Black Rose Wars Review - with Zee Garcia

[@TheKingofAverage]

Well done review Zee! I appreciate your focus on not just reviewing the game, but explaining WHO the game is really for - that's increadibly helpful I am sure to many viewers!

[@ryanbrown9102]

I like zee's approach and the way he explain his opinion in details within a template of parameters, Nevertheless, I'll tell you what I appreciate the most about reviewers as Zee, Tom, Rahdo (which his style is, personally, less for me) , Alex, and others - They keep updating and sharing their rating for games at their bgg collection table as if they've got nothing to hide... And I simply LOVE their approach of transparency. Rating a game takes much MUCH less time and effort than recording and editing a video, and yet, I really reaspect the fact that they find the time to do so! For me, honesty is a core principle, and I just have a lot of appreciation for reviewers that put that effort of updating their honest thoughts. P.S. Those who walk the extra mile by also sharing their opinion or impression in the comments (as Mark Bigney does), well.. those..? Those I already adore.

[@TheKingofAverage]

@@ryanbrown9102 Yeah for sure it's really nice! I don't tend to watch many reviews (as I don't want that to color my own) so it was nice to see one AFTER my own review so I could see how he explained things. I'll be sure to try and keep some what what he did in mind for my own actually.

[@johnpanagos5835]

The spell schools feel really unique. You can play full destruction, or you can go with traps or evocations.... you can teleport or activate rooms without even visit them, you can move your targets in a room and then aoe them. It is amazing.

[@rav3style]

And they all feel different

[@midnight4669]

I have to tell you that this game is absolutely incredible with the SATOR box extras! Pets, are so incredible to adding to everything going on as well. I am so thankful I took a chance on this game years ago.

[@griffglowen5555]

What do you like about pets? I have Sator but not pets

[@marduk3604]

@@griffglowen5555 If he meant familiars those are separate add-ons.

[@griffglowen5555]

@@marduk3604 thanks - yes I knew they were separate I was just interested to hear why he rates them so high. Might be worth me getting them

[@midnight4669]

@@griffglowen5555 In Sine Tempore they are referred to as pets so yes I call them pets. I dont care for the written rules regarding familiars taking up an evocation slot as ot kind of devalues them a bit BUT they are all seperate models woth their own individual stat cards. They have one trait or ability for their kind and then one other specific skill or ability per model. Seriously, they can really spice things up if you know how to use them!

[@RuNacken]

Wow, all these phases - Zee; you're very good at explaining the game. Even with complex stuff like this, I felt you did a great job at helping to kepe track of which phase is what - that recap helped a lot.

[@thebaronvoncarson]

I really enjoy this game. It is a bit overwhelming at first, but once you play it a couple of times it actually feels really smooth and fun.

[@brotherhorus4316]

This is an incredible game, it is the ultimate wizard battle arena style game, it is something you invest into, almost a hobby game. This is not a casual Wizwar style of game, maybe more like Mage Wars perhaps. But once you know the game, it is incredible. 10/10 for me and my wife who picked this up at the UK games expo in 2019. A good review by Zee, even though I did not agree with all of it, I think the Black rose being able to win is cool, keeps the players mindful of some of the actions. We love it. Oh and it plays great two player.

[@theearlyresetband]

I love the Black Rose can win too- def creates tension and urgency- makes it so you just can putter around or turtle the entire game 😂

[@frozenzebra5738]

I love this game! I could play it over and over again.

[@jeremiahdoebler]

It's a deep game my group keeps wanting to go back to, just to try different combos and decks. We havn't even cracked open the new sator box expansion content yet, and that will just make it even deeper.

[@marduk3604]

You should, as the Sator box includes reprinted core cards, phrasing and spelling has been fixed.

[@theearlyresetband]

I Love this game. Painted everything for it - took like two months 😆😆

[@AdamShelar]

Brings a whole new meaning to “Death by Power Point.”

[@DanielMinottoII]

I'm a dad, and I approve of this joke.

