Booksmarts Confronts Destiny On Wolff, Vaush Divorce And Kink in Pride...

Booksmarts criticizes Destiny on his Richard Wolff debate, Vaush and asks him about Kink in pride...
Date: 27 May, 2021
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Booksmarts drops into stream to criticize Destiny on his debate performances, ban and unban policies and the Vaush divorce... Timestamps Click▼ 0:00 - Teaser/Intro 0:37 - Booksmarts review video 6:09 - Vaush's divorce video 9:50 - Destiny's ban and unban policy 11:45 - Destiny and criticism 18:39 - Destiny was never my friend and it's a manipulator tactic 24:53 - The first ban causes people to flip and become anti-fans 27:36 - Were they friends or not? 30:00 - Destiny is big on reciprocated behavior 32:48 - Destiny's changed positions and debate challenge 35:19 - Booksmarts wants Destiny to watch his Wolff review 39:00 - Destiny's debates have all turned meta and about optics 41:49 - Booksmart's method of tackling criticism 46:31 - Destiny's opinion on kinks 52:15 - The problem with calling someone like David Pakman a zionist 57:27 - Get credit for spreading misinfo and then praise for walking it back 1:01:15 - Are Destiny's positions spite driven and contrarian? 1:14:04 - TheOmniliberal vs GazeWithin 1:17:44 - Destiny's serfs charity tweet

[@user-wu1us1yh3n]

​@@suurmoguuli2149 could you elaborate?

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

@@user-wu1us1yh3n he's a hatewatcher.

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

@@upincloud244 you seem to have some problems with logical structures, my comment was not about booksmarts, try scrolling up.

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

@@upincloud244 not that frequently, most of their posts are recent but their entire comment history on this channel can be summarised in phrase (I think even said by them verbatim): "god I really hate Destiny".

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

@@upincloud244 people like that are frequent around here so I don't think anything is that surprising tbh.

[@WHYUNODYLAN]

Notice how there's no comments about how Destiny is a girl's name? That's right, he's banned all of those posters. Fascist Destiny can't take criticism!!!! True will never die!!!!

[@void56208]

We'll see how long you make it brother, thank you for the sacrifice

[@italianwaffle5592]

o7

[@lil_pan46]

o7

[@jamesbarnett6772]

This comment is still here for some reason, you will be banned shortly

[@void56208]

@@jamesbarnett6772 it was 7 hours ago, he probably got unbanned by destiny despite his mods not wanting that

[@millerrepin4452]

what a terrible interview he didn't even ask if destiny loves black people

[@DaveChappeleIsGod]

Dooooo. U.... Luhhhhh.... Blak.... Pepoh......?

[@DankAudioStash24]

Glad D and V are getting a divorce lawyer.

[@jeremias-serus]

good lol vaush just copies all his positions from destiny but manages to mess up reciting them pepeD

[@ronaldmexico1297]

@@jeremias-serus simp

[@jeremias-serus]

@@ronaldmexico1297 Yes

[@Re-Todd_Howard]

VD Venereal Disease

[@gmxealot6236]

Isn't that how most divorces go?

[@nomad9518]

Booksmarts the type of guy to debate someone into being a "nice person."

[@mattstockmal8167]

God that is the weirdest, but nicest compliment in this twitch sphere

[@nomad9518]

@@mattstockmal8167 lol, i like u.

[@mattstockmal8167]

@@nomad9518 keep doin you nomad. In this strange KZbin world..... you a real one :)

[@ballbag9641]

this was wholesome

[@FuckinZ3braS0n]

10 months in the future and this has literally happened lol

[@user-wu1us1yh3n]

Ah Yes, the Negotiator.

[@e.d.5766]

You know Steven is right about Vaush being hyper focused on optics because I don't know why else anyone would put on that much theatrics just to say "I don't want to talk to Destiny".

[@angelicking2890]

Perhaps it's genuine, Vaush has been saying for months that Destiny has been uncharitable how Destiny's community hates Vaush or something. Then again I don't know dude, I'm just going off with what I've heard Vaush said . They guy's true opinions could remain hidden as are most in social media space

[@e.d.5766]

@@angelicking2890 A lot of what Vaush said was clearly not true. Either he's being dishonest for the sake of optics, he's had festering rage cloud his judgement, or he's just crazy.

[@Re-Todd_Howard]

@@e.d.5766 if we are being honest, anger has clouded Vaush and Destiny’s judgment regarding each other for a while now.

[@e.d.5766]

@@Re-Todd_Howard But it seems like Vaush is angry at Steven for the dumb reasons we're attributing to their anger. It's hatred for the sake of hatred. I feel like someone who's intellectually outpaced Destiny should be able to recognise when their feelings aren't rational.

[@DDogg43777]

Why does Vaush need to engage with Destiny? Their conversations together are just meaningless, emotional rantings that never really get anywhere interesting. If you just like seeing people fight for the sake of fighting, then maybe you'll like it, but I see no reason they should engage with each other.

[@ramtinrostami5825]

12:55 "filed it away into my funny emails" i'm dead

[@Jacob-ch8qj]

Curious, you claim to be dead but yet you were able to comment on this video meaning you couldn't be dead, checkmate liberal!

[@jeffwells641]

@@Jacob-ch8qj Perhaps he meant "at the time you're reading this, I'm dead". Sort of like you see in movie wills.

[@ebek4806]

What is that thumbnail LoL.

[@widjadija]

Art.. It’s called art.

[@ebek4806]

@@widjadija Nah that jacket is flipping stupid looking. What is that picture from what vlog?

[@ebek4806]

@@dresk2380 Bro i did 🤣🤣🤣😂😂 OMG that sh1t is hilarious

[@meleeham]

Accurate thumbnail

[@dmac___]

The kink arc is the most braindead arc.

[@agustin4741]

The online left yet again coming with another hit

[@dmac___]

@@agustin4741 never thought I'd be looking for more league play

[@sameash3153]

@Madolite brain dead word salad

[@dannynewton9827]

@Madolite cringe

[@tking2199]

@Madolite yes because this a proper example of that argument, you are so smart. 🤓

[@cataddict_]

Best thumbnail ever 🤣

[@tayo17923]

Reasonable criticism = Trying to get me to change my rhetoric = booksmarts enemy

[@basedmaulguy4464]

go look up the thumbnail for Trump Supporter Confronts Me IRL, Doesn't Go Well....

[@wren4077]

I hate Booksmart's "concern" voice. Absolutely makes me wanna punch him. Also Booksmarts is absolutely obsessed with rhetoric. "Sure Wolff was disappointing but you could've had a nicer conversation if not a productive one." is his entire point... that's all just rhetoric.

[@jackblack9605]

Destiny has to remind himself that he loves Booksmarts. Well atleast thats one way of not getting triggered and burning a bridge. Baby steps

[@Sprite_525]

@@floridamainn104 “he used to punch her , now he just slaps her brah!” Lol

[@nyabeille]

I think its because he genuinely values what booksmarts says even if he brushes it off at the moment. He'll take what he says and think about it for a while, and he's said as much. I'd hate to see this bridge burn D:

[@PacifistBetaFish]

@@nyabeille it's only a matter of time. I do wonder how many more have to burn before its universally understood that that's just what destiny does

[@exhermit]

Don’t get me wrong, I love watching Destiny and I think he’s a genuinely intelligent person with a fair justification for wanting to give what he’s been receiving for so long. The only problem is he has incredibly little patience for retaining meaningful relationships. If your critique isn’t prefaced with love and compliments, there’s a good chance you’ll be excised. Like Book said, he used to handle this stuff with kid gloves so as not to cause Destiny to go nuclear every single time, but now he just doesn’t care. And honestly the only reason Destiny hasn’t told him to gtfo and not come back is because Book is incredibly socially conscious and tactful. Destiny isn’t some unhinged warlord or anything. But thanks to the constant personal attacks, regardless of well-meaning and actual positive pragmatism, his fuse has been reduced to almost immediate. As long as Book gives it a solid amount of time between these interactions, their relationship should be fine. As soon as it becomes a regular thing, it’ll be game over.

