Blood of the Other 3: Eldric Shadowchaser

Matching text to this podcast:
lucifermeansli...
Time to take all that Stark / Dayne / last hero stuff and apply it to characters who fit the stolen Other archetype! This means all the Eldric variants of Houses Stark and Dayne, including Edric Snowbeard and Edric "Ned" Dayne, plus a ton of awesome Davos stuff, including his chapter as a prisoner if the Wolf's Den at White Harbor. Close analysis of the scenes involving these figures bring us closer than ever before to understanding the nature of those who carry the Blood of the Other, the fine folks we know as House Stark.
Robert from In Deep Geek returns to perform the readings from the text, and thanks as always to Stanley Black for our intro music and John Walsh for our flamenco guitar music.
Cover art: "Elric of Melnibone / Stealer of Souls" by John Picacio www.johnpicacio...
/ indeepgeek

[@ArjunaJoshua1]

When David repeats the phrase "When Bran was inside Summer", I always think "Giggity!" in my mind. Damn Family Guy for making my mind think like this.

[@PabloAlvestegui]

I too am really looking forward to your upcoming Ned Stark and Winterfell episode, and the Q&A session. I love it that you have Robert doing the reading, I think his voice (and accent) are ideal for the job.

[@vurtigoneiii275]

Two essays in three days. You're spoiling us rotten, LML. You know something, as long as you keep writing these essays I won't care how long it takes GRRM to release TWOW. P.S. Trying to get my Patreon sorted soon, to say thanks for all the hard work, but I've had to get my old VISA card renewed. I'm not living in the west any more and I use Union Pay now, which Patreon doesn't accept.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

Vurtigone III however long it takes him if you don't take time things like the last two seasons of the show happen

[@DavidLightbringer]

Right on Vurtigone. Like I was saying above. these 2 were one big episode that grew too large and got split, and I just didn't want a big break between them for sake of continuity of thought. I will probably chill for a couple weeks tho after the livestream.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

Lucifer means Lightbringer however much time you need by the way is this page yours www.davidbeersfiction.com are you the author of the singularity heretics I might buy it if it is yours

[@vurtigoneiii275]

When's the livestream?

[@DavidLightbringer]

Next Saturday at 3:00 EST

[@szymonitaherrero9737]

Lucifer for Easter is exactly what I need 😍

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Haha - my 8yr old (who always listens along with me) loved the one eye, one horn, flying purple people eater reference - he's gone off to listen to it now 😂😂

[@DavidLightbringer]

LoL. I knew there was a good reason to try to avoid swearing... I had the feeling some people listen with kids around. Helpful to know. :)

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Well occasional swearing when required is absolutely fine 😄

[@djbigleg3228]

the thing is in a few months your be saying i can swear im an adult but you cant your a child lol,i notice you crank up a bit of reverb now & again sounds good adds more atmosphere.im a guitarist i love spring reverb & old guitar amps & effects.tape echo is a blinding effect you can get any instrument or vocal to repeat at a fast rate with a speed button when you crank up the echo button it oscillate,s into a new sound.it was used a lot in the 60s but today its used mainly in dub reggae.i use it on single notes mainly new digital echo pedals are weak in comparison great post..

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Thankyou for my name - I love it 💜💚💙 And I love the 'milk brother from an other mother' 😂

[@DavidLightbringer]

haha, great! I thought you would like it. That section title is credit to @emilio Camacho Erice, so all credit to him

[@kimberlygl36]

wow another amazing p/c ...cant wait for the next one , and the l/s next weekend !! on my calendar..thanks for all you do

[@DavidLightbringer]

well, don't complain if aI take a couple weeks off, haha. Truth is that these 2 episodes were part of one essay that got split and I just didn't want to have a big break between them.

[@scarybat2076]

On the topic of snow hair, there's also a Child of the Forest nicknamed Snowylocks in ADWD, for what it's worth. They're the one who brings the weirwood paste to Leaf.

