Boundaries: "I Can't Ask Why?"

[@0hAHGahmi]

Former sex worker here, I think her refusal to send anything was an effort to separate the 'serious' guys from the guys who just want her to work for free. By the time a 'dating' situation turns serious, there would hopefully be enough trust built up that she'd know he's not just trying to play her, since he's stuck around while she refused these requests for however long. Then the conversations about whether she'll do what she does at work with him can happen.

[@ArcChristelle]

I appreciate this explanation, I would've NEVER put that together ngl. Now I can empathize with the position.

[@angelolagussa1312]

Nobody wants to date somebody who's sending nudes out to strangers but can't get none themselves lol. Ppl shouldnt date sex workers if that bothers them.

[@allforthenukie]

Asking why a boundary exists isn't unethical, but it becomes impolite when the "why" is asked repeatedly. The guy in that situation was rude, but thats about it

[@NotGahruvey]

He just wanted an understanding… if thats his girl and she takin pics but won’t let him see them(which is fine) its cool to understand why, to also better understand her.

[@zero1188]

Nothing wrong with asking questions, so you can understand

[@RebornLegacy]

@@NotGahruvey I think you're way too generous to the man here. It's pretty obvious she's unconformable with explaining why. Why pry? I feel like it's much cooler and understanding to respect people's boundaries.

[@fixieroy]

@@RebornLegacy Yeah but they explained that she did it in the past. So its not crazy to wonder why/ what changed. But i do agree with not pressing past the second No. But he's not wrong to ask the 1st time.

[@adriarchy]

Just a regular gal here and when guys ask for that stuff when you're just dm'ing its always a red flag lol it happens like 99% of the convos i have online and they always try to be so inconspicous asking for a "picture" first. Asking to see her work just sounded like a different version. And also yeah i heard that nuclear family dogma in there for sure.

[@thatotherblackkid]

It could just be the toxic people pleaser in me, but I feel its more odd that she considered that sexual harassment than him overstepping boundaries and being weird. Simply saying, "I don't feel comfortable sharing those with you", would be more than enough to answer his question of why and if he continued to press then I would see that as harassment. As it stands, it looks like he's just trying to effectively communicate and understand her and her boundaries while shes just relying on non communication to communicate, which is always a slippery slope despite what she or others may feel is the obvious social cue. As you guys brought up, he even mentioned that he's had to ask followup questions to get full answers from her before. The chef example is perfect for this situation. If a chef were to have the same energy she did by simply saying No to cooking for me despite cooking small snacks before and refusing to elaborate further, then saying I was being demanding because I asked why not, I feel the chef would be the one at fault here for being an ineffective communicator.

[@RebornLegacy]

How is she is not communicating? She's just not explaining why and no is complete answer.

[@angelolagussa1312]

It's literally not sexual harassment. He could literally pay and see the shit he was asking for. That's literally her business thought so yeah what you expect. You have to learn when to just take no as answer, nobody owes you explanations, generally if they don't want to give you one they don't like you. But people feel entitled to sex workers especially.

[@jjjiiddppeew1810]

When you said “I think we have like 15% of non-black people in our audience”.I thought how surprised you would be to know where I’m from cause I’m not even from an English-speaking country and we have 0% of black people here.Ive never even seen a black person in my life but I love your podcast and I’ve been watching for years as I’m learning English.Im a Chechen girl and I live in Chechnya (we’re a part of Russia cause they occupied us).

[@makaveli0_0]

the internet is an amazing place lol welcome to american side of youtube lol

[@jjjiiddppeew1810]

@@makaveli0_0 haha yes thank you

[@Bamosteel]

Bruh I'm from Kurdistan 😂

[@jjjiiddppeew1810]

@@Bamosteel West,South,East or North?I’ve actually been to the Turkish part of Kurdistan.(I’m not sure if that’s the correct way to say it,sorry)

[@Bamosteel]

@@jjjiiddppeew1810 we usually just use north west east south I'm from South Kurdistan (Iraqi part)

[@vagabanda11]

However rich you are… with 5+ kids you simply don’t have enough time or even mental space for each kid. Speaking from experience.

