Bethesda's Dwindling Goodwill...

[@BellularNews]

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[@fatfefe33]

yeah nordvpn is the worse shit i ever saw,,, not even working@@Jan12700

[@AlexanderTheGoodEnough]

"your feedback is wrong". lol...sorta get it. I've been quoted saying 'The customer is ALWAYS RIGHT, but SELDOM CORRECT." this is exactly that, except i'm the fucking customer now. how ironic? Haven't given Bethesda a single penny since Skyrim was released, oh so many many years ago. I'm right, they suck as a company. Is it objectively "correct" to say so? Maybe not, but I don't care anymore. I care more about where my money goes and their products just aren't worth buying. So that's, that. Washing my hands of them and walking away forever, because I don't trust them to make The Elder Scrolls 6 something worth playing. Which WOULD be something I might have looked forward to once.

[@TremereTT]

A customer complaining to you is the most valuable service a customer can deliver. This customer gave you a chance to fix your product , while other customers might have never let you know but told their friends and family to avoid that product, without you ever knowing.

[@AlexanderTheGoodEnough]

@@TremereTT disagree there. Complaints tend to be more personal rather than objective (how could it be? The customer doesn't know all the logistics of supplying that service, they just know how "dissatisfied" they are). Why I stand by the saying: the customer is always "right" but seldom "correct".

[@elgindor]

It’s funny that the dev has to tell you outside the game why their game is good. The game sucks if it can’t speak for itself.

[@ectothermic]

I left a review for a game called Afterimage. In it, I listed out a bunch of QoL stuff that was necessary for the type of game that is (Metroidvania) and some issues I had with the controls, the initial loading screen, etc. It was in a concise list and the Dev responded to me with their plans to fix or improve those aspects. As they went along fixing them I updated my review by scratching off the issues I had and listing when it was fixed and how things work now. The review was never Negative because I liked the game to start with, but the fact that they engaged and took criticism so seriously made me want to update things to make sure people got the right idea.

[@coryjohnson2486]

Dang.. I wish ALL reviews would be pure like this!!

[@Constellasian]

My Steam review was among those Bethesda responded to. I pointed out all the flaws with Starfield including the disappointing exploration, tons of loading screens, and generic gameplay mechanics. My review had quite a few comments calling me a Sony fanboy and accusations of not playing "long enough". This was despite me saying I played for nearly 100 hours before making the review. In fact, my Steam profile shows I played Starfield for 112 hours.

[@Tomo_mo]

Meh still better than being called out because you leave a negative review after buying the game and that you shouldnt have bought the game in the first place if you didnt enjoy it. Some people are just brain dead man.

[@Aughtel]

o7

[@scootza1]

​@@Aggrobiscuit"bethesdrones" This is a derogatory term for bethesda simps, well done

[@mellowdarkness3344]

Someone called you a Sony fanboy on steam? Bro, what are people smoking

[@kaydee66781]

@@AggrobiscuitMore like “Todd Cultists” IMO

[@nastysoda9212]

Games on steam like Mad Max, which "game journalists" hated on and gave terrible scores, but steam reviews give 91%, a very positive. Is why I trust in steam reviews. Mad Max was one of my favorite games. If corporations get in there and start screwing it up, that's going to really suck.

[@andromidius]

If that game with all about the vehicle combat it would have been a perfect game. Mad Max's only failing was the ground combat was generic - not bad, but pretty forgettable. The car combat? Amazing.

[@ugolattanzio9152]

​@@andromidiusgeneric infantry combat? Bro you all praised the Arkham trilogy for its combat. This one is just more satisfying

[@krasykay2294]

Mad max was amazing, even the ground combat was visceral.

[@mikeemmons1079]

I keep meaning to pick that game up when it goes on sale. Looks like a stupid amount of fun.

[@KainYusanagi]

@@ugolattanzio9152 There's a lot more to the Arkham games, and it doesn't have the abominable queuestacking problem Mad Max does, since it sticks too hard to the first pressed button for the queue, instead of replacing it with the last-pressed button.

[@DigitalApex]

Customers: You're bad at making games. Bethesda: No, you're just bad at enjoying them. Clown world.

[@icecoldpolitics8890]

The only good response would be to say sorry you feel that way or nothing at all.

[@vida2559]

Why would they care ? the community going to make the game playable with mods anyway.

[@thacoolest13]

@@vida2559 Not if bethesda doesn't make it easier to mod. The modding scene is dead right now because bethesda made it infinitely harder then skyrim and I'm not just talking about the toolkit

[@playtesting2317]

@@vida2559 yeah that will be about 7-10 years down the line. It is only recently that FO4 started to have major content mods deployed instead of weapon replacermods (cause no one liked the weapon designs in FO4) or titty mods.

[@badman5852]

I just sell food. I wouldn't tell a customer they were eating it wrong. I would try to bring them back. Give us another chance. Maybe a free meal. Never a middle finger unless it was over and over.

[@MoreImbaThanYou]

Thats what we get from constant use of the phrase "Developing video games is hard". It became part of developer-identity, used as a shield against criticism.

[@stryletz]

It is true though. Video Game development is hard work, and that hard work can result in a shit game.

[@MoreImbaThanYou]

@@stryletz Never doubted that it's true. Just wanted to point out that it gets brought up way too much as a shield against criticism.

[@thatguythere6161]

It's undeniable that developers work hard. The thing is, working hard doesn't guarantee a good game, and if the game isn't fun, no one is obligated to play it.

[@MoreImbaThanYou]

@@thatguythere6161 To be fair, "work hard" is pretty much the same thing to me. A phrase people like to either hide behind from criticism, or dress up their criticism with, based on the questionable assumption that "hard work" is a virtue within itself. But that's just an off-topic rant from my side. You are obviously right, they can not expect people to eat shit and ask for seconds.

[@Trendkilla]

Making games is expensive is the one that gets me. Never been a wider variety in tools available, never been a larger talent pool to draw from and lastly never been a bigger market of potential customers to buy the product.

[@Mushroomancer]

A dev should never tell the player what to think. If your players think your planets are boring, you failed as a game designer. Simple as that.

[@B0nd3n]

yeah like if i land on a planet and have to go through several loading screens to land on an empty planet to do nothing, and you cant even explore the whole planet, then yes its boring specially since you have to do tthe same thing on the next planet and that planet might be empty too .

[@evandaymon8303]

Not just that but you also fail as a leader because executives may be one telling them to say things like that

[@JayMaverick]

But it was designed to be boring. *pikachuface*

[@kezia8027]

No no, you don't understand! You're just playing the game wrong! Those quiet empty patches are there to make you reflect on the vast emptiness of space! Those bugs are there to remind you that the universe of full of unexpected and wonderful surprises! Those non-functional planets are there to help set the mood and tone for one of the most ambitious RPG games in history! 🤢🤢🤢🤢 nearly threw up even pretending

[@Cho0c0]

​@@reedk2402 you my friend had a twitter moment

[@beanywalrus00]

“When the astronauts went to the moon, they only found rocks. They certainly weren’t bored.” I’m also certain they didn’t go through a load screen to deliver them to the moon and were actually physically exploring an astrological object for the first time in history.

[@schrodingerscat3741]

Also, like, the astronauts could actually DO things with those rocks. And it was exactly what they were expecting, even!

[@ContinuumSpanner]

I could accept that answer if I was playing Kerbal Space Program instead of a Sci fi action game.

[@Nahan_Boker94]

And they forgot, they are making games for mainstream media that doesnt obsess about space explorations also. They aren't making simulators. They shoot themselves in the foot with this statement.

[@SelectKiko]

We stopped going to the moon

[@angelarch5352]

I like rocks!... but I don't play video games to find rocks,

[@peterd9698]

Reviews don’t just reflect the game, but also whether it has been targeted at the right audience. I haven’t played Portal 2 but I imagine that is why it has such good reviews. The people who wouldn’t like it were not deceived into trying it.

[@davidm.schreckii1426]

This was a really well put statement. Righto

[@artman40]

I agree here. If you look at a lot of games with overhwhelmingly positive reviews, they're often made for a bit more niche audience. This is especially noticeable with hidden object games.

[@TheHuffur]

I agree but this is also why I think its stupid that Starfield is getting bad reviews. Its a Bethesda open world game, what did everyone expect when they bought it? not a Bethesda open world game? Giving Starfield negative reviews is basically saying you think the game is a 4/10, maybe 5/10 or lower which unfortunately means that yeah you are wrong, not for thinking its a bad game but clearly not knowing what you were buying and then blaming the game for it. The game is easily a 6/10 or 7/10 and anyone that disagrees simply has to point to another similar FPS open world sci-fi RPG game that does it so much better that you are using as a comparison. Starfield is absolutely not GOTY and it has plenty of issues, like any previous Bethesda open world games, but its not a bad game.

[@Gigusx]

I don't think the reviews necessarily reflect the game. It's only a theory, but I imagine the pain threshold is a lot lower for somebody to post a negative review than the... joy threshold (lol) for somebody to post a positive review. When you look at business reviews, upset people will have a lot more reason to post a negative review than somebody who enjoyed their experience (and who will more likely just go about their day) - why would it be any different for games? I.e. the rating bias will be mostly towards generally negative reviews and then slightly towards absolutely amazing ones. There's also something about to say about people generally thinking in extremes, very few experiences can - and often do - completely sway the review towards one or the other side. As for your second point, the marketing can very much mess up the reviews if you end up overselling your game or advertising to the wrong audience as you mentioned, but I also like to think of Cyberpunk as an example, which wasn't that heavily advertised but it didn't stop people from hyping themselves into oblivion and in the end being disappointed as hell because the game was launched with bugs. The bugs were eventually fixed and the game ratings improved by a lot, but it still shows that a lot can be outside the dev's control. I didn't follow Bethesda's marketing and how much of that happened here, but I imagine they put more "effort" into hyping the game themselves?