[@PabloAlvestegui]

Ha, ha, loved those first 5 words. LOL

[@DavidLightbringer]

Yeah yeah just trying to be funny :)

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

Lucifer means Lightbringer more than trying being

[@searingabyss6543]

One second in and i'm already laughing my ass off. Gonna be a good one

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

This is more than what I deserve, but it is what I truly need

[@adamlewis9597]

2nd episode of the day...couldn't think of a better way to spend my day off.....

[@btaybreadtastic]

I look great in golden fetters. This Q&A will be glorious. VORIAN FOREVER!

[@calikal1968]

Oh yes.... wake up late, drink my coffee, then check the mail... and yes that notification! Have a lovely Holidays!

[@thunderclap7154]

Thank you for another stellar episode. I may of discovered some connections you’ll have to let me know. Davos Hand of the king inside the Wolf’s den located at the Mouth of the river. With Davos already loosing his fingers and the criminal having his head and hands taken in Davos’s place. Is the Tyr and Fenrir myth from Norse mythology? You also asked if there was some symbolism for Pycelle try this. 1: Long white beard 2: Fat round belly 3: Long red robes with white trim Pycelle pushed himself to his feet. He was clad in a magnificent robe of thick red velvet, with an ermine collar and shiny gold fastenings. 4: visits children in the middle of the night. Means Pycelle has creepy Santa Claus symbolism.

[@MrBrachiatingApe]

Tyr and Fenrir are Norse myths, yep--I know this is an old comment, but you raised an interesting if slightly out-of-focus connection. I say that last because Davos's sacrifice here wasn't exactly willing nor done on behalf of others, exactly. But it is interesting, certainly.

[@stevenclayton4624]

Great as always David

[@archmaesteremma1883]

Awesome episode as usual! Thoughts on the bonus section: Edric Snowbeard is given the same moniker ("The Old King") as Jaehaerys I, who also had a snowbeard (a long white flowing beard, according to the wiki). "His grandson Viserys once told his grandchildren a tale of Jaehaerys flying north to defeat a vast host of wildlings, giants, and wargs at the Wall." (which makes Jaehaerys sound like an Eldric figure). Jaehaerys was also said to grow feeble and weak in his old age, another parallel to Edric. The "new king", Brandon Ice Eyes, Edric's great-grandson. And it is Jaehaerys' great-grandchildren, Rhaenys and Aegon, who have the great (half)-sibling civil war, the Dance of the Dragons (which brings us back to your Bael episode). This parallel could imply that Brandon got himself the kingdom with a bit of kinslaying, potentially, which could then imply Brandon as a NK Bael type. It also *technically* doesn't mention that Brandon freed the slaves, just that Brandon gave the slavers to the slaves. This could provide an alternative reading that suggests the slavers were just added to the ranks of the slaves - this could be something akin to the AA-types being over thrown by a NK-type, then killed and added to the ranks of the dead, or somthing like that. The Bloodstone Emperor did practice slavery himself, which may or may not be a reference to NK type ensorcelling, depending on how overlapped the AA/NK mythos is. Lastly I just wanted to point out a second bit of ambiguity with regards to whose entrails are being hung on the trees: "It’s said they* hung their* entrails in the branches of the heart tree, as an offering to the gods." Who are the theys? The slaves and the slavers as is implied? The slaves hanging Brandon Stark's armies in the trees? The slaves offering *themselves* to the trees in an Odin-esque self-sacrifice?? (References/parallels to the Faceless Men and the House of Black and White could be drawn with this last option, especially given that White Harbour is like a city of black and white, with almost matching statues.) Anyway, thanks again for the awesome episode, I'm sure I'll have more thoughts about the ep as I relisten to it over the next week or so. Thought I'd comment on YT this time, because Twitter character limits did not seem conducive to this length of reply. Have a lovely Easter weekend!

