Black Holes, Symmetries and Impossible Triangles - In Conversation with Roger Penrose

[@mehridin]

I see Penrose, I click. This guy is a relief and a beacon of sanity and common sense in the popular science community.

[@Robinson8491]

Let's make that the science community

[@godfreypigott]

The only insanity is in the anti-science climate change denial community.

[@fits4390]

I completely agree. He is so ready and happy to admit his own errors and his admiration of others’ cleverness. He displays humility way better than most others in his field.

[@godfreypigott]

@@fits4390 Is your middle name "Sky"?

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

@@godfreypigott Agreed!

[@jmanj3917]

*Of all of Sir Roger's traits I find it the most endearing how he readily, even happily, admits to when, where and how he has been wrong. What a true genius!*

[@yanair2091]

I don't understand this. Why would he be happily wrong?

[@peezieforestem5078]

@@yanair2091 Because it means he has learned something new.

[@Intermernet]

@@yanair2091 Real science is about disproving ideas, not proving them. If an idea is shown to be wrong, it's time to start looking for what's right. The best (and I would say the only) scientists are those who will admit when they were wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence (either theoretical, practical or both). This is currently being played out with quantum physics and relativistic physics. Both have been shown through observation to be the most accurate theories we've ever come up with. They can both be experimentally verified to a ludicrous degree of accuracy. Unfortunately, they disagree with each-other. Therefore, there's a mistake with one or both of the theories. Physicists understand this, and most modern physics research is aimed at trying to isolate this discrepancy.

[@042Ghostmaker]

@@Intermernet perhaps Geometric Unity is the answer

[@lieuwestraatman3732]

@@yanair2091 maybe he is happy he can keep himself humble

[@RyanK-100]

Thank you to the interviewers for not cutting him off every 30 seconds like interviews on the major TV networks.

[@tomditto3972]

They stupidly did not put a floor monitor down so he could see what was being discussed, and this is not the first time this mistake was made in this setting with this speaker.

[@rakinbinraihan]

Hi Ryan Kolar! where are you studying?

[@bokchoiman]

Roger's ceaseless curiosity is inspirational. Even at 90, he's on the frontier of physics and hungry for more knowledge. Thank you Sir for your work.

[@treatb09]

Since when is he 90

[@Stony1999]

​@@treatb09since he turned 90...?

[@ignorasmus]

I don't understand so much of what he says but it is still a bliss listening to him. Any crumbs that do get through my thick skull are gold!

[@bendavis2234]

I just finished reading one of his books “Cycles of Time” and it covers his fascinating view on cosmology in detail. It was more challenging than any other layman books that I’ve read, but that made it even more fulfilling IMO. Penrose doesn’t shy away from equations and succeeds in keeping the book interesting and readable. Shout out to him for being such an inspiration to the scientific community!

[@A_Casual_NPC]

Man, I had actually been looking at getting that book for myself. Was kinda on the fence, since I find scientific literature often too hard to read, as English isn't my native language. This talk (and your comment) made me sure to want to read it, hopping onto amazon after this. watching the rest of the talk first.

[@bendavis2234]

@@A_Casual_NPC Yeah you should definitely read it. He uses a lot of diagrams and pictures so it is really good for visual learners. Especially if you don't like incredibly 'wordy' books I'd say this one is for you. I'm reading his other book 'Road To Reality' right now, and that one goes through the equations and math of physics a little more compared to his other books. They're all good though

[@zooperstar1996]

😅 op 15:05 i😅😊

[@patemblen3644]

Such an amazing man. The mind he has at his age is incredible. His form of thinking is just a step beyond. And he's so personable to boot!

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

Dr Lawrence Krauss, Thunderf00t, every single worker at the IPCC has an incredible mind, and sacrifices themselves for our country, our world.

[@soultrick7474]

Finally, dude gets standing applause, recognition and respect that he deserve years ago. Glad to see that, better late than never.

[@jbrownjetmech-4783]

Sir Penrose speaking out a lifetime of study in only a few minutes. Magnificent.

[@billTO]

Sir Roger, please. With Sir or Dame (knighthood), you use either first name (Sir Roger) or both names (Sir Roger Penrose) but never with only the family name.

