Bourne & Kraatz (CAN) - 1998 Nagano, Ice Dancing, Free Dance

Nagano, JAPAN - 1998 Winter Games, Ice Dancing, Free Dance - Shae Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz of Canada placed 3rd in the Free Dance over France's Anissina & Peizerat as Yuri Balkov, the judge from Ukraine, broke ranks with those involved in the block judging (judges from Russia, Italy, Czech Republic and France). Balkov knew that it didn't matter if Bourne & Kraatz placed 3rd or 4th in the Free Dance, as the final results would not have been altered, and those results being Bourne & Kraatz finishing in 4th Place overall.

[@el7jake]

There was an ice dancing routine done to River Dance at the recent U.S. Figure Skating Championships. It couldn't even come close to the energy, the speed, the footwork, the WHATEVER of this routine. And the music really does make a difference. Whoever chose and edited this piece did it so much better than the routine I mentioned previously. This is, and I suspect always be, one of my faovrite skating performances. They did themselves pround, medal or no medal.

[@sallydaniel1023]

I absolutely love this program. Regardless of the outcome, they're #1 in my book

[@icestan_dancefan7024]

This getting 3rd was a joke. A&P had so much more content than B/K and K/O. Judging here was such a joke.

[@MiddleEarthGirl75]

Everytime I watched this performance I'd get goosebumps. Still do! They deserved gold. This was real ice dance.

[@juliettacloth6163]

6.th place

[@gk891]

Maybe even lower than 6th considering the multiple errors they made in the compulsories and they also had the easiest OD out of all the couples in the top 10.

[@o.k.9862]

real ice dance is dancing within closed handholds facing each other + good use of edges. As judges by this merit this program wan't ice dancing at all.

[@pascale_eagles]

LOL

[@klynnmartin1544]

They were the best and that will never change. This was one of their best performances. They had to deal with corrupt judging. Does not take away from their brilliance.

[@gk891]

They were never the best. They made multiple errors at the Olympics in both compulsory dances and both their OD and FD were skated entirely hand to hand or side by side. Fourth place was generous.

[@travisstrong5389]

@@gk891 You are wasting your breath. You will never convince the B&K ubers and/or those who bought the kool aid pushed so hard by CBC, CTV, and CBS for several years.

[@jfluter]

So.much.fun! I absolutely love watching this! Thanks for posting!

[@gdouglas999]

I'm not Canadian but for my money this was the best ice dance team of their day. Such a tragedy that the corruption among judges kept them from winning when so often they deserved to.

[@gk891]

I am Canadian and I thought they were extremely overhyped and overrated. I thought 4th was generous for what they put out on the ice here.

[@gdouglas999]

To each his own. I suspect each person who watches these routines is looking for something different than what the next person wants to see. Maybe it was their music choices that did it for me as much as anything else.

[@gk891]

You're perfectly allowed to like this program if you want. But technically they skated poorly at this competition and part of their problem was their material although in other parts it was just their skating. In the Golden Waltz CD, they made 3 errors, something that ISU Vice President Lawrence Demmy made very clear in a public statement although the North American media strangely ignored that. In the Argentine Tango CD, they made multiple errors. Both times, he keeps his free foot on the ice for way too long before his counter. And her twizzle wasn't actually a twizzle since she skates it on two feet rather than the required one foot. And her faux twizzle came off of a left forward outside edge that went very flat. Their Jive OD had almost non-existent content, something that even Tracy Wilson admitted to in Nagano and American commentator Judy Blumberg tore them apart for at Worlds later that season. And this free dance was skated almost entirely side by side. Ice dancers are supposed to skate closely together within close dance holds. They did almost none of that either in their Jive OD or their Riverdance FD. I can't see how the judges could've given them good marks at this competition.

[@dimapoc5853]

Grishuk and Platov so much better

[@gk891]

@lawomann Even for the standards of that time period, the content of this free dance was pretty woeful. You can do all the steps you want but if they're not done within interesting handholds, they do not count as difficult.

[@LNelson882]

20 years ago this was where ice dance was at for requirements and they were one of the best teams out there. Now see since Tessa and scott/Meryl and Charlie seemed to arrive on the scene you can see a huge growth in the sports re the lifts today, twizzles etc....