[@archmaesteremma1883]

In addition to this: The winter isn't mentioned as ending after Brandon takes the Wolf's Den, which is what you would expect after the Last Hero's victory. This is potentially another hint that Brandon is more of a NK figure than a LH one.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

Hey I forgot but thanks for using my sentence LML

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

Thank You!

[@alysaneblackwood]

Enjoy these podcasts soooooo much. I' d love to hear your thoughts on Catelyns symbolism especially the veins/rivers and branches/arms she seems to focus on these kind of symbols as her greif steadily consumes her.

[@Stephen_Curtin]

Turin was not an Elf 😁 Since Ned and his companions at the TOJ represent the nights watch fighting the Others, does Howland saving Ned give us any clues as to what went on in the original war for the dawn?

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Stephen Curtin it does invite that sort of speculation doesn't it - we should be on the lookout for Jon in a similar situation in the future.

[@amberantk1]

Very much in line with Tolkien's 3rd (or 5th) force arrival at every battle.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I would think it's a parallel to the last hero receiving "help from the children of the forest" during his quest!

[@Stephen_Curtin]

Lucifer means Lightbringer Ah see now why didn't I think of that. that makes sense. For what it's worth I think that Brandon ice eyes seems like a Nights King type character.

[@btaybreadtastic]

Lucifer means Lightbringer for sure. Me thinks the CoF taught the art of skinchanging, and either Howland or Ned did something very abominable at the TOJ to best Mr. Dayne.

[@mejecam]

For symmetry's sake, one can imagine we are getting set up for an epic "blood of the dragon" parallel story to "the blood of the other". Given all of the celestial symbolism so far, one could imagine a "Prometheus stealing fire" setup like this: 1. The son of the sun and fire moon is sent to earth (symbolized perhaps by a meteor that only nicks the moon and then hits Earth)... perhaps appearing on Earth as a firey talking tree/bush/weirwood, not to be too on the nose. 2.This symbolism of the mixing of fire and earth with a meteorite hitting earth may be reinforced by a "children of the forest" "Nissa Nissa" figure being sacrificed/wighted/impregnated by this tree-- this could be the start of the line of the Empire of the Dawn kings, and the start of "kings blood" having a connection to fire magic. 3.Perhaps even, one of the bloodline, like the Amethyst Empress, was rescued/kidnapped by a human. It would be a very neat way to call back to the Prometheus story of stealing fire from the gods to give to humanity, and fit the other tropes in the story so far. Bonus! 4. Given all of the allusions of some Targaryen babies coming out twisted and dragonlike, perhaps a similar ritual to the one Melisandre performed with Stannis, done by a fire moon maiden, makes dragons! ...making Dany’s title as “Mother of Dragons” an echo of the creation of the first dragons... 5. All of the references to Stannis as a grey king could be a hint that the rescuer figure who stole the fire baby was the Grey King of the Ironborn himself and that he was grey because his soul was being used to father dragons.

[@williamhermann6635]

If some guy who killed the Lord of your house and caused the maiden of your house to commit suicide, would you name the heir of your house after this guy and have one of your maids breastfeed the child this guy is carrying? Doesnt make much sense. There's definitely something were not being told here. As honorable as Ned is, there's no way the Dayne's would've been this receptive of him. I know i would've had my sword across my knees if i was in that situation.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

William Hermann he gave them allyria dayne and kept the secret that she was from ashara keep in mind they're Stony dornisman and that might have been a dishonor for them

[@williamhermann6635]

Emilio Camacho Erice i like the theory, but how could Ned have Ashara's child in his possession if Ashara was at Starfall the entire time? Thats kinda what i was hinting at with theres something big were not being told.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

William Hermann ashara is said to be at Starfall we don't know if she truly was

[@williamhermann6635]

Emilio Camacho Erice I dont believe she was at Starfall. As weve discussed previously, im in the N+A=J camp. I think Ashara was in White Harbor during the entirety of Robert's rebellion.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