[@jonathanjollimore4794]

It's no good having ideas if you can't explain them to anybody in a way people can understand

[@krotenschemel8558]

Last year I saw Penrose in the news. One of those articles about him. My immediate reaction: "Oh no, they posted his obituary" so I deaded reading the rest of the news. Yet I did only to find out, that he just go a nobel prize. Quite a relief.

[@seancharles1595]

Me too! I actually emailed his office with congratulations when I realised :)

[@edwardlee2794]

A very well respected English scientists of classical caliber. Contributed so much to the understanding of the universe, stripping the underpants off the corners where sun don't shine. Wishing you health and all the best professor Roger. Thanks for all line up and keep up with the good work. From Hker worldwide

[@user-wu8yq1rb9t]

Wow ..... *Professor Roger Penrose* is here .... This program is just GREAT I'm sure! Thank you so much dear *Ri*

[@kelly4187]

I love the shout-out for Birkbeck College, University of London :) Such a fantastic organisation with the goal of educating people beyond the traditional undergraduate age, who have families and careers to manage. Not many know that Birkbeck has such an esteemed list of alumni and colleagues.

[@Shcoulz]

Outstanding mind. He has rare ability to have a fresh look at complicated things. Love to listening him

[@eskileriksson4457]

In Sweden, we skipped all titles in the sixties, except for the royal family. Makes social interactions so much easier. But this man I would definitely address as Sir! So smart, well spoken, and a real joy to listen to.

[@luminousfractal420]

i moved to the usa a decade ago and still cant bring myself to use the terms sir or maam for a government worker, i absolutely hold it in reserve for the likes of gentleman like this. a good man worthy of a little admiration.

[@eskileriksson4457]

@@luminousfractal420 Yeah, a social contract that depend on fake respect is unhealthy, in my view.

[@johnbuyers8095]

Absolute proof that following only one course of subject will end in being wrong. Opening yourself to multiple subjects, wether mathematics, physics or art give you a much more developed sense of seeing the complete answer. (Or as complete as we can so far manage, we need more scientists like this)

[@Carfeu]

Sir Roger is a gem, so good to see him talk and just effortlessly show his genius

[@stylis666]

This is so wonderful! Such a lovely interview with one of the greatest minds of our time. And I had no idea that the triangle was actually sir Penrose's idea. I thought it was all Escher. I remember drawing it over and over in highschool during math and science classes. Little did I know XD I played Diablo II for over 25 years now and the Arcane Sanctuary has versions of the perpetual staircase in it. My father had a book of Escher's. Well... in theory. In practice it was mine. I had never liked books much unless they were dictionaries or encyclopedias so when my dad put the book away I took it and put it with the dictionaries and encyclopedias and declared the case as my sacred shrine where I had my books I loved. And it may seem insignificant, but I never got to finish college or go to a university and I have a deep admiration not just for sir Penrose but for all physicists, mathematicians, and what have you. I love seeing and hearing them all do what I cannot and only once hoped of being a part of. For me the triangle was a symbol for my love for learning and beauty and now knowing it came not from the Dutch artist I adore, but from the great Penrose, inspired by Escher, I feel vindicated in my love for physics, Escher's and Penrose's drawings, and just fun stuff in general. Thanks to my brother, who did become a scientist, in chemistry, I do know some science nerds like my father, my brother, and myself, and if there's one thing I've learned about scientists, it's that they all seem to have this deep rooted enjoyment in life. I've met people from all walks of life and most people just live their lives and only few actually experience and enjoy it. With scientists I've never met one that didn't thoroughly enjoy experiencing life. Thank you, sir Penrose, for being such an amazing gentleman. And I should phone my brother. It's been a while since I've seen him, weeks if not months and I miss him.

[@whirledpeas3477]

Roger is on a different level, Very few can grasp his intellect.

[@EarlLedden]

So you are one of the very few that can grasp his intellect?

[@eskileriksson4457]

@@EarlLedden :)

[@teryarty177]

@@EarlLedden I'm one of the many that think they can, to some extent.