[@MsRumex]

no, even 20 years ago they were supposed to skate in dance holds, close together, change holds, and not have both feet on the ice all the time, use edges, do some interesting lifts etc.

[@lesliebarry-dawson4123]

So amazingly wonderful. It will forever be a favorite. Thank you Shae Lynn & Victor for your awesome performance! Never saw this in 1998.

[@michellegruber4187]

Magnifique, absolutely perfect. Bravo !!! I simply adore this river dance on the ice. Very good program.

[@chocolatesupport]

It's known that they were the best in the world at some points during the late 90s and early 2000s. The judges and their corruptions were a real barrier to the truly best skaters, and such a barrier to figure skating. They're also a big reason why we have the current judging points system.

[@gk891]

They were never the best in the world. They made multiple errors in both compulsory dances and both their OD and FD were skated entirely hand to hand or side by side. I think they should've placed outside of the top 5 at this competition.

[@travisstrong5389]

@@gk891 Well they did win the world title in 2003 so they arguably were best that year? Even that was very close with Lobacheva & Averubhk, and you could argue Denkova & Stahviski were better than both that year, even if realistically by protocal they were never going to be scored above eitehr.

[@victorkraatz916]

@@gk891 Bourne & Kraatz are widely considered the best dance team of all time, or atleast 2nd to Virtue & Moir. Any event they lost was due to corrupt judging. They deserved every major title from 1997 to 2003 atleast, probably even before 1997. It isn't even a debate, be mature and accept it.

[@Oreadno1]

I will never tire of this program. But, oh, how I screamed and swore at my TV knowing they had no chance of a medal, even though they so clearly deserved one.

[@MsRumex]

how could a medal be deserved if they made a mistakes in CD and had very-very easy OD in that competition?

[@LadyLakeMusic]

One of my favorite skating programs ever

[@donnanancekivell9430]

They were so ahead of their time and they never got the credit they deserved

[@gk891]

They got more than what they deserved.

[@MsRumex]

if they truly were ahead of time, they would have been rewarded

[@Shan_Dalamani]

@@MsRumex You do know that this was when the judging scandals were going on, right? Couples who made blatant errors were awarded gold while couples who were error-free were shut out of the medals due to collusion between the judges.

[@gk891]

@@Shan_Dalamani Bourne & Kraatz made 3 errors in the golden waltz CD (something ISU Vice President Lawrence Demmy made very clear to the media), I counted 6 errors in the Argentine Tango, their OD was the easiest out of all of the teams in the top 10 (plus she fell over at the very end), and their entire free dance was skated hand to hand or side by side. I had them no higher than sixth place.

[@Shan_Dalamani]

@@gk891 Spamming this opinion multiple times will not make you any more correct. Give it a rest.

[@luv3daysgrace1]

I always loved watching these two! They are so talented. Just magnificent!🏆

[@danceskatecheer5219]

That was a great program. I love Riverdance......I never liked Grishuk and Platov. I liked many Russian skaters, but not them.

[@danceskatecheer5219]

J Feng That's what I said "Genius".. For the record, no one cares what you like either.

[@juliettacloth6163]

do you know Grishuk and Platov personaly or you don't like figure skating?

[@gk891]

LIke it all you want. It was still a poorly choreographed program with everything skated either hand to hand or side by side. I don't see how the judges could've given them good marks for this dance.

[@sorayabranco]

Amen to that. Oksana gritshuk is the most overated female dancer ever. Ando she is not polished. Harsh lines, gestures. Many positions, few fluid transitions

[@floben2039]

You should prefer a Macdonald meal than a good restaurant... Your choice

[@MeganWoodard1984]

I kissed the ground this team skated on when I was younger and still would!!! LOVE this team and this dance is PERFECTION!!!

[@snipperwhapper]

They were never truly appreciated as ice dancers. How could they have had no chance for a medal? Unbelievable!

[@gk891]

They didn't have a chance at a medal because they made 3 errors in the Golden Waltz compulsory dance (something that the ISU Vice President Lawrence Demmy made clear in a press conference even if the North American media decided to ignore it), they made multiple errors in the Argentine Tango compulsory dance (both times, he keeps his free foot on the ice just before his counter and she does her twizzle both times on 2 feet rather than 1 foot), and both their OD and FD were skated entirely hand to hand or side by side. And as Tracy Wilson would often say (except for teams that she personally liked it seems), it's a lot easier to skate hand to hand or side by side as opposed to within complex handholds.