William Hermann well I'm r+l=j but I don't think she was with Brandon either she could have had a thousand brandons in dorne or the mountain Brandon with brains (from my personal experiences they don't end up with the awkward (me) nor with the one who can't keep his cock in his pants) the one that Dishonored her doesn't have to be a stark, the part of he looked to stark was he asked ned for help instead of me what barristan knows can be thanks to ned he told him the rumor version he was fabricating and that's why we see barristan so fond of ned stark

[@richardwithanarr]

25:30 you mention Tormund's hair (now white) used to be "kissed by fire hair" and I want to know where that's referenced. I'm like 90% sure that him being a redhead is a show only detail. Nitpicking a single detail on a video from over 2 years ago and asking for the reference of that singular statement in a book series with more words than the bible? You betcha I am! (I have the belief that only redheads get to become fire wights)

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

21:31 Holy fuck.. the wicked man symbolism

[@kimberlygl36]

awesome !!!!!!!!

[@dianneheathcoe6974]

Ned Stark's mother is Lyara. Google it. Love your program.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Dianne Heathcoe nice! More NQ baby symbolism for Ned! Ill shout you out on the livestream on Thursday!

[@mistersharpe4375]

All this symbolism involving dragons trapped in ice... To me it brings to mind the Arthurian myths. Many old hero tales seem to imply a sort of connection between warrior-kings and dragons. King Arthur himself can literally be said to be descended from a dragon himself, being the son of the violent and lustful Uther Pendragon, and Arthur is often depicted struggling with these qualities inherited from his father. Many of these old hero tales imply some sort of connection between warrior-kings and dragons. Medieval christian stories depict dragons behaving like despotic tyrants, jealously guarding hoards of gold which it has no use for and demanding tributes in young women. These are opposed to depictions of heroic warrior-kings who are charitable and defend their people such as King Beowulf. King Arthur himself could even be said to descend from a dragon; being the son of the violent and lustful Uther Pendragon, whom Arthur unwittingly emulates when his own "dragon's blood" shows itself (such as his lust producing the inbred Mordred). There's even a fantastic painting of King Arthur meeting the Lady of the Lake, in which Arthur's surcoat shows a red dragon on white, a dragon trapped in ice, while his helmet bears two red dragon wings just to drive home the inherent devilish qualities of the warrior-king. This is why the medieval romances were so obsessed with knights rescuing maidens from dragons. They wanted to drive home the point that an honourable knight is a man who nurtures his empathetic, feminine qualities against his own wild, dragon-like nature which happens to be the source of his strength.

[@sprounzit6487]

That first sentence 😂😂😂

[@DavidLightbringer]

heh heh heh

[@rica314]

A question which has nothing do with the essay, but I somehow got the feeling that you like interpretating names :P Do you have any good idea about the "Alexanders"? House Florent is full of "Alexanders" for some reason, but there are also some other interesting characters as Sandor Clegane, Alliser Thorne or Mel"isandre"

[@jojoladydayne7311]

The Bloodstone pirates remind me of Euron and his slave crew - could Euron get the Sword Nightfall with it's moonstone pommel from the Harlaws and wield it as a black sword? I know it sounds crazy but I've always had it in my head that Euron is an Azor Ahai figure & that he might do something to start the long night with his BSE reborn stuff - but that he might turn it around somehow or perhaps that might be Theon helping Jon to depose him.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

JoJo Lady Dayne euron is a bloodstone figure (probably also the first Azor ahai)) he's the one character trying to steal the fire of the gods

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Emilio Camacho Erice - yeah I get that but I always wondered if he'd turn it around in the end to be some sort of hero - but listening to LML & the fact that it could be different generations or a bloodline thing - I'm re-evaluating that thought & looking more to Theon as the 'make it right again' person of that particular example of AA.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

JoJo Lady Dayne if he accidentally defeats the others or if he does it because it serves his plans he can be remembered as a hero

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Good point Emilio 💜

[@DavidLightbringer]

So I think he's showing us AA the fire-stealer becoming the NK, hence all the "Others" wordplay around the drowned men and Euron's ships, the blue eye and the symbolism of shade of the evening flowing in to an ice moon face. Europa (Euron, Europa) is an actual ice moon, which I think is no accident. I'd look for his and his horn to play a role, symbolic or maybe even literal, in bringing on the new LN and the invasion of the others. I tend to doubt he'll do anything helpful, but like Emilio said, it could happen accidentally. Theon, as a stolen Other baby and an honorary Stark and a Grey King parallel seems like the guy to make things right on the Islands, perhaps.