[@Terrorstanius]

it's really funny knowing how far booksmarts pushes his luck and watching destiny try his hardest not to burn the bridge big respect to booky for risking that, especially since dgg chat got more and more pissed at him as the convo went on

[@e.d.5766]

"He bans people and doesn't take criticism so I'm banning him and not allowing people to critique it."

[@EternalAssassins99]

I think it's more of a fight fire with fire of thing for Vaush

[@cpt.gwyndolin8665]

banning drama frogs from constantly shitting up your subreddit and discord everyday is not the same as banning fair criticism. Whether destiny does or doesnt is a whole other matter but people jumping at this as hypocrisy for easy dunks are being brainlets about it.

[@oramaj8392]

I like booksmarts but this convo he kinda just seemed extremely passive aggressive and condescending.

[@eduardosalazar4819]

He really was not. Citisizm does not entail a negative connotation, most fans just get upset for the fact he is getting criticized in the first place. Book was being nothing but good faith.

[@damepenn5483]

@@eduardosalazar4819 I would say that about his other videos (although he does focus on rhetoric a bit too much) But in this one, he barley took the time to understand Destiny's responses to his questions.

[@Stabby666]

Well, when Destiny split up from Hassan, Hassan ended up being one of the most successful streamers on Twitch. So maybe the future is looking rosy for Vaush...

[@gyytgy3330]

Hasan was smaller than Destiny for months after, it was only when he stopped doing politics 100% and switching to 20% politics and 80% reacting to videos he went bigger. Afterwards during BLM riots he went back to politics and blew up due to COVID

[@squeakypistonproductions2228]

Imo there is a massive difference between "look this is who I emotionally love and want to spend my life with" and "here look what weird shit gets me off" as a public display. I think that mixing those two is extremely damaging.

[@Ironraven24]

While I mostly agree, the problem is these cultural ties to kink is pretty prevalent in especially early history of gay culture in america. As there are a lot of kink type clothing that is pretty harmless when worn in public, the lines drawn seem rather arbitrary due to the taboo nature of something like a gimp suit. Regardless, most pride parades don't have kink these days and the ones that do are a minority. I think people should just have 18+ parades/parties for actual kink and try to maintain a relative amount of decency otherwise. Like leather is cool, but maybe no gimpsuits. Shit I don't even necessarily see the problem with dog masks if its just a dude walking around normally instead of acting like a dog. Thats where it gets dicey

[@squeakypistonproductions2228]

@@Ironraven24 Sure there might be "strong ties" but straight people have kinks too. I think that optically it damages cultural acceptance as a whole. Its just not an appropriate place for it. If you want to have small signifiers sure but it literally furthers and emboldens the degenerate "what's next? fucking animals?" argument.

[@Ironraven24]

@@squeakypistonproductions2228 yeah, I think it’s good to consider optics with gay acceptance and it probably shouldn’t be commonplace for sure. I guess I’m more thinking about where the line should be drawn exactly, but I suppose for most rational people this line is pretty intuitive.

[@squeakypistonproductions2228]

@@Ironraven24 Also there is nothing wrong with deviancy its just not the place for it. If you go to certain clubs and bars and want to get freaky I'm all for it its a free country but to tie up the image and purpose of pride with your niche kink is just selfish.

[@connorp3030]

@@squeakypistonproductions2228 Straight people do have kinks too, but LGBTQ+ are kinky much more often. The problem is that the LGBTQ+ community wants representation of kink. Now clearly, displays of kink to people that don't consent is unethcial, and pride should be accessible for kids. The obvious solution is to have a section of pride which is concealed for nsfw stuff

[@pokedonut5945]

Honestly, Booksmarts is so much more charitable to the people destiny debates. Then Destiny himself. I assume its because he is just the rhetoric guy and people like Vaush are more rhetorically effective.

[@DDogg43777]

I mean Destiny isn't exactly a symbol of being charitable...

[@stopaskingforrealnames3853]

@@DDogg43777 More chareitable than vaush, and most left leaners

[@Robert21211]

@Don Shepard Yep, It's becoming incredibly frustrating to listen to, and have his audience defend him when he does the same shit. THEN also says he has principles and he's not the same.

[@abednegokurio9244]

I think Vaush is good most of the time but there are times when I feel like he is deliberately disingenuous because it's convenient at the time. It's never an outward lie so he can toe the line between truth and falsehood and say he misremembers or something. That "he was never my friend thing" is one of the most egregious. In addition to what's already been said, I remember him admitting that he has a lot of parasocial feelings towards Destiny that will never go away some time ago. Just a little bit sus.

[@PacifistBetaFish]

Recognizing parasocial feelings towards someone isnt the same as saying they were your friend tho.

[@Frizzyy]

Vaush is on point on allot of issues but his charecter seems somewhat fake to me idk

[@raptorreddelta3986]

@@PacifistBetaFish conflating parasocial feelings with friendship can be parasociality in and of itself lol

[@PacifistBetaFish]

@@raptorreddelta3986 It could be, depending on the individual, but Vaush has communicated his positions on parasociality in online spaces in the past. He maintains that its 100% not the same as friendship. Theres no conflating on his part. If anything the conflation was brought up by the OP

[@raptorreddelta3986]

@@PacifistBetaFish oh, I know. That's who I mean

[@sebastiencaron-roy2426]

I was permanently banned from your subreddit a year ago for extremely respectfully arguing that Destiny was responsible for being unpartnered because of what he had said. Destiny I love you and love your content but the idea that your community doesn't ban an overwhelming amount of criticism is simply not true. I saw at least 5-6 people who were extremely good faith and respectful get permanently banned during that week alone.

[@violektric]

now I can really only take you at your word here, which I will. however, I do still wonder if either side is quite accurate. maybe you really were super good faith, or maybe it was like what destiny described: toxic phrasing that houses some good faith criticism. this is something that even BookSmarts agreed on with Destiny and it does seem to line up. but shit, maybe this 5-6 people are legit, I can only take anyone's word for it.

[@violektric]

I love how that other guy who replied got fucking disappeared. prolly serves him right tbh

[@bojack9887]

"I'm not a vindictive person" may be the funniest quote in this entire convo lmao

[@jeremias-serus]

Why did that make you laugh? It wasn't a joke and he's right, he's not vindictive at all. Unless you're going by some definition other than: vin·dic·tive having or showing a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge.

[@jeremias-serus]

@Don Shepard If someone is correct I'm gonna defend them. Simple as that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ care to counter argue?

[@98danielray]

@@jeremias-serus dont bother. read their comments. they arent here in good faith

[@bojack9887]

@@jeremias-serus if you actually believe destiny isn't vindictive against lefties in general, you're a moron, but hey, you do you chief.

[@jeremias-serus]

@@98danielray I'm aware. I've tangled with this dude in the past, he's a hellbent Destiny antistan.

[@neverusingthisagain2]

One thing I don't get about destiny is that he gets views by using hyperbolic hot takes. Then gets mad when other people use hyperbolic hot takes

[@belikebrett]

Man I thought Destiny could be condescending at times, Booksmarts takes the crown for sure.

