Black Panther & The Oscars: The Death of Objective Film Criticism

[@amiefortman7220]

What ticked me off about the "these four men and Greta Gerwig" quip is that one of those four men was Guillermo del Toro, a Latino man who's gone on record multiple times saying that "The Shape of Water" was a fable for the experiences of immigrants in America (he related all his life to the monsters in old monster movies and thought there was an interesting comparison to be made there). Was that aspect suddenly irrelevant just because he's a man? When you only focus on one issue, you block out all the other issues and just end up sounding tone-deaf--a distinction that's lost on a lot of people.

[@RanMouri82]

People who act high and mighty for applause can't show insight and concern at the same time, no it's no wonder they seem tone-deaf. It's flaky and annoying.

[@terrancehall9762]

was she wrong though?

[@acmart99]

Guillermo Del Toro is white passing though...

[@boboboy8189]

@@acmart99 white olive

[@ZeSgtSchultz]

@@acmart99 white passing is the most goofy term I've ever heard. I dont anyone who thinks they're white passing has actually had any "full" white people go huh, guess hes a whitey like me"

[@ApocalexNow]

If people care about diversity in movies, they should watch foreign cinema more. There are hundreds of incredible films out there that don't feature any white people nor English.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

No diversity in American films then I see

[@ApocalexNow]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 without looking at any data I'd say there's good representation of African Americans but very little of Asians or Latinos. And beyond that virtually nothing. So yes diversity in Hollywood is a problem. But movies about other types of people do exist, they just exist in other countries. There are wonderful films that come out of Iran, Korea, Central and Eastern Europe, Africa etc. The more popular they become,the more distribution they receive. Look at music, the biggest band in the world right now is BTS. That happened purely in spite of western music's indifference to the rise of kpop.

[@dargondude2375]

But it's not just about black people just magically like other black people on the screen. Its also about black people having the opportunity to be in the spotlight.

[@dargondude2375]

@i Draw If you think that Africans from Africa and African Americans are the same, I suggest *you* go to Africa to see the difference.

[@whitealliance9540]

@@dargondude2375 lol this is hardest to explain to black people

[@lilangel3034]

Discalimer: I am a black person. BP is not a best picture winner, but it deserved costume design and score.

[@Ursichan]

Sadly I felt the movie was boring and confusing... But I very much agree with your point about costume. That was pretty bad ass!

[@shayanahmed7132]

Even costume design and score had some good competition.

[@whitleypedia]

@@Ursichan I like that Macabre points out that Black Panther had a more interesting storyline in Civil War -- because he did. The point of Black Panther (the movie) is to portray Killmonger -- a guy whose name is literally Killmonger! -- in as sympathetic and heroic a light as possible. It's pretty disgusting actually. The score was great though.

[@XIX965]

@@whitleypedia uh I disagree I think they explicitly portrayed killmonger as a villain The point of the movie was his way was wrong and t'challa way at the end of the movie is the correct way

[@abdulkhafidsulaymaan]

who cares what color you are just speak the truth

[@oneutch4048]

"It creates an impression that any nomination of a film featuring a diverse cast is simply an effort for the Oscars to seem more inclusive".

[@xsomeNOOBx]

How does it feel to look back and know that best picture now requires exactly this? Treat them as equals...lol

[@midnightfenrir]

Diversity is Our Strength

[@Erebus66]

@@midnightfenrir Nice religious mantra you got going.

[@kabine1]

There's a soft bigotry of low expectations. And when the pot calls the kettle racist, we kinda all know its confession through projection.

[@danielzerich2179]

Everyone needs to come together and not let the media divide and conquer.

[@jacotromp59581]

The Oscar's were a ceremony we used to watch each year in our house for many years. We discussed the movies, we had bets on winners and it was fun. Now, I think sitting on the toilet watching video's of cats is more fun, more meaningful and more real and genuine than anything about the oscars.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Ditto. It makes me physically cringe to watch them now. Sams with the Emmys and globes.

[@montesoul]

My only critique would be how as a POC I've noticed how consistently people have missed the most important line of the movie than encompassed the entire theme. When T'challa tells at his Father "You were all wrong! Why didn't you bring him home?" The dichotomy between Africans and Black Americans and that Diaspora is what BP was about. The other themes weren't all that well executed BUT that one was, and hasn't been replicated since.

[@mercutio6623]

Exactly how I see it...sins of the father

[@itz-luigi1210]

Nice take. Excellent observation. I was not a fan of this movie but I was of that line

[@justliving920]

The reason for the conflict between black Americans and Africans is because Africans are smart enough and enough out of the bubble to see that for the majority of black Americans problems, they are the root of the issue, and nobody else. That's why black immigrants do outrageously well in America.

[@montesoul]

@@justliving920 lol you literally missed the ENTIRE point huh? Africans didn't have to deal with Jim Crow, Redlining or underfunded education systems or systemic oppression under AMERICA. Immigrants in general do better than regular Americans. Foh with that shit man lol

[@charlesliu5320]

This is video is so measured and convincing that it pains me to think of the number of people who will automatically dislike from the title alone rather than watch the actual video

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Probably could have been more fleshed out in retrospect but I appreciate it!

[@gigishroom]

Completely agree! I saw the title and immediately thought it was one of those "The Quartering" types or I frgt the name the dude that made a 10h dark souls 2 critique, that come out with these "Objective Criticism, but when I saw the youtuber I realized I was wrong lol

[@theworstcatholic7247]

@@gigishroom Not going to lie but when you say people who go for objective criticism as a fault, it says more about you than them. Especially when you outright admit that you made major assumptions on the title alone.

[@user-hw9zo1sz4i]

@@theworstcatholic7247 I don't think that the automatic dislike for the video was from the "objective criticism" part of the title. When I clicked on the video, I automatically tensed up, expecting to hear one of those "oh this movie only got applauded because of SJWs there's no racial oppression in America snowflakes no white people get these privileges" takes. I was very, very relieved it wasn't that. It is important to watch videos before making a judgement, of course, but idk man some titles just provoke a fight or flight response. Like, the subject of minorities being used as token symbols of ⭐wokeness⭐ is really valid and serious. But sometimes the line between "I hate that this minority group is used as a token sign of the filmmakers' wokeness" and "I hate that this minority group is existing all up in my face and getting praise for it" gets blurred, and idk man, I'm just really tense about it

[@quinnmartin4236]

"Don't throw pearls to the pigs; don't give to dogs what is sacred. Otherwise they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces."

[@RanMouri82]

The political BS you described is the very reason I don't watch the Oscars. It demeans filmmakers and treats minorities as so many checkmarks on a virtue to-do list.

[@whitleypedia]

The thing that's so stupid about when Hollywood gets into identity politics is they keep attacking a entertainment establishment that is, well ... them. Middle, Trump-voting America has exactly zero influence on America's cultural landscape.

[@mikehunt69981]

@@whitleypedia exactly. This country has been making progress on race relations for decades, but outside forces who seek to destroy us have infected our institutions and spread propaganda that diminishes and even reverses that progress.

[@whitleypedia]

@@mikehunt69981 Amen. The forces that used to be pushing for racial unity have now made that possible.

[@TickleMeElmo55]

@@whitleypedia And Middle, Trump-voting section of America should have influence on the cultural landscape.

[@thestoryteller2014]

@@TickleMeElmo55 they WOULD if they were not so hell bent on discrimination and hate. They bring nothing to the cultural table. Hating on LGBTQ, pushing back against ANY protest for equality only moves the culture barometer so far. If the right wants a seat at the cultural table, they need to find something NOT hate filled to bring to the potluck.

[@HPGIRL1109]

see I'm going into film and am also a woman, and if I got nominated or won a big award, I would be devastated if I won because of my gender. I think it's incredibly unfair to the people behind the movies to choose nominees and winners based on these things, both for the winners and the losers.

[@Daniel_Soto]

Exactly, I would feel the same if I won something just because I'm part of a minority.

[@viddork]

But how would you ever know?

[@HPGIRL1109]

@@viddork I guess it'd be hard to know for sure, but there's instances like those mentioned in the video where it really seems like that's the case, and that would suck. my point still stands that choosing nominees and winners like that isn't fair for anyone.

[@viddork]

@@HPGIRL1109 I hope you don't think I was arguing against your point, since I definitely do agree with you. The big problem is, at this point, with the issue having ever been brought up, even if there was no hint of you having been chosen because of your gender, you could still be left wondering if that was even part of the reason you won. And that really sucks. Anyway, let's hope that some day you have to face that situation yourself (i.e. get nominated for an award).

[@HPGIRL1109]

@@viddork don't worry dude, I gotcha. and thanks. :)

[@hbrano1]

"Blade" is a Marvel movie.

[@DPAE-xc4ph]

It's not an MCU movie, though. The MCU started in 2008 with 'Iron Man'.

[@agravery223]

@@DPAE-xc4ph but it paved the way for studios to put real money out for "superhero films".

[@rickywilcoxson6933]

Damn Cool 1# too.

[@khalilrahme5227]

To add to the original comment. Blade was the first popular superhero marvel movie, after the original superman and batman movies

[@cocoduck7745]

Blade will always have a spot in my heart, I had good expectations from black panther but it was soo average that I forgot about it the next day.

