Brexit: What Is Democracy? | Philosophy Tube

A Scifi Odyssey to the heart of democracy
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Bibliography:
“The Antidote to Civilisational Collapse,” Adam Curtis interview with The Economist www.economist....
Kojo Koram, “Britain’s Blindness,” in Dissent Magazine www.dissentmag...
Eoin O’Malley, “Brexit Offers A Prized Return to the Blitz Spirit,” in The Times www.thetimes.c...
Pankaj Mishra, “The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class,” in The New York Times www.nytimes.co...
William Shakespeare, Coriolanus
Mill, Utilitarianism, A Few Words on Non-Interventionism, and Considerations on Representative Government socialsciences... (PDF)
Fricker, Epistemic Injustice tinyurl.com/y3...
Medina, The Epistemology of Resistance tinyurl.com/y4...
Mbembe, Necropolitics (pdf) warwick.ac.uk/...
Simplican, The Capacity Contract tinyurl.com/y4...
Mitchell, “An Unbroken Assertion of Sovereignty,” in Drumbeat ed. Boyce Richardson tinyurl.com/y5...
Arend Lijphart, “Unequal Participation; Democracy’s Unresolved Dilemma,” in The American Political Science Review
Annabelle Lever, “Compulsory Voting: A Critical Perspective” in The British Journal of Political Science
Moxie Marlinspike, Windy Hart, “An Anarchist Critique of Democracy” theanarchistli...
Harsha Walia, Undoing Border Imperialism tinyurl.com/y6...
Philosophy Tube, Immigration, Sovereignty, and the EU • Immigration, Sovereign...
Hbomberguy, “How Should I Vote in the EU Referendum?” • How Should I Vote In T...
ARRIVAL (2016, dir. Denis Villeneuve)
Lessons from the Screenplay Arrival: Examining An Adaptation - • Arrival - Examining an...
“The Apocalypse We Need: MeToo and Transformative Justice Part 1” How to Survive the End of the World Podcast
Jessica Elgot, “Vote Leave Fined and Reported to Police by Electoral Commission,” in The Guardian www.theguardia...
Nathaniel Perlisy, “Americans are Losing Faith in Democracy - and In Each Other,” in The Washington Post www.washington...
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‘Destination Zero’ by Nina Richards www.ninarichard...
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#Brexit #SciFi

[@PhilosophyTube]

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[@PhilosophyTube]

@Diogenes TheDog The videos get uploaded a few days in advance so $15+ Patrons can see them early!

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

Well, EU fave those 11 and 13 Articles. Like, that will destroy internet.

[@erdood3235]

1:27 I actually like that style better

[@painterQjensen]

So my paranoia was right, you handsome devil you. -.- @@PhilosophyTube #Thereisbeer

[@arcarsenal1380]

@@principleshipcoleoid8095 But, the UK has already introduced laws which affect our internet use (despites TTP being knocked back, they still slipped through restrictive bills) . Have you tried to find a torrent from a UK IP lately lol?

[@johannageisel5390]

You don't have a Dictatorship of Non-Criminals, just a Dictatorship of Non-Convicted.

[@MCAndyT]

+

[@LvLupXD]

You're not a criminal if you can pay enough money to make it a not a crime

[@Frank-oz8be]

"Fines are for poor people"

[@Feasco]

Privilege comes from privilegeum or "private law" ie law that is available to those that can afford it

[@viinisaari]

Criminal is an arbitrary label anyways.

[@wweltz]

"What if people make their democratic decisions not based on information at all but based on something else?" ... my mom voted for Mitt Romney because she thought he was hot.

[@BARTMAN8603]

When we had elections in germany in 2017 many femal friends of mine voted for the market-liberal partys (FDP) candidat Christan Lindner because they considered him as hot. Half of the election program of Lindners Party was literally just highly polished pictures of him and many news outlets made fun of the program as a parfum promotion. So yeah that seems to be a reason.

[@OneEyeShadow]

I find this weird and incomprehensible, the opinion more so than the behaviour.

[@JohnTrustworthy]

I don't think the system works.

[@stevencolatrella3257]

While I voted for Obama in that election, I am not sure your mom is wrong in that sometimes people are looking to be inspired. I believe that both JFK and Obama won in 1960 and 2008 in large part because of this desire to be inspired to something better or worth doing, rather than by any specific policy proposals.

[@Leeqzombie]

The first time I voted in the Australian Federal Election I chose parties based on names without actually looking into their policies. Which, arguably, a lot of people do, it's branding, and people trust the labels to be accurate. Though, unfortunately, they're often not. The Democratic Labour Party even changed their name on the ballot to be "Labour DLP" to try to get people rushing through the vote to get them confused for the Labor party. The Health Party used to be called the Natural Medicine Party, where 'casual' voters this time around might assume them to support increasing the accessibility of conventional medicine or something (the party is literally the opposite, unless you think vaccines aren't medicine). It's really actually quite surprising how much election campaigns are based on perception rather than actual truth, and just how deceptive it all can be.

[@rhiannonself2754]

The bit about some natives in canada not voting in canadian elections is very interesting to me. Im choctaw and was old enough to vote in my tribal elections before american ones. As i was getting closer to 18 i was debating whether it was even worth voting in us elections since it didnt really seem like i mattered to america. Ultimately i decided i was going to vote in the us election and i voted in all of them, even the local ones after i turned 18. There was a big difference in the attitude of those elections. With tribal elections and votes i was sent my ballot without having to ask for it and there was a whole website run by the elders (written by the elders but actually put up by their kids who know how to use computers) breaking down everything being voted on and what it meant. With american elections i had to go out, get registered, then go to vote, and it took a lot of time to find information on what i was voting on. I know tribal votes are on a much much smaller scale, but it was really interesting to see a different way of doing voting, and it really showed how inconvenient and difficult american elections are.

[@johannageisel5390]

Here in Germany you also get your invitation to elections automatically. You need to register in the city in which you live anyway and that means your adress is known to the local authorities. So a few weeks before each election everybody gets sent a letter via mail which tells you where your poll location is. They are pretty close together. I usually only had to walk for 3 to 5 minutes to reach it.

[@IcestormTundra]

That's kind of fascinating and incredible. I live in the UK and due to moving cities I couldn't vote in the referendum (you have to be registered to vote at a specific address). I've been campaigning for a second vote ever since, but we receive a lot of backlash from people scared that the vote will turn out different and we'll actually remain in the EU. I don't even agree with the EU on many matters, but the laws they have in place for environmental protection and animal rights are so good, that with the IPCC 2018 report and the threat that an unrestrained tory government would not put adequate laws in place to meet its recommendations... we need to remain. We can't risk our planet's future like that. Not to mention most of my family is Irish and will be heavily effected by a hard border. I'm so scared the Troubles will start up again and they could be hurt.

[@IsaVarg]

In Norway you don't need to register at all. You get an invitation, you go with some form of ID with your picture on it (a bank card will do), and you're in and out within 5 minutes. It's super easy, and there are voting stations 5-20 minutes away from pretty much anywhere you live, unless you live way out in the wilderness. It really should be that easy everywhere.

[@54tisfaction]

US elections are designed to keep the masses away from the voting booth. They want people with the economic freedom to vote on a weekday, and those people are targeted with information sent to their home by the parties.