[@Looknook1]

​@@TheHuffurStarfeild has a 70ish percent rating on Steam right now which puts it right on track with your 6/10 to 7/10 rating.

[@videogames8353]

Vampire survivors at number 3 and star dew valley at the number 4 spot on steam is so incredible and well deserved. Steam has consistently been the powerhouse in PC gaming because valve doesn't resent it's users and treat them like children. User reviews matter because customer experience matters. There is good reason they have historically been one of the most profitable companies per employee in the US. Sure you can pay for a banner ad on the steam store, but the integrity of the review system is very difficult to manipulate and this has been great for users.

[@playtesting2317]

given that valve is now a storefront it is important to them that the product on their store holds quality, they have actually kicked games of their store for being utter trash and quite frankly the larger dev studios need that same wakeup call that the indie devs did.

[@ImRuined666]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You're new to Steam, aren't you?

[@LexisVoyage]

@@playtesting2317 alright hold up now my friend lets not get ahead of ourselves have you ever looked at steam new releases? actual purgatory.

[@SusloNick]

lol

[@Trikipum]

man, steam has removed bad reviews of games many times.. what the hell are you talking about..

[@WikiED]

Reducing negative reviews via demos is very smart approach, customer wins as there is good view into the product and producer wins as their review score is not tanking. Glad Demos found their way back to the playing field even tho i almost never use them just their sight makes me happier.

[@allster0crowly]

Timed demos do suck though, like only having one to three hours for story rich games is ridiculous(not able skip the story but still eats on the time with animations and info dumps), I would prefer the region locked(only allowed in the beginner area of game) completing the first chapter), or level locked( after character reaches a certain level you can no longer play).

[@Stiftoad]

I agree, the main reason I started pirating games as a kid with limited funds was to download the game and test it out to see if I really like it. It was right around the era when demos started dying like 2010-12 ish I’ve got most of them in my steam library by now.

[@damenwhelan3236]

​@@Stiftoad Dude. Same. And I try tell people that many pirating gamers do so mainly for a trial run. Or. Because the game is ohysically no longer available. And these people also buy content they like.

[@Stiftoad]

@@damenwhelan3236 oh yeah especially with goddamn nintendo games, i dont care if the only way to get them is illegal! It SHOULD be illegal to do what they are doing, dont even get me started on the games that died entirely because the publisher decided it wasnt worth it to keep them running when theyve been live-service for NO reason

[@RedRabbit-ZA]

I actually like the overall user review scores on Steam. It sure is a lot better than critic reviews. I tend to put more trust in the opinions of people who actually play games. This whole story just shows that Bethesda can't handle negative feedback.

[@shirox11]

User reviews tend to be alot more biased tho specially towards certain developers. People tend to look at Bethesda games through rose tinted glasses.

[@lorecow88]

@shirox11 Even if they are somehow more biased (I disagree), customers generally don't have any agendas beyond "I didn't like this game" or "I don't like what this developer/publisher is doing."

[@olchum7605]

@@shirox11 More proof to his point. Bethesda had the benefit of rose tinted glasses and still landed into mixed. Imagine how terrible the game is actually to play for an average player who isn't conditioned to having liquid shit poured down their throats

[@tenesenka]

User reviews are worthless. They're hyper biased, often times parrot X content creator opinion rather than be genuine, and at times make no sense. User reviews are as bad as journalist reviews nowadays.

[@heroman1322]

@@shirox11Okay yeah and?.. You think IGN and other critics have the end all say all when it comes to game knowledge? No. This comes from the actual no-lifes that buy and play these games more extensively. Both sides will have bias, but to disregard Steam reviews.. It’s your loss at the end of the day.

[@robustdelirium9277]

Even if they reduced the load times, hell if they channeled fourth dimension voodoo magic into the code that completely nullifies the loading times it would be just as bad. The problem isn’t the loading screens. The problem is the lack of a game in between them. Even without the loading gates the “game” would still just be a fast travel simulator. Theres no way to actually feel like you’re going from place to place. The game operates on border line dream logic where you think about going somewhere and then you’re there. Bethesda took its strongest character out of this game. The world. Also the writing is piss, and the dialogue options only gave you the illusion of choice without any real effect regardless of what you picked, and the progressions system was abysmal.

[@Tiberium10332]

It doesn't even has a real climax. You just get thrown into the ending.

[@ralphengland8559]

Exactly. I wasnt concerned with the loading, I was let down by the actual game in-between the loading.

[@sheffield8184]

​@ralphengland8559 it's just such a boring game

[@madawcofarreat2348]

Yeah, focusing on the loading issues with Starfield as one of the only major negatives is very strange to me. That's absolutely one of the milder things wrong with it.

[@SkipperGin]

I recall a moment during my playthrough where I realized that, despite having the "kid stuff" trait, I had only ever actually seen the message about sending my parents money a couple times. I was like 40 hours into the game at this point and had completed multiple faction questlines along with countless sidequests, and I was probably around level 30. I looked at the in-game stats to see how many days had passed since the game started. It was like 30 or something. I had fully explored multiple entire star systems, saved the galaxy from a potentially humanity-ending threat and become the top agent of one of the galaxy's largest corporations in about a month. I guess the game doesn't really make any time pass when fast travelling between, say, New Atlantis and Paradiso, despite the fact that they're hundreds of thousands of lightyears apart.

[@Aerinndis]

Starfield has the unenviable problem that no DLC can fix it due to how deep most of its issues run. They'd have to redo the game mechanics, the setting, quests and... basically everything from the ground up to actually make it what they claimed it'd be. Including hiring actual writers who know how to do SciFi and characters. All DLC can do is put a band aid on the core. It could hypothetically be good band aid, but it'd still be band aid.

[@Slitheringpeanut]

The fact that Bethy has ANY good will after Fallout 76 blows my little brain.

[@Blood-PawWerewolf]

It’s like being bought by Microsoft makes your company worse than better

[@bchin4005]

You'd be surprised how many players there are that think Skyrim and FO4 are peak gameplay experiences.

[@pedropedro1]

People believe jewish consensus bots nobody that is real bought starfail

[@maudley]

​@tacticalcircumvention2889eh, the vanilla skyrim quests and all that hold back my experience more than help it. Look at those mods that are entire games rather than adding onto skyrim. I'd say it's prolly more a problem of not having a library of existing mods (so immediate downgrade from what people are used to), and the base formula being meh as always. Only makes the gaps for mod content more stark than ever.

[@GeebusCrust]

​@tacticalcircumvention2889at least No Man's Sky showed that procedural generation can aid in providing an engaging experience. Bethesda couldn't even manage that. Procedural generation could have put *actual content* on these planets, but they're empty and lacking interactivity.

[@misterspalk]

I just want to express my appreciation for the way that you guys present your news. I'm honestly getting fed up with a lot of content I consume because a lot of it is just telling me what I'm supposed to think about a given subject. I love how you just present the facts and then provide context to them. You don't put a spin on it. You don't make it inflammatory for clicks and likes. Thank you guys for not being shite

[@silverheart302]

Yeah, german here, we don't have as many newscasters because the ones we do have aren't trying to push a narrative but are presenting you with facts and then leaving you to decide what to do with this information. I have just in the past few days drawn from american news sources and found myself disgusted by how riddled with opinions and in part even insulting each other on the news

[@LordShadowZ]

If a developer tells a player that they're playing the game wrong, then those developers designed the game wrong.

[@yousefleithi2382]

Not really, I mean in the case of open world games or starfield maybe. But Hugo martin(DOOM ETERNAL lead) has said in one of his interviews(I am paraphrasing): we forced the player to play a certain way and if they don't we kill them. And that worked cause doom eternal was really fun gameplay wise

[@barrywhite1770]

If you play the game with a mouse and no keyboard….

[@skorpion7132]

I Agree to a degree. When something can be done within a game, then it is a legitimate way of playing the game, even when its not intended as such. Anyone remember that racing game from way back where backup and then crossing the finish would lead you to win? However, I do draw a line in that any given paystyle will not yeld the same results, and given player should not expect it to. And here often times people make a mistake (or worse demand) that they do expect similar results.

[@LarsaXL]

Nah, they should lean into it. Like LoL did when people started playing All Random All Mid. "There's really no wrong way to play q game, but if the developers note people are playing it in a different way than they intended, that's an opportunity not a problem.

[@owanobi]

Steam's system of devs being able to reply to reviews is great since it can really show how out of touch some companies are OR, it can show how great some devs are at listening to feedback and fixing issues. I have left a few reviews for games that were negative and if the devs fixed the issues, I have changed my review, it is the least I can do to help.

[@233kosta]

Yeh, how they respond to a bad review tells a lot more about the studio than the bad review itself ever could.

[@ashroskell]

The replies coming out of Bethesda are bad in two ways. 1) The copy&pasting is so obvious that you can see no one is LISTENING, but just reading a script. 2) They come off as ex-wife levels of passive aggressive. “We’re not wrong, you are. Sorry you don’t appreciate my hard work. You aren’t playing it right.”