[@guitarjag1]

That quote by Patty Jenkins talking about James Cameron "Not getting" why Wonder Woman is great and not supporting powerful women is pretty ironic considering, oh, I don't know, Terminator and Terminator 2 where the protagonist is a woman who goes beyond what she knew she had in her to become by the second movie one of the strongest female characters (set in a semi-realistic setting, at least related to her abilities) in cinema.

[@user-mx4is4fx3c]

Patty is prone to such stupid generalisations. I mean she rejected Snyder's original Wonder woman pitch about her being a ruthless fighter in the Crimaic war because she found it to be too violent Which isn't a problem but the way she tried to justify it saying that "this isn't what female comic book fans want to see" is very wrong Like who are you to speak for all women that read comics?

[@VaporeonEnjoyer1]

@@user-mx4is4fx3c It's also incredibly stupid as the demographic of people most likely to go see her female lead comic book movie is still going to be overwhelmingly male.

[@animaxindustries]

Exactly. If it was Michael Bay or someone with a similar reputation I might understand a backlash. But its James freaking Cameron. Terminator, Aliens, Abyss, T2, True Lies, and Titanic all feature strong, female protagonists. The only of his movies that don't is Avatar. But Neytiri is a warrior alien princess. And yeah he's right. Having a traditionally attractive girl looking traditionally attractive in a popcorn flick made for mass audiences isn't anything revolutionary, apart from it being a superhero movie.

[@razkable]

remember...white women being strong do not count..it has to be a lesbian or bisexual female minority to count...their standards are stupid

[@marcdumont2275]

Alien series is another good example of that.

[@edward4840]

The Oscars was never respectable. The entire reason why it was made was so that screenwriters wouldn't unionise so Hollywood could treat them like shit, and then give them awards so they didn't feel so bad. It's always been a shit show

[@commandercaptain4664]

Where's THAT movie at?

[@austinglueck2554]

@You tuber A lot of people watch films for precisely those reasons, and I think it's a bit myopic of you to assume that a talented costume designer, or designer of any sort, wouldn't be able to provide artistic analysis despite being trained, experienced artists who almost certainly have experience analyzing numerous forms of artwork, especially film, and likely years of experience collaborating in the filmmaking process. It's not as though you get compelling and artful cinematography that advances the artistic goal of a movie from a cinematographer whose just coming in for a paycheck not thinking. It's not as though you get excellent costume design that immerses the viewer into a world and it's characters from some rube designer with no nuanced understanding of the film or it's contents. These artists you cast aside as though they hardly even know what they're doing are some of the most instrumental parts of creating a good film, and among those who are most in tune with the art they collaborate in creating as well as the filmmaking process in general, and it makes me sad that you don't see that.

[@vaughnamir.6457]

@You tuber eh, I went into Once Upon A Time In Hollywood pretty pumped for the set design. It also won the Oscar.

[@cianbroderick4145]

You tuber discounting artists because they don’t understand the art in a movie

[@ThisIsWEB]

I enjoyed Black Panther. But this video is much more focused on examining the Oscars' issues, and I think you did a great job explaining the history as well as presenting the flaws in both the academy and general public's methods of dealing with one another.

[@elephantpowerproductions]

You and I are cut from the same cloth regarding this statement pal

[@ThisIsWEB]

@@elephantpowerproductions glad to hear it this video is back in Recommendations and I never saw your reply or the heart or all the likes lol time to think about this again

[@XanderShiller]

I noticed that so many of these "controversies" result in desperate journalists looking for a story.

[@commandercaptain4664]

Or conjuring up nontroversies to sell some digital, dead paper.

[@XanderShiller]

@@commandercaptain4664 indeed

[@wyrlismike]

In highschool for career day a woman who was in the academy and voted in the awards came to talk to us. She straight up told us she votes for whoever and doesn't even watch all the movies. It was always a popularity contest. We have seen the awards as something it never was.

[@afterthesmash]

Back in the day, the Oscars reliably defined the water cooler conversation the day afterward. Much of that conversation was always about how the Oscars are full of shite. _Always._ But now we don't even want it to define the water cooler conversation, so it's dead, Jim.

[@ewill312]

after watching your analysis of the game of thrones Tyrion character arc, I had to search your channel to see if you had other videos. Love the content, man! Very detailed and articulated points. I can't wait for the next video

[@blancaescobar5895]

Dude your vídeos have quality I didn't even realize that you were relatively new. I will subscribe Saludos desde México

[@macruz8503]

Bell Matthew: Dam somebody has a stick up their ass!? Go ahead and keep listening to your Disney music and chill out lol.

[@eduardopantoja9115]

@@Bell_Matt Dude wtf is wrong with you

[@diegotobaski9801]

When it comes to solo supes Marvel movies, Winter Soldier sits at the top. On the overall though, Infinity War is king.

[@LordMalice6d9]

Infinity War had an awful plot and an awful villain motivation and goal. The movie is saved only by its characters and its scope and ambition. Terrible or lazy plots and stories in movies has become more and more common.

[@leyenda6149]

My fav MCU films are IM1, Cap2, TIH, & AIW. All the other ones are pretty forgettable

[@woopi8003]

@@LordMalice6d9 How did Thanos have an "awful villain motivation and goal?" It didn't make logical sense, but that was the point, he's the Mad Titan for a reason. He had a plan that _might_ have worked on _his_ planet, but everyone dismissed it because they're not psychopaths, and instead of fixing the problem with another plan they ignored the problem and the planet collapsed. Thanos, desperate to prove that he could have saved the planet but with no-one to prove it to, enacted his plan on a universal scale, without considering that it both wouldn't work on other planets and that there would be much better plans. He simply refused to fathom the idea that he was wrong, after all, he's "the only one who knows" how to save the universe. He gave up everything to try to prove to himself that he was right, and eventually convinced himself that he was.

[@mikehunt69981]

@@woopi8003 I like Thanos' motivations in the comics better

[@commandercaptain4664]

Make mine the Cap trilogy, then the Avengers films, then everything else ranges from good to meh.

[@happymaskedguy1943]

This isn't just happening in film. Books, music, poetry - pretty much everything in the realms of the creative arts.

[@bibaolaitan5189]

👏👏👏...

[@Saktoth]

The Oscars have never been objective, it's all industry politics and marketing strategy. But the same is true of critics: They are not and have never been objective. Whether they find a work resonated with them or found a performance emotionally moving is down to their own experiences and biases. Is it possible to objectively judge certain aspects of a film, but they have never been primarily what informs film criticism.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Louder, Oscar, Louder!!!

[@KingOfMadCows]

Yeah,the economics of the Oscars are important. Studios can devote up to $10 million for an Oscar campaign. And in return, Oscar winning films earn a lot more by getting better syndication and streaming deals, and higher DVD sales and rentals. The return on investment is around 7 to 10 fold.

[@Crawleyman]

2 years later and this video is still relevant. Great video!

[@od3910]

I think you've missed a loop here. Films created by minorities are less likely to have funding or marketing for it. So it's harder in the first place to get these things set up due yo how Hollywood works. So telling people "just make your own movie" is at best dishonest. This has been getting better, but just like most issues it's getting better because people said something about it. Letting studios know that these films are profitable. Cause that's the bottom line. In any case the Oscars is kinda trash. Especially if you are an animation fan. It's not a genre it's a medium! I do get the controversy take. Its annoying when studios use real issues to excuse or sell their movie. But then you look at how people reacted to parasite winning (subjectively one of my favourite movies). They lost their minds!

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Yeah in retrospect I didn't articulate myself well. I actually completely agree with you in the sense that when I said "just make your own movies", I was speaking to those high up in the industry who have the funds and means to do so, to fund these projects, but instead they sit on their heels and just tout diversity. Especially when it comes to studios. How Disney for example could tout so much "female representation" and "diversity" for the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy... and then consider ONLY white dudes for directing was... telling.

[@ElementVoidX]

@@MacabreStorytelling not to mention their anti-capitalist messages too, when that is the sole reason Disney is where they are today, no one wants to be told to stop being a liar, if the person telling you that is a compulsive liar, if you don't practice what you preach then I will simply ignore you, and most people will too.

[@hali_55]

This was me. When Black Panther showed up in Civil War, he seemed so cool and I couldn’t wait to see the movie. Then all of a sudden the movie became so politicised. Because of the hype surrounding the movie, I was still retry excited, but walked into the movie knowing that there may be a huge political factor in the plot of the movie (which I absolutely hate in superhero movies). I came out feeling a bit disappointed with the movie, it was good, but wasn’t as great as I hoped t would be. It also wasn’t as political as I thought t was going to be, which made it seem like the entire marketing behind the movie was just to get more people to watch it. I watched it 2 more times after that, and now I find that I can’t watch it anymore, except for a few scenes I really enjoyed. So when it was nominated for Best Picture, I immediately knew it was because the movie had a mostly black cast and was a bout an African superhero. I was also pretty mad because if any superhero movie deserved to be nominated, t was Infinity War. That movie packed twice the action and emotion. You really felt like this was a fight for the character’s lives and you actually cared because these are characters that we’ve watched for 10 years. But no one could criticise black panther or say that Infinity War deserved it better because you’d be labelled “racist” or something. I could get away with it because I’m black, but people would still argue with me.