[@ChefWillChill]

Focusing on the “why” instead of the “No” I think is the problem. That No needs to be read into, cuz she was telegraphing it was over. So really everything after that was bargaining. To put it another way Anyone in sales knows when they are being Haggled.

[@MIent1313]

Is it wrong ask why because of the "spicy" context or just in general? As a person that has a strong desire to understand "why" I struggle to see where he went wrong other than again based on the spicy context

[@Griot-Guild]

Imo 1. He kept asking 2. She didn't like him ​@@MIent1313

[@jaccl4539]

there was no problem to begin with. Just two incompatible people figuring that out in real time - one person trying to understand another and another upset and mischaracterized the situation to the masses. Nothing wrong with clarity regardless who is uncomfortable. Also either person was free to leave the conversation and did. We got to stop with this narrative of any situation being unwanted, awkward or uncomfortable default being harassment or some trauma.

[@XeniasWorld]

Really enjoyed the vibe tonight

[@joalnith]

I think it is definitely a problem how we blanket ascribe creepy to men that aren’t socially intelligent. Creepy exists. But we need to separate men that are just socially inept from creepy. Our society just doesn’t really put much emphasis on men learning social queues in a healthy way. No one is teaching this stuff. So they go and take advice from people like Andrew Tate. I will say this is a good video toward that effort.

[@RebornLegacy]

"I think it is definitely a problem how we blanket ascribe creepy to men that aren’t socially intelligent" Nahhh. Not really. How is that a widespread problem at all? Can you give some examples? Cuz sexual harassment is a MASSIVE issue. I don't think the problem is that we're too unfair to men.

[@jaccl4539]

@@RebornLegacy your proving the point - nothing about this is sexual harassment which is the issue and people like you ascribing it as such proves your making the situation creepy when its not. Simply because you feel that way doesn't make it the case - Thus making something creepy which otherwise would not be.

[@RebornLegacy]

@@jaccl4539 I didn't say this particular case is sexual harassment. But its definitely weird and creepy. If someone has a sexual boundary you should respect: not challenge it. What is difficult about this to understand?

[@jaccl4539]

@@RebornLegacy I don't know who needs to hear this: For the last time, asking about anyones boundary of anything is not disrespecting a boundary - That's weird and creepy, making other people accountable for already understanding your boundary.

[@RebornLegacy]

@@jaccl4539 It is weird and creepy when the person ALREADY explained that they don't want to explain why. Not sure who needs to hear this, but NO is a complete answer. If you're an empathetic, non-creepy dude, and a women has already told you NO to something you're doing then STOP. For Christ sakes, this is not rocket science.

[@Kcoldraz]

35:03 I don't agree Eddie. Why at the moment seems more appropriate for me. "Why" months later seems just sounds like you're pestering the person over a prolonged period. But If the person says "no" and I don't want to talk about it. Then I would understand why "why" is inappropriate.

[@b.c.9619]

I think it can be taken either way. If you like someone, it can be moreso defended or seen as more of a positive why. If you don't like someone or don't care much about them, then it can be seen as more pestering and less of a negative why being used against you. I also think there are other factors to consider as well.

[@Kcoldraz]

That just goes with Eddie's "being unattractive is creepy" idea. Why I totally agree with. I mean, we do tend to be less charitable when we don't find a person attractive. And we give way more of a leeway to people we find attractive.

[@b.c.9619]

@@Kcoldraz Yeah it is adjacent to Eddie's point, but it can be for reason not around looks. It's just the point that people do that. Like that movie *it ends with us*. Somethings will be acceptable under certain pretenses. It just so happens that being attractive helps to have more favorable outcomes.

[@jalenchildress716]

Seth Rogen was totally in Super Bad as a cop 😂

[@KuntaKinte145]

45:18: As someone that works in the service industry that is the PERFECT analogy! People always ask me to cook for them and if I like you I’m more liable to do it. But in the same breath I’m making people food like 40+ hours a week. I do NOT want to be making you pasta from scratch after a shitty brunch service mamas sorry

[@Kcoldraz]

43:31 Okay I don't get why people would expect people to do work things in their personal life. That just sounds like that common comedian anecdote to me "Say something funny".

[@Capnsb]

I think one of the things we forget is that time is more valuable than money in the long run. People have come from very poor families but recall the time they played baseball with their parents on some random weekend 20 years ago more than a kid who didn't receive that but has memories of a parent buying them all the gifts they wanted but didn't have time to actually play with them.