[@ashroskell]

But, let’s face it, you can’t patch a bad story or sociopathic characters who are meant to be your companion, “good guys.” The whole game comes off as corporate and sinister to me. I uninstalled it.

[@ashroskell]

For what it’s worth, this is my review now. The problem with Starfield is un-patchable. It’s the story does not make ANY sense and the characters are all monotoned sociopaths. These, “explorers,” have not even, “explored,” the plants and wildlife on their own literal doorstep! But they’ve been there for 40 years according to the plot! Same with the, “artefact,” MacGuffins. They’re in these temple/mountain type things, surrounded by physics defying floating rocks. Fine. But half the time they’re literally within sight, and easy walking distance, of a, “SCIENCE,” outpost! Yet you are always the first person ever to discover them??? Because we have the most incurious, “scientists,” in our universe??? And why can’t you fail any side quests? Your dialogue choices are MEANINGLESS! The story will always come out the way they intended! And if you save a, “companion’s,” life (if you bother taking anyone on a mission, as they’re always a liability, running in front of your gun and standing in the open) they say, “thanks,” and that’s it. They show mild annoyance if you shoot them (they can’t die, because, plot armour) and go on a psychotic killing spree in front of them! Starfield is so JUVENILE and INSULTINGLY badly written it’s not even funny! I played the new Robocop game recently and realised, people will forgive a lot of jank, poor graphics, etc, for the sake of a great game with funny or cool characters you get attached to. You can’t patch the writing. You can only change the story to make sense! No thought was put into the internal logic of the game and it’s bafflingly nonsensical at every turn. There just isn’t enough space to list all of the gaping plot holes like, why bother wasting time building the coolest spaceship in the galaxy, when you can teleport to your next mission target, direct to the planet, avoiding any chance of being shot down? Bethesda, if you’re reading, I can save your game, by rewriting it, for minimal reshoots and overheads. 😉

[@robsolf]

One thing is for certain: If someone didn't enjoy your game, you are not gonna change their mind giving the kind of passive-aggressive "Our game is great; you just can't see it" responses BGS is giving. And I don't imagine there will be many potential players that will look at that exchange and think, "Yeah, this company cares about their players".

[@Chad6o]

True, I might have purchased it on sale, but seeing how they've responded, I'll NEVER pay a penny for it.

[@Skumtomten1]

While im no psychologist, this has to be one of the worst responses you can give to a negative comment. I have learned that if someone wants to express their negative thoughts, you should never try to argue with them. It just triggers their brain to defend their thoughts even more essentially making it the worse you can do if you want to change their opinion

[@PInnHeAd]

BSG seems to think players are playing their vision of the game allready, not the one with all the problems, and yes, Tarkov when done and done at least funtcioning with sound and desync and a good anticheat system it might elevate it so more will like it. But as it is right now, BSG have lots to do. OT I got Starfield from buying something, can't remember what it was, i think it was my new speakers, i couldn't get more than a few hours into it, so god damn booring, nothing about it gripped me, NOT A DAMN THING. Everything felt flat to me... I give starfield 4/10.

[@dudeldudel666]

I think this is not about changing the opinions of people who have already played the game, I think this is a strategy to frame the discussion away from "starfield bad" to "bethesda bad"

[@williamings773]

​@dudeldudel666 so from "hate this game" to "hate us and everything we make from now on" does that sound like a win?

[@pitafish]

Every quest comes down to just opening the menu and hitting fast travel

[@bchin4005]

Peak game design

[@matthewwilson5019]

also the VERY VERY limiting ship building and ships designing. that has put me off from playing starfild anymore

[@666MaRius9991]

[@FrostRare]

Everytime I buy a game with a mixed review, unless it’s a game whose future and community I’m invested in, I always regret it. I really appreciate that, on Steam, the players really have an empowered vote. Not only do we enjoy total access to honest appraisal of the products from fellow consumers who themselves have no other incentive to provide a good review than wanting to express their gratitude, share their satisfaction, and attract more players, the Steam algorithm itself is at the whim of this consumer feedback. Of course we still get Battlefield 2042 and Assassin’s Creed on the front page, but such product placement by Steam isn’t nearly as oppressive and effective as it is on other online stores where hidden gems are condemned to be forever buried beneath the cavalcade of AAA garbage. I no longer buy games with mixed reviews and I imagine that many other players practice this same consumer discretion. If the game can’t tip itself over into ‘very positive’ it remains in purgatory until the devs deliver on what the people want.

[@lordofchaosinc.261]

A large amount of the playbase has a big ego who thinks they are the only people who get it when a game has a mediocre reception like it's a diamond in the rough or something. In reality for every "Outward" or "Elex" that's janky and appeals to a niche set of gamers there are twenty average boring 6/10 games noone needs to play like SF.

[@FrostRare]

@@lordofchaosinc.261 Ive seen a lot of what you’re talking about- games who remain in a perpetual state of Early Access with mixed reviews that manage to keep hold of 500 or so players that keep insisting “ITS GONNA GET FIXED SOON”. All the while, they complain in the reviews that people just need to get good. The problem with a game that attracts a small but radically loyal group of hardcore players is that, at a certain point, the devs become beholden to that niche and oftentimes toxic group of perpetually online addicts. It creates a cycle where the developers aren’t allowed to make the changes they need to in order to attract a broader audience because their core audience complains, review bombs, spams their forums, and relentlessly whines until the devs give in and make the game even more niche, exclusionary, confusing, and unapproachable. Then, when new players do muster up the balls to get involved in these communities, they are quickly boxed out by the trolls that babysit the servers. God forbid they try and make friends or get help in the discord server… I have seen some games successfully emerge from this trap. Warno and Synthetik 2, my two favorite games on Steam, both were plagued by staunch disapproval during the first YEARS of early access. Since both were sequels to games that were universally loved, the hardcore players who carried over to these new titles were obnoxious in their attempts to manhandle the devs. This lasted for years, with Warno especially being such an unwelcome and unwieldy experience for newcomers that the servers never saw more than 300 people online at once. Both these games now stand at Very Positive on Steam and both of them are only increasing in concurrent players with every update. What games are you talking about by the way? I’m curious.

[@Fiasco3]

Bethesda's presentation of StarField pretty much showed you everything. People were rightly assuming that there would be more there and that it was just a snapshot, but no that was it. It fully deserves a mixed review on Steam at the moment. They showcased the 5% that was action and left out the 95% trudge fest.

[@deenman23]

idk the game ended up pretty much as i expected,i didnt get disapointed,expect with the shity performance and ugly color filter the game has,granted both are fixed with mods,and performance was fixed by bethesda now,but aside from those issues....if you played fallout 4,this is that in space,with actual improved loading times somehow lol

[@JustGrowingUp84]

@@deenman23 Fallout 4 has better exploration though. And better maps. Including actual city maps with all the important locations.

[@deenman23]

@@JustGrowingUp84 i agree with expliration,not rly with maps,starfield has better cities,well it has cities,f4 has 1 real one

[@JustGrowingUp84]

@@deenman23 Well, yeah, the cities in F4 are not what we would call cities.

[@squashiejoshie200000]

@@deenman23 I don't think there are any bethesda games over 5/10. I think there are mods for bethesda games over 5/10.

[@DagothDaddy]

This is all much funnier when you learn more devs from outsourcing studios worked on Starfield than actual devs at Bethesda at that point it's not even their hard work being criticized. Despite all the talk abiut this being "Todds dream game." It feels like they gave up a year into development and just outsourced the rest while they worked on TES6

[@grampaseri]

Except this implies TES6 will be good because it's getting development from the main studio. Bethesda has demonstrated they cannot innovate from the top level. What studio does the nuts-and-bolts coding doesn't matter when there is no vision to be seen.

[@Ay-xq7mj]

They can reverse innovate. Every game after morrowind is a downgrade.

[@fairyboy444]

it’s been outsourced? can you drop a reliable source saying such?

[@grampaseri]

@@Ay-xq7mj Lol, true.

[@kunalsingh4418]

​​@@Ay-xq7mjthing is, there engine is fundamentally still the same as back then. Unless they massively revamped creation engine, it's hard to believe ts6 would be any better. It will fall flat simply due to engine limitation failing to meet modern players expectations.

[@micheljolicoeur6094]

Yes, I have left Steam reviews and flipped at least one. Note the one I flipped was actually from Positive to Negative when the developer of the game decided that rather than address an issue fans of the game had they instead had their Discord Admin REMOVE all complaints about the issue from their Discord server and ignore the issue altogether, RIP Astroneer.

[@dapedaily]

what happened to astroneer? it's been awhile since the last time played it

[@Sneaky911]

Man I remember playing it 3 or 4 years ago. Was a kinda good game at that time. I liked it.

[@MrMe917]

Oh god, I remember the shitshow when it happened... I don't remember what exactly, meaning that I probably wasn't affected by it as badly as many others, but the reaction from the developers soured me enough to make me fuck off.

[@matthewwilson5019]

@@Sneaky911 its still a good game, BUT sounds like how issues were being NOT adressed or even ignored has rubbed Michel the wrong way

[@theshadowdirector]

It's absolutely batshit behaviour from a massive corporation, it's the kind of thing I would maybe expect to see from a smaller developer, who, you know, can't afford a PR department to tell them this is a bad idea.

[@joe--cool]

It's the Apple response to criticism: "you're holding it wrong."

[@watcherofall11]

Honestly good feedback was one of my favorite parts of playing subnautica in early access The ability to just take a moment to tell the devs Hey I found floating textures Or hey, this creature literally made me pause the game it scared me so much good job.

