Bleed - Exploring Psychological Transference in Games - Extra Credits

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"Bleed" describes one type of emotional impact games can have on players, where empathy is high and the barrier breaks down a bit between who you are and who you're playing as. We discuss different game narrative techniques to encourage emotional bleed.
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[@extrahistory]

Bleed isn’t inherently good or bad. Some experiences leave us feeling awful about ourselves, while others leave us feeling on top of the world. What's a recent experience you had playing a game where you experienced some sort of strong bleed?

[@Xeider]

Those underwater stages of every game, from sonic to tomb raider...

[@Viaishta]

This happens to me tbh. Just not with games. Every time I read a good hp fanfic, I'll have those moments where I think I'm the main character in the story and I forget everything else.

[@Trent_-jl8xt]

God of War, some of the interactions that Kratos had with his son reminded me of my father. I saw a lot of myself in Atreus.

[@reller82]

I really felt like Mozu when I out ran these guys. gamerdvr.com/gamer/electro-tiger33/video/42827916

[@Syurtpiutha]

Thief: The Dark Project. I remember being hidden behind an open door when one of these freaky mantis-things had heard me and was looking for me. It's claws occasionally clipped through the door, it's freaky muttering. Tense. Both ingame and out. In my case games that make you feel vulnerable have this effect more strongly.

[@TooMuchThought]

For D&D having care about the characters is so important. My character recently died and there were actual tears from some fellow players.

[@valpodesideromontoya2097]

Man, my friends always WANT my character to die. Heh.

[@danilooliveira6580]

one of the reason I don't like sessions where the DM don't care about killing characters. if its a casual series of games or the idea is to not take it seriously, sure. but if your players invested hours fleshing out their characters, then they are more interested in creating a story than to playing a simple game of killing monsters and defeating enemies. then you better be sure every death will be meaningful and only happen when its unavoidable. its the GoT conundrum. when every character can easily die unpredictably, it starts to get harder and harder to be invested on their storyline.

[@Grymbaldknight]

Agreed. I've cared more about my characters in tabletop RPGs than i sometimes have about real people. One time my character accidentally killed an NPC who was trying to help us (don't ask), and i felt like shit for days afterwards.

[@danilooliveira6580]

@DeSPoTNemanjaS logically, yeah. but in practice that is not what happens. there is a difference between real danger and hopelessness. if you feel that the characters are bound to die eventually, then you stop getting invested on them.

[@rickimaru915]

When one of my fellow player's characters died in a recent game the rest of us were on him like vultures, taking all his gear lol

[@MrValvoja]

Our D&D group just had a conversation about how healthy it is to get into the headspace of our characters. On one hand, the genuine joy that players get when their characters succeed is amplified quite a bit when they share the character's emotions. On the other hand, it can be tricky for the DM to lead the story down a path where the characters fail due to betrayal and plot twists if the players feel that their character's failure in universe mean that they themselves have failed at the game. Add in the time investment (our game's been going on for 3½ years now), and it becomes a balancing act to keep the players engaged with real difficulty and potential for failure to make the wins feel real.

[@Katt-ci6gw]

Valdemar Valvoja meanwhile I struggle as a dm to keep my players from killing every living thing XD

[@joserenatomigliorini4627]

I will never forget 2 things: the dilema when i had to chose between Legion and Tali i mass effect, i put the controler down and went to my mother for council. And when i got the cutscene for the final battle in dragon age origins, all the armies of Ferelden getting together to fight, all these people i saved and help and manipulated to be here, i saw all my work come to bear fruit

[@NegativeEdge64]

That's interesting. Was your mom also invested in the story? If not, did you tell her exactly what was going on in the story or did you speak in metaphors and euphemisms?

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

I chose Tali because Tali is hot.

[@hilman567]

I don't like either choice on tali or legion. Which is why i played back mass effect 1&2 and Strictly follow a walkthrough to get the peace between geth and quarian.

[@KaptenN]

@@hilman567 Wait... Isn't that the natural ending you get from simply being a paragon throughout the whole story?

[@Ajc-ni3xn]

But the thing is, with Legion and Tali you can choose both.

[@StarrySidekick]

I usually rate a games quality based on how much “bleed” it creates. I never thought about it being a bad thing or just a side effect. To me, with most games, it’s the entire point of the experience.