[@dargondude2375]

@i Draw Sure...politics in movies are such a bad thing... Honestly its all in the execution

[@erinbailey8792]

@Halima Thank you. You're so right. It's still bothers me. That such mediocre film got a nomination just because of black characters and cast and IW, one of the best movie of decade, didn't.

[@The80sWolf_]

I was not a fan of civil war, but his character is without question the best in it, and stood out among the rest of the hero characters

[@eduardopantoja9115]

I'm kinda curious in what you expected when you heard that the film would be political because you seem disappointed that it wasn't political.

[@ColdHawk]

I enjoy watching Hollywood and the associated industries steadily making themselves irrelevant.

[@notmisterepicface4308]

I stopped caring about reviews’ objectivity in all forms of media because I knew right out of highschool that people get pissed off at the slightest thing. If you like a movie, don’t let anybody tell you to not like it. It’s not their job to tell you you’re wrong for enjoying what you enjoy (unless it’s Cuties, Netflix shat the bed that time)

[@kostajovanovic3711]

There's no objectivity...

[@lordcavalier9688]

There is objectivity, enjoyment is subjective, but things like structure coherence art direction and acting are all objective. You can enjoy the room, but in no way can say it’s an objectively good film. Just like how you can enjoy black panther, but even compared to the objective tankards of the MCU they are low tier. Not the worst, but not the best either.

[@rontheron4807]

The most frustrating part of this whole debacle is it isn't lead by actual activists but, as you mentioned it, by people of the industry who are making the Oscars a scapegoat where all discrimination issues are tackled only at the level of those at the very top while the minorities being exploited behind the scenes never get a chance to call out the actual systemic issues. No one wins in this least of all minorities and worst of all it turns both sides of the debate against each other through misunderstandings of where they stand instead of criticizing the real instigators. Every time I talk equal rights online I'm jumped on by random people assuming if I'm involved in activism I must be a defender of the all female ghostbusters or the new charlie's angels or some shit and the fact that the these situations have been so misrepresented that people actually genuinely think anyone anti racism, misogyny, etc is in favour of this pandering hypocritical bs means that they're winning

[@alexlubinski7795]

Fifteen years ago no one would be talking about tokenism and virtue signaling in the same speeches and movies because we've been dumbed down by this idea of "objectivism" which is also a way of politicising the discourse. I agree with your point about critique not being about the movies anymore which is a double-edged sword but also let's not pretend that Oscars were ever about "objective and unbiased opinions". I think that inclusion of PoC in voting comitees is important as well as "all-white Oscars" thing tells a grim story about the blockbuster industry - Oscars are always so Holywood-oriented that they are means of propaganda themselves. They always project an image of what a good movie is like and not every Oscar-winning movie deserves its praise. These are the some of the most privileged people in the entire world and almost every effort they make at tackling global issues dumbs down to a certain lifestyle aesthetic. It's no different with gender and racial diversity. This situation was inevitable and let's not pretend that Oscars are about more than they actually are.

[@daniellaniganohara2456]

This comment is golden. "Objectiveness" with art is always something that doesn't make much sense to me, as there really isn't anything that you could argue is "objectively" the best. That's what's interesting about art in the first place. I will say though, that it's hard to not bring up politics when art and politics go hand and hand in a lot of cases

[@alexlubinski7795]

@@daniellaniganohara2456 IMO the "non-political" art in times of great sociopolitical crises is political as well as it preserves the status quo and is violently silent about the issues that should especially concern sensitive and receptive individuals that artists presumably are.

[@daniellaniganohara2456]

@@alexlubinski7795 you hit the nail on the head, that's exactly what it is

[@porassrivastava8242]

@@alexlubinski7795 art is political by nature

[@ZeroKitsune]

@@alexlubinski7795 You people are absolutely horrifying in your totalitarianism...

[@c.t.1893]

I enjoyed Black Panther personally. But, beyond being an average movie really, and a bit of a weaker MCU movie (Though not Iron Man 3 or Thor: The Dark World bad) it was still alright. Good themes, decent cast, some seemingly long and boring scenes that went on too long with some iffy special affects at times. Looking forward to the sequel, though I'm super sad that Chadwick Boseman won't be reprising his role. Rest in peace. But it wasn't a perfect movie. Though all opinions are subjective. Some might love it, some might not.

[@larrysmithjr7492]

It annoyed me when it was nominated. There were super hero movies like Dark Knight and Logan that were great movies not just great super hero movies but didn't get nominated. Those two movies feel like films while BP just felt like MARVEL movie #234. It just felt avg with a good performance by Michael B Jordan but he honestly wasn't Oscar worthy. I felt pandered to by the fact BP was nominated.

[@hebanker3372]

The Dark Knight won two academy awards.

[@shawklan27]

Word

[@diegotobaski9801]

@@hebanker3372 it wasn't nominated for best picture though, with even Hollywood critics seemingly puzzled.

[@hebanker3372]

@@diegotobaski9801 You're right,but I'm under the impression that the original post is about oscars in general,not best picture particularly.

[@GimmieTheJimmie]

There never was any "Objective" film criticism.

[@thelandlockedkaiju4820]

I was gonna say the same. This channel has had some great content so I’m holding back my initial response of “oh no, this is a MauLer-style video”. Objective film critique surrounding the Oscars in particular is a myth, it’s always been about buying and advertising your way to a win rather than any somehow-objectively-measured merits. I mean there’s a reason why “Oscar bait” movies are known and tend to either verge on critical of society while ultimately not being too uncomfortable (like how Crash won while Sorry To Bother You gets overlooked), or are otherwise movies about making movies and about how important art and movie-makers are. Anyway I’m sure the actual content is more measured than it seems at first glance. I just flashed back to my first semester in media studies when I thought “objective analysis” was an actual thing that could be accomplished.

[@reynaldomezapuerto47]

Right, we all use our subjective opinion.

[@_koschwarz]

Oh jeez, don't pretend you don't get the point of this video.

[@Reggie1408]

"Objective film criticism" is a right-wing dog whistle by now.

[@texasdes142]

@Matt Ruth it was never based on any of that stuff and, for the most part, still isn't. Almost all the movies that get nominated and win are won through campaigning. Buying the judges gifts and trips and showing exclusive content, etc. You can look back at the history of the oscsrs and MOST major awards, like the Grammys, Emmys, etc. and you'll find that this is the same type of behavior that has been prevalent for decades and is nothing new. I wouldn't even say that BP won due to what you like to call "sjw" reasons, everyone here has conveniently forgotten that this movie was the top grossing marvel movie that had ever been released and made over a billion dollars and was literally shown in countries where they haven't shown American movies in decades. The movie was an international phenomenon and it's easy to infer that the oscars weren't going to ignore the biggest movie, BY FAR, of the year. The fact that the biggest movie happened to be full of black people was just a plus, but it wasn't the reason the movie won. Also, it 100 percent deserved all the Oscars it got in every technical category. Not to mention, worse movies have won best picture, so there's really no reason to be upset.

[@lincolnduke]

If only Natalie Portman knew a film producer who would be able to make female directed films. Not Natalie Portman though, her production company has made 17 films with only one female director: Natalie Portman.

[@abdulkhafidsulaymaan]

in less than 2 minutes I already agree with you completely

[@thatguy3731]

For me, the main theme of Black Panther is about wrestling with decisions/ mistakes of past generations. On this, I think they executed better than any other Marvel film that comes to mind. T’Challa begins as a passive character, trying to live up to a legacy, and ends actively charting a different path for Wakanda. The “You were wrong!” Scene still gives me goosebumps. I thinks it hits different now that I’m a man and my own father has died. I think about how to honor his legacy and also chart my own path.

[@cynicalleviathan3305]

Greenbook is one of the blandest and stupidist best pic wins I've ever seen.

[@Qwerty-jy9mj]

There was also Crash

[@Mixu.]

I saw it without knowing anything about it beforehand and honestly thought it was one of the better movies I'd seen in a while. Possibly influenced by how hard it was to find non-comicbook-movies at one point.

[@cynicalleviathan3305]

@@Mixu. I thought it was a very basic generic 5/10 oscar bait film when I watched it but I can't remember enough of it right now to argue its quality. Besides that I thought almost all the 2018 best pic noms I saw were mostly bland except for Roma and The Favourite,and that baffled me how the academy thought greenbook was better than those two films. Well I guess the oscars are extremely stupid. Also there are quite a few non comic book films in a year on average that are pretty great,its just that most of them aren't mainstream.

[@Levi_52_336]

I liked Greenbook; it wasn't breathe taking, but it was pretty good.

[@khalidamajoud4114]

@@Qwerty-jy9mj Oh yes!

[@toade1583]

I'm sorry, but it's kinda ironic you mentioned 'do the right thing' when it was never nominated for the Oscars as well as 'Us' and many other quality black films getting repeatedly snubbed at the Oscars. Moreover, it is pretty hard to measure objectivity when it comes to art. How do you know Black Panther objectively didn't deserve to be nominated? it had some of the best sound design if any movie of that year, as well as some of the best costume design, moreover, the characters were very fleshed out and it portrays its message of anti-isolationism very using the dichotomy between Tchalla and Killmonger and finding a balance between them. Killmonger is the foil that, while wrong, teaches Tchalla that maybe tradition and keeping Wakanda secret isn't exactly the right thing to do. Your video was great, but it's kind of contradictory to say you don't want certain movies to be labelled as "only got nominated because they had x minority" while doing that same thing. For example, saying the The Hate U Give critic was "scared" of criticizing it because it was a Minority movie wasn't true, the writer was just acknowledged that when films like that don't do well, it hurts other films starring minorities which is fairly accurate, they wrote an entire article criticizing the movie's handling of the book's source material so it was clear they weren't scared of going against "PC culture", they just acknowledged how the industry works.

