BMW SMG Won't Adapt!

** EDIT REGARDING THE COST **
Just to clarify and try to answer all the questions surrounding the customer being charged to remove the gearbox a 2nd time.
HE WASN’T.
Perhaps I used the wrong phrase of words on the video without expanding (sorry for any confusion).
This video was recorded 2.5 years ago:
Work carried out 1st July 2020.
Video uploaded 4th July 2020.
Video published 5th Feb 2023.
I’ve just check the works invoice from 8th July 2020 and WE PAID FOR HALF THE LABOUR.
I can tell you the customer was very happy with that outcome.
I appreciate some people may still think that’s unacceptable and there’s not much I can do about that as everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.
Ourselves and the customer both came to the conclusion that neither party could have known about the Slave Cylinder ‘may’ cause the SMG not to adapt due to a 2017 BMW document (BMW released 12 years after production, and only 3 years before this work was carried out in 2020), and therefore we agreed to split the invoice as it was neither persons fault.
If it was anybody’s fault you could point the finger (and aim that negativity in your comments) towards the manufacturer BMW.
Thanks.
** END OF EDIT **
Here's an interesting twist to a common problem with BMW SMG transmissions.
This BMW E64 M6 uses the S85 V10 mated to the unique 7-speed 'SMG III' Gearbox.
SMG III was the last incarnation of the BMW SMG Gearbox before they moved to DCT Gearboxes in the F-series vehicles.
SMG I = E36 M3
SMG II = E46 M3
SMG III = E6x M5/M6
This V10 M6's Clutch Release Bearing failed (they split into 2 pieces), which led the Clutch to prematurely fail at just 42,000 miles.
Upon replacing all the items with new ones, the SMG Adaption process kept failing.
We tried it several times but each time it was unsuccessful.
One of the fault codes stored was:
4F67: SMG - Learning Not Run (Clutch Valve Values, Clutch Slipping Point).
The great thing about being connected to BMW's ISTA over-the-internet (directly to them) is the ability to check BMW PuMA which is an internal database of all known problems - however small.
During our checks, we found a PuMA case from 2017 where someone discovered that even without changing the Clutch you could get a strange fault code called 4F67.
4F67 is an internal fault with the Hydraulic Slave Cylinder (NOT the PLCD Sensor which lives inside the Slave Cylinder).
It seems to be an unknown mechanical fault (not electrical) that stops the Clutch Slave Cylinder from operating correctly, and therefore not passing the Adaptation Process.
We installed a new Clutch Slave Cylinder, and then the SMG Adaptation Process was successful first time.
We hope this video helps others who may be suffering from an SMG III Adaptation issue.
If all else fails, contact us to make a booking for your E6x M5 and E6x M6 V10 needs.
Please LIKE, SHARE, SUBSCRIBE for more BMW M-Power content!
Follow us on Instagram: redish_motorsport
www.redish-motorsport.com
Thanks for watching.

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

REGARDING THE COST: Wow guys, chill, such negativity in such a short space of time…. This video was recorded 2.5 years ago: Work carried out 1st July 2020. Video uploaded 4th July 2020. Video published 5th Feb 2023. Just to clarify and try to answer all the questions surrounding the customer being charged to remove the gearbox a 2nd time. HE WASN’T. Perhaps I used the wrong phrase of words on the video without expanding (sorry for any confusion). I’ve just check the works invoice from 8th July 2020 and WE PAID FOR HALF THE LABOUR. I can tell you the customer was very happy with that outcome. I appreciate some people may still think that’s unacceptable and there’s not much I can do about that as everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. Ourselves and the customer both came to the conclusion that neither party could have known about the Slave Cylinder ‘may’ cause the SMG not to adapt due to a 2017 BMW document (BMW released 12 years after production, and only 3 years before this work was carried out in 2020), and therefore we agreed to split the invoice as it was neither persons fault. If it was anybody’s fault you could point the finger (and aim that negativity in your comments) towards the manufacturer BMW. Thanks.

[@Treeburnify]

I think I would be tempted to tap a thread into the bellhousing for the slave cylinder and change to fixing bolts to avoid having to completely remove gearbox again

[@chrisg4rr377]

Thats deffo what i would be doing

[@ALPINA527]

Yeah I would go down there and do it my self.