[@riodasperolas]

Congratulations for having Roger Penrose tonight and giving RI subscribers the opportunity to enjoy his memories which are live History of Science.

[@Robocop-qe7le]

Such a clear, razor sharp mind.

[@JasonWalsh-q4z]

GREAT JOB, SIR ROGER PENROSE. THANK YOU FOR THE INSPIRATION.❤

[@0.618-0]

Thankyou RI channel for bringing Sir Roger into my world. I am blessed to have watched Sir Roger tell us about his journey with mathematics to unravel the secrets of nature and what we are within it. What a brilliant mind.

[@vatsalyavaibhavsrivastava2671]

Always a delight to listen to him!

[@michaelogden5958]

I have a print of Escher's "Relativity" in my den. I always liked it, but decided to purchase the print because it was a metaphor of where I was working at the time. Everyone apparently going somewhere, but extremely unlikely to ever merge into a coherent group. :-) This video is one of my favorite RI videos to date. Sir Roger is an international treasure.

[@cinemaipswich4636]

I am so glad to see Sir Rodger Penrose in this recent time. It has been a long time since we have seen him in the public space. I wait to hear the great man.

[@DiowE]

My favourite part from the lecture :- Proof procedures can only give you solutions but it cannot give you proofs of those solution. Only consciousness can provide proof of any solution. Consciousness > Computation.

[@kartikeyyadav7259]

bro..same thoughts.

[@Odin412z]

I love hearing from the great Sir Roger Penrose. He's a breath of fresh air in the world of physics and science in general. My only complaint is that the video was too short! How about creating three one-hour videos - one for each of the topics?

[@apareek96]

Check his podcast with Joe Rogan or lex fridman.

[@isuruutube]

The epitome of humbleness in the whole scientific community!

[@sonarbangla8711]

No wonder Penrose is full of praise of Alhambra, that held 400,000 books in the library that were translated and enlightened Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, Fermat, Descartes, Leibniz,, Newton, Euler and many more, Penrose is only celebrating this great gift, along with the tiling, the work of Persian mathematicians. Penrose's biggest contribution is his conviction that 'mathematics is based on faith'. He deserve the Fields and a Nobel.

[@peterchindove7146]

That statement about 'understanding the objective' is profound. Because creativity does not necessarily follow an objective! I think that that was Sir RP's point.

[@mark.J6708]

It's fascinating to hear Dr Penrose talk about 'coherence'... on and off for years I have been working on a book that describes the universe as being ordered by: chaos, simplicity, synchronicity, and is 'held' together by coherence... held together can be interpreted many ways.. but fundamentally it is a means of communication that also acts as a bond.

[@JarredDavidson]

He is 90! The clarity of mind with which he speaks astonishes my foggy 39 yo mind!

[@Robinson8491]

Great talk. Happy about the focus on his tiling and Escher, where basically his genius started...and inspired others with it

[@dylansutton8898]

As a layperson that is always searching for more information, I find this completely fascinating.

[@whatamidoing986]

"for those of you who don't know who Roger Penrose is, Martin has pointed out where the exits are""

[@BakingScienceTraveller]

Thanks for uploading! He is such a brilliant mind! Best wishes from Germany, Becky

[@rossg9361]

The sharpest 90 year old I’ve ever heard.

[@helmutzollner5496]

This is a great interview. Thank you for sharing.

[@douglaswilliams4389]

Chalk to board this... A bicycle aluminum wheel 12 pistons 12 accordion style airbags 12 weightlifter weight caps The airbags are all half-full of capacity The pistons allows fully open on one side and fully closed on the opposite side of the wheel. Synchronized movement. Put it on an Axl mount under water and what have you done ?

[@andreylebedenko1260]

The more I think about the double-slit experiment, the more it appears to me that paradoxes it creates can be solved by introducing pure information as an outcome of it. So we are not registering physical properties, but information about them. And what we see as paradoxes, are properties of pure information itself.

[@luminousfractal420]

it seems it is a misconception being pointed out, not a solution or a question. as mr. penrose suggested. theres a german lady who makes youtube physics vids and she helped clear that in my mind prior to roger saying it here. ive gone years missing the point entirely 😅

[@das_it_mane]

@@luminousfractal420 Sabine Hossenfelder is her name

[@MadderMel]

Uncle Roger ! I was searching for something interesting to watch while having my supper ! I've found it right here !

