Bidding On Gunbroker: A Cautionary Tale!

[@jamesboring6445]

Tom and Legacy Collectibles is one of very few company's who practice honesty and integrity in this field. So many people/company's who deal in this stuff will lie and exaggerate and take advantage of the less experienced collector for profit. Much respect and thanks to Legacy Collectibles for making videos like this!

[@NgJackal1990]

yeah but legacy collectibles' guns are so expensive!

[@houserental5424]

Most not few. Stop being ridiculous

[@wareagle3651]

@@mattchoppers1you should proofread your comment before posting. I can’t even understand who the “kid” is. Your friend? Or the OCD guy?

[@BenDover69-69-6]

So true

[@marcburns508]

I've seen a lot of unscrupulous dealers get scammed them selves and pass things off to another sucker when they know it isn't real. One of these d-bags even appears on TV as an "expert". His only qualification is being an over self promoting tribe member... Who happens to deal in ww2 German items... Among other items.

[@catsamazing338]

If I was bidding $20K plus, I would certainly want to see the gun in question first. No way, sight unseen ! Great commentary as always. Enjoyed it and thanks.

[@evanisaiah1000]

As a young guy having been into guns for 3 years now, this information is incredibly valuable to me. Thank you, appreciate it

[@dibbuk5730]

You make several excellent points. Especially "Everyone has to start somewhere." I have a low winning bid history, but that is because I do not often find items I am willing to bid on, and when I do, I only bid up to what the item would be worth to me.

[@owllymannstein7113]

Consider yourself lucky. I dread the unexpected "Congratulations you won" gunbroker emails.

[@FuzedBox]

@@owllymannstein7113 Haha! Man I can relate. There has been... more than one occasion where I wound up with two of the same gun. Sometimes you just get those impossible wins, and usually when you don't want it that much.

[@psychopenguin2944]

Same here

[@LaxinPhilly]

I think this is how auctions should work. I bid the same way. I've yet to win, but I'm also refusing to overpay the price in my head.

[@DuriensBane]

@@LaxinPhilly how i do stuff on ebay. Only time i bid high is on something i really really want, and that means its worth alot to me. Tho i only bid mostly on axes. But there have been times when i feel like someone is bidding it up just to bid it up.

[@MichaelMakowski2006]

Same thing happens on vintage guitar auctions - folks really need to be wary and do their homework - thanks for another great video Tom

[@imthatguy1878]

I hear shops try to say the nickle ones were officer issued and I laugh and walk away

[@SGTDuckButter]

Are you that guy that makes stuff up and then thinks he’s that smart guy?

[@imthatguy1878]

@@SGTDuckButter yeah 100%, isn't that how it works?

[@tomsherwood4650]

That is an old lie going around forever. Vets brought back guns with worn finishes and had them "customized" with plating.

[@imthatguy1878]

@@tomsherwood4650 absolutely agree, I've heard the lies of the nickle plated ones were issued to officers only with lugers, p38s, 1911s in a few shops including 2 right here in my own city

[@natural-born_pilot]

So very true and I’ve heard several other stupid and untrue comments of the like heavily used as well.

[@scottshea6927]

Great Video Tom! The world need more calling out BS when you see it.

[@mattsmith3118]

Thanks Tom. I really admire how you try and help other collectors like this and don’t care about the trolls making silly comments. People can see your business is built on honesty and respect for WW2 history rather than greed and profit (edited for chiller because he is slow!) let’s hope Legacy Collectables makes a bit of profit otherwise the business would eventually fail, basic economics. Can’t wait to see another Canadian Luger rescue video , oh and your Third Reich Luger book just arrived, thanks for signing it for me it’s a great book!

[@Chiller01]

Hopefully Legacy Collectibles is based a bit on profit. Otherwise, unless Tom is independently wealthy and enjoys losing money, the business will eventually fail.

[@mattsmith3118]

@@Chiller01 well I thought that was obvious but I’ll adjust my comment especially for you just in case you are slow. Don’t get too upset we can all see you are trying

[@Chiller01]

@@mattsmith3118 You must be fun at parties there Matt. I’ll be more respectful of your obviously sensitive nature next time.

[@DelGTAGrndrs]

@@Chiller01 right lol he’s mad over a simple comment.