[@andrewlaporte5477]

@@54tisfaction Puerto Rico is (reportedly, I'm Midwestern) better than the mainland, because their elections are made a holiday. There is much variation between states in voter requirements, so much so I don't believe we have equal right to vote because of more than the electoral college. For instance, in Michigan you must vote for the first time face-to-face, and do some hogwash verification process weeks in advance. I couldn't go because my student pass didn't put me on the busline I needed, and I lacked the mobility and time to vote at home.

[@OrotundBucket]

"Karl, baby, we NEED to have a talk about branding" cracked me up

[@sundayschoolflunkie3979]

For all his great ideas, he didn't really sell people on them.

[@dosbilliam]

That's about what I thought when I tried reading Capital; the theory is fairly solid, but it's about as dry as a drought in Death Valley.

[@limaoseptimus]

@@dosbilliam capital is a theory book, thats kind of the point. Theres A LOT of texts by him and Engels that are much more useful for propaganda. Also, the Capital was considered an acessible book in 19th century germany, workers were literate as fuuuuuck

[@olivesantos1840]

@Dumbo Octopus Marx was a Jew lmao he wrote a lot ot yikes stuff but he didn't advocate for antisemitism

[@kas6223]

@@olivesantos1840 He didn't live as a Jew, though he may have been born one. He wrote an essay called On the Jewish Question, which is one of the most important works in terms of his ideas about liberty, in which he essentially says that political emancipation for Jews can only come from being emancipated from Judaism (he had a similar view for all religion), which obviously is antisemitic from a certain perspective, but I would reccomend reading it and formulating an opinion for yourself as it is a very nuanced piece of writing.

[@McMontros]

Seems like "Democracy" is having an identity crisis everywhere. I'm from Japan, and while a majority of Okinawans voted to stop a new US military base from being constructed, the government seems keen on continuing "for the good of the country as a whole". If thats Democracy then I don't know what is anymore.

[@Capricorn228]

Living in Okinawa atm, and it seems that the Japanese government finds Okinawa a convenient carpet to sweep everything it doesnt want on the mainland, under.

[@NimhLabs]

@deepweeb dive yeah, the whole "they will get money from it" is not even close to accurate. It is more a pipeline that will pump Canadian money, jobs and work out of Canada. People keep saying it will bring in money and jobs... but it is all just completely unfounded conjecture with no evidence to indicate it--and plenty of previous interactions that would suggest Canada will just lose out. It is a lie... and one of the worst kind: one that everybody really really wants to believe is true.

[@nachomartinez4758]

In the early 80's, the socialist party in Spain run with the promise of not allowing Spain to enter NATO, and therefore not allow american military bases in our territory. That was one of the main points of the campaign, and they won by a landslide. The very first thing they did was to enter NATO and allow the construction of american military bases.

[@1ryb360]

Not to even mention Okinawa was basically colonized by Japan in a lot of the same sense the American continent was colonized by the Europeans, and Japanese government rarely recognize it.

[@雷-t3j]

That is democracy. US military bases in Okinawa are "good for the country as a whole" in as far as Japan being well defended, part of the global economy, and not needing nuclear weapons is a public good. And the central point of a functioning democratic system is that sometimes the few need to give something up for the good of the many.

[@gabriellebueche3643]

I really like that she keeps emphasizing that no matter which way the brexit vote had gone, the system surrounding it is still flawed. I think it makes her arguments more accessible to people of differing viewpoints, hopefully

[@LindsayEllisVids]

This is the first Contact reference I've seen on KZbin that didn't come from UNHhhh

[@HylianNobody]

Love to see that I wasn't the only one who instantly had Katya in mind.

[@ihaveasecret9539]

Hey Mrs. Obama.

[@Kumbancha]

I will totally Jodie Foster this kind of reference

[@PhilosophyTube]

I went through a wormhole and appeared on a beach and Katya was there and she told me to do it

[@AndroidsDontDance]

@@PhilosophyTube Can we just all (olly, Lindsay and Katya) sit on a beach and talk about contact for like 5 minutes? Please and thank you.

[@appleslover]

The year is 2022. Britain has been out of the European Union for only 2 years and already it is flourishing. Within days of gaining its financial independence, Welsh and Scottish Nationalism died; the union has never been stronger. Ireland rejoined in a second act of union. The countries of the Commonwealth flocked to be taken back as crown dominions and colonies, begging for British rule once again. India declares Queen Elizabeth II Empress. Even the original 13 colonies of North America forgo their silly republic and swear loyalty to the Queen, who has been reborn as a gorgeous youthful Goddess with the power to restore Churchill to life. One pound is now worth over 200 dollars. France admits we were better all along. Angela Merkel ends herself as her plan to form the fourth Reich and displace the white populations of Europe is brought low. Rule Britannia the world cries out... Britannia rules the world... Nigel Farage awakes; his brow wet and his plaid pyjamas slightly sticky...

[@leahwu7125]

this is a lot less funny to read in 2020 as many in Hong Kong beg to be taken back by the UK.

[@kamilareeder1493]

* thunderous applause *

[@carmenruiz7068]

Best comment I've seen in a while

[@yoyo-lf3ld]

I'm with nigel. That aroused me.

[@appleslover]

@@leahwu7125 and these people weren't not around to remember being a colony of Britain. Britain didn't give Hong Kong democracy, they could've done that but they didn't, they also could've helped Hong Kongers by giving them British citizenship - but when asked to do so they wanted Portugal not to give Macauans Portuguese citizenship so they don't look silly - but suprise suprise, they didn't. And that's not to discuss the period of British rule in Hong Kong where you'd find signs saying : no dogs, no Chinese ... ,you get the idea .. And I know I know, the CCP is terrible but that doesn't make the British angles, and keep your whataboutism to yourself.

[@pkmcburroughs]

Oliver Thorn is a great name. It sounds like a superhero's secret identity.

[@emememememememememe]

it's a superhero's very public identity :)

[@arnaudmenard5114]

I soooo want a gender swap of Poison-ivy’s called “nettle-sting”.

[@janesmith1840]

@casual complaints Remember when one of the nameless enemies in that game walked up to Batman and spent 40 minutes talking about the definition of democracy? Yeah me neither. Fuck off.

[@grendelfreak]

Damien Thorn was already taken :D

[@pengfeidong5268]

*FBI OPEN UP*

[@McBignLargeBJ64]

the thing about the undercover cops having children with the activists is wild.

[@Flowtail]

I’d love to get a memoir from one of them-that was shitty of them, but i’d be fascinated to hear how they dealt with it

[@22015slee]

@@Flowtail 'Shitty' is one way of putting it. I'd prefer 'absolutely fucking disgusting', since what two things that act involves is rape (having sex with their partners under a false identity, thus invalidating their partners' consent) and gaslighting, and I'm sure smarter people can list more awful aspects. I'd imagine such a memoir would read like a more personal if less viscerally horrifying version of a memoir of Eichmann, in that this would charitably be considered a case of the banality of evil.

[@qwertyCandy]

22015slee I also have to think about what will happen to those children when they learn that not only were they not wanted by at least one of their parents, but they were just a part of an assignment, just some tool used to strengthen the cover, nothing more. That must be devastating to learn.