[@brendlowert5772]

I don't understand this trend of companies telling their customers that they're wrong. It's a tried, tested, and above everything else, failed method to salvage your product's reputation, yet the siren call to go for it seems just too strong and irresistible.

[@housewilma4904]

its entertainment wide phenomenon to talk to your customers like your disusted by them. like your the "Popular kid" in high school whos expects blind obedience or will treat you with total disgust.

[@MrRawrCEO]

I'd attribute to a combination of arrogance, misguided attempts at damage control, and their own natural aversion to admitting mistakes. The first one is human nature (albeit a worse aspect of it), the latter two are (in my opinion) symptomatic of a corporate culture that revolves around constantly placating and attracting investors rather than customers.

[@BungieStudios]

On Battlelog for BF3, we players were accused of petitioning, banned from the forums, and told to go back to BF2. You know, shortly before EA shut down the servers for older Battlefield games to push new sales...

[@DeadEye364]

This reminds me of something Gabe Newell said “Fun is not realism, but reinforcement”. A lesson most game developers have forgotten.

[@Orange_Swirl]

Imo, realism is not always fun, but realism can be fun if it falls in line with reinforcement. A good way to tell if realistic gameplay is improving or acting as a detriment to your game is if it forces the player to make interesting decisions. If it doesn't, you likely failed somewhere.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

​@@Orange_Swirl Yeah Fallout 4 survival mode is actually a really good, related example. Is needing water every 5 minutes, being limited to carrying a hundred or so bullets, and dying horribly if a grenade goes off 30 feet away from me more realistic than Fallout 4 normally is? Absolutely. However, Survival mode is also horribly, horribly, horribly tedious and unfun.

[@Mirthful_Midori]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 They also disabled console commands and forced a really stupid way of saving the game. The diseases felt arbitrary and random at times. Treating them was also really tedious. Having to eat and drink in a game is also just more tedium, but New Vegas got the rest of it right with its "Hard Core" mode. Giving ammo weight, the changes to healing items and companions potentially dying were interesting changes from the usual. Bethesda didn't even have the balls to let companions die. They just get mad if you don't heal them quickly enough and teleport to a previous settlement.

[@lucketvids]

I mean this game is realistic. Everytime I blink it's a loading screen. Every 4 seconds, this game has a loading screen. Flawless execution /s

[@danang5]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 i like it, i dont like the hardest base difficulty on skyrim,but i like survivalist mode on fallout 4, i spend like twice the hour on survivalist than in 1 difficulty below survivalist because i find survivalist more fun and i think it boils down to the damage boost i get on survivalist so the kill time is actually higher than hard, and im forced to actually use consumable and manage my inventory instead of hoarding everything, and just the hard difficulty is too easy for my liking its not perfect, and not for everyone, but i like it despite hating skyrim hardest difficulty i hate the walking part tho, the map just isnt built for you to walk on areas multiple time, its built for you to just go to an area once and fast travel later on, and there's no carriage like skyrim

[@TheRogueWolf]

First Todd "It All Just Works" Howard tells us that _Starfield_ is actually well-optimized and we just don't know how to computer, and now he's having his staff tell us that _Starfield_ is actually good and we just don't know how to videogame.

[@moonraven6145]

You see, that was my problem thinking the game was a boring, horribly performing, terribly written mess, but lord and saviour Todd Howard told me I was wrong, and now I love the game now, gg Bethesda...

[@tomvu1470]

SIXTEEN times the good.🤣

[@adventurous_soles9899]

"It just works. Upgrade your PC's and learn how to enjoy being bored" Should go on his tomb stone.

[@TheExileFox]

Todd is actually just an AI. Hence why he loves Starfeild. It's like his own son.

[@ericm5315]

What's the matter? Don't have an RTX 4080 with framegen?

[@Jet_Art]

I spent over a week exploring the game at launch before I personally made a review. My best comparison was, "It's a diet coke of space games"

[@Joram647]

One of my favorite indie devs, Trese Brothers, have been doing the 'reply to reviews' and 'engage with the community' things for years. It's helped them develop a tremendous amount of good will with their player base and is basically why I tried some of their older titles that I would have overlooked otherwise.

[@SynthLizard8]

Funny enough, Skyrim's skybox at night with the music made me feel a sense of "scale and wonder" seeing the universe, moon and stars is a heck of a lot more fantastical then a dotted black void.

[@maranr]

It is so interesting how companies think that propaganda is going to solve their consumer problems. Where do they learn this stuff? The only solution is to do with CD Project Red did with Cyberpunk and the people who made No Man's sky: spend some more money, listen to the fans and fix the game. (or live with it and make darn sure the next game checks all the right boxes) As it is, I am sure tons of people are worried about the quality of Elder Scrolls 6. I know my confidence level has dropped.

[@gman7497]

100%. Accept that not everyone likes your game. BGS games are a specific experience with ALOT of flaws in execution. Some people like the sandbox stuff that Beth does well enough to let that slide. Many don't.

[@Skumtomten1]

After Fallout 76 Bethesda should never even have sold a single copy of this game. Gamers have the memory of a goldfish, the threshold resistence for a new game like a toddler and are just as stupid. You can call your fanbase stupid, produce crap games and they will still buy the next iteration of the series. Elder Scrolls 6 will be average at best but will have record sales anyway, GTA 6 will be the same.

[@Eric-ct2ri]

@@gman7497 the patience with the flaws is dwindling now tho as almost all dev teams seem to be doing it now. they have aquired the released unfinnished broken sht now and fix it later maybe bullsht.

[@FuckGoogle502]

@@Eric-ct2ri Most dev teams have been doing it for years. I stopped upgrading my PC in anticipation of new games when I first noticed it and all my friends argued with me. I really don't know why it's taken people so long to pay attention to the flaws.

[@michaelbuto305]

@@Eric-ct2ri These devs jealous of how Gacha dev makes easier money and working less hour. While them always scared of get their job taken. Thats the reason they always so unite in their circle but the moment you see from outside its a f toxic circle. Its the mentality of more solid and being more toxic to others. No wonder, people getting more disgusted by devs and devs always deflecting here and there even though they not capable to live long as a game dev with rocketing tech development. Diablo 4 even have bag scandal where you actually load other people item bag too when you acces your own item bag. Its so disgusting how these toxic environment keep running.

[@Maldanil]

I absolutely LOVE how before Starfield came out some people were critical of it being just a boring ai-generated dryland. They were usually silenced by folks high on copium that apparently liked to explore dead worlds. Look how the turn tables.

[@Solon_The_Lich]

Toddslop and Copium stocks were at all time Highs

[@james-s-smith]

In the immortal words of a legendary African warlord, "they see a crater, they soy-pog, and they leave."

[@Interitus1]

procedual generation isn't AI generated. And it's been very successfully used in games like No Man's Sky and Minecraft. Hell even Lethal Company uses procedual generation.. Procedual generation isn't inhertinely good or bad in itself, it's how it is used.

[@gordonhowett7529]

amen man! it's not the tool, it is how the tool is used.@@Interitus1

[@Maldanil]

@@Interitus1 you've got a point with NMS and Minecraft but both still can get repetative rather quickly and I say that as a big fan. Minecraft's saving grace is that it's filled to the brim with features as a survival/builder sandbox. I was too lazy to say procedurally and assumed the background was somehow similar.

[@gimblegiil]

I'm happy to see Star Citizen finally get some recognition for their hard work.

[@jijonbreaker]

*checks calendar* I don't care if Star Citizen becomes the greatest game ever developed. It's a total shitshow of development.

[@scorpixel1866]

@@jijonbreaker Hey don't be so harsh, by the time it's released, your descendants will be able to play a hyper realistic space-game, that or take a stroll on an actual spaceship.

[@fenderslasher]

I think Steam could develop a tool to help with this issue. Perhaps, if you were to leave a negative review on a title you could get a push notification when that game receives a patch or uprate letting them know. I have left negative reviews with intent to update accordingly and some I did and some I never even remembered leaving the review.

[@oakmen4604]

Steam also has recent reviews so buyers can have a good idea of how a game is doing.

[@harshamohite1289]

I've changed my review on a Steam game once. And that was just last month for Cyberpunk 2077. I said in my original negative review, roughly 2 weeks after launch, that Cyberpunk could not be saved without a drastic gameplay and design overhaul, because even underneath the bugs, it has a ton of systemic issues. 3 years later, that's exactly what they've done with Update 2.0. And so, I changed my review to positive to reflect that.

[@galdwynn2868]

3-years is a long time to finally get things right. No game is perfect at launch, but Cyberpunk should have never released in the state it was in. For me the issue was how bad the game was at release, and no amount of fixing after the fact is going to change that. But I'm glad you are enjoying the game now, and that the people that stuck with the Cyberpunk are finally getting the game they deserve.

[@mightylink65]

My review was positive but now I'm thinking of changing it to negative just to get some social interaction from Bethesda.

[@honaleri]

I saw some of these reviews myself! Bethesda was like "When we landed on the moon there was nothing there but do you think the astronauts were bored?" I laughed histerically. I've never seen a deeper copium in my life. I was like..yeah...they were physically in space. I'm sitting on a couch trying to play pretend and you think I'm gonna have just as much "fun" cause you gave me an empty rock to jump around on. 😂😂😂

[@B0nd3n]

yeah and they didnt have to go through multiple loading screen before landing xD, plus being the first to land on the moon would have been more fun then sitting on a computer/console looking at an empty planet you cant fully explore

[@iseeundeadpeople9]

It's like shills defending Dungeon Keeper Mobile because digging out a tile taking a day is realistic.