[@KL-ii6dt]

The first story is just pure brain rot. People are allowed to ask questions, full stop. Its fine to have boundaries, its healthy to have boundaries, it is not okay or healthy to expect everyone to immediately conform to the way that you want things to be. One of the biggest problem with our current culture is that the addiction to clout. People love to be offended and victimized so much that they will create drama in where none exists. This is a perfect example of this, a conversation between two adults who are flirtatious where one person decides to throw up a random boundary and refuses to elaborate is a nuisance. But when that person then goes on to paint a false narrative it becomes narcissism. To define a sexual question within a sexual context as sexual harrassment is to stretch the term so far that it effectively means nothing.

[@Marthroy9000]

That makes sense in certain context (sharing a home for example), but in the case of sharing videos and pictures with someone I'd say it's different.

[@KL-ii6dt]

​@@Marthroy9000can you elaborate? Which part of the comment are you responding to?

[@Marthroy9000]

@@KL-ii6dt when I commented, the first paragraph was the only one I saw. That's what I'm responding to. I think that setting a boundary sexually should be respected immediately and if that means that you're not getting what you want out of the relationship, you should end it.

[@madmann1000]

Agreed. That interaction didn’t need to be made for public consumption. Also, people are forgetting that his friend stated cam and the young lady had a sexual relationship, so he’s asking why in the confinement of an already established bond and chemistr To call this interaction sexual harassment is dangerous and really bordering on the lines of ableism when you factor how neurodivergent people tend to question things. He simply asked why and she went on a tangent, even when he tried to move on.

[@RebornLegacy]

"a conversation between two adults who are flirtatious where one person decides to throw up a random boundary and refuses to elaborate is a nuisance" What? Do you think she came up with the boundary on the spot??? And who is it a nuisance to? The rude guy who won't stop trying to pry? Who cares. "To define a sexual question within a sexual context as sexual harrassment is to stretch the term so far that it effectively means nothing." Lmao, just because you're in a sexual context with someone doesn't mean anything goes. Bro, you mfers sound r*py as hell.

[@stupidrules1000]

the beginning of this is such a bizarre take. How do you jump directly to assuming things about his motives beyond what is actually stated? We have moved to this place of accepting as acceptable the idea that we should read people's minds as a form of communication. that is weird. he asked her if she was comfortable doing a specific thing. she said no to that specific thing. he asked about another related thing. she gave a light weight aggressive and universal amd perpetual no. he asked, why? Then he did not press the why. he got attacked for asking why, and he defended the capacity to ask someone why. He did not keep pressing her to do the thing he asked. he did not try to find ways around it. he asked her why...and she bugged out. How do you have adult communication if you cannot ask people that you have a long standing relationship with, questions to understand their reasoning? this is NOT him meeting a stranger and asking for her number and he keeps pressing. this is someone that you are talking to everyday for months in a romantic capacity. You can, and should, ask that person "why" on a regular basis.

[@Kcoldraz]

23:20 It's probably because I'm a guy. But I don't really see anything wrong about asking "why no". I just don't get why she said "no is obvious" I mean if she said because "I don't want to" them that I get. But this "it's obvious" is just vague AF for me. If she dont want to is her right and understandable but are men not really supposed to clarify shit. Although I do understand if the guy was pestering her or is that all in the single moment.

[@JROB447]

I think it could’ve been as simple as “ I don’t like sharing my work with romantic interests”. And the guy would’ve understood. He should’ve stopped sooner but she could’ve communicated better instead of being defensive

[@butterflymage5623]

@@JROB447I mean he stopped pretty quick, most of the convo was on his part was explaining why he asked why after she said she didn’t understand why he asked why.

[@jaccl4539]

there is nothing wrong. Don't deal with these type of people or cultures. This is normal behavior: Hey, want to go to Starbucks? No thanks-well, why not ? (This group now believes asking why not is harassment.) If people are to sensitive, don't have time, or are willing to explain themselves, there not a good fit or worth your time. This is only an issue because she wanted to cry wolf, and now he needs to defend himself in public. This is only going to happen more and more as this new group becomes more sensitive. Next, looking to long , breathing to loud, or being attracted in the first place is a bother to someone. Regardless doesn't make it harassment. Being in a awkward situation happens; stop falling for this narrative of an every-bad encounter becomes an attack or trauma.

