Brexit voters fleeing Tories after mass migration failure | Matthew Goodwin interview

After winning a significant majority in 2019 the Conservatives look to be heading to a catastrophic defeat in the next election. To discuss the grand realignment in British politics and how the Tories squandered it, Steven Edginton is joined by the academic Matthew Goodwin. Watch the full interview above or listen on your podcast app by searching "Off Script". The two discuss Matthew Goodwin's new book, Values, Voice and Virtue.
Subscribe to The Telegraph with our special offer: just £1 for 3 months. Start your free trial now:
www.telegraph.co.uk/customer/...
Get the latest headlines: www.telegraph.co.uk/
Telegraph.co.uk and / telegraphtv are websites of The Telegraph, the UK's best-selling quality daily newspaper providing news and analysis on UK and world events, business, sport, lifestyle and culture.

[@kevincoshner310]

Both Tory and Labour are dancing to an entirely different tune to `majority thinking` in this country.

[@mnomadvfx]

Yes but the confidence in Lib Dem's evaporated when the last time they had any significant power they promptly handed it to the Tories back in 2010. Because of this there is effectively only a 2 party system in the UK for most people that are not living in Scotland.

[@salemalnuaimi602]

How do we measure this so called majority/solent majority????? Unless of course elections don't count 🙄

[@powerboon2k]

The tories have just destroyed everything through austerity and then caused brexit.

[@MrXaphus]

They may well be, but until the public is pissed off enough to take a gamble on fringe parties (e.g. the SDP, Reform, Greens etc) instead of the LibLabCon triumvirate absolutely nothing will change. People really do need to be a bit braver with their voting choices in this country and risk a term of "the other side" getting in to make some headway.

[@johnwade1095]

Yougov is manufactured consent

[@whitepanties2751]

Never underrate the ability of the British Conservative Party to throw away its opportunities and let down those who should be their natural supporters.

[@normanchristie4524]

And who may they be?

[@lookatmyroflcopter]

the only "natural supporters" are sociopaths and the super rich.

[@anonUK]

Same goes for the Labour Party, to be fair.

[@simonclare100]

I see no parties with any honesty or common sense, the incompetency is enormous, nobody to vote for

[@happinesstan]

@@simonclare100 Exactly. Starmer's recent attempts to avoid questions about Sue Gray, was Michael Gove level squirming

[@iggle6448]

IMHO, neither the Tories nor Labour reflect the views and values of a great many people now. Those parties reflect the narrow Westminster-north London politicos only

[@andreeas.2362]

Well, do another party

[@joycegibbs5267]

they represent left wing extremists. I'm really frightened of what's going on. Decent people are in peril.

[@richardbannister-jz8so]

What about South of the River

[@Alan31420]

Interesting point that Goodwin makes: that the EU was in one respect more democratic than the UK in that it’s proportional representation voting system gave Nigel Farage and others a voice denied to them at Westminster by the first pas the post system.

[@James_36]

Proportional representation will just mean a constant left wing coalition. It staggers and baffles me that people can’t see that

[@anydroid]

@@James_36 PR does a far better job of translating the preferences of voters into seats (hence “proportional”). By contrast, FPTP can grant a governing majority to the largest minority. The Tories presently govern with an 80 seat majority obtained from 44% of votes cast. Meaning… more people voted against them than for them. If your reason for opposing PR is that could lead to non Tory governments, that doesn’t sound awfully democratic.

[@thomasalexand]

We need proportional representation as never before. Too many voters feel disenfranchised.

[@somethingintheair5373]

@@James_36 How exactly does PR mean a constant left wing coalition? What’s your evidence? What it would mean is that people who voted for Brexit (a real Brexit), people who believe in controlled immigration, small state, low taxes and the conservation of our culture and heritage, would have a voice. They are in fact the majority, and I don’t think by any stretch of the imagination they could be called left wing!

[@James_36]

@@somethingintheair5373 They are not the majority, 60% of the voters voted for left wing parties, look at Canada for evidence etc... go look at any PR system currently in place. PR is not an answer it is a way to lock out Right Wing ideas for good

[@nickjung7394]

Certainly my own MP, Damian Green reflects what has been discussed here. In the way he dealt with my own issues with the County Court system and his performance nationally he has been a dismal failure. The last nail was his failure to be in attendance during Andrew Bridgen's presentation in the House the other day; I found it sinister at the way in which everyone left before he gave his highly important speech! Green will not be getting my vote!

[@mrsthatcher9815]

they are all on pharma payroll according to bridgen

[@stephenpotts832]

We have all seen this. Clearly the issue with attending Andrew Bridgen’s speech on Covid was the Vaccine issue. He spoke on economic issues on the 20th March with good attendance. We have never seen anything like this, MP’s from all parties walking out??? Clearly coordinated and agreed upfront. If they disagreed with Andrew Bridgen’s interpretation of the government data then they should have done that, that is what we pay them for. For me there is no clearer demonstration that our political system has failed, our democracy is an illusion, I can’t vote for any of them or even bother listening to any of them. We are living in strange times.

[@noeyes6151]

We live in a third world country now, get used to it

[@jacquelinekingdom2040]

They are lazy and disgraceful tbh

[@normanchristie4524]

Where, where(?) are my rubber gloves! The adoration by Theresa May was a bit sickening.....

