Big Win for Retired Law Enforcement Officers in NJ

[@martelltraininggroup]

5 Beginner Concealed Carry Mistakes to Avoid kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZLXk4OepLqcos0

[@mustang460789]

Hopefully, we will get sensitive places win as well in NJ.

[@joep6727]

You are NOT armed under NJ permit, therefore NOT hampered by sensitive places, of course just planes and government buildings that screen.

[@Joe-oo3xv]

I sure hope saw

[@PSimon-xr3pw]

@@joep6727what exactly do you mean by that?

[@joep6727]

NJ always has to go kicking and screaming. Unreal we have these ELECTED officers who are LAWYERS who can't decipher a clearly written Federal Law. But no, they get a hissy fit and waste time and MONEY trying to harm their OWN retired cops from being part of the force multiplier the Congress intended through LEOSA. Damn fools, guided by a foolish governor AND certain police "OFFICIALS" who put virtue signaling ahead of proper management. What a shame. And so HAPPY they got the final smack down today. Huge shout out to FLEOA and (my) NJ FOP, well done folks, well done.......

[@MegaBait1616]

Cause NJ keeps voting Blue which is why I moved to NC .... Now have my CCW and can buy ammo in a gas station..

[@spencemiller5836]

Thank you for the update!!! Will pass this around to all that need to see and hear it...

[@martelltraininggroup]

Much appreciated

[@dan9125]

Good info, Steve! Well done!

[@martelltraininggroup]

Glad it was helpful!

[@anthonygerber8261]

It's crazy that even retired LEOs have a tough time carrying in NJ

[@doniyel]

I want to say congrats “but” this should be for all Americans who are law abating. People want to carry guns because they can’t carry cops

[@MrPoserina]

I agree. There should be no protected class when it comes to the right to protect yourself. As long as you are a law abiding citizen, you should have the same rights as everyone else.

[@robertortiz8540]

@doniyel, As a result of the Bruen decision that protects all Americans, if a private citizen decides to apply for a concealed carry permit under New Jersey Statute 2C:58-4 and meets all the requirements, the Chief of Police will issue the permit.

[@JA51711]

Thank you for the update

[@PMCKELL761]

HOLLOW points good to go too... Imagine, being against a round that Won't go through the "target" and injure someone else

[@DG-fe4ht]

Well, there’s a $125 bucks down the drain.. I just renewed my NJRPO in December lol. Thx Lt for updates!! You should join TO FBP.

[@martelltraininggroup]

You're welcome!

[@tankchinita]

As a retired LEO who from NJ and residing in NJ, - can I carry more then 10 rounds? - can I carry hallow points? - do I still have to qualify 2x a year? under LEOSA. And also, the same questions under RPO.

[@jb6027]

No, Yes, No.

[@DG-fe4ht]

@@jb6027 Steve, pls correct these incorrect answers..

[@PPMKING394]

@@DG-fe4ht what’s incorrect? The answer appears to be correct.

[@hdrvman]

Good news! Thank you again Lieutenant.

[@martelltraininggroup]

You're welcome!

[@jmyguzzi]

So to carry under LEOSA a NJ resident you need to carry your retired ID and a screenshot or hard copy of your recent qual sheet? Any other documentation needed?

[@martelltraininggroup]

Yes. You are correct. That's all you need under LEOSA. 1 Qualification within the last 12 months.

[@jmyguzzi]

Thanks LT.

[@charlesgroves3096]

Is there any age limit under LEOSA? This is good news and thanks for passing it on.

[@DG-fe4ht]

No

[@joep6727]

No age limit, qualify and good to go.

[@RayR0041]

I have a question if you carry under LEOSA are you still exempt from the 10 round capacity law? When you read the law it states that retired law enforcement can carry up to 15 round capacity. I have had a few Officer disagree that only RPO can carry 15, and LEOSA had to use 10 round mags.

[@martelltraininggroup]

Under LEOSA, they have not addressed magazine capacity so I would stick to 10 round limit under LEOSA. Under RPO, however, you can carry up to 15 round magazines as long as gun is "registered" with NJSP (on your qualification sheet).

[@Borriqua1]

Thank God!!!

[@robertortiz8540]

@Borriqua1, The New Jersey RPO was signed into law on April 8, 1997, by Governor Christine Todd Whitman. The Federal LEOSA was signed into law on July 22, 2004, by President George Bush.

[@SauerOldMan55]

Thanks for all your updates , I am getting conflicting info on LEOSA and sensitive locations , does the sensitive location no carry laws apply to LEOSA carry?

[@martelltraininggroup]

You're welcome! All the restrictions and sensitive locations with the new anti-carry law pertain to permits issued under NJS 2C:58-4, not LEOSA. There are some questions about LEOSA restrictions that will hopefully be cleared up in the current LEOSA bill (LEOSA Reform Act of 2024) that is in process.

