Breaking the Cycle: Overcoming Anxiety and Bad Habits | Judson Brewer| The Proof Podcast EP

When we discuss health, we typically hone in on the tangible: diet, exercise, sleep. Yet, in doing so, we often overlook a pivotal aspect: mental wellbeing. In Episode #285, I sit down with psychiatrist and neuroscientist Dr. Judson Brewer to look inward at anxiety, destructive habits, and how to build new habits.
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Judson Brewer, MD, PhD, is a renowned neuroscientist and psychiatrist, specialising in habit change and self-mastery. With over 25 years of blending mindfulness training with scientific research, he stands as an authority in the field, holding esteemed positions at Brown University in both Behavioural and Social Sciences and Psychiatry. With his talks, notably the fourth most-viewed TED talk in 2016, and acclaimed books such as "The Craving Mind" and "Unwinding Anxiety", Dr Jud's insights into the mind and habits have garnered global attention. Alongside many other notable achievements, Dr Jud is exceptionally well-positioned to speak on today’s topic.
We cover:
00:00 - Intro
02:02 - Judson Brewer's Personal Journey: From Novice to Mindfulness Expert
09:26 - Defining Mindfulness: How It Relates to and Enhances Meditation Practices
14:01 - The Impact of Mindfulness on Brain Function and Habit Transformation
20:03 - The Challenge of Awareness in Today's Distracted World
23:02 - Unravelling Anxiety: Insights into Reward-Based Learning
33:31 - Distinguishing Anxiety from Depression: A Mindful Approach
41:40 - Exploring the Human Brain: The Old Versus the New
45:59 - How Can We Change Habits?
57:20 - How Can You Cultivate Awareness?
1:05:46 - Judson Brewer's Strategy for Managing Anxiety
1:06:54 - Effective Techniques for Breaking Unhealthy Habits
1:11:33 - Willpower's Role in Overcoming Negative Behaviours
1:16:50 - Replacing Bad Habits with Good
1:18:26 - Addressing Anxiety's Root Causes Through Habit Change
1:22:58 - Outro
Connect with Dr Jud:
- Website: drjud.com/
- Instagram: / dr.jud
- KZbin: / drjud
- Threads: www.threads.net/@dr.jud
- Twitter: X: / judbrewer
If you have any additional questions you would like answered in the future, let me know in the comments.
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Enjoy, friends.
Simon
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[@oolala53]

I’m getting more and more discouraged listening to these things because I went to a Zen center meditated on and off I admit but I also attended 18 retreats. I’ve been to another probably eight of other kinds of things since then. The longest stretch I had was an hour a day of meditation for five months And I never felt any better. When I quit after five months, it made no difference. I was able to change my eating habits by using a combination of CBT and riding the binge urge wave. But the biggest issue is a feeling of disconnect from other people and that one I’ve been working on for years, but it doesn’t really budge. Oh well, I’m not really looking for remedies because I know a ton of things that I could do. I know I’ll feel better tomorrow morning. Thanks for listening.

[@FrancineYeshua]

Search for Jesus! Sounds crazy I know but He can help you!!☺️👏

[@user-fr6fy6lg6e]

Hey Simon - this interview was gold! As a nutrition and health coach, so much was aligned to coaching practice - leading with curiosity, bringing awareness to habits, approach goals vs avoidance goals - and so much more. Just amazing and one I think I’ll come back to again and again. 🙏

[@trishstauble3461]

Thank you, Simon, for having Judson Brewer on your podcast....I will share it widely !! What a wonderful podcast for this very anxious worrier !! Thank you !

[@selbyalfret2176]

Q

[@mime5936]

Well done, again, Simon! The conversation and information in this episode are invaluable to those seeking a sensible and practical plan/ path to lasting behavior change. Even though the topic of “mental health” is ubiquitous these days, rarely does anyone break down the process in a way that addresses the positive/ negative reinforcement feedback loop, which is crucial to understand for conscious awareness of behavioral patterns. And KUDOS to Dr. Brewer for correctly explaining negative reinforcement!! As a Board Certified Behavior Analyst, it was wonderful to hear so many of the foundational principles of behavior described and utilized in his program.

[@smilebot484]

Simon I have heard numerous interviews with Judson and I wanted to say that your interview style is so helpful for summarizing and staying on track. I would love to see more mind health content.

[@davacastillo8991]

One of the most helpful to me from your podcasts. I applied for his free guide. Truly dealing with current feelings of anxiety, rather than trying to figure out why is a break through for me personally. Thank you so much. Becoming disenchanted with the behavior is a new concept together with its destructive results, i.e. pain and disappointment at my inability to be strong.

[@jimpatek6244]

I was surprised by the value I derived from this discussion. Thank you for doing this Simon. My trivial but important to me anxiety is finding the middle ground in the diet wars. So trivial!

[@SapientEudaimonia]

Anxiety, panic attacks and the strong desire to avoid have taken a decades-lasting toll on my studies in medical school, relationships and life in general. Even though I wouldn't necessarily call myself a failure or unhappy, I truly believe it is my biggest threat to action, contentment and flourishing.

[@SapientEudaimonia]

It's one of my most pressing and important struggles in life, but I'm still looking for the most effective ways to deal with it.

[@estherrichardson9750]

Really appreciated the practical tips in this interview and the easy to follow practices, thank you! Great conversation =)

[@amanr6346]

Absolutely loved this Simon! I work in public health especially smoking cessation, and am training as a Psychotherapist. This episode was absolutely brilliant!❤

[@bethraflowers5799]

❤❤❤ This is awesome stuff! I'm listening to this again and putting it into practice. Thank you!

[@richardmiddleton7770]

I have to work so hard to battle anxiety! Then having to do all that work makes me anxious!!