[@isoljator]

Everyone should flee the Tories

[@ajs41]

Problem is Labour would be even worse on immigration than the Tories.

[@manuelromero8007]

​@@ajs41 UK out of Europe

[@malcolmcoram2857]

Actually no! The Labour party winning the next election would be an unmitigated disaster for the country: there are divisions enough already in the country without those which will be introduced and hugely intensified by the wholesale and unthinking adoption of identity politics as a route to progress.

[@joycegibbs5267]

because they ain't Tories !!

[@ozzie2612]

@@ajs41 well they never were

[@petercapon9878]

In recent years I've travelled up and down the country and have spoken to many working-class people and I believe this is a massive underestimation of public feeling.

[@normanchristie4524]

What is your classification of 'working class'?

[@manuelromero8007]

​@@normanchristie4524 UK out of Europe

[@robmc3338]

​@@manuelromero8007 Brexit caused this increase in migration from the rest of the world. The Tories knew this and lied to the voters. The unfortunate thing is wage rates in Poland have been increasing dramatically so the ultra rich wanted an even cheaper source of labour, Brexit has delivered that 🙁

[@aristocraticrebel]

@@robmc3338 Brexit didn't cause it? The UK government caused it.

[@manuelromero8007]

@@aristocraticrebel David Cameron

[@johnpaulnash8144]

It's sickening that £billions will be spent on foreign nationals living for free in hotels and having houses built for them, while many British people have crap jobs for low pay. It's infuriating!!!!!!!

[@chelloandra]

one is not the cause of the other …… it started with lack of housing since Thatcher oh and what - yup a TORY - England never learns !!!!!!!

[@papamurrth1]

It isn't Billions

[@secretarchitect288]

Pappamurrth - Migration Watch suggest a cost of £35k per illegal immigrant is the annual cost. What's your figure?

[@Dionysos640]

@@secretarchitect288 There are hardly any 'illegal' immigrants, there are many refugees who under international law cannot be described as illegal. Additionally if our governement processed them and either accepted or rejected them, as this country used to, the cost would be massively reduced. This is an entirtely manufactured, fake crisis designed to appeal to racists, biggots and anyone who is easily frightened by bullshit. It's all that this excuse for a governemnt have left, the only cards they can play. It's pathetic but more importantly it's tragic

[@MoniiChanTheUnicorn]

We 100% should help people in their home countries by providing education and family planning since their own corrupt governments are too useless to do so for their own populations but in UK the people of the UK should come first!

[@magisterdamask9015]

Respect to Mr Goodwin for distinguishing himself from his colleagues by actually showing interest in why things are happening, rather than obfuscating. The Tories will not reorient themselves towards the voters he details in his book though - they love nothing more than money & finance, even power itself.

[@jascu4251]

True, but do they need to? The UK isn't like the US where either the Republicans or Democrats can win, and its been roughly 50-50 over the last 80 years. In the UK the Conservatives win the vast majority of the time. We can all have different reasonings as to why that is but at the end of the day their strategists will turn around and say "the polls dont matter, when it comes to election day, there is one thing the public can be relied on to do, and that is to vote Conservative, why should we change anything?", and to some degree they would be correct

[@stevenhoward3358]

He's certainly an outlier amongst his peers, but that is not a good thing, he's obsessed with woke but fails to define it beyond some nebulous concept

[@jascu4251]

@@stevenhoward3358 I think thats mostly why this is staying in the cultural realm rather than manifesting too much into any kind of policy proposals. I think the other thing here is that woke has become shorthand for "people I don't like", which is also somewhat nebulous. Its difficult to see any of this going away any time soon, but its also difficult to see it go much beyond this impasse with pro and anti voices, but the arguments going over the heads of the majority of the public Its absolutely fantastic for column inches, KZbin clicks, and newspaper articles though, both pro and anti - because while people in both camps are somewhat niche and fewer in number than might appear, they have a voracious appetite for this type of content

[@CCDR07]

@@stevenhoward3358 And that's a key strategy for anyone deliberately trying to manipulate people, and obscure where and how wealth/power accumulates and is used to dominate modern "democracy" at the expense of the majority of people. The dysfunctions in society that actually affect people's lives (e.g., equitable access to healthcare, justice/the courts, education, healthy food and enviroments, etc) are largely class based and have nothing to do with the identity politic BS that this guy trades in.

[@adrianlang6550]

As a very regular conservative voter, i have had no faith in this or the last 4 conservative governments immigration policy. Basically, they have no policy. The fact they cannot just ship Albanian illegal immigrants back to Albania beggars belief. Albania is not at war, it is a poor country, but is neither Syria or Afghanistan. To be putting up young men in hotels is a total waste of money. Money that coild be spent on providing nursery school places free of charge and childcare. The list could go on regarding what to spend on. The conservative party does not reflect the vast majority of the population, but then neither does the Labour or Liberal party.

[@kevincoshner310]

Oh, they have a policy! It is simply that they dare not make it public.

[@Pierrick2009]

It is definitely a waste of money to be putting them up in hotels. Given that the economy is dramatically short of fit and motivated workers they should be issued with an NI number and put to work!