[@joth6745]

You should talk to MauLer about objective analysis, I’d pay to see that

[@zimmerman1031]

Except Mauler is slow with making content, he's more focused on the easy way out with podcasts, and he's a bit high on the smell of his own farts. I like some of his content, but he can become quite insufferable.

[@Reggie1408]

It is gonna be a 12 hour video series!

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Uh, no. Mauler is trash compare to this channel.

[@cobra8888]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 I don’t watch Mauler, so can you tell me what makes him less than this channel?

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@cobra8888 He's an extremely annoying and nitpicky critic that makes way too long videos. In my opinion, at least.

[@CaKoMi]

Great nuanced review! I agree that objective film criticism is getting overtaken by political agendas. But I don't think people are less objective than they used to be. A lot of old reviews cited moral concerns with movie content and focused on their moral lessons rather than the overall quality of their stories (ex: Roger Ebert and Clockwork Orange). I think the big difference is that this lack of objectivity is less focused on monocultural societal morals and more about minority representation/liberal social justice issues. So the skew of subjectivity is different, but I don't think it's any less objective than it used to be.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Excellent point! I am actually talking about these same topics in my Watchmen video and will take this into account! Thank you.

[@CaKoMi]

Macabre Storytelling Woah thanks for responding! Looking forward to seeing the video :)

[@kromkindkaroo]

Totally agree with your comment and watching this review thought about the same thing. The issue isn't the problem as much as the pandering method of Hollywood. Good point! Also, like the author of this review, I agree that the issue isn't about forced nominations, as this is a corporatist and Western liberal answer to inclusion, rather a focus should be on ways Hollywood can empower minority and women directors, actors/actresses, producers and stories to be on par with current award winning high grossing or quality films.

[@thatRyzzle]

THIS IS WHY I SUBSCRIBED TO YOUR CHANNEL. This articulate, well thought out, and seemingly thoroughly researched calling out of Hollywood's bullshit, in essay form, narrated in an entertaining and calm manner, is so … satisfying for me to watch, for lack of a better word. Thank you for this.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

❤️

[@roxgirl44]

Your videos are really well done! Can't wait for more to come!

[@oblivionnow92]

Your 100% right about Toni Collette deserving best actress that year.

[@MrFoofarew]

How can you objectively look at something that’s subjective.

[@n3rds3y3vi3w]

by trying

[@MrFoofarew]

@@knowledgeablebro6970 Maybe not. But a movie is art, and art is subjective. I agree with the guy's points btw.

[@silversurfer6360]

By beign detached to it ... you can not like something but say " this and that i liked didnt like " ....

[@vaughnamir.6457]

The solution IMO: make great, diverse films - WITHOUT tokenism, or tugging at people's heart strings. Most movies about middle/lower class POC represent them as victims to the system (which may be true). But the reality is that WE ALL play the villain in someone's story. Instead of making a movie saying, "White people are bad and they abuse their privilege", make a movie that says "White people are bad and they abuse their privilege, but Black/Latino/Asian people are just as bad, too. If the roles were reversed, the POC would be just as bad."

[@charliehustle3876]

That’s more or less what Crash is and it won best picture to the disdain of many. And while I understand the point, it sounds an awful lot like trying not to make White people feel bad about how the system they created impacts people. Almost like a non-Jewish German writer/director making a movie about how if a Jewish person was given the same power as Hitler they’d do the same thing.

[@vaughnamir.6457]

​@@charliehustle3876 Crash was corny as hell though. It was a blandly executed film that feigned societal awareness, using tired themes that Hollywood approves of. We both acknowledge that White people hold more financial and societal power over other races. But from a narrative stance, it's boring to try and make them feel bad about it all the time. Many White people DON'T care about how their system impacts people. I think modern film would be more interesting - and spark more discussion - if those kinds of people were reflected on screen without the cliche White guilt thrown in. I understand your Hitler ideology. I still think in terms of storytelling and making interesting films, such an ideology should be explored. It's not politically correct to do so. It's unfortunate that we've gotten to a point where a movie about race has to be politically correct. That's not even reflective of real life. Look forward to your response, you got my mind going lol

[@charliehustle3876]

@@vaughnamir.6457 I agree that the way Hollywood chooses to portray race/social issues is misguided and cliched. I mean Green Book won best picture just 2 years ago. And while some White people don’t feel bad (that I also agree), most White people don’t want to feel bad so they deflect and rationalize. Black people live with racism everyday and are well aware of how it actually is, white people do not. So when we try to approach racism from a different angle it makes sense and is usually informed. When White people do it it is to absolve themselves of any guilt they might feel due to societal pressure. Many of @MacabreStorytelling points reflected this. For example his Selma point.

[@Sleepy_Dandelion]

I think a good example is Parasite, since it is a masterpiece (at least imo) and totally deserved to win. Not because it's a Korean film, but because it is a fantastic film.

[@kaidusdream2659]

I agree. I feel like a lot of movies with “diverse” protagonists pander to us a lot. A movie I think that handles a minority protagonist well is Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. Miles is a black/Latino kid. They show what his culture is like at the beginning of the movie. How that sets him apart from Peter Parker. But they don’t dwell on it

[@auliamate]

Black Panther IS NOT worthy of an Oscar. The story needs more depth, and Klaw’s death SUCKED, as well as Killmonger’s needless slaughter of his girlfriend WHO SAVED HIM. The end was good enough, and the costume and set design is really really nicely done, but... -why was Martin Freeman is this movie at all? He’s literally irrelevant to the plot -T’Challa and Okoye used to date, but nothing really came of it, but a few passing mentions -Erik Killmonger was a good character, but... what T’Chaka did to his brother was really out of character to what we saw in Civil War when he died... like completely different people. Also, he came out of nowhere -FINALLY, why does Erik have a girl? She’s irrelevant, dies pretty soon and, is coming out of nowhere. Why is she here? Sure, she works with Klaw, but that and the fact she’s was with Erik before he killed her *needlessly* , are her only personality traits. The movie is still a 8/10, but these plot holes still make me *reeeeeeeeeeeeee* in annoyance. Now, thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Edit: I’m black, and I saw this with my family, who is also completely black, on multiple occasions in theatres, and on Canadian Netflix. This is unbiased as I’ve haven’t watched since early 2020. Edit 2: I’m so good a reviewing stuff, I should do it more NGL... Edit 3: typo

[@aim-9sidewinder550]

kinda shitty how people need to clarify their black to make their point stand out.

[@texasdes142]

The reasons listed don't justify the movie not winning any of the Oscars it got. It more so just shows your lack of understanding in the film itself (which maybe other people didn't understand either) but many worse movies have won and will win Oscars so it's strange that the buck only stops with BP. Also, I'm black and all of us black folks in the comments should be able to understand what's happening since we all understand to identify ourselves as black when talking about the film. If you're black, you should see what's going on.

[@aim-9sidewinder550]

​@@texasdes142 Maybe the idea is that, people don't understand why its bad and won an oscar for it. So, for example. We knowing killing a guy over a candy is bad, but just why? Why would you kill someone over a lolipop. Theres no context, so we the audience have to figure it out ourselves. Now, do me a favor and list reasons why the film won an oscar because you seem to be the only enstein here of understanding.

[@texasdes142]

@@aim-9sidewinder550 first off, if you're going to call someone an Einstein, spell the name right 😂 Secondly, the movie won oscars for costume design, prouction design and original score. The costumes were researched and executed flawlessly and were also awarded the industry award, meaning the costume designers union (idk the name) FULL of working professionals and legends in the field also believed that to be the best. Same with production design. Marvel also gets a lot of recognition for their score work, I believe other marvel movies have been awarded for that as well, not to mention they made an entire original album that topped the charts and won other awards. Oh and one more thing, your belief that the movie is bad isn't an objective study of the movie. In fact, reviews of movies with never be objective bc different people like different things. There are movies that win oscars that you've never seen so are they not deserving of awards bc you haven't seen them? Should every movie you dislike be stripped of their awards? See how silly that is?

[@aim-9sidewinder550]

@@texasdes142 The movie (also) won Best screen picture to be precise. Which it shouldn't have because what the guy listed. The movie had too many flaws and really bad plot points and execution. This does not mean the music or costume are bad, but I do think the costume are cheap. And most of their music are not original. So how does a film have so many flaws but won best film? According to you, the only guy to understand this movie, how does this movie win a best film and not best score, or best music, because that doesn't define the best film because we know if it did, transformers would won each year. The difference between your second statement is, I've actually watched black panther 3 times. If I never seen a movie and they win an oscar, I'm not automatically gonna assume it shouldn't win an oscar. I've never watched parasite, but that movie won best picture. I've never seen moonlight and it won best picture, but I'm not saying it shouldn't because I've never seen it.

[@thestoryteller2014]

A nuanced take on a very complicated culturally insane issue. I like it.