[@chi8514]

@@22015slee really youre going to call it rape

[@georgeparkins777]

@@chi8514 Hell fucking yes. Fuck off.

[@wakkacraft84]

In America right now there's a push to have election day be a holiday, which would help with turnout.

[@jauxro]

It seems pretty essential, honestly

[@casey3889]

I just found out that it isn't and furthermore that it isn't even on the weekend and I'm kinda shocked. In germany, as far as I'm aware, election day is always on a sunday, so while not everyone has no work there, it is a free day for most people.

[@supertrooper6011]

or... it's off to the beach

[@cactusc9519]

gd that would be great

[@cactusc9519]

.... even if it's "off to the beach" sometimes for some people it still beats the election day routine now of trying to juggle trying to get time off work and then getting to the polling place and maybe back, etc.

[@dankflyingv6345]

As an anarchist, I feel there’s a very important point here. To us, representative democracy isn’t democracy. It’s oligarchy pretending to be democracy.

[@HeroLink18]

What is real democracy then?

[@dankflyingv6345]

HeroLink18 direct democracy or liquid democracy. But anything where any person or group of people has any measure of power over others, elected or otherwise, is not true democracy.

[@mimanda]

@@dankflyingv6345 so like... what the athenians had? I'm not trying to be a dick, a genuine question

[@dankflyingv6345]

mimanda I don’t really know that much about Athens so I can’t say for sure, but ig similar? I do know Athens was actually quite exclusionary in its voting eligibility though, so not quite like Athens.

[@TribuneAquila]

I heard somewhere (was it from olly?) That anarchy is just democracy taken seriously. In all democratic nations there still exists business. In most business it is set up as an oligarchy where lower employees and even management has little to no political power within the company, and are exploited for their labor with no say in how they are exploited, of course employees can always leave but generally those who gain political power in a company have to either grind their way to the top (most fail anyway), or are born into the priveledge. So by leaving your only other choice is to start again at the bottom. Or create your own business. We could say that this is then isolated to business and we still have political power as a citizen, but on the other hand these companies can inject mass amounts of capital into politics and money is political power currently. So how much power do these companies really have even though they cant vote? Is the ability for business to be structured non democratically affecting the ability for any democracy to exist, or even the ideals of democracy to exist? And how many institutions does this extend to? Schools? Communities? The military? Government? Family?

[@gryrabild]

When you said "spotty twink with a terrible haircut" I thought you were talking about Hbomb for a second I'M SORRY HARRY

[@ozlekosusturu]

same 😂

[@NimhLabs]

I mean... isn't that just how HBomb describes himself in most of his videos?

[@concentratedcringe]

i'Ll HaVe YoU kNoW i HaVe AlOt Of TeStOsTeRoNe. - Banana Boy

[@riley8385]

@@concentratedcringe I mean, he has the semi-bald head to prove it, lol.

[@DeadMarine1980]

I thought he was talking about Sargon.

[@kidilios44]

oh gosh i just realized youre wearing the same suit from your "why does britain still have a queen" video

[@Pfhorrest]

And the cosmonaut suit too.

[@alfied1750]

Looks like he went a few round of the ole "exercise your royal prerogative and **** me like the peasant that i am!" just before filming :-D

[@marekwygnany924]

Expanded universe, I tell you.

[@marshallboice4629]

That suit deserves a medal.

[@arcarsenal1380]

@@marshallboice4629 We have no need for primitive accolades :D

[@Ser_Salty]

"Well, I'm here anyway, I might as well do a Democracy" -Perikles upon returning to Athens

[@nerdywolverine8640]

Honestly, thank you so much for putting the subtext onscreen. I'm autistic and I missed all of it when I first watched the movie.

[@fallen_cookie]

Believe me: non autistic people missed it as well

[@sheepyhead0399]

Same, I'm autistic too and honestly I wish real life had those kind of sub-subtitles, or at least that everyone would communicate more directly.

[@Asgard314]

Weird coincidence aside, this is truly one of your best pieces in my opinion. Second only to The Cosmonaut. I had never really understood a lot of the Communist and Anarchist arguments you mentioned because every time it was mentioned in conversation or a class setting they just gloss over it. Now hearing them and the rationale behind them has me questioning the way we operate as a nation. Like, I want to go out and research myself, expose myself to new frameworks and ideas without accepting Democracy as a given in an effort to either bolster my own belief in it or find something I truly believe in more. Thank you, you've given me a lot to think about.

[@julefmapper6143]

The interest we give to people's passionate creations is truly more useful to us than the boredom of school, I agree. In plus, history and geography class in particular is pretty biased towards taking democracy as a given and rejecting the rest as "dictatorships" too, which is discouraging to learn anything political at school because you're skeptical of what is said, or know that you are learning misinformation. But keep in mind the path of the public education system, as it stands, is the only way for people in poorer backgrounds who would truly need to influence politics for the majority, to actually gain power. By gaining technical skills and climbing the tree of cynical ultra-liberal hierarchy. So the more informed people, with wishes of ethical politics, grind through school, getting over the misinformed junk that is taught to them, the more there is hope to change politics, especially in first world countries, to represent the people better...

[@piratelife6343]

As someone who used to run a communist group in his Youth so I must employ you anarcho communism is no f****** different than stalinist communism in reality in all practical senses because it is simply not humanly possible to run a quote Hi-Tech Village communists abundance post scarcity Society without a Central overriding authoritarian government running everything it can not work it is the idea of young men and women who are drunk on wonderful images in their heads but who don't have any life experience and those who are older and believe in it they are just f****** stupid

[@baykkus]

"You could get away with anything in 2016", but everything changed when the ContraPoints nation attacked.

[@NimhLabs]

... okay, now we are going to have a leftist KZbin who won't stop screaming about Honour...

[@bendym7001]

@@NimhLabs We have HBomb

[@gelatinouscube2342]

2016, the dawn of the a e s t h e t i c age

[@ThingsStuffington]

Praise Slaanesh! Praise Sobek!

[@Nimblewright1992]

I'm for compulsory voting. I'm also against compulsory commenting, but I guess this is the system now.

[@opheliabawles9646]

Fair enough. Then I guess l guess I'm doing my bit.

[@FoggyMcFogFace]

I strongly believe that compulsory commenting will improve the youtube comment section significantly

[@RedWurm]

I'm here to fulfill my civic duty

[@lorddashdonalddappington2653]

What is good about compulsory voting?

[@boptah7489]

@@lorddashdonalddappington2653 It underpins fascism and keeps the status quo.

[@Theroha]

What happened to sweet little boy? She grew up to be the trans princess of TERF Island. Amazing to watch Abby come into her own over the years

[@oslaskal8320]

Det är bra med mig och så att att du du är du inte har du något om att det var var du som att jag inte har någon gång jag är på väg till skolan och det var var inte att jag inte har du möjlighet att mötas upp och ner för mig så jag kan du är proddare och det var var så jag har en bänk och åka hem p

[@claritycloudsthemind6844]

In the first two minutes we get a disheveled British man with an unkempt mop of hair and very well trimmed facial hair playfully disparaging himself and then launching into a tirade of philosophy. I didn’t think kinks could get so specific and yet here we are.