[@solsystem1342]

You should try "I was a teenage exocolonist". (If you're ok with all the content warnings and the style of gameplay) I've never felt the same level of bleed from a game. At the same time though, the game is suprising homey (at times). Not because it's sunshine and rainbows but, because the writing and mechanics pop so well. Like, you get live 10 years on an alien planet but, it's almost more fascinating for me how alive the other characters feel because you get to see so much more of their lives (or how tragically short they're cut) and the people they become. Which most games just can't do.

[@RedKytten]

The 'intro scene' for Last of us still gets me, even when I know what is going too happen... such a hard hitting and well done moment.

[@harrywompa]

butt lmao, that killed me Also, I experienced negative bleed a lot while playing the original God of War trilogy. I was abused as a kid and home was always super toxic, and Kratos was a kind of katharsis I desperately needed. However, I found that the longer I played, the less peacefully I would try to handle my parental abuse. I got violent and angrier quicker. So while it helped me vent my anger in a healthy way, it also and unfortunately reacted poorly with my real world situation. This of course got utterly misconstrued by my parents, who to this day think video games make children violent. Like no.... you guys tormented me, and this was an escape, and when you pushed to take that away, I lashed out.

[@pussinboots838]

Do your parents happen to be Gods? *YOU'LL PAY FOR WHAT YOU DID TO ME ZUES!!!*

[@legendarytat8278]

I'm sorry for you

[@emanmehmood9435]

are you okay

[@OdysseyHome-Gaming]

That sucks. I always pitied Kratos because his violence always lead him to greater and greater tragedy. Not a good role model to emulate but not a lot of game protagonists are sadly.

[@josephrogers1282]

you euthanized your faithful companion cube more quickly than any test subject on record. Congratulations.

[@nirast2561]

Me: Hmm... Guess I'm not experiencing bleed too much, since I don't usually feel what the characters are fee- Spec Ops The Line: Yo! Me:... Oh... Hi...

[@malgold88]

Ah yes, the game that broke Yahtzee Croshaw. Seriously underrated...

[@miquelescribanoivars5049]

He is JUST LIKE ME!! Well... Shit...

[@malgold88]

@@miquelescribanoivars5049 yeah, weird feeling.

[@fireaza]

"You're here because you wanted to feel like something you're not: A hero."

[@MalaysianChopsticks]

radu nicolae ah shit, here we go again. It’s going to be the 7th playthrough now... once a year I kept being pulled back in!

[@ClydeC]

Bleeding Effect, Abstergo warned us about this 13 years ago

[@insaincaldo]

I've been in the simulation for sometimes days at a time, should I start going by Subject 16?

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

weirdly enough I do get that feeling after a few hours of playing the good assassins creed games

[@bananasean5145]

First time I play Assassin Creed 4 I drank captain morgan, lit several ocean scented candles and had a fan I could adjust to mimic the wind.

[@SamuraiMujuru]

Hellblade is a fantastic example of bleed being use to spectacular effect

[@Unit27]

Phillip Malerich agreed, I distinctly remember feeling the same fear Senua was feeling in the introduction while rowing that boat

[@ASLTheatre]

BTW if anyone has felt sadness when your Pokémon dies in a Nuzlock challenge, you have experienced “bleeding”.

[@aarontwisted951]

I feel you there bro

[@Dragonman0007]

Yeah... I never did a nuzlocke challenge...

[@razzvyberry4694]

Arceus damn you Dunsparce with rollout, you killed my Oshawott

[@Ravenkiko]

when I was a child I would cry when "they *killed* my pokémon!" & my mom knew enough to console me like "baby, they just passed out, okay? you'll heal them! "

[@LOBricksAndSecrets]

Video: "When a character goes through experiences that feel familiar to us" Text on screen: "Date me?" Me: "I wish that was a familiar experience."

[@LeVraiPoio]

The Banner Saga trilogy. So much bleed. In all 3 parts. I still listen regularly to the ending music of the first one, it still brings tears in my eyes.

[@jazzyjay2802]

What remains of Edith Finch was such a Bittersweet game for me. I completely bought into and felt struggles that each of the finches dealt with especially what Lewis was dealing with in his job at the factory was so heartbreaking.

