait for the sexual part of a relationship, but the kissing part is important. If you are at least doing that you can get past the "lovey dovey/ lustful" stage & get to the real love after that wears off. Plus, they need to have private conversations to really get to know someone. I know the parents had their phones connected to the kids phones so they could supervise every word. It was too intrusive.

[@carmensavu5122]

Imagine your first kiss being in front of your entire family and wedding party. I mean, talk about the stuff of nightmares.

[@shanasheinfeld6006]

7:44 Jim Bob is really freaking me out in this clip. It looks like he’s either standing there with his eyes closed, absorbing Michelle’s word like a deity feeding off prayer or praise to him; or he’s looking down at her, silently monitoring every word that comes out of Michelle’s mouth, and nodding in praise that she said the correct thing. Either way, he’s giving off ownership vibes and it’s making me uncomfy. For a family that tout their humility, they have a lot of pride.

[@thelanguageofthebirds]

I noticed that. Creepy entity indeed

[@janel.8921]

I’ve noticed that too. He’s making sure that she saying the thing. When he’s talking, she looks up adoringly at him.

[@sararao8429]

Anna is a trip during her speech

[@pibarrante6901]

Jinger is drop dead GORGEOUS

[@schiffelers3944]

Kissing is part of our biological system of checking if our mates are genetically compatible with us... now imagine eliminating this until after marriage... Their control issues, and order issues are OCD disturbance levels high. They are a little bit mentally disturbed.

[@LisaKoffler]

They're MORE than "a little bit mentally disturbed," they're abused and brainwashed by the IBLP cult! Control is what cults do best, and NOT being "allowed" to be normal causes high OCD disturbance levels in MORE ways than one!