[@Ironraven24]

What was condescending about what bookie said lol

[@belikebrett]

@@Ironraven24 When a person sits here and tells you constantly how you could have did better it's going to increase the chances of condescension. Though not saying it's inherent. That's all I'm going to say, not going to like write an essay explaining his rhetoric and give quotes.

[@xx_HI_xx7]

Adding kink to pride helps no one and only allows degenerative people in public to display what should stay in the home.

[@AspiringDevil]

Hell technically it doesn't even have to stay at home it's just kink events by definition should not allow minors & have reasonable precautions. It bugs me because kink celebrations & conventions had this under control for literal generations but then like most things political cults get involved & ruin everything.

[@xx_HI_xx7]

@AspiringDevil fair. If it's in a place away from public eyes as in a controlled event, then whatever. Off the streets. Most don't want to see that.

[@nyabeille]

has anyone made a destinybot? feed the ai destiny takes until you can ask it a question and it gives an accurate destiny take. maybe it could intellectually outpace him

[@veryfitting]

Call it Gagstiny

[@jeremias-serus]

It's a meme but I stg there will be philosophy bots in the future. Just automate different philosophical frameworks and have THEM debate to find out what's the true philosophical framework.

[@greanbeen2816]

Boosh Vad

[@Pharomid]

@Don Shepard It's hilarious that people to the left of Destiny think he's in the middle politically when that is just so incorrect. if the spectrum was from 1-10, 10 being fascist, 5 being middle, he's a 2.5 and the people at a 1 are like "oh my gawd he's a 5!" Obviously he's got some bad takes and you're right about him when it comes to israel palestine where he shits on lefties and makes the "both bad" take.

[@Re-Todd_Howard]

We already have Vaush for that.

[@AnimeFan9833]

Okay, Destiny is pretty obviously dodging Books criticisms on the Wolff debate. Even if you're the biggest DGG simp you have to recognize that it takes two to tango and there are decisions Destiny made that contributed to how that discussion went. He could just listen to what booksmarts has to say but instead he doesn't wanna hear it and says it's all because Wolff was too dumb for him.

[@RanEncounter]

Did you not listen to the answer for the critique? Seems like you did not.

[@dantelagercrantz5123]

he admitted the "two to tango" thing, i think at that point it didnt matter. he went in with expectations and was disappointed, he either wasnt interested in having a baby convo with Wolff (which was what Booksmarts wanted Destiny to do) or didnt have the capability to be in the moment and recalibrate. Sometimes its easy to critizice debates when youre not in it, but if Destiny went in for x and got y id forgive him for not changing his outlook on the debate completely.

[@ions7581]

Even if Destiny could have done better, I certainly think Wolff and themoderator were mostly to blame for how that went.

[@Ryattt81]

I think Wolff started off as condescending, and aggressing towards Destiny, and it degenerated from there. Also, did you see his follow up? Ad hom high school nonsense.

[@creepyjesus1471]

Literally no one would be whining about Destiny not babying a *professor* through a debate if the professor was Jordan Peterson or a right-wing guy. Literally the only reason people care is because Wolff is a commie.

[@synthiandrakon]

Okay so like the reason destiny's mods get so mad at him when he unbans a bunch of people is because within the whole host of people that destiny unbans because they were unfairly banned people who actually deserve to be banned are also slipping through the cracks and getting unbanned. That is a problem that can be worked on, and we don't have to talk about other communities.

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

The question is when we can be sure a chatter deserves a ban or it is just mod overreacting.

[@synthiandrakon]

@@Ivan-qf4mt if he really believes his mods are morons who overeact all the time than he should probably get new mods, it's his community, that would be something he could improve on. These are all things he can think about I guess

[@xDDufiosy]

Are you against people reforming?

[@synthiandrakon]

@@xDDufiosy yes

[@ufffd]

Sounds like a pretty ez problem. Better ban notes, or make an unban list that requires approval from a mod or two that weren't involved in the original ban.

[@22Neath22]

AugustEditing do you have a filter that censors profanities/bad words for chat? That is one of the biggest brain ideas I have ever seen.

[@exhermit]

Yeah I noticed that, too! I was think there’s no way Destiny I’d able to preempt a segment to flick on the censoring. So it has to be AE. Very nice

[@jeffholt7868]

@ Mekolodican August got destiny to put a censor filter on his chat permanently because I guess youtube demonetizes videos with swear words on parts of the screen so even during the actual stream it's censored for everyone

[@someone-mm5jz]

Like this booksmart guy

[@Subrees]

Booksmarts has a KZbin channel.

[@SuperGiovanniSantos]

I will never forget when book smarts throws destiny under the bus for hes opinion over the Kyle defending him self at the riots

[@leajey4279]

@@SuperGiovanniSantos under the bus? Didn't book agree?

[@nunyabizz3357]

"zionist" is hilariously emotionally loaded in American parlance for absolutely no reason whatsoever. in hebrew it's basically used the same way as "patriotic".

[@synthiandrakon]

"none of the bans in my chat are permanent" idk dude when you get hit with the 1024 league ban it feels pretty permenant

[@hibiscushiatus6833]

Email him should get unbanned

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

Email him and don't tilt him in League in future, you know the risks involved.

[@synthiandrakon]

@@Ivan-qf4mt when it's your first ban there is a lot of uncertainty, I know it's not that bad but it feels real bad

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

@@synthiandrakon you'll get used to it, trust me.

[@synthiandrakon]

@@Ivan-qf4mt I've been around for years I know, it's just I know personally I dropped out of the community because of a dumb ban and not getting around to doing an unban or like I've seen people chat a lot in d.gg and basically leave the community after a league ban because it upsets them, not all of the emotional reactions to these bans are super toxic anti fan shit

[@thealthingpolitics]

The way that Destiny and Wolff do debates is different and the moderator should have done a better job. You can't have two different types of people, that are used to haveing debates in different formats, tossed into a twitch debate with a non-existent moderator, and expect it to go well.

[@frenkysprod.4223]

Ok wolff has no points still .

[@THEOAKCAT]

Wolf really just isn’t that smart lol.

[@quellonatolibero]

I think the real losers are us audience who had to suffer like this

[@ksilva2848]

@@quellonatolibero your thinking is correct

[@eduardosalazar4819]

@@frenkysprod.4223 that's just not true. I don't agree with any of Wolff's points, neither do I think he did a good job presenting them in this monologue s, but they were there. He always answered every question but he did so in such a poor format that must people including me could not find the answer in the live viewing.

[@xeroeddie]

I always found it a bit wierd that Vaush adobted so many of Destiny's mannerisms, from whispering fast into the mic during debates and saying Truuuuuuuu a lot, to the point where you see Truuuuuu in his chat all the time. Everything is a copy, from the format to the mannerisms. It sounds like Destiny but without the nuance. Like hearing Creed for the first time back in 2001 and thinking you're hearing Pearl Jam. He's post grunge. He's the Nickelback of breadtube.

[@xeroeddie]

@Don Shepard You're right about me agreeing more with Destiny, a bit more at least. The reason why I find Vaush's takes less nuanced is that he mostly derives at conclusions by watching it through a particular lens. It helps him make sense of the world but other aspects of any given subject is lost by that approach. But I do find that Vaush has some good takes from time to time.

[@miguelzavaleta1911]

I don't find it surprising at all -- by his own admission, he was part of Destiny's audience for a long time. How many of Destiny's positions do you hold yourself?

[@xeroeddie]

@@miguelzavaleta1911 I have no idea. I mean in a broad sense I agree with him. I probably lean more left than he does on some issues. My issue with Vaush is less about his politics and more about his approach. Destiny seems less bound to a particular idiology, which I like more.