[@thebigsad9463]

I subbed to this channel to watch great history content and now I'm watching a psychology lesson... Best channel ever

[@micaelgarcia1576]

The other way around for me, also, game theory is COOL!

[@Adam-cq2yo]

From what I can tell, having watched KZbin videos for years and _not_ making games (lol), game design is at least 50% psychology.

[@ULTRA2201]

I know right, Extra Credits deserve as much attention as Extra History.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

2-D > 3-D A real person: (Dies) Me: (Yawns) A fictional character I can relate to: (Dies) Me: I'm beginning to rethink my entire existence

[@TheRandomguy2011]

It's called autism

[@rogerogue7226]

@@TheRandomguy2011 No it's not, and i better hope you wrote that out of lazyness rather then ignorance.

[@iHIMMA]

That's kind of... sad.

[@kermit8173]

Wow you are so cool and different

[@kermit8173]

@@rogerogue7226 Autism is a generic insult at this point. He's saying the equivalent of "you're an idiot" not "I think you have a mental disease"

[@Dice12K]

2:32 NSFW ALERT! Cats! Cover your eyes!

[@NoNameAtAll2]

Thanks I wouldn't be ready for that I don't understand why would they add that thing -_-

[@skaterdude7277]

someone enjoyed that

[@theharlequin7280]

*unzips pants*

[@TomcribbLemon]

Furry alert

[@SonplaysMinEcraft]

Top 10 Sexiest Women in Anime

[@Some__Guy]

0:14 "Ah yes, Mario games, the *pinnacle* of emotional experiences."

[@cosmossexiestmanever]

Mario only shouts in joy from moving around and surprise from falling too far; link only gasps in surprise or pain. Yeah, they aren't characters, they're animated corporate logos. Seems a shame they didn't mention the point in FF7 were Cloud is mind-controlled into assassinating Aeris and the game actually makes every button draw your sword, walk toward her and begin to attack - figuratively mind-controlling YOU. Of course, he regains control at the last second, but you probably know the cut scene that immediately happens after. This is one of the first iconic moments in ludo-narrative AGREEMENT and literal translation of character experience to player experience. Missed opportunity.

[@blitz4506]

Some Guy lol... yeah that made no sense

[@Byakurenfan]

@@cosmossexiestmanever wind waker, twilight princess, and skyward sword would like to have a word with you.

[@vastcoolman9876]

@@Byakurenfan Those games came out after FFVII.

[@Byakurenfan]

@@vastcoolman9876 ok so how does that refute my coubter point of these games having expresive characters despite what the person I replied to say they were nothing more then logos?

[@Unit27]

My favorite bleed inducing moment is in Brothers: A Tale Of Two Sons. The game spends a lot of its effort making you care for your characters, their relationship, and their fears. Then, in the end, it drops the best use of controller rumble I've ever felt to tie it all together. I've never felt such a mix of emotions from a controller rumbling.

[@sharif47]

Try their second game, "A Way Out", then.

[@Shicksalblume]

"Some experiences leave us feeling awful about ourselves." What a concise description of Spec Ops: The Line.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

"Does this unit have a soul" gets me every time even after years.

[@ASLTheatre]

While at home recovering from a car accident I felt the “bleeding effect” from Starkiller in The Force Unleashed 2.The symptoms he exhibited were the same that I was experiencing at that time.

[@Grymbaldknight]

This is, to me, why games can absolutely be considered "Art"... at least in some cases. You don't get bleed in any other medium except video games, because *you* are the one in control. This might also be why some games, such as visual novels, provoke either adoration or apathy in different gamers. VNs are usually first-person, story-heavy, and character-focused. They may appeal to those who experience bleed more easily.

[@takatamiyagawa5688]

2nd case in Ace Attorney is pretty satisfying to win since both Phoenix and the player would have been looking to _her_ as a mentor.

[@KarolaTea]

Whoever's responsible for coming up with the bleed visualisation: it look cool, thank you.

[@Psychol-Snooper]

You mean the multi-colored gravity defying slime on the character's heads? What even was that?

[@skaterdude7277]

yo, artists, great job. yyou make all the panels of people with distinct traits and hairstyles. nobody asked but i love it

[@patbrown2330]

Bleed is the reason why I love Life is Strange more than practically any game I've ever played.