[@rythymb1]

They were number #1 in everything. Still can't beat them. World's Best God Bless them for all they gave us. Pure skating and hard work.

[@sheriffburfordt.justice4488]

I love everything about this program. I have never seen anyone before or after them take the deep edges they took. Her dress for this program is probably one of the most beautiful I've ever seen.

[@intldawn]

A not-so-subtle dig at the end of the program there, turning their backs on the judges to salute the crowd first. Terrific program. Just fabulous. 5.5 and 5.6 for technical completely out of line.

[@gk891]

Considering that almost the entire program is skated hand to hand and side by side (which in turn highlighted their less than great unison), 5.5 wasn't out of line to my eyes. In fact, it might've been generous.

[@intldawn]

Interesting. I was paying more attention to their footwork, which I thought merited better technical marks. But point taken.

[@gk891]

As Tracy Wilson would often say (except for teams that she personally liked it seems), skating farther apart makes any type of footwork much easier to perform. In ice dance, partners need to skate as closely together as possible and show the judges how well integrated they are with one another. Yes, it's a challenge to skate like that while maintaining good flow over the ice but the best teams will make it look easy. Teams like Torvill & Dean, Klimova & Ponomarenko, sometimes Grishuk & Platov (depending on who their coaches were), Virtue & Moir, etc. To my eyes, Bourne & Kraatz haven't demonstrated such skill. The few times they did have ambitious material (e.g. 1999 FD, 2001 OD) they could never skate up to it as the content and close handholds would make them slowdown significantly.

[@juliettacloth6163]

two legs don't give good points. skating on one leg is much more difficult.

[@gk891]

@@azbycx56 It's probably one of the reasons why I think this program would've worked much better as an exhibition number rather than a competitive one.

[@ChristineTheHippie]

Shae-Lynn and Victor were always an original team, and not always appreciated by the judges. The only thing they never had was an Olympic medal. 3Axel mentioned Yuri Balkov. He was suspended after Canadian judge Jean Senft recorded him during a phone conversation trying to make bargains for the Ice Dance results. However, he was judging again at Worlds in 2001.

[@gk891]

They were over-appreciated. A badly overrated team that received more than they deserved. They deserved lower than fourth at these Olympics.

[@lesiad985]

Sad that they skated during the time the judges were so corrupt that they never got the gold medals they deserved! But they paved the way for future skaters when the scandal broke ..... They were fantastic! The intricate footwork along with high speed , incredible!

[@Justforfun-ke7bg]

lol)) they always were judged more than generous. All footwork was done side by side and it wasn't considered difficult. And overall, taking in account very very simple and weak OD, mistakes in CD and this FD - they should be 6th if not lower

[@o.k.9862]

well, when I read all this overpriced comments about this team I also feel sad that they didn't skate with new scoring system. It would have been great seeing them on the deserved 5th or 6th place.....

[@rebeccahoffman2430]

Love them!!

[@KJC63]

I loved this team specially their move at 3:57 unbelievable that they were constantly screwed by paid off judges, and when those judges were caught they gave this couple a complimentary medal (this is after the medal winners - russian team fell during their performance and were given the first place anyways) Such a waste of all their hard work.

[@gk891]

I don't recall Grishuk & Platov falling during their 98 Olympic free dance.

[@ssmith6870]

I think you are confused with pairs skating.

[@juliettacloth6163]

Grishuk & Platov are 10 levels higher.

[@gibbygibbs8047]

I don't think they fell in this competition they had a stumble I believe though

[@advancedtaxonomy1132]

Andrea Newman literally no one except the north-american media and sale/pelletier themselves thought they deserved gold

[@ChristineTheHippie]

Because that's how the judging was. It wasn't just them either, also Punsalan and Swallow of USA were seventh, although their free dance was better than the Italians and Lobacheva/Averbukh, and the Lithuanians, another really good team, were down in eighth. Politics of judging. It was so frustrating.

[@MsRumex]

well, Punsalan and Swallow's FD WAS better than the Italians and Lobacheva/Averbukh, as was their golden waltz CD. However Bourne and Kraatz FD (as well as their OD and both CD's) weren't better and\or more difficult than those from the teams placed ahead of them.

[@sherrypratt8269]

Perfection

[@asa3409]

I always loved them and loved this program but there were just a lot of places where they were not in unison.