[@miguelzavaleta1911]

@@xeroeddie My point was it's impossible to watch a guy like destiny for a long time and not pick up at least some his mannerisms, arguments, etc. That's all.

[@xeroeddie]

@@miguelzavaleta1911 That's probably true, but in Vaush's case the similarity is just uncanny. But he found his niche. He's all the left thought Destiny was. Destiny's lefty arc made a Vaush shaped vaccum.

[@skyefox]

BookSmarts is Destiny's Ryuuk.

[@Kobdzio]

I don't know if you read comments destiny but take what that booksmarts guy said to heart man. I love your content but as a long time viewer I can see things have changed and not all for the better.

[@levi_shutup3440]

Same here dude, it’s kind of got me a little bit depres-tiny. But it’s like he doesn’t even want to be better.

[@lucasztai]

@@levi_shutup3440 😂😂😭

[@xenos_n.]

Depres-tiny 😂

[@eduardosalazar4819]

Yeah I feel the same. But honestly after streaming for over a decade this was bound to happen. If we wait a bit I believe he will get over it on his own, like all emotions this impulse for revenge will fade with time.

[@cazcow]

Destiny: "I'd give myself a 9/10 for handling criticism." Also Destiny: "Yeah, I'll ban someone for good-faith criticism if I'm in a pissy mood."

[@TurntReynolds]

thats that 1/10 my guy ;)

[@cazcow]

@@TurntReynolds lol, fair point.

[@Wobblywiener]

I know this is a meme but he did clarify that 'handling criticism' to him is making an effort to act on it rather than just accepting it and nodding along. He can ban people for being an asshole while still taking that criticism onboard.

[@Wobblywiener]

@Don Shepard Lmao chill, not everything needs to be a meme. You guys try too hard sometimes.

[@jeffwells641]

@Don Shepard So first you don't know what insults are, and now you don't know what jokes are either? Cazcow's post wasn't a joke. Responding to it seriously is totally acceptable. Turnt reynolds' response was a joke, and it was a funny counter. Considering James Larden was obviously talking to cazcow, and not turnt reynolds, I can only assume you don't understand how jokes work. I'm noticing a pattern here in the couple of comments I've seen from you so far.

[@ChichiNaka]

Very Trump-like is Destiny in his "I'm actually the most _______ in this space, the most calm, the most mature, the most fair" Then the classic SC2 destiny "the highest IQ, everyone else is a dumb fuck"

[@elijahgavin6706]

Yeah I noticed the similarity and there’s clearly narcissism at play here

[@CODELIRIOUS-sy8xz]

Shut up you are literally asian

[@CODELIRIOUS-sy8xz]

@@lolololololololololoololol it is

[@damepenn5483]

Yes because bragging is just a Trump thing. Also how would you feel if your character is being attacked by thousands of people, and you know that they have it 100% wrong and just following blindly.

[@FoxfireDraven]

WAIT VAUSH WAS IRISHLADDIE!?

[@user-uq4gr5nl5o]

I love Booksmarts. He's one of the few people who tells it like it is when it comes to Destiny.

[@Nozzoi]

Agreed! 😊

[@candorcore3502]

Honestly plenty of people are willing to tell it like it is - it's not like Destiny comes across as someone you want to shield from critique. Booksmarts' power is in being constructive and occasionally persuasive while he's doing it.

[@Liberater4589]

for the whole toxic criticism thing I feel like destiny doesn't really have a leg to stand on considering his incredibly inflammatory and abrasive comments and criticisms on places like twitter

[@Ivan-qf4mt]

Twitter is an exceptional place for exceptional people.

[@sc6520]

@@Ivan-qf4mt yes

[@unitedfools3493]

You mean calling people sub-human and stuff?

[@yesman2407]

Exactly! He spent something like 5 minutes complaining about people phrasing legit criticism in toxic ways, saying that he doesn’t want to encourage that when that’s LITERALLY what he does on Twitter

[@tking2199]

@@yesman2407 they aren't the same platforms. Twitter has been turned into a wild west poop flinging battle, it's normal to see any convo go that way.

[@Monsteroflopogis]

For some reason, Booksmarts was really annoying to listen to in this one. Destiny: "They were assholes, so fuck 'em" Booksmarts: "But does it really matter that much?" -- I get where he's coming from, but at a certain point, I really don't believe people are worth consideration to the degree that BS expects from other people.

[@Woodzta]

I don't think Booksmarts understands the effects on his own words sometimes. He considered that he was "shooting it straight" but even going by this conversation there's more to it. Calling him "cringy", saying "I can see why people are turned off by you", saying he's a crying little baby throwing a tantrum, malding and acting like a child. It would make sense in an adverserial setting, but "direct" criticism is going to lose its influence with some people when you're simply belittling and insulting the person you want to listen to you.

[@wormengine]

it's because the critique boils down to 'you sound too mean and are too aggressive'

[@darklucas0721]

Eh. Both of those examples are pretty direct evaluations of his rhetoric, which is what Booksmarts is criticizing. Destiny is at least as inflammatory during his conversations so I imagine this is more of an example of him matching his rhetoric.

[@darklucas0721]

@@wormengine He's saying that "sounding too mean and aggressive" is hurting his rhetoric, which is a big problem if he's trying to have good faith conversations

[@verybigbrain723]

You can look through the different destiny book smarts reviews and book smarts uses multiple different tones with destiny. He expressly was trying to be more casual and friendly with destiny in this conversation. He said he was going for that approach in his stream after their talk.

[@BookSmarts]

I've been enjoying being inflammatory with him lately. I know it isn't good for convincing, I advise against it. Just lately, especially after our last talk, I've been enjoying giving up on trying to convince him and just focusing on having fun doing it

[@aes0p895]

destiny is 1000% right about calling a jew "zionist" for no reason that has to do with zionism. i've seen lefties do this as well, and it is pretty analogous to n-slur.

[@sm1921]

This is such a pointless conversation. Booksmarts doesnt really engage with what Destiny is saying at all.

[@keithfilibeck2390]

It's like a first year therapist in training, he's so careful not to comment on any of these issues, simply to avoid being cancelled

[@sm1921]

@@keithfilibeck2390 i feel like hes reading from a script or some sort of manual. And everytime destiny presents any information that this manual doesn't account for he just ignores it and moves on

[@eskimo5274]

Sometimes booksmarts sounds so bad faith with his interpretation of language... "scour the internet" = "look at the subreddit about you/your persona/your job"

[@nwgverified]

Badfaithsmarts

[@justifiably_stupid4998]

Destiny should interview *Richard Spencer* and be as charitable and coddling as people say he needs to be in order to have productive conversations.

[@verybigbrain723]

h-have you seen dpaks interview....

[@verybigbrain723]

@@highlightrelz897 okay but nothing you just said suggests he’s anywhere on the right. Bill fucking marr is probably more on the left than the right. It’s a stupid question

[@justifiably_stupid4998]

I believe that humans have personal agency, free will, and individual rights. Therefore, I can't find a home on the left or the right at the moment. Destiny is on the left but is anti-marxist. Instead of the tyranny of the proletariat he wants a tyranny of the techno-aristocracy.

[@neverusingthisagain2]

@@highlightrelz897 destiny is straight up Atlantic council ideology.

[@tcritt]

@@highlightrelz897 Even Wolff doesn't advocate mandated worker co-ops.

[@AvianRap]

Bookfucker: Ok, let's change the topic, we're not getting anywhere here, so this is not really productive. Chat: PIVOT PIVOT PIVOT SOY OMEGALUL

[@WanBelltrum]

Destiny got debated in this review.