[@gigitrix]

That’s such a passive aggressive response to criticism, wow

[@samuelansin8307]

I like the realizim of most of the worlds being empty. It makes finding a world with a bunch of stuff to do on more meaningful. It would have felt weird to me if every planet you could visit had as much stuff to do on it as the main planets. There would have been no feeling of exploration of every planet was already heavily developed.

[@shorewall]

@@samuelansin8307 I'd agree if exploration wasn't punished with unlimited loading screens.

[@dsvp4825]

Todd Howard holds the entirety of Bethesda back . His ideas are extremely dated and he doesn't really show any ability to make innovative games . He just makes the same game over and over again He knows how to make one game and it's obvlivion/fallout 3 with different paint jobs There is nothing starfield does that you couldn't have done 15 years ago in terms of gameplay design and innovation In fact it's even taken steps back and lost features since skyrim/fallout 4

[@bchin4005]

And to think he considers Starfield to be his magnum opus, his words. Can't wait to see how TES 6 disappoints.

[@carpenoctem]

@@bchin4005 It’s kind of poetic, no? Todd has always bragged about his career success after being bullied in high school, and the best he’s ever done is lead some of the jankiest games in the industry.

[@Apocobat]

I recall for skyrim he was very proud of the idea of simplifying interfaces and systems. Todds ideas are very questionable, maybe not in isolation but the whole he represents is concerning for bethesda games going forward

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

This is my OPINION: I think this is the start of the top down, hierarchical system collapsing. It's not a very efficient or sustainable way to run things anymore. Imagine if each department in a game studio voted for a few representatives, who gathered all the ideas from their respective department. They're all developers or creatives or whatever you want to call them. The reps gather round and hash things out between each department before moving ahead with major development. They met periodically to check in what their departments are doing and what unforeseen problems have arisen and how to solve them. It might front load some development time as each group works out how they want the game to function, but in the end should lead to a smoother completion cycle in the long run. The fact that one person controls everything, and on a whim can throw out months of work just because, is frankly stupid and is part of why games are such a disaster anymore. There are different ways to do this, but the hero worship of these aging "rockstar devs" is holding us back. Well, it's one reason out of a gazillion. I would rather the people closest to the actual work be collectively making most of the decisions since they're the most knowledgeable about the limitations and boundaries. Some rich dude sitting in his office all day (but let's get real, the executives aren't working in the office all day) who is so disconnected from the reality of what's happening is not going to make great stuff. They'll force their workers to make whatever they want when they want with no care about the impact that'll have. We could start changing the way we operate now to sign the blow, but what's probably going to happen is everything is going to explode and we'll waste a ton of time and energy setting everything back up again. Think of it like American infrastructure: we don't slowly replace the old stuff that's not working anymore, we waste resources keeping 150 year old water mains going until they literally explode and it costs three times as much to fix over replacing it when it was at its end.

[@The_Greenbeard]

I actually had a Bethesda rep reach out to me around about a month or two ago after a review of fallout 76 I left. They asked if I would be willing to change it, They also asked me to give feed back on why I was so negative and they hoped I would return and give it another go.

[@manictiger]

I never played it and probably never will. No mods is a huge turn off.

[@coryjohnson2486]

They probably have a MASSIVE team trying to tell people to change their reviews to positive 😂

[@Phantom-kf6bp]

Did devs never understood that the moment you tell players that they are playing it the wrong way it is game over? Look at Blizzard and WoW as an example

[@NeverUseAnApostrophe]

No need to double conjugate your verbs: "Did devs never *understand..."

[@BungieStudios]

On Battlelog for BF3, we players were accused of petitioning, banned, and told to go back to BF2. You know, shortly before EA shut down the servers for older Battlefield games to push new sales.

[@BungieStudios]

Also, you guy's don't have phones???

[@sonjaR2]

Agreed.... They DO need to pull something like a Phantom Liberty.. However, I will be *extremely* surprised if that ever happens. Bethesda has an APPALLING track record for not improving/fixing their games post-release to begin with. Typically, they rely on the unpaid labour of mod authors to do this. Moreover, publicly, at least, Bethesda has shown themselves to be completely tone-deaf to any kind of criticism, often blaming players themselves for the poor experience they've had with their titles.... If that is indeed the attitude they hold, I'd say it's essentially guaranteed that nothing will change. The only thing I've seen from them, especially in more recent years, is increasing petulance that they're no longer being given an automatic pass for the many issues that plague their games.

[@The8bitbeard]

Us long time Bethesda fans usually gave them a pass because we felt their games were still fun and enjoyable in spite of the very obvious issues. With Starfield though, I'm just not having any fun.

[@ashamahee]

@@The8bitbeard this is the exact difference, Fallout and ES are good games on their own and fun and exciting to explore, Starfield is rather dull and its a darn shame since its really impressively pretty in many places and such potential but they choose so many shortcuts that its mindboggling how they ever thought this would be a good idea.

[@sonjaR2]

And that comment, coming from a long-time Bethesda fan, says it all, IMO. @@The8bitbeard

[@gordonhowett7529]

The problem is that in order to recover some trust, they'd have to do a few DLC's/Expansions for free. No Man's Sky is still giving out massive free updates. And CP2077 had a bunch of free stuff before Phantom Liberty, and it was only after they fixed the game, and gave away the freebies that the reviews started to turn around, which led to a good release for PL. Bethesda is gonna have to bite the bullet and make the first series of DLC's free, and I just don't see them even considering that. They would never release DLC for free, not after starting the whole paid DLC phenomenon with that Horse Armor back in the day.

[@ashamahee]

@@gordonhowett7529 yeah you are right about BGS, and then consider that half the dlc for F4 were really shallow when compared to what they released in F3, same when compared to Skyrim dlc if I remember correctly. Some claim that they did well with F76 and that is true to a degree but one has to keep in mind that there is incentive for them to do so since they are running an in game shop in that game so there exists monetary reasons for updating and improving that game. I have serious doubts they will ever turn this ship around but I suppose we can get positively surprised if they actually learn from this.

[@610Hobbies]

Bethesda's damage control for Starfield in a nutshell: _"You're not playing it right."_

[@davitlomadze9831]

its somewhere between that and "You are not enjoying it right"

[@theirishviking9278]

and the average players response since 76 "your not making it right"

[@zJoriz]

Honestly it sounds more to me like, "Please lower your expectations". Which is... kinda odd when a person like Todd Howard also exists in your company.

[@MichaelSmith-py6mg]

I will say, seeing genuine and reasonable responses to criticism in reviews has actually made me follow through with purchasing the game on a handful of occasions. It’s reassuring to see a dev say “hey thanks for the feedback, we’re looking into resolving this issue you’re having” rather than the defensive “nuh uh, stop being picky” some devs throw out there.

[@ThirsttyRecon]

Starfield's greatest achievement was improving the reception of star citizen in the public eye.

[@firefrai]

Thanks for your perspective, I just realised I probably should be leaving steam reviews on games to help support devs or to alert buyers that a game isn't worth the money, going to start going through my steam list and updating them with my thoughts over time. While listening to the video I managed to write out 1 positive & 1 negative review

[@speedingoffence]

Been talking to some of the old guard Bethesda modders, and they're saying it's not likely to see a modding scene on Starfield to anywhere near the degree of the previous games. The engine just isn't set up for it.

[@Jupa]

Also it’s pretty hard to mod a game they have no interest for. People mod Skyrim to enjoy the Bethesda story in their way. Most quest mods apart from total overhauls like Enderal… are adapted to the story by Bethesda. When the world building is non existent, why would anyone want to interact with it. If Star Citizen had Starfields terrible characters and lore, it would still have terrible characters and nonsensical lore.

[@mightylink65]

I'm a modder myself on oblivion nexus and without even seeing the new creation kit I can tell the maps will be too limiting to create the mods people want. They went with a new terrain system that's limited to 8x8km, there's no way we can do any total conversions in this or make any "skyrim planets" with those hard coded limitations.

[@Jupa]

@@mightylink65 Perhaps a feasible mod is connecting terrains with a brief loading frame hold inbetween… like Morrowind! Jokes aside, that’s really bad. I remember installing the illumination within mod for Oblivion, the mod author wrote ‘it’s a basic feature all games should have now’. That was in 2006. Starfield does not have window illumination in 2023. What a nightmare engine.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Dang. My precious hopes that Starfield would be an interesting game to buy and play in 2029 once the modders finished it are melting. Modded Starfield is gone. Gone forever. AAEEEEUUUUGGHH

[@Particle_Ghost]

It's no secret they've been wanting to slowly do away with mods because it gives a game unlimited replay value. Then you have the fact some mods have even been removed, such as mods that tried to remove pronouns and quite a few other little things as well. If you can't mod a game the way you want then there's not really a point of even trying.

[@Helmutlozzi]

I still feel like shit for not refunding the game when I had the chance. What a massive amount of wasted money. I have negative amount of hope for the next TES.

[@UnityAgainstJewishEvil]

Considering they refuse to learn and create a better product, and they’ll be using the same 20 year old engine, there’s absolutely no hope for TE6. It’s sad because if they actually cared, that game could be groundbreaking, but they’ll just lie about a game that doesn’t exist and release more trash.

[@hiddendragon415]

Unless they scrap their archaic engine and their American Christian content sensitivity don't bother. Hint don't bother.