[@The_Chosen_Heretic]

It’s complicated to me. Like, I’d like to see more inclusivity but I also want to see good movies, and while many ethnic, sexual, and gender minorities don’t always get their chances to shine because S o C i E t Y, I do also think that a fixation on Id Pol and surface level diversity is killing nuance. Keep in mind that I myself am Black, Bi, mildly autistic, and politically left leaning, but I care more for the content of films as opposed to their virtue signalling.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

For me it simply starts in the studios. Giving different people new opportunities will no doubt lead to diversity as opposed to the same four studios using the same four white director dudes and trying to make diverse films in a very in the nose and pandering way.

[@FenixReZ]

I agree with Macabre! Good content comes from the ground up, in the studio. Being open to new talent without focusing a person’s appearance is the key to discovering quality work! Like Spider-verse said anyone can wear the mask. Glad to hear someone who is left leaning can take in Mac was trying to say ;)

[@JosesAmazingWorlds]

But you have answered your own question. You, and I, and most everyone, just want to see good stories, with good characters. We all loved Sigourney Weaver in Alien, Morgan Freeman in Shawshank or the cast in Orange is the New Black or Slumdog Millionaire. It is a simple concept that seems hard to understand. Furthermore, outside of specific movies like Philadelphia or Milk, a character’s sexuality serves no point to the story. IMHO.

[@CharleneOrtizTraining]

Perfectly said. I'm a conservative, but I support the rights of a gay couple to marry and I do believe strongly that racism exists in the police force because my husband has experienced it. I'm also agnostic and I think religion can be incredibly destructive. Just because we lean one way politically doesn't mean we fit all the stereotypes associated with that political group.

[@treborkroy5280]

Love have you have to give yourself a descriptor literally like how we DON'T want identity politics doing in media. Yeesh

[@DendyJungle]

At the end of the day, it’s the oscars. Just some awards show, it only has the importance you give it

[@jada90]

Blank panther was not a good movie. It just wasn't. It was a decent pass as another superhero film. That's it. It doesn't deserve the praise it gets. We can love it for what it did for black actors, but that's it. Don't make it more than it is

[@angeldelmito]

I disagree, I still think it’s one of the best movies in the superhero genre out there. And it did deserve all the cultural praise it got. There’s no other mainstream superhero film like Black Panther and certainly not one that made off well with both audiences and critics alike. People can disagree on whether or not the movie was enjoyable in their eyes, but to downplay its significance and say things like “don’t make it more than what it is” is suspect...

[@erinbailey8792]

It did nothing for black actors. And the unfairness of including this mediocre film in such a prestigious nomination for no reason, rather then skin colour, even icreased the hateness of white people. And it got them the point. Now they always can refer to this unbelievably ridiculous case and would be right. Diversity should not reach the bounds of absurdity, in this case it has reached and crossed them way too much.

[@currentparadise8821]

@@erinbailey8792 It did nothing for black actors? Black Panther gave a pretty successful career to a lot of the actors and actresses in the film, many of them people probably didn’t even know who they were until Black Panther. Why are you downplaying it’s success bc your favorite marvel movie didn’t win. The awards it won it deserved. It’s funny though bc many people will claim it only won bc of diversity but then site that Infinity war should have won because of “better” diversity lol. Let’s be honest all marvel movies are the same. The narrative is the same for all of them. They all follow the same formula. Honestly Infinity war was no different. I found Infinity war to be boring, Thanos motives are a bit inconsistent, and it didn’t really tell its own story. You can’t really watch infinity war and know what’s completely going on without the help of the other mcu films. But people enjoy it for the same reasons they enjoy Black Panther...Epic-ness. Seeing all the established super heroes fight a bad guy together. People enjoy Black Panther for its cultural significance, seeing a fantasy world that pays respect to the heritage of African Americans and Africans. Both films have their positives and negatives and neither should be downplayed just to lift up the other. I personally had more fun with Black Panther. But now that I think about it for me both movies suffer the same problem...weak story. I guess some would call out the CGI in Black Panther but honestly they kinda were pretty similar to me. So no, to say that it only one bc black people is unfair, considering most movies have only one the oscars for the sheer fact of skin color for decades. I mean for the longest time it was only old white people who could even when an Oscar regardless of talent. So that’s a bit hypocritical. Diversity isn’t reaching an absurd amount. It’s just people are trying very hard to make it as though diversity is the problem. The movie Invictus won awards, was that because of mostly black people or did critics recognize talent where they saw it. If your gripe against the movie boils down to I hate it Bc this movie didn’t win is very petty.

[@mattchensan]

I feel like for this to really work, one would have to make an argument that objective criticism for art has ever existed and if the oscars itself was ever apolitical. The oscars, at its core, has never quite been about having an objective opinion about movies, but rather the opinion of the Hollywood establishment. It's political in of itself to favor "high class" movies like drama and to shun "low brow" movies like comic book movies. I don't see how that is less political to recognize movies that are not "oscar bait" then it is to attempt to recognize movies created by non-white actors. Both are political and in a lot of ways, are likely more interconnected than in a cursory look. There is also the structural component as well. A recent example is in the Golden Globes where Minari was nominated for the best foreign-language film and not best picture because it was more than 50% in Korean but the film also told a story about Immigration to America, a story that's about as American and apple pie. This comes in stark contrast to Inglorious Basterds, which despite not reaching that over 50% in English mark (only being 30% in English) was nominated for best picture. With a rule like that being broken at the whims of the Golden Globes, the reasoning being that Inglorious Basterds was allowed to compete in Best Picture to make room for Foreign Films, how subjective is the deliberation is being done behind closed doors? Minari was a pretty public controversy, what kind of unspoken rules does the Hollywood establishment have and had that wasn't public? There's also the problem if you do not consider politics at all with criticism. What should one feel about the 1915 Birth of a Nation, which is arguably one of the most innovative movies of all time, how would such an overtly racist movie that partially inspired the growth of the KKK be considered if it were made today? Should the Academy consider it or not? How about Mickey Rooney's performance as I.Y. Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany's? Impressive, sure, but it's a horribly racist character that defined a generation of especially racist depictions of Asians in Hollywood. I think the larger question that should be asked is "what is the right mix of political and objective (or as close as you can get to it) criticism in the oscars?". What is fair criticism?

[@mikaelblakwater3008]

Good points. My main question is Why is it that films with black casts are so viciously scrutinized if they succeed. Yet the same people often ignore the constant political influence of Hollywood when it is there politics being promoted. Do people know how many films and TV Shows past and present that have an all white cast that no one speaks on... yet if a film features an all Black casts it is now some how overtly political and needs to be viewed under a microscope...Example...Rian Johnson butchered his black lead in Star Wars, then turned around and made a movie with an all white cast in Knives Out...suspect sure yet no body complained... Hollywood ignored this and all the people complaining about black casts or the politics in films did not say anything. The Oscar's never have been about measuring a film for its merit, maybe in theory, but in practice, the Oscar's have always been a popularity contest amongst the Hollywood elite. It feels hypocritical to hear people complain about "diversity" as a reason for recieving awards ignoring Every other nonsensical reason that is often used for the same purpose.

[@tendamulovhedzi6237]

The most sober minded comment I have read in these comments. I don’t think one can divorce politics from art as the one has historically always informed the other. This video largely ignores this reality.

[@tendamulovhedzi6237]

@@mikaelblakwater3008 incredibly well put

[@redbenada798]

One of the most sane comments on this video

[@KissMyConverseFool]

The oscars have never used any solid metric about what is really "the best," though. Look me in the eye and tell me alien is a worse movie than Kramer vs Kramer or Breaking Away? But genre movies only got effects awards in that era.

[@joejitsu034]

Good point 👍

[@johnmarc1986]

Kramer vs Kramer is a good film but not at the level of Alien. Shakespeare in Love, The English Patient and Gandhi also come to mind. The Oscars have always been pretty irrelevant.

[@diegowushu]

I initially didn't watch any of the Marvel movies because it kinda bores me, I decided to give them a go when Endgame came out. From the discourse I expected BP to be an absolute masterpiece and what I got was... another generic superhero movie. Maybe it's because I'm not american, but how that profoundly mediocre movie got so many good reviews was mind blowing.

[@chaseguap]

As a black man objectively I can say the movie was ok but the significance of having a black superhero is major. Growing up I didn’t have superheroes in media that looked like me other than blade so knowing that this can influence the next generation of young black kids to believe that they can be hero’s is dope, so I supported it in hopes that Hollywood will make more

[@trevorthornley8835]

You never saw the blade trilogy or spawn?

[@DutchKidRanger]

SUPAHEROOOO STATIC SHOCK and Storm from XMen

[@chaseguap]

@@trevorthornley8835 I did but look at how long the gap is from those movies and every couple of months we get a new white superhero movie

[@XanderShiller]

One reason the Oscars were a "monopoly" is because they underestimated the existence of... Netflix

[@doctordungus7774]

Please keep making videos.

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Studios don't think black literature exists that would be entertaining to everyone, so they engage in tokenism. The Dark Thirty has several stories that could be made into small films, Imaro could be an awesome Conan-style story.

[@lavellelee5734]

Aye do tell fam. I haven't heard about these, what are those?

[@paulbolin7513]

This same problem is occurring in music as well. And the general public lacks the education to recognize it. It’s not to say that an all so called “black” film can not be excellent because there are plenty you can name. Just not this particular one.