[@HyenaFox]

Yeah. The story, up until the ending, is incredibly compelling. Too bad the ending sucks so much...

[@christopherg2347]

Game in BvS Voice: "Tell me: Do you bleed?"

[@timothymclean]

The first time I played _The Walking Dead,_ I was so furious at one of the in-game characters that I killed him the instant the option came up...and then immediately regretted my decision when I realized Clementine was watching. That's one of those gaming moments I'll never forget, just because of how in sync with the player character I was. I acted in anger, and realized my mistake all too late. That doesn't happen much.

[@Ravenkiko]

dude, I remember falling on the floor sobbing as a kid when I accidentally screwed up and got my NPC partners killed.

[@shawnheatherly]

Same. I've wept over deaths that weren't even avoidable, simply because I'd grown to care about the party member.

[@insaincaldo]

Some of the strongest I've seen this is on things like Xcom LP's, where the watching community largely acts as the base crew and soldiers.

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

Secret of evermore had a storyline that had you seperated from your dog. You had to grind for a long time before you could meet him again. But... The button to let him sniff out bieden treasures still worked, you could hear your buddy sniff. So many hours i was just wandering the country, listening to my buddy...quite a few 'enough for today' moments there.

[@Ravenkiko]

@@microchip9982 Same! lol, his name was Robert Paulson goddammit!

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

the scene Where BJ wakes from his Coma in Wolfinestein the new order is VERY effective I get chills every time i play it it just makes what your about to do to the Nazis all the more satisfying

[@is-be6725]

1:13 Argo sacrificing himself in Shadow of the Colossus was unbelievably heart wrenching.

[@typemasters2871]

Who here also played Pokemon mystery dungeon explorers of sky and cried at the credits? I have

[@ThatGuy53297]

Yes, like the last part scratching the cats cheek while rubbing your cheek on the cat too. Watching that made me smile cus I now want to hug my cat again for being fluffy.

[@puddel9079]

Mass Effect 3, Secret of Mana, Shadowrun Dragonfall, and Undertale. These are, personally, the games that caused the most bleed for me as a gamer.

[@mechamicro]

Deltarune, A Hat in Time, Persona series (Damn cult)

[@-4subscriberswithahammerad521]

Bleeding? I ain’t got time to bleed Also me: respawns*

[@scttlewis02]

Did i....did i just see motion? My gosh i have been following this channel since 2017 and i haven't seen motion at all! This is a big step, guys. GUYS! This is the future!!!!

[@gargarfinks]

I definitely experience bleed in videogames, both positive and negative. When the protagonist is strongly developed, and the world is immersive, I tend to apply the game's mechanics to everyday Life. When given a blank slate, or no slate at all, I create my own backstory and let the game speak for itself. But seriously, this was an outstanding video. Great job, Extra Credits!

[@singingstranger2571]

I wonder... is bleed part of what makes the players of certain game communities extra toxic in their communication with each other? Because they are in the headspace of the game they are playing (commonly rather high stakes/violent games with a lot of internal tension resulting?)

[@Pelitaiteilija]

No, I doubt that's the case. This is most common in games with multiplayer setups where the player's progress is ranked or measured. That'd be some different psychological thing at work. It isn't caused by your character's anger transferring to you. Often, the characters don't even react to their deaths in multiplayer games - at least, not emotionally. Your character's playstyle and quips might end up influencing your mindset, though. Perhaps playing as an aggressive, in-the-face character puts you in a mindset where you react with more toxicity than when playing as a friendly, calm or calculating character. But that might not be psychological transference, but just the result of fast pace demanding & releasing more adrenaline...

[@Kalancodragon]

Thank you so much for giving me a phrase to describe something that affects me so very strongly. I don't consider myself an innately emotional person, but I can relate to and 'be' the character in games usually very easily.

[@animalgalgamingandreviewin6280]

I'm someone who is very emotional and empathetic and no matter how many times I watch Red's death in X7, X5's ending, Iris' death in X4, I still get teary eyed. I also still get happy when X and Zero reunite in X6, when Tails hugs Sonic in Sonic Forces. I could go on and on but let's just say that experience bleed very easily.

