THE BIG DEBATE SEASON 10 EPISODE 7 | MASCULINITY

[@xolamahlati7649]

Jackie in a thinker. Sadly most here, including the host, either dont understand him or are not interested to understand him.

[@smngvncnt8017]

Jacky was just intellectual miles ahead of them. His points strictly went over their heads.

[@oagengmsiza5760]

We need to acknowledge the fact that Jackie is raising some good points(Not entirely thou) He's talking or rather focusing on the historical side of what might have contributed to toxic Masculinity. Dr and Mandisa are also right-they are focusing on the current state-on men continuing to perpetuate the same things that were done to them. If only we can consider both their views-we can come up with a solution.

[@ezerbia]

1. Jacky's points are valid. But everyone else is talking over one another. So this is not a constructive DEBATE. 2. There is nothing wrong in someone referring to women as our women. Say a war breaks out or disaster falls and then you report 'our women are safe, our children are safe, our young people are safe, our men are safe.

[@ndube4589]

Lesedi of Borite Africa i was really shocked when they took offense to “our women” and interpreted it out of context

[@mkholisisompeta9494]

Jacky is too deep none of them understood a bit of what he said.. Respect Jacky

[@mphomofokeng7113]

Jacky is 100% correct, if we can all agree that the poverty, and many social ills today are a result of the historic injustice, Why are we able to deny the fact that history has a huge role in this.Women especially black women can never claim to have suffered equally with the black men.Slave masters didnt choose the strongest black woman but the man, even during the apartheid regime women where never forced to live away from their families but black men were. Yes they faced their struggles but it was never equal,they were pardoned a lot of pain that black men experienced.Why do black women want to bring the notion that black men are inherently trash and its solely their fault. Women raise men, if the men are trash then whose good job is that? Lets all take responsibility for this life.

[@zuberincorporated7261]

The problem is that no one is coming up with a solution everyone is licking their wounds.

[@xinyorixahumba6307]

Because you have the liberty to chose

[@lungelwamambesigoje7846]

We are not denying that men faced oppression. The issue is when men rape us and blame history. How? And it’s not even a poverty issue men who have money who can have consensual sex with many women still choose to rape.

[@sitdownstandup91]

"Women especially black women can never claim to have suffered equally with the black men" are you joking? Men have been and still are the oppressors. Women have been oppressed throughout history, the whole world over.

[@RastaAfricanGentleman]

Nice show and great to hear what people thought during this episode. However I dont believe in all men being trash nor men suffering from toxic musculanity. This is the lack of musculanity and hence the issues in society we see today. This also goes to say there is no such thing as toxic femininity but basically a lacl of femininity. Raise a boy the right way, see him be a man. Raise a girl the right way, see her be a woman. The only rare cases can be when we talk of LGBTQI+ group which I am not exposed to. Lets all be accountable for our behaviours and futures. Going foward we will avoid dating because we fear each other. Today I fear women and I make sure I avoid them from things I have heard of them. That is a trauma to me and not generalising who women are

[@zilungilenjaza7314]

Redi is killing this show. She dissapoints every time! Bring Siki back. It's okay to take a stand against a debate but the point of it should be to allow even those problematic opinions to be voiced so they are addressed. I doubt any of the men and women who embrace and enable toxic masculinity will leave the room reformed in their thinking. Hay maaaan

[@nondumisondhlovu9181]

I fully agree with you. She is very biased in facilitating, and she does it all the time. I haven't watched the show, but I can sense it coming

[@user-yj2em2wi2s]

You as a women should be proud of reddi and her views because toxic masculinity affects you more than men. So reddi already taking a side in. This debate is a good thing

[@ronaldosimb4650]

Jackie is on point. brave a courageous.

[@dakalosingo322]

Jacky is correct, we cant deal with the problem without knowing the root of it, all the participants in the show are just trying to deal with the symptoms of the problem.