[@misanthropicattackhelicopt4148]

Played 20 hours of this crap just couldn't take another loading screen. I mean my god the amount of loading screens is insane in that game. Its like you jumping from shoebox to shoebox and if it takes 50 hours for when the game gets good you have failed as a game developer.

[@Saith516]

It's a new low, a new level of disrespect --- they can't even be bothered to put a person on public relations, it's just AI gaslighting you now.

[@mushroomsamba82]

I noticed these dev replies the other day when I was checking to see if I could run the game at a decent frame rate yet and Immediately thought "wow, they're really trying to gaslight people into thinking they're playing the game wrong". An impressive feat of corporate hubris by BGS.

[@TheLightLOD]

That's a very interesting notion. Because of the loading screens, a player expects there to be things on the planets in Starfield. Whereas with Star Citizen the game can claim that it never suggested anything to be on an empty planet in the first place.

[@youtubevanced4900]

Hilariously that 1 IGN reviewer that Bethesda forgot to pay and gave the game a 7 was the only ‘pro’ reviewer that gave an honest appraisal. He got absolutely pillared for that review from all the fanboys.

[@astranger448]

Meanwhile The Guardian was kept out of the review loop, they did not get a preview copy. Now they are a serious news paper with a games section. Their games section wrote a very fair review of the game. Their 'non games' section took an absolute axe to the practice of coloring review scores by avoiding outlets that might give a less than stellar review.

[@Čangrizavi_Cinik]

7 is a huge rating for a game. Average is 5, so 7 means the game is above average.

[@youtubevanced4900]

@@Čangrizavi_Cinik 100% agree with you. That's not how the rating system works in reality though. A 7 is basically a flop. Paid reviews have been a thing for so long that anything below an 8 is a complete failure. Look at 99% of reviews from the access media and it's all 9s and 10s. It's why I never read any reviews from the big names in the industry. Lots of KZbinrs are also affected by it. Being scared to give anything outside of the 7-10 scores.

[@kdog3908]

Yeah but, Todd said it was next gen and needed a really high end PC. Those reviewers are clearly wrong and the Bethesda devs are just pointing out their error. Right? 👀

[@wesleywilkinson6629]

this whole situation is so wild. it feels a little bit like a tantrum

[@ariyanadumon4549]

That's exactly what it is.

[@kurtmorales7644]

Bethesda expected Starfield to set the world on fire and be the next big thing from them. But didn't! It just turned out to be mid, and like you said they are throwing a temper tantrum, saying everybody else is wrong.

[@WorasLT]

@@kurtmorales7644 Because Bethesda only made one masterpiece. And people STILL play it more than their newest stuff :D

[@XirlioTLLXHR]

Well maybe they should've actually put in the work to make a good game?... I guess all the Skyrim re-releases didn't do good to their game development strategies and skills. They got so lazy it's absurd. Skyrim actually had some love and care for the year of it's release, compared to this hot garbage that had a lot of good reviews for such a bad game.@@kurtmorales7644 The problem Starfield has is that it was marketed as an open world space exploration rpg, kinda like Star Citizen. But instead, they shipped a garbage product from my point of view. It's worse in every way other than visuals than Fallout76 or Fallout4, and I actually liked Fallout4 and still play it, even though I use a lot of mods to get an enjoyable experience, the base game is just ... better.

[@TheRationalist.]

​@@WorasLTYeah and that was Morrowind. Everything since has been a downgrade.

[@drayle71]

something to consider on steams side it would be cool if steam could set it so dev could tag negative review being for a certain reason like your epilogue example and when you have an update that address said concern you can clip on that tag and it gives some sort prompt to that reviewer saying something like 'hey the new update to X is out and the dev say it deals with an issue in your review why not try it again'. This would be decent as a lot of people dont read patch/update notes or might not have seen that one and may have even forgotten they left a negative review

[@daisukeakihito9832]

There is a reason why we have a saying "Customer is always right" when you apply this situation to anything else i.e. "This meal is disgusting" "No, you are eating it wrong" sort of thing. It shows absolutely 0 genuine care and outright disregards your customer's opinion, at which point you might as well kick said customer in the testicles because they sure as hell won't be buying anything from you ever again with that approach.

[@ito2789]

Bethesda never fails with the post launch drama based on their obvious shortcomings 😂

[@Cpt_Birch]

They haven't earned another Internet Historian video yet. But they seem to be working on it.

[@Ichthyodactyl]

@@Cpt_Birch At this point... I hope it gets worse. Getting another full-length Internet Historian video would make the reality of Starfield almost worth it, even for those of us that didn't end up buying it.

[@MakerInMotion]

Bethesda is in a way the Nickelback of gaming. They're hugely successful but cool to hate on.

[@clarkecorvo2692]

to some degree, i can respect their commitment to fk things up.

[@Ichthyodactyl]

@@MakerInMotion They weren't always cool to hate on, that changed because they started doing a lot of shit that a lot of people hated. Don't pretend like this isn't a situation of their own making.

[@ionseven]

Zenimax did this to me on my negative review about ESO's aggressive monetizing about a year ago, so well after MS's acquisition. I've also heard people getting these on FO76. Disgusting and shady af.

[@garytsang5673]

Did the PR replied you with 'if you are a broke boy just say so'

[@goosewithagibus]

Yeah my FO76 review got a ridiculous reply. So lame.

[@kenshinhimura9387]

@@garytsang5673 that's the usual NPC fanboy reply in the Steam forums.

[@finitesound]

Same, my eso review was responded to. Well, in theory, they didn't actually address anything I said it was just fluff.

[@chopper9778]

Funnily enough pretty recently, I had a issue with a recent The Call of the Wild update, and left a neagtive review. The devs responded, sent me a email, and they fixed the issue in the next patch and I changed my review.

[@Longknife]

On release, Todd Howard commented on the Starfield subreddit that "we at Bethesda always say we have gaming's smartest fans." Big red flag to me. That's the mentality of a developer that dismisses criticism with "they're not smart enough to understand how great our game is." It's a humblebrag to themselves, too. Lo and behold, here we are 13 years after Skyrim and they haven't evolved worth a god damned, probably because they don't listen to criticism. They're sure as hell not listening to the "stop making so many NPCs flagged as essential" feedback, that's for damned sure. And apparently they thought what people missed most from Oblivion is that we want MORE potato-faced NPCs.

[@samvimes9510]

"When astronauts went to the moon, there was nothing there. They certainly weren't bored." Yeah see, here's the thing Bethesda. That was real life, and it was the first time humanity had set foot on another celestial body. Starfield is a video game. And even if someone were to try REALLY hard to roleplay in Starfield, that sense of awe would still be absent because traveling to other planets is a normal, mundane experience in that universe.

[@MariaIsabellaZNN]

I laughed at that too. Plus if the astronauts had gone to like 20 more moons with nothing on it after that, they would have become bored of it soon enough. We've gone to other planets in countless games before. There NEEDS to be something interesting to see.

[@TheFightConnoisseur]

I can’t even lie I didn’t make it 4 hours with Starfield before I got sick of the CONSTANT loading screens. Maybe one day I’ll return and give it another chance but that really did burn my enthusiasm out quickly, It completely took me out of the world because of how often the gameplay was cut for a loading screens or clunky inventory management. I never appreciated how few and far between loading screens are in other games like the Witcher or Cyberpunk.

[@AC-ut3nk]

Tbh i can't even stay past the loading screens, Everytime i want to give the game a chance i always end up like this. Start the game > loading in > Realise why i left > Alt+f4

[@notthemusewere]

The only way I was able to keep playing was to console code an inventory limit of 10,000 items and then stop paying any attention to inventory unless I wanted to sell off some guns for a quick cash

[@pyromaniacal13]

After the Ryujin missions, I got sick of loading screens and tried to explore a bit by hopping in my ship to No Man me some Skies, just to find out that no, I would not be allowed to explore. I must travel to locations using the map, *not* my ship. Unless Bethesda can fix that, there's no reason to play. You can't take space travel out of a space exploration RPG.

[@Jovisstfan]

I tried being a loot goblin but it just meant clearing a bunch of shit from dungeons and becoming an errand boy because the planetary capital of a planet doesn't have enough merchant money to buy 60 different items. Which is nonsensical because they probably have at least hundreds of thousands in the population. Hell, Freelancer, a game from 2003 managed to nail the scale of factions having multiple space colonies. The game felt big because you had to use hyperlanes to travel between the different systems and everywhere you went you'd see patrolling police cutters, freighters, prison ships, battle-cruisers that you can dock with to buy stuff with no money restrictions. Different systems have different production capabilities and you can be a merchant buying and selling goods between planets, and not just contraband but food, meds, metals, diamonds, etc. In Starfield you're a space adventurer, a swashbuckling pioneer out to solve the mysteries of an alien race and their artifact and you can't even sell 20 rifles to the port authority before their bank account is overdrawn. You can build an outpost though and still be unable to sell all the things you produce which is nuts. There are literal labs researching mystery shit like special drugs and all kinds of crazy stuff but it's not reflected in the economy of the game. Granted, I did not play for more than a couple hours because of things I don't want to discuss in a youtube comment field but I do believe that if it weren't for those reasons, I think I would've been pretty disappointed in the storyline and gameplay department.

[@JakeshandleYT]

U use a hard drive or something

[@JayTobas]

After fallout 4, I just stopped caring about Bethesda. They were a power house for my game library growing up, but now, they're a shadow of the company I once held them up to be. I'm not sure if that comes from the expectation for the gaming industry growing, my own maturing, or genuine laziness being developed in Bethesda. Maybe it's a mixture of all three, and more. Either way, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Activision, all the powerhouses back in the early and Mid 2010's have just fallen so far from the companies they once were in my eyes.