[@DelGTAGrndrs]

@@mattsmith3118 cry

[@rainbow2710]

You, Sir, are a true gentleman and this is proven by your sharing of your useful information. I do the same when watching a bid and check who is bidding. Thank you.

[@sgtstr3am785]

This man's business ethics are larger than his wallet and I commend his honorable work

[@AdamosDad]

I saw a nickel plated P38 at a gun store 2 years ago, that was a real joke, the plaiting was bubbled up and it was poorly engraved, almost a scratch job. It was claimed to be a presentation gun for a famous general. I'm not an expert, but I saw giant red flags all over it.

[@Hogheadsforbreakfast]

I got on Gun Broker about 4 years ago, for 2 years I would bid on old H&R .32 revolvers, EVERY TIME my bids were winning as the auction was counting down the price would magically start climbing in $50-$100 leaps. This was the same experience I had on eGunner as well.

[@notmenotme614]

On eBay they used to be a tactic to win auctions by waiting to the very end before placing your bid. In the hope that the other bidders wouldn’t notice or would be too late to counter it. There was even 3rd party software that you could set up in advance to automatically place the bid for you in the last 5 seconds.

[@hambone950]

@@notmenotme614 thats the way to bid on ebay tho, sniping.

[@painmt651]

I have a friend who is a .32 collector. He has several. Even one 327 magnum.

[@notmenotme614]

@@painmt651 why does he have so many? Is he an octopus ?

[@riclate2013]

​@@notmenotme614the problem with that is gun broker has a counter bid timeframe. Its like 10 minutes or something, so if someone bids on an item in the last 5 seconds it will increase the auction time by 10 minutes allowing people to bid again. I tried that Ebay tactic on my first auction bidding for a 32 cal revolver.

[@whatever55fsx]

Thank you,I have seen the bidding myself on auctions,checking the bid history is one of the things I check first, thanks for confirming what I also was thinking .

[@leonardjanda6181]

Mr. Whitman got me hooked on this channel from a gun show three years ago love it you are an expert in my opinion.❤

[@Rustebadge]

Nice video. Correct info is the best medicine for all of us. I own a WW2 P-38 that was dug up from a public flower bed. It is in poor condition, presumably from being buried for a long time, but is still very cool to me.

[@itsbdubnukka]

This is endemic to all hobbies, Tom. Thanks for the lesson!

[@thEannoyingE]

It’s fascinating how deep you go into analyzing this one particular firearm. Thanks for the tips.

[@ETHRON1]

Sometimes the voice of experience combined with integrity and honor out weighs facts of the matter...such as it is here. Thank you for the lesson.

[@jerryakbar6147]

I bought my first Luger from legacy a few years ago, I wanted to put a few clips through it for fun, it didn’t feed the second round. Called the fellas , they asked me to send it back for repair , got it back in a week or two, works perfectly. Thanks legacy.

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

The guy should have also added that the pistol was captured from Hermann Goering's 3rd cousin (twice removed) 4th roommate at finishing school by his grandfather at the Battle of the Bulge.

[@robertsr.249]

That would be worth a lot of money

[@RandomInternetProfile]

Yeah but which 3rd cousin? We all know how Hans can be a little sketchy at times.

[@larryspiller6633]

That's exactly how I got mine. Got the bayonet and grenade launcher that came brand new with the pistol too. Now, for a few bucks more I could have bought the original case it all came in. Just that I wasn't sure if the case was authentic. I'm cautious that when it comes to originals, so many shysters out there.

[@robertsr.249]

@@larryspiller6633 If it was gold plated ,it had to be original

[@larryspiller6633]

@@robertsr.249 Another dead give away is if the firing pin is diamond encrusted, that's a well kept secret.

[@rfnatureboy]

Thank you for the Gun Broker info. I have bought two WW2 .22 rifles and one Model 12 and they are all excellent and I feel very lucky. I would have never thought to look at what you just showed about NR bidders. I visit your site too. Thanks again!

[@buyerenogurlfwendo2106]

Why would anyone use a .22 in WW2?

[@rfnatureboy]

@@buyerenogurlfwendo2106 They were used for training our troops, 30.06 was too expensive shell.

[@mikerueb6179]

Tom, your stuff is extremely good. It sure shows from your numbers gained in the past year..I do not collect anything, but I enjoy being educated by you...