[@TheJohnnySlick]

It was a whole hell of a lot more productive than that Wolff shitshow, i can say that much

[@DaveChappeleIsGod]

@@TheJohnnySlick a 10 hour league stream would be more productive than that conversation lmao

[@TheJohnnySlick]

@@DaveChappeleIsGod I don’t disagree hahaha

[@agentshibe]

I hate it when mom and dad fight.

[@ArcChristelle]

Destiny has extremely solid arguments. However usually when I think of Destiny being spiteful is the total disdain he shows in response to the Left due to how he's been treated. Which mostly includes the overgeneralizations. But I do recognize the desire Destiny has got the Left to build a stronger platform on the foundation of being able to produce sound arguments and charitability.

[@dukedematteo1995]

Destiny just realizes alot of current lefty takes suck.....for instance on history & foreign policy, and finance/economics. And current takes about DC statehood, electoral college, court packing, and changing the Senate.....Destiny correctly views that as a Democrat power play not some principled stance.

[@MClaudiusMarcellus]

@@dukedematteo1995 Oh no, a "power play" by the party in power after a fair election. And you can't even accuse them of wanting to do anything illegal, only that it would violate your sense of propriety. And maybe your principles aren't even good.

[@dukedematteo1995]

@@MClaudiusMarcellus I have no problem with a power play. Just don't pretend its some principled democratic stance that will just coincidentally incredibly help the party you vote for. Thats just dishonest. Just say you want the democrats to grab more power however they can.... That was Destiny's point.

[@DDogg43777]

@@dukedematteo1995 Destiny takes the left-leaning stance in every issue you just mentioned. I thought we were supposed to be focused on real politics, not alternative online opinions...

[@MClaudiusMarcellus]

@@dukedematteo1995 Would you call the Democrats passing the Civil Rights Act a "power play" or power grab? It's not a neutral term, it suggests an abuse of power and then you're also adding that it's unprincipled. In other words you sound very much against the Democratic party agenda, but you have no arguments and you haven't even defined what principles are supposedly being violated. That's dishonest and cowardly. Just say you're fine with Republicans ruthlessly packing the courts and Democrats should do nothing to redress it and this apathy is actually a high principle.

[@s34l_]

49:13 thanks destiny, "Kink Sex Parade" is the name of my new band now

[@sadboipotato3382]

You'll have to collaborate with Ninja Sex Party.

[@sameash3153]

Kids these days just tell their band name to everybody as if I'm not going to steal it.

[@Tabularasa1996]

Damn yall still tripping about the wolff convo.

[@healingv1sion]

The left is still salty

[@josiahclarke3535]

Destiny Derangement is real, bro. Lefty people are apparently just looking to have their preferred voices walk all over their detractors.

[@thatwildmage]

"That same argument could be used for drag" hoooonestly..... Yeah, I don't like drag and the association of it to trans people. Drag is fine, kink is fine, but drag isn't anymore intrinsic or necessary than kinks are for LGBT people. Go ahead and cancel me now. That said, I think kink and drag can be present at pride, they are important parts of people's lives, but that is it, it can be present but not any type of focus or representation. Kink definitely isn't and shouldn't be in the pride umbrella. I would say if you want to make pride a more family friendly environment, which it honestly should be, then kink should be banned from it plain and simple.

[@TheSupermonkeypants]

Are you even gay bro

[@thatwildmage]

@@TheSupermonkeypants I'm gay x2

[@ksilva2848]

Mucho texto plus anime pfp opinion doubly invalidated

[@thatwildmage]

@@ksilva2848 dawg you yourself have an anime PFP. That was the single worst attempt at bait I've ever seen. You're in the wrong community with a brain that smooth.

[@ksilva2848]

@@thatwildmage dAwG, educate yourself maybe? Just because it's drawn doesn't mean it's anime, you're spending to much time on Netflix. Bonus meme, you literally have an anime pfp, therefore your opinion on someone's brain is automatically wrong.

[@bumblebeme]

How can bookmarks say destiny dosent accept criticism. There is literally a permanent segment on his channel with a guy that just criticizes him the whole time. Who else does that?

[@dragonslayer6401]

key word: accept

[@dragonslayer6401]

@Nick Bacigalupo no, what I’m talking about is changing how you act according to the criticism. That’s the only way to accept it, everything else is lip service.

[@dragonslayer6401]

@Nick Bacigalupo can’t tell if ur trolling me. When someone is criticized, who are they supposed to listen to in order to “accept criticism”? The person giving criticism, or some rando in their KZbin comments?

[@theporkin8tor227]

Destiny thinks people think he changes his policy positions just to spite people but that would imply most people care about policy which they absolutely don't they just want to hate the guy they are supposed to

[@itminisaac]

I can't stress enough how much of a Godstiny tier thumbnail this video has

[@shawnbrdlik6213]

Rhetoric arc crashes here 16:00 . Man I know it was joking but again he comes off so jerky here

[@kevinmcdonald6560]

Booksmarts was baiting him with loaded questions and smug giggling the whole time. (A) Booksmarts theoretical advice: a non-alienating, non-belittling rhetorical standard would be a better approach (B) Booksmarts rhetorical practice: '' to imagine Melina [Destiny's wife-to-be] was telling the truth in the other video that you low-key just start crying like a baby......you turn the stream off and you're like: waaaaaa Vaush said this stuff about me, he hurt my feeeelings'' (18:19) ...notice Booksmarts hypocrisy of (A) anti-spite and (B) spiteful personal remark

[@jeffwells641]

@Don Shepard Why would you think Kevin felt belittled? Booksmarts was belittling Destiny... Do you not know what insults are?

[@shawnbrdlik6213]

@@jeffwells641 they both were doing the debate bro thing of like my guy and buddy. I hate when people talk like that it's so obnoxious, or in destiny's case the shallow I love you when he's pissed idk

[@YoutubeMadeMePickHandle]

@Don Shepard when did he say he personally felt belittled?

[@ManicPandaz]

“So how good at you at taking criticism?” “Well I would say I’m a 9, other people say I’m a 4 but they are all idiots and wrong too, so I must be a 9” Said like a true master of taking criticism... The fact that everyone says he bad at taking criticism is the only reason Destiny isn’t a natural 10...

[@eskimo5274]

r/whoosh... you missed the point of what destiny is saying so hard

[@eskimo5274]

The point destiny is making is that in order to answer the question "how well does someone handle criticism?" We need to know what it means to handle criticism. If you use the definition of the ability to listen to criticism stoichally and nothing further, destiny would rate himself a 4 out of 10 which he thinks is how most people would evaluate him. However destiny thinks that's a silly definition, his view is that it doesn't matter if your stoich when recieving criticism, what matters is how you take criticism and internalize it and change yourself based on it, by which he would rate himself 9 and he thinks other people would agree with that if they used that definition, but that isn't a definition most people use. Destiny's whole point is that he probably agrees with other people if you were to align your definition of "ability to take criticism" but most people don't agree on what it means to take criticism well...

[@shockwavesyndrome6433]

This guy talks like the babysitter in the Incredibles.

[@KingAwesomeOutputs]

He does kinda sound like Kari you're right.

[@tootoo2354]

@ant I noticed that too lol. Like multiple reply chains and videos

[@shockwavesyndrome6433]

@Don Shepard I was referring to the guest

[@rafaeldasilva2119]

TSUNDERE DESTINY JUST KILLED ME LMAAAAAAAAO

[@bkrich]

This booksmarts guy tries way too hard to have a unique opinion and be the “hard truth” guy, it comes off super fake.