[@Hatecrewdethrol]

Honestly considering how one of the coolest things No Man's Sky does is flying through space, into the atmosphere and onto a planet's surface with barely even a loading hitch, it makes no sense how Starfield took the same travel sequence and was like "no each transition needs to be a loading screen"

[@jeremyblade7561]

I never left a steam review, but I left one for a text based DnD kinda thing on the app store. My complaint was that at one part of the story your party goes into a skeevy bar and boasts about their loot. You are not given a choice it just happens. Not surprisingly this leads to the party being drugged, robbed, and your best friend being killed. The developer responded to me by saying I should keep reading and I'll start liking it. That's not how it works. Something like, "we're adding more stories with more choices." Would have convinced me to either delete or raise the score. As it was I was annoyed. So it went from 2 stars to 1.

[@luminous2585]

I looked at the reviews out of curiosity and got the same idea. I somewhat agree with the often brought up notion that players don't always know what they want, but you really shouldn't tell your players what is and isn't fun. Also, comparing your game with the experience of going to the moon is just pure hubris.

[@tzeneth]

I think players are an amazing source of how something makes them feel (this is fun/boring/frustrating/etc.) but aren't necessarily correct on the solution to the problem. Sometimes players have good ideas and sometimes their ideas would not work for one reason or another that they don't consider as a player OR a developer can come up with a much more clever fix that solves multiple problems at the same time.

[@terrylandess6072]

He mentions 80K reviews which doesn't begin to include all the units sold. Next time if people are smart they will buy like 20 units and THOSE people will determine for the players if they might be interested. Sounds like the game blows but Bethesda still made bank - just not as much as they wanted. Problem is everybody is still stuck on that childish 'first' mentality.

[@Shinkajo]

​@@tzenethplayers are the only source on how something makes them feel lol.

[@vincer7824]

​@@tzenethAgree. Criticism can be more like a trail of breadcrumbs that can give the devs clues as to what can be altered to more effectively communicate what kind of experience they desire to give the player. Unfortunately in this case much of the criticism is being dismissed altogether.

[@tzeneth]

@@Shinkajo When a developer or tester plays a section, they can identify how that section makes them feel. Due to knowledge/experience or other influences, they might not feel exactly how a player feels but they will still be a source for how a person feels about something, which means players are not the only source for how something makes a person feel.

[@frickjames4089]

They saw we were being smart with our purchases and thought, "wait, how can we manipulate them like we manipulate the others!". Such a disgusting industry in its current state

[@SharienGaming]

welcome to capitalism =(

[@cordingdesert9566]

I was a Bethesda fanboy. Key word, was. I've realized that the problems I had with skyrim were never addressed in any of their copycats. They rarely improve the formula. They think if we just change the place, time, and universe, that will be enough. It's not. Radical change was needed, but it did not happen.

[@MrDertien]

Correct. In Skyrim you can't whistle to let your horse come to you. The Witcher III has this functionality, and Kingdom Come Deliverance has this as well. Bethesda releases Starfield and a modder has to come up and rectify what Bethesda should have done on release. Create a command that allows you to call your ship to you when you're on foot on a planet surface. Cutting corners is what they have done in Starfield, and it shows.

[@RuSosan]

Skyrim is in many ways the magnum opus of Bethesda's design. Pretty great game overall. _They didn't have to slide down a hill ass first into a thorny tree with their game quality after that though..._ 😑

[@t-rekt8527]

​@@RuSosan I think you spelt Morrowind wrong.

[@RuSosan]

@@t-rekt8527 No, I didn't.

[@t-rekt8527]

@@RuSosan How can a big puddle be a magnum opus? You might splash around in it for a bit but then take a swim in the ocean.

[@Turkeysammich3000]

Not on Steam, but I had a developer from Skull & Bones talk to me on the Ubisoft forum when it was still around. They were super excited about the game, and even gave away what they were planning. If that dev had had their way Skull & Bones would have been an amazing game. Pretty much like Pirates of the Burning Sea, except on a larger and more open scale.

[@BungieStudios]

On Battlelog for BF3, we players were accused of petitioning, banned, and told to go back to BF2. You know, shortly before EA shut down the servers for older Battlefield games to push new sales.

[@michellewilliams3782]

I tend to only leave a review when I feel strongly enough about a game and/ or I feel the game needs feedback. To my surprise and joy, my most recent review not only got responded to, but I also gave a wishlist of things I'd like to see and the next update will include several of the things I mentioned.

[@OathForged]

Demos for games are amazing, I wish every game come with one. At least like an hour of content or two levels, something to see if I actually like your game before I buy it and inevitably return it.

[@ozancanaltun7078]

It exists, its called "piracy" nowadays

[@hydranmenace]

I agree there should be a *lot* more in the steam demo section. The Pale Beyond has a really good one. Don't know if it's still there but it was.

[@vincer7824]

Agree. I wish games still had untimed demos. Although when demos were really popular it was before we could just search up and watch gameplay videos to get an idea of what we're potentially buying.

[@TheRealAlpha2]

I really do not understand the concept of a timed demo, sure you don't want to put out something that isn't indicative of your final product so you take it down but maybe wait until it's no longer indicative of it so that people on the fence have a chance to look at it. I've had to delete half a dozen demos just last night that I haven't even had a chance to play because of this timed crap. Will I ever buy these games now? Probably not. I might even for get they exist later. Which is a shame because I remember being excited for them I just didn't have the time to play the demo _that week._

[@hydranmenace]

@@TheRealAlpha2 Agree but it probably has a lot to do with the Steam refund policy. We have, what, two hours to game before it can't be refunded now? Most demos don't last two hours. I would rather have a refundable game with no demo, than a demo with no refund policy. Obviously it would be ideal to have both.

[@Jupa]

‘If art needs to be explained, it is no longer art.’ - Renoir

[@Galfrid]

Or never was 🤣🤣 So much "art" falls under this "explain it to sell it" category

[@Tyrany42]

This was actually very educational, I think I should leave Steam reviews more often…

[@bds4410]

It's essential to talk with your playerbase, many small things finally add up and make people play something else if they dont get fixed.

[@elimgarak1127]

The writing was on the wall with how watered down Skyrim was. Bethesda fans get everything they deserve at this point.

[@gaius2451]

I have 2 reviews on steam, one positive for kenshi, and a negative one for starfield

[@honaleri]

Kenshi is amazing. All my love forever to Kenshi.

[@WolfyRagnarok]

Imagine if they spent all this time and manpower on making a good game.

[@notthemusewere]

they did. Most of their feedback are cut and paste and many of them read like they were created by ChatGPT in the first place.

[@lucasLSD]

No company sets out to do a bad game, they just thought wrongly that the average Bethesda enjoyer loved space as much as Todd

[@notthemusewere]

@@lucasLSD I’d say more like “the average gamer enjoys shooting endless identical pirates but with 16x the practically-identical weapons to do it with” as much as Todd. And he’s not…wrong. Enough gamers are happy to leave behind story, exploration, interaction, and immersion and are enjoying the hell out of shooting at endless waves of pirates to get the game a half-decent Steam and Metacritic score.

[@adventurous_soles9899]

​@@notthemusewerewhat? It's because most of us have the same criticisms...

[@kenshinhimura9387]

@@notthemusewere no, no they didn't. Starfield is one of the worst video games ever made.

[@hand8007]

Belluar needs to remember that positivity bias is absolutely a thing often in response to negativity

[@SirAdsew]

One thing you missed about bad reviews from bugs is even if the review doesnt flip after a bug is fixed, future players won't post bad reviews based on the same bug, and your review ratio will gradually go up.

[@andyespinozam]

In the case of Bethesda, the score means “wait for it to be fully modded”

[@zJoriz]

Yup. A proper map, optimised loading times, a basic land vehicle to carry your loot and a nicer character creator are high on my wish list. The thing is that it's not really fair to rely on modders to do this hard work for us. I wouldn't blame them if they dropped Bethsoft games for greener pastures...

[@emanuel81111]

Bethesda being Bethesda... i mean effing up in everyway possible and blaming others

[@Halosrighthand]

"The customer is always right in matters of taste" someone needs to teach Todd this saying and it's meaning. Never tell someone why they have to like something they don't like. Respect that it wasn't for them.

[@tzeneth]

I have flipped a few reviews but usually it's updates to a game I was on the dividing line for. As for dev responses, I've had a dev friend me and then later ask me to change my review to positive. It felt shady as all heck, especially because they were trying to claim my review was positive to their game. The review involved me ripping into their game and pointing out how it just did not work on many levels and the fact I completed the story was a mistake and I should have stopped playing sooner. The Bethesda reply actually made me mad because they tried to call their UI good and completely ignored an example of why it's bad. You can't call McDonalds a Gourmet Meal and expect me to not have a large negative reaction to it. I don't think I've had a positive interaction that involved a dev responses except for one game where I just got frustrated with it and they acknowledged the frustration while trying to give advice.

[@deathfromace]

I've flipped from good to bad more often due to the devs ruining the game. Nightmare (now called like the looking stone or something) was the major one where the devs and ruined it.

[@jacksquatt6082]

Initially I read the title as "Bethesda SWINDLING Goodwill," and pictured the company ripping off thrift stores.