[@dramamamaof2]

Agreed. Way too much hand in hand movements vs couples that consistently skated closer together

[@OttawaPJFan]

Still can't believe they didn't get gold on that. It may not match what ice dancers do now, but at the time they were just another victim of Russian judges.

[@gk891]

They didn't get gold because this dance was skated almost entirely hand to hand or side by side. They also made some errors in the golden waltz CD (he didn't skate some of the required steps) and the argentine tango CD (he keeps his free foot in the ice just before the counter and her twizzle is done on 2 feet rather than 1 foot like it's supposed to be done). And their OD had almost novice-level content, something that even Tracy Wilson admitted to in the telecast and something that Judy Blumberg tore them apart for in U.S telecast later that year at Worlds.

[@juliettacloth6163]

6.th place for this show.

[@gk891]

Julietta Cloth. I think even 6th would've been slightly generous for this team. They made 3 errors in the Golden Waltz CD, they made multiple errors in the Argentine Tango CD (it seems like Kraatz was the only one who had to keep his free foot on the ice before his counter turn and it also seems like Bourne was the only one who couldn't perform her twizzle on one foot), and their OD was probably the easiest out of all the couples in the top 10. This free dance to Irish Riverdancing music was a good idea on paper but it needed to be reimagined somewhat so that there were more intricate handholds. You can't just take a dance verbatim (whether it be Irish Riverdance, a Tango, Polka, Waltz, etc) and transplant it onto the ice. But it seems like that was the path they took and then whined when it didn't work in their favour (although I'm not sure what they could've expected).

[@gibbygibbs8047]

I was always told they got screwed for Gold, and it had nothing to do with Riverdance, they got jipped points in an earlier program. Even if there was no scandal they were still fighting for the podium, they wouldn't have necessarily made it, they may have gotten a higher place, but they were never in it for Gold.

[@gk891]

If you're talking about their 5th place finish in the golden waltz compulsory dance, it was completely justified if not generous. B&K made three errors in that dance, something that was clearly pointed out by the ISU vice president Lawrence Demmy even though the North American media completely ignored that for whatever reason.

[@ebunlewis1]

One of the best scares to never win a gold medal....im still mad about it 18 years later!

[@MsCanadianblues]

You have to remember this will be 20 yrs in 2018 the rules for Ice Dancing have changed quite a bit in those years. When Bourne and Kraatz did this performance it was considered then to be one of the best and was actually controversial.

[@gk891]

It was considered to be the best by ignoramuses maybe.

[@kimciviero3400]

Does anyone know what pieces of music these are? I'd like to use them to choreograph a carnival number...

[@donnanancekivell9430]

RIVER DANCE

[@oliverclarke9891]

really beautiful, but at the start I was a little confused why they had swapped tap shoes for skates, the moves were almost exactly the same! It got better though :D

[@fauxgrace]

They did it the best...

[@LeslieToronto1971]

They were cheated. Their facial expressions, the way they had the Irish Highland Dancing down, etc. Made me want to go to Ireland. Did last year in May into June. We so wished River Dance was still playing.

[@sgtcrab2569]

Shae Lynn is one of the most beautiful women in the world in her day.

[@ebunlewis1]

I remember watching this performance...I was in gr4 at the time...and even then, I knew it was robbery! In 2017, still robbery!

[@icesk8mike]

They are the jean Butler and Michael flatley of ice dance

[@lamdao1242]

who choreographed this dance?

[@icesk8mike]

They are the Jean Butler and Michael flatley of the ice

[@valerianosilva3874]

Lindo

[@gk891]

I think part of the problem that many had with their skating that year was that they didn't do some of the steps properly in the golden waltz CD and both their OD and FD were skated almost entirely hand to hand or side by side. That's largely frowned upon in ice dance.

[@sk8rjer]

Wow Wow WOW!!!

[@Contessa27]

They deserved the gold!!

[@gk891]

You`re funny.

[@Ian.D.]

If you deserve the gold, worst-case scenario, you finish a close second (Nancy Kerrigan & Elvis Stojko in 1994, Salé&Pelletier in 2002, Kim Yuna in 2014). You don't end up 4th.

[@ChristineTheHippie]

Likewise, I'm so glad it's not that way anymore. Can you imagine Virtue/Moir down in fourth and Davis/White pushed down in seventh.