[@layaboutlout]

The largest expenditure by far is Tories giving each other backhanders at every single opportunity. Scandalous.

[@GreenZerg]

Well we were able to whilst in the EU. Sadly those agreements have not been replicated.

[@old_toucs6283]

It lasts until we stop voting for it. There is no god given right for any party to stay in power.

[@christinepereira7622]

Increasingly people are asking themselves: Where was I some 13 years ago, when the Tories got into government, and where am I now? I know that I am acutely aware that my life, and the lives of the people around me, have gotten significantly worse and worse over the curse of the last 13 years of having the Tories in charge of the country, and no amount of trying to blame foreigners, migrants, refugees, and minorities is going to cut it.

[@kalebdaark100]

I can't decide if the use of the word "curse" is a typo or deliberate, as it works either way. But that about sums it up for me. Sadly people do like to kick down instead of punching up.

[@euroman3726]

They are responsible for the biggest mess in my lifetime and I’m 66.

[@adagio333]

'Gotten' is American; 'got' is British. The greater the use of Americanisms, the greater erosion of British English.

[@thomasalexand]

The fundamental problem is that they are posing as conservatives. They are in fact U.N. and World Economic Forum stooges as is our soon-to-be king Charles.

[@simonclare100]

I agree, immigration is not yet the problem but will be if uncontrolled, racism has nothing to do with it, the liberal progressive revolution is at the heart of the problems across the west, it's a distorted view of people and institutions, if it achieves its ambitions it will destroy much more than it will fix, the educated classes will have to face the fact their views aren't as superior as they believe, reality will hit us all hard again, history shows much of the 'educated ' have been at the heart of stupid ideas for generations

[@barrywalsh7926]

Boris Johnson was a brilliant campaigner, but completely hopeless at governing.

[@jim-es8qk]

I agree. But he was arguably what was needed at that specific point in time. Boris won a majority, broke 3 years of Brexit deadlock, set up AUKUS, started negotiations with India and the trans pacific partnership. He also lead the charge against Russia. Sunak hasn't won anything, he inherited a safe Tory seat and a Boris Johnson 80 seat majority. It is not a surprise they are so far behind in the polls.

[@susangarbutt7189]

Politicians of whatever party are following the instructions from the WHO , the WEF and the UN while the British people are ignored.

[@byrnemeister2008]

Nonsense. It’s just the Rich getting Richer. Same old game. No need for some vast conspiracy.

[@zoltan-zq3xe]

Agree totally they have abandoned there brethren.

[@zoltan-zq3xe]

@@byrnemeister2008Were importing more poor not looking after our own it's morally wrong.

[@editorrbr2107]

I have family in Wales who immigrated legally from Norway a century ago. And even after just 25 years of Blairism, they don’t recognize their country anymore. They are not ethnically British or ethnically Welsh, but they bleed the union jack and are fierce UK nationalists who feel as though they have been silenced - especially by their own Conservative party. And they’re right.

[@AndrewSvonja]

they are begging for the over 50's to go back to work.. because younger people have a brain and wont work for a pittance for greedy corporates.. who give no benefits to the workforce. (btw im 56) got f all after 40 years of work..

[@elainekerslake6865]

Conservative means to conserve. That applies to society , nature , education , welfare , health etc etc etc. It's now fallen further than ever since year 2003.

[@MoniiChanTheUnicorn]

Conservatives have never conserved. They have always sold, they sell anything we have. Sold public transport, sold green spaces for development, trying to sell public healthcare, they are and always have been profits before people rather than people before profit.

[@karlpearce8976]

Impressive interview. Absolutely nailed the state of British politics in a sensible, evidence based manner.

[@manuelromeroarcos1639]

El reino unido o united kingdon jamás debe volver a la UE o EU

[@manuelromero8007]

UK out

[@Geo65582]

​@@manuelromero8007 why?

[@manuelromeroarcos1639]

@@Geo65582 because? Very simple because of what hapoened on june 23 2016

[@manuelromeroarcos1639]

Happened sorry

[@robertmiller2173]

Well I still think that the Brits, Aussies, Canadians, and New Zealanders should sit down and have a very good chat!

[@timhill9189]

It's not 1950. Those countries have long since moved on and are very different demographically as well.

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

About what? How to beat France, Ireland and SA at rugby? Or who is our Donald Trump? At one point Boris Johnson looked the part and even got nicknamed ‘Britain Trump’ but then lost his way.

[@robertmiller2173]

@@timhill9189 and thanks be to G Tim!

[@ssorcnivek]

Yes! This man absolutely nails it . Very refreshing to listen to him speak . Thanyou very much .

[@jumblestiltskin1365]

I'm no expert and this is second hand info, but to put it politely, I read recently he didn't always think this way and was rather more the other way.

[@Ok_yes_its_me]

He reflects your own hard right views?

[@manuelromeroarcos1639]

​@@Ok_yes_its_me uk jamás debe volver a Europa

[@manuelromeroarcos1639]

​@@jumblestiltskin1365 uk out of the Europe

[@csharpe5787]

​@@Ok_yes_its_me There's no good that ever comes from hard right. Just look at their contribution. Look at Truss, Trump and the state of america.