[@Griot-Guild]

She was being vague, I think she just hates men tbh. Or just hated him, some people will act like they like you when they hate you, they tend to be vague when they do that because they don't want you to have closure or clarity. He was in the wrong for pushing his point imo, if you deal with someone who has you confused like her run immediately

[@Ggeekz]

I think involment is complicated but bonding will be hard. Imagine being a kid with a time slot to do parenting with. Like forget pleasantries, you cant even talk about your mean teacher for too long because his next kids slot is soon, he your slot with shorten because he wants more kids. Having busy parents means less present, having tonnes of siblings means being less present

[@michaeljmyers1995]

Looking way into the conversation. She was rude for just saying "no is self explanatory" the fuck you mean self explanatory 😂 it's not if I have to ask why.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

“No” is self explanatory because it means that is your answer. The “trying to understand why” is coming from a good place; it rarely. It’s coming from a place, not of understanding, but judging her reasons and decision.

[@elijahclaude3413]

I def think the nuclear family thing needs to end. But freaking harems and having kids with multiple people that you aren't in community with is NOT the way. We need to break back alloparenting!! Communal parenting!! We need to also learn more about ethical non-monogamy. Both parties in a relationship should have the freedom to be with other people if that's what yall tryna do. If a dude wants to have multiple baby mamas he BETTER be open to any of those women also having multiple baby daddies. But ideally, yall all shouldn't be just having kids for the hell of it, they should all be community together and only have kids with people who you can trust to be good, active parents.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

25:30 These are great points, sounds like a guy who wanted a more overt rejection so he knows which way to go, and she wouldn't give that. They both sound equally in the wrong from the info we have, however, I would not be surprised if he acted too thirsty a lot with a lot of other women, so in greater context, he's a problem. I think this is probably a tip of an iceberg.

[@angelolagussa1312]

They both suck.

[@tommytang39]

whoa that cooking by musashi shout out lol

[@Garashima]

I thinks it's pretty much a given that children do better having two or more parental figures in the home given the research. However I definitely notice alot people seem to associate marriage/traditional nuclear families specifically as being integral to ideal child rearing.

[@stupidrules1000]

Also, do you really view relationships as sales pitches? Because I don't.

[@questioningespecialy9107]

44:31 "lie to me" discourse~

[@joalnith]

38:24 she didn’t say no in the context. She told him she would never send him sexual photos/videos. Pretty clear in this instance that she probably wasn’t interested. I can see a woman, sex worker or otherwise, saying something like that if she was interested.

[@Villainyjustified]

Don’t date or have parasocial relationships with sex workers and boom you don’t have to deal with any of this 😂

[@angelolagussa1312]

Agreed 100%. Idk how people date like that. He felt entitled to answers too though.

[@Kcoldraz]

58:12 I feel so conflicted about this good parent thing. I was raised with great independence even when I was young. And I think that I turned out okay. And not having kids myself so I don't know how to judge, appropriate parenting.

[@pcharl01]

Didn't Cam say that all of his kids live with him? So not all of the moms live with him unless i misconstrued other parts of the interview.

[@TurtleDad-l8g]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 "which part?" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Seiryu64]

Honestly, if everyone would've just taken Crocodile Cam at what he said instead of spinning a whole narrative around what you *think* he meant, none of this would've been turned into a whole saga. Sometimes, "Why?" is just that and not a deceptive attempt at manipulating someone's actions. Now, this dude has been labeled all manner of reprehensible shit for seeking to know more about someone he liked. And he wasn't even that clumsy about it. He sought to shift away from the topic once he realized that she was *upset* upset by it rather than harp on in any effort to push her to do anything. So, if anybody is in the wrong here, it's not Cam

[@qcktap23]

Nothing is wrong with asking why, there is a reason for 99% of things and just because you don't want to or can't articulate yourself as to the reason is a you problem, and you could just say that you don't feel comfortable saying why. Else, its just manipulative. If he would have ghosted her after that childish shit she would have talked about him like a dog still. He was really trying to COMMUNICATE with her and she wasn't.