[@MsRumex]

if they (V/M or D/W) would have such a weak programs like this one or like B/K OD, yes, Virtue/Moir or Davis/White would be in 4th, 7th and lower. Why not? Just because music is great and audience likes it, it does not mean that the program is technically difficult.

[@Oreadno1]

Actually, they were told before the compulsory dances that no matter what they would finish no higher than 4th.

[@MsRumex]

so that is the reason for their mistakes? You can rewatch all the CD (B/K as well as their competitors), you can compare their OD and FD with the others ones - and everything that was written and said in the north-american media will look quite dubious

[@priscillamarques6233]

What song was at 3:30?

[@SupermarketSweep777]

If you are still looking for the answer it's from the Riverdance piece "Reel Around the Sun". The piece was also used at the start of the performance.

[@Orion227]

Any skating judge that does that should never be allowed to judge again, ever! The country of the judge should also be penalized. But then we all know that creative Olympic sports are wide open to abuse by judging, that is why penalties should be severe.

[@MsRumex]

what exactly did the judge, you are referring to, do?

[@gk891]

While I agree there is a lot of corrupt judging in figure skating, I didn't see any in regards to Bourne & Kraatz. I thought they were marked very very generously and fourth place was way too high considering they made multiple errors in both compulsory dances, they had the easiest OD out of all the couples in the top 10 and probably beyond that, and their free dance was skated entirely hand to hand or side by side. I thought they should have finished at around 6th.

[@karenhilker8074]

This pair got SCREWED because of bullshit blocked judging. THOSE 2 should have an Olympic medal!

[@Widdekuu91]

3:21 I couldn't help but notice that that arm-move was awfully close to a bad greeting....

[@gk891]

If that's true, that still doesn't change the problem with their errors in the golden waltz (apparently changes were made to the CD and for whatever reason, Bourne & Kraatz didn't get the memo) as well as all the hand to hand and side by side skating in their OD and FD. I think their chances for a medal would've been better if they had skated their 1999 FD here at the 1998 Olympics as it had much more ambitious content than Riverdance did.

[@travisstrong5389]

They rarely skated the 99 program cleanly too, maybe as it was too difficult for them. In fairness she had a serious knee injury by worlds and that definitely would have affected their ability to do that difficult program cleanly. For Skate Canada, as a debut it looked promising, but her injury got worse later in the season. Yes that was a much better program in terms of difficult content by a long ways.

[@3Axel1996]

@@travisstrong5389 I recall they had a clean FD at the 99 Worlds. I did think the choreography was too difficult for them. Dean has had a reputation of coming up with dances that challenged the skaters, like the Duchesnays.

[@gk891]

@@3Axel1996 They had a near fall at the end of their FD at the 1999 Worlds. They were lucky to have hung onto a medal at those worlds.

[@kirkenes]

I am sorry but "best in the world" is some sort of an urban legend. They were not "best" by a long mile. Unfortunately, many people who wouldn't tell a choctaw from a chasse still think they were the Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ. I really don't know what Dubova was thinking, but this dance showcases all their weaknesses. They had one delightful FD though. The first version of "Meet Her at the Love Parade" choreographed by Dean.

[@gk891]

Meet Her at the Love Parade was a fantastic free dance! It was very ambitious. It's too bad that B&K could never skate up to it.

[@cazia9]

This routine is so technically challenging for one very specific reason - Irish step dance (aka Riverdancing) is principally intricate footwork in a single place while ice dance is about flow and movement across the ice...to blend the two is a marvel and this team was so cutting edge in their choreography that most ice dancers today probably don't realize how much of an influence Shae and Vik truly had on the current style

[@mysticgirl916]

When they were developing this program, they actually worked with former Riverdance lead dancer Colin Dunne on the footwork

[@MsRumex]

that's was a problem - that they did not blend it well with skating on deep running edges and within tight handholds.

[@lesliedye1345]

too many sour grapes in comments below.

[@margotfanny3281]

Just a big note........no corruption there...LOL

[@sm5288]

Wow 3:25 great move. Shame about the corrupt judges and how corrupt sport is in general including the olympics.

[@gk891]

What corrupt judging? This entire dance was skated entirely hand to hand or side by side. So was their OD. Not to mention they made errors across the board during both of their compulsories.