[@Chuck883]

Praise the Lord. This is excellent. Thanks Sarge.

[@martelltraininggroup]

You are very welcome

[@MichaelGlennglennimages]

this should be the end of this one. NJ would be foolish to ask for en banc

[@ThomasEichler-p2w]

This is good news for me. Now, how do I requalify in NJ ?

[@jmyguzzi]

What locations are good to go under RPO but not LEOSA?

[@larryleve4231]

Larry NJ-How many PTCs where there in NJ before Bruen and the NJ law change?

[@martelltraininggroup]

Not too many. I would say somewhere between 300-600 a year and most were for armed security purposes -with stipulation that they could only carry while working. NJ only had a select few with carry permits prior to Bruen.

[@0321recon]

Great job sir. I pressed the firearms unit for an update recently. Although no name on the email. The unit did confirm the Third Circuit ruling 22-2209. However, and in writing, they say that NJ retirees still may not carry hollow points - and they are still fighting on the RPO front saying "LEOSA/HR218 allows for hollow point ammunition, however, New Jersey law does not for retired officers. So, if you carry hollow point ammunition you run the risk of being charged with a violation of New Jersey law. "The Retired Police Officers permit to carry program" only applies to retired New Jersey Officers who currently have a NJ address, so you would not fit that description. So you should follow the 10 round rule." I'll email you their complete response.

[@martelltraininggroup]

Thanks. Much appreciated!

[@chrismusso6569]

when can I carry in a bar/grill as long as not drinkking?

[@gsmcd]

How about the 10 round limit?

[@martelltraininggroup]

In the 28 page opinion, there was no mention of magazine capacity. For that reason, I would limit magazine capacity to 10 rounds to be safe. I know there's a bill making its way around with more amendments to LEOSA. I'm not sure if magazine capacity will be addressed in those amendments. However, there is pending court action (lawsuit) against NJ for magazine (and "assault" weapon) limitations. I believe oral arguments for motions are scheduled sometime this year.

[@dane5896]

NJFOP👍

[@nboatr]

Hello Sir, I conceal carry in NJ; question: Are Federal Syntech 9MM (Red or Purple) kind of legal to conceal carry in my EDC. Thank you for your Excellent informational videos.

[@martelltraininggroup]

Thanks for the comments! On the NJSP website, they state polymer tip ammo is legal. In fact, it's a great alternative to hollow point. While they don't list Federal Syntech specifically, they list several other polymer tipped-type ammo such as; Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition. I would say the Federal Syntech falls into this category.

[@starburstmodels]

So only qualified retired PO's that are residents of NJ are covered under the recent ruling? what about out of state qualified retired officers traveling through NJ Exempt from High capacity restrictions as stated on the HR-218 permit. I don't think there is a police officer active or retired in this country that hasn't trained and qualified with hollow point ammunition. What have the NJ law makers been thinking about? Any one who knows any thing about ballistics knows that solid point jacketed ammo is more likely to pass though a violent assailant with the potential to cause unintended injury or damage, these law makers create more problems than necessary, HR-218 was put in place to allow the most qualified and trained people the ability to intervene given a bad situation. It's one government sanction going against another, the whole idea that any state can make up there own rules is counter productive.

[@kahunaal1631]

Congrats to all the LEOs who respect the Constitution and acted accordingly. Meh to the rest that don’t and went along to get along.

[@mrmichael20]

so retired guys still can't carry under hr 218 if they want to work as a security. They would still need the rpo.

[@DG-fe4ht]

Yes, every security firm in nj will still want rpo & SORA.

[@martelltraininggroup]

Yes. If you want to work armed security, you need an RPO or permit to carry a handgun.

[@IowaBowHunter]

@@martelltraininggroupHi I am subscribed to your Channel and do enjoy watching all your content. My question is, can you confirm that when carrying under LEOSA/HR218 and you are a non resident of NJ, can you carry hollow point ammunition? Local sheriffs office that does LEOSA/HR-218 qualification is still telling guys that hollow points is not allowed in New Jersey. Can you please advise the latest update? Thanks.

[@Str33tglide_21]

SLEO 2 are protected under LEOSA? just wanted to know since everything with SLEO 2 is always a question. Thank you for all you do excellent channel

[@swat3708]

NO

[@martelltraininggroup]

Thank you for your comments! Since the SLEO 2 only has police powers (of arrest) during working hours, I would say they are not protected under LEOSA.