[@brianthomson3095]

"wizard on wizard hatefest" ... a great tagline.

[@klaaskaptijn8206]

About as great as 'a teeth pulling endeavour'.

[@xshadowscreamx]

Wizard hatefest 2021

[@michelecarbone2896]

Happy I went retail for this one. I can test the core systems and if I like it I can get more exp in the future. Ares said that they will release more content for it and I am pretty sure we are going to get more schools of magic from Sator box without all the plastic (which helps if you don't have a lot of space to waste).

[@Anty2004]

Played it with one group, everyone loved the crazy action of blasting each other. I played it with another group and the first thing they said was, oh... It's a programming game. It's not a game for everyone but it is a good game. My first group always wants to play it again and we had no problem with the rules and turn structure after the first 2 rounds. A player aid is essential for this game though, just to understand what your spells do and what they target. I'd recommend it if you like working out the best deck combinations but also if you just like grabbing a mage, picking up some fireballs and seeing what insanity ensues.

[@mrdreadful5567]

Was this planned or did it get reviewed because people wouldnt stop asking about it?

[@Clappincardboard]

Played it last night for the first time and loved it. If you like this kinda game and don’t mind a little learning curve you will love it. Def needs the player aid that zee made. I think a player aid would have made this game way easier to learn.

[@iainlangley7219]

he is right about one thing, it is my favourite game of all time and not many others. But then again i am the kind of guy that enjoys tweaking a strong mechanism to make it perfect for me.

[@StabGR]

It’s funny because I “know” Zee so much that my tablet was muted.. the video starter playing.. and I swear I could hear him say “hey, hey everybody”!

[@Nautingaz]

BRW is a really great game!!! Our First game (4 Player - KS Version - Wave 1) was a blast back then. Not nearly as complicated as described, we even had one on the table who did not speak english so we had to translate/explain all the cards to him. It's still in the top 10 list of at least two people of my group. Obviously I do not know how the retail version is done and all the minis from the KS version on the board are just awesome. It has some flaws in proofreading but overall a 9/10 for me. I am also not sure if I am still the average dice tower audience. As fairly 95% of the games presented are far too casual for me. No critics here, still

[@Nautingaz]

@@brandaccount5941 Oh my god! Toxic troll incoming here! Oo That's really sad to see that happen in the board game community. But to answer your question, hoping you will understand it: Because it matters what we played. That game has a lot of expansion content to it. And that means we played more or less only the base game. What makes it comparable to the retail version Zee presented. And believe me that this is a totally different experience than playing it with aaaalll the KS content.

[@judgewilson2410]

@@Nautingaz why not just say you played the base game instead of wave 1

[@BlueGiantMedia]

Top ten game of all time for me. It’s just so much fun with so much to think about.

[@bluehandgamers6893]

This is a top 10 game for all of us as well, very well structured game.

[@AllinWhenPlaying]

I'm starting to think that magic/metaphysics themes just don't click with Zee. Not necessarily that I don't agree in this case but after hearing that for Res Arcana the theme was negative/meh I was really surprised and this made me even more convinced. In here you have mages building their own "spell style" in an attempt to capture a powerful artifact and win over competing mages while doing all kinds of trickery and power plays. I mean, sure you could squeeze a theme of accountants fighting their central computer that gone rogue and threatens to mess up their spreadsheets while the spell decks could be replaced with skills in budget balancing, but if that's the case then most games can be rethemed by anyone with time and imagination at hand.

[@rav3style]

I won a free copy, it is a bear to learn but it’s really fun once it clicks. If it helps think of it like fantasy quake 3 arena

[@nydaloth]

Great review. Very well analyzed. Zee was able to do justice to the game even though it may not be for him.

[@Cergorach]

I actually think he (really) likes it, but stresses that this might not be for everyone else.