[@MichelleCFunk]

This is almost a compelling analysis but it glosses over the complexities of film's relationship with politics and imagines the Academy as somehow a previously apolitical organization which either misunderstands the Oscars or misunderstands what constitutes the "political". Using such facile language as "outrage culture" and "virtue signaling" belies the underlying bias here too. Sometimes the notion of "objectivity" is just a smokescreen for "my views should be default and any deviation is biased or political."

[@SHiTJuFro743]

I would almost agree with you, but this video, though using a few terms from a rather played-out glossary, should not be dismissed wholesale. It ought not be confused as yet another one of those frustrated, rather pathetic, “liberalism has ruined my pop culture😡” videos. The points and references he makes are valid. Black Panther’s content was generic Disney product, as artistically middle-of-the-road as a ham sandwich on white bread. The primarily black cast (of which can be found in MANY superior films) was the core of its marketing, thus becoming the only thing about it ever discussed for more than a single draw of breath. Obviously the Oscars have historically been an award show used to ego boost and self-fellate Hollywood, with plenty of misgivings and questionable decions made over the course of the last century. However, it isn’t unfair to point out the obvious capitulation to ridiculous, identity-based (rather than merit-based) award nominations. I am a brown person, (I detest the term “POC”) and as politically blue as it gets, but I’m honest enough to acknowledge that Black Panther had no business being nominated for Best Picture. Pretty cut and dry case of over-compensation on the Academy’s behalf.

[@SHiTJuFro743]

*decisions

[@MichelleCFunk]

@@SHiTJuFro743 Much agreed, I think the Academy's move from completely overlooking nonwhite productions to accepting only a certain class of productions that serve their own interests without actually challenging the status quo of the film industry (or society as a whole) -- and Black Panther as you mention fits squarely into that. Plus, the whole thing is basically pay to play anyhow. See also, the difference between academy recognition of BlackKKlansman and Sorry To Bother You.

[@chengliu872]

One major issue is that objective journalism itself is mostly dead. Most journalists today would be better described as activists.

[@lilchinesekidchen]

i mean no artistic criticism is objective. anyone who thinks critique and interpretation of art can be objective it is is fooling themselves into thinking they have a “universal” perspective. the oscars aren’t an “objective” rating of films, they are a Hollywood industry standard rating of films, which isn’t the only standard of filmmaking that exists in the world

[@BigSleepyOx]

Black Panther deserved the awards it won, which were costume design, production design, and score. It was also nominated for song, sound editing, and sound mixing. Nobody really has a beef with the above wins and nominaions, even those that despise the film didn't much push back on those. Now as for the Best Picture nomination, there is where there was lots of push back. But I will submit that Black Panther's best picture nomination was more deserved than Vice's and Bohemians, and even Green Book's. And I've seen lots of agreement on that, even begrudgingly by many Black Panther haters. Which raises the question, why did you and others focus on Black Panther's best picture nomination to bitch about, and not Bohemian's or Vice's? (Or even Green Book's, for that matter?) Also, the title of this video suggests that there was a point in tine when film criticism was "objective" and Black Panther marks the end of that. That's absurd. Film criticism has always been subjective, and that includes awards.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

I would argue that Black Panther was not superior to Vice or Bohemian (though both were VERY flawed). I did not see Green Book. The reason I made this video in regards to Black Panther's nomination was, due to the Oscar's announcement of their "Best Popular Film" category earlier in the year and given the climate surrounding the film and it's push for Best Picture, it seemed to me that the ceremony was feeling pressure to nominate the film given their controversies in the past and, as I mention in the video, how their actions to defend themselves against said controversies ended up, at least in my opinion, making it seem as though truly worthy films that would be considered "diverse" such as Moonlight or 12 Years a Slave were not so. I didn't make videos about Bohemian or Vice because they were pretty much right in line with what the Academy usually nominates for their top categories. Black Panther seemed so unprecedented in part due to the Academy's genre bias and, given the other factors I mentioned in the above paragraph, it seemed the Academy was nominating the film for purely self-serving reasons. Yes the title was hyperbolic, but I would argue whether you believe that film criticism is mainly objective or subjective (I'd say mostly the former) that today's climate where, as is evident in the video, certain films can be completely written off without any sort of objective analysis due to a critic's reading on a film's perceived political stance (if they give it that fair of a shake at all) or a film that is not well received is defended on the basis of deriding the critic's based on the color of their skin or their gender... then I do believe we are entering a dark place for film criticism.

[@RanMouri82]

@@MacabreStorytelling And a dark place for *any* criticism or logical discourse.

[@arashelahi2618]

You make a very interesting point. I must disagree, however. "Judging a movie purely based on its merits" is not the correct way to Critique film. Sounds wrong? let me explain: The idea that every movie (or piece of art) should be judged on an equal basis and objectively is a sentiment I empathize with, I would like nothing more than to watch whatever I like and simply enjoy or dislike the content and let my engagement with it end there. Unfortunately, neither movies, nor critiques are made in a vacuum, and pretending otherwise is disingenuous. Art and the world are interconnected affecting each other in both overt and subtle ways so to forcefully distance the two in order to achieve fairness is futile. To illustrate my point I'd like to bring up a personal experience. When I was younger I used to love the Disney movie, Pocahontas. There was a sentiment about prejudice and how to overcome it, that I thought was masterfully showcased (as much as it could be for a children's movie), and this message applied to the prejudice of where I lived at the time. Later I learned the historical context that the movie was based on and that has made me despise the film. It has taken what I thought of as sensible handled and overall nuanced to crass and wholly unpalatable. My critique can no more be divorced from me than the movie can be divorced from its context. About the Oscars on the other hand my opinion is simple: they have never been and never will be a fair competition. So any criticism I have of the Oscars is overshadowed by the fact that I think Such award ceremonies are stifling the growth of art and should be replaced from the root up.

[@anony1596]

"Art and the world are interconnected affecting eachother in both overt and subtle ways so to forcefully distance the two in order to achieve fairness is futile" * chef's kiss * I understand the message he was attempting to convey but it just came off so daft and oblivious.

[@Elcopollo]

See. That's the whole problem. The award for the best movies and acting is becoming an award for how many races and genders were involved in creating process. To an extent, where objectively mediocre (although not bad) films are put way above objectively great movies. And that's why I ask myself: did "Parasite" win so many Oscars this year because it's was actually the best picture of the year? Or because all people involved are Korean? The thing is - I don't know. I want to believe that the first suggestion is correct, because personally I absolutely love this movie and legitimately believe it's one of two very best movies of 2019 (along with "Joker"), which deserves all the awards in the world. But knowing Oscars' history, it could also be the second suggestion. And if it is, it's very sad and disrespectful imo.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Well said. Parasite was a masterpiece but how many assholes out there are using the argument that it only won because of diversity?

[@Speculativedude]

@@MacabreStorytelling Exactly. When a good (or great) movie wins, it will always be called into question because we know these methods have been used so much. Will they win legitimately? We'll never know because this has been going on for so long.

[@SirArthurTheGreat]

@@Speculativedude there’s no objective “good” a movie can be so literally anytime a movie wins any award it’s impossible to say it earned it without being subjective because that’s an opinion.

[@danielzerich2179]

This whole decade is insanity.

[@mentalplane]

I'm so glad I discovered your channel. This video and your Departed one are absolutely fantastic.

[@BubblegumCrash332]

I know how the Oscar's can get back on track and kill it in the ratings. Include one porno into best film category

[@tinturtle9168]

So many “white” contributors have been “triggered” by BP. That’s fascinating. That would make a more interesting discussion than whether BP is Oscar worthy.

[@jameshamann465]

Make a video about it

[@treborkroy5280]

Being triggered about someone being triggered.. The triggering..

[@stannisthemannis8694]

Blade is marvel tho

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Is Blade just every CHUDs go-to superhero movie when they want to shit on Black Panther? Probably because Blade's race wasn't an important part of his character which these people can't stand, and because it wasn't overtly political (though it kinda was, in ways moreso than BP and probably better done).

[@iamnotinvolved1309]

He's a Marvel character but he isn't in the Marvel Cinematic Universe that started with Iron Man in 2008

[@kpimkpim349]

Blade only matters when it's time this shit on Black Panther

[@johnnydavis5896]

WOW! Never knew Putin was such a fan of the original Star Wars films.

[@marksilla8276]

The politics of La la Land is what got it in trouble. La la land, a movie of a white man saving jazz and the only black jazz singer is a sellout for changing with the times was not taken lightly with black people like myself. I remember cringing at caucasity of the film. And sometimes it seems like diversity might be the reasons for a movie being nominated, but that could be said for other things like Heath Ledger winning because he had a high profile death, this doesn't take from the quality of his performance. Personally I thought Black Panther deserved it's place. At the end of the day, no mediocre movies from diverse productions ever get nominated unlike the so called "Oscar bait" movies that's sole purpose is appealing to Oscar voters. Or just this year we had the Emily in Paris scandal where a objectively mediocre show got nominated for a Golden Globes while other objectively more deserving shows got snubbed. Some made by people of color. Representation does matter, and I think we all have the idea of an Oscar worthy movie in our head which like it or not has been shaped by the choices that these Oscar voters have made, and Oscar's actually hold value in the filmmaking world so they influence the kind of movies that get made and also inform what roles actors and actresses and filmmakers are more likely to do in order to win these awards which perpetuates the cycle. I think it's growing pains for this section of the industry that has been so segregated for the vast majority of its lifetime and is now coming to grips with the repercussions. Hopefully women or other minorities are recognized enough in the future that it stops becoming headlines when a diverse movie gets nominated and is instead seen as the norm.