[@michr.6284]

I am not saying the Canadians should have beat the French, but this is a prime example of Block judging. As soon as the 6.0 system was done, there is a reason why you haven't seen any Block countries win an ice dance gold until this year. The rampant cheating preventing ANY movement of teams until after 2004, looking back, was so obvious. Russia has no where to be found (the odd silver or bronze) in ice dance, and it is for good reason. And their entire athletic system is why they are the nameless team at this year's Olympics, again. In the sports where the Russian athletes were clean, it was the judges that were dirty.

[@Justforfun-ke7bg]

this particular team would not have benefit from a new scoring system (imho).

[@fairlyvague82]

They didn’t win???

[@gk891]

Nope. They made multiple errors in both compulsory dances, their OD was probably the easiest out of all the couples in the top 10, and this FD was skated almost entirely side by side. If anything they were marked very very generously.

[@mollymollie6048]

I was a competitive singles skater as a kid/teen (nothing to write home about,) and those Irish dance steps on ice are so incredibly difficult...I just see how many face plants and tailbone bruises must have taken in practice watching it!!! They were amazing...and robbed over and over again by a corrupt system. Their speaking out, I think, led to helping Sale and Pelletier get their golds in 2002. Absolutely stunning program, the difficulty, the synchrony, stunning...deserved the gold, no doubt.

[@MsRumex]

difficulties in side by side steps and skating?

[@gk891]

As Tracy Wilson would say herself, it's much easier to skate hand to hand or side by side. This program was skated entirely side by side. Therefore it was not difficult.

[@Justforfun-ke7bg]

Oksana Grishuk once said that Bourne/Kraatz's Riverdance was so easy she could learn it in a day)

[@gk891]

@@Justforfun-ke7bg And I believe her too

[@MsRumex]

there was russian tv show Skating with the Stars and one of the teams performed irish dance (you can see it on youtube (Чулпан Хаматова и Роман Костомаров - Ирландский танец) . This Chulpan Khamatova is an actress, yet she (even though she can barely skate) does this "very difficult" steps almost as good as her partner Kostomarov. I guess it answers the question how difficult those steps are......

[@Sillybazzle]

figure skating would probably be really fun

[@shamrock4500]

they were robbed

[@gk891]

Hardly. They made multiple errors in both of the compulsory dances, their OD was the simplest out of all the top 10 couples, and this free dance was skated entirely side by side or hand to hand. They shouldn't have even placed in the top 5.

[@janetmcleod6103]

They were robbed articles.latimes.com/1998/feb/14/sports/sp-19129

[@gk891]

@@janetmcleod6103 I love how that article completely disregards the fact that Bourne & Kraatz made 3 errors in the Golden Waltz CD (something that ISU Vice President Lawrence Demmy made very clear to the media), 6 errors in the Argentine Tango CD (it seems like they were the only team in the entire competition who could not skate their counters or twizzles properly), they had one of the easiest ODs that should've placed maybe 8th or 9th, and this entire free dance was skated completely side by side or hand to hand. And as Tracy Wilson would often say (except for Canadian or American teams that she personally likes) it's much easier to skate that way.

[@gk891]

@Yvan Svajlen Oh what's wrong? Did me pointing out how B&K skated poorly hit some sort of sore spot?

[@TheSienna29]

Have never understood the fuss over this team.

[@MsRumex]

me either, until I watched some canadian orth-american broadcasts from that time . Also B\K a fun to watch + most people do not really understand what is important\difficult in ice dancing.

[@gk891]

@@MsRumex What's frustrating about Riverdance was that it was a fantastic idea on paper. It's fun, exciting, and fits the theme of ballroom dance well. It also fits B&K's perky style very nicely. But the good idea didn't get off the ground very well. I still think if they had been coached by someone other than Dubova at that time in their careers that B&K could've legitimately contended for medal at these Olympics.

[@icesk8mike]

Ukrainian judge and German judge was totally outta line in this event now the Ukrainian back judging for Israel

[@Justforfun-ke7bg]

ukr and ger judges did put them ahead of A/P ......so, what is wrong?