[@EnjoyTheChaos]

I’m actually surprised of his final score considering he tore it up in the first half of his final thoughts. I played it for the first time last night. Everything he says is true, but I didn’t feel as strongly as he did. Our scores align surprisingly.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I finally got Wave 2 and have yet to play the game again with them

[@vonwoolf9963]

The base game is already big enough ^^

[@scottarmstrong8178]

Thanks for this. I went all-in on this and have been interested in others experiences. Would be interested in a play through if the DT folks were ever interested.

[@pinkpocket2731]

They already have a play through video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5vWaquOa8t1l5I

[@fastfod1337]

When already owning and liking Mage Wars, will this game be an enhancement or more enjoyable?

[@kyrrilcrepeele1353]

Big miss in my game group. The biggest cons that get mentioned are the finicky spell preparation and the constant changing of quests and events in moon phases.

[@bluehandgamers6893]

We enjoyed the moon phases, it brings a good variety to the game. Once you find a couple of spell houses that work together well, building spell combinations gets easier!

[@AdamWhitehead111]

This would probably be on my list to buy if there was a chance of getting it to the table frequently.

[@theearlyresetband]

Also heads up to folks- there’s a a fella on Etsy who sells colored bases for this game. It’s SO much better than the tiny roses (my one complaint of the game). But I highly recommend - they’re great. Makes the game more accessible

[@saiksaikatai594]

I think the board could have been more diverse and readable. For example a magic castle with various location such as a garden, a dining room, a backyard ... Not just almost identical rooms like it is now. Plus all these colorful stuffs hurt readability. It doesn't look grimm like the other components of the game.

[@griffglowen5555]

After listening to Zee’s comments I didn’t expect him to rate it as high as a 7. I’ve been enjoying the game but can definitely see some of the negatives he mentions

[@vonwoolf9963]

A very fair review, I liked it.

[@evanstrong4064]

Thanks for the explanation Zee! The description of the rules started to sound like one of those parodies of complex board games a la cones of dunshire lol

[@griffglowen5555]

I don’t think the barrier to entry is as high as Zee thinks (although granted it would take a long time to master). The game just looks SUPER INTIMIDATING on first sight. Actually the game does lots to ease you in, like suggesting which decks are simpler for new players, and saying which decks pair well together

[@warpo007]

Wizard stuff!!! We LOVE Wizard stuff though Zee

[@dustinboatman6134]

Almost seems like a more bloated Adrenaline. It looks interesting to me because I really enjoy Adrenaline, but wondering if I will play and just rather take Adrenaline out.

[@jazzeejax5816]

I've played both and really prefer this over Adrenaline.... it doesn't feel too bloated playing apart from the event cards.... I'd like to take those out.

[@dustinboatman6134]

@@jazzeejax5816 I really like Adrenaline, partly because of how straight forward it is, so I am not sure I would prefer the extra steps on this one, but it looks interesting enough to try, for sure.

[@Graversen84]

As always do I like your review. I just gave up on this one, the board are really confusing. When you put a piece on the board can it be hard to see it again. So great reviw. 👍

[@scottbech173]

My gaming group loves this game. The core game spell schools are not that balanced but the new stretch goals schools help. The only problem with it is we are so good at it now the game only last 3 maybe 4 turns

[@danielwoltanski1413]

Macguffin Wars: the board game!

[@Skarpo89]

What do you think of the Black Rose vs Cthulhu in Auztralia? Do you not enjoy that one either?

[@DullDishwater]

Finally! Thanks for doing this!

[@Skarpo89]

Because of the required multiple replays is why I didn't back nor buy this game, it looks very good all in all but I wouldn't find a group of friends to play this so many times as to really enjoy it.

[@fredericbarbe]

I had an ok 2 players experience, but the game most likely shines at 4 players

[@ilqrd.6608]

Oh this game! I remember it from seeing it on craigslist. It seems backers are quite eager to sell it for hundreds and hundreds of dollars but yeah...no

[@kriba6755]

Total agree on programming. Not needed. I prefer to play cards directly from my hand onto my free slots. Deckbuilding /Handbuilding. Its neither nore. They way brw handles the building part feels not intuitive. We will come up with some variants

[@Marek_Kosciak]

Programming is for big brains. Pass it and play as you like.