[@johnwade1095]

Less 'slowing change' more 'repairing damage'

[@phoenixreborn6065]

Exactly. We don't want slower change and decline. We want to repair and reverse the decline and move into a better future.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Most of it done by Tory austerity.

[@johnwade1095]

@Oldish andWoke-ish I was thinking more getting rid of the 'supreme court' and appointed House of Lords. And taxes on pensions. And decriminalize not having a tv license

[@davidoldboy5425]

I live in the red wall, I hope Labour thinking silence on the subject will spare them will realise they are wrong, voters realise Tories and Labour are the same, we are flocking to Reform.

[@DONALDSON51]

No he was right. It's not a feeling of confusion it is a feeling of betrayal!

[@aphroditeblighty]

Mathew Goodwin is spot on..I look forward to reading his book. Great interview, and refreshing to hear genuine views and analysis that is realistic rather than out of touch and virtue signaling

[@xwsftassell]

I'm not voting for a Lab/Con WEF Net Zero nightmare.

[@antiwoke6888]

Reform is the only hope.... They may not have the answers BUT at least they know the real problems

[@xwsftassell]

@@antiwoke6888 Maybe.

[@robgusterson2821]

The tories know that the public want immigration to be cut and controlled and at election time they campaign on this issue and once elected they carry on as usual, importing more immigrants, legal or illegal.

[@elipa3]

What? Dont they always say, they now have found a solution?

[@robgusterson2821]

@@elipa3 The numbers don't lie just the politicians. Just add twenty five percent.

[@pipins3616]

Spot on

[@kevincoshner310]

In 2024 GE the `tough on immigration clothing` will suddenly emerge from the Tory wardrobe and be dusted down. As soon as the election is over the clothing will return to the darkest recesses of the wardrobe.

[@deepblue8081]

Yes, except it won't work this time.

[@Skyrose1978]

@@deepblue8081 I don't know about that never underestimate the stupidity of a staunch Tory voter.

[@nat75kemp]

Rees Moog and his haunted wardrobe springs to mind ugh....

[@staceygrove5976]

There are two main elements in today's Conservative Party. Firstly people who are essentially Lib Dems, who might have been known as 'Wets' a few decades ago. Secondly, 'Libertarian' types who are mainly interested in deregulation, tax cuts and idiotic fantasies about turning the UK into Singapore. Neither of these factions are fit for purpose, and neither have any respect for traditional social conservative values. If we still had a proper Conservative Party (or even a proper Labour Party for that matter), things might not look quite as bleak as they do at present.

[@godfriedmontana2705]

As someone from a working class background who made a modest career with a large multinational and concluded that some sort of comprise between socialism and capitalism represents our best chance of living in peace and prosperity I entirely agree. Unfortunately we'll never get that until we get proportional representation which may be never.

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

It is just as bad for conservatives elsewhere in Europe. Look what happened to Sarkozy’s party in France, Merkel’s in Germany and Rajoy’s in Spain.

[@dorsai]

Mass migration isn't just a British problem.

[@pollyparrot8759]

No but Britain can't do anything about other countries, only about Britain and the Governement are failing miserably on that front.

[@pollyparrot8759]

@@evolassunglasses4673 And socialism will never close borders to immigration as it doesn't believe in nation states .... they are all as bad as each other in different ways.

[@Ok_yes_its_me]

Europe is finished without migration. Just look at Japan.

[@jazztheglass6139]

@@evolassunglasses4673 it's also fueled higher housing costs, reduced availability, forced people to move much further out to get affordable housing, increasing travel time and costs to get to work, living areas in residences reduced in size. In addition it has also stopped wages raising with inflation. Due to over supply of labour A double whammy

[@jim-es8qk]

​@@evolassunglasses4673Exactly!!

[@belltopcone]

I voted Brexit and of course now I regret being taken in by all the lies.

[@flitsertheo]

@@evolassunglasses4673 Moving power from the EU superstate to Westminster is not exactly a bright idea. From 27 governments who keep each other more or less in check to 1 government doing whatever it wants.

[@timhill9189]

@@flitsertheo There is no superstate. The EU is run by its members.

[@TheLincolnrailsplitt]

This interview is a breath of fresh air. Godwin's analysis of the Tory Party's failures is spot on. The UK conservative elites have spectacularly lost the culture war.

[@Tony-1971]

Matthew Goodwin spot on as usual. 💯👍🏻

[@grahamwebber5795]

What we need is more lots more imigration, illegal and legal so we actually sink. One thing is for sure imigration has definitely made housing for us an impossible dream.

[@BarriosGroupie]

Note that Matthew is Professor of Politics in the School of Politics and International Relations at the University of Kent. As of September 2022 he is a commissioner of the Social Mobility Commission. I think he's done a great job in somehow bringing up the politically sensitive issues that fundamentally matter to many like British identity, culture etc and the effect of immigration via globalization upon this.

[@s1nb4d59]

Always enjoy Steven as an interviewer,please keep him on,always asks sensible questions,getting tired of mainstream media and times radio ect asking the same old stale questions.

[@mc.8391]

Matthew Goodwin has hit the spot head on as far as I am concerned. He has named all the things that I have thought for the past 30 odd years. I will definitely buy his book.