[@465painkiller465]

Looking forward to the release of your V3 reinforcement kit video

[@embeddedusystems]

You've got to love the BMW genuine tools :-)

[@BurninGas8.1]

I have a failed clutch release bearing it blew the shim clip out of center would this cause a clutch adaptation to fail

[@slimdugger99]

Do you have this same slave cylinder problem with the manual transmission or is it just in the SMG? Also, the new genuine BMW slave cylinder looks totally different than the original you’re replacing, was it the same part or was it superceded by the factory?

[@comeberza]

I know this was recorded a long time ago but how would a car with 500hp compare to the running cost on this M6? Are this that terribly expensive in its class or is it just that they depreciate way more and therefore the investment has way less return? These huge cabrios super GTs are my favorite cars but they seem less reasonable that basically anything else. This car is gorgeous

[@BurninGas8.1]

I’m in the same boat installed new clutch new plcd sensor and relearn won’t complete no visual leaks

[@DanniV8]

Was this done in 2020 or does your ISTA computer not have the correct date set?

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

Work carried out 1st July 2020. Video uploaded 4th July 2020. Video published 5th Feb 2023.

[@commissarsydian4125]

Could you give a ballpark of what this would cost today instead of 3 years ago, grey video otherwise

[@commissarsydian4125]

Great*

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

Hi there, prices on our website here: www.redish-motorsport.com/E63E64M6S85ClutchFlywheel.html Many thanks.

[@jhrodriguez08]

Here is where a disagree with the 2nd bill , the 2nd one should’ve been half/half at the end the shop should’ve know this issue before reinstalling the gearbox

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

Just to clarify and try to answer all the questions surrounding the customer being charged to remove the gearbox a 2nd time. HE WASN’T. Perhaps I used the wrong phrase of words on the video without expanding (sorry for any confusion). I’ve just check the works invoice from 8th July 2020 and WE PAID FOR HALF THE LABOUR. I can tell you the customer was very happy with that outcome. I appreciate some people may still think that’s unacceptable and there’s not much I can do about that as everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. Ourselves and the customer both came to the conclusion that neither party could have known about the Slave Cylinder ‘may’ cause the SMG not to adapt due to a 2017 BMW document (BMW released 12 years after production, and only 3 years before this work was carried out in 2020), and therefore we agreed to split the invoice as it was neither persons fault. If it was anybody’s fault you could point the finger (and aim that negativity in your comments) towards the manufacturer BMW. Thanks.

[@jhrodriguez08]

@@RedishMotorsportbmw Thanks for clarifying, I love your work and wish we’d have a shop like yours in texas 🇺🇸

[@michaelcoachtechvp2846]

When it comes BMWs Mercedes and Audis Porsche you change everything and spare no expense then you change every connected component. Open you a$$ I mean wallet

[@jhrodriguez08]

Doing this job and installing the plastic ball pin again doesn’t make sense instead of going for a metallic one

[@darrenboston342]

No brainier really James, bit like doing all that work & not replacing the rear main oil seal while the flywheel is off for the little extra cost🙄

[@sociopathicnarcissist8810]

Another reason not to keep a BMW once the warranty has expired

[@OlafMeyer]

So you said one of the symptoms was that it wouldn’t go into gear but could it be that the clutch just didn’t come back out making it seem like a gear was not selected when intact it had? I’m asking because I think I’m having this issue, sounds very similar but I wanted to get clarification on the symptoms so I’ve made this video to show: please have a look and tell us what you reckon. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpy4nmWIaaeWq68si=I-vobNS9GJ-Ko7Ux. Thanks

[@--LZ---]

Mate, unless your videos are all out of whack in terms of upload date, you have a video 2 years ago on your channel of an M6 (BMW M6: picking up the pieces) , where you mention this fault and say it's worth it to replace if it's out already. Timing on the video at 9:50. Why didnt you do this already this time? Forgot about it? I respect your professionalism and I've watched almost all of your videos, learned a lot, but honestly this is a bit iffy if it's on the customer... I'd only say the customer should pay for the extra labor ONLY if you already told him this issue and he refused to change the clutch slave cylinder. Don't delete this comment, wont be a good look.

