Gender Wars: is masculinity toxic for boys?

[@hannahmosqueda4124]

I think men talk about their feelings a bit differently than women do. I've been with the same man for eight years (married for three), and it has taken me a long time to understand when he is expressing his feelings, because he doesn't use the same language I do to do it. That doesn't mean he's failing to express his feelings. It just means I've failed to understand him.

[@AronHsiao]

This is the crux of the issue. It's not all down to feminism; changes in the living and work arrangements of modern society play in here. Men left en masse to join a modern, Taylorist workforce disconnected entirely from family or clan life. New generations of boys and girls grew up without close relationships with or even regular observation of healthy men. Feminism was the result and compounded the problem. At the end of the day, children-especially girls-who have a healthy relationship with a healthy father understand men, understand the different gestural and emotional language that men use that is at least predominantly rooted in biology, and are able to (1) intuitively read the difference between strength and threat (2) make sense of and be empathetic toward mens' feelings and emotional states without having to try to shoehorn them into feminine behavioral patterns [which are the only patterns at this point that most know, expect, or will accept, having grown up primarily with mothers], (3) be supportive spouses, sisters, and mothers to boys and men, (4) recognize the masculine ways in which healthy men are actually being supportive of them as well, and (5) relate in healthy, mutually productive ways to nonfamily men without pathologizing them or resenting them for not being women. The loss of fathers has created a self-sustaining and intensifying feedback loop of the misunderstanding of men and masculinity across society, as well as the gradual disappearance of normative socialization practices for growing boys, which is catastrophic, as masculinity without socialization is essentially wild (not predatory, but wild; civilization is that which sublimated and directed human masculinity). Both boys and girls are affected. Boys increasingly fail to develop a healthy, well-ordered control of their masculinity, having had no training from anyone that could provide it, and girls increasingly see [and notably, as a result of these trends, have direct experience with, often regrettably negatively] only a disordered masculinity that they are ironically at the same time less prepared than ever to spot from a distance, diagnose, or interpret. It's difficult to see how we escape this trap without societal collapse. But if we are to do so, it starts with finding the few resources that we have left to train boys how to be good men, and finding some way to give girls experiences in relating to good men during their formative years, so that good men make sense to them (and bad men are easy to identify) once they're adults. In other words, good on you for sticking with your guy long enough to come to see the good man in him-few these days would do the same. If we are to win this game, what you have accomplished is our best bet and strategy. Sadly, I don't think most women today have self-concepts, peers, or mothers that will grant them eight years to come to understand a good man as such. In my own experience, the impulse to declare the discovery of yet another toxic male (without any actual evidence of truly toxic behavior) kicks in after the first emotional miscommunication or two, usually within just a few months, and it's all downhill from there. :-(

[@joeldwest]

Sorry but it’s bs to keep on expending effort to understand him when he doesn’t expend the same energy and focus to understand you. If the effort is one.sided, you‘re just fluffing his ego....not exactly helping toward maturity.

[@michaelbelt8768]

victoria ann zabaras; great advice - tell another woman that her efforts to the man she obviously loves is worthless. YOU and other feminazi's are why men withold their thoughts and inner feelings. You bitches feel a false sense of empowerment because you don't understand the relativity of time. Women feel enttled and not required to pay the same price that men do. We men are going to leave your pampered, heifer asses to yourselves. This is generally happening now and personally, I have made the same choice. Just because a ill-informed majority is in rule, does not make that group right. Women can't grasp this. We men are leaving and an idealogical enemy will take advantage

[@resume1009]

Hannah Mosqueda Exactly Hannah. Just recognizing that will help him a lot l, too!

[@angelicaperez3210]

I appreciate you first taking ownership of your role and how you can only control thy self. NOT easy task. Alot of work, you are becoming a better person for acknowledging, what needs attention in your mind and heart, enable to learn to understand someone.

[@lonokonane1796]

I disagree with the person that claimed that traditional masculinity punishes men and boys that don't fit. On the contrary, it is mainly women that punish men and boys that don't fit into what they see as "ideal masculinity".

[@PeterOzanne]

How? Maybe they are following natural selection, looking for a more alpha-type! But I've found there are enough women who are, shall we say, a bit "kinder". Also, there are plenty of cases of guys in schools etc. bullying or "hazing" those they consider weaker.

[@beckyfuge]

There are so many ways to be a competent male when it comes to human sexual selection, the "alpha" narrative is so silly and doesn't describe anything but the popular kids in a high school movie.

[@PeterOzanne]

Exactly!

[@Oshaoxin]

@@beckyfuge More often portaits the 'alpha' as a bully. It's not the same thing. An alpha is a natural leader, a strong and succesful person. A bully pretends to be confident, pride shaped to mask their own insecurities. The difference is also that bullies need their accomplices to be on top, an alpha does not. People follow an alpha because he is an awesome person.

[@hannahmosqueda4124]

Traditional masculinity punishes any man who doesn't fit within the prescribed masculine type of the time. Hence why men end up dressing for other men rather than women. They dress for their the approval and acceptance of their mentors, peers, and the men of their society. By the time men are grown and attempting to express themselves to a partner of any gender they have already internalized so many of these standards that their emotional expression has been narrowed. Women do the same thing to women just in different ways.

[@photo161]

Camille Paglia is the greatest and most articulate of truth seekers in the area of Gender Studies. Long may she reign!!!

[@kathyflorcruz552]

You cannot possibly believe that. What you do feel is like a deer caught in the headlights of the truth.

[@photo161]

...how special for you to be able to know other peoples beliefs and thoughts better than they know them themselves. Another word for that kind of "ability" is insanity. PS- You might note that I've gotten 35 likes in this short period of time. Apparently there are a lot of nasty headlights out there. Careful...

[@photo161]

poor baby...

[@Justmynewaccount]

I always call her "het machinegeweer" ("the machine gun") because she goes on a non-stop barrage of blasting facts and truths all over the place and is very difficult to keep up with. But she is a joy to listen to.

[@AB-bt9eb]

She's the greatest intellectual right now in general.

[@charlielune5348]

Masculinity came from fatherhood......and women cant do it....." ....great panel.

[@chavruta2000]

"as a trans-man i fear i will have to take on something that I"m not." 32:50 let's think about that for a minute...

[@chillaxation]

Thank you! I can't believe I had to scroll down a lot for this. The emperor has NO CLOTHES!

[@natibynature6284]

I just wrote a comment about it...I think that she is a Transtrender!

[@SnarkJacobs]

there is a reason people like that are "punished" and it's called instinct and breeding for a successful future. this guy should be an aberration and not promoted as what we need more of

[@inkognito9466]

"His" style expression seemed to be engineered to be unattractive to BOTH genders

[@joeldwest]

Something I‘m not so thrilled about is guys going to be gals usually means less responsibility...looking for a guy to help out or be equal with the bills....after years of family they asked for then are irresponsible for....whereas you see the opposite with women going to men....yaaaa....seems like those that start off male, just can’t make it as a man.... then they are another generation dumping their kids.... using sexuality as an excuse.. and so many male-born he-shes trolling for the opportunity to pick up some pizzed-off hetero man, well if ur going to stick it in a hole in the wall, I guess you don’t care anyway...

[@jothecocopop]

The "teach boys not to rape" argument is so asinine, because it implies that rapists don't know that what they're doing is wrong, when they do - they just *don't care.*

[@beauzer36]

It's asinine because even the lowest of low men (prisoners) do not take kindly to rapists and crimes against women. There is no such thing as rape culture. Our culture treats rape almost like murder.