[@danielnewman134]

Thank you for making this video. I did learn what to look for when bidding on fireams and accessories.

[@robertbenson9797]

Excellent advice and great information. Thank you for the insight.

[@americanpatriot2422]

Outstanding video and presentation

[@spangy8405]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you very very much Tom. This needed to be said and needs to be ingrained in every gun owner, seller, collector and 1st time buyer EVERYWHERE.

[@mabbrey]

tom looks out for everyone, well done

[@TheCskin26]

I check legacy everyday because I trust how they post and are always answering me if I have questions and post quality stuff

[@SpecialEDy]

I have a 1943 Mauser produced P38 Chrome/Nickel plated. Glad I only spent $600 or $700 for it on RIAC.

[@danc.3899]

Excellent video that I will re-post. This is exactly what I do when looking at a firearm on GunBroker, but could never really verbally explain it that well.

[@jerryw6699]

Excellent vid, years ago I got burned by a Gun broker seller. He advertised his guns as, "As Is, no returns." I got a non-functioning rem 700, 221 fireball. It was a nice looking gun, but had multiple problems. He refused a return and was soon out of business. From then on, I have called and spoken to almost every seller that I have boughten from. It has been a good practice, and I often gain knowledge from the seller about their firearm and also other interesting bits of information and history.

[@notmyname3883]

"boughten" is NOT A WORD. Stop saying it. Don't use "boughtened" either. Use "bought" instead. That's correct. You're welcome.

[@jerryw6699]

@@notmyname3883 Thanks, to the grammar police. My mom would have corrected me also.

[@thysonsacclaim]

@@notmyname3883 Oi. We ought wanta be able tah spake and spell as we like it.

[@GIJose]

Sure it will be listed for sale again next week.

[@stuartbracken5089]

This video, and the integrity and credibility of this gentleman, makes me want to do business with his company.

[@johnmadow5331]

I remember back in January 1978, brought Walther P-38 CYQ code that nickel plate with meteral surface bobble frame from small gun shop in Upper Darby, PA at the price of $130.00. I sold that gun for $180.00 in 1979 and the gun has to be send to FFL in NJ for $15.00.

[@jensenwilliam5434]

Thank you Tom and Randy. Thank s for teaching me!

[@JD-tn5lz]

I go to live auctions occasionally and participate in live online auctions frequently. Yes, I only deal with auction houses I know and trust. I do "get" that one dollar is worth less to some people than it is to others, but I'm always impressed by folks who get carried away emotionally with the auctions. They often pay far more than worth just to "win." My favorites are the ones who pay more for a used auction firearm that's still in production than what they would pay if they just went down to their local gunshop. Quite often it's just ignorance. Sadly enough, there are alot more people who enjoy firearms than actually know anything about firearms. I consider myself winning an auction is if I find a gem that no one else understands or appreciates and then buying it at half it's real value or near that. You have to decide prior to an auction what is your deadline no-matter-what price.

[@painmt651]

Auctions are a interesting way to try getting a good deal. Sometimes you get lucky!

[@SpliefDaGrief]

I remember seeing this on Jans LugerForum. Glad to see it was most likely just shills pumping this up. My jaw dropped to the floor when I saw the final price.

[@j.angelis6934]

Totally agree with everything you said, including that "number one" stamp..

[@switchbladefriends2637]

Not a Luger. Excellent advice here on how to spot shill bidders, and a firearm's history. But look at Timestamp 0:45, it's a Walther P-38 , and not as Tom said, a Luger. AC 43 stamps show a Walther's wartime manufacture in 1943. George Luger died 14 years before this gun design. Maybe, Tom meant to say 9mm Parabellum? 9mm is the probable caliber with this locked breech design. Being refinished, there was an attempt to pimp it and so why not also give it a trick serial number? Hey guys, all serial numbers on a German gun should match. Where's that in the video? So many shill bidders here bespeaks the audacity and integrity of the gun seller, (something Tom left unsaid).

[@dancortes3062]

Great PSA. Your right, as a general rule of thumb it's wise to avoid firearms on auction sites that say "sold as is no refund or exchange". The sellers often do this because they lied about the gun they are trying to sell and know there is a good chance someone will want their money back. A 3 to 5 day return policy shows a lot more transparency between buyer and seller and you are more likely to get the firearm in the condition it's described as. I just bought a SVT-40 that had a 3 day return policy that was listed as excellent condition. After looking the rifle over, I found out that the seller was right on the money, it looked like it hadn't been fired since its been refurbished.