[@happysfunhouse4388]

I don't like how mean Destiny is to Booksmarts :( its so weird because every other conversation he has he's like "I'm trying to be more rhetorically effective in 2021" and then books makes a review focusing on rhetoric and Destiny ignores it. Idk man, if I was Books I'd be ticked off too

[@TheBeastlyHispanic96]

Defensive Arc never got off the ground as a name :(

[@pithosbruh]

Booksmarts is that guy that can sound like dunkey

[@TheStraightGod]

@@bobpope3656 no have you heard his dunkey impression?

[@eskimo5274]

I didnt realize to scour the internet I just had to check destiny's subreddit and his Twitter. For someone who claims to be all about rhetoric booksmarts seems to completely ignore the implications of a lot of phrases he or anyone else uses

[@jeffwells641]

@Don Shepard No he didn't. Booksmarts said Destiny scours the internet for things to get mad at, and Destiny responded by saying he only checks what people send him - not exactly scouring the internet.

[@Ironraven24]

it is effectively semantics. There are degrees he can look for fights. All booksmart's point was is that "bro im just playing video games bro" clearly doesn't hold much weight as an actual argument against his supposed antagonism toward lefties online because even if he isn't following people on twitter he hates to argue with them, he is still looking at content that explicitly makes him mad and that he disagree with. Obviously a lot of destiny's fans enjoy his outrage, but bookie was just saying to maybe take a step back and chill a bit so when he argues against them he can be a bit more rhetorically effective. As of now, the Kulinski/Vaush narrative of "he is a contrarian who just wants to hate the left" seems to be the accepted narrative on breadtube, and his argument against it just isn't compelling at all. I believe Destiny has a lot of good reasons to be mad at these guys, but he needs to be more rheotrically effective in refuting their smears if he wants to look better in the online political space.

[@basedneolib4703]

Does book-smarts just forget vaush got whitenervosa to bug cake to help her setup vaushs copy cat v.gg. And then vaush cries and whines that destinys copied source code might have a undisclosed exploit, after destiny is raked through the mud.

[@jeffwells641]

Yes. IMO Booksmarts is coming at this pretty disingenuously. He seems to just want Destiny to admit he's wrong about something, no matter what it is.

[@basedneolib4703]

@@jeffwells641 as a web dev it’s always frustrating to hear people who have no clue what the fuck they are talking about, and even better to just accuse destiny telling his fan base of haxxoring vaushs site. Maybe don’t copy his code, idiot 🤔

[@user-sk4ds1rg1z]

@@jeffwells641 super disinenuous

[@jeffwells641]

@joseph smith And why not? If someone stole my shit, and it had a major issue, I'd tell people to fuck with it too. Don't steal other people's shit. This is 2 year old ethics here.

[@erice6827]

@@jeffwells641 Destiny himself said he made it open source to give back to streamer. So I wouldn't call it stealing. I understand where Destiny is coming from that Vaush has built his fan base and setup through Destiny and then turned around and shit on him but Having your fans Dos attack Vaush's website is just wrong and immature. Did you listen to Demon Momma's take on using Destiny's setup? If you did and you understand that stuff can you tell me if she was right at all or is she just full of crap?

[@OMGclueless]

"Destiny changed his policy positions because he's being spiteful towards lefties" is such an effective criticism because Destiny (a) changed his policy positions, as he readily agrees and (b) behaves spitefully, which is impossible to argue against when your position is "I'm really big on reciprocal behavior". Trying to defend against this means trying to argue that both premises are true but they aren't causally linked, which is impossible for most people to hear -- they just don't understand how two true premises can lead to a false conclusion, and never will because they aren't logicians.

[@PacifistBetaFish]

"They arent logicians" Bigbrainwojak.jpg

[@eduardosalazar4819]

Agreed it is a very good attack. I think destiny tries to claim he is not vindictive but that clearly does not work. Too be fair I don't think any of his takes are spite driven but it will be impossible to convince most people otherwise.

[@98danielray]

the problem is the "behaves spitefully" statement applies to all ranges of political ideas (it just so happens most ideas on his platforms are left leaning). you can see this evidence by the way he treated those alt right nuts (not very charitably). people just complain about "the left" (I dk why they like to pretend this is one entity and twitter. almost treated like a cult) because that is their side. that is very clear by the kind of people who make that criticism. you will never see a center-left/right leaning /libertarian/classically left or whatever else person putting forward that idea. it is always crybaby people that come from twitter who mutually respect destinys ideas and feel attacked by his ideas when it refers to them.

[@jeffwells641]

Somehow Booksmarts gives Vaush more credit for getting things wrong the first time and walking them back than he gives Destiny credit for getting it right the first time. That blows my mind.

[@superjosifus]

I think it’s due to him setting a high bar for destiny, because he’s capable of meeting it, but I can see how that can fuck w people.

[@pokedonut5945]

It's just frustrating though because book smarts never will give destiny any credit. Which feeds into the narrative that destiny is this uncharitable spiteful person to lefties.

[@pokedonut5945]

Love booksmarts though I just find these convos frustrating at times

[@icaruscell3080]

@@pokedonut5945 I mean, Book does give destiny a good bit of credit. Like in his Wolff review he had an entire section on what destiny did right. But he is a rhetoric critique channel so he will always focus more on the negatives, and he also covers destiny more than other creators because its what he is based around. When Book comes into these convos the point is that he is critiquing destiny, it doesn't make sense for him to jerk off Destiny in the convos.

[@brenbread9812]

@@pokedonut5945if you watch his vods he gives destiny hours and hours of credit during the line-by-lines. next to the criticisms, but only the criticisms get clipped. also i feel like criticisms would be more important to destiny than being gassed up.

[@adamtrott78]

I was pissed off when destiny wouldn’t talk to vaush and I’m pissed off now that vaush won’t talk to destiny

[@KeyOfWoe]

It's kinda frustrating to hear Booksmarts at 1:12:13 try and like, gotcha Destiny on the whole "Spite" angle. To say that Destiny is spiteful for matching the energy of people coming at him is a ridiculous joke. At that point it's an admission that everyone else is spite driven towards Destiny as well. And it's insane to think that someone who gets attacked, constantly, by all these different groups shouldn't be able to fire back using the exact same standards they're using for him, because that makes him too mean and now he's just such a spiteful guy who's out to get people. Which again, Destiny already clarified is not the point Vaush wanted to even make when he called him spite driven anyway, because that was about policy views, and not necessarily interactions. Just feels like a such a meme. Like Booksmarts just wants Destiny to admit he's mean to people and shouldn't be.

[@erice6827]

You don't think Destiny having people in his community do a Dos attack on Vaush's website spiteful?

[@erice6827]

@Nick Bacigalupo Of course spite is warranted in certain circumstances. Just to be clear I don't like Vaush and I like Destiny. Vaush wasn't responsible for Destiny losing his partnership. I know that his Gf is one of many who complained about Destiny's remarks regarding mowing down protesters. We both know that he was being hyperbolic and didn't actually mean what he said and in my opinion I think it was bs that he lost his partnership with Twitch. That said Twitch has the right to do what they did and in the end Destiny is responsible for what he says on stream. Unfortunately Destiny has made a lot of enemies and those haters will jump on any opportunity to ruin his life. I don't think it's right or fair but I also don't think having his followers D Dos Vaush's website is justified. I personally would like to see Destiny be bigger and reach more people because I agree with most of his takes. I also think the constant harrassment is getting to him and because of that is fuse keeps getting shorter and shorter.

[@erice6827]

@Nick Bacigalupo I can see justification on being spiteful to people like Kaseytron or anyone else that has unjustly targeted him with harrassment. Even though there's justification on being spiteful to certain people I don't think it does him any good. He treats all lefties with such contempt and shits on them every chance he gets. Because of this he continues to create more and more enemies and the cycle continues. I don't know if he's lying to Booksmarts or he's lying to himself but he doesn't seem to acknowledge his spiteful behavior. I know its easy for me to criticize his behaviors because I'm not the one who is dealing with all the bs. I just think he is better off both mentally and financially not to roll in the mud with these haters.