[@CCDR07]

No, he is spouting a load of identity politics nonsense and distraction from the very real disparities between classes regarding access to healthcare, justice/the courts, education, healthy food and environment, etc! The vast majority of MPs making up the government of the last 13 years have been Oxford "elite" graduates, including Brexiteers latterly, who all seek every opportunity to be "anit-woke" and pander to identity politic BS. Class and race disparities are very real, but inflating them into political issues that dominate politial discourse pure and simply removes focus from all the undemocratic influence of entrenched wealth/power on our governance institutions, and divides people along illusionary identity politic lines that have no material basis on their well-being.

[@stumccabe]

I don't want lower migration, I don't even want zero migration - I want negative migration!

[@raph_csg]

Leave then

[@stumccabe]

@@raph_csg Why should I leave the country of my ancestors - they've been here for at least 1500 years?

[@Aaron-zh7qm]

@@stumccabe doubt they’ve been here that long pal

[@stumccabe]

@@Aaron-zh7qm I'm not your pal. The scientific evidence shows that the present day English people are a mixture of the indigenous people who migrated here 3000 to 4500 years ago, and the "Anglo Saxons" who arrived about 1500 years ago. People with that ancestry make up the vast majority of English people. So I didn't just pluck the figure 1500 out of the air.

[@godfriedmontana2705]

@@Aaron-zh7qm Stu McCabe is basically correct except that the wave who came here around 4000 years ago were not indigenous in the sense that they were the first people to get here after the last ice age. Those people arrived around 12000 years ago. DNA evidence suggests that there was a certain amount of ethnic cleansing along the way with the wave which arrived around 4000 years ago replacing the people who built Stonehenge. But don't expect to hear that from the BBC. It doesn't fit the woke narrative.

[@meepmeister1161]

Impressive interview, as one of the working class I utterly agree with the majority of that analysis, apathy, and utter disgust in the way both sides of the house have behaved. Neither of those parties gives me any confidence that my views are appreciated or will help me or my family in the future. Media institutions such as the BBC have become so one-sided that me and quite a few of the people I know have moved to the internet to get a more grounded and balanced overview. As for voting in the next election, why bother? it will just be more of the same, as far as I am concerned. Farage had quite a large number of people voted for him last time, and it amounted to nothing due to the winner takes all politics, ie, first past the post.

[@amarenehemiah7858]

My first thought with reference to the EU migrant workers was that all that will happen is they will simply get cheap labour from somewhere else and I was correct. Neither party cares too much about the indigenous population of this country and they never have .

[@clarkeorchard2304]

Tories have been in power for the majority of the last few decades. Not impressed. Integrity pppfff. I am always amazed. The Tories are a party made for the rich, which most of us are not. No wonder we continually get shafted.

[@jim-es8qk]

No it hasn't, labour were in power between 1997 and 2010. Labour are in control of all the regional assemblies in England and the SNP are in control in Scotland.

[@clarkeorchard2304]

@@jim-es8qk thanks. That's my point. The majority of the last few decades.

[@joycegibbs5267]

these Tories just followed Blairism. It's worked up to now but it's finally killed us.

[@therainbowgulag.]

Fleeing to Liebour. Like that will make any difference.

[@testudohorsfieldii7052]

I think it is worth remembering that a good leader and politician doesn't just pander to people's prejudices, they actively seek to lead for the good of the Country even when it might cost them popularity or votes. Both May and Johnson, who I am not fans of, both tried to deal with the issues of social care, and sadly were crucified by the Telegraph for doing so, who didnt come up with solutions of their own. Furthermore ss a northern voter I get a bit tired of the phrase red wall, which conjurs up an image that we are all poorly educated reactionary refugee haters obsessed with Brexit and are somehow distinct from the rest of the Country.

[@noeyes6151]

I think the red wall means it was labour land before the con conned👍 As a southerner born I don't think northerners are any of those things, just better with the cold than us most likely😃👍

[@normanchristie4524]

Neither of them gave a toss for the wellbeing for the UK. As far as I am concerned, 'the red wall' made its democratic decision and must live with it. We are all suffering the Tories and brexit as a result!

[@paultaylor7947]

I feel the country has changed its social identity

[@manuelromero8007]

UK out of Europe

[@sallard9]

Lack of affordable housing, inadequate wages, continual movement of wealth from poor to rich. Face the real issues!

[@octopusman9969]

The only really difference between both main political parties is the parties colour's,most people I talk to wouldn't vote for either.

[@endintiers]

Yeah! Lib Dems 4 EVA!

[@musiqueetmontagne]

Fantastic interview as always Steven. The content of this interview is of the highest order. Mathew Goodwin presents real facts, the way they are, always backed up by academic research and not bogged down by political dogma or neurotic political leaning... The people in power should listen to this. Also, I wish your interviews had a separate notification from the mass of Telegraph ones, easy to miss unfortunately.

[@gregorykent3482]

One of the few voices of the people. Brilliant interview with someone who had huge knowledge and articulacy, but more importantly brings evidence to the debate and thinks in an independent and critical way. So rare these days. One thing: I'm not sure the government under 'f..k bizness' BJ, who brought in under lockdown policies, the most damaging restrictions ever (especially on small businesses) was actually very much bothered about the interests of business.