[@jessiebrandon2040]

May God bless the African nation in America and around this world we are of the African nation in America matters it was kidnapped from Africa and brought to him America matters we was sold as slaves matters we're not just black in America we are the nation of Africa in America matters we have been victimized by All the other Nation in America and around this world matters we are the only nation that has been victimized for centuries we are yet been victimized and kidnapped from our country are people who are still in Africa are still being victimized by The other Nation and they ask us what about the other Nation don't their lives matter all lives matter but right now the other nations are not being victimized by us by The other Nation the other nations victimized African Nation and taking everything that belongs to us they are by rape the land rape our families and now they're trying to force homosexuality on our family so let me just tell you something men are GOD Glory, it's a fact that the African man has been doing all he can to be a man but the odds are stacked against him the gates of hell is coming against him the African man GOD made man man did not make himself PSALM 100: 1-5 The Nation of Africa matters GOD gave us that land God gave every Nation their own land there are some requirement that the Nation of Africa must do we must return to GOD the living GOD I have a faith has been overthrowed by The other Nation trying to make us believe that GOD doesn't exist, the prophet Moses in the Bible was married to a Ethiopian woman he had two sons by her Moses only had one wife and she was a black woman for African woman and this is Africa read your Bible if you don't have one all you rich Africans in America and in Africa send Bibles to Africa have Bible reading classes get some black teachers to teach him somebody that believe in GOD GOD is a spirit He owns the blood that run through our veins He owns the breath that we breathe GOD owns the heart that beat in our chest, someone may be saying what GOD got to do with it everything is about GOD everything you got you won't and is about GOD, GOD want the African Nation to return to Him, All Nation must return to GOD, read your Bible read it look up the Nation but most of all read the Old testament and the New testament but we the African nation needs to have Bible reading classes in their churches in their schools, everybody's not going to college everybody's not college merchandise and that's okay but they must have training school school the teach people hair nails electrician how to build a house and it needs to start in the 6gradeon through the 12th grade and when they finish they will have a skill they would be qualified already most of these children are not going to make it through school if they can't get a job before they get out of school so much abuse in America a lot of these white folk kids get a job and they don't have a whole lot of education but they make it hard for black people cuz we don't own the business they burn our cities down 26 cities they burn down and many other cities they are burned down and blowed up they never want us to be prosperous they are the jealous people they don't think we deserve anything one white lady say that black people is jealous of white folks I beg the difference we are not jealous of them we just like to be able to survive and have a good a good life too and live peaceful I really did like it when we had our own community but they never want us to have our own community they have a lot of us we are hard-working people in America I worked in the fields with my daddy and my sisters and brothers when I was a young woman I loved it too I didn't get to go to school too much but God did bless me to learn to read and write I could have been better but it takes the parents to invest in their children and my dad didn't have much money but now we know that the nation must invest in the children the nation of Africa teach them about God the almighty God has good character He's a righteous GOD you must trust GOD heal the only hope if you want to write a future, but you must help each other build those homes we must invest in each other

[@RicksPhatPharm-vw2lb]

Sold by other blacks, Nigeria specifically... didn't even bother reading the rest but you speak of God and yet denounce His patriarchy? African Americans are the same all over the world perpetual victims who thrive off racism

[@tshilidzimusekwa9726]

Debaters who don't want to learn from others 🙄🙄🙄

[@emmanuele1143]

The reaction to Jacky’s point of view by the audience is the perfect example of what men are going through these days. Whether you’re an ally or not.

[@gugudadacindy-carolmaphumu3822]

Jacky is a special child 😅 even in our class wayenje 🙈🙉

[@siyamjwara6305]

Lol do u know him? Please subscribe on my KZbin

[@carcher3279]

@1:57 😅😅🤣 Hilarious! Eyes bugging out! At the sound of her name!