[@kimberlygl36]

owe man .....but we will miss you

[@TuathaTuna]

Too good!

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

Is LML's favorite Pokemon move Draco meteor ?

[@HighFantasyChannel]

I have a theory that the female white walker that the night king saw was in fact the Great Other. Think about it. Rhllor and the Great Other, fire and ice, life and death, yang and yin, male and female. Could the long night have been cause by the reversal of these roles? Nissa Nissa, an ice queen, turned mother of dragons, Azor Ahai, a solar king, turned into the night’s king, taking a tiger woman (Child of the Forest) for his wife, becoming the father of wolves. Could the long night have happened, and the seasons thrown out of balance, because of this reversal of roles, fire becoming ice and ice becoming fire? And what does that say about Jon, Daenerys, and Bran?

[@archmaesteremma1883]

Another thought as promised. You briefly mentioned Gendry as a rescued child figure, but you didn't mention where he was rescued from - his apprenticeship with Tobho Mott. (Nod to The Thing that Came in the Night steal prentice boys here.) Tobho Mott is saturated with icy symbolism (some examples I've mentioned to you before that might be handy to whip out in the livestream as evidence if you choose to use this message). 1) he lives and works on Visenya's Hill, prime ice moon symbol 2) he forges armour for Loras Tyrell that has blue forget me nots (think "Promise me Ned") made of sapphires that wink in the sun (implying the sapphire eyes of the Others) 3) he wears a silver necklace with a massive sapphire pendant the size of an egg - potentially suggesting his 3rd eye as one of ice, hung round his neck like the albatross in the Rime of the Ancient Mariner. 4) his forge is like a dragon, hidden in the ice moon hill - the dragon locked in ice. 5) tobho mott can rework Valyrian steel ie he has magical abilities. (As an aside, could Tobho Mott's magical forging ability be potential evidence in favour of NK smithing Dawn?) So, we first meet Gendryin the clutches of an ice magician. Ned is actually the first person to try to rescue Gendry from Tobho Mott, by offering Gendry a place in service to Winterfell. That's the King of Winter trying to steal a child from an ice figure. Then gendry goes with the NW and then ends up with the BWB, knighted by Beric himself. All obvious rescued child stuff there. Final note - stretching Gendry's name here. Gendry - Endry - Endric - Eldric?? That's all for now :) Again, thanks for producing such awesome content! :)

[@victoriasantoro6692]

from witch movie is that intro?ITS EPIC

[@DavidLightbringer]

Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Its the music when they find the grail castle at the very end. It's the music I've always wanted, but I had to wait until i could pay for the rights.

[@GG89x]

Good choice.

[@annaarwen4345]

Would Jon be considered a kind of flaming sword uncle to Monster considering he Jon and Sam are 'brothers'

[@armyofninjas9055]

Just a small point of clarity about Odin symbolism: Odin wasn't unique for the ability to use magic. He was different because he was a MAN that could use magic. Women were considered the keepers of magic--not men. Make of that what you will.

[@cbob213]

So wouldn't John stabbing Danny mean that he fails the "test" that Davos passes. Davos being a dragon locked in ice, but passing the test is surely a clue...