[@monicaventura9492]

What you teach boys is to not have a sense of entitlement.

[@demonhunter4604]

How do teach men to be manly but not overtly violent? Teach them codes of honor

[@CaribbeanAtheist1978]

Andy Holcroft - you're still another male jerk who doesn't like the reality, and truth about yourself. That's why you're stalking my comments, you miserable, and toxic male jerk.

[@veda1166]

I’m a Mum of two daughters and I’m sick to the back teeth of feminists. I stand with my husband my brothers, uncles my nephews and my father all of whom I can’t imagine living without. Feminists on the other hand ......

[@christinacorrigan-u1l]

Of course you do, your daughter is a girl

[@Absolynth]

As a white male boy in the 90s, my understanding of the world was "men are idiots, women are victims." And I remember thinking how unfair that is. I was the silenced voice in my time, not the girls. They had all the voices in the world saying we need more voices for girls. Didn't stop me from living a happy childhood, but that was my reality. Was that supposed to help my confidence in life? No. Much like modern feminist media, the only way they can lift up the girls is by bashing down the boys.

[@summermathis574]

"Young men were always supposed to aspire to be strong protectors and providers." Yes, and as soon as the storm hits or the power goes out, women all expect that of men now -- and always will. Also, last I saw, 100 percent of women's personals demanded taller men. Conclusion: Quit shaming masculinity when it's convenient and demanding it when you don't get your conveniences. Also: Paglia is fantastic.

[@johnkendal5562]

Actually it is more or less universal in religions (i.e those based upon truth rather than mere bigoted dogma) to teach that human beings will resolve all of their issues in life and all of their dreams of union with their god when they enter within and dispose of their gender associations and learn to readily accept both their masculine and feminine aspects. As a rather 'feminine' man I can see the value in this. Since I read of this when studying Gnosticism and Hinduism I finally came to accept my soft feminine qualities and stopped feeling so inadequate.

[@harrymills2770]

As long as women hold the uterus monopoly, survival of the species is helped by men making sacrifices, like that, on behalf of women. I think, too, that tough women break in, here and there, and that's fine. Most men don't want to make a career of wielding a shovel, either.

[@gudgud4608]

Namaste @John Kendal

[@ChildrensRightsFirst947]

It's really helping me to read all the sexist remarks from men and go to websites like Return of Kings to help me get inside the heads of abusive, sexist men. It will help me spot red flags faster and know who to stay the hell away from when dating plus warn my daughter. So I guess I can thank you all for that. I've started becoming more feminist lately because I used to think men were generally equality minded and somewhat portrayed unfairly as sexist but the internet reveals that most the hate is actually coming from men, not women.

[@mauiciogonzalez5623]

you wont have any children because you are an angry ugly hag. no one wants you Science not religion. You are obviously religious.... the religion of MISANDRY

[@MrBl4ckY]

"They can sue my dead ass" Oh boy i like this guy.

[@lawrencethompson8996]

It is worth remembering that there is also a huge class element to this. In many ways the feminist attack on masculinity is simply middle class women attacking working class male culture (it certainly feels like this in England). There are certainly critiques to be made of every segment of society but it is becoming increasingly clear how destructive ivory tower academics have been - especially with regard to the native European male.

[@oscarparedes4033]

@@jamiehuntington22 those are great times.

[@crazymike1706]

Good point

[@thomsonfly645k]

I had noticed that as well (again in the UK). Apparently this has been a recurring theme going back as far as the middle ages where stuffy upper and middle class women would take the role of the feminist ideologues of today.

[@slampersand3145]

This definitely exists in the US as well.

[@adamcampbellart]

Feminism is the female equivalent of the Nazi. Instead of labor camps, they have abortion clinics.

[@organicstorm]

at about 55min when he talks about the father-daughter relationship.. yepp, so right. I have a great relationship with both my parents, but in very different ways, my dad and my mom balance each other, and they are a team. where my mom tends towards caution, my dad likes to push forwards and lets us feel secure even when taking risks. but I have yet to meet a man half as awesome as my dad nor a woman as great and strong as my mom, so .. well .. they aren't perfect as individuals, but together they're magic. I wish more people realize how awesome a partnership based on mutual respect for each other's strength and acknowledging one's weaknesses can be. bashing each other only holds us all back.

[@robotraider]

Amen

[@chipper442]

Well said

[@Gilgaladt]

well said

[@jspprn7767]

Wonderful.

[@lindsaybrewer3689]

How wonderful to read

[@MightyGorb]

I actually suffered from depression due to the fact that I felt pressured to hide some of my more masculine side due. Over the past couple years I embraced some of those aspects of my personality and have since found myself more balanced. We're not all aggressive louts but we are masculine by nature most of the time and should be ourselves. To put in perspective, I'm a 6'4" rugby player sized dude who was rejected for being both too masculine from one group and not masculine enough from another. It's these discussions that are alienating people who are already misunderstood. We're all different but masculinity is real.

[@theafricanredpill]

Exactly, men should embrace their natural state of being masculine, and women should embrace their natural state of being feminine. After all we are better off together than apart. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d57Jo4isgqiZea8

[@tiffaniterris2886]

Stop associating aggression to a lout, or neanderthal, or some other negative thing. We are hard wired with it for a reason, because it's a tool. A good thing.

Sweden is overrun. There are no men left in Sweden.

[@jasonsmith-by3ji]

Sure there are. They just speak arabic.

[@oleberrutra9759]

No the most intelligent male in Sweden are leaving to Asia. Some are going to China/Japan to work. And right now even the shaming tactics in Sweden TVs about the "losers" who leave their country dont work anymore. Right now in the major cities in Sweden the women dont leave the house at night anymore. Thanks feminism that you are responsible for the fall of Sweden.

[@B.N.HMedia]

WalkOn Bye yeah sweden is pretty damn sweet😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Peter_1986]

How about actually visiting Sweden before you form an opinion? And I am talking about more places than just the worst ghettos in the outskirts of Stockholm and Malmö.

[@derekarsenault1046]

That Irish guy is kicking ass and taking names !

[@finnibertlunchiken7792]

Derek arsenault Fearless as he should be.

[@meatman446]

His name is John Waters.

[@HoNoRey]

“Do you understand, Sir ? If you call yourself “Sir” ".

[@jkovert]

"Toxic masculinity" used to be called "masculinity."

[@jacobodom8401]

That’s the goal of calling it toxic, to alienate people from masculine concepts and label them all as bad

[@jkovert]

@@jacobodom8401 Yep. But let everyone fem out, and we chosen few shall RULE.

[@whade62000]

@@jacobodom8401 I don't even know what the "toxic" buzzword means, it's clearly to imply "ew ew ew drop it, don't touch it or it'll spread" but is there a specific MEANING to the word? It just seems like an empty word that you attach to stuff that you want to defame freely.

[@agardenapart9515]

You don't know the definition of toxic masculinity. Look that up and get back to us...

[@jkovert]

@@agardenapart9515 No, that's ok, I have a diesel tank that needs to be dug up and disposed of.

[@candysmith8724]

I am raising two sons...as a parent I am truly concerned about all of this pertaining to boys/men. I LOVE what Camille said about public schools and boys....I find this true in our case too. Girls are praised and boys are shunned for not behaving the same. Girls that are assertive are praised the opposite for boys. I actually seen parents that have both sexes encouraging this same concept. They want their daughters outspoken and sassy and their sons under tight control. My father used to talk to me about society changes going on, I see his point clearly now. I wish my father was still alive. I agree we need more male teachers! We need healthy boys to be great husbands and fathers for future families.