[@icesk8mike]

@@Justforfun-ke7bgthe 5.5 for technical Merritt from the German and the 5.7 from the Ukrainian judge was totally outta line they were underscored

[@Justforfun-ke7bg]

@@icesk8mike placement is much more important than the actual marks anyway. Some judges may just be stricter than the others, but as long as they apply it to everyone there is no problem (imho)

[@icesk8mike]

@@Justforfun-ke7bg understandable bc I've been in this sport of figure skating for years since I was 4 and 1/2

[@Justforfun-ke7bg]

@@icesk8mike than you should know that side by side skating wasn't really considered technically difficult.

[@thomasvu4449]

Their 4th place was generous. This program was filled with progressives, contained almost no steps, and was absent of any transitions. It would be considered easy for an exhibition.

[@HowDareThey1970]

Thomas Vu what are "progressives?" I followed skating for a long time, esp closely back in those days, and I'm not familiar with that term... but I agree esp compared with what ice dancers do now, many stretches of the program look simple.

[@tuxtommy69]

HowDareThey1970 A progressive is a series of steps, usually 3, of plain flowing edges without chasses, crosses, turns or any other elements. For example, LFO-RFI-LFO all skated as one (musical) beat edges would be a progressive.

[@gk891]

+Thomas Vu Not only that but it was skated almost entirely hand to hand or side by side. You could've driven a moped between them!

[@rowbom]

+Thomas Vu You said that this program "contained almost no steps". Then what do you call all that footwork at the beginning. I think that you are exaggerating. This would be "easy for an exhibition" ? I have never seen any exhibition program that contains that amount of footwork.

[@gk891]

+rowbom Their footwork was done predominantly hand to hand or side by side though. And as Tracy Wilson would often say (except for teams that she personally liked), it's a lot easier that way than doing footwork within more complex handholds.

[@Yuhon100]

I felt that they deserve the bronze medal, entering the Nagano Olympics as the two time and reigning world bronze medalist. They were robbed of a medal, because of bloc judging from judges from Eastern Europe.

[@gk891]

They made 3 errors in the Golden Waltz CD, 6 errros in the Argentine Tango CD (it seems like they were the only team who could not skate their counters or twizzles properly), their OD had novice level content, and this entire free dance was skated completely side by side. Not even top 5 for me.

[@MsRumex]

you are funny. You are complaining about judging and in the same sentence, you say that B/K deserves a medal just because they had one the year before? Is it fair judging? What if the other teams work harder than they and prepare better and stronger programs? (which was the case in this Olympic btw)

[@Justforfun-ke7bg]

"they deserve the bronze medal, entering the Nagano Olympics as the two time and reigning world bronze medalist". Very 'FAIR" way of judging the competition((((

[@ssmith6870]

Disgusting Russian and French judges! This should have won not the bronze but the gold! In my mind, this couple are second only to Torvill and Dean. Hate the overwrought Russian choreography of this era.

[@MsRumex]

hate all you want, but this was not difficult enough to win the gold. And to compare them to T\D - O_O

[@gk891]

@@MsRumex Bourne & Kraatz fans are super-rabid and often quite blind

[@TinaR39]

I loved watching this team and did not care for Grishuk & Platov at all. However, after all of these years, it's annoying that when a top Canadian skater doesn't win the Gold medal, it's because they were "robbed" or there was a "conspiracy". They really are poor losers.

[@ssmith6870]

I'm a Brit and I think they were robbed. The French and Russians worked together for years. We have proof of that.

[@o.k.9862]

@@ssmith6870 what proof?

[@gk891]

@@o.k.9862 There is none. I think k hughes was making it all up.

[@janetmcleod6103]

This was the last time I watched the Olympics and figure skating. Olympic corruption had been obvious for some time and this was the last time i put myself through watching it or sponsoring it in any way. That the figure skating community did not come together and fight or boycott the games before (it should have happened long before 1998) or after, ended my love affair with skating. Those who don't stand together ....

[@MsRumex]

well if you did really love the sport, you probably should've bothered to understand what exactly makes it difficult and afterward results would not have surprised you.

[@jimmyseraphin7314]

5.5 and 5.7 for me

[@gk891]

Even lower for me! :)

[@freddyc8098]

Didn’t care much for this. Steps were short and small especially at the beginning Speed was visibly less than the French pair. Everything about this was cliche

[@arahana02]

Bourne & Kraatz were robbed.

[@janicekidd2115]

Sorry didn’t do it for me

[@sqlcomp]

They were so robbed of gold medals throughout their career!