[@HybridKrossKitsu]

I would say when it comes to dating a sex worker. I have 0 experience lol but I wouldn't exactly expect them to do the most extravagant things in bed off the bat, because porn is mostly acting. After performing dramatically all day, it would wild to expect that all times when you get home. It also is a conversation to be had from the jump on expectations and boundaries. Their chat seemed like it fizzled. If theyvshwred nudes and such and then suddenly it stops, I would be curious as to if they were no longer interested, but like Edward said, that becomes a slippery slop of "You lre not sending nudes. You don't like me. Woe is me. Its over" and then its weird. "What are we?"

[@Taylor987-h8j]

I wish you would have addressed Cam's desire to have more kids by potentially more women.

[@bmosley45]

I will not ever try to denigrate sex workers, but if you date a sex worker, you better date em with a "loose hold" -- be easy, not clingy, just enjoy what they give you, and not grasp like this Cam dude here. Either you accept it or say no and walk away from her. Dont grasp at people who aint feelin you the way you want them to. Move on.

[@jaccl4539]

sounds like a storyboard for a full time john not someone thats dating a person - Sad what we become to simply say everything is acceptable. A few years ago if a man or women explained that was there relationship you would say they were being used. Even still if it was your average man and he made those demands on a partner today with the same principles you would call that abuse. Strange times

[@angelolagussa1312]

I wouldn't even seriously date a sex worker. I don't know why people would bother unless they're also one or understand how that's gonna work out.

[@J0eIsTekkenical]

Nah I know a toilet hate to see Eddie coming, like in both ways after that take. Jesus man lol

[@NatnaelSeifu-fj5fd]

I dont know if you guys genuinely believe what you were saying on the cam situation or were trying to be allies or sth because you think the situation deserved something like that but the guy did not do anything wrong. Assuming they had a running relationship, asking your girl why she changed her habitual sending of pictures (even asking several times) is NOT sexual harassment. Labeling this sexual harassment is a spit on actual sexual harassment people gotta deal with. The only person that was not accountable here is the girl who weaponized the term sexual harassment instead of being clear about her obviously dwindled feelings about the dude.

[@Chazzmatazz]

The idea that asking "Why?" a few times can be construed as sexual harassment is wild to me.

[@SummiIce]

It’s definitely NOT sexual harassment But it is annoying to keep repeating ‘no’ over again. She was being pestered but nothing to frame ol dude as a weirdo tho.

[@SeekingFreedom369]

Save yourself the trouble Just Don’t do.

[@Shortie9096]

He’s asking for nudes tho and he won’t drop it. I agree the degree to which he did it wasn’t that bad but he is dragging it.

[@jaccl4539]

@@MaejorArray but its not - Asking for clarity is not harassment regardless of what you or I feel and thats the issue. This new group somehow wants every awkward , uncomfortable or situation they don't like to magically be some type of harassment or trauma and its simply not the case. Every conversation , gesture , mannerism has a level of pressure. I can wave to you from across the street and you can feel obligated to respond. But this group would call that coercion because how in there head they feel. None of that is on the other person to make you feel comfortable just like asking why is not an attack on your person to begin with. Its just so odd everyone wants to talk about there agency but magically everything from the dog walking down the street , to the man jogging by you , to the old lady sitting on her porch watching everything somehow cripples and hinders you. It seems like this education or enlightenment of this group got people growing backwards to being children in adult bodies upset at everyone not being better adults then they are.

[@zero1188]

Why carramello is the thumbnail?

[@jitterycursor8823]

my exact question🤔

[@nastusalmander]

Bro exposing his search history

[@NANINani-wg6df]

cause they talk about her? lol what you even mean?

[@theinvinciblemikey7485]

That’s crazy how you know her but don’t know what’s happened to her this week lmaoo

[@zero1188]

@@theinvinciblemikey7485 what happened to her this week?