[@kamilkowalczyk4106]

Thank You for comment Candy

[@edwardchapel8036]

I wanna buy that Irish guy drink,well said mate 🍷 🍷

[@cmmndrblu]

No, masculinity is not toxic. I like being a guy. I´m a gay guy, I have straight brothers, a straight father, straight cousins, straight brothers. We´re all guys. We don´t hate women, we don´t hate ourselves. I totally agree that the way education is in most schools fails boys. I´m a teacher, I teach boys and girls, I make an effort to treat them equally, but I do recognise differences, most of which I would attribute to personality before gender, but they´re there. Everyone wants to be creative but boys more often than not want to find the limits, learn a system and subvert the system. If there are no differences between men and women, then why are testosterone and oestrogen not the same chemical? Why do they have different effects on the brain. If there are no differences between men and women, then what is the trans movement about? I hate teaching for tests. It´s bullshit. Teaching should be about development of skills, educated risk taking, setting a goal, finding the information you need and building an outcome. Gender denigration is toxic. And that´s it.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

TBH, as a bi man, I find the idea that sexual orientation is somehow the basis for one being or not being masculine to be utter rubbish. Masculinity and femininity are on different axis from sexual orientation. I happen to be a very masculine man, it just happens that I'm attracted to other men at times.

[@ThatGaymer]

But perhaps it's the case that they are both influenced by the same thing? So while sexual orientation doesn't isn't a cause of your personality and vice versa, personality and orientation are both influenced by, say, hormone exposure in the womb.

[@stephskipcain4599]

cmmndrblu agreed. I'm also a teacher and it gets more difficult every year because we have to watch out for their sensitive emotional state and teach to the test. It's so disheartening!

[@CaribbeanAtheist1978]

Give me a break. I already know *"men"* are going to attack, and bully me. Us women are *still* treated like crap in the 21st century because of this *"women are less than"* brainwashing propaganda. You males in grown bodies continue to deflect, delude, lie, and manipulate yourselves, and us women. Those are negative attributes that so many of you have, and do, even if you don't realize it. Case in point, your comments here.

[@mikespilligan1490]

@@CaribbeanAtheist1978 I see green hair, a bulging gut and cats lots of cats, in your very near future.

[@robertacton2033]

Does anyone on the panel think masculinity is toxic ? -50 years of toxic feminism says it is.

[@PeterOzanne]

Why does something have to be ALL one thing? Just to make it easier to label? Masculinity is not toxic (stupid generalisation any way), but some of what PASSES for

[@PeterOzanne]

masculinity can be: e.g. gang culture, like Ultra's soccer violence. Feminism is not toxic as a whole, but some manifestations of it certainly are. As soon as we attack the WHOLE of what we imagine is a homogenous group, we immediately do parts of that group a serious injustice, and just create more divisions in society.

[@linguisticallyoversight8685]

Actually I think what you really should criticizes the 20% of vocal feminazis that make up 80% of the b******* the Pareto Principle in any domain of activity 20% are responsible for the 80% so the problem isn't the overall movement it never will be on either side it's the 20% of vocal dumbasses that vitriolically spew they're backwards ideology

[@mark01ization]

And that's why Feminists are retarded

[@vgloveforlife]

Aggressive masculinity is toxic. Assertive masculinity is not.

[@kyalovic5673]

A room full of young women hell bent on not understanding or even considering another point of view...

[@Aninram1985]

It's not surprise there's so much gender confusion, when you're raised to dislike the opposite sex, or your own.

[@agardenapart9515]

I was taught not to like dudes by nearly every dude I've ever encountered because of their own actions against me. How dare you deny woman's LIVED REALITY!!

[@No-bs4um]

​@@agardenapart9515 Damn you're insane.

[@cmmndrblu]

lady at 34:12 is totally right. Safe spaces are enforced infantilisation.

[@Rankbaajin]

"as a trans man i worry that i will have to become something that I am not" ....nailed it. and right there is the incoherence of their argument

[@uchihadabba699]

I picked up on that too. A walking contradiction.

[@jasmineluxemburg6200]

My mother was a bully and my father was caring and patient. My father had self respect and dignity. He was a good role model to his children both male and female. My dad was working class and so was my mother. But ideologically they were poles apart ! My mother was bigoted and extolled hard work. She introduced it to me from infancy ! My father respected skill. He did a apprenticeship, he taught me, a girl to use tools skilfully because I showed interest. I became a design technology teacher eventually, after being a trade trainer ! I look very feminine but I was taught to handle a three tear wooden ladder , by my father ! To mix paint from pigments and linseed oil. To know that art with paint was a spectrum historically not the possession of an elite ! I never met any working class men that excluded women from knowing about trade skills. This is going back fifty plus years ! I do not know where these myths of utterly distinct roles comes from ! My mother did decorating work for a living in the 30 ‘s ! Women riveters and welders worked on aircraft ! All these middle class fantasists obsessed with excluding ! Projecting anxiety onto each other, over what ! Over subjective feeling states they attribute to others in an exaggerated way ! Get a life ! P

[@Absolynth]

This is the kind of dialogue that gives me hope.

[@janemadison3542]

Once straight men started working at Forever 21, I knew we were in trouble.

[@Blackwolfxu]

well thanks a lot bitches.

[@goawayleavemealone2880]

Please tell me you're joking - I'm gay and you couldn't pay me to work in Forever 21, that's only partly because Forever 21 hasn't come to the UK.

[@Nutt_lemmings]

Omg

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

Jane Madison 😂😂😂

[@mensrea1251]

lol

[@artyteatwaffle7536]

THE EFFEMINATE WORLD OF EDUCATION IS THE PROBLEM. LET MEN BE MEN. COLLEGE IS TOXIC.

[@jimmorris8927]

Two nights ago I went to my teen daughter's school presentation night. She was one of the first to accept her award so then i had to sit through 2 hours of repetitive self-congratulation by the school. And well worthy of it of course. It is an excellent school with obviously devoted staff but I noticed for Year 7 there was only one boy amongst the top ten percent of students. Year 8 a few more but then I began counting. Why such a low turn-out for the boys? By the end of the night I'd discovered that the number of boys winning awards varied between 5 and 45%. Almost the entire school band was made up of girls and all of the duxes, bar one, were girls. Good on the girls, and that feeling was tangible by the mood of the crowd but I kept wondering where are the boys, what will be the long-term affect of what looks to me like systemic bias towards girls? I'm not suggesting that the teachers are consciously favouring girls over boys but it seems as though the end result of teachers being trained in feminist universities and decades of female-friendly policies the education system has become so girl-friendly that it is way past time to be asking why no-one evens admits to noticing or can't see that it is a bad thing. Every student deserves to be given the best treatment. The facts displayed on the stage for all to see indicate strongly that boys are being treated as second best. Of course there are the bland arguments about effort and attitude but possibly the attitude is partly due to the contempt boys are often expected to absorb; even when it is "only a joke". When boys were consistently out-performing girls something had to be done about it. So now? When the numbers have reversed? Does the school examine the numbers, admit there is a problem, and do what is required to get back to an even balance where all students receive 100% teaching regardless of their gender.

[@yor1001]

Fuck feminism and fuck single motherhood.