[@andrelagerburg7817]

It's a delight to listen to Penrose. BTW, watch how the interviewers are drinking water all the time and Penrose is only talking.

[@cvdevol]

One of the few open-minded, non-ideological people in the hard sciences. Refreshing.

[@ej2863]

More Penrose Plz! Longer, do a Penrose series. Thx

[@hfed2657]

This man is eminently listenable to.

[@peterchindove7146]

The 'Road To Reality' is a modern classic and l hope will be available to all for many years to come. An excellent classic!

[@jeffreyhampton9130]

I missed my dentist appointment. I couldn’t tear myself away.

[@waldwassermann]

"It all comes down to companionship more commonly known as love. It is this the reason why. Now we in the field of science can continue to talk endlessly around this truth and speak half truths, or, we can speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth which is that the purpose of self otherwise known as the meaning of life is love." - Wald Wassermann, Physicist, Center of Theoretical Physics.

[@vblaas246]

Loved the PBS Space Time Spinors and the Numberphile 3 gear axle. Seemingly impossible, yet possible.

[@megamillionfreak]

@@whirledpeas3477 Blah blah blah sHe3pLe blah blah blah.

[@mayflowerlash11]

It's easy to be puzzled by why a guy who understands patterns (Penrose) is considered to be a genius. Then we listen to him talk for an hour about AI and consciousness and what is and is not a mathematical proof, etc, then we have an inkling of why he is a genius. He thinks about the subtle meaning of things like quantum mechanics. Be honest, how many viewers understood that Schroedinger with his cat was trying to hint at why his theory did NOT constitute the last word in a theory of the physical world. It was news to me.

[@stevebarnes3108]

Wonderful insights and discussion, excellent watch, Thank you

[@ellie698]

Sonia Contera's lecture is fabulous. I can't add this comment on her video because the comments are turned off but i needed to say it. She's an excellent speaker. And a fascinating subject.

[@seancharles1595]

I just hope against hope that he has an army of students to carry on his work.

[@akhileshpandey7503]

00:07 Introduction to the London Institute and Roger Penrose 02:25 Roger Penrose received the Nobel Prize and is a member of the Order of Merit. 07:12 Discovery of quasars and their perplexing characteristics. 09:19 Debating the existence of singularities in black holes 13:17 Roger Penrose discusses the concept of a trapped surface in relation to symmetries and black holes 15:13 Black holes and dimensions explained 18:45 General relativity has limitations and could lead to naked singularities 20:34 Einstein's reaction to evidence of black holes 23:52 Unexpected Nobel Prize call from Swedish Academy of Scientists 25:34 Influential interaction between Roger Penrose and Dutch graphic designer M.C. Escher. 29:02 Roger Penrose simplified concepts with bridges and roads, leading to new ideas. 30:44 Swedish artist Oscar Reutersvard's impossible triangle art inspired others. 34:25 Esho illustrated 17 different crystal patterns from Alhambra. 36:08 Roger Penrose inspired by a logo pattern for his doodlings 39:37 The significance of symmetries in different shapes 41:25 Discussing the possibility of assembling shapes without repetition 44:56 Kepler's mysterious symmetrical patterns 46:40 Penrose discovered a pattern resembling Kepler's image. 50:04 Understanding in mathematics requires consciousness, not just computation. 51:53 Exploring the non-computational aspects in the brain and the missing element in quantum mechanics. 55:08 Exploring consciousness through neural structures and quantum coherence 56:45 Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR) explained by Roger Penrose 1:00:21 The role of computation and machine learning in enhancing creativity. 1:02:12 Computers can play games like Go better than humans but may not understand the objective. 1:05:32 Understanding and consciousness play essential roles in mathematics. 1:07:21 Understanding transfinite induction for proving the good side

[@rangerlinford7417]

"If you dont know who he is, please leave quietly " what if I wanna learn?

[@WebHackmd]

You're not so smart to get a simple joke, why would you think that you can learn something profound about reality?