[@victoriasantoro6692]

Jon i think is actually the Prince that Was Promised and the Lightbringer/aka lifebringer ...the one that brings life

[@williamhermann6635]

My Jolly Sailor Bold i have some tinfoil here....bear with me....the repetetive theme throughout the books is that many wars and conflicts end in marriage. And since the others are back, we know they couldnt have been completely defeated. So what ended the first long night? I believe it was a marriage offering which leads me to my main point/theory: I believe Dany is the princess that was promised in that she will either be offered up for marriage to the others or she will sacrifice herself to the others and become Night's Queen in order to end this coming Long Night. It checks all the boxes in my view.

[@victoriasantoro6692]

i have heard that theory countless time 7 years now..[from S1 almost]..With Dannys confirmed pregnancy and kid i just see that not happen [or either the nissa nissa bullshit theory]..I think she who will offer herself to the others or will sacrifice herself to them or for AA is Mellisandra or Cercei ..There is a WW Mellisandra doll in GRRM collection and Cercei might offer herself and her unborn baby to the NK so to make an alliance with him..giving her stillborn baby as a sacrifice and becomes his NQ..Danny will live enought to give birth to her living son with Jon S8E6 in the last last scene and will die actually years later after the war is end.She needed to be alive in the end ..for to give birth to Jons living child and to be his legitimate queen..Other female characters [except of Gilly and Arya]such as Sansa ,Cercei ,Lyanna Mormont will not make it and Jon will have no other choice but to marry Danny and to make her his queen..continue his legacy with that way..She needs to live in the end ..otherwise there cannot bittersweet ending...just bittertragic.

[@williamhermann6635]

My Jolly Sailor Bold youre talking about the show, im talking about the books. And everything LML does here in his podcasts are based on books only. No need to get rude and curse at me. This stuff is supposed to be fun and thought provoking, not cause division and confrontation. This is fantasy fiction, not politics.

[@shavedata5436]

It's a cool idea but I just don't see it. I like the Lucifer idea a lot more. I think Danny is the prince that was promised (Summerhall > Rhaegar > Danny > Dragons) but I don't think Martin will end asoiaf with Targaryen restoration and dead bad guys. Human sacrifice probably isn't the solution, and there for Azor Ahai isn't gonna solve everyone's problems

[@victoriasantoro6692]

Jon Snow=The Prince that was Promised/Father/Odin/Zeus/Wolf ...Danny=Azor Ahai/Mother/Freya/Athena/Dragon and Bran=Last Hero/Crone/Heimdal/Hermes /Raven=3 heads of the Dragon

[@kccody7278]

Algorithm gods here you go.

[@cullysloy2705]

The God of Many Faces, the Lord of Light and the Werewoods could be all be members of the Old Ones. The Video of Jaqen H'gar describing the many faced god helps this theory.

[@bgmmaine]

Stark-itype.

[@Slechy_Lesh]

1:39:00

[@michaeltavizon8333]

🎉🎉🎉

[@insightsman196]

I know when you bring someone back they are not the same, and they seem to lose bits of them self the more times, or depending on how long they have died they my lose who they where, like lady stoneheart, but of the two characters brought back , beside patch face , Danderian and Lady Stark they don't seem to have wolf or dragon dreams, or they don't have an active magic blood Gene of skin changer, Jon snow does, his mind should be fine inside the body of his Direwolf, tho the longer he remains warged into him the more he takes on the animal's characteristics , so I don't think we will see the same Jon , plus the manner of his death , I think the boy will die so the man can be born, or the man will become a wolf and then a man again, thought I read that somewhere, as a wilding foretelling ? can't remember lol it may have been in the show and not a book reference, but what Aemon said stuck with me, wish he had got his book ending, but guess they can't go by boat and make a few pit stops on the way , not with 8 seasons and the last two with less episodes than the other seasons, I regress, great video again so much information and it truly shows how much work you put into your videos, and how much you love The song of ice and fire books 👏👏 round of applause for you go sir

[@shavedata5436]

Turin.. was not an elf *DUN Dun DUUUUUN*

[@Slechy_Lesh]

54:30

[@meagantesterman]

Einhorn and Finkle Finkle and Einhorn