[@byrdmaniacsg2776]

Society does next to nothing to encourage boys. Our society is sexist, but not in the way that feminazis want you to think.

[@Impossibly_gorgeous]

It's crazy that you'd reason like that when it's still very much a man's world. The pay gap between men and women working in the exact same profession and position is still huge. I say it from experience. I once worked at a place where my subordinates earned more than me simply cause they were men. The fact that you think that there's something wrong with girls guarding their interests the same way men have for centuries, while being a girl mom, is repugnant.You don't deserve your daughter.

[@timtransport]

Masculinity to me never meant being aggressive, it is the capacity to be aggressive. Being stoic and silently appreciated. Men were told to be softer, and then were called sooks for being soft. Men used to be able to come home, suffering silently, and look around and find joy in his family. Now they're just belittled, devalued and compared to other men. The domestic life now is 80% owned by women, no matter how hard a man works or trys. Do you wonder why they value video games above family? Men and boys lose trying to have a family

[@NealBromfield]

If you go to a warzone, you should wear a bullet proof vest

[@Ekaekto]

Why would you want to compare civilian life with a warzone though? I don't quite get it...

[@basedcentrist3056]

Martin Daubneys opening statement made me cry. Didn't expect such a genuine and powerful call for unity

[@mulengroak6623]

"Teach rapists not to rape" They're criminals they DON'T CARE. She just thought beterr if saying 'men' which us what she meant.

[@seipokgai]

Without masculinity, who else is going to open the damn jar? My wife? LOL, the only thing she's good at opening is my wallet. *** jokes lol, i don't have any money ;)

[@jspprn7767]

😂😂😂

[@George75869]

this is the best thing i've read today hahaha 😂

[@CaribbeanAtheist1978]

Andy Holcroft - thank for proving that all "men" are tge same. *You're another, assuming, incoherent, oblivious, and obtuse little boy in a grown body.* You boys hate to be dalled out on your bullshit, so, you will turn around, assume, deflect, lie, and *man-ipulate* us women, and the situation. You aren't any different, nor better than my dead beat *"father"* - and you *"men" "think"* that that is okay. But, I'm the one with the *"anger"* - and *"daddy issues"?*

[@ladyofneener474]

Tanya Lake how old is your dead beat dad? He may be a victim of the "dumbing down" of this era in both men and women. Men need to have "manhood" reintroduced into their lives so their won't be dead beat dads. Men have been beaten down long enough. Soon there will be no more children because there will be no more "men"! Believe me, it is my generation that initiated cultural castration of men. It was a huge cultural experiment that has backfired! Women no longer want to be mothers and men no longer want to be men. What a complete mess for society. Please let's open our minds and study these issues. Please start working together for solutions before it's too late.

[@CaribbeanAtheist1978]

@@ladyofneener474 - history proves by also showing that it is *"men"* who have beaten down other *"men"* - not women. You are still brainwashed, and don't even realize it. That is why you are so quick to defend these *"men".* Why is it that *"men"* won't allow a woman to be president? It is because they are paranoid, and also want to stay in control over women. What does my dead beat *"father"* have anything to do with the dumbing down of this era? You're still not making any sense, and contradicted yourself. Edit: You older generation still wonder why the younger generation are messed up. Look in the mirror. You still believe that your manhood/womanhood is defined by what's between your legs because, AGAIN, you have been brainwashed aka told by elite *"men"* that that's how it is, and should be.

[@ThoughtsFew]

One thing I like about being 23 is its never been easier to establish who in my age group just isn't worth the time especially as it relates to dating.

[@festernassociates]

We dont want mens shelters.. we want repect in our own homes.

[@vogelfaenger6830]

I want more mens shelters. we have 10000 spots for women and children but only around 30 spots for men and children in Germany And if I want to flee with my children from a psychopathic mother without being jailed for kidnapping, mens shelters (I don't like the name) are necessary We don't need 10000 but 1000 spots would be enough This has nothing to do with respect or no respect

[@sobertowelie3267]

@@vogelfaenger6830 It has to do with the lack of respect. Men are viewed as disposable, invaluable and evil in today's society and therefore looked down upon because why would you treat someone with respect who has no value to society? Shelters are necessary, though, I agree.

[@alexlyee]

the fact that someone yelled at him as he said he can't tell his story is so telling

[@thepcenthusiastchannel2300]

To that lady who says that no Men's Rights Activist has opened a shelter. 1. There's no public funding for them 2. Regardless of that one was opened by Men's rights groups in Ottawa in September of 2017: ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/vanier-mens-centre-the-third-of-its-kind-in-canada-officially-opens

[@bogdan78pop]

We blame the victim all the time...but not when rape is involved...Situational awareness ......A woman go to a Safari and decided to pat a wild lion on the head.."what a lovely cat"..and the lion kills her .....WE don't blame the lion..!!!!

[@pru666]

This is UTTER moronic nonsense. Those women just SHOULDNT have been walking in her own town at night in a dress! How dare she assume she is free to walk around like that basically begging to be raped? God the people who upvoted that grim comment should be ashamed of themselves.

[@SeraphimDragon]

@@pru666 Situational awareness is basic survival instincts and common sense. If you don't have the common sense to understand that the world can be dangerous, and that some places are more dangerous than others due to obvious statistics, AND fail to prepare or protect yourself as needed, then it IS your own damn fault for tempting Darwinism to take place. I mean in your OWN example, you specifically said "at night in a dress". If you compared the number of times a woman walking in her own town in a dress got raped at night versus in the daylight, which one do you think would show higher numbers? The answer is obvious, for obvious reasons. Dark areas, areas with little vision, or even unpopulated areas; every single one of these types of places invites temptation for something bad to happen if you're not paying attention and think for whatever reason nothing bad will EVER happen to you under any circumstance. TL;DR: This has literally nothing to do with imposing on a person's right to make a decision for themselves and their liberties. It has EVERYTHING to do with holding an individual responsible for their self-made choices. A person who willfully puts themselves in potentially risky situations is JUST as at fault as a person who knowingly commits to doing an evil deed that they know as wrong. Both know there are risks to their actions. Both take said risks and suffer the respective consequences accordingly.

[@sillidill5227]

@@SeraphimDragon well said!

[@mr-boo]

Edit: I suddenly remembered the part where OP stated: "WE don't blame the lion". Let my comment below not be interpreted as "Don't judge the rapist of rape"... obviously a person who is guilty of rape should be sentenced as such! My comment below is meant to defend the position that we carry responsibility for our own safety. ​@@pru666 , I understand your sentiment that anyone _should_ be free to do with their body what they want and be free from aggression despite. On the surface, that's a reasonable expectation. Given that currently nobody has complete freedom in this regard (although we are already granted so much more liberty than past generations), the question is how to get to that point. More precisely, what are the changes that need to be made, what are their costs and benefits. If we could easily identify all potential rapists and prevent their crimes from happening, this wouldn't have been so difficult. Lacking that option, demonising masculinity in general has been the woke feminist response, and that response echoes throughout western civilisation and culture so much that young people find it hard to think otherwise. That has _major_ costs: hard to perceive consequences because their effects are distributed and span long times. However, we observe negative effects for example in suicide, education, imprisonment, marriage/divorce statistics. We mostly hear in media about the cherry-picked examples by woke feminist propaganda, reposted on social media until they get some form of social acceptance without scientific backing. This distortion of reality demands one of two things: 1) Rectification, so that the situation can become balanced, or 2) Increasingly more oppression, to uphold itself and counter an increasingly larger potential backlash. In the extreme. (2), in extremis, requires the killing of all men or perhaps hormone-controlling their brains from young age. A wet dream for a few messed up feminazis. I'm going out on a limb and assume you'd prefer (1). This simply requires accepting the following: Without 100% controlling all factors, you will never get a 100% safe society. And without a 100% safe society,, it is only rational to be careful. In the particular case of rape, that might involve understanding how those select few perpetrators function and make the minimal adjustments to your own behaviour accordingly. It's been a bit of a lengthy post, but the more concise and equally reasonable original post was considered 'UTTER moronic nonsense', which doesn't do it justice. With regards to your final comment on it: Note that it is exemplary of the small forms of oppression that woke feminism engages in. Please provide arguments for your position next time instead of contributing to the shaming of men. Thank you.