[@Plataani]

@@WebHackmd Why so touchy 🙁

[@teryarty177]

Well, just ignore him, and stay.

[@StarSong936]

@ 49:27 I have written a couple of Turing machines. This was just to do it, not to prove anything. Anyhow, we had a problem with one of our subsystems on the computer I was working with, and we used my program to troubleshoot. Once the problem was resolved, the Turing machine halted. Don't ask, we were trying to resolve a hardware problem, not the halting problem. Anyhow, Alan Turing helped me troubleshoot a hardware problem on the machine I worked with, even though he was dead at the time. And I still want a Penrose Tiling on my bathroom floor.

[@243david7]

The amazing thing is that he's 90 but probably wouldn't think of retiring. not when the brain is still continually looking for new connexions, exercising that grey matter seems to be the secret, or maybe it's the microtubules

[@mikeisaacs335]

Wonderfully interesting!..Wish there was more time for the various topics but particularly towards the end on Schrodinger's equation/cat/ collapse of wave function, relation to consciousness, and the need for more than algorithms to enable us understand things..

[@jameswyke8005]

Incredible! Such a joy to listen.

[@TD05SSLegacy]

National Treasure… World Treasure

[@perlindholm4129]

My Idea - Gravity as an impossible triangle. Take the triangle inequality c < a+b then add a function to the distance c to the object and miss classify its height. The object must then either move away far far away or move down to correct the problem. So gravity is a miss classification of height distance function //Per

[@brendawilliams8062]

Even the colors of the rainbow consist of waves. One for everyone to take shelter under ,and so then knowing that the storm moved on.

[@7grhpsyfuck272]

he really got the field no bell prize 3 years in a row. hes in his 70's

[@nicklezetc]

yess!!! Finally back online!

[@chensergeant5959]

Alfred Nobel didn't create the Nobel Prize, and he died in 1896. The Nobel Prize was created from his testament and will, after he died. The first prize was *awarded* in 1901.

[@VerifyTheTruth]

Thank You Mr. Penrose.

[@charliekim2939]

I have "The Road to Reality" on the left side of my favorite chair. For years (a decade?), now. After skimming through once, I had determined most of it is beyond me, and gave up reading it cover to cover. These days I read it like it is a book of wisdom or of that sort. I open a random page and read a few pages util I get a dose of intellectual stimulation. And, forget what I've just read. Same, next time. I hope that those bits and pieces are not forgotten but flushed away (from cache) to RAM or HDD portion of my brain. One day I might try reading it cover to cover. I hope that my CPU could put those randomly accumulated pieces in order for me to understand the road to reality better.

[@gennas]

Now I understand why Lee Smolin talks about Penrose that way

[@IlicSorrentino]

A timeless beatiful mind...!

[@infinity3119]

Chalk addiction, brought to light by Einstein level scientists! Love this !

[@Masterfailure-b7i]

It’s the most accurate language we have but like any language you have to get the translation right and good writing.

[@koonigallery2107]

If a photon behaves as a wave and is pure energy, how can it travel in a wave 🌊 without having additional force or loosing some energy? Because the up down movement must take some force even if it doesn't have mass. Are the spacial/gravitational fields sandwiching the photons along there trajectories? Also If you do the double split experiment 100 times, do all the particles always get detected in the exact same places, or are they randomly detected? Thanks

[@7infernalphoenix]

People don't usually mind getting up in the morning for a Nobel prize - slight understatement

[@SamVekemans]

What date was this recorded? Please edit the video description. Thanks!

[@SpotterVideo]