[@kriba6755]

@@Marek_Kosciak yes. For games like e.g aquasphere, wallenstein, mombasa, etc. But BRW is a chaotic dynamic game, which is OK. But cause of this dynamic i cannot see much use /strategy of programming. ... To play from hand, adapting to the situation actually makes the game much more strategic for the game that it is. At least for our group

[@Marek_Kosciak]

@@kriba6755 If it works for your group. Go for it. I believe some cards are very powerful and situational when you play it from hand you can break the game.

[@pcpandemic3394]

not sure I agree with the ten games part: you can quickly gaze over the decks to understand what they do and you'll have a pretty good idea since the first games. dunno what the retail version has in it, but there's also the almanac that can help with that

[@thomnewton9024]

I'd agree wit this. I'm one of the people who really love this game, but I can see all the flaws in it that'd put some other people off.

[@patriziopastore9895]

Nice review thanks!!!

[@difenderu]

It's Zee! =)) Also, art in this game looks nice. )

[@ravenwolf64]

Link to your player aid?

[@alessioottomano2237]

This is abs. one of my fav ones

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Pass! Thanks for the review.

[@koben333]

I seriously disagree with your “ease of play” argument. My group, who are not even native english speakers or into the heavier games didn’t find it difficult to play the game. Yes, it’s long but not really a difficult game to learn. Mastering it will take a lot of time but that’s a positive thing for us.

[@bloodrunsclear]

This is like a cross between Avalon Hill and I Am Vlad

[@daedalus25]

This game definitely wasn't for me. I regret going all out on the Kickstarter (the aesthetics lured me in), and now I need to put it all back together to try to sell off.

[@BNuttSack]

Looks awesome... Way too complicated for me tho

[@jaslygod]

Don't waste the back of a rulebook! (c)

[@warpo007]

Want to play this. But need a solo version. i hate people (may, or may not be true)

[@marduk3604]

There are solo rules, albeit not as exciting as with live players.

[@pallidmask3822]

For a guy who is known for not liking these types of games, he sure reviews quite a few of them...

[@lystic9392]

The board reminds me of Lords of Vegas. Pretty tough to read with all the colors and distracting details.

[@MicBain]

That's strange, I've never had any players get confused by the board on Lords of Vegas.

[@lystic9392]

@@MicBain ^_^ I guess I'm special like that. For what it's worth my dad who I was playing the game with had the same issues. But he's colorblind so maybe that's why it was tougher on him.

[@DullDishwater]

I agree this board is hard to read, but I’ve never had a problem with Lords of Vegas (one of my fave games). I could see colourblindness being an issue though.

[@alfonsomateo9166]

Seems to me like a complicated Adrenaline

[@truenorth2615]

7!..lol...I thought he was going to give a 2 or something like that. This was an overwhelmingly negative review, not sure how you can give this a 7.

[@ArtisticWanderings]

Love the game except for the ability for the Black Rose ability to win the game. I just ignore that part.

[@Justin-mu8hh]

I just let the black rose war end the game. Never win it. So the player with the highest score in that case wins.

[@ArtisticWanderings]

@@Justin-mu8hh Perfect solution.

[@conillet]

Yikes - you would have to pay me (a lot) for playing this.

[@GoldenSirius]

I was so disappointed by this game.

[@phunkysai]

Zee, I like seeing your thoughts on a game, but could you possibly consider just talking about the game without going down a list? A lot of times I just want to see your general thoughts without having to wait through stuff I don't necessarily care about (kind of like what you do for your 4 Square reviews or countdowns)....Not trying to be snarky or mean, just a thought for possible consideration...

[@Bugnone21]

This game suuuuuck :D

[@wishmeheaven]

How come..?

[@cobisari]

I love this game and yet I think your criticism is spot on!