[@DavyManners]

The way this dude speaks infuriates me.

[@Localpref416]

He’s very rude then whenever Destiny says almost anything he starts to get very defensive. I feel like the thumbnail is very accurate.

[@Segphalt]

Booksmarts coming in hammered after figuring out professors might not be all that smart... It's okay Booksmarts, I too have been drunk before.

[@ChronicDreamer1st]

As someone neutral in that I had no prior knowledge of Wolfe, in that debate he came across as very condescending and egotistical as well as preachy.

[@stopaskingforrealnames3853]

And slow.... literally slow.

[@ChronicDreamer1st]

It was painful, and being a professor is no excuse. If all the horsemen could speak quickly enough he can surely do it.

[@combocancel6041]

Booksmarts convos are great

[@humpadumpaa]

Dam, Booksmarts is really constructive.

[@RangaXT666]

I hope you were being sarcastic. But given the general populous, it's highly unlikely 😅

[@richardeknormis7688]

Why is it okay for all these lefties to shit on destiny but not okay for him to respond/shit on them back? Booksmarts entire argument is “well you’re mean and you shouldn’t be mean even when people are mean to you” … okay guy

[@Balldropper]

What was Vaush and Destiny's last conversation?

[@AspiringDevil]

I can't stand this crap. Why is the responsibility on Destiny to baby Wolf. Destiny didn't antagonize Wolf, asked very basic questions, & Wolf was completely unable to talk like a human or answer what even is he's talking about. It should be black pilling to see Richard Wolf be this incapable of answering any questions about the field he is supposed to be an authority on. The idea a debater should be "go with the flow & vibe" with they're opponent especially when they are the 1st one to loose they're cool.

[@Alic4444]

"Of course I'm going to hold people to the same standards that I'm used to... standards that I angrily complain about and attack as being destructive to society and poisonous to intelligent discourse."

[@eduardosalazar4819]

Well that why book was calling him vindictive. I think most people can see that, but at the same time I feel like it's understandable considering the shit he has taken over the years. Honestly I feel like this chapter is a bit of a breather for destiny where he is upset and will do whatever he wants without care until he fully gets over it.

[@liamsambrook3057]

@Don Shepard I mean I’d assume this person is talking about people destiny helped out irl who then fucked him over but go off I guess

[@meks1478]

@@liamsambrook3057 vaush never fucked him over.

[@eskimo5274]

I dont think destiny thinks the standards are destructive or poisonous. But the way people interact with them are... you would think if someone had a standard and you tried to hold them to it they wouldn't immediately drop those standards for themselves or people they agree with, but that's what destiny has found

[@liamsambrook3057]

@Don Shepard I mean maybe that's what you're talking about. But doesn't really seem like anyone else is buddy

[@Guitarmaster7272]

Did this dude just straight-up say that some people who get banned by a popular streamer for the first time might get so upset that they'll shoot senators, wtf??

[@dylankempthorne]

Was a joke

[@dylankempthorne]

@Nick Bacigalupo how is saying they'll shoot up senators racist????

[@dylankempthorne]

@Nick Bacigalupo how is that joke offensive. He's being hyperbolic, something I would think destiny fans would understand. He doesn't mean it literally, he just means people act crazy when they get banned sometimes. How is that anywhere close to making a racist joke?

[@dylankempthorne]

@Nick Bacigalupo it's an exaggeration. Is that better you pedantic baby 👶

[@dylankempthorne]

@Nick Bacigalupo wow butt hurt? Is that homophopic? Just because it's a joke doesn't make it ok

[@LoreReloaded]

Booksmarts comes off pretty desperate to me here. “Watch my stuff! Watch my stuff!”

[@swapneilmishra5510]

If only he was streetsmarts

[@posiepants664]

yes, idk this guy but immediate bad taste in my mouth

[@exhermit]

@@bobpope3656 good thing he also repeatedly criticised Wolfe. You can hold both people to account, right? Critiquing one side doesn’t deem the other side faultless.

[@gubertdubert4817]

@@posiepants664 I never trust and immediately despise people who sound like they're always smiling when they they talk

[@exhermit]

@@bobpope3656 no triggering. I read your entire *looks at comment again* three lines, and I guess your weird phrasing made it seem like you thought BS has a bias or was coming down so hard on Destiny that his criticism for Wolff seemed absent? If you want to explain, that would be helpful

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

Destiny sounding like he's at the fucking dentist.

[@Darksvnn78]

Booksmarts is a very well spoken person

[@aes0p895]

I think it's funny that Destiny doesn't think he bans too much. It was actually one of the first things I noticed about him lol.

[@Trinket430]

The policy positions destiny holds aren't based on spite, but the aggressive way he fights for them and the lack of charitability towards others during those takes are why people view him as spiteful. It's probably actually about engagement though. He's rewarded by being spiteful because it drives those views and clicks.

[@eduardosalazar4819]

This take sure feels more accurate too me. Though a doubt he does this for the views. At this point I honestly feel he just despises lefties (somewhat justifiably, though some of his actions are not).

[@Trinket430]

@@eduardosalazar4819 I expect somewhere in his subconscious it's for the engagement. Maybe not the "views" but more people seek him out, ask for his takes, create easy content for him, etc. The less charitable he is, the longer that lasts and the more views he ends up getting. It's not a bad thing necessarily (and it is his job), but it has consequences.

[@98danielray]

he has always done that. thats why he is a political streamer. people trying to claim that is "against the left" are a bit smoothbrained.

[@joebob6387]

I found the last bit interesting. I feel like Destiny is "right" when he says he's allowed to retaliate with equal force when calling people out. However I also think it contributes to his negative perception among many communities. Maybe the solution might be to burn half the bridge and leave some of it left to repair.

[@Murkshadow]

People will ultimately come down hard on anyone with a spine. That's why, for instance, companies most of the time respond to PR issues by immediately getting rid of the subject of criticism whether or not it was valid. It's a difficult thing in the streamer world because networking is so important content creators will instinctively avoid conflict and hence the reason "apology videos" are so stereotypical. In the end, it just comes down to how profitable you want to be versus how much integrity you want to keep. Some value more than the other, few try and keep a balance.

[@josiahclarke3535]

@@Murkshadow big true Everyone wants hug boxes. If you create any friction or stand up for yourself then wew lad

[@josephb456]

It seems to me that Destiny is often held to this radically obtuse standard that is so subjective and fanatically oppositional ONLY when it serves the left in some way. I am on the left, and being totally sick and tired of the endless moralizing is valid. It ostracizes a HUGE contingent of potential allies and fence sitters en mass, and the animosity is inexcusable.

[@recoilAbs]

if only the left would be more welcoming to people who are for right wing militias killing proterters...

[@Inuhater]

Has destiny’s media team created a podcast feed for these?

[@GayByProxy]

Booksmart is a very fitting name for someone so clueless about how normal human interactions work, like the naive takes on destinys words or actions and what he considers "mistakes" or "wrong" shows he neither understands how people operate towards others or the implications of letting attack you freely. And he obviously doesn't understand what a brand is. And his generous acceptance of things he has heard as valid without vetting is irritating, rattling off every attack or criticism on its face value , and then returning to the initial claim even after destiny outlines with context why its either a lie, misleading or dubious.

[@WhoBlah21]

Nah... Destiny is the one who's clueless about how normal humans interact, he even admits it numerous times. The fact that someone like Booksmarts has to constantly point out his rhetorical flaws only for Destiny to slowly agree with him in days, is pretty bad on Destiny's part.