[@z.kaminska130]

It's specific but lets be honest, who wouldn't smash it

[@Jessica-oz1yn]

caused me to watch The Arrival to avoid spoilers, was very good, thanks

[@RiveTheRat]

Jessica same here, didn’t know you needed to do your homework before watching a video on KZbin

[@aelurine]

same!

[@anthonywestbrook2155]

Same! And about half way through watching this, I was like "Wow. What a coincidence that I just watch Arrival. ... Oh... right."

[@XenaBe25]

Yes I enjoyed the film, too. But now I'm so late to the party it's prolly not even worth commenting on the vid. Olly's comments sections are getting so big I almost feel bad for making him read *even more...*

[@kristianj.8798]

It's definitely one of the more interesting alien-invasion movies, I think.

[@tobyw2u2348]

You're spoiling Arrival? Good thing I've watched it in the future!

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

I'm gonna just say this every time spoilers come up for as long as I live.

[@Akumasama]

I watched it, but then he spoiled it for me.

[@StrigidaeStrigiformes-sv6mj]

Fantastic movie. Unless you like perpetual conflict. Might I mention also that I loved Man of Steel, partly because of the destruction. Only... in real life... people do die when you value might.

[@GoErikTheRed]

I can't tell if that means you've seen it or not

[@PasCorrect]

Olly pronounced "Villeneuve" almost perfectly! Just needed to put the stress on the last syllable, as is the rule with all French words. He was a bit further from the mark with "Denis". The "De-" should sound more like a Metropolitan French "deux", and again, the stress should go on the last syllable. Everybody now: Deux-NEE Ville-NEUVE. Now say it more quickly. There you go! All set for Dune.

[@gravastar333]

"I wonder what happened to that sweet little boy". These days she's fuckn gorgeous and living life to the fullest kthxbye.

[@noahmcgaffey797]

I always forget they arent completely different people tbh

[@redpalex]

@@noahmcgaffey797 Really? I don't.

[@osakanone]

@@noahmcgaffey797 They do just feel like completely different people, don't they?

[@danielrhymes4593]

Trans people have a hard time voting too - I couldn't vote in the last election because I couldn't register because it's expensive to change my name with the government and everything I could provide to the council to prove my identity was in my preferred name. When I tried to sort it out, I found out they'd locked my national insurance files (which confused me because I thought they only did that for witness protection) and the election happened before I could get them unlocked.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Wow, I can't believe the election managers didn't foresee this being a problem and sort it out in advance.

[@danielrhymes4593]

@@Dorian_sapiens Unfortunately it's a pattern and if I were a more cynical man, I'd say it was on purpose. The rhetoric behind locking my file was for my own privacy, so others couldn't look me up and out me without my consent, but I'm not stealth. No one could hurt me by finding out my birth name or gender. I didn't ask for it and I'm the end all it did was cheat me out of a vote I very much wanted to cast.

[@conhaz9832]

I changed my name on the electoral roll quite recently online. Maybe it's gotten better since the vote? They did not even request deed poll proof.

[@comradegarrett1202]

I missed a special election in my state because I legally changed my name too close to the date of the election. I couldn't vote under my old name, because it was no longer my legal name, but I couldn't re-register because the re-registration deadline had passed. I was totally stuck.

[@danielrhymes4593]

@@conhaz9832 Yeah, I've tried that too within the past month. Though letting me declare I have other names, I still have a list of things I'm required to send them, none of which I actually have because I'm in a living situation where I can't provide bills because I don't directly pay them (I'm a sub-tenant and one in a living situation that is only one step away from homelessness), and I can't get hold of driving licences and passports for similar reasons as not being able to get on the register. All I can send them is my deed poll, my birth certificate and my bank statements, which my local council has deemed not enough evidence of my identity or living situation. I've tried, but my financial and living situations are all standing in the way. Oh, and to add icing to that shitty cake, my area is one of the ones in the trial trying to roll in voter ID.

[@yojelle1]

I think a large part of the problem with democracy are problems with education. Right now the educational system is mostly concerned with turning children into "productive members of society" (whatever that means) by teaching them "marketable skills". I think it should be more concerned with turning children into well rounded adults who can understand the world around them.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

But then how would the 1% rule the American Empire??? /sarcasm

[@dylanschmidt9056]

I thought a large part of the problem is both the center-right neo-conservatives and the center-left neo-liberals are out of touch financial elites who pursue an agenda of lowered corporate taxes, deregulation, privatization, and increased GDP with no concern for whether any of that growth benefits ordinary people, producing a system where all the wealth accumulates to the rich, wages are stagnant for decades, people feel betrayed by the centrists, and conspiracy theories and violent extremists fill the growing power vacuum left by the abandonment of the center. But it's a big problem, so it doubtless has many large parts.

[@michaelpattie9248]

I think the voting age should be lowered enough that every student has had the chance to vote at least once before they graduate. That voting wouldn't be some far off thing that they would care about in the future. And for good measure, put a polling station in every high school.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

British youtuber: **uploads video about British affairs** Me: Do you know what time it is in America?! Rude.

[@Sam-tf9ip]

Dorian sapiens It’s 1.55 where I’m at

[@downsjmmyjones101]

I work night shift and just went on break. I win I guess.

[@Allstarchickensuit]

man it's like 8am in the UK idk what he was thinking either

[@shiron222]

@@downsjmmyjones101 Same! I'm on one of my nights off!

[@whereisawesomeness]

This came out at half past six in the evening here in Australia, give us this one

[@elnonojedi]

this video is almost a year old, but i have to say this: at least here in Argentina, you have to vote, because you not only have rights as a citizen, you have responsabilities, and that's one of them. It's part of the social contract

[@Valeforer]

And also because (as it was explained to me at least) we have a pretty bad history of bosses, foremen, landlords, etc, making the lower classes unable to vote through coercion or by making them work on voting day.

[@aposterous4126]

Similar thing with Australia, just for slightly different reasons. You even get fined if you don’t register.

[@jacksonsmith2955]

of course the negative aspect of this is that a significant amount of the voter base doesn't actually care about the issues at hand and won't make informed decisions.

[@GynxShinx]

Too bad my signature was forged on that contract.

[@ohauss]

@@jacksonsmith2955 You are posting that as a "negative aspect" under a video on Brexit?

[@pansymoons9536]

I'm so glad you decided do include Arrival as a main part of this video. I read the short story a few years ago, and watched the movie recently. While I enjoyed both of them the first time I watched/read them, after looking back on the film I've realised just how beautiful it was. I enjoyed this reading that you made of it, as while I've seen some brilliant reviews, all of them seemed intent on not calling attention to the film's obvious political and social commentary. There is a quote from the author (Ted Chiang) of the short story Arrival is based on, where he says: "Science fiction is about using speculative scenarios as a lens to examine the human condition." To me, this quote demonstrates what I love so much about Arrival, and about other sci-fi movies such as Annihilation, it acknowledges what sci-fi is all about: people. And by extension to that: politics and human society. Also, I loved the costume of the burnt character from the Monarchy video, it was a good way of marking this video as a sort of continuation of monarchy one. (edit: forgot that outfit was actually from the monarchy video, ouch)

[@maduinargentus5878]

It's not the Arsonist, though, it's the costume from the Monarchy video.