[@samuestos6908]

I've never heard of this guy in this video. I see an uncommon amount integrity from him/you. I'll check all your sites regularly now for an opportunity to buy something I really enjoy from a good man.

[@Nobody-Nowhere-USA]

I am so glad you are exposing this scam, I tell people this goes on and few believe me! From now on I have a video to point to.

[@randallhunsaker5766]

Thanks for this information. Lots of refresher lessons here.

[@sgtmajtrapp3391]

I've seen that precise ploy. I also have seen sellers with no feedback listing expensive firearms copied off gunsinternational. I've notified the real owner on gunsinternational that their gun is being listed on gunbroker. Instantly that fraud seller disappears. Also no returns as you mentioned.

[@ZeeCaptainRon]

I saw this copycat fraud recently on a boat for sale on Craigslist (otherwise known as fraudslist). Super nice RHIB, yamaha powered, great price. The guys ad said it was near seattle wa. In one of the photos you could see the boat was in a brokers yard and on another boat was a brokerage sign and you could just make out the phone number. Turns out the boat is in BC Canada at a brokers, and the price was twice what the CL guy was asking. Guess he thought he could scam a deposit and run. I hate people.

[@edmoore1661]

Good tips and Thanks! I have seen items listed for a few years and when I placed a bid, viola! bids outbidding me would come in hot and heavy. Walk away after the price is beyond what common sense tells you it is worth.

[@brogeoti]

Great information as always, Tom. Like Norm Flayderman used to say, "Caveat Emptor".

[@ranchodeluxe1]

I went to a local auction that had 4 Model 52 Sporters. Three "real" ones and a Miroku. Since I wanted a shooter, I played on the Miroku. I had it with 34 seconds left at $900 when someone jumped in and bid $3900! The auction house is local and I've known the family for 30 years. I made them show me the bid history and invoice. They said the guy got confused and thought he was bidding on a pre war 52. I'm still unconvinced, but they never ripped me off before, so they get the benefit of the doubt.

[@buyerenogurlfwendo2106]

So pretty much an uneducated dumb ass robbed you of it 😂

[@jimo680]

Thanks for taking the time to do this and sharing your expertise to assist others. I was a newbie to GB and shopping BHP surplus pistols in early 2020, then things went haywire. I purchased one just before the gouging, and was very grateful for having done some homework first. With just the short amount of time I had ...to get a 'feel' for the various surplus bhp's price ranges ... I began checking bid history's when pricing went really crazy for what should have been $400 - $450 pistols. I discovered exactly what you illustrated with the bid histories. Of course, one can't prove shill bidders; but it just seemed way too coincidental. Thanks for sharing some sanity and professionalism.

[@gredw6733]

Well done...thank you for the good information.

[@columbiawarmachine9795]

This is definitely good advice

[@marcusbeck4656]

Thank you. I’ve often looked at guns on gun broker and wondered why anyone would pay as much as I’ve seen guns go for on the site… Your explanation and insight is helpful.

[@billsteele495]

……a fool and his money…… Great video!👍

[@usnchief1339]

are soon parted

[@joshuagibson2520]

"Collectors" have ruined a ton of good markets in recent years. They will pay any price necessary (without even blinking) to fill a hole in their collection. Also just as absurd are the people who try to get a certain serial number or odd feature. Because it's "collectible". The way I see it, yes, they are indeed fools.

[@Milsurpguy2000]

So glad I finished my collection years ago, I honestly feel sorry for the guys today trying to get what they want only to run into flippers and fudds like this.

[@usnchief1339]

good thing my bids are down in the low hundreds and are in need of a refresh. I don't bid for expensive guns without touching it or seeing it in person.

[@GH-cp9wc]

Great synopsis, thanks!

[@tomsherwood4650]

IF it was factory engraved and then plated, that might be a very rare or authentic item. You are right about the bringbacks getting plated. I had a PP that was originally a late war "gray ghost" that had been repolished and blued by the person that brought it back. Obviously felt the phosphate finish was butt ugly. Of course that ruined value. But they left the matching mag gray.