[@mr-boo]

@@smoothinvestigator I don't think _anybody_ seriously shifts the blame to the victim. The perpetrator is responsible for the rape, period. The victim can nonetheless be held responsible for taking care of their own safety.

[@cperez1000]

33:00 The trans man says: "sometimes I am overly emotional".. That's because you are a woman.

[@CaribbeanAtheist1978]

You brainwashed sheep have the fucking nerve when you dumb, and slow asses still don't realize that you've been brainwashed to be dumbed down. Your comments proves that, *"smart"* ones. It is like being in that movie, *"Idiocracy".*

[@Oshaoxin]

@@CaribbeanAtheist1978 Funny, we think the same thing about you sheep ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@CaribbeanAtheist1978]

@@Oshaoxin - get the heck out of here, you twisted mess.

[@Oshaoxin]

@@CaribbeanAtheist1978 Look who's talking, with such kindness and tolerance, there is no doubt you must be of wholesome and highly intelligent stock ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@thecentreformalepsychology8489]

Absolute classic Battle of Ideas. There are clear voices on both sides of the argument, but the voices against the idea of toxic masculinity are so much more convincing and their ideas so much more fresh. Freedom of expression at it's best.

[@wr2907]

"Teach the rapist not to rape" REALLY? What world do you live in? You think telling a rapist not to rape or make them take classes will stop someone who wants to hurt someone? Rape isn't about sex its about power. Get out of here. It's our responsibility (the sane people to protect ourselves).

[@cherianjoseph2497]

i disagree, i think sometimes its's just about sex but whats causes it is not toxic masculinity its mostly because of psychopathy, alchohol, poor socialization,trauma not a western culture that tolerates rape.

[@fumeck1674]

What's damaging is having a mother that treats her son like a threat. The opposite sex parent shapes the child more than people want to believe. Mom: Treat girls equally. What's WRONG with you, don't tease girls. Treat women equally, always pay for them. Stay away from other boys, be in touch with your feelings, women like that.' Father: MIA.

[@Ignasimp]

I work in a highschool and one of my collegues who was a woman told me she tells her boy sons that they are privileged for being boys. One of them has been at the verge of losing his life and has been at a hospital for months and months because on an illness yet he has to face the fact the her mother is telling him he is privileged for being a boy. I just can't take it. He has the privilege of having Healthcare that has saved him from dieing, but that has nothing to do with it. Lol

[@carlosidiaquez9524]

@@Ignasimp send to your friend "The manipulated man" by esther vilar

[@woke2woke153]

Great panel, great discussion. I'm sixty four years old. I've lived through almost all of this. It would be an exaggeration to say that Camille Paglia saved my life, but not much of a one. I love her. She's like the big sister I never had. She's right about the problem of feminism ignoring biology, which it most certainly does. The very feminist idea that gender is nothing but a social construct, necessarily ignores biology, and has crept into homosexualism and transgenderism, though in strange, sometimes self-contradictory, ways. It isn't and was never true that anything a man can do, a woman can do equally well. The most important thing that men can do that women can't, is everything that women can't do when they're either laid low by the menstrual cycle, or naturally confined to having or breast-feeding babies. Many feminists have understood this and in response called for the overcoming of women's biological liabilities through the use of medical technology and other forms of artficiality - Shulamith Firestone is a prime example of this, and she was there from the beginning. For those of us who value and respect our biology and take it as our primary point of reference for how to authentically be ourselves in this world, this brand of feminist artificiality, has been a mortal enemy that has done untold damage. For natural people, biology not only matters but is absolutely central to gender, not, as Camille Paglia points out, because biology directly determines gender, but because it is the irreducible basis of gender. Let me oversimplify in order to explain how this basis informs the two fundamental gender identities: women's bodies carry child-bearing wombs, and child-feeding mammary glands; these are vital to human societies' futures; therefore, societies, beginning with women themselves, seek to protect, and feel a duty to protect, women's wombs and mammary glands, in other words, women's bodies; this places men in the front line when it comes to protecting not only mature fertile women, but also future women in the form of girls, and women's' future protectors - boys. For this reason, young people tend naturally to construct their gender identities according to the expectations that this fundamental reality elicits in them. So fundamental is this reality that young people tend to do this appropriately no matter what, but it happens more readily when they don't have to rebel against their societies' ideologies in order to do it. Yes, all of this allows individual variance, but it is the bottom line which individual sexual orientation, in its fullness, naturally discovers. This naturally authoritative norm is what feminism has spent the last nearly sixty years trying to deny, but is a truth which will not go away - one of the reasons we're in such a hell of a state now in so many ways. I thank all on the panel here for having had the courage to genuinely go against the current monocultural grain. May they keep on doing so until this unnatural abomination has been finally thrown into the trashcan where it belongs. Incidentally, like Camille's and the Irishman's and the miner's son's experiences, wife-beating was absolutely taboo and hardly ever even heard of in my Northern English working class community. And any husband who did mistreat his wife would very soon bitterly regret it when her father, brothers or friends caught up with him. So much for the moral efficacy of liberal non-violence!

[@michaelz9892]

Actually we need more masculine men not less. Masculine does not equal "negative" anymore that femininity does. It's BIOLOGY more than culture. Thank God for Camille Paglia.

[@chloe7seven22]

Only sense here was Mr. Irishman. Good on you, sir! Please don't wait to get sick before you write that book. Id like to order it now already.

[@goawayleavemealone2880]

He's probably already written it and is just biding his time, till he can publish it.

[@monicaventura9492]

When you hear a woman say that a tiny minority of men have been abusive towards women, you know she’s completely bonkers and lives in a parallel universe.

[@barbarajohnson1442]

excellent panel, really outspoken audience, nothing held back it seems! vital argument

[@johnweil6685]

Barbara Johnson no, pointless argument. Why don’t we discuss whether or not femininity is toxic? After all, feminists attempt to divorce themselves from what has been considered feminine ideals since the beginning of time in order to resemble the toxic males they hate so much.

[@sebastiankristiansen8852]

I love the Irish guy, such fire as we rarely see anymore

[@Roan.bot.]

“SIR if you call yourself sir” 😂

[@debbielondon1809]

Sad to think that 5 years on we have not come any further.