[@landon.packrat3281]

My most intense gaming experience was playing Thief: The Dark Project. I was on the level where I was exploring underground ruins for some mcguffins. I was playing with the lights out and the headphones on. I immersed completely. I WAS Garrett, slowly climbing a falling apart tower. And when I fell off in game, for a brief moment I thought I was going to die IRL. I felt the sensation of falling, complete with the intense pressure on my feet. I had to turn the lights on and sit in a corner for a few moments to let the adrenaline calm down a bit.

[@senecagordon5472]

There is so much bleed in stardew valley. Who actually marries and divorces because they think their character would like that, or is it just because you want the full experience.

[@ultimatevinpix9854]

The best example of bleed I can think of is in Alternate Reality Games. Where the player is going to the places and feeling the game pieces and they are apart of the game. I watched a movie about one where someone was so invested they forgot is was a game.

[@feudela4357]

I recently finished Planescape: Torment and it left me a little tore up. It was a very dialogue driven game (even for a 90s CRPG) and the game forcing you to watch your party members sacrifice themselves for your behalf, sharing your torment, made me angry at the final boss and gave me a reason to finally put aside diplomacy.

[@BleakNote]

R.i.p Faendal. Trusted ally, steward, fellow wood-elf and most importantly, my best friend in all of Skyrim. Completed the whole game (or equivalent... its skyrim) before he was slain in a surprise bandit attack. Couldnt load my last save either as it would have put me back 5 levels or something like that.... will never forget that marvelous elf.

[@OninRuns]

I find a very important part of this is game writing. It's so much easier to immerse into Geralt in the Witcher 3 because all his friends and family are super well written and well developed characters. They come off as your buddies, as your love interests, before you even have to start acting towards them that way. You're automatically invested in the character you play as, but the more you can be invested in the NPCs, the more personal your interactions with them become.

[@CoVi1310]

If you want a great example of this, I've played this gamee called Spec Ops: The line. The game is a Cookie Cutter well made Third Person Shooter, but the story is on another level of narrative. That game made me feel physically sick on 2 particular moments when I felt as sad as the protagonist. Seriouslly, I'm not a shooter kind of gamer but if you want to experience something different I'd recommend this game from 2011.

[@kentowakai1234]

The greatest amount of bleed happens in Gran Turismo for me. I find it alters the way I drive for days.

[@dwarfenhoschi]

Thanks covering this topic! As a digital and Larp Game Designer this is something I really want to see more Designers know about and work with in their own games, and you did a wonderful job of summarizing it (as always)!

[@99sins]

Kudos to whoever did the art, i really like the expressiveness of the faces. Either you/they really improved or whoever got brought on really knows how to capture "genuine" representations of emotional states.

[@NoizeViolation]

Not to mention the cat butt.

[@HappyQuumquatDay]

I experience this frequently, whether in movies or games. I'm also a fairly creative guy who likes to help people, so I can't stomach horror or overtly jerkish or evil characters, but I get great satisfaction in subverting the norms where doing the right thing is unexpected. One of my favorite examples of this was playing my sith warrior in SWTOR. Going light side means you get to present yourself as a noble samurai who genuinely loves the empire and wants it to improve. What makes it worth playing, however, is how your peace and determination breaks expectations. In a setting where I was under orders from my master to hurt a rival through their parents, instead of killing mom & dad I had them sent to empire to love like royalty. I justified it as showing the empire's superiority, but in the end, I got to save the parents. Also, I love when my sith peace and determination throws Jedi off balance, often resulting in them becoming the attacker. It's just so much more fulfilling being a good guy who's a sith or a smuggler than a Jedi, when it's expected. Just my two cents.

[@sofaris576]

I think the most intense level of bleed I experienced with the game "Persona Q Shadow of the Labyrinth". That plot twist did hit hard.

[@DarkarDengeno]

Well this was a nice spot of serendipity, just a few hours ago I was talking with my rpg group about how we could become more invested in our characters and roleplay better in-game. I tend to run very mechanics and systems heavy games so I've found that creating that connection can really be a challenge.