[@lloydfortner1510]

Excellent information. Thanks

[@davidboese6276]

Well said. Very informative. Thank you. Good knowledge and I believe you are correct

[@ChrisH930S]

Bought a nice p38 from him last yr. Love it, shoots great. Now just need a post war p1;)

[@freedomisntfree131]

Thanks for the honesty and the education.

[@rodneycooke6538]

Great tutorial and video! I’ve always suspected some of these things but you nailed it. Please do more on this topic and GB!

[@SaltyMaverick]

Thank you for the advice. It's much appreciated.

[@budm9982]

Very interesting. I've made some purchases on GB but lost more auctions than won. LOL! This is something I'll be looking for in the future.

[@notmenotme614]

I’ve experienced this on eBay a lot, I’d get into a bidding war with another person who mysteriously doesn’t give up, he keeps on out bidding me. …Until I no longer match his bid and he accidentally ends up winning… Then when the auction ends, I conveniently get an unbelievable email from the Seller saying the other person has just backed out (despite him bidding 10 times) and do I still want to buy their product? No thank you, I’m dropping it like a hot potato and running a mile!

[@derekp2674]

Thanks Tom, that was really interesting. Back here in the UK, when we were allowed ready access to classic handguns, I was lucky enough to own and shoot an ex-WW2 P38 for a time. Once I had mastered hand loading for it, it shot quite reliably. Its accuracy was never particularly impressive but I could see why it made a great service pistol, especially by WW2 standards.

[@Garth2011]

Yes, it makes no sound sense that one bidder would bid against himself 4 or 5 times in a row without any other bids in between. Fairly obvious the entire sale was hot air.

[@jerryw6699]

That is just proxy bidding, the other bidder was bumping the bid to see how far his proxy bid was up.

[@sergeantbigmac]

@@jerryw6699 I was hoping someone would say this. Its not automatically a red flag depending on how the system is set up. Many online auctions allow a seller to put multiple bids in against another bidder. What youre seeing is one bidder incrementally increasing their bid against another bidder who presumably put in a much higher bid. They keep putting a bid in until they beat the other persons, which might take several tries. This is very very common on Ebay for example. Its totally legit in that circumstance. Im not saying these arent shill accounts I mean 99% sure they totally are, but this itself isn't the red flag you think it is...

[@HgRoller]

Those are automatic bids you 1diot.

[@rockysdad5949]

Very good info I really appreciate it Thank You!!!

[@1966gtoguy]

I bid 20k and want an apology ! LOL only kidding keep up the great videos ....

[@lazybeaver]

Thanks, I didn't know about the bid history and ratings. I've tried to buy from gunbroker, but when the bids start getting ridiculous, I let it go.

[@monitor1862]

Thank you for the video. I just started looking on Gun Broker, and it was helpful.

[@1001CP]

Love this Legacy site for the amazing showing and history of various firearms- especially Lugers! I wish I had more and always looking but I have a fav 43 byf P38 that still shoots like a laser and double date 1916/1920 DWM Luger. Legacy is very legit and professional as are several I have used over the years for fair price, great communication, and naturally quick/professional packaging and delivery. They also stand by their sales. I am a C&R Dealer/Collector that loves to preserve the history of conflict arms from around the world in a small family collection.I was very lucky on most of my purchases to get more rare and unique firearms, again because of great open and honest communication. It sure made it actually fun and exciting.

[@rolandjohnson5090]

Thanks for all of the information! Very usefull!!

[@st9041]

Outstanding ! Have bought from you before and trust your advise .

[@lengazz]

thanks for the info---like your style.

[@eloiseharbeson2483]

A friend of mine had his father's P-38 that was nickel-plated. Must have been pretty rough. Almost all the markings have been polished away. Broke my heart to see it. Would rather have seen the rust and pitting.

[@simonjones6128]

Interesting Tom love the story

[@whippy107]

I love your videos and have enjoyed doing business with you in the past as well! Thank you so much.

[@chrisdikovics3580]

Thanks for the education !

[@thefleaflop]

Excellent job young man.... Totally agree with your assessment of this auction and bidding in general... Thanks for putting a pin in it. Happy 4th!!!.