[@tommack9395]

I'm 56 years old so I avoided much of this. My parents were working class and sent my three elder sisters, myself and my younger brother off to college. I'd have to say absences of male role models in the home today is a terrible issue, and males have little to no stake in even creating a family - due they're viewed as disposable and not relevant as a parent. I find it funny the politician claims he came from a humble background, and when speaking of child care stated he had to learn napper changing on the fly? I'm the son of a son of a coal miner myself... in fact my father work in mines for a short time. My parents were born in 1921 and 1927 and were children during the great depression... Pop was a T-sergeant in the first wave on Omaha beach. The thing is my father taught all of us "responsibility". You take care of yourself and you take care of your family and yourself (because very little help comes from those outside) - protect and provide - that is what masculinity is about. Individuality is the key of any western society your rights, thoughts and beliefs are your own... do not expect others to stand up for them. That is freedom, liberty and the premise of a pursuit of happiness - you'll never reach that by any institution including a government.

[@ErikaWelindt-cs6uz]

Bravo

[@utubemewatch]

I notice the oldest members of the panel grasp masculinity and its vital importance. The younger members conceptualize it thru a filter of feminist Allie, like gushy-beta’s saying masculinity is shaking hands after a match on the pitch, masculinity is being a smaller guy but not feeling threatened. This is the weak cause of critical theory. The first guy got it right, masculinity is fatherhood, its akin to peace through strength, it’s the capacity for lethality but the choice to create, protect, and bestow legacy to the family and community. Watching in 2024 it’s no wonder Britain is failing so brilliantly - they’ve become authoritarian and tyrannical because the young men are crippled by an ideology of pathology they’re trying to fight, but they’re still animated by it. Now Britain thwarts peace in the east and provokes wars they cannot hope to hold their own in, choosing instead to live vicariously through the power of their younger, stronger cousin across the Atlantic, who they mock and besmirch behind the back. And they do this because it’s their only remaining memory of greatness, and they think maybe starting another world war will save us from self-made mediocrity. They’ve destroyed their manufacturing capacity. All they have is an over-stuffed over financialized economy reliant on the powerful western currency, which they subvert and destroy global confidence in, due to their fever dream of war. And thus war mongering is let masculine. It’s toxic femininity - starting shit in the sandbox between 2 bigger and stronger peers, through subversion, gossip, innuendo, character assignation, and covert actions, all in the hopes gleaning some advantage from the carnage. And they did just that in the 20th Century too when they still had a lot of might and strength, definitely batting above their weight. As an Anglophile it’s very sad to watch indeed. But the elites are too entrenched, Nd derive their power and wealth not from dynamism and growth, but subjugation of the average, decent middle and working class Brit. The only hope for the West seems to remain with the U.S. in Donald Trump and the successor chosen to take-up his legacy at the lame duck of 2028. The older man in the panel was prescient with his praises of Trump. He understood it.

[@Justmynewaccount]

13:55 Funny thing is that, in working class areas (at least here) "men" who beat up their wives used to be beaten to tiny bits by their own neighbours and the actual men in the street. Homes were small and walls were thin -- so it would have been very difficult to hide.

[@rsmith4339]

I wish the British education system wasn't so convoluted , so that the rest of the world could understand what they're talking about . So , public school , is in fact private? The entire body of terminology is just baffling.

[@designthinkingwithgian]

"We must confront the BARBARIC reality of human history!" Gotta love this Camille lady.

[@jimmmmy41]

As an instructional assistant in midwest American public elementary school, I see this tendency to deal with energetic young boys as misbehaving girls. We expect them to be docile, pay attention, sit still, etc. When they don't, language around diagnosis and medication, or "spectrum behavior' enters the conversation about behavior, even boy behavior on the playground at recess (rough play, pecking order behaviors, etc.). Boys, especially African American, from working class, less affluent families are impacted because their behaviors do not conform in the way upper middle class (white) boys who have been socialized to the expectations do. Typical group play of boys tends to be highly scrutinized due, in part, to the concerns of legal liability. It's that liability issue that, to a large degree, informs the reactions by faculty, staff, and admin. Too many kids in the classroom, generally, impacts this dynamic, also.

[@RAMZAVFX]

Glad to see someone outside of the black community saying this for once. I'm used to people like BGS saying that lol

[@RamonThomas]

This was worthwhile to watch and contemplate . I hope Warren Farrell could be part of similar panels. The Margret Thatcher comparison with a Hilary Clinton was terrific.

[@alexandert696]

Camille Paglia is brilliant, Im glad they held this even and Im surprised feminists didnt try to take them down but it should be a debate. The feminist dogma should be exposed thoroughly.

[@thecatinthehat1863]

as a single mother of three sons I have watched as they have struggled within the school system. I have battled to maintain my sons esteem through secondary school and it is an uphill struggle. when my middle son started school his dream was to be a teacher but they have put him off completely.

[@thecatinthehat1863]

He is a high achieving narcissist a child in a mans body, there are lots about, they come disguised as adults I am now better at spotting them, they tend to try to blame you for everything and take no resposibility.

[@virvisquevir3320]

The Cat in The Hat - God bless you! Get them physically strong, rough and tumble, laugh with them, tell them the world's crazy and that they have to strike out and create their own path no matter what anyone says. Make them sassy and independent, arrogant even. In the fight for resources, it's a tough world. Tell them to take chances - with women, with business, with career advancement - and that if they are rejected, that they are robust enough to deal with it and live cheerily to try another day.

[@michelangelobuonarroti8042]

Hate the use of bad language and swear words, it's a real sign of immaturity.

[@anthonygumbs4738]

It takes a man to raise another man. Have you ever looked out your window and seen a pigeon teaching a cat how to be a cat? So only a father can teach his son the essence of being a man. We live in a father less generation. I believe this points to the many problems we now see in western society. To the question of is masculinity relevant?? My gosh the ingratitude is stunning? Who has designed, built, protected and now maintains human society for thousands of years: MEN. But once the cement on the last brick has dried feminist and many women ask the question are men relevant? Is the roof on your house relevant? Please remove it through the winter and see how relevant, how absolutely essential it is. Like Camille said "brain washed young women and sooo many clichés" Well let's define that word - a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought. Yup camille hit the nail on the head. I'm surprised some on this thread know that something is coming. 'sow the wind 🍃 reap the whirlwind' I love listening to Camille she's intense and is a breath of fresh air. The beautiful thing is she was there at the genisis of 1st wave feminism, but then saw how it has morphed into the men bashing vindictive anti-equality movement it truly is. A frankenstien monster of epic proportions (2nd/3rd wave feminism)

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

Anthony Gumbs I can’t agree with you more my good sir! Good fathers raise good sons.

[@shelleyphilcox4743]

Good women can raise sons to be good men and good men can raise daughters to be good women. The ideal situation is two good loving parents, but it's another mistake to suggest that single opposite sex parents do not raise children to be adequate or good adults of either sex. If you really believe that to be true, then 50% of kids are being told there must be something wrong with them because they were raised by a single parent of the opposite sex and cant possibly understand what is expected of them as a man or woman and they will be, or are defunct in some way

[@uchihadabba699]

The last minute aged like fine wine.

[@johnwilliam6092]

I think a big problem is men being unfairly blamed by society for all the ills of the world. In particular straight, white men. Such as myself. I grew up in a decent household with two parents. But I honestly couldn't give a fuck about being a parent or getting married. I think the guy hit the nail on the head when he said nobody values men doing traditionally women's roles. Those are my three thoughts coming away from this debate.

[@robertosheldon9061]

It is quite comforting to have somebody of Camille Paglia's calibre on the side of reason. Such a powerful, well-spoken, optimistic and rational mind. Im in awe. Much respect from germany.

[@RAMZAVFX]

RIGHT? We need more titans like her.