[@erthbound]

One of the best experiences with Bleed I had so far was in Yakuza 6. The way the game made me feel directly impacted the way I played the game, playing way more defensive when fighting against a character I didn't really wanted to fight against at that point, while going completly berserk in fights against characters I hated

[@n0rdlys_40]

This takes the phrase "I'll make you bleed" to a whole different level.

[@shawnheatherly]

Empathy, one of the most powerful possible benefits from gaming. Bleed is amazing.

[@insaincaldo]

As someone who grew.. distant from the emotions of people around me. The feelings I can get vicariously through media is one of the things that have helped me from feeling like I've experienced emotional death and might have contributed to me actually being able to get close to people again.

[@spacechase9705]

this is like what a great youtuber once said: "It's not write what you know, it's know what you write." do not make assumptions on how things work in sci-fi games or something like that. because things are just going to end up being boring for the player. it's not cool just because you slapped quantum into it. you need to search the facts, accept them, and use them. when trying to cause bleed, you can't just assume it'll cause someone to feel one way. you have to get a large sample size, then make situations based on how you would feel. then, see if how you feel will resonate with everyone else. if a majority feels sadness playing, and you wrote it based on how you would feel sad, then you've done it. if people feel the same emotions playing as you did when thinking how you'd react or how you'd feel, then congrats! you've achieved bleed.

[@AviRox1154]

Red Dead Redemption 2 had me feeling actual existential dread as Arthur approached his inevitable death and tried to leave a lasting legacy in his last days. It was a shock to be dwelling on those kinds of questions long after I put down the controller.

[@capt.mindloss2202]

Fable is got to be good example of a game that emotions could effect the way the game is played as well as effect on the players emotions outside of the game.

[@cc1e4me]

Dude Turner dying in COD WW2 made me cry because I liked him the most

[@ggwp638BC]

Had a similar experience with CoD MW3. When "Dust to Dust" starts, you're in the van as Captain Price, the mission log comes up with a simple command "Kill Makarov" and Price puts everything you're feeling into a single line: "This is for Soap".

[@adoredpariah]

Very interesting, I'm sure a lot of us have experienced the negatives aspects of people "bleeding" into mmo games in a toxic or negative way, but that doesn't outweigh the ways people can do so in a positive manner too. I have definitely played games that bled into me like described too, and the idea that it is linked to what acting/performance entails makes a lot of sense. Thanks for introducing me to the concept.

[@nullpoint3346]

I've felt my characters injuries before, and then actually experienced quite a few of them later on irl, turns out my phantom pains were true to life.

[@LazyVik05]

I remember the the first time i played DA:0 as the Human nobel. I remember filing sad and angry because i was betrayed.

[@Cross_Malaki]

Three. Piano. Notes. Do I need to explain any further, or is every single Chosen, Bearer, and Unkindled crying now?

[@Ansible100]

dragonzrul Whyyy would you bring that up!?

[@generalamsel437]

I think perfect example of this is your characters relationship with the other characters in the Dark Souls games, i remember that in Dark Souls 3 that once Siegward of Catarina died in the battle with Yhorm i physically had to stop playing to prevent myself from breaking out in tears at the loss of a friend.

[@Raigan_Avalon]

I have experienced this, in probably my favourite game ever, Spec Ops: The Line. I finished the game in 2 or 3 sittings. But I had to stop after the white phosphor scene. I felt physically sick for what I did. In hindsight, I stopped at the wrong point as having to confront what I did at the start of the next sitting was an emotional gut punch I wasn't ready for. But it's also that which makes it my favourite game.

[@howdyyall9705]

1:03 omg tag ur detective pikachu spoilers

[@JustDaZack]

Really enjoyed this video, thanks. My most recent experience with a lot of "bleed" has been with the manga/anime Bakuman which just continues to bring me on an emotional rollercoaster.

[@shumanbeans]

This is my favorite thing in gaming and the reason I want to make games

[@JanTuts]

I played "Papers Please" once, but only about 10-30 minutes in, I had to quit and uninstall it, because I was starting to get something that I can only describe as a anxiety attack... :(

[@MalaysianChopsticks]

Jan Tuts APPROVE. “NEXT” *printer sounds* Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@TheValkosuklaa]

I remember feeling really bad as a kid when I killed a person in video game and started to think that what if the person killed had people who cares about them or what kind of childhood they had. Now it feels kind of stupid overthinking about fictional people but i was and still am pretty emotional.