[@TheDccottrell]

the voices of YOUR sort of people, that does not make him a "voice of the people" who vote mainly for left of centre parts and are socially liberal.

[@elipa3]

Lol. He is just doing slogans.

[@maureenbarclay2127]

Totally agree . I think we should look to what the Danish are doing. They've been challenged by the ECHR but they are committed to having a lower level of immigration. Alongside a programme to integrate. Which is really radical. Why is the view point of only 16% of the population more important than the majority. He is right about universities that's where the change has to start

[@schmozzer]

By and large, what Mathew says is pertinent and free of doctrine. This is why it isn't just conservatives who are listening. Some people on the left are listening too.

[@fricozoid1]

"A sense of confusion in Leave voters" - but that's always been the case 🤣

[@vicjones3992]

Coz the EU is so honest and trustworthy 😂

[@fricozoid1]

@@vicjones3992 🤣🤣🤣 nobody is talking about that but thanks for proving my point about Leave voters being continuously confused 🤣🤣🤣

[@chingling4375]

Migration can be selective. It does not imply racism . Quality of immigration is immigration, provess of integration and monitoring immigrant behaviour is important to decide howw we might allow selective migration.

[@clarkeorchard2304]

I agree generally with interview. I will also add that I want a halt to this Americanism of politics, where who controls the media matters. I would like policies that start from the bottom and not the top.

[@timseytiger9280]

Supporting the telegraph isn't a good start then is it?

[@clarkeorchard2304]

@@timseytiger9280 nope, but I use it mainly for Ukraine war updates

[@davidcooke8059]

@@clarkeorchard2304 - I would think it’s one of the least reliable sources for the Ukraine War

[@socialmeaslesinpartnership1252]

Revolution, rebellion and insurrection build slowly. Just about all the building blocks are in place in Britain PLC.

[@Bad_Gnasher]

Excellent interview. I'll definitely be vote Reform UK.

[@PoppiesAndPride]

CAN WE HAVE OUR LIFES BACK PLEASE CLOSE OUR BORDERS NOW

[@peterashcroft8058]

Matt Goodwin gets it. But i fear many listening do not. In a FPTP system Reform are not going to replace the Conservative Party. They will merely split it and keep a right of centre government out of office for decades. Much better for Reform minded individuals to take over the conservative party - there is after all a sizable chunk of the membership who are already supportive. De-select wet Tory MPs (Damien Green has just been deselected) and select genuinely conservative candidates. That will change the Parliamentary party.

[@normanchristie4524]

Oh Goody!

[@russellwhite1581]

The problem with this strategy is that many will not stomach joining the Tories and effectively having to defend their inaction on so many issues to those they wish to recruit. A better way would be to go for those Red Wall 2.0 places that Matthew mentioned (Sunderland, Barnsley, Mexbrough, Skelmersdale etc) that aren't woke but detest the Tories. The party that can do that will stop Labour from winning a majority while also building the roots of the said "left on economics/right on social" policy party to replace one of the main parties.....

[@pincermovement72]

Tried it before never makes a difference

[@bryangeake5826]

I think that will simply reinforce the existing binary structure. PR will shake up the Left and the Right and give the Centre a chance to express what a majority of voters actually want!

[@linyarin]

Damien Green has not been deselected: his constituency no longer exists and he was unsuccessful in the first constituency he applied for.

[@Centurion101B3C]

Quite an astute gauge of the current British political landscape and the recent geology, so to speak, that shaped it. In short he made clear that the Tories are making themselves up to play Russian roulette with a Stengun of their own choice, which is to say entered into a fray that they can never hope to win and that is getting exponentially worse by whatever they are undertaking in their feeble attempts of mitigation. Not being British myself, means that I may have my own sympathies, but have no real dog in this fight, but leads me to conclude that by choosing a basically pro-Brexit stance and pushing that through and currently in political power, the Tory party has essentially hand-fed the rounds into the ammunition clip, which they then also, by their own volition and with clear intent entered into the mentioned Russian Roulette with, with themselves as the first contestant.

[@marianhunt8899]

It's not just emigration, it's dire poverty. The Tories forgot a vital part 'bread and games'. They forgot the 'bread'. Working people are hungry and cold and increasingly homeless!

[@Unicorn-on9to]

We are happy about our multi party parliaments in Scandinavia. Everyone can vote for a certain fraction within the blocks or in the middle and the parties eventually building a government has to negotiate all the time. Voters are engaged in politics as it becomes a more representative democracy with around 85% going to the polls. I find it quite problematic i.e. to watch how a smaller fraction in the US can intimidate and dominate the whole Republican party.

[@paulhevan322]

Unfortunately all the English parliament is focusing on is money. Nothing else. More tax for less, it's been this way for many years.

[@Ok_yes_its_me]

Be aware this is a hard right channel for racists

[@ajs41]

What about the UK?

[@normanchristie4524]

@@paulhevan322 The fundamental problem is that it is not an English parliament, its MPs are supposed to reflect the interests of the UK.

[@paulhevan322]

@@ajs41 devolved parliament in all parts of the "UK" except England. Except for England all other corners of the "UK" have powers that do not have to pass in the "English" parliament.

[@winstonsmith8240]

I'd say he's summed it up pretty well. God help us all.