[@Kalki70581]

​@@MB10097What do you mean by action? Physical exercise?

[@hamakua484]

Great theoretical/practical interview. This presentation will help me jump forward in mindfulness. IMO Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics is the best theoretical/practical approach to developing the best habits using the rational thought. How to encourage a person to be a good citizen/person - golden mean: courage, prudence, temperance, and justice. This is a frontal cortex approach on developing the right habits to do the right thing, at the right time, etc. For example, courage is the golden mean between recklessness and cowardice. Why not use all the brain?

[@wallyrbc]

I suffer from debilitating health anxiety sometimes and it’s tortuous. Perhaps why I’m so into nutrition and follow people like Simon, to make me feel as though I’m doing something about it?

[@joe1071]

Same. I’ve been on a quest for most of my life figure out my anxiety through exercise, nutrition, therapy, meditation etc. It’s ongoing

[@wallyrbc]

@@panes840Good to know! Thank you.

[@janeschade7875]

I’m in the same boat as you

[@janeschade7875]

Enjoy this podcast Simon I suffer from general anxiety disorder and hate it! I’m gonna try some of the things suggested!

[@oolala53]

Yes, but if you hear Brewer’s other stuff, you can learn that the excess of fear is probably unnecessary. When you get clear that you are taking the steps you need to according to your best information and see that this year is your attempt to control but that’s your doesn’t do any good. Only taking action does the good. Did you really see that, you’ll be able to take this step you need, but Let the fear go when the rises because you’ll recognize that it’s not necessary. And that will break the habit. But if you find that you slack off on your good health habits without this year, maybe it will be doing good. However, I went to a big health scares in the last few years and I found out that many of the restrictive attitudes that was taken. We’re not actually making a difference in my blood chemicals, so I relaxed on some of them. Honestly, after not smoking, consistent movement is way more associated with longevity than what you eat as long as you don’t gain in adulthood. No matter what Simon says. if your food habits end up, decreasing your ability to socialize effectively, that’s a problem because social networks are more associated with longevity. Often over the uncertainty of the future and a lot of the impetus meditation is also about being willing to live with uncertainty because we cannot predict the future.

[@nutritionwithtijana]

Loved this episode so much! 😍

[@tashsinclair8007]

Great episode!

[@wavesnowaves]

What happened during the pandemic ? People stopped being physically social, and social media use skyrocketed for almost an entire population (that has access to social media at least). Social media has some practical benefits, but the negatives far outweigh those. It's like smoking, it may relax someone in the short term - but it's really just only negatives.

[@user-cf5cy8rb5y]

WHEN IS PART 2 homie

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Hi Friends, Curious to know - which part of our recent conversation did you find the most engaging? Also, if there are any other questions you have in mind about this topic, just leave them below. I'll ensure they're included in our next chat.

[@rosenajia2384]

I'm having trouble with the negative reward value awareness step. I'm addicted to internet scrolling, which I actually hate and which never makes me feel good. I know that. And I still keep doing it which seems to go against Dr. Jud's model. Any thoughts about how to address that?

[@newsdropz5361]

It's in most instances INFLAMMATION in the brain, due to chronic high blood sugar, due to daily excessive sugar/carbohydrate intake.

[@emh8861]

I’m just here for the eye candy.

[@suec3854]

Got that right

[@jimjim-hx6fd]

To each their own. I've never gotten much out of meditation, and "mindfulness" is such a bastardized buzzword. The mental wellness space is so rife with bullshit; and I feel for people who are suffering and want to cling to something which seems hopeful, but the only headway I've ever personally made with anxiety is just surrendering to it and going about my day, even if I'm uncomfortable or afraid while doing it. Nothing against this dude, but this is self-help 101 dolled up with some scientific jargon. Something else that always bothers me when I hear people talk about strategies for anxiety and depression is that they assume the sufferer has some measure of logical control over what they're feeling, and that by, for example, rationally understanding the idea that "anxiety creates worry, which creates anxiety, etc" that person now has a logical key they can use to switch off their feelings. I'm not walking around with GAD because I lack an understanding of the rational mechanisms behind why I'm feeling this way. I'm glad for the guy in his anecdote who was able to flip a switch after realizing the loop he was stuck in, but that's never been my experience or that of others I've known. Anxious people -- at least those who are generally anxious, and have been for a long time -- in my experience, tend to be overly self-aware if anything.

[@joblogos2367]

The information about how the mechanism or anxiety works =/= steps to take to resolve it. They are giving you the mechanism. When it comes to depression and anxiety the stuff you have to do often happens when you are not in the midst of an episode. It is the daily habits that reduce your chance of getting there and makes you better able to process it when it does happen. There will be a huge correlation with people not practicing good habits then having an episode of severe anxiety and/or depression. Meditation and mindfulness reduce your chances of getting to that state and help you better manage them when they arise. It's not a pill you just take once and it resolves things. It's the continual habits and long term changes it can produce.

[@jimjim-hx6fd]

​@@joblogos2367 Sorry dude, I get angsty online sometimes because I'm fat and my dick is small. I also got a thing for bigger girls, so, taken altogether, it really does seem like a cruel joke sometimes. Can listening to dipshit self-help gurus with books and programs to sell help me with this somehow?

[@oolala53]

I’m sorry, I don’t like the dark room analogy because a lot of information and design went into making it easy for people to correct that problem. 1000 years ago, it would’ve entailed a lot more work, and possibly wealth and a bunch of other things. I’m writing this as I’m listening so I may end up getting rid of the comment if something else illuminates it differently. And yes, I could be asked to wait, but this is how I use the platform given the kind of attention span I have as of now.