[@francesco.virzi4]

So the developers are desperate to change the negative reviews. What about not releasing the game until is good enough so you don’t get many negative reviews in the first place?

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

I guess the contempt and distrust was always there for Bethesda but man, ever since Fallout 4’s shaky launch, they’ve fallen into the same bin of having 0 credibility with the public alongside Ubisoft and activision Blizzard.

[@michaelomahony1225]

The game isn't a 10/10, it's more of a 4-5/10. I couldn't finish playing it as it became a forceful chore. From the pointless countless planets, the same encounters and the choices that seem to matter but turn out really don't matter. Thus giving you the feeling of choices matter (Unlike Baldur's gate 3, Mass effect etc). The game feels like it should have been released six years ago and now more than ever am I worried about the next Elder scrolls when you see the amazing Dragon's Dogma 2. Starfield to myself feels like a Mass Effect on budget of Mass effect, touch and object and get a vision. Go find out what this object and message means..

[@Blisterdude123]

No Man's Sky but singleplayer was what I thought this game would be. And I include that to mean NMS on launch, seven years ago, when it was pretty shallow, and bad. Starfield was seven years out of date when NMS released seven years ago.

[@InvertedWIng]

It would STILL be crap if it came out six years ago. Compared to the open world games of that time like The Witcher 3 and Horizon: Zero Dawn, Starfield is grossly lacking in...everything really. Content, gameplay, story, theme, art direction, and character. It's an asset flip being marketed and sold as a AAA game.

[@kezia8027]

lmao I don't know how any of you are still being fooled by todd or bethesda, this was ALWAYS, OBVIOUSLY going to be a disaster, from the moment it was announced. Bethesda is INCAPABLE of releasing a full game experience that isn't completely broken. They will never release a full, functional game, ever again. I would bet money on it. They've been complacent and lazy for a decade now, and they are literally incapable of pulling themselves out of their rut. I don't know how ANYONE can see the perfectly consistent track record over the last DECADE and more, that all CLEARLY points to this disaster of a game, and still have ANY benefit of the doubt to give bethesda... Well, you know what they say, there's a sucker born every minute... And suckers are the only reason bethesda is even remotely relevant today.

[@Loopin_9]

Brings me back to the conversation surrounding Hogwarts Legacy. The developers spoke about the 15 second rule. Something needs to happen every 15 seconds as you move around the world. Starfield was made without any similar concept being considered. If it's empty, that will affect peoples experience. Hogwarts Legacy was insanely engaging because of density. If you were able to scale up like that while maintaining density, that game would be amazing and insanely expensive and time consuming to make. Hopefully, starfield will be worth playing by the time I start playing it.

[@Aim54Delta]

I disagree with the developers of HWL, there. High stimulation media isn't necessarily the only way to make a game... though I agree it's kind of along the lines of Rowling's novels constantly introducing things because it's magic and - moving on. Games like Oblivion, Morrowind, and Daggerfall - even Skyrim, to a large extent, are rather low stimulation. You're supposed to have the space and time to contemplate what has occurred, what it means, and what you want to do. The problem is not so much unutilized space, it is the lack of utility in that space. Space Engineers has massive empty spaces as its core set... randomly generated, even. There is, however, plenty to do with that empty space. Arguably, daggerfall isn't necessarily much different from starfield in terms of world design, but the depth of mechanics makes it engaging and enjoyable. That's the obstacle starfield faces. Why should I care about exploring a planet - what is there for me to do? Even the lore seems a bit lackluster. Some have praised some of the RP aspects of starfield - and perhaps it has potential - but it just seems rather bland from a worldbuilding standpoint. It's not a simulator, not an mmo... it's just... bland. Maybe some shivering isles tier DLC could change that - but it would need to be a lot. Thankfully, they have plenty of empty space no one would complain about being turned into an actual place - so, they can do episodic DLC if they really wanted to - which could be very interesting if done right (but... let's be real... it probably won't be).

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Dark Souls makes very good use of minute long trecks along the outside of some godforsaken megastructure with nothing but your footsteps disrupting the silence, to soak in how much level there is about to be, and take in the scale of the scenery, and identity where your life is going to go downhill over the next 2 hours. You can absolutely make use of long periods of low stimulation, but you also need to give the player something to chew on while you do it. Scenery is one way, but you could also give the player things to think about in terms of philosophy or plot implications, that they need to simmer when it comes time for decisions, SMT style.

[@gmat4380]

With the Half-Life documentary that Valve just released with the 25 year anniversary thing, the dev's said the exact same thing about something having to happen every few seconds for the players to stay engaged. Amazing that after 25 years some games still don't understand that.

[@gmat4380]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I feel like Stalker did a really good job of that as well. Made you appreciate the quiet moments.

[@Duraspaz]

I flipped a postive review to a negative one, the game showed promise. Had some translation errors and they said they are working on fixing it as they where about to overhaul the English translation. Was a fun game interesting mechanics. But the date came and went they said, so we asked on community on their discord. Completely ignored. Half a year passed still nothing. Then they silently removed the English support from steam and made it be it was our own fault for buying a non english supported game and demanding english. Biggest switch to negative review and as a warning to others. Some Devs don't deserve people caring and paying for their game. And ofcourse as a year passed refunds not available. So that was a not pleasant experience

[@clarkecorvo2692]

im honestly surprised they had much goodwill left after their fallout76 odysee

[@ragzaugustus]

Bethesda didn't have any goodwill before this.

[@garytsang5673]

Oh speak for yourselves, if they release another super ultimate Skyrim 2023 edition with some new mods, lots of people will buy it AGAIN.

[@Beta12328]

They 100% did with their fanboys, if you don't think so you haven't been paying attention.

[@niofo7713]

they have so many fanboys. i remember when starfield first came out people coming to steam discussion under bg3 patches just to whine about how bg3 sucks and starfield is the greatest game ever made, it was almost funny to watch.

[@Jupa]

@@Beta12328good there’s only like 9 of them Even r/Starfield… the people that loved it during EA absolute rip it apart now. Imagine a game so bad you lose 70% of fanboys and only left with the die hard ones.

[@joshrodgers9366]

At this point in time I honestly feel like star citizen is better than starfield. The only thing starfield has star citizen doesn't is a crappy quest line. Star citizen does everything else better and you can get into it cheaper. If star citizen wasn't an on going scam and the developers weren't dragging it out to milk every last penny out of crowd funding they could have a game that's leagues ahead of starfield

[@TheRealSilencer711]

Underrated comment. It's so frustrating that Star Citizen is an ongoing scam, because if they had just decided to actively develop the game instead of falsely-marketed what it wishes it could be, then they'd completely blow everything else out there out of the water. As far as I'm concerned, both StarField and Star Citizen are blacklisted, "dead to me" pieces of software.

[@KironX1]

Can Bethesda just make a fun game? That’s all I want. Nothing more.

[@FengLengshun]

Yeah, I put Steam Review all the times, it's a good way to organize your thoughts about a game, have an archive of my thought at the time, and it might help others. I don't know if I have had a dev respond to me, but I have had conversations in my review comments.

[@wolfsokaya]

If im interested in a game, i usually go and look for the negative reviews. I find them helpful to avoid problematic games.

[@accelerator8558]

Thats bethesda for ya bois, a trash company

[@soundrogue4472]

Holy shit that's not a comment, "first"

[@raozspaz]

I actually believe that there should be an option a steam user could turn on/off that would make it to where if you play a game you have negatively reviewed for X number of hours [maybe also settable] that it would ask you with a casual steam notification if you would like to update your review or not.

[@riotangel4701]

There should have a large indicator _which version_ the review was for.

[@TrickyJebus]

It already does. Steam does that

[@raozspaz]

@@TrickyJebus I have never once had steam ask me if i wanna change my review. And ive left negative reviews on things.

[@zJoriz]

Yes, Steam definitely does this. I left a bad review for one game because of the milk cowey way they sell the hundreds of addons, each more costly than a full indie game, a decade after the game stopped being relatively pretty. This negative view doesn't mean I don't fire it up once in a while to play with the free mods. Whenever I visit the library page, there's a banner at the top asking whether I'd like to update the review, since I played x extra hours since I wrote it.

[@BungieStudios]

@@TrickyJebusYup.

[@athena1491]

if theres a DLC that just like, fixes the game.... i think that would just make me more upset at this point, because that means that they could done this the whole time, and didnt, because they thought they could take advantage of us.... and are continuing to, by charging extra money on top of the full game price to fix the thing. I dont think they can fix this game in my opinion, this watered down, loadscreen heavy experience was their endgoal, their 200,000 wordcount script just feels like a rough draft sometimes, and their engine simply cannot run what was promised or expected. I think the only way they could possibly turn the review situation around is massive updates (Like, baldurs gate level updates where the list is longer than the steam wordcount, not the "we fixed these 4 things, and next time we are gonna try to fix 4 more" they have been doing), reworks, and additions, as well as free access to any "we fixed it now dont worry" DLC that might happen given to people who already paid full price for the game... I think thats the kinda level of "We messed up we're sorry, can you give us a 6th chance to try not to disappoint you?" we are reaching IMO, cause I wont be giving them more money for this, the industry standard game price has risen, and the quality has gone down, this is not worthy of my money.

[@GratefulJello]

If you played them at launch its actually amazing to have thought how great vanilla oblivion and skyrim were to only see how terribly they aged and that can be applied to Bethesda as a whole.

[@kingdomheartsguy44]

I'm someone who loves Starfield and even I think this is a disgusting way to respond