[@williamthompson4389]

The current Government is very good at one thing - Complete Failure. We desperately need REFORM and the sooner the better.

[@loolfactorie]

I can't understand why anyone has trust in either of the two big parties, and why people constantly swing between them thinking they will change anything drastically. I also do not understand why Brexit is being solely blamed for the current economic climate, and not the economic damages from Covid and now the Russo-Ukr war.

[@stephenjohnson2800]

Cameron was bad enough but Johnson is primarily the cause of the escalation into a bankrupt nation, both social and economic. The desire to pander to small but loud minorities has been a disaster.

[@keithsewell8389]

Excellent discussion.

[@JTonson]

Matthew Goodwin is excellent.

[@manuelromero8007]

UK out of Europe

[@Geo65582]

​@@manuelromero8007 why??

[@manuelromeroarcos1639]

@@Geo65582 june 23 2016

[@daviddevoy2197]

Lineker was factually correct. If only a small portion of the electorate empathise with him, that is scary.

[@vatsmith8759]

Rubbish, Germany didn't have an immigration problem in the thirties.

[@russellwhite1581]

This is the man we OUGHT to have as PM, rather than only a political commentator. Everything he says is spot on.

[@andrewgamble5332]

It's only a crisis for those who care about living standards, environment and public services.The writing on the wall.

[@robertsmuggles6871]

Labour, Tory and Media firms have their own focus-groups that will be reporting exactly the same findings. Conservative-minded people now find themselves as just another aggrieved minority living out demographic extinction. This may be good - the pretence that today's Conservative party is conservative in any way - has been deceitful. Under Labour, the UK will become a developing country & it will have to come to terms with this diminishment of status. The image of a British leader like Boris strutting around the world's stage as if we still had an empire will be gone hopefully. Keep an eye on the Falklands, our overseas dependencies will be vulnerable like never before.

[@deepblue8081]

When the decline accelerates under "Labour" maybe the ignorant will wake up. However I'm not betting on it.

[@rogerwoodhouse7945]

Yes indeed .Boris was the last throw of the dice for what remained of little England.He was 50 years too late though.The British people were 'sold a pup' and boy are we still paying for it.

[@marcoantoniochierici]

Brexit voters fleeing Tories after mass migration failure - I loved this grammar.

[@georgethepatriot2785]

Brexit never arrived . Peoples vote was 'done in' . Time for the 3 main parties to be confined to history?

[@tonygold1661]

A great many of the problems discussed here arose directly from past government policies, both labour and conservative. Politics must be about improving the life of the population. A political class of individuals populate Parliament who are ill equipped by experience, or cognitive ability, to make the complex decisions required in a modern data and science driven world.

[@glenhiggs3196]

Finally found someone who understands exactly how I feel nice one Matthew 👍

[@annishilcock4587]

Oh my goodness.... this country is not the country I was once proud of. And the rot started wih Thatcher,,,closing down industry, breaking up the sense of community and in her last hurrah of the fabricated Falklands war showing how powerless we have since become on the world stage. Leaving the EU where we were respected as an important and influential member was the final strawa and further illustrated how we are now no more than a Little England doomed to play the eternal role of victim as a justification of our demise RIP. .

[@lenwilkinson672]

If the people vote Labour at the next general election,they will deserve what will happen.

[@seriousoldman8997]

And what will that be?

[@leonardgibney2997]

Only issue number two? We're doomed.

[@mesolithicman164]

Matt really knows his stuff. He also knows that 'legend in his own lunchtime', Dominic Cummings is another one of these over-rated blowhards that hover over the carcass of British politics. Matthew's observation on the inability of Conservatives to see the world around them and how its changing blinds them to an avenue of potential salvation at the next GE. Their obsession with issues around wealth and position will be their undoing. I'm also not sure about Tice's ability to rally the troops, he just seems to be a guy out of his depth and with no killer instinct.

[@elkpaz560]

They're all out of their depth which is why they follow the crowd - their crowd not ours.

[@joycegibbs5267]

I agree regarding Tice. He's weak.

[@mesolithicman164]

@@joycegibbs5267 Ben Habib is a man who seems driven to achieve. Richard looks like a guy who wears deck shows and a blazer at the weekend.

[@alanmcdade2459]

Yes there is a sense of betrayal.

[@petercumpson6867]

Oh goodness, if only we could elect this guy straight in to being PM!

[@andreeas.2362]

Why new parties cannot emerge? Even as conservatives (real conservative party or the like) new parties should emerge and offer an alternative. Is political party law so restrictive? I ask just as curiosity. I am not British, but this might happen in my country too.

[@germansnowman]

It’s the First Past the Post system. It is biased against small parties. The UK needs Proportional Representation.

[@just_another32]

Matt is such a good speaker. And the content is always interesting too!

[@manuelromero8007]

UK 🇬🇧 out of Europe

[@lordbiro]

This is a conversation to be had after the Tories have been unceremoniously thrown out after the next election. The country is in a parlous state, and Tories have been here for 13 years, I wonder if there is a connection ? hmmm, let me think 🤔

[@richardsimms251]

I like most scholars Great talk

[@susanpotter9720]

Correct..

[@paulrimmer391]

Tories just follow the American lead, whatever that is.