[@dankwarmouse6248]

Around 55 minutes, I think a better example Steven should use is like how Trump said that Hispanic judge can't be impartial on immigration. That was cringe as fuck, as is immediately labelling a jewish person as a zionist because they didn't wholesale reject Israel's existence.

[@Trecesolotienesdos]

i agree with destinry. pride events aren't meant to be inherently kink. being gay or lgbt isn';t about kink. it sends a bad image and pride parades are too fucking lewd.

[@Ironraven24]

You know the overwhelming majority of pride parades don’t involve kink at all right?

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

destiny did seem to hand wave away a lot of criticism basically saying "I'm only human what do you want." engage man, dont deflect.

[@PacifistBetaFish]

He doesnt seem to extend the "I'm only human" defense to all of the other people who are supposedly 'held to different standards' than him.

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

@@PacifistBetaFish yeah this conversation imo highlights exactly why people call destiny uncharitable. he holds others to a different standard.

[@Marusinae]

We all are more biased towards ourselves. We're only human.

[@zyto7904]

@@PacifistBetaFish When?

[@johnleoks7642]

@@WapitalismandWreedom People hold him to a different standard too. It’s all fair game.

[@deuge]

It seems very weird to bring up the fact that you unban a tonne of people as defense of you not being over-sensitive to criticism - isn’t it more like evidence against you? :P There’s an acknowledgement at least subconsciously that these people are not being fairly banned

[@eduardosalazar4819]

I think the point he was trying to make is that he malds and bans people, but that does not mean he wants to censor criticism, so he unbans them. It's kinda like a way to amend a personality flaw.

[@RealFreedomMG]

It's not just Destiny who bans people in his chats. He's got mods in KZbin, Twitch and his own website.

[@98danielray]

this community is so diverse that people get to even talk about banning standards. that adds to the point people are not in general unfairly banned.

[@dinothunder629]

kaceytron is a better friend to bob7 than vaush is to destiny

[@edwardedward842]

Comically BS has pretty bad rhetoric in some ways. Destiny does this too but not as much anymore but Vaush and BS do it alot. When they get a response they don't agree with or like they often do the forced laughter thing or slide in a patronizing insult these things are far worse then swearing because its pure condescending behavior with no positive gain from it. I understand shitty audiences since i don't think a single online "debater" has a good audience by miles will like this and pretend since its their own low IQ responses too that it was a good swing but anyone with a functioning level of intelligence can see it for the lowly action it was. BS feels like someone who larps for good faith but in reality tilts super easily.

[@jasonobodoggz2691]

You did see that BS and D here were going back and forth ribbing each other right? They were both doing it, quipping at each other. Were you not paying attention? Guess not.

[@josiahclarke3535]

Destiny's take on the LGBT community/Pride Parade stuff is 101% on point. Booksmarts is way off the mark. Why make an event about acceptance into a morbid display of sex acts and sexual activity as a whole?

[@billdobbing1999]

this guy was uncharacteristically assmad this time round

[@RangaXT666]

Yessss. Bugger needs to go watch his own rhetoric for trying lesson other people on their rhetoric. He was very on the offensive while passing snide comments while laughing it off as jokes 🤢

[@dylankempthorne]

@@RangaXT666 to try to defend bookie here, he said after this that he was trying to talk to Steven more like a friend and less like a rhetoric only person

[@animagamer2]

As someone who pops in Bookie's stream from time to time, it wasn't unintentional. The first time they tried to talk about his performance in the Wolff debate Booksmarts couldn't make any sort of headway until he started being more confrontational. Afterward, he reflected saying that while it feels bad and awkward in the moment because, believe it or not, he actually likes Steven a lot and doesn't want to be an ass to him. But if the only way he can get Steven to respond to his criticisms is publicly calling him out on his unwillingness to engage then he's going to try to do more that going forward and see how what goes for him. Just what I remember from the stream though, you guys can all go watch it on his YT channel yourself. Everything is neatly time-stamped and everything.

[@RangaXT666]

Booksmart seemed so entitled to a lot of things. Do more about community, do more, do more, think about what you can do more. Like why? Is booksmart going to take responsibility if destiny tries to do more for his community and it becomes toxic? If it falls apart? I don't know why anyone would claim for such things when they literally have nothing to lose from it. It was really hard to watch this video. And I'm only halfway through. 😔

[@Liberater4589]

also for the zionist thing generally at least how I understand it is in the modern sense someone who supports Israel in the conflict against Palestine, I honestly have no idea where destiny got this definition or whatever that zionism is only used as an anti semitic insult or something when its used by almost everyone I can think of to describe pro Israel and or anti Palestinian position, like Ben shapiro is a zionist, not because he's a jew but because of his view on palestine

[@xenos_n.]

Destiny is just wrong.

[@lmaonicebud]

Yeah it really isn't a slur. Saying it's anywhere close to the n-word is crazy.

[@davidcampos8032]

If you call a Jew a Zionist FOR no other reason but they are Jewish and don’t agree with you good luck with that one it’s obvious and sad y’all vaush simps can’t see that. Destiny has many flaws and even some he doesn’t even recognize but the delusion of Vaush being free of criticism is beyond crazy to me.

[@xenos_n.]

@@davidcampos8032 calling people Vaush simps for having a different opinion than Destiny is such a Destiny-simp thing to do.

[@Liberater4589]

@@davidcampos8032 from what I understand (and this is from years ago so he could have changed his mind or something) Dpak generally is anti Palestinian and pro Israel in the conflict and in the clip vaush was responding to pakman accused the charity vaush was raising funds for were working with terrorists or something like that and vaush then immediately clarified that wasn't the right word

[@liamandrew2481]

Man I love bookie, hope this rhetoric review/interview becomes a staple

[@Nozzoi]

Bookie is great!

[@Ironraven24]

@Lil Rawri you have been intellectually outpaced sorry sweaty

[@kevinmcdonald6560]

BOOKSMARTS: stop using spite-driven rhetoric ALSO BOOKSMARTS TOTALLY NOT USING SPITE-DRIVEN RHETORIC: ''I Melina [Destiny's wife-to-be] was telling the truth in the other video that you low-key just start crying like a baby...hahahahaha...you turn the stream off and you're like: waaaaaa Vaush said this stuff about me, he hurt my feeeelings'' (18:19)

[@kevinmcdonald6560]

CORRECTION, what Booksmarts said was: ''I Melina [Destiny's wife-to-be] was telling the truth in the other video that you low-key just start crying like a baby...hahahahaha...you turn the stream off and you're like: waaaaaa Vaush said this stuff about me, he hurt my feeeelings'' (18:19)

[@Ironraven24]

@@kevinmcdonald6560 it’s a joke dummy

[@KeCk60]

coming back to this video well over a year later and jesus christ booksmarts is so wrong about every single thing he says here. Like, im actually glad we don't get booksmarts talks anymore lmao *EDIT* It legit just gets worse too, he is so bad faith its not even funny... well.. either that or he's just completely unable to follow a basic conversation. Both scenarios would not be surprising to me... fuck

[@Hawquin]

I feel like booksmarts goes to destiny because he knows destiny might actually listen and work on making things better while if he went to basically anyone else they'd just bullshit and lie for optics with nothing changing. I dont feel like destiny should be the one to put in more effort. Fuck fake people.

[@Hawquin]

@Don Shepard hey buddy I said I feel like he goes to him for that. I know what the dude said. Yet he still goes to destiny to try must be a reason. Think for yourself dude lol. I actually listen to them and come up with my own opinions.