[@dustyfarmer]

Several decades ago when I used to advertise for & collect WWII Japanese swords every now & then I would be offered a sword that had after war modifications, some so bad like bench grinder sharpening on the blade or a poorly stored, rusty sword cleaned with sandpaper with a re-wrapped handle in whatever was available with a freshly painted scabbard. I would look it over and ask how much they were seeking for it. Then the capture story of the sword was worth every bit of the soon to be delivered asking price. I would smile & say "It's not something I collect" & hand it back to them.

[@protuzul206]

An interesting conclusion; i've seen some guns for absurd prices, and never even considered that the seller would be artificially inflating their listing. Hopefully Gunbroker gets wise to this, and bans the FFL from selling on their site.

[@ZeeCaptainRon]

GB won't ban that, as they make money every transaction and the more the transaction, the more they make.

[@Nighthawk1966]

Great info Tom !

[@ConTheDon187]

I think you're right about all the fake bids and stuff

[@kugellehr]

it's so sad that so many people want to scam others, and its in every walk of life and every buisness. Thank you for this lesson!

[@randallkelley3599]

Thank you very much. I learned some important stuff!

[@leedreddcocozza6437]

Thanks for the tips Tom!

[@johnmorton6512]

Thank you so much for the information.

[@ladeeneboys6948]

Very informative! Thank you

[@Scremndemon1]

And Tom, is keeping it real

[@chrisjr88fan]

I was so happy when I recieved my Rockola carbine from Legacy! It was better than described!

[@operationalaf3414]

I could listen to this guy for hours!!! Lol

[@thunderandrain09]

Thank you for doing this video. I think most guys, when they know something about the pea shooter they are interested in are suspicious when they see something like this. This is dishonest and has no place in business. Come on people, don’t you know dishonesty will eventually come back around to you?

[@Happ465]

Outstanding educational video. I don’t buy collectibles but I have noticed some crazy prices being bid. For instance more than once I’ve seen bids higher then other same new gun with a buy now price. I always decide on a price (adding in shipping an FFL Fee) so I know what my price is really going to be. I know I will pay sales tax anywhere so that is not in my calculation.

[@blackpowder4016]

I've seen this a couple of times on Gunbroker. Gun ends up being relisted in a couple of days because the shill won and of course, didn't pay. Ebay is notorious for shill bidding. I drop out when the price goes over my fair valuation. I'm not looking for unicorns. There will always be another.

[@SuperVorpalbunny]

This happens (shill bidders) at most all "bid" sites including eBay, Gun Broker and other such sites. I usually do not "bid" guns; I will buy it as seller's offered price, or I may make an offer if that's an option. Do your research and know what an item is really worth...not just what a seller is "asking." I would agree: if you do not have experience, do not "bid" a gun. This is very informative video. I hope people take in the information.

[@hermittao]

Thank You for providing me with some valuable information. I'm here to learn and perhaps one day I'll feel sufficiently confident to bide.

[@painmt651]

I looked in shops for two years, and auctions. Could not find a CZ527 carbine in 7.62x39mm…. Was getting ready to order one online and at a serious premium. They quit making the model. About six months later I found one at a gun show…. It was marked $875, which was not a bad price…. I walked away with it for less than $700…. You can’t touch one for less than $1200, now. It is light as a 10/22! Such a sweet shooter!!! I will die before I sell it. Cheapest rifle to shoot, other than a 22

[@kennethbailey2616]

Thanks for the advice

[@mattlarson9897]

I think you are slightly wrong about the bidders. I think you are correct about the ones with no feedback. But i think you are wrong about the older accounts with feedback. I hardly buy off of GB but i do check it all the time. If i were to buy something today, it would probably have been a year since my last purchase. I also have not received feedback from every purchase that i made. But again i think you are correct about the new bidders.

[@jwhiskey242]

I saw the gun in question on Gb, and no provenance. Without the original finish, its just a decent shooter. As a side to the GI's getting guns nickeled, it may have been done for rust protection. Apparently theft of souvenir pistols, by fellow GI's was was a real problem. My father told me he had his pistol nickeled so it could be hidden and not constantly cleaned. He stated that if someone knew you had it, there was a good chance it would get stolen. I subsequently met two WW2 veterans that had pistols stolen from them after the war. One was on active duty in Germany, and the other was on a ship on the way home.