[@sidjones16]

Masculinity is the opposite of femininity. Both influences are needed and balance one another out. "Toxic masculinity" is an act put on by those who grew up without fathers or had shitty examples of manhood (usually d-bags fathers or other young men who grew up without fathers).

[@intrigued16]

I totally agree, for example I used to drive Uber on the weekends, i came across a 21 year old gay boy that was in my car for about 45 minutes. Within the first 10 minutes he told me that he was gay and a Marxist. Which of course interest me because really because he was so young. But from there the conversation really went to toxic masculinity, what it is. The boy went on to describe his stepfather being physically and mentally abusive and then went on and gave me other examples of a few men in his life that were poor excuses for human beings. Which in turn he blames toxic masculinity for these actions put upon him by these men. He also said that over 50% of men especially white men are sociopaths. First I told him that the examples he gave are not examples of real men or any type of masculinity, toxic or not and that those people are just pieces of shit And are not men and are not men that are respected by good masculine men. I explained to him that those are examples of things good men would despise and If they would have seen what was going on would have stopped and stop it. The bottom line though is he sat there and gave me all types of examples of toxic masculinity. I then asked him what he thinks masculinity is. He was silent, he could not give me an answer. I then asked him how can you know what toxic masculinity is if you don't know what masculinity is? I also took his examples of toxic masculinity or the trait in which he feels was being used and gave him examples of that same trait of masculinity in a positive way. I also told him that he's 21 and that he is not met very many men and that as he gets older he will see that there are more good men out there than bad and that these examples he has dealt with will be few and far between as an adult. I also told him to keep an open mind in your younger years and listen more than talk because he has a lot to learn about life in the way things are based off what he has told me. The lesson of the story is that when I used his examples of toxic masculinity in ways that are good and I explained to him what masculinity is to the best of my ability. I also explained to him what a good man is and what good men think is manly and what the real term of alpha male is and that is not the loudest biggest a****** in the room. That is a wannabe. But by the time I dropped him off he was confused and he was open to what I was saying to him which surprised me. So I feel like if we give out the right message and the right message is heard. It will get some of these people that are against men or masculinity to come to reality and do the right thing.

[@turtle2905]

I loved my dad who was softer to me than my lovely wonderful mum . She didn’t like hugging sadly as a child ! My father was a war hero but I never knew that while he was alive . He stepped up when his superior officer was killed saved the men under him in Greece . He was gentle and kind that was all I ever knew of him ❤❤

[@austinthornton3407]

It’s always a mistake to attach oneself to an identity for the purpose of orientating ones path through life. Such a position makes change difficult and because change is inevitable, that makes for a difficult life. I don’t know what masculinity is. There are qualities I think are admirable in men, taking responsibility, courage, compassion and the development of skill. These qualities are also admirable in women. But the problem for men is simply their contingent relationship to children and family which are dominated by women. So men need to find something else and that something else is increasingly not the role of productive worker. That change has little to do with feminism and everything to do with the way modern capitalism has developed. The so called problem of masculinity is just a simple one of men who find themselves contingent in family life and contingent in employment, ie redundant. Needless to say that leads to some negative behaviours amongst some and the whole thing doesn’t do men’s reputation much good. What’s the answer? The answer is that men must reject this. Men’s problem is that they are being cast as conservatives trying to maintain an order that is not interested in them. To live dynamic useful and fulfilling lives , men need to take back the economic control they have lost by articulating a politics of economic control in localities, and they must get back involved in family life because their sons especially, need them. Feminism is a binary philosophy that analyses society according to gender and it is also a political movement for the advancement of women. But most women are not feminists because they do not think according to this simplistic binary formula and because feminism as a political movement is clearly an argument within an elite. So forget feminism. It’s not the issue. Communities and families are the issue. Start there because it’s where you are.

[@pauldinda5831]

So well done. Amazing. What a panel. Extraordinary... and so "spot on." I'm reminded of something C.S. Lewis said: "The child is the father of the man." Note, the "child," not the son or daughter. From mine, as a father of four, soooo true.

[@KibaRanger_Kou]

I'm utterly desensitized to the word "rape" now. It's the same as the "racist" thing now. Everything has been called this it's lost all meaning now. I wish Kim would just push the button already. What we need is a good war to wipe a few of us out to give us a proper perspective.

[@RAMZAVFX]

Need that asteroid that starts the next ice age. Then we'll see how toxic masculinity really is.

[@wyansas]

Kinda wish the panel had a 3rd wave feminist who would argue that masculinity is something humanity has outgrown just for some excitement.

[@wesleycristman3278]

Women defining masculinity is like fish trying to teach birds to fly

[@MrDunkycraig]

The sport idea is something i can relate to. My sons played as did i and my brother, their mum was a sportswomen to. They have turned out as good decent young men, and using and playing sport should not be underrated. It replaces things like war and manual jobs in the more animalistic sides of being men. Now i ended up as a stay at home dad. I had an injury at work. I have a far different relationship with them than i do with my father and that is a positive. Yet when i had my injury that outlet for releasing that my internal rage went and ive spent the last 24 years with complex mental health issue down to it. Thats my lived experience.

[@cmmndrblu]

I also think that sports are great. I think it helps if teachers don´t denigrate gay people. I´m fine with being told not to be a wuss, but the best sports classes are when kids are encouraged towards what they are good at, and not ignored. Most of the positive sports experiences I have had have happened as an adult, because I was an awkward kid, and my sports teachers mostly saw me as someone to ignore. I have seen some excellent sports teachers who are invested in helping everyone make progress and I wish I had had that. I didn´t want to be treated with kid gloves, I just didn´t know how to contribute. Now as an adult I love exercise and working out.

[@DarknessIsThePath]

Masculinity, Femininity or not, the main problem is not about those things, the main problem today is that a big portion of the western population is trying to control how others behave, speak and view the world. Being offended is not a crime, forcing others to follow your rigid views is the precursor of fascism

[@inotmark]

"The real toxins are in feminist theory", Paglia is so precise in her insights that it is hard to remember all of them. That one in pure gold.

[@sealisa1398]

Loves this....Paglia always speaks from common sense!

[@michelangelobuonarroti8042]

Mr Waters, I love you, true hero.

[@Xarkom89]

It's also not just an attack on masculinity but the DROP in boys and young men of natural testosterone levels. Boys if you are young and reading this -- workout. Ear healthy. You HAVE to keep moving, you can still play games, but you gotta build you body. Keep moving, rough house. (Smartly).

[@lindsaybrewer3689]

Camille is a legend💗

Such an awesome panel. Every sentence rings with logic and reason.

[@ajmaeenmahtab8456]

I am a muslim man from Bangladesh and I was born in 1992. I want to share this: Toxic femininity is more harmful to men than forcing men to be masculine. Most of my life my mother abused me. When I used to get bullied in school i used to fight back and then I used to get punished by my mother for fighting back. She used to think that if I learn to get violent then I might become a toxic male or a criminal when I grow up. She used to tell me to complain to my teachers if I get bullied. But those complaining did nothing, those female teachers could simply do nothing. I was beaten at home by mother repeatedly for not being good in my studies and in school I was being bullied. My mother is still a Muslim semi feminist house wife. All my life what I saw is this that the ideology of being a gentleman is inherently anti male. Men are shamed for staring at women even if they wear provocative clothes. Husbands are now scared of having sex with their wives for the fear of marital rape etc. That is why states which have the highest "respect" of women have the highest suicide rate of men. Men cannot be men in those countries, they cannot show ego/anger/frustrations , have to strictly control their impulses all the time. Who want to live like that.