[@KEvronista]

you should look into stanislaw lem. among the many philosophical issues he addresses, the impossibility of communication is a major theme in his writing. although communication isn't a main theme, his anthology, _the cyberiad,_ is a good place to start. oddly charming. KEvron

[@merrittanimation7721]

@@KEvronista Also in Solaris.

[@KEvronista]

yep. but, man! is that stuff dry. _arrival_ owes a lot to _solaris._ KEvron

[@pansymoons9536]

@@maduinargentus5878 wait, yeah! i've gotten my philosophytube universe characters muddled.

[@m0rthaus]

Just checking in from Australia where we have mandatory voting - anyone who cares about the political system and governence loves it. Here's some information about it. 1) We always hold elections on a Saturday, so people have a good chance of being off work. 2) We have multiple voting locations, usually multiples in each suburb - public schools and town halls are the most common locations. This means you almost never have to travel very far or wait very long. I believe the voting locations have several officials at each to oversee the process, but are mostly staffed by volunteers - so it's not an overbearingly expensive exercise. 3) ANYONE can opt-in an any upcoming election to send a postal vote for free (free postage) if you'll be out of the country or if you work Saturdays, or if you just really can't be arsed walking down to the local school to vote. 3) You must REGISTER to vote once you turn 17 (I think it only becomes active once you're 18, but you can register at 17), and if you are so totally determined to never vote and you hate the idea of democracy, then you can simply never register, with zero repercussions from the government. They will not hound you (your friends might, though). 4) If you have registered, you must vote every election (there's usually one every 2 years roughly, for state and for federal). If you don't want to vote for anyone you're welcome to drop a donkey vote and fill in your ballot paper with your finest impersonation of a David Thorne drawing and then fold it up and put it in the ballot box. 5) If you've registered but you don't vote in an election for whatever reason, you'll cop a fine, but it's pretty minor. Currently it's $55. Which is under 1/3 of the average daily wage post-tax. For comparison the lowest level speeding fine (5-9km/h over the posted limit) in my state (WA) is $100. An average parking fine for a local council is about $75. In short, it means high engagement of the voting populace (but not necessarily high epistemic virtues!), our standard voter turnout is around 95%. From what I've read and heard, I think our mandatory voting (with the above provisos) is a hell of a lot better than the optional voting situation in the US, where they often hold elections on a work day, postal voting seems to be rare, and a voter turnout of 60% would be a 30 year record high.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

When I moved to Australia first I was against it as I thought it better that the lazy apathetic and stupid should be absolved from the burden of voting leaving only those who were involved or interested enough to run the country, but now I've changed my mind. Compulsory voting evens everything out and makes it bland so extremes cannot win, this has saved us from the recent stupidity experienced in the USA and UK.

[@rgogstad]

Sounds awful. Forcing apathetic voters to the booth only encourage statism and weak political will. No wonder the Australian government has such a poor reputation internationally.

[@deansligh3759]

@@SirAntoniousBlock What recent stupidity, our (US) economy is the best its been in like 50 years.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@deansligh3759 I'm sure it is I wouldn't know, however we are not discussing that. The USA's political system is a mess, gerrymandering disenfranchisement subservience to funding from god knows where, and it has failed because it allowed someone like Trump to become president. Thats the stupidity I referred to.

[@deansligh3759]

@@SirAntoniousBlock He was voted in legally and in keeping to our customs. Hes done a good job, by nearly all metrics our country is doing better than Australia. We have problems certainly but I don't see how they're bad enough to call for demonizing our countries voting system. We might be changing our voting system a bit somewhat soon, and if it happens it will be through our Democratic system. Just because you don't like the President we chose doesn't mean its a flawed system. On top of that all indicators show that if people were forced to vote he still would have won because he took the swing vote.

[@coolstuffforboys]

i watched the first 5 minutes of this, then paused it and watched arrival. now i'm back to watch the rest. thank's

[@frocco7125]

You liked it?

[@userPrehistoricman]

Same. A couple pacing issues that were momentarily jarring and I'm still not sure if they were flashbacks, flashforwards, or both. Otherwise good and thought-provoking.

[@userPrehistoricman]

The passage of time wasn't always obvious. So in some cases, one scene later could be the next day, but it others it would be the next month. By the end of the film, I didn't understand the kind of time scale that everything took place in. I don't believe the characters often referenced time in their dialogue either. That said, I don't watch a lot of films and I usually can't tell if it's good or not. Personally, I don't feel the film is too relevant to the issue of immigration regarding Brexit. The film is focusing on a language barrier and (towards the end) the different perceptions of reality. What I see in talks about Brexit is more about culture.

[@userPrehistoricman]

I wasn't talking about flashbacks/flashforwards. I was talking about the passage of time in the real world, not in her mind. I understand the ambiguity of the flashbacks was intentional as you discover that she is seeing the future.

[@rushyscoper1651]

or you watched the rest of the video, then watched the first 5 minutes of it, then paused it and watched arrival

[@98Clank98]

“But because Scotland is still part of the UK… AT TIME OF RECORDING” Abigail said Indyref Rights ☺️

[@ThatRandomGirlAndrea]

Karl... Baby... we need to have a talk about B R A N D I N G

[@TweenkPL]

It is clear at this point that the vaporwave Marx-Engels Reader from ContraPoints' "The Left" video needs to become a real thing

[@SpoopySquid]

🅱️randing

[@mnaftw]

how is this a 2 day old comment on a 4h old video

[@Redyeti5]

They are fluent in Heptapod @@mnaftw

[@AlbertSirup]

cease the memes of production!

[@hypertails007]

I'm a 2nd generation brit, and my parents have lived in the UK for around 30 years. Despite having gone through university, paying their taxes, and speaking the language flawlessly, they cannot vote in general elections, and they were not allowed to vote for or against Brexit. Not long after I was born, they considered naturalisation as they already knew they were probably going to spend the rest of their lives there. However, that idea was thrown out of the window as it cost too much to go through the process. It would've been about ~£400 for each of them. Now it's almost £1300, but the cost to the Home Office of making someone naturalised has not changed since then. No matter how much they contribute to society, they will always be considered the 'other'. Theresa May further cemented this idea during her tenure as Home Secretary. " Under the British Nationality Act, she has the power to strip dual nationals and naturalised people of their citizenship if she believes it is “conducive to the public good.” " Between 2010 and 2016, she stripped 37 people of their British nationality, mostly under the grounds that they "could be" terrorists. Since she became Prime Minister, this number has only increased. In 2017 alone, 104 people were stripped of their citizenship on similar grounds - In fact, Shamima Begum was stripped of her nationality despite not even being a dual national, thus leaving her stateless. When the government starts to breach human rights like it already has been, who's going to stand up for those affected? The European Court of Justice? Of course not. At least, not anymore, that's for sure. My parents are just two of millions of people who are in a similar situation. They have no input in our so-called democracy - unless they fork over >£2500. And even then, they will always be alien. It only takes one decision to redefine whose nationality to strip for "the public good".

[@quaternaryyy]

OLLY IS BRANCHING OUT INTO FILM KZbin, i repeat THIS IS NOT A DRILL

[@hat-eating-cthulu-goat3221]

Get your campaign Get your fireworks Get your sacred texts And burn them because We now live in a perfect world so Who needs religion anymore?

[@Advent3546]

Contra Points' review of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert is only a matter of time now

[@IGameChangerI]

When will cinemasins branch out into philosophy youtube?