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

Good spot, but just to clarify, this video (SMG Won’t Adapt) was uploaded 4th July 2020 and Sat as ‘unlisted’ (like about 80% of our videos) but has always been available on our M5 & M6 Clutch Page website here: www.redish-motorsport.com/E63E64M6S85ClutchFlywheel.html ). Whereas, the video you refer to (Picking Up The Pieces) was uploaded 17th November 2020. Just took screenshots showing the 2 upload dates on KZbin but can’t seem to find a way to add images to this reply.

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

So yeah, our uploads are not always in order. We have a video graveyard of another 42 usable videos recorded but they are currently sat as ‘unlisted’ which is why sometimes the dates are out of spec. Thanks for the comment, we’ll take this on board and try to remember to add notes to the video and/or description if it’s an old video to help clear up any future questions.

[@--LZ---]

@@RedishMotorsportbmw Good job ! Honestly you are very inspiring through the quality of work you do and your professionalism and transparency. If I lived in the UK I'd definitely want to work for you, this world lacks people who know what they are doing. P.S. waiting for the m3 touring series ;)

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

Thanks LZ! We were working on the M3 Touring 2 weeks ago actually - trying to finish up the video clips needed to finish editing the Trunk Floor episode. I know we've now recorded Parts 2 and 3 (need editing), and have direction for another Part 4 and Part 5 subjects and that's just Rear/Underside Bodywork and before we even get onto anything mechanical. Thanks for following! James Redish.

[@davyboy888]

A great reason not to buy one of these cars.

[@toomuchsauce4442]

1, The fact that you charged customer again for labor is ridicules and very unprofessional . Clearly that was a mistake on your guys behalf and not the customers . 2 customer probably spent a lot of money and the fact that you couldn’t even use a can of break and clutch cleaner and really clean out the inside of that bell housing shows how lazy you guys have become .

[@-DC-]

*Brake

[@Mac_F87]

How was there a mistake made here? How would they have known that the clutch wouldn’t adapt until it was assembled? You seem to think they are running a charity or something 😂

[@adamrimsky]

@@Mac_F87 as a customer, I would be a bit surprised that professionals like these charged me for mechanical labor twice for a single job because they do not know this can happen and did not suggest replacing the cylinder straight away. As a workshop, I would be upset that BMW does not mention this in the repair manual and think about a discount on the mechanical labor to the customer to keep good customer relationships.

[@Mac_F87]

@@adamrimsky yeh, just because they said the customer would have to pay again how do you know they didn’t discount a few hours labour as a good will? It would seem they have explained the situation to the customer and he was happy to pay either way. What I can’t understand is why people on KZbin are getting upset on behalf of the customer. See there’s the rub, more and more people want everything for nothing. Unfortunately with M cars, RS cars or AMG cars big repair bills are par for the course. Why should a business start doing discounts to appease customers due to an issue that lies at BMW’s doorstep? If they start that it’s a slippery slope, BMW certainly aren’t going to reimburse them in return. You either pay main dealer prices and put your faith in similar thing not happening (which having first hand experience it does) or you go to a good independent who will charge slightly less but can’t know every single intricacy of every single model.

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

Thanks for the comment Tommu, but you are assuming we charged full labour to remove the gearbox a 2nd time due to BMW’s issue (not our incompetence). I just looked up the work invoice from 8th July 2020 and it shows we charged HALF of the labour. (We offered to pay half of it and the owner was very pleased with that outcome). Of course, you may still think that’s unacceptable - and that’s your choice as you’re entitled to your own opinion. I would also like to point out that unless I’m searching incorrectly, we’re the first company to highlight this fault in such detail in an attempt to help others. We could have kept the info to ourselves but that’s not what we’re about. If you’ve followed us or seen our type of style you’ll know the sort of stand up company we are. LZ, regarding your 2nd comment, please refer to your 1st comment where I answered and clarified the situation so I don’t really see the need to try to stir anything up by your 2nd comment here on someone else’s thread.