[@nondumisondhlovu9181]

It really baffles me that women are afforded individuality whereas men are blanketed under the actions of some

[@mthokozisisangweni-rm9lb]

I wish Dr Umar Johnson was here.

[@BaccendBuddah_]

Some women are more of father figure n man then some of the men will ever be

[@MaverickAoko]

No woman can teach a man how to be what SHE IS NOT. Only a man can teach a boy how to be a man

[@GtaBillionaire]

The other thing is, Jackie has a point. GBV is a problem globally but why is it that it is at vile levels in South Africa? the other places close in statistics to South Africa also have a similar history

[@phenotypeb6843]

Violence in general is high in South Africa for every woman murdered 4 men are murdered

[@thato596]

Jackie is right

[@yonelax2587]

Is it me or was Jackie being cut a lot?

[@fortunechego3216]

Great show, very serious topic but I doubt that anyone will leave the debate reformed simply because of the host's bias.

[@mogoleserogole6903]

I respect Redi, but she really has failed this debate as an 'impartial' facilitator because it clearly had a single sided tone as she came across as being very biased in how she handled both sides of the subject at issue. Also it seems none of the people who came to the platform to debate weren't there to both express their views and sincerely listen to opposing or differing views as would be of a fair debate but rather they were there to talk down on everyone holding a different view while forcefully imposing their preconceived notions on everyone. The attitude displayed by them was that of being dismissive and closed minded and Redi facilitated this through her own lack of objectivity, fairness and balance. Furthermore, the topic in itself seemed a bit problematic to me because it presupposed that a stance on the truthfulness of the subject in question has already been taken in advance so that it's suggested assertion that "maleness" is toxic rendered those participating in the debate liable to being of a predisposed bias against any differing view because the truthfulness of the topic became a foregone conclusion. This defeats the whole purpose of a debate, which is supposed to be an exercise of not only persuading others to buy into your own views on whatever subject of discussion but also to being open minded and reasonable enough to having yours changed. This was not really a debate, it was a lecture, a group of angry people lecturing others about their opinions on the male specie would be a more accurate phrase to describe it.

[@SiviweSiyo-il7kd]

Thank You so much for this comment @mogoleserogole6903 You understand what a debate is.

[@oagengmsiza5760]

When you are privileged equality comes off as an oppression.

[@engagewithme162]

Can we please find a new host for the big debate, Redi is just destroying the whole debate, its obvious that she is being baised, she needs to be neutral in such things..she is not the one debating, she is the host of the show hhao

[@espadamt8839]

This woman twists people's words like nobody's business

[@jonkermotumi9473]

EspadaMT she’s extremely biased

[@magivasgiva612]

TRUE. some people the only thing they know is to oppose, and opposing even right things.

[@GtaBillionaire]

why didn't they have any specialists on behavioral psychology?

[@xolani2321]

These men were not doing justice to this discussion . They made the team lose 😔.

[@singofhulufhelo]

Its not about Winning or losing

[@taolomatseka5205]

They did no good to the debate they trying to be politically right

[@sibongisenisimelane1677]

This is realy sad. The young gentleman is explaining the problem with Man but people can't hear him. We can talk all we want bt until we change the system. We are headed for disaster. One needs to understand that our very own way of life is influenced. Our thoughts are not true too. To go forward properly the past needs to be confronted

[@emmanuele1143]

Great show. However, my faith in humanity have been shattered for the last 5 years. It is hard to understand how the majority of people can easily be lead through a false ideology. People forget how to think for themselves. Last, the statement “Men are trash is an utterly divisive statement to lead such discussion in our community. Making such a statement as this, officially takes the other party’s humanity away. That is a very dangerous way to move our society forward. Extremist is at an all time high as of late. People need to start thinking for themselves.