[@benjaminscello4623]

This is why I watch foreign media (or lean towards the indie side). Hollywood produces either a social movement or superhero movie and leaves little room for creativity. It is tired and predictable.

[@kimmeeb]

I gotta be honest here: I really didn't enjoy Black Panther. The story was your typical Marvel superhero story, the editing was poor, the fight scenes were underwhelming, and the CGI just wasn't that good. As a film student at the time, I really struggled against my peers that enjoyed the film because "representation," without actually pointing out the good aspects of the film. Every objection I brought up, especially the poor CGI and editing, garnered a response that was usually along the lines that I was racist. It's one of the massive reasons I started to distance myself from the film program/industry/world.

[@user_2793]

Black Panther was so much more badass in CW, they toned him down in the movie tbh. But that aside, Chadwick Boseman was a brilliant actor and seemed like a great guy, may he rest in peace.

[@-haclong2366]

15:11 "Yo, Taylor imma let you finish, but Beyoncé had one of þe best videos of all time". A really vintage meme.

[@eichbdani]

Fast forward to 2021: diversity quotas for movies to be eligible for oscars consideration Quite good foreshadowing you were doing here...

[@posajnejkwahb]

Yikes, did not know about this. Yuck.

[@khalilasbro]

People didn't praise Black Panther because it was the first Black hero in Marvel cinema. Many Black people know Blade is Marvel. It was praised because of the all Black cast in a big budget Hollywood film that didn't include stereotypical roles associated with Black actors. Also it was one of the first times Black people truly felt like it was a movie where they were the focal point, and not just a character or 2 to appease the minority. A lot of it is subtle, and will go over heads, especially if you aren't used to being marginalized, but a good example is the token White hero in Black Panther, that served no real purpose in the story, and could have easily been replaced,but wasn't. Some folks got the hint at what it was referring to, but many let it go right over their heads.

[@genericuser-1]

Lol no human being on this planet can relate to Black Panther (a king by right of succession) or any other Wakandan for that matter (I don't think anyone carries vibranium beads on their wrists that can project holograms). I have no idea how anybody can feel like they're the focal point in Black panther just because they're black.

[@bp9762]

@TheFosterKid FromSpringfield: Dude, are you kidding me? Wesley Snipes totally carried the Blade movies. As Eddie Murphy carried Beerly Hills Cop back in the '80s. Great actors both of them and receiving praise for being great at what they do, not for their skin colour. Any unfair advantage given to a group just increases the resentment an suspicion towards that group. Back in the day, when merit was still a thing, you went to a doctor who just happened to be a black woman and you didn't bat an eye, since she was just the person best qualified for the job. Nowadays one has to wonder: was she really the best one there was, or did she just land the job to fill a diversity quota. Equity policy is not fair to anyone, most of all the people it is supposedly trying to help.

[@khalilasbro]

@@bp9762 Boy, get off my post. "Back in the day", qualified doctors were being passed up for less qualified simply based on skin color. At the same time qualified patients were marginalized to certain doctors simply because other doctors didn't want to treat them. You are a clown for even responding to this post as you either didn't read what i wrote, or cannot comprehend.

[@stevencolatrella3257]

Don't you think that one explanation for people focusing on sexism in the case of Greta Gerwig (whom I agree is an amazing actress and who was deserving of a nomination on the merits of her work, not on gender) is that it is a plausible explanation for the otherwise inexplicable? If someone clearly deserving is not recognized for the quality of their work, and if others are who are less deserving and who are all of another gender or ethnicity or religion etc. isn't it a pretty reasonable thing to raise the possibility that it was sexism (in this case) that was at work? This does not exclude other possible explanations, but you seem to approach the fact that some people see that as the solution to the puzzle as illegitimate, yet you offer no more plausible explanation in that case. You DO offer a plausible explanation for why there are not more nominations of African American actors in many years - there are not enough movies made with mostly Black casts, nor enough actors hired to play these roles. You make a good point that actors should address this problem where it starts, with movie producers, movie companies, and so forth, but in a sense you acknowledge the problem, then kick it down the street. It is possible that actors that complain to those who hire won't get hired (as a former labor union activist, I can tell you that this happens in every field and industry), so perhaps complaining to the Oscars IS their way of addressing the producers and companies, without risking their livelihoods. I agree that we do not want film criticism based largely on political rather than artistic criteria, but do we really expect Texans to be neutral on the Alamo movies? If "Gone With the Wind" had been at least as good a movie artistically but showed a successful slave revolt ending in Django Unchained-like catharsis against Scarlett O'Hara and friends, would it have had a hearing for the Oscars it instead swept in 1937?

[@auntkaz422]

His point with Greta Gerwig was that the argument people were making was only about her gender, not about the quality of her work. She did not deserve to be nominated due to her gender (which is how it ended up looking), she deserved to be nominated due to the quality of what she had done. Which is what the Oscars are SUPPOSED to be about. Sure, she may have been excluded due to her gender, but the people who were commenting on it needed to make the point that her exclusion was egregious because her performance meant she had earned a place there.

[@RanMouri82]

@@auntkaz422 Exactly. It's not enough to cry sexism or racism when you see only guys or only white people nominated, especially in small voting categories. "Well, the Academy's just [label]!" is a sloppy argument.

[@howmuchbeforechamp]

There is no such thing as 'black art' . Just art

[@nathangehman7018]

You have perfectly described this issue which I have been struggling to vocalize for years.

[@battleru4877]

Are you going to make any more GoT or Asoif videos?

[@MacabreStorytelling]

I think I'm going to do a "Game of Thrones: Character Re-write" series, taking each character and re-telling their arc seeing as Season 8 pretty much dropped the ball on all the characters. I already have solid ideas for Tyrion, Cersei, Jaime, and Theon.

[@battleru4877]

@@MacabreStorytelling I'm surprised it took people this long to realize D&D couldn't handle writing the show. Should be interesting to see how you'd have done it.

[@Kaldary]

@@MacabreStorytelling I will look forward to this!

[@HeloisGevit]

@@MacabreStorytelling I will sub if you do this

[@m4fh]

I am sick of people using the word "objective" to describe an opinion, something that is inherently subjective. Objective means that it is a hard, set-in-stone fact that cannot be refuted. 1 + 1 will always equal 2. A ball thrown in the air will always fall down. For someone to say that 1+1=3, that's nonsensical. Same with someone saying that the ball will float and levitate in the air, that's nonsensical. But saying that I think Black Pather is good/bad cannot be compared to saying that 1 + 1 will always equal 2, therefore it cannot, EVER, be considered objective. An "objective opinion" is an oxymoron. Opinions are ALWAYS subjective, always.

[@xBINARYGODx]

Criticism is never objective, even when its seems like it, it still is not. To use games for on example, since that is a bit simpler to demonstrate - a review that claims a fact about a game has lots of bugs is objective (if true), but its neither good nor bad. I for one loved my buggy time with several games, the bugs literally made the game better for me.

[@ellicel]

I think this commentary brings up a good point about the lack of objectivity critiques in the face of so much political/cultural bias. However, I wish there had been less emphasis on the Oscars. Although still a major achievement for creators, I’m not convinced that bowing to social pressures is any less reprehensible than being influenced by costly For Your Consideration campaigns. Ultimately in our increasingly polarized world it’s not at all surprising that there would be so much controversy surrounding all awards shows and frankly, as a consumer, it would be nice if there were a discipline that could at least make an attempt to rise above the name calling. There’s plenty of that from amateurs. Professional film critics aren’t there to show me what I should like, but to educate. There’s a ton of movies and tv shows that I will never see because I know I won’t like the subject matter, but whose expertise I can admire after have read or watched an essay describing it’s mastery of the craft. Likewise there are movies I adore and will watch repeatedly simply because I like them and I’m not at all bothered with those who correctly point out the flaws. I think a film’s cultural impact is important to recognize but that cannot be at the expense of an objective evaluation of its merits. That’s what Twitter’s for.

[@RyanJohnson-sy1ud]

I see big things coming from this channel

[@lisasimpson8895]

film criticism in the oscars has never really been objective. minorities have always been left out, sometimes unjustly. the difference now is that the lack of objectivism serves the purpose to be more inclusive. that said, i do agree that a marvel superhero movie in the oscars seems a little out of place, since marvel doesn't seem to aim at the oscars when doing a movie. and i think some movies are nominated for the wrong reasons, including black panther.

[@lilaznidiot3]

The people who overrate Black Panther because of its cultural significance are the same people who overlook Macabre's insightful analysis because he has a lisp

[@AstroZombi36]

I enjoy his content a lot but when he uses slang terms with his lisp ...it definitely cracks me up lol

[@emiliomanueldepedro9650]

No one complained when Avatar, District 9 and Mad Max Fury Road were nominated. Why this couldn't have? It's very similar to the rest of them.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Well Best Picture has been pretty meaningless since 2009 when they bumped it up to up to 10 nominees, however the big piece of info in this case was the Oscars wanting to introduce "Best Popular Film" before the ceremony which many read as them trying to just give the film an Oscar to draw criticism away from the lack of representation in the nominees.