[@merrittanimation7721]

Lindsey Ellis should watch out.

[@Badartist888]

20:00 As an Australian who has cast a blank ballot (I was young and decided I only wanted to vote for someone I wanted, not just the least worst option like I do now) let me say that compulsory voting only forces you to vote if people can see your vote. Also that election came down to 100 votes in my electorate, the closest race I've ever been in, and was a good wake up call in my voting career.

[@Skittenmeow]

Hope you know about preferential voting! I'm amazed how many people in their 40s still don't understand it, and seem to think a third party or independent vote "wasted" or other nonsense. I remember being told in early 2000s that voting Green was a donkey vote which is a surreal misinformation campaign

[@misslenorelee6322]

its also hard to argue a democracy when over 70% of our news is controled by a very concertrated people who have a vested interest keeping certain power structures intact. I have been tricked into voting for people that did not represent my intrest because the only media I had acess to made mw believe they did.

[@KristovMars]

The really good thing about compulsory voting is that because of it, the AEC must provide safe and adequate opportunities for everyone to vote. One problem the Americans seem to have is insufficient polling places in certain areas, you can see how this could be used to manipulate outcomes for people of particular ethnicities or whatever. (AEC=Australian Electoral Commission for the non-Strayans) And although I don't have much faith in our democracy, the Democracy Sausage is a very fine tradition and a good consolation prize for having the choice between terrible and really terrible. Plus as stated, you don't have to vote, but you should.

[@--delirious--4136]

you forgot to draw a penis on your vote cards. missed opportunities.

[@hughie2910]

Now, what i am about to say has pretty much no relation to the video. It is merely a story. I was originally pretty far right, almost a nazi sympathizer. I then found HBomberGuy and he started that transition to the left. Then i watched badmouse and he kept it going. You and Contrapoints were the ones to finally make me realize where i had gone wrong. I thank you Olly for helping become better. Your videos have really helped me understand everything better.

[@sebastianioanpop3895]

I believe there's a difference between understanding everything better and changing your political view, I'm learning all I can about both sides since I don't want to be caught up in a position where I have to justify my political view without knowledge of the other, if you are unable to see things from both perspectives and understand their implications, with their advantages and disadvantages, short term and long term, you're not doing very well. Everything has a justification, every action taken by any man has some level of justification, whether it lies in their upbringing or within their social circles. They are not wrong, to some extent everything the Nazis did was justified from their perspective, we cannot see that perspective because ours has been shaped by the victors, and they were not the victors, our perspective paints them as pure evil, yet if you were to see hitler kiss a baby you'd be conflicted between feeling disgusted or thinking that's rather cute. Until a greater evil raises to power and loses this mentality will be furthered down to every generation, at one point a greater evil will rise that will either be similar or radically opposite, should that new evil win people will view our current mentality as wrong and twisted while praising their new knowledge, should they lose then this greater evil will overshadow the previous. Take a second and look at what is happening in North Korea, it is with little argument the most "evil" country in the present, however you'd be surprised that many natives of the country will not agree with you because of what their version of history taught them. You may be inclined to say that they learned a wrong history and it was all propaganda to incite hate for the western civilisations, however the reason you're saying that is because you learned your version of history from somewhere, you didn't get to live in that period yourself. So were you wrong in what you were thinking before watching this video? Are you wrong now? Will you later on find a better made video with better arguments to convince you of the opposite and shift your views again? Ultimately it does not matter, we are spectators to this show of power and for as long as we're watching they will keep playing, however we don't have anything better to watch so enjoy your show, you paid for the ticket after all

[@wug6175]

I would recomend you to watch "anarchopac"'s videos, they might be interesting to you.

[@gtjus]

@@sebastianioanpop3895 Talking about meta ethics doesn't make you informed nor does it make your political position enlightened. Take a stance when you know what is right and sit on the fence when you don't, don't act all high and mighty.

[@sebastianioanpop3895]

@@gtjus how do you know it's right?

[@jackyback2578]

@@sebastianioanpop3895 The issue i have with your comment is that you suggest that because other people believe something, it makes it true and that others should believe it, when this of course isn't the case all of the time (like, for example the misinformation of the brexit referendum). Instead, people should be given the tools to make up their own mind, some of which is being informed and having perspective and experience with these issues. People used to (and still do) think that the Earth was flat, but through being informed by experts and scientists who have done scientific experiments this is no longer the case. What I suppose I'm getting at is not learning what to think, but how to think. Just because certain people believed bad things in the past, doesn't mean we can learn from others.

[@DHRbarnett]

"You could get away with anything in 2016" - I think you mean you could get away with anything before Contra changed Breadtube

[@riley8385]

Why is it called Breadtube, tho?

[@Zealot1290]

"Bread and roses". "Bread and land". And as mentioned by someone else, the book "The Conquest of Bread". Members of the proletariat calling out for bread so that they don't starve has long been a part of leftist action.

[@dillonv5345]

some say Breadtube, some say Redtube....wait......yeah let's stick with Breadtube

[@raventrunite6459]

and we are eternally grateful for the spells cast by our dark mother

[@r0gamer94]

breadtube sounds like it has a good mouthfeel @@MoonMoon-ht5ge

[@concessioncard]

“ oliver thorn presents: heavy breathing “ captions are good all of the time

[@lerualnaej5917]

I forgot to watch with captions. Silly me, now I have to watch it again.

[@TheAsyouwysh]

And all of the time captions are good

[@concessioncard]

Kevin Torres yes! i have hearing problems, so i really appreciate the quality of the captions on this channel.

[@the_REAL_Pearl_]

The bit about British colonizers and the aboriginal people reminded me of this bit from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series: "The forest of Skund was indeed enchanted, which was nothing unusual on the Disc, and was also the only forest in the whole universe to be called -- in the local language -- Your Finger You Fool, which was the literal meaning of the word Skund. The reason for this is regrettably all too common. When the first explorers from the warm lands around the Circle Sea travelled into the chilly hinterland they filled in the blank spaces on their maps by grabbing the nearest native, pointing at some distant landmark, speaking very clearly in a loud voice, and writing down whatever the bemused man told them. Thus were immortalised in generations of atlases such geographical oddities as Just A Mountain, I Don't Know, What? and, of course, Your Finger You Fool. Rainclouds clustered around the bald heights of Mt. Oolskunrahod ('Who is this Fool who does Not Know what a Mountain is') and the Luggage settled itself more comfortably under a dripping tree, which tried unsuccessfully to strike up a conversation." Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic

[@pexobestia]

Yucatán being the real life example (meaning "I don't understand you")

[@eddiebrooks1334]

"Karl.. baby.. we nEED to have a talk about brAnding" is my new aesthetic

[@natedobson8957]

I really hope this is a sign of Olly and Natalie hanging out more and the influence spreading.

[@2nd3rd1st]

Doesn't that just remind you of that scene in Die Hard.

[@connorgleeson9324]

Hey what’s up. I heard someone say my name

[@eddiebrooks1334]

@@connorgleeson9324 oh my god I can't believe it's actually Karl Marx! Hope you like what we've done with the place... it's a bit warmer than you'll remember, I'm sure...