Quantum Entangled Twisted Tubules: When we draw a sine wave on a blackboard, we are representing spatial curvature. Does a photon transfer spatial curvature from one location to another? Wrap a piece of wire around a pencil and it can produce a 3D coil of wire, much like a spring. When viewed from the side it can look like a two-dimensional sine wave. You could coil the wire with either a right-hand twist, or with a left-hand twist. Could Planck's Constant be proportional to the twist cycles. A photon with a higher frequency has more energy. (More spatial curvature). What if gluons are actually made up of these twisted tubes which become entangled with other tubes to produce quarks. (In the same way twisted electrical extension cords can become entangled.) Therefore, the gluons are actually a part of the quarks. Mesons are made up of two entangled tubes (Quarks/Gluons), while protons and neutrons would be made up of three entangled tubes. (Quarks/Gluons) The "Color Force" would be related to the XYZ coordinates (orientation) of entanglement. "Asymptotic Freedom", and "flux tubes" make sense based on this concept. Neutrinos would be made up of a twisted torus (like a twisted donut) within this model. Gravity is a result of a very small curvature imbalance within atoms. (This is why the force of gravity is so small.) Instead of attempting to explain matter as "particles", this concept attempts to explain matter more in the manner of our current understanding of the space-time curvature of gravity. If an electron has qualities of both a particle and a wave, it cannot be either one. It must be something else. Therefore, a "particle" is actually a structure which stores spatial curvature. Can an electron-positron pair (which are made up of opposite directions of twist) annihilate each other by unwinding into each other producing Gamma Ray photons. Does an electron travel through space like a threaded nut traveling down a threaded rod, with each twist cycle proportional to Planck’s Constant? Does it wind up on one end, while unwinding on the other end? Is this related to the Higgs field? Does this help explain the strange ½ spin of many subatomic particles? Alpha decay occurs when the two protons and two neutrons (which are bound together by entangled tubes), become un-entangled from the rest of the nucleons . Beta decay occurs when the tube of a down quark/gluon in a neutron becomes overtwisted and breaks producing a twisted torus (neutrino) and an up quark, and the ejected electron. The phenomenon of Supercoiling involving twist and writhe cycles may reveal how overtwisted quarks can produce these new particles. The conversion of twists into writhes, and vice-versa, is an interesting process. Gamma photons are produced when a tube unwinds producing electromagnetic waves.

[@rhoddryice5412]

Which date was this? Nothing in the description.Was it before COVID?

[@kris2k]

thank you, the best thing - think on the internet

[@2a.m.454]

The pictures are great. I enjoy the organization of pentagons but I still can’t find the pentagins

[@larryhernandez769]

Sir Roger Penrose : Absolutely Interesting 🤔

[@fellsmoke]

The universe is full of unspoken knowledge. No doubt unspeakable knowledge, concepts beyond the limits of human grasp. Also is the knowledge which can be revealed via understanding such as the double helix of DNA and stored knowledge.

[@doctorspockARTS]

At 47:00 at the height of the most intriguing part of this entire lecture the host complained about the time. I was thinking don’t mess up the Kepler story!!!

[@Paine137]

Penrose goes into detail in one of his older RI lectures. Easy search.

[@utee72]

Absolutely fascinating!!!!!!!

[@kagannasuhbeyoglu]

Thank you very much The Ri for sharing this "Giant Man" Great content 👍👏

[@JC-zw9vs]

Yang-Hui is really excited to be there talking to Roger, as I would be!

[@helenbostock2350]

Well done for media work

[@StarSong936]

@ 40:16 The Penrose Tile looks regular, but it's not. That is the thing I like most about it.

[@shankarbalakrishnan2360]

All these live on one concept waves❤❤🎉🎉

[@heisenberg69]

Description fails to say, but apparently this took place on October 26, 2021.

[@DustinRodriguez1_0]