[@wingedmirage4226]

I think fanfiction and fanart are also an effect from strong bleed. You strongly relate to the chars, and want to put them in your own scenarios, which further makes them relatable to you as you create your own version of them.

[@MasticinaAkicta]

Story based games and I don't mean Action RPG Lites, but actual story based games where choices affect what happens can do this right. There are some lovely smaller rpg's coming up, like that sunken city one, the cthulhu one... oh yes! That will be fun.

[@JonBck]

Nice! And thanks for referencing this back to Nordic Larp! Really liked the episode, but one thing I reacted to: I think it's a bit too much of a simplification to say that there is a mapping between the likeness of your activity and the probability of bleed. Especially in Nordic Larp there is often a deliberate step back from that 1-to-1 mapping, as there are many other design solutions which are often more effective.

[@borofreak]

This was the best episode in a very long time. Thank you!

[@spandandasgupta5773]

I don't know if this is related or not, but in my opinion, bleed are of two varieties (according to what I have yet experienced) emotional bleed, aka empathy, and mechanical bleed, aka getting into the zone. As emotional bleed is already covered by many, I would like to share my thoughts on mechanical bleed. As I have experienced, mechanical build happens, usually, either when you play for a long, long time, or the game or its part having a particular rhythm (like dark souls' combat) or in a general high stress situation (like a race or a chase sequence). And in my experience, it can go both ways too, once when I was playing AC: Odeysey, my friend almost hit me by mistake and both me and alexios dodged away. Personally, I think mechanical bleed makes the games fun and helps establish emotional bleed as well, because when you are affected by mechanical bleed, you forget the controller and become the character. Though mechanical bleed is highly temporary, till your play session ends, it is what makes the game fun. A really good game makes you both emotional and mechanical bleed.

[@ultromegus3134]

I felt Naked Snake when he had to climb that long ladder in MGS3. It's a pain in a ass.

[@pussinboots838]

You *felt* _naked_ snake? I don't judge but at least add no homo.

[@JanTuts]

What a thrill...

[@ultromegus3134]

@@pussinboots838 > never heard of Naked Snake/ Big Boss, Solid Snake, liquid Snake, Solidus Snake or Venom Snake/Punish Snake?

[@pussinboots838]

@@ultromegus3134 issa joke missta

[@Shadowreaper5]

It's amazing that we finally have a term for this experience. I've done the mario cart lean too, but my most recent memory of bleed is the new tomb raider games. Every time Lara got hurt in a cutscene I whinced something fierce.

[@mr.cup6yearsago211]

I experience Bleed a surprising amount in the game Wrestling Revolution. It’s not much, it’s just that when I’m losing a fight, I’ll get frustrated. That doesn’t sound like Bleed at first, but in WR, there are absolutely 0 consequences to losing a match, so my frustration has no grounds to exist, other than me feeling my character’s pain of feeling like there’s nothing he can possibly do to win the current match.

[@ExpertDual]

When I fought Master Xehanort in KH3 I was super invested. As a residual bleed after I beat/was playing persona 5 I was more confident but also more prone to anger.

[@StRodeNL]

You guys should really do an Extra History series on the Dutch Revolt somewhere in the near future. Love you guys by the way! Keep up the good work!

[@sophiejones7727]

I feel like you left out something important. Although every person experiences bleed a little differently: it is to a fairly large degree predictable, and something that a designer should take into account. Players simply can't play as effectively when they're say crying, or really angry. For example, there was this character in an MMO who members of one faction were quite emotionally attached to. We'd done a lot of quests for him, spent a lot of time with him, and he had a cool relationship with his father (another fan favorite character). Naturally, he ended up mind-controlled by the big bad as a raid boss. What I noticed was that the developers had clearly taken into account how emotional many players were going to be when they designed the boss fight. It's mechanics were straightforward and very familiar, since they were lifted from the ability list for one of the player classes. The boss hit like a truck and had a lot of health, but he had no immunities (a common feature of bosses in the game) nor did he have any phases to remember. Basically, they had made an effort to minimize the amount of attention players needed to devote to the fight, and the amount of communication they needed to do. You still obviously needed to make good use of your abilities, have good gear, and know the mechanics: but a breakdown in communication, or a lapse in attention was far less likely to wipe out half the raid than in a normal fight. They knew peoples minds were going to be preoccupied: even people who might not otherwise pay much attention to the game's narrative. It's a good thing the developers took this into account, otherwise this fight might have stopped a lot of guilds from progressing for no good gameplay reason. If you didn't already know: the game is WoW, and the character is Dran'osh "Deathbringer" Saurfang. This was particularly brilliant, as it set a lot of people up to experience strong bleed when it came to the final boss fight. Instead of "My character would really want to kill the Lich King because he's seen his friends get mind-controlled" it was "I really want to kill the Lich King because I've seen my beloved character get mind-controlled". The adrenaline spike you got from that was pretty handy since the Lich King fight was very long and pretty tough.