[@sabelotsambo7180]

I totally get Jackie's point. He's not against the #MenAreTrash movement. Quite frankly he is for it. All he's saying is that, as black people, we cannot effectively deal with all these issues that are contributing to our landlessness, poverty and inequality until we deal with what started our misery in the first place, which is colonialism. If it wasn't for the coloniser that came to Africa we wouldn't be here. Therefore, instead imagining a patriarchy free Africa, lets imagine an Afrika found upon African values as opposed to Eurocentric values.

[@carcher3279]

@36:39 afro's on point! 😍

[@philaniwelcome7249]

The host don't understand Jackie because she don't want to understand him. Jackie is on point.

[@matomegift]

I agree with jackie!

[@philaniwelcome7249]

So it's okay for a woman to say 'MY MAN' but never right for a man to say 'MY WOMAN', 🙄

[@phenotypeb6843]

Feminist logic

[@phindilemasanabo7759]

The biggest mistake in this debate was isolating the institution of patriarchy in S.A because you don't really solve the problem without knowing what underpins it. In as much that is fundamental, we also need to look at ways to solve the problem. In as much as there is a struggle for us women but we should also look at the pain that black men are facing. From this debate I learnt that we have just been to caught up in our struggle that we don't know and to some extent we don't wanna know their struggles. In as much as we want to be radical and point out what the black male society has done to us we shouldn't not totally forget their struggle. We all agree that racism was institutionalized by colonialism but we can't agree that patriarchy was also institutionalized. It's essentially the same thing as saying that yes in history black people were made to suffer but we past that, when we not really. So nathi let's acknowledge but not use it as an excuse for toxic masculinity.

[@ndube4589]

Phindile Masanabo i also got to see that just because the man goes through different challenges than women...then women in this debate trivialize it and call it superficial because they compare the pains and so don’t really want to here the pain of the black man because its just another excuse. And as a woman im glad u saw that too. I do also believe if we speak from a place of love and not angry it will help men to also dig deeper within themselves and become aware of how women suffer through the hands of men. Im also sorry how we men systematically abuse women. The solution will be found when we both really listen to each other to comprehend not just respond. I felt this was a gender war debate more than how do we really come together and solve these social ills in society.

[@ndube4589]

One thing this debate ignored is that we all draw our ideologies of genders or family structures and society norms from our beliefs/religion and because of that certain things they will never agree on. Asking someone who believes there are only 2 genders to tear that belief down to find a solution is a sneaky way to make them abandon their belief for yours. We need to respect there are certain things will not agree on like the make up of gender etc but the main focus is how do we in our differences respect and love each other as human beings.

[@Shola_Transcend]

Great show. The intro statement is a little divisive, borderline offensive. I also find not everybody has been listening to others and there was some partiality even from the presenter. The bulky figure doctor is really well spoken, but sometimes blind to other's perspectives. If I knew him, I would think Jamil Khan's second part interventions are pure LGBTQ activism.

[@renny6151]

Nothing wrong with LGB.

[@BlackOxymoron]

Why people hating on Jackie? the dude is quite nuance and typical nonintellectual South Africans or should i say typical South Africans who do not like hearing the truth dismiss him rather then counter his points.... soooo much wrong with this debate, wait scratch that this is not a debate it is a defamation of men. the host is despicable, how can you call yourself a host of a debate yet be partisan to 1 side? actually show your prejudice, hate and disingenuous ways. what these women and host have shown me a s a men is that you hate me as a man, you want me to submit to you, forever apologise yet you won't accept it, forever atone as it won't end since i CHOOSE to be male after all and that i as a man am not an individual rather a collective. i am responsible for other men... absolutely poor, hence there won't be peace, this debate made me not respect these type of women, it made me more resentful, it yielded no positive outcome. as for women earning less, nonsense!!! look up that Ipsos study its methodology is incomplete it doesn't account for senior/junior, work experience, level of education, types of jobs... sooo much missing in it, the study just asked women only!!! you can't just ask people without empirical data to back it up, i.e. ask people what they earn and actually find prove of it. As for her opening statement lord that was offensive and loaded and poisoning of the well. definitely will do a review of this on my channel. these women do not want to take responsibility! they fail to realise for the past 40 years most men have been raised by single mothers or grand mothers(i'm being anecdotal), so if all these so called toxic men are raised by women, who taught them to hate women... their own mothers

[@manqobamabuza1038]

you spoke my mind ,i just dont understand why is it so one sided, that guy raised serious points but because he stood for men then he had to be dismissed all the time. as long as this continues like this we will never have peace between the genders

[@ndube4589]

Black Oxymoron whats your channel?