[@kia2065]

Nah 12 years a slave won all those oscars because it was genuinely the best film of the year hands down

[@MacabreStorytelling]

Hell to the yeah. McQueen should have won Director. I literally haven't even seen someone mention Gravity since it came out.

[@kia2065]

@@MacabreStorytelling actual facts, idk if you agree with this or not but Chiwetel Ejiofor deserved the Oscar that year, although Mathew was incredible! Either one winning the oscars was ok with me haha 😂

[@MacabreStorytelling]

@@kia2065 I just checked the nominees that year and ABSOLUTELY. Chiwetel is criminally underrated. I understand it was McConaughey's "time" and his performance in Dallas Buyer's Club was good, but it sort of felt like he was just playing himself.

[@myronsanders4563]

Im Black......Black Panther was an extremely Mediocre Film that has an extremely painful paint-by-numbers plot and was praised for identity politics instead of the film's Merit. And people in Hollywood are too stupid to realize that their rankings are tanking on their Award Shows because they keep showing MORE of what Regular People don't want to see when they tune in an Award Show. I would bet that the ratings for the Oscars and Golden Globes would be fairly good if they just Present an award nominee, say who won, have the Actor/Director/Screenwriter/Designer etc. Just give a Bland "Thank you everybody" Speech then leave Stage Right and leave whatever agenda they might have at the door Yea, I want Blacks to be recognized more in film but I want them to be recognized for their Talents in film. Weather On Screen or behind Camera, not to be pandered to and being a Check Box on some Decision Maker's "To do" list

[@simplegarak]

You really should read CS Lewis' "Abolition of Man" (short book) which has a substantial piece on objective art criticism.

[@CassidyParkerKnight]

I agree with a lot of this and it’s an interesting topic to think about. Re: Greta Gerwig, people weren’t saying that she should have been nominated because she was a woman, but rather that she was incredibly deserving and that it seemed like the only reason (or at least a big reason) she hadn’t been nominated was that she was a woman. I think it’s a subtle but important difference.

[@MacabreStorytelling]

"Greta Gerwig, people weren’t saying that she should have been nominated because she was a woman, but rather that she was incredibly deserving and that it seemed like the only reason (or at least a big reason) she hadn’t been nominated was that she was a woman. I think it’s a subtle but important difference." While to some extent I agree, I think this got lost in the shuffle and how the media framed the issue. Rather than framing it as "Greta Gerwig deserves a nomination and the gender bias in the Academy is clear so we should not let that prevent her from being nominated" (which is what I agree with) the tone of most discourse around the time were things like "There have only been x amount of female directors nominated!" or "The best director's pool is a boy's club again!". Again, this may be just a product of clickbait journalism, but I'd say this sort of discourse gave the impression at the time that people simply wanted equity in the nominations regardless of deserving. I agree it is a subtle difference but one that makes a big difference.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

10:01 - Missed your chance to take a shot at Leo DiCrapio here.

[@bdpchamp]

Lol what?

[@FULANODETAL]

and you get more confused when THE DARK KNIGHT wasnt nominated at all..(dont count heath ledger cuz was more like "an honnonary one")

[@vl8962]

This should have way more views, such a microcosm of our societies obsession with social issues for the sake of avoiding the responsibility of objective truth

[@PaulRezaei]

I have a dream that one day I will live in a nation where films won’t be judged by the color of its members but by the merit of the work.

[@mtlewis973]

literally who cares about objective film criticism, you’re allowed to have feelings, weird weird obsession with “objectivity” in our culture these days. a film can’t be, as you describe, “objectively mediocre”, it’s art.

[@J03F1X1T]

Every opinion, such as yours, is subjective. This is more about objective opinion. Like this means every person "feels" the same way about the art. You are right, art is art. However not all art is consider good or bad to people. It is just justifying the hype surrounding the film.

[@mtlewis973]

@@J03F1X1T but all you can “objectively” say is like “this person says this line” “this is a wide shot”, you could maybe argue that there are objective statements like “this is a close up to show his emotional response” but whether it works, or whether it’s good, is completely subjective, so unless you just want a technical breakdown of what’s on the screen you literally cannot have “objective film criticism” and we should stop active like it’s some good thing to aim for

[@DarleyHavidsun]

@@mtlewis973 Sheeit, *_very_* well said. 👏

[@vcamv2354]

@@mtlewis973 "Whether it's good" is not subjective. Whether you LIKE it, IS! If the close up is made too close in the actors face in a way you barely can see him emote, if the close up is made on something right to him and you can only see half the actor face, if the close up is badly edited so you don't have time to see him emote, if the shot ends up tilted to some side completely disturbind the harmony of the scene. All of those are objective critiscims! Objective cristiscim would be to critiscize a history in regards of the rules of storytelling that exist for each genre, considering how effective they were trough times. You can have a character that is objectively ill developed and shallow, but people will like for a multitude of reasons. The best examplr I can give is an abusive relationship! One partner constantly beats and trash talks the other, every single day but his/her companion still "loves" and defends the person cause he had a troubled past or he was very good to her/him at the start of the relationship. The abuser is Objectively a bad person, but subjectively, the partner still likes him/her. Even in art there's a place for objectivety, dependding on which ramification you're in! Of course abstract art will be subjective cause it's abstract therefore ypu can apply rules to it, but a cubist art will have to follow rules and can be objectively critiscized cause it has to follow certain certified rules to be considered the cubist style. Try tp watch the youtuber Mauler someday, ok his 2hours videos critiscizing Star wars and you'll see what objective critiscsim is and how rich it can be

[@mtlewis973]

@@vcamv2354 you would need an objective measure to prove WHY any of those things are bad. which doesn’t exist because it’s art and it’s subjective. i would advise you to leave mauler well alone - his videos are objective in that they give a very detailed breakdown of EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THE FILM and then he gives his subjective opinion on whether it’s good or bad. he’s tricked you. you’ve been tricked.

[@chriswilson7288]

But bp didn't win best picture. Being a nominee isnt really a big deal in fact i argue its a token gesture. Meaning adding the film or placeholder popular choice so audience fills gratified. Hell even the grammies does this. Example of this the late Mac Miller and his album. Honestly while mac is a phenomenal rapper compared to most rappers nowadays still him being a nominee for best album that year after he passed and still didn't win made me look into it and as u cud find he was a last second add as a parting idea. BP story wise wasn't strong in fact i have many ways it could have been improved. However it totally deserved its other awards as the awards where for the creativity choices and design choices.

[@anony1596]

Totally agree.

[@imontosomething2609]

Like I always say, Hollywood is weird. And they have a funny way of trying to please people.

[@Rupert3434]

I don't necessarily think you're wrong in stating that some people, specifically powerful film moguls looking to get eyes on movies they've had a hand in making, will leverage political sentiments of any sort to stir up controversy. I also don't think that anyone seriously believes that something like having a film about/made by women and/or black people win best picture at the Oscars is a big social justice win if the systems that continue to marginalize and oppress women and/or black people are not challenged or disrupted. That said, I disagree with the notion that a film, or any piece of art for that matter, can or ought to be judged separate from its historical or political moment. I don't think that a critic who is mindful of that moment in their work is doing their job incorrectly, or not honoring the craft of film analysis. Particularly, what stood out to me is your framing of "politics", "politicizing", or "pollical groups" as being extrinsic to an artistic work instead of part of it. I don't think this is accurate, as all art comes from a time, place, and culture, and stripping that context away doesn't feel like good criticism. Ignorance of this context, I would argue, seems more likely to feel disingenuous, like its an attempt to divorce art from the material reality in which it exists. I take special interest in this notion of "keeping politics out of it", because I don't think that's even possible. When these politics include injustices that are deeply ingrained into how society expects us to behave in and interpret the world, it's not possible to just keep the politics separate unless they actually just don't affect you. Building from this, while there certainly are bad faith actors at play in these interactions, I think it's important to note that things like "#OscarsSoWhite" can sometimes just come into being as the result of the energy from dealing with these systemic injustices having to go somewhere. This isn't saying we should defend a twitter mob for bad actions, but simply to say that we should consider the people behind them empathetically. Don't critics owe it to people hurt by the way our society functions to look at some of these movements not just as malicious agitators trying to stir up shit, but as oppressed people begging to have their voices heard? I feel that the true travesty here is how Hollywood big wigs to leverage these struggles in a superficial way to generate revenue, but it seems like you centered more on the integrity of film critics themselves bowing to perceived political pressure. Isn't it possible that some of them are just trying to grapple with understanding a work of art in its proper context?

[@sdprz7893]

Underrated Channel

[@joltx9909]

hopefully we will reach an era in which everything regarding movies will be judged and criticized in terms of quality: quality of acting, quality of directing, quality of writing and quality of shooting. all things that dont regard to the direct quality of the movie itself is just less relevant

[@joltx9909]

@Matt Ruth A man can dream, cant he? =(

[@stevemeyer4765]

Objectively I’d say that as a marvel movie it’s like a B. Compared to all movies in general it’s like a C+

[@sorudesarutta]

I thought black panther was boring but I can't really say it out loud because racism