[@greyvoice7949]

Politicians are not fit to run this Country (current crop and establishment Party's).

[@dickonbuckland1610]

Can we please have Matthew Goodwin in politics!

[@elkpaz560]

Always supposing the vote is going to reflect electorate choice. Attention should be paid to the method of counting votes and the complete 'liberalisation' of mail votes.

[@andrewcox2810]

What other political party represents the indigenous English people can we get behind.The mainstream parties are all unelectable in my opinion.

[@abrayshaw1657]

Mr Goodwin presumes that the disaffected majority, will be switching from the liberal Tory party to the liberal Labour party. What has recently happened in the Netherlands and Italy can happen here. That is despite a first past the post voting system.

[@markdewison1261]

“the more we stoke public anger and distrust on immigration, the more we threaten the stability of our political system”. The answer was to “chart another course”. Mathew Goodwin in 2013.

[@pedazodetorpedo]

Goodwin 1 - 0 Cummings

[@elkpaz560]

The importance given to Cummings has been the result of the progressives needing a villain to blame for Brexit. Dominic Cumberbatch was to blame.

[@onkellippi-os2dy]

I think the Kremlin sponsored the Brexit campaign, or at least supported it via its channels. The same way, it supported the Catalan independence campaign from Spain. In Germany, the parties which were most anti-Kremlin lost a secure majority just before the elections, after a media campaign against their candidates. The Kremlin tries to divide and weaken Europe, because democratic countries are its main rival. If Western unity ends, it may also lead to an end of sanctions or support for Ukraine‘s fight for freedom.

[@philgee7249]

Excellent comment. 👍

[@Ok_yes_its_me]

I think the EU and UK have so far been closely aligned over the war. It's important this continues and I think it will.

[@johnbagshaw1608]

​@@Ok_yes_its_me .Why do most EU countries spend less than 2% on defense. The EU shelters behind USA and UK. Only seven NATO member states meet spending goal despite Russia’s war.The US, the UK, Poland, Estonia, Greece, Latvia and Lithuania meet 2%

[@anitahill4459]

This man has summed up my view on the present situation as I see it now, I tried as a Conservative then UKIPer and fought for us to leave the EU and trusted the Cons again, what a total let-down they've been. Reform will be my last hope now

[@davidsimpson8192]

Really! why ,?

[@colindant3410]

​@@davidsimpson8192 Both of the mainstream parties are rubbish, and have systematically destroyed the Britain of my childhood, youth and young adulthood. They may not have intended to do so, but their attempts to adjust the tiller to mitigate the deleterious effects of their policies over the years since 1979 have simply resulted in pulling the rug from under a sizeable minority of the population who have been left behind. The selling off of public housing, without the public housing stock being replaced, combined with the relaxation of credit controls, simply fuelled house price inflation, which compromised the development of new households, which has led to a reduction in the birth-rate. This in turn stimulated liberal immigration policies which has, in an increasing number of areas of the country, materially altered the day to day reality of living in the UK. Most sensible countries in the world would not allow the immigration of people with an alien culture on a scale that Britain has. The powers that be have overseen the destruction of much of Britain as I remember it.

[@ambient675]

It is politically expedient for Rishi Sunak not to consider membership of the single market and to avoid that possibility at all costs. He has to retain the votes of the ignorant and uneducated in order that his party not be completely obliterated at the next General Election.

[@qboxer]

One piece at the end point regarding Canada - Social and cultural conservatism are pariahs in Canada. The Reform party replaced the Progressive Conservatives in Canada as the main conservative opposition and then ended up (as the Canadian Alliance) merging with the rump PCs as the Conservative Party of Canada in 2003. However - this is really the key point - the party remained divided between different factions, and I would argue that its modern party has been colonised by the progressive movement as everyone else in the Anglosphere, barring some elements of the US Republicans.

[@AndrewSvonja]

we still have the "bedroom tax" which has never been recinded which ian duncan smith is still quite proud and smug about..

[@ApfelFlix]

Great interview, but it raised more questions than it answered. At least for me…

[@somethingintheair5373]

I have only one question. How can we get our voting system changed to PR?

[@fpvangel4495]

Theyre all the same team, puppets for somewhere else.

[@andreazavras]

This always happens to culture when communits infiltrate a country.

[@AB-zl4nh]

I can sum this up. Many grandparents and grandkids disagree on the kind of Britain they want to live in. From minor issues like the Monarchy to major one's like Brexit, older people trend on one side and younger people trend on the other. It's not the same for everyone, of course there's a minority in each generation that think different. But by in large it's generational differences.

[@manuelromero8007]

UK out of Europe

[@Ok_yes_its_me]

@@manuelromero8007 the UK can't leave Europe because that is the continent it is part of. Sadly we left the EU and any return is many years away.

[@safirahmed]

Some Tories in Brexitland self identify as being a country in the Pacific in terms of trade and economic influence.

[@manuelromero8007]

@@Ok_yes_its_me británicos fuera no os queremos en Europa

[@russellwhite1581]

@@safirahmed - which is why we need a non-Atlanticist party rather than the main ones to run post-Brexit Britain.... I think Matthew Goodwin was making that point when he spoke of the changes since 1979...