[@majoapaolaza7122]

As I'm from a Latin American country with compulsorily voting I feel compelled to comment about why this was implemented in my country (Argentina) in 1912. Before 1912 the voting system in Argentina was "voto cantado" or verbal voting, illiteracy was an issue in 1853, when the first voting law came into effect. If you wanted to participate in an election you had to go to your local electoral judge and declare outloud and in public who you were voting for. This led to a lot of violence, and political parties hired people to threaten and harm anyone who voted against them. The leading party (conservative party) of the time divided over the idea of a reformation of the vote. In 1912 illetaracy was almost non existent, so it couldn't be used as an excuse to uphold an easily corruptible system, but those in power who oppose a reformation did so because they thought people as incapable of being an inform voter. Eventually the half of the conservative party in favor of a reformation allied with the socialist party and the radical civic union party and made way to a new reform. This new law stated that voting should be secret (so that people couldn't be harm for who they chose), universal (as to not discriminate by race, tho it didn't include women til the 30s), and compulsory, so that you couldn't be dissuaded by force to not vote. It worked great! And in the next elections the conservative party lost for the first time, and never could win an election again (so they financiated and orchestrated several coups, but that's a story for another time)

[@paulaserrano9018]

Clearly the media have proven to be a much more effective way of having people vote against their own interests than any individual goons trying to intimidate individuals...

[@rollypolly8515]

"...so they financiated and orchestrated several coups..." That's some food for thought! Democracy working too well? Just stop playing along 😑

[@paulaserrano9018]

@@rollypolly8515 Six times over a 46-year period. Pretty sore losers, I'd say.

[@paulaserrano9018]

@Angel Fox He was an official for the 1943-1945 de facto government, then was democratically elected president in 1946 and reelected in 1951. He was deposed through a coup in 1955. Mandatory, "universal", secret voting was implemented in 1912. It actually became universal in 1947, when women got the right to vote, too. What was your question, exactly?

[@roccofregoti8061]

Angel Fox Peron would come into the game in the thirties. He started as the ideologue of a natiolist wing of the army who took a lot of inspiration in Mussolinni and FDR. This group, the GOU, staged a coup in the 1943 and Peron entered the goverment as the Secretary of Work, a minor charge. From there he started making Labour related laws. He started to slowly grow in popularity, going from secretary to War Minister and finally, Vice President. But he won the hate from the Capitalist Classes of Argentina (SRA, the owners of the fields because of the 'Estatuto del Peón', and the UIA, the industrial class), so he was thrown into prison in the isle Martin Garcia. In a weird turn of events, in the 17th of february of 1945 the working class of Argentina went down to strike to demand his liberation, leaded by Peron's couple Maria Eva Duarte, more known as Eva Peron. This day is known in Argentina as Loyalty Day or 'Día de la Lealtad', as it shown of the proletarians of Argentina sided with Peron. Elections were called and the right wing conservatives, communists, socialists and radicals unify in oposition to Peron, who runed in a little party called the Labour Party or 'Partido Laborista'. He won.

[@tommagennis]

Did you just call Harris a gamer? To his internet face?

[@PhilosophyTube]

The Scottish Parliament officially called him an Online Gamer haha, he's stuck with it now

[@tommagennis]

@@PhilosophyTube If the Scottish Parliament jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?

[@cognitivedissonance8406]

@@tommagennis What do you mean, if?

[@gigangreg7837]

@@PhilosophyTube gamers rise up

[@SSj5Bob]

God bless HBomberguy, he finally rose up against the society that is a society that we live in a society.

[@AutumnEpilogue]

I listen to these at work sometimes so I have something to focus on outside of the banalities, and I had to really pause and take something in. "Whatever happened to that sweet little boy?" hits so DIFFERENT now. You're amazing.

[@ParanoidFactoid]

How come Teresa May gets to submit her plan for vote in Parliament again and again, running out the clock on Brexit, while simultaneously any time someone calls for a second referendum vote it's challenged by those who want to leave on the grounds that voting again subverts democracy!?!?!

[@eddiebrooks1334]

Because... um... well, you know... democracy?

[@ArgoIo]

Problem is, that a second referendum would take at least 20 weeks (5 months) to get through parliament and another couple ones to carry out. Even if it had been scheduled for march of this year, the entire motion would have had started in october. But at that point, there wasn't even a draft of the deal ready for publication. The UK government really ran themselves into a corner they can't get out now.

[@Valosken]

Because it is at least a (slightly...) different plan each time.

[@arcarsenal1380]

The damage is already done...

[@perspii2808]

Paranoid Factoid Because a second referendum would be going against the original vote. And besides, Theresa is quite sly, and nobody in a high position seems to be even acknowledging or addressing that she’s literally just running down the clock

[@zoopennington]

I am deeply grateful that Oliver Thorn is alive

[@DanyIsDeadChannel313]

The only lefty I have faith

[@oogabooga7897]

casual complaints if you do not like the man, please don’t share that opinion in a group that idolises him. No offence though. Just a bit of advice.

[@kalebmark2908]

I am so thankful for him every single day.

[@zebjwest6709]

for now

[@heavypupper1219]

*A T T H E T I M E O F R E C O R D I N G*

[@Mercure250]

*bagpipe*

[@franlaris8553]

Heavy Pupper FREEDOM

[@fh404]

Brexit in a nutshell

[@IkomaTanomori]

"Turn off all the lights and pretend that we're not in" - then, a joke. Now, in 2020, with everyone hiding in their homes: ...

[@xw591]

Oof

[@EidolonSpecus]

People were staying home, not "hiding".

[@annieinwonderland]

@@EidolonSpecus 15.14 Panic buying.. at least this happened in Australia

[@mochild7779]

Now in 2022 when no one can afford to turn the lights on anymore: ...

[@MajorLeagueBassboost]

Democracy is when the people do things and the more things they do the democraticer it is.

[@MrKoalaburger]

78 upvotes - 0 downvotes = this is true

[@mollistuff]

@@MrKoalaburger Downvotes are not actually displayed/factored in anywhere on KZbin comments.. or in most elections for that matter.

[@donov25]

@@MrKoalaburger downvotes were removed from youtube years ago, but they left the thumb for it. Still mad about it honestly.

[@usegnu1485]

I'm pretty sure down votes do change what order the "OP" comments show up. Down votes on replies don't do any thing because if you changed the order of replies it would be pretty incoherent. I know this because I watch vids with very few comments and when I down vote a comment it moves down the list. I'm sure there are other factors like how many comments it has but down voting does go into it.

[@MajorLeagueBassboost]

@Carlos Saraiva (because it's a meme format that calls for such a grammatical mistake)

[@OninRuns]

What is Democracy? Not a two-party system. That's for sure.

[@BiscuitAWitch]

What is a man? *A miserable little pile of secrets.*

[@seltzerpolicedroid6666]

✋ high five

[@nohbuddy1]

@@BiscuitAWitch Featherless biped

[@ronlynquist9183]

A no party system.