[@TommyCombs-gm9cm]

The Crocodile Cam dude was lame as heck anyways for thinking a adult actress was going to take him seriously 😂😂😂. Who has text convos for 2 MONTHS and doesn't see the person they texting in person not one time🤣🤣. Dawg she wasn't feeling you because if she was she would have hung out with you week one of texting. Then he tried to argue with her about not sending pics or just talking about her day with him, he should have just blocked her and moved on but it's because he don't know how to pull a girl for real,that's why he kept pressing her. Shouldn't be tryna talk to Adult Stars anyway you lame-o

[@lilidonna]

Ugh that text conversation was so yuck. It felt so familiar, in the worst way. Triggering would be too strong a word but, ugh, the distaste left in my mouth... I don't like it.

[@Takashii85]

But why? 😈

[@lilidonna]

@@Takashii85 lack of imagination as to why it would be a no suggests that to him the default would be yes suggesting that entitlement to nudes or whatever when dating is a given. Odd behaviour.

[@Prince36300]

⁠@@lilidonnadisagree strongly. The man was trying to understand her thought process and connect with her in a more meaningful way. Had he pressed beyond no after asking for a reason why, I would agree with you. No has many meanings and most people have no issue with people following up after a no. All that was needed was a simple “I’m not comfortable sharing the reason”. Her belief that everyone should know that is both juvenile and entitled. Healthy Relationships are built on trust, healthy and open communication. Conversations that involve establishing your boundaries are a big part of that. This is huge red flag and similarly, her behavior gives me the ick.

[@lilidonna]

@@Prince36300 Asking why why why why WHY when you’ve been told no about something sexual is never ok

[@butterflymage5623]

@@lilidonnahe asked why once though. And when she questioned his why he explained. He then tried to move on to another subject accepting the no as a no with no further explanation and she brought the conversation back to it where he continued to reword his prior explanation. What you’re interpreting and what was said are two different things. Also it’s ok for people to ask why for clarification purposes, I don’t get upset when people ask why to understand more. We all don’t think the same so expecting people to think like you do and just understand off top isn’t a thing.

[@huey_kind611]

people act like the Socratic methods not a thing it’s not like he was pushing her and getting defensive when she said no he simply wanted to know what was going on and what her thought process was. I feel like wanting to know someones thought process when they say no makes sense. Talking to someone for three months with sexual tension between the two parties gives leeway to a mother fucka wanting to ask a question and then wanting to have clarification about the same question once the answers given especially since she said “i’ll probably never do that” i donno about you but that’d peak anybody’s interest on how shawty was thinking. especially with the type of relationship they were building. regardless of if it’s talking about a little sexy nude or whatever Don’t get me wrong it’s about how it’s done and the intentions behind it, but we also saw the text. There was no ill intent. Plus, the only fans shawty got needlessly defensive damn near immediately. She just seem like someone who would be hard to talk to in general, regardless of the fact that he was asking about receiving a scantily clad video or whatever.

[@CC111191]

As a man, when a woman tells me no they do not owe me any explanation whatsoever. Can crossed boundary and men are taking his side because they are equally as weird as he is.

[@butterflymage5623]

Weird statement because I don’t think he was acting like he was owed an explanation. Not unless you focus on him asking the first time and ignoring everything else that was said in the convo. 💁🏽‍♂️

[@jaccl4539]

ok nothing to do with the conversation at hand - he was asking for understanding and explaining his understanding. You or I being awkward or uncomfortable in that clarity doesn't break a boundary. Nothing weird happened.

[@CC111191]

@@butterflymage5623you weird

[@CC111191]

@@jaccl4539you weird

[@jaccl4539]

@@CC111191 thanks for proving my point

[@nol6409]

The content that your significant other creates being behind a paywall for you is interesting.

[@angelolagussa1312]

They weren't dating, and yeah what do you expect when sex is such a commodity these days. You literally cant date a sex worker expecting it be like dating any other person. It's like chasing girls who dont do sex work but treat having sex with em like they are. Sometimes you just aren't compatible

[@felixilic1117]

I would do anything for Alvin to leave this podcast, ANYTHING!

[@Darkchild393]

Ayo?? 😂

[@jjjiiddppeew1810]

Alvin Is the best part of this podcast absolutely

[@madmann1000]

Disagree. Alvin is definitely missed when he’s not present.

[@b.c.9619]

Maybe you should leave. I'm sure we'd all give anything for you to go.

[@Spades20XX]

Crazy because he’s lowkey the goat. I also dislike it if any of the three aren’t around because I think they all offer something in the discussion