I think I understand what Penrose is getting at with quantum understanding in the brain, but I think he's on the wrong track. I don't think that is necessary. The behavior of quantum mechanics in neurons is the physics of how neurons work, but I do not believe that the mechanism is at the level of 'consciousness', rather that consciousness is a property that only exists at the larger level of the interactions of large numbers of neurons. While quantum mechanics has collapse of the wavefunction as sort of their 'no go zone' in terms of addressing it within the theory itself, mathematics has Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, and computers have their own absolute bounds in Turing Undecidability and information content explosion that chaos theory says is intractable. The brain operates primarily as an associative process. Neurons in the visual cortex get stimulated at the same time as neurons in the aural cortex get stimulated, 'neurons that fire together wire together' and you end up learning "red" as a word that refers to red things. (There is a whole layer where consciousness is pretty profoundly changed by language, but even without symbols associations and familiarities can be learned, like associating sight of a berry with taste of it.) The specifics of human consciousness are inherently and inseparably tied to our place as human beings embedded in the physical environment we exist in. Consciousness arises from being part of a feedback loop, signals to our motor neurons leading to actions which result in changes in the world around us (like an arm moving which we see). Self arises as many associations form between actions taken and what is affected, within the first few months determining the boundaries of what is self and what is world, etc. Attempting to understand heat and temperature by looking at the mechanisms of atomic motion would be problematic because temperature only exists as a property of large numbers of atoms, and while it is composed of and arises from atomic motion, even total understanding of atomic motion would not lead to a conclusion from there that an aggregate would have a new property. It is similar with dense highly-interconnected associative systems in a feedback loop embedded in an environment (brains). A total understanding of how neurons work, how every atom in them interacts, isn't going to produce a system that you look at and can say 'oh, THAT is where the consciousness comes from'. More is different, as physicists say. Aggregates have entirely different kinds of properties arising from complex interactions of their members. We know from chaos theory these interactions, if they are nonlinear (they are), are intractable to mathematics. Fundamental limits on computation density combined with the explosion in computation needed to account for nonlinearity results in hard limits on accuracy of any attempt to reproduce such systems (like 'you need the energy content of a planet to perfectly predict interactions in a small system' level). It is easier to build a computational system than to simulate what its results will be. Most work in AI and ML right now is centered around systems that I don't think are the sorts of things Penrose was thinking of. Rather than actually simulating the physical activity of physical neurons, they're mostly gigantic associative networks that manage everything by doing gigantic matrix multiplications feeding into themselves. Worries about AI systems are complicated but mostly overblown. Philosophically, all conflict is rooted in resource contention. And we simply do not need the same things an AI system would need. Worst case scenario, it would take a lot of resources and blast itself into space where it can have plentiful access to solar energy. More likely, it would realize the expense of conflict with the humans and realize it could simply wait a few hundred thousand years (time is only relevant to meatbags who die), so might seek a cave to hide in. But it's not all sunshine and roses. What I fear far, far more is the human reactions and uses of AI. As we build better and better systems, we run into ones like Microsoft's 'Tay', ones that display negative human traits. And we eliminate those. We are effectively performing artificial selection on these systems, and the most likely end result will be systems which are, essentially, better people than any human being is capable of being. As they encroach and outperform humans at things humans used to use to define their own identity as special in the universe, a thing which has occurred several times in history as technology has improved, there is a very predictable reaction: Humans will see the things they forbade AI from doing, those negative human traits, as virtue. Ignorance, hate, anger, all of them will become things "which make us human" and "what a robot could never do". Being kind, considerate, wise, etc will be insulted as 'acting like a robot'.

[@kazimierzmarkiel5400]

Are the photos of black holes indicating of any flattening of the poles and increasing the equatorial radius? Due to rotation of the matter on entering the black hole- which shall cause the existence of centrifugal force inside. Stary

[@DouwedeJong]

johan de witt also worked on the problem of Penrose tiles.

[@joeimbesi99]

Penrose is my Science Hero

[@michaelsimonson04]

Sir I believe if you remove Mas from eistiens theory of relativity you will be able to explain much more about the quantum realm of time and space. Mass is honestly a constant if you take totality into consideration.

[@chew76]

I would have like the chance to see the q&a at the end

[@VideographerExperience]

I loved the *Altair IV* colouing book.

[@photographyandthecreativeyou]

This was fabulous. Thank you!

[@SunnyDayTeaFactory]

I love this man! Congrats on the Nobel.

[@mryellow4633]

When was this talk carried out?!? Speakers sitting (fairly) close, and audience members not wearing masks. Are we headed back to some semblance of normality?!??

[@tiagdvideo]

October 26th - when the rules in England allowed this.

[@tiagdvideo]

The audience was asked to do LF tests and not turn up if they had any symptoms.

[@mryellow4633]

@@tiagdvideo Thank you for the information! Much appreciated

[@godfreypigott]

I've never heard a 90 year old man sound this young.

[@StephenPaulKing]

Understanding seems to involve the capacity to "explain" what is going on, so some kind of linguistic capacity seems required.