[@heykaybee3]

Kinda ironic that Jackie's the most emotional person on that panel.

[@kennethkwai1519]

Jackie had very strong points but rubbish delivery, acknowledging history then what!! As an African man I deeply empathize

[@bladerbsimelane2700]

Jacky ❤️

[@tiabanda9850]

I hate how cut off this conversation is. So freaking rushed!

[@ljsam9386]

What is holding this continent together it's tradition and it's tradition that makes women more appealing for marriage

[@mihlayonke]

This debate was not about masculinity... 👎

[@senzombongwa3004]

I think everyone is missing Jackie's point here and not to mention the host's partiality its appalling!!

[@oagengmsiza5760]

They are missing some of the points his saying..

[@kevinvere]

You failed to understand and or appreciate impacts of trauma, attachment, marginalisation, oppression, single parentage (boys being raised by women to become men), not to discount the biblical narration of hierarchy. All this does not promote disrespect of a woman, but acknowledges and embrace our differences for a better relationship...

[@thusimpin]

What is the role of masculinity in our society?

[@mathewlegrange5880]

Well, the need of men to conquer and build is what has shaped society throughout the ages. Without men and masculinity the world as we know it would not exist. Men are integral to any society, even though the feminists will have you believe that all men are oppressors and all women are victims and are virtuous.

[@mihlayonke]

This was a feminism debate.

[@oagengmsiza5760]

Nothing wrong with Masculinity. Masculinity is an energy,same as femininity-they are in all of us,both men and women(ofcause some more than the others) the problem is toxic Masculinity- That's what we need to focus on.

[@tshilidzimusekwa9726]

If there's toxic masculinity, shouldn't there be toxic feminity? 🤔

[@mathewlegrange5880]

Women: "Men need to be more like women". Also women: "What happened to all the good men? All the manly men? Where are they?"

[@joemwas5442]

The white guy talks a lot of sense

[@joemwas5442]

He is the only one talking the truth

[@user-yj2em2wi2s]

Jacki is such a diva, wanting complete silence when he speaks but he can interrupt the Dr sitting next to him when she speaks. Trash

[@buntun3670]

They. interrupt when you deviate from the script

[@phumelelemayeni2185]

Oh my God these are the types of platforms that we need everywhere in South Africa

[@KeithMakank3]

I'm proud of my country, can we not discuss all things so effectively and respectably?

[@syari5884]

i lost a few brain cells watching this...

[@quintinmiddleton2615]

Did he just say that Wiki is racist? HAHAHA!!!

[@vuyotervin6292]

IM SORRY TO SAY THIS BUT THE HOST RALLY DOES NOT HAVE WHAT WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A HOST, SHE IS NOT NEUTRAL SHE HAS FAVORS AND SHE FAVOURS ONE SIDE SO

[@tshepisomorobi659]

Ha but she tried her best man

[@Futtodifyah]

Men or some men.. when u say men are trash, u putting all men under that umbrella... women that think that way, why not go and build ur own nation of women and leave us men alone.

[@amosisreal3392]

Sounds like America masculinity should not be dominant in women

[@tcrump212IsLmbrJck_t]

And to be fair, the big black girl was allowed to historicize her remarks, and literally proved the point of the dude sitting next to her, and I am very gay. I’m just saying it does help to examine both sides if we look at the history. That’s all he was trying to say, but he was talking too damn slow lol.