[@carloscaro9121]

Would you guys consider an examination of bleed in table top role-playing games? I can think of several which attempt various ways to bridge the mind set from player to character and focus a lot more on role-playing rather than combat or power fantasy. I'd like to hear your thoughts on strategies, mechanics, pitfalls, and outcomes in RPGs with bleed. The punishingly difficult bleed in playing a Shadow in Wraith comes immediately to mind as an example, and I know James has some familiarity based on his discussion of Charnal Houses of Europe. There were many others.

[@DuranmanX]

I remember acting like a cowboy after I completed Red Dead Redemption 2

[@TomcribbLemon]

Shooting horses?

[@knoqturne6811]

I've been thinking about the ties between the games I play and my emotional state interacting with one another too. I often find I want to be in the "right" mood for one thing or another, or at least not in the "wrong" one in order to enjoy it. As an example, if I feel low on energy, I'm more likely to go for Civilization than Gungeon, and if I do well, I feel a bit more at peace with the outside world. There are other games, though, that surprise you, by implying they'll feel one way, then twisting your emotions another, like a game you thought was a cliche yet charming dating sim/virtual novel suddenly turning into a metafictional existential horror game, or a game whose atmosphere you love turning out to have more emotional depth than you expected. I'd be up for an episode over these kinds of surprises if you made it. Quick note: Ali R Thome did a great job with this ep's art. It conveys well, with some fun gags spliced in as well. But I think the horse from Shadow of the Colossus is actually named Agro.

[@menethemene1555]

Sees the thumbnail Me : wait is that Duckhunt

[@blitz4506]

Mene The mene No...that's Banjo-Kazooie

[@kimnamjoon3331]

I don't know why people find history boring. It's so interesting .

[@Bacchasnail]

*Matt*: "Many of us have been... betrayed and has lost friends." *Me*: Why. Why must you hurt me like this????

[@abcdef27669]

"You can't get emotionally involved playing Call of Duty". Dimitri Petrenko. Chernov. "Soap" Mac Tavish. Ghost. "Roach". Victor Reznov. Alex Mason. Did I need to continue the list?

[@robonerd125]

1:11 Assuming you're referencing Shadow of the Colossus, the horse's name was Agro, not Argo.

[@Tigersight0]

Oh shit that's right. I got the reference, but didn't realize the name was spelled wrong. XD

[@TheCreepypro]

been experiencing this in rpgs for years glad other games are doing it as well now

[@skorp5677]

Please show this to all the parties in an argument about killer games

[@Raganui]

It's funny, a lot of time, I don't get into the emotions of characters normally... except for when I am attributing some emotions myself. Like the achievement and feeling of pride when I defeated Alduin, followed by standing on the Throat of the World in solemn silence, contemplating.

[@urkhmullerbach4595]

i can not get into a debate anymore without feeling like danganronpa character

[@aarontwisted951]

"No, that's wrong!" "..." "I mean, I don't share your opinion..."

[@TheMightyBic]

Supergiant games does this so well

[@superdizzy6416]

Nice video - I've had a similar experience with XCOM. When playing that game, I like to pace around in the living room which honestly makes me feel like a commander. Plus, the slight pain I felt when one of my characters in that game made me contemplate what its like to be a military commander in real life losing real people.

[@Planeseeker]

To the Moon. All the feels.

[@spikejoseph5482]

LISA THE PAINFUL is the game that defines bleed for me. Such a masterfully crafted game!