[@robertortiz8540]

@@swat3708, It should be noted that I'm not an attorney and anything I say below shall not be construed as legal advice, or if you have any legal questions, please consult with a licensed attorney. 1. Judge Steve Mannion, Attorney Thomas Roughneen, and Senior Legal Instructor Anthony Bandiero interpret Federal LEOSA law differently. According to them, the LEOSA law applies to Class Two officers because the law does not specify whether or not an officer must be full-time or part-time, whether they must be paid or unpaid, nor does it specify whether the officer must have police powers at all times. 2. According to Steve Mannion, Thomas Roughneen, and Anthony Bandiero the LEOSA law does not require a "qualified law enforcement officer" to be full-time or part-time. In the LEOSA law, part-time, reserve, and auxiliary officers are viewed in the same way as full-time officers, as long as they are on duty or called to service and they meet the requirements, even if inactive at the time.

[@martelltraininggroup]

Great info. Thanks for the comments! I do believe they removed "full time" from the requirements during one of the initial amendments to the original HR 218. However, keep in mind that when LEOSA doesn't address an issue, such as magazine capacity, it defaults back to state law. So in the case of magazine capacity, my interpretation would be 10 round limitation since that's current law and LEOSA doesn't specifically address it. So, the question is, does a NJ SLEO 2 qualify under LEOSA's definition of qualified law enforcement officer? If we look at Title 52:17B-4.9, NJ's definition of a "law enforcement officer," we see they define one "who is employed as a permanent full-time member of an enforcement agency." In this case, it seems to me that SLEO 2's don't qualify under LEOSA since they are not "permanent full-time" members. I know some may have a different interpretation. NJ definitely has some laws that don't make a lot of sense. For example, under RPO you can't carry hollow point ammo but can have up to 15 rounds. Under LEOSA you can carry hollow point but only up to 10 rounds. If there's any doubt, you do always have the option of applying for a permit to carry for carrying when not working.

[@PPMKING394]

Here are the requirements for active officer to be protected under LEOSA: (c) As used in this section, the term "qualified law enforcement officer" means an employee of a governmental agency who-- (1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under section 807(b) of title 10, United States Code (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice); (2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm; (3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers; (4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm; (5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and (6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm. (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency. So if the active SLEO 2 meets the requirement above they’re covered. This NJ appellate court case may be helpful to answer your question: www.nj.com/camden/2022/12/nj-court-wipes-out-gun-conviction-of-federal-officer-over-error-by-trial-judge.html?outputType=amp The opinion in the appellate case noted the following on pg 25: Moreover, nowhere in LEOSA's statutory language does it require the firearm to be issued by the law enforcement agency, nor does it require the law enforcement officer to be "on duty." Where specific language is absent, "[w]e must presume that the Legislature intended the words that it chose and the plain and ordinary meaning ascribed to those words."…. Our interpretation is amply supported by LEOSA's legislative history. The Senate report discussing LEOSA states: A law enforcement officer is a target in uniform and out; active or retired; on duty or off. [LEOSA] . . . is designed to protect officers . . . and to allow thousands of equipped, trained and certified law enforcement officers, whether on-duty, off-duty or retired, to carry concealed firearms in situations where they can respond immediately to a crime across state and other jurisdictional lines.

[@raymond3855]

I have a LEOSA for several years and I'm careful as to where I can carry my weapon. I also have a State of Alabama CCW although a CCW is not required in this state. I bet kamala will change this if she is elected President. Go vote on Nov 5th.

[@Madmac96]

The state PBA didn’t take part in the lawsuit, because the state president has his head firmly up Murphy’s ass. Disgraceful.

[@robertortiz8540]

@Madmac96, In addition, I would like to point out that Pat Colligan not only did not participate in the FLEOA and the FOP lawsuit against New Jersey , but that rumor has it that in February 2017, at the State PBA meeting in Atlantic City, Pat Colligan stated he opposed the carrying of an 80-year-old retired officer.

[@starrider4878]

I’m a Leo ♌️ 😂

[@bunkyayars1179]

That’s just wonderful!!! Retired civil servants can protect themselves but the masters cannot.

[@DG-fe4ht]

Huh? This doesn’t even make any sense lol

[@mypage7653]

we the people are the masters and the public servants are the retired public servants lol @@DG-fe4ht

[@MichaelGlennglennimages]

Now to use this language in legal arguments for the masses. It is similar to all men are created equal,..that phrase was a pesky problem until its logic could no longer be ignored.

[@jameslyons6655]

If NJ would take a small portion of the energy they use to go after retired LEOs and law abiding citizens to go after criminals instead we might all be able to walk the streets in peace.

[@jerryg2073]

NJ is a tyrannical 'State.' What about the stupid HP ammo restrictions? Why can active police officers carry it but not retired/civilians with carry permits? For potential liability and safety reasons, as a CCW holder in my 'blue' State, I use the exact ammo LEOs carry.