[@tshilidzimusekwa9726]

You guys didn't talk about divorce beneficiaries🤔.... It's about one gender doing bad and the other always right. Or... No free pads for young girls who can't afford sanitary pads. I see.

[@magivasgiva612]

until we solve and come into conclusion about our difference, inequalities and racial divisions, and come together to reason about our gender inequalities, and re structure our mindset. 120 years along the line, men will be calling women with these names and trying to fight the structures that women are plotting,

[@yenziwemotha3049]

It seems like when we are talking about racism and the poverty of black people in this country, the past matters. The arguments that are used to defend and explain our people's current conditions are very much valid against the white man but when those same arguments used against the white man to defend black people are used against black women to defend black men all of the sudden it's a problem. I am not saying that the women are wrong but if a white person said that black people must forget apartheid and focus on farm killings right now because apartheid was in the past, that white people would be skinned and considered to be racists

[@restlessnative3818]

The Host seems biased and somewhat (dare i say) Patriarchal in her handling of the guests.

[@GoogleUser-wy2vv]

I didn't see that. She did an excellent job.

[@restlessnative3818]

@@GoogleUser-wy2vv -agree to disagree.

[@GoogleUser-wy2vv]

@@restlessnative3818 How was she biased?

[@restlessnative3818]

@@GoogleUser-wy2vv - have you not read further comments below? I've watched too many things since but I'm SURE my ststement was heartfelt. Is it safe to assume you are merely seeing from a programmed "feminist" perspective instead of being simply anti-white supremacy/oppression for all?

[@restlessnative3818]

@@GoogleUser-wy2vv - Globally, outside of western programmed mentality so called "Black" women are much more practical in regards to the roles of men and women. In the white supremacist controlled western nations (including S.A.) "Black" women are given jobs OVER "Black" men in order to continue the attack on our family structures. Equal pay doesn't end White Supremacy. Justice does. In justice is equality.

[@frybisto1666]

I thank God for the patriarchy

[@oagengmsiza5760]

It has to be a man saying this🙄🙄🙄

[@Chilbuli_Baby]

No i agree with him!!

[@oagengmsiza5760]

Elaborate please..

[@BeskuitenBroffie]

What...?

[@AtangMatieaOnlinePortfolio]

Host killed this show

[@VandrossNtshegi]

Does Doctor Tlaleng have a husband?

[@stevemalete9648]

Good question, and I doubt 🤔

[@ezerbia]

Yes. She does. Happily married.

[@vuyotervin6292]

JOH THE HOST IS WITLESS

[@sibongisenikhumalo8198]

Your definition of what a man is don't define me

[@fortunetshabalala3388]

U Jackie u gelezile neh? Aksi silungu sokudlala lesi 😂😂😂

[@singofhulufhelo]

😅😅😅😅

[@tshenomotlhankana8695]

Jackie is emotional

[@user-yj2em2wi2s]

As she should

[@tshilidzimusekwa9726]

😂😂😂💔💔We gon act like women don't benefit from patriarchy, how men have to pay for dates, not allowed to abandon kids that women can abort etc.

[@MabundaMg]

Interesting comment !

[@clairmontjoseph775]

Greetings getting ower priorities rong

[@nosiphonsibande306]

14:25

[@siphosethujim]

when w tlk abt pay diffrence tht has nothing t d with gender its all about choice..females choos t do easy jobs whiles men g for risky jobs and high.paying jobs.

[@garyAjames]

That garbage term has spread across the globe I see

[@Nakhesha]

This Jackie person 🤦🏾‍♀

[@tullymogashoa6259]

Men should just take a stand and take responsibility.

[@xolamahlati7649]

Yho This Host no no no... camon, Sisi No. you are bias

[@tumimoses9766]

Isn't it ironic that after the White dude spoke about masculinity and feminine dance. They go to a gay person 😅