BMW EV owners furious over $31,000 - $71,000 Battery Replacement costs

[@Nepomuc]

this crazy battery issue keeps me away for considering purchasing a E V

[@robertfonovic3551]

Yep. Reassuring isn't it.

[@marklihsu]

And a lot of other people agree with you hence the sharp decline of EV demand

[@cbcdesign001]

Its not just what they are doing to consumers. With their rip off replacement battery pack prices they are seriously hampering the used EV market and pushing lease prices up due to expected depreciation so they are actively damaging the whole EV market.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

That is the dealer's plan. They want to stop people from buying EVs as they make no service money on them.

[@rayman4449]

I guess there are still lots of people out there that still don't know about why you don't want to buy European cars. They EXTORT you on repair part costs. Ever wonder why you see $125,000 Mercedes in car lots for $15,000 (or seemingly crazy cheap prices)? Because they are beyond insane to fix them.

[@pgiatrakis]

Absolutely and it’s kinda sad to see a new beautiful Mercedes Benz with flickering lights and electrical problems. I found out that the insulation on the wiring is made from soybean oil and rodents love it. They are aware and continue to make the cars vulnerable in these ways to make money and keep the repair workers employed.

[@baldisaerodynamic9692]

and a hyundai battery is $50k. so whats your point?

[@neilkurzman4907]

I guess there’s still lots of people out there who don’t know why you would want to buy an electric vehicle. They keep exchanging old outdated and incorrect information pretending like calendars don’t work. I’m sure their ancestors were yelling at a horse at those driving gasoline cars.

[@MRT-co1sd]

Chinese companies guarantees batteries for 8-10 years. No replacement cost.

[@sparkytas]

Yeah, I used to repair appliances and I had to quote repairs on a 3 year old Miele induction cooktop (purchase price AUD$4k). There were 3x PCBs (printed circuit boards) in it, a power filter board and 2x induction driver boards. In their case the power filter board ($1.8k) and one of the induction driver boards ($2.2k) were faulty. To repair it including labour was more expensive than a new one. Meanwhile the Chinese "Euromaid" was only $500 for the equivalent parts that Miele were charging $4k for. The lesson is ALL European brands take you to the cleaners for spare parts. And Chinese electronics have come a long way. They may often be as good a quality, and if they're slightly less, they're a ton cheaper to buy and repair. They don't always have the support though.

[@nottmfunguy]

I bought a battery hedge trimmer to replace the petrol one, we have a sizeable garden, it now takes me 3 times longer to do the job, I even have a spare battery too. So if I regret buying a battery powered hedge trimmer, imagine my regret if I had bought an EV, I don't know how you guys deal with all of this.

[@willeisinga2089]

NIO Battery Swapp is the Solution. No Battery Issues. Car Battery Separation. Standard Battery for All Cars. You Change the Battery All the Time. No repair Bills. I wait for NIO SwapNGo Stations in the EU.

[@flukeylukey7559]

Exactly, UK soon, Oz in 25 hopefully. Many other Auto makers join NIO battery swap soon. China and the EU are going to demand regular checks of battery, which happens in the swap stations. Other countries will probably follow suit.

[@timconder4909]

Coming from a family of lifetime mechanics, the frustrating thing to us is all the electronics on not only electric cars but ICE vehicles as well. Problems like the one you’re illustrating here suck. At the level tech and manufacturing is now the mechanical/materials that make up current vehicles are good for hundreds of thousands of miles. The electronics however are complicated, frequently outdated/discontinued and degrade over time which render a perfectly good vehicle useless at worst and annoying at best. The problems are confounding. They are often non-repairable or affordable by the average diy folks and can be an expensive challenge even to honest, pro shops. I personally love the I3 but as an analog old car person keeping this thing on the road requires I become both a hardware AND software guy. I’m sure there are electric custom shops out there being born as we speak who have the chops to fit a custom refurbished pack to the I3 and many other bitchin’ electric cars to improve and get the max life out of them. I wish I was one of them!

[@mikef888au1]

Hi Sam, I think someone is pulling your leg. Although the invoice looks real, it is only a quote. I just checked the part number, and it's available in Silver Springs, Maryland US, for just under $4500USD with a $980 discount currently....so that's $36K for 8 modules, a lot less than the invoice for $64K then sales tax.......then again maybe Seattle is pricey! Great video, thanks!

[@nickmcconnell1291]

Ah but flying out their one guy from Germany who is trained on BMW battery replacements, costs money!

[@capnkirk5528]

Individual dealerships (especially in the US or Canada) can be VERY anti-EV, and may set prices that discourage or punish anyone with the temerity to move into the 21st Century. I reference my experience trying to buy a Chevy Volt (I ended up with an ICE Kia) because the salespeople were openly hostile to me for wanting a car with a plug.

[@KidHorn7001]

Still too much.

[@justinr9753]

They don't have stockpile of batteries, price them high so it mechanically totals car

[@williamboyle8918]

With an msrp of 45 -52. 37 is nutso.