[@loonachan]

How many parties do you need to make a Democracy? 5? 10? 20? 100? We can probably all agree that no political party can represent every possible viewpoint, there's always going to be compromise on an individual level. I may mostly agree with this party more than I mostly agree with other parties. Even in a hypothetical country which has representatives perfectly reflective of their people, the government still would have to govern by coalition, which in effect backsteps into two sides- the coalition and the opposition. While this is preferable to a pure binary choice, if I support a smaller party in a coalition, how much real power do I have? The largest party in any coalition is usually the one with the most pull, and decides the direction, and your smaller party is either forced to compromise with them or leave and give up any sway they might have had. People complain about Democrats and Republicans in the US, but in both parties there are a wide range of views of positions, essentially acting as coalitions in themselves, but just dispensing with the formality of having many parties comprising them. It's because of this that the parties feel so ambiguous, lefties say the Democrats are a bunch of neoliberal corporate shills because of establishment figures, while righties can claim they're all a bunch of pink socialist commies because of that vocal wing of the party. Splitting them up into separate parties might make things less ambiguous, but it wouldn't change the righties shitting on the Dems for allying with socialists, or vice versa. Or even worse, the socialists can refuse to ally with the Dems against an increasingly fascist Republican party (essentially how Hitler himself came to power). The Tory and Labour parties can also be sliced up into many different factions, something Brexit has really highlighted, despite there being more variety of choices there.

[@riku213]

This is a blank protest comment I leave, because it was compulsory.

[@yiwuei]

Compulsory voting is good if at the same time we recognize blank vote as well (as people may not be happy with the choices given)

[@ilicythings]

in Australia a lot of people will invalidate their ballot by drawing dicks on it and not actually numbering a box, so you don't need to vote for someone you dislike :D

[@save_bandit]

@@ilicythings man i love australians

[@FredyeahEternal]

Funny about the kangaroo's story, here in Mexico there's a pretty important and historical site called Yucatan, the bottom left boot of the golf of Mexico, heart of the Mayan territory and gate way to the heart of the country, the so called Hernan Cortes Route that the americans used to get to Ciduad de Mexico back in the Mexican-american war, Funny enough, the story goes that when the conquistadors arrived and asked the natives with hand signs what the place was called they heard stuff that sounded like Ma'anaatik ka t'ann (i dont understand you), Ci u t'ann (i dont understand), but now the accepted name for the region means "Im not from here".

[@Tordre]

Here in Canada we use to have there heritage minutes that appeared on TV, where the name canada (kanata) was given when asked what this place was called? it was just the word for village.

[@razorednight]

So there are kangaroos in Mexico? Coool...

[@razorednight]

@@Tordre When I was a child, I read somewhere that "Canada" meant "nothing there" in some Native American language. I believed that story for years...

[@Virjunior01]

Both hilarious and infuriatingly sad.

[@bruhfvdf3145]

Asteroid

[@jordansullivan5764]

6:30 I gotta point out that the astrophysicist was also trying to communicate with them, and a binary sequence, for instance, is not a math problem. They wanted a quippy line to shut down the math dude, but seeing if they respond to mathematical sequences is pretty widely accepted as a litmus test to see if aliens are intelligent. Sorry to be that nerd, but that line was the one part of this movie that I didn't love XD

[@timothymclean]

Though considering the wide variety of mathematical systems that have been invented and refined across human history, we risk running into a smaller but more abstract translation issue.

[@timothymclean]

@@jjsainto It's worth noting that while math may be universal, how we understand it probably isn't. Look at how many cultures did fine without a mathematical expression of zero if you don't believe me. Spacefaring civilizations probably need that, but that doesn't mean they'd recognize the Pythagorean Theorem without spending time learning what exponents were (and wondering why we have a specific term for that, but such a clunky representation of something they put on the same level as arithmetic). Or maybe we're wrong and there are multiple ways to construct a mathematical system that you can get useful physics out of.

[@DarkHunter047]

@@jjsainto Complementing what Timothy McLean said, the heptapods as beings who appear to come from a world without much light and completely different from ours i would imagine that their undertanding of math is wholy different from ours. Maybe to them Fourier Analysis is something as trivial as 1 + 1= 2 and 1 + 1= 2 to them is as hard as Calculus is to us.

[@hayk3000]

Later on in the movie the Americans actually say that the aliens can't understand their algebra, but do understand more complex maths.

[@nicholasgraham4402]

@@DarkHunter047 I understand where you're coming from, but it seems unlikely that they would be able to do effective space travel without something comparable to a computer, which would mean they probably understand binary, or at least the idea of different bases if they managed to invent computers that calculate in higher bases.

[@RiveTheRat]

“I am going to spoil the ending of Arrival” Guess I’m watching Arrival now before going back here.

[@AzaleaJane]

Worth it

[@lerualnaej5917]

Let us know what you thought!

[@justinlacek1481]

I literally just did that. Stopped in the middle of the video, watched arrival, then started the video back up

[@johper3779]

@@justinlacek1481 Yeah me too

[@FulcanMal]

Same. Went to watch this video, stopped to go watch Arrival, then was SO FREAKING glad I stopped before this video could spoil the ending. What a great movie!

[@cityraildude]

One thing you forgot to mention with democracy is marginal seats vs safe seats. I live in Australia and I live in a very safe seat. My seat is an extremely safe seat, so my vote is worth almost nothing as almost everyone else votes the same way. I wish I lived in my auntie's seat, which is extremely marginal, because her vote actually counts because people change their votes. Also, her seat actually gets allocation of resources due to the fact that they're marginal. You forgot to mention this

[@AP-ds9pj]

I am Peruvian and voting is mandatory in my country. I don't think it works because: 1. People who don't vote are fined. The fines are pretty significant for anyone living in poverty. It's not like anyone will be imprisoned for not paying these fines, but they do show up and make other processes and paperwork more difficult later, or even prohibit people from participating in other processes. 2. Even if election day (it's only one day) is a holiday, people still would rather work than go vote. And the fines are more expensive than what they would probably earn in a day. Basically people just find exercising democracy tedious, annoying and useless. 3. Since people HAVE to vote and they live in poverty and lack of opportunities and information, their votes are easily swayed. It is, in the end, an exercise in popularity as you say, rather than representation. People vote for whoever they can remember when they reach the ballot. And often what happens is that populist parties spend their drug trafficking money in cheap gifts and shit and turn people into walking propaganda. Of course if you're pressed to vote, you're gonna vote for the person who gave you a t-shirt and your neighbour is going to vote for the person they saw in your t-shirt. People can be easily convinced by catchy though empty promises as well. 4. There isn't enough access to information or general knowledge to vote. Governance plans are usually found online (if parties bother to make them public at all) and in Spanish, while very few people have access to the internet and a lot of people do not speak Spanish, or know how to read. This just further means that people can be tricked and manipulated into voting one way or another. 5. Peru is heavily centralised in the capital city, but there are so many different cultures and ethnic groups and just general intersectionality that we can't really say a mandatory vote means equal say or representation. Politicians do not represent everyone and they do not cater to everyone when carrying out their campaigns. Some people are so far removed from this centralised system they aren't even registered in it, they don't have IDs or pay taxes. People live in the Peruvian territory and are affected by the ruling classes without being part of the system. 6. Politics has been shit and people do not trust the governance systems. All of our presidents for the past 30 years have had some kind of legal process from corruption up to human rights violations, one is in jail but many others probably should be. It is dire out here. Voters do not trust the government and there is this terrible and pervasive idea that "everyone is shit, everyone is going to steal and therefore it doesn't matter how we vote or what we do". So people vote because they are pressed to do