[@AB-bt9eb]

I want Camille to be my intellectual mentor. She's the greatest thinker today.

[@andreabakas6274]

The Irish gentleman ROCKS!! PREACH.

[@anneveronica6231]

There are many types of strength and women are looking for one or another in a man - she may want intellectual strength and want an academic partner, she may want physical strength and want a sports star or gym trainer, she may want spiritual strength and look for a guru type man, she may want emotional strength and look for a psychologist or social strength and look for a community worker or politician - masculinity is strength - but all these types of strength can also be turned against her - it’s the misuse of strength that’s the problem.

[@eleveneleven572]

I was constantly beaten down at school for not paying attention, poor performance, boisterousness. I was never mentored, talked to, had things explained...just punished. I was told I was a failure, would "end up working on the busses". I struggled on against the programming. In my last 2 years at school they discovered I have an IQ of 154. VERY HIGH. Then I got enough quals to get offered a university place, turned it down to study a professional qualification, became Director of Finance for two of the largest UK NGO's, Chairman of my industry group, visiting professor......."retired" at 47. Two reasons for retiring. One...a wife with a chronic illness. Two...the workplace was becoming feminised, toxic, and I'd witnessed two colleagues destroyed by false allegations by women. One colleague was herself a woman. It was brutal what happened to the accused. The colleague who is male was also subjected to a mob of supporters of the accused....who simply supported her because she was female and he male. Like a Witch Trial. It was like working in a minefield. I got out and haven't looked back.

[@victimandvillian4611]

I remember the very first drug invented for ADHD. Fathers. Now we chemically castrate boys instead of just letting them romp until they cross the line. Fathers used to effectively handle that. I also think true masculinity is the system men have developed to tame their impulses and negative emotions and divert it into creativity and innovation.

[@middi6]

You cant teach rapists not to rape if they think so little of others that they believe they can do with them as they please all the don't rape lessons in the world wont convince them otherwise.

[@m74d3]

ChessyCelton That's precisely why the sexual harassment "training" that men are forced to do at work / college is so preposterous. There's a very small % of men that rape - and the training isn't going to stop them. They already know it's illegal and wrong, they just don't care. And for the other 99% of men who don't rape - that training is a complete waste of time since they'll never rape anyone anyway, even without the training. So the actual rapists won't be deterred by the training, and the vast majority of men who aren't rapists just have their time wasted by being forced to sit through it. It seems preposterous to suggest that the reason some men rape is because they don't know it's wrong. That makes no sense. They obviously know it's wrong, and illegal. That isn't the issue. What sort of idiot thought "Gee, I've figured it out- rapists think they're doing something good and moral. If we just teach them that rape is wrong, then they won't do it!" That's the logic of a 5 year old

[@jeremycorbyn4405]

Be warned. Satanists have used the Mandella Effect to move our solar system hundreds of lights years from Sagittarius to Orion's Arm. They have also changed Kit-Kat to Kit Kat. What horrors come next, only God knows.

[@martinburrows6844]

Good point made at around 55 mins. The fact that masculinity comes in as many forms as femininity.

[@PracticaProphetica]

1:08:18 - "...and that's why he [Donald Trump] is going to win..." Must have been before the election. This fellow was right!

[@elenaduran5174]

@ Frank Zimmerman: he was right in that the orange buffoon won. Extremely poor judgement to support that imbecile in any way. Sad day of affairs when a "man" who assaults women sexually is voted in as president and gets cheered for it. This is exactly what "toxic masculinity" is all about and what should be thrown out with the dirty water.

[@kingoftheseamusic]

Men and women should be taught to be strong individuals who help eachother. That simple.

[@iantodoyle7876]

Masculine culture has been going through a huge rewrite. Crudely put masculinity can be healthy functional and balanced. Or over functioning or under functioning. Under functioning leads to men who are boys , passive, irresponsible, lacking agency, not self aware etc. Over functioning is the power over, abusive, only self serving, predatory etc. We all have elements of this aspects, some dominate more than others in individuals. The term toxic masculinity is fundamentally shaming. Often women with a damaged relationship to men can see the healthy balanced male as a tyrant. And seek to impose the under functioning state on boys and men. Because they can then be controlled. If women are around these men they inevitably grow to resent and despise them. The kind of feminism that wants to emasculate men are creating a far worse situation than the one they fear. Women need to step up in their resilience , and actual self empowerment , and recognise that rights and responsibilities come in equal measure. Boys and girls suffer from a lack a positive fathering and male role models. I would rather be talking about what is positive masculinity, and how is that cultivated. I rarely see young men and women exposed to this influence. It is on men to step up and set the scene for this to happen. Women can certainly contribute to this, however women who have come to a clear place in themselves in relationship to men to offer helpful insight rather than projections of their personal drama seem few and far between. I do know many good men working this out personally, and acting to bring their hard won growth into the world.

[@intrigued16]

I find it happening too often in our civilization that we talk about what we think is the problem way too much and spend way too much time of avoiding the solutions. At least it seems like we are avoiding it. An individual's life is based on good balance and good environmental influences. I coach youth sports and volunteer for other types of youth programs. I see it way too often that there is such a lack of good and positive male nfluences on our society and children especially. I know this is a problem because I see so many single mothers that unknowingly handle situations with their sons in particularly the wrong way. Not in the wrong way from a mother's angle or a woman's perspective. When their son is going through something they're handling it as a mother would and as hard as they try they also try and address it from a male's perspective or a father's perspective but fail to understand why in many ways they make the situation worse. Wow that was a tongue twister of a thought. But when these women tell me how they addressed certain situations with their son and come to me with frustrations. After they tell me what they did I try to explain to them what they said or how they handle it is either going to do nothing or make it worse. Then when I tell them how to handle it from a fatherly point of view or male point of view they tend to look at me like I'm crazy. Lol And that's because of the difference between men and women and why the balance between mother and father when raising a child is so important. Which a lot of the times with the single mothers their sons masculinity is extremely affected because their son is either unable to express his masculinity, have it be understood or being taught how to handle masculinity from which those things are mostly taught by and seen through the father. Kind of went on a rant here and got a bit too wordy. I hope you understand what I'm saying and that I agree with you. If people think suppressing masculinity or demonizing it is going to help. My god they are sorely mistaken. The backlash that is going to cause will be extremely detrimental to our society and the balance in which we work on.

[@jonathanmosher72]

Not one of the panel is talking about the deeper problems which have been associated with hyper-masculinity in authoritarian culture. Hyper-masculinity was coined 70 years ago and not one person talks about it.

[@kavolis]

Not succeeding in school, at college or university actually is a... good thing. The ones who did mistakes and have failed, but were still moving forward are prepared better for situations of real life. College campus life is far from real life model. Not eve close.

[@benden5095]

Camille is amazing I could listen to her all day.

[@peterlantela4556]

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principals, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)....................................... go to my page on Fakebook @ peter Lantela, for the honest truth about our culture

[@johnweil6685]

Queens throughout Western Civilization were 27% more likely to declare war than kings according to a Harvard study.

[@millamilla10]

this video is a breath of fresh air! I'm so glad that there are people who value men and manhood!

[@macoisdealbh5082]

This is a great discussion of the issues facing men and women within current gender issues. At times I disagreed with every one of the participants but in the end a great discussion and incredibly revealing.