[@kimguy4159]

They should pay folks to take those EVs

[@robertfonovic3551]

Or any EV

[@martinwinlow]

Tesla do exactly the same thing (ask me how I now) - charging thousands (and I mean *thousands*) for what may simply down to a loose wire. Their service centres will simply *not* open the HV pack and so they all have to go...? somewhere - the US maybe? Anyway, I wonder if they are just forcing the arrival of independent repairers so Tesla can concentrate on making EVs - which is where the money is, unlike ICEVs - completely the reverse, in fact. Indy's are indeed growing in number (in the UK at least, and the US I see) as we speak.

[@KungPowEnterFist]

This is why PHEV's are the better technology. If you drive lots of local miles your ICE gets hardly used at all and adds many years to its useful lifetime. When its time to change the battery, its only a fraction of the cost of an EV battery. In the mean time its as cheap to run in the city as an EV, and on the highway its much, much cheaper to run.

[@robertfonovic3551]

And the market agrees with you you.

[@KungPowEnterFist]

@@robertfonovic3551 Take away the government bailouts of the EV industry and we'll see who is right.

[@marklihsu]

Not really my old volt that I got cpo had 1 of the three battery packs failed after a few months of ownership. If it wasn't for the warranty would have been $13k. That was how much I paid for the car. Luckily was able to get rid of it after the battery replacement during the crazy car market.

[@PupGarment]

I'm currently dealing with a frustrating issue. My BMW i3 is stuck in park and won't budge. BMW informed me that the cost for a battery replacement could reach up to $30,000. As a result, my car is immobilized while I continue to make payments on it. If anyone has any leads on someone who could assist in the Atlanta area, I would greatly appreciate it. Kudos to Sam for bringing attention to this matter.

[@jonathantaylor1998]

I'm sorry if this sounds like a 'glib' suggestion - it's not meant to be. Have you checked / replaced the car's 12v battery recently? A surprisingly large number of seemingly 'major faults' on EVs stem from simply the car shutting down essential componentry due to a failure of the standard 12v battery - replace that and, more often, the car springs back to life.

[@flaviandd]

And again we are back at modular batteries and repairable batteries. At the moment for example KIA/Hyundai offer batteries that can be easy to fix, with cheap modules at 200-300 USD for a 2.4 KHWh module. There are a total of 32 modules for a 77KWh pack and they are easy to find on the SH market. The cooling is on the bottom, modules are easy to extract, the battery is not sealed or glued with foam, you have a rubber gasket that can be easy to replace in case of need. Even more, the battery design is 800V it charges quite fast, especially in EU or CN, where the charging format war never happened as in US. They also offer V2L and that should be a no brainer for any EV owner to ask for.

[@flaviandd]

This will also affect the insurance costs a lot in the future, especially with tsla battery cheap crap selling like crazy. I hope the EU wakes up and they will implement some minimum requirements for this. It's not normal to scrap the whole car for a small dent in the battery that we should be able to fix easy by replacing just the battery cover or the few cells that were damaged. I've seen quotes for batteries that were more than the entire car. Some dealers take advantage of this for now, but on the future this will increase costs a lot if nothing is done about it. I'm sure that a way can be found, if they managed to force Apple the change a stupid charging port, this is orders of magnitude more important to regulate.

[@flaviandd]

It's not the same if you can fix it with by replacing a 200 EUR module or you need to pay 10.000 EUR or more for an entire sealed battery. The SH market will become significant and people will need to learn what is a good designed battery that can be repaired easily in case some cells go bad or a rock damages it. The 150.000km warranty that most producers offer goes fast, sometimes in just 3-4 years. After that, being able to service your car battery at a decent price becomes critical. Unfortunately with reviewers totally ignoring this repair aspect things move too slow. And until then a lot of crappy sealed batteries cars will be sold, especially from tsla that this channel also praises a lot. Not good. Not good.

[@gildasarnaud-gallin596]

So why repairing battery on ioniq5 seems to bé very expensive ?

[@jrherita]

You missed the two Canadians that form quoted for new packs for their Ioniq 5s that were more than the price of a new car.

[@MichaelGreenLagos]

So Tesla with its glue in battery are going to be a big problem when they go wronge and can not be fix by any one don't buy a Tesla unless it's got a LFP battery

[@bigwhimsy2236]

Love your show, and I agree BMW dealerships way over charge. We call it the "go away" price. It seems they can make money faster by selling you a new car, rather than fixing your old EV. they Sometimes they don't have someone qualified to work on an EV. One correction I should point out is you can't replace a single cell of an i3. it was designed so you can replace a "module" of 16 cells that are glued together and in a structurally important aluminum case. I can put a tested 94ah battery from a salvage 2018 i3 into 2014 with a tired 60ah, and double it's range for $6000 and yet I still don't have a waiting list in the USA!

[@petergill2265]

According to Sam, batteries are extremely reliable, rarely if ever fail, last for far more miles than IC engines & are thus far less costly. But make sure you have lots of warranty left, despite all of the previous adulations?

[@jamessmyth5949]

Oh yeah, right the batteries are supposedly extremely reliable, last longer than an ICE engine, rarely ever fail. That is until they do and you're up for big dollars all in one hit. And probably according to Sam if you throw a stone up in the air it'll no doubt float away in the breeze it won't come crashing down to earth. Keep believing the bullshit.

[@st4849]

Hyundai/KIA is doing the same. Cars are simply being totalled if the owner hits something on the road that damages the battery. I think the logistics of replacing batteries are just not there yet. Not seriously accounted for by manufacturers.

[@franciscoshi1968]

Call OZDIY in Australia. If the demand is enough he will make a battery replacement option. He already has done a few different models. In all cases you get more range than the original battery pack.

[@robertfonovic3551]

Is he related to Seba? 😅😅😅

[@graemetunbridge1738]

Because the battery cells are welded together and potted/glued into a large monolithic structure, it is difficult to identify and replace the bad cell. Future designs will hopefully be more modular and easy to service.

[@tqlla]

IMO, battery packs need to be standardized, to avoid this nonsense. Just like we have a AA, AAA, C, D.... etc batteries. Until then, these are throw away vehicles.

[@philiptaylor7902]

Shame that BMW are trying to rip customers off for battery replacements on the i3. I test drove one of these a couple of years back, they are actually great little cars and the later versions had a decent range - it's a shame BMW discontinued them. They will be a classic in 20 years time.

[@10secondsrule]

I really like the way they look but I think in 20 years time they will not be able to drive with these batteries.

[@chestercheng75]

EV cars will never be a classic.. Tell me which battery devices you still keep as classic?

[@tomtaylor9217]

sorry, but an i3 battery has 8 MODULES (not cells). Each MODULE has 12 CELLS. Basic battery terminology is important. Also, keep in mind that replacement batteries, modules, or cells cannot be made in advance and stored in a warehouse. They will degrade just sitting there. So, when you need a battery module for an 8 year old car, it will essentially have to be custom made (unless it happens to be the same as current production which is highly unlikely). Even a new EV that needs a battery module means diverting one from the production line. All of this adds cost. And sometimes when any vendor gives you an outrageous price for something, what they're really telling you is that they don't want to do it, but if you're willing to pay, they will. lastly, your battery warranty only guarantees ~70% of original capacity at the end of the warranty. The manufacturers have all the failure data for every component. If they could guarantee 75%,80%, or more, they would.

[@neilkurzman4907]

Actually, you can store lithium ion batteries for a couple of years as long as you take care of them properly.

[@HoneyH-Rock]

Wow this is unbelievable - what are the car companies doing ??? We are trying to save the planet.

[@Craystrider]

Quoted $38,000 today in Dallas. Waiting to hear if ProGuard warranty will cover it. Otherwise screwed.

[@maxdskidb]

How did it end up in the end? And what happened?

[@tombudetti5502]

This is why NIO with swappable batteries and battery lease option will prevail. Marry the car, date the battery 😬❤️

[@flukeylukey7559]

Sounds like a beautiful relationship. I China you can marry a NIO battery as well as date other batteries, not sure if you'll meet the battery you married again, she might not love you any more 😪

[@tombudetti5502]

@@flukeylukey7559 Yep, you can date a new battery every day depending on how much driving you do.

[@mangravy2000]

The law should be made where any battery of the same voltage can replace the OEM battery without any programing. This is the cause for insane insurance prices on EV's, the battery.

[@petergill2265]

No competition: you HAVE to buy an OEM battery. Using a repaired damaged battery as a replacement may be considered high risk & is not supported by some insurance companies (would you want a repaired battery?). Prices will remain high until there are alternatives, which given proprietary software doesn't appear likely.

[@muratoz2931]

Hey Sam, bro I love your channel and tune in all the time. Just a question. You got any other shirts? Maybe colour or floral, anything but white. Just saying 🤙🤙

[@ohumeid]

In Jordan we have a small company that imports CATL cells and they install a 45kwh batteries for rhe i3 for 8000 USD😂

[@李力-d2u]

For reference only: The current quotation for LFP batteries from CATL is 400CNY/KWH (55USD/KWH). Price is still falling. An EV car usually uses 60-100KWH batteries. the cost of batteries of an EV car is about 3300-5500USD only.

[@tonyireland2234]

Thats a good price.They usually cost more then the vehicle cost to buy.

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I lease my EV. This way battery repair falls on the dealer: not me. My white interior will be dingy in 3 years. They can deal with that too!

[@gammarisktrader1681]

i don't understand why don't they design all EV's with battery swap capabilities like what Telsa originally envisioned and what Nio is doing? they don't need to swap it for faster battery charging but basically for battery repairs.

[@flaviandd]

You do not need that really, if the battery is modular and a module is less that 500USD it should be easy to swap it in case of need. That is how Kia/Hundai are built. Some VW/Audi are also modular. Tesla is usually crap, sealed battery, straight to recycle bin for the entire pack. BMW is in the middle, some easy to repair, other sealed, depends on the model.

[@dylanthomas12321]

Battery swap is uneconomic at scale. You have to finance a large unused inventory and a vast chain of swap stations, on your own, since no other OEM is likely to follow. The US will soon have more battery charging stations than gas stations, in about 3 years.

[@KidHorn7001]

Tesla uses structural battery packs. The batteries are part of the frame. Might complicate things.

[@nguyep4]

​@reginald7214 NIO is losing so much money... it is likely swapping stations is losing a lot of money. Having more partnerships mean little if the whole system is not profitable. The upkeep is very high compared to charging station.

[@gammarisktrader1681]

@@KidHorn7001 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fma5YamCaNOhfrs

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

What we really need is STANDARDIZED BATTERY PACKS.

[@LovesTheGash]

Any after market options?

[@hebalott]

maby the chinese Starmax or another company will se a proffit in making one

[@KlausBoChristensen]

BMW i3 battery shows very low degradation in many tests. Check out Bjørn Nyland (Tesla Bjørn) who has tested the BMW i3 with both 60 and 120 Ah, cars that have driven 100-150,000 km which show 10% degradation for the smallest battery and an exceptional 2.5% after 155,000 km! which is the best result he has tested and much better than results from his tests with Tesla over several years.

[@stephensharp975]

I have a 2020 120ah bmw i3 with 130,000 kms, with no noticable degradation.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

It is not only causing issues with buyers confidence, but Insurance rates are through the roof as a direct result of this whole battery issue most notable in the UK but now sky high insurance issues are appearing in Canada. I see Hyundai is setting up special battery refurbishing centres in Australia according to your reporting.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

This proves that most current EV designs are antiquated. The current system is massively flawed. Anything without a swappable battery, I would not touch with a barge pole. The battery packs should be based on a standard by law. ( 4 sizes: small, medium, large and extra large ) That way you could shop around for battery packs. Just as you can shop around for regular batteries ( A, AA, AAA, C etc... ) They should be easy swap fit designs. That's the best way forward for the years ahead. The EV battery pack designs designs are currently inadequate. Taking my suggested approach would eliminate this concern in a free market. It then becomes the vehicle design, use and management of the battery pack that is a secondary field of industry competition. Basically you are freeing up the market place for EV batteries and not locking consumers into one type of battery manufacturer / supplier. All future vehicle designs should be based around the four EV battery size standards. The EVs we've seen so far are early entries testing the waters for EV prime time, which is yet to go full throttle. This is the perfect solution to this problem !!! Sorry but this is it !!! This is the way forward !!! 100% guaranteed !!!

[@JoeyBlogs007]

You could have a separate set of pack standards for heavier vehicles like trucks also, again (small, medium, large, extra large ) This would help streamline the industry.

[@RandyP-jr1ek]

That is idiotic when you consider the upfront cost of the car! Not everyone wants to buy a tiny $70k BMW with 50km range just to have the option of changing out the battery pack. Great idea, get government involved and screw up the entire cost structure of great cars like Tesla model Y; profitable by the way. No where in this presentation was the cost of a Tesla battery pack replacement mentioned by comparison. Give me incentives like $7500 for a refreshed model 3 and I’ll buy one tomorrow - unfortunately because of where the battery is made, that’s not likely.

[@erktrek]

Companies are amoral by definition (US legal "personhood" precedent notwithstanding) but a company's leaders - the officers and board may be immoral and the market will decide if this is the correct approach.

[@dandebbieminert5712]

Tip of the iceberg, get ready to pay for yours.

[@lowtech_1]

Canadian man quoted $50,000, for a battery for his 2019 Ioniq .

[@robertfonovic3551]

Who cares. There's a sucker born every day.

[@MaksimSSM]

Looks like people save much in EV mobility 😂

[@robertfonovic3551]

The only mobility is the movement of money from their bank accounts 😊

[@baldisaerodynamic9692]

some of the biggest issues with battery replacement is how they are made......and im not talking about the battery cells itself, its how everything is intergrated its like how you endorse and brag about how great this giga casting is.....news flash, its the same concept.

[@iandavies4853]

BMW are just super expensive to own. If you have to worry about cost of purchase or ownership, they don’t want you. Professionals can charge top dollar for any service, be it solicitor, surgeon, accountant.

[@johngatt5855]

Its not just ev owners that are being ripped off. I once owned a Mercedes ICE car and they wanted £2000 to replace a timing chain, a local engine speialist 6:58 replaced it for £500. Question is would Mercedes dealer done the same, had it replaced by 3rd party and pocketed £1500 ?. I made the mistake of buying a Merdes once, never again.

[@marklihsu]

No you just needed to find a good repair shop. Our family used to love driving Mercedes because we had a good honest mechanic that charged very good rates for everything.

[@EliotMcLellan]

I'VE GOT AN ELECTRIC CHAINSAW THAT MAKES IT ABOUT 1/8 OR 10TH THROUGH THE BAR OIL CHAMBER PER BATTERY-CHARGE WHICH MAKES ME THINK THE BATTERY IS BOGUS I WOULD THINK IT WOULD GO AT LEAST 1/2 THROUGH THE OIL CHAMBER, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO 1/3 OR 1/4 NOT EVEN 1/5 - AND IT COULD BE 1/15TH IF THE BATTERY IS TESTED BECAUSE IT CRASHES QUICKLY - SOME USES CREATE MORE STRAIN THAN OTHERS, CAN'T ACTUALLY SAY THEY ARE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN

[@10secondsrule]

WHEN YOU WRITE LIKE THIS it is hard to read.

[@user-hz3eu5in]

Exactly. This is CRITICAL issue now to the entire EV car manufacturing industry. People are VERY concerned about residual values of EVs, which mostly depends on the cost of battery replacement. IF this is not solved soon, all of EV industry will be DEAD in a few years. This is the reason why EV sales are dropping worldwide now.

[@mnhsty]

Sales are not dropping. Sales growth has dropped.

[@badchefi]

No that is not the reason - your another KZbin expert that simplifies everything into one cause.

[@badchefi]

@@onetwothreefour-s1nthey haven’t abandoned EVs. They are adapting after learning their lessons.

[@robertfonovic3551]

​@badchefi Hertz have learned their lesson. NO MORE EV'S. which part of that do you not understand?

[@robertfonovic3551]

​@badchefi yet you offer no counterpoint?

[@justinr9753]

This is why i check major component price before buying.

[@craigcullen4171]

Lol same as Tesla owners being charged $25,000 for a battery !!! . Batteries for BEVs are the most expensive part of the car and are ludicrously expensive . Other thing with them is you can’t repair them you have to replace the whole pack as they are not serviceable like a car engine for example. Hybrid batteries only cost $3000 to replace . That’s why there is no second hand market the risk of getting a dud battery is way too high, as to replace ir would cost more than the car did .

[@srikanna4597]

Have you ever checked the prices for a used Tesla? I think you will be surprised. And I read that they are the fastest selling cars in the used vehicle market

[@gildasarnaud-gallin596]

Swappable battery is one solution

[@neilkurzman4907]

It’s an old idea that never catches on no matter how many times it’s tried

[@neilkurzman4907]

@@onetwothreefour-s1n Why don’t you look and see how many others have tried this and failed. This isn’t a new up-and-coming idea. This is an old retried idea.

[@neilkurzman4907]

@@onetwothreefour-s1n If it becomes popular, then it becomes popular. Is it a technological breakthrough that’s going to change everything no not really. It gets even more complicated when you want to have one battery that fits every car. That would mean every car would need to be designed around it. This from an industry, that’s taking years to come up with a common charging connector

[@neilkurzman4907]

@@onetwothreefour-s1n Yes, every vehicle would need to be redesigned to accept those particular battery mountains. Which would be a complete redesign of the car since many of them use the battery structure as part of the car structure. So, in this case the structure of the car would have to be able to support the weight of the battery. The question becomes is that what the public wants or needs. Since most we charge at home most of the time. Does this additional cost help the customer. I guess we’ll find out

[@neilkurzman4907]

@@onetwothreefour-s1n Well, then, the Chinese may end up with a different solution than other countries.

[@MichaelGreenLagos]

Its going to be a big problem for Tesla and its glued in battery no one will be able to fix unless its got a LFP battery so only buy Tesla with LFP battery modules

[@nejc3]

Replacing a 60 Kwh gross Tesla battery pack still costs around 10K eur which is rather a lot- Prices need and will come down once the scaling and technology gets further down the line.

[@janvanrookhuijzen8309]

10k for a 60kWh pack is a bargain. Especially as a end user price.

[@nejc3]

@@janvanrookhuijzen8309 considering that most people replace their bad batteries after let's say 10 year ownership, that's rather a steep investment, no?

[@srikanna4597]

@@nejc3 But most people will never replace their batteries. It's a very small percentage who will have to do that. But if you end up doing that the vehicle will be good for a lot more years or hundreds of thousands of miles. Besides the replacement should cost a lot less in another 8/10 years.

[@nejc3]

you're right, let's hope for bright future.@@srikanna4597

[@TB-up4xi]

@@nejc3 The difference in fuel alone between my Audi A4 petrol and Model 3 RWD (25,000km per year / 15,000 miles) is $2800 per year ($3400 for the Audi at 6.8L / 100 and $2/litre) v $540 in electricity on the Model 3. Add in another $1650 a year in reduced service costs (Audi), and lower costs for tires, brakes and insurance and the savings add up real quick.

[@lumtavon1952]

Tesla battery replacement is not cheap but what other makes are doing is criminal. BMW is known for its crazy high service parts prices but what they do with replacement batteries should be made known to any potential customer UPFRONT to understand what customer ripoff service could cost. Never ever would i buy a car from such a make. To stop this governments should protect customers better with for example a mandatory 10 year warranty.

[@marklihsu]

Isn't the consumer responsible for researching their purchase before committing?

[@contra_plano]

I ve to pay to update my Zoe batterie software... It gives me a new batterie with that. And they do not say it to ckients that they could do that

[@pgiatrakis]

Thanks ❤ELECTRIC VIKING ⚡️ You are correct and the entire dealership and auto industry doesn’t want EVs. It’s common to be ignored at any repair shop, it’s common to be treated rudely at any repair shop. I’ve had tire places be rude unkind and indifferent. I once had a Firestone shop refuse to inspect my car by saying that the tail lights are slightly mismatched. There income is dependent on EVs failure. Yes EVs still need a lot of things but it’s an industry attitude. Thanks again 👍👍👍

[@dylanthomas12321]

But Tesla has a 100,000 mile battery warranty. Not BMW?

[@thomaskim3128]

Never buy a German car unless you have a money printing machine at home. I recently paid $1500 to replace a $50 plastic part, because of the labor required to remove the other parts to get to it. German cars are know for their predatory engineering - parts are engineered to fail after the warranty expired.

[@user-pt1ow8hx5l]

Buy a 'pre-Lexus' German or Swedish cars. They were build to last. 30 years ago. Or more.

[@emikomina]

@@user-pt1ow8hx5l or literally just buy a Lexus instead

[@abelincoln3261]

Battery pacs in new EVs will last on average 10 plus years at around 80% of their original charge Amp hours... Provided they are cared for properly. Most people do not realize that even a battery at 80% is going to operate their EV for another 5 plus years then at maybe around 75% to 70% it will still operate their car for years .Thus a new EVs battery life span will easily reach 25 years before it may need replacing... that's if the owner puts lots of miles on it ...EVs will go 300k mikes before they see any real change in battery life.

[@marklihsu]

You'll just need an ice car eventually if you want to take a road trip somewhere

[@jerryjohnsonwright5251]

I will NOT be buying an EV because of this very reason. An EV will become virtually worthless as it becomes older as consumers are scared of the replacement cost of a battery pack, an ICE cars value is maintained as it ages as its power train will last for a long, long time if it’s regularly serviced.

[@bagheera32]

An ICE car of 10 years or older will have a lot of maintenance and repair costs. Buying a two or three year old car is the sweet spot. EV technology will improve at a fast pace and costs will go down. Legacy car can delay but not prevent this.

[@plau2007]

​​@@bagheera32In think EVs are the future. But with a different battery technology. For the moment if you put the numbers on paper doesn't make any sens. I have a Renault Captur. Probably my next car will be a plug-in or EV.

[@jerryjohnsonwright5251]

When battery technology becomes better and cheaper I might consider an EV, but I would be worried about residual values of EVs when they get to about 8-10 years old as most batteries will be out of warranty and a failure of a battery pack will render the EV virtually worthless. Repair costs of an ICE car after 10 years will be nominal if properly serviced and maintained, there are plenty of very reliable and serviceable ICE car still on the road that are 15+ years old.

[@marklihsu]

​@@bagheera32not really. Had a rx350 sold it at 160k miles nothing but regular maintenance. There are tacomas with 300k+ miles that have had nothing but regular maintenance. Most modern cars can easily make it past 100k miles with no major component failures.

[@plau2007]

@@marklihsu This is why the current technology, without government subsidies EVs are dead. Will be brought for status by the rich. Or will city car (like Renault Twizy)

[@plau2007]

Regarding EVs ... I am realist. I think EV are the future but with current battery technology it doesn't make any economical sens. Whose who buy EV are doing it for status.

[@rabit818]

“No body walks in LA”, you are in trouble if your car is electric. Lots of freeway mileage on your car. 150k mileage is a blink of an eye for car owners

[@robertvandeveer1846]

Do people ever do the math for any batteries??? They are all expensive. Now you have 1000lb bespoke battery pack that needs replacing on a product where the battery pack may not even be in production anymore... who ever thought this would be cheap? This is exactly why ICE vehicles are still so popular.

[@Longtack55]

Battery technology will only get better. ICE has made few real advances in 100 years because they are in step with Oil companies.

[@69memnon69]

Doesn’t change much, everyone knows that you never buy a used luxury German brand.

[@davidishee2314]

This is exactly the reason that people want to do direct purchases and service through the manufacturer.

[@robertfonovic3551]

No thanks. I have a dislike for monopolies, and commies.

[@davidishee2314]

@@robertfonovic3551 Robert, with all the car manufacturers out there with fierce competition, your monopoly analogy is way off the mark.

[@htimmermans1938]

You forgot about economy of scale.

[@robertfonovic3551]

So, the more the batteries fail, the cheaper they will get. That's brilliant 😅😅😅😅

[@lumtavon1952]

Governments should enforce a minimum 10 year warranty for all parts which cost more than say 5% of the new car price including fitment!! This will teach some ripoff companies a lesson.

[@jrherita]

Fwiw an 8 year warranty is mandated on the batteries

[@JoeyBlogs007]

Also battery pack standards, just like regular batteries. That way you could shop around for the best value and warranty terms, introducing competition into the battery replacement market.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

This has worked successfully for regular cell batteries.

[@larryc1616]

ICE industry would go bankrupt with that warranty requirement.

[@tqlla]

@@jrherita but not if there is a scratch on the bottom of your car. Oh a rock scratched the plastic under your car? No warranty for you.

[@robsmith1a]

There's nothing green about making a car a really risky purchase once the battery warranty has expired. There will be many more vehicles being scrapped way before their useful life is over.

[@geoff37s57]

Sam, you are so naive. Replacing a faulty module in an older battery is far from simple and inexpensive. This is not a job for a back yard operator. It is highly unlikely an older battery or module can be replaced by a more modern component. The replacement will need to come from old stock with an original price tag. A complete battery replacement is likely quicker, cheaper and, importantly, much safer.

[@bsaxman2012]

Can you give us an update on the widely reported story in Oct 2023 of Tesla charging Johnny Bacigalupo and Rob Hussey £17,374, or about US $21,000 to fix their battery after driving in heavy rain?

[@moragkerr9577]

Yeah, I'd like to know what happened about that too. Several things about that story did not add up at all.

[@glike2]

In SoCal LAPD bought a bunch of i3's and they almost all sat hardly used. Tempting to buy used.

[@MudflyWatersman]

The batteries aren't that expensive they're just making them difficult to get to by incorporating them too deeply into the vehicle. They need to be easy to change.... And they need to be shared between vehicles.... Every battery cannot be a one-off design... Because it will not be available in the future if it is. Manufacturers are of course to blame. And they're actually doing it to themselves because they're going to inhibit the uptake of EV after they have already invested billions. Batteries don't actually last that long..... Under best conditions you're looking at losing about 40% of your battery capacity by 10 years at which point the battery has to be replaced to be acceptable. Abusing the battery with too much fast charging will lead to much earlier replacement. Look at it this way, it's exactly the same as your phone....... Exactly.

[@cutehumor]

Can ev batteries be diy

[@abelincoln3261]

EVs totally change the car sales and service model

[@rogerphelps9939]

It should be free is the car is under warranty. Insurance should cover accident damage. Given these facts who is actually paying these ridiculous sums?

[@karlfoxwell8383]

So its like buying a printer you pay for the ink

[@frankcoffey]

In 2000 I was quoted $900 for a brake job on my BMW 3 series by the dealership so nothing has changed. By the way I traded off the car and never bought a German car of any brand since then. The cost wasn't the issue the car was just a lemon and had two pages of stuff wrong with it that BMW would either not fix or could not fix.

[@flukeylukey7559]

Auto makers who do this are shooting them selves in the foot, or is the dealerships fault. This is why I'm waiting for NIO, let someone else worry about the battery.

[@i6power30]

EV battery pack calendar ages, regardless how many miles you drive. Unlike gas cars if you drive fewer miles and do proper maintenance, reliable engines such as from Toyota can pretty much last forever, EVs will just expire after 12 years, as battery chemistry simply degrade. No amount of careful maintanance will delay this aging process beyond 10 - 12 year mark.

[@Erikkrols]

My Smart ED is 12 years old and still has 90% of battery. Only 24000 mikes I have to say.

[@i6power30]

@@Erikkrols Maybe you can eek out a couple more years. But in theory liquid battery chemistry has an expiry date. The capacity does not diminish linearly, it accelerates, it's not going to take another 10 years to go from 90-80%. it'll probaby take 1 - 2, then once it's under 80% it'll fall off the cliff or suddenly fail completely. Some military trucks are still in service from 50 years ago. No smart electronics or computers, just pure mechincal trucks. EVs will never be able to last that long.

[@flukeylukey7559]

​@@i6power30ICEV seem like they last forever, but those old trucks and Toyota's need all the parts replaced and engine, some parts several times. If you're worried about the battery, maybe wait for NIO to get here, then no need to worry about the battery.

[@marklihsu]

​@@flukeylukey7559nope there are Toyota trucks with 300k miles on original engine and transmission. Some just have had their transmission replaced. And engine replacement runs $5-$10k way cheaper than the battery pack. I have a 94 Dodge ram van with 247k miles on it. The engine still runs! You're not going to get an EV on 30's that can do the same.

[@cliveallen7778]

Should have got a NIO !

[@dylanthomas12321]

Invaluable advice.Find an independent shop.

[@GORT70]

It’s planned obsolescence. They want you to buy a whole new vehicle, not a part.

[@neiliewheeliebin]

Universal batteries need to be made mandatory IMO

[@albertiwong]

there could be many reasons for such high prices. One of course is price gouging. Another reason is that the battery is no longer in large scale production. Battery parts including energy cells are no longer in stock, which could be in a different shape, or chemistry; therefore needs to be produce in a small scale to satisfy the order; thus contributing to the ridiculous price.

[@vermontsownboy6957]

Regardless of any reason you list, it appears solidly unwise to buy any EU OEM produced EV except for Tesla.

[@albertiwong]

@@vermontsownboy6957 yes, tesla and BYD will dominate the EV market. Repairing out of warranty battery will see the same problem that we are talking about; hopefully the battery recycling supply chain will be developed enough for the poor soul with the non functioning battery to recover a few hundred dollars.

[@iSot80]

Short answer for this video: NIO

[@simond7582]

they dont want you to repair, pls buy a new one... thankfully we are seeing an aftermarket develop for replacements

[@alexanderjansseune1763]

Unless you belong to the high society, buy a regular brand. The so called durability of the high end brands is exponentially overcompensated by the price you pay for a repair or maintenance. They engineer the cars to fail after 100k km's

[@willmac5642]

Why im selling my bmw after 3.5 yrs (bsi 5)

[@kamgarcha1021]

EV's are a pile of junk metal once the battery fails. Worthless!!

[@ФёдорЛукин-у1о]

Depending on which brand you mean. EVs differ from one another MORE that ICE cars do

[@flukeylukey7559]

NIO cars aren't worthless, just swap it out, lots of EV makers are joining this party soon.

[@neilkurzman4907]

Gasoline powered cars are just a pile of junk once the engine fails. Worthless. ????

[@alarjak]

i3 was a bad joke

[@hseochin]

So long as you have like Hyundai & others charging $ 60000 for replacement batteries, then if BMW charges similar, then it should NOT be any surprise ! Overall i certainly prefer a BMW or some other German make to some Chinese, Korean Asian make of car !

[@snappingclam8801]

No such ripoffs with ICE vehicles.

[@freedom8480]

😂😂😂 the whole ICE Vehicle is a ripoff, dude.

[@snappingclam8801]

ICE vehicles have a 100+ year record of reliably. EVs are overpriced, overweight, unreliable, expensive to repair, depreciate rapidly and are prohibitively expensive to insure. What are the advantages?

[@jrherita]

​@@snappingclam8801100 years of poisoning us with toxic gasses.

[@GORT70]

Really? Ever tried to buy a new dealer engine or transmission?

[@wayneoxborough351]

@@snappingclam8801 Well mine has been reliable for 5 years, cheap to run, hasn't needed to repair and the insurance is what I'd expect for a hatchback. But my neighbours premium turbodiesel lived on a trailer (3 times 3 months ) before he bought a model Y.

[@timconder4909]

I love the i3. Another magnificently executed design by BMW. Concept is excellent. Execution and materials approach ballsy AF. …range sucks. Factory support apparently sucks. Replacement battery cost is ridiculous. BMW is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Astounding designers/engineers/factory workers and disgusting ass business department planned obsolescence/EV saboteurs. Bought a second gen Mini for my daughter’s first car because she loves them. I’m amazed at how cool they are yet literally feel like puking as the incredibly weak elements keep rearing their head. These foolish problems HAD to be engineered on purpose. Nobody, especially BMW could be this stupid. $&@!ing sad.

[@Jackjack-zl4nt]

You might hav your rant..no company cares, customer care is just print on paper..# one Stealership corporate principle of making 10% profit ontop of last years profits dictate to rip where and who they can😢

[@Carisbrook71]

NIO Sam, NIO. Batteries do fail. Answer - get it out of the ecosystem! Structural batteries are problematic and have a life of around 8 years. Those who partner with NIO will survive, prosper and succeed ...

[@chassdesk]

Just legacy parts pricing models! Mb bmw Kia. Do your self a favor only buy a Tesla people.

[@iandavies4853]

Amoral vs immoral, they aren’t interchangeable terms. Many Aussies struggle with even basic English. Batteries composed of cells, modules, pack. You mistake the terms. It’s like EV 101.

[@kenchow8213]

BMW isn't the only one. Hyundai wants $60,000 to replace the battery for the IONIQ 5 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3a7mpilZZunl5o

[@briand5379]

I have no sympathy for these people, if you're dumb enough to pay for luxury like a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and so on you're going to pay more when things break, that's just the reality of it. Even extended warranties can cost well into the $10Ks. Don't want to pay more than, don't buy luxury brands. If you want to save on battery replacement, buy from a secondary company that refurbishes batteries.

[@TonOoms]

Don’t believe a battery for i3 cost so much!!

[@larryc1616]

They don't make their own so no price or reliability control

[@berniecoderre3935]

That is why I will only buy a Nio, so I can swap out my battery!❤😱💚💙

[@JoeyBlogs007]

You should be doing your homework on battery replacement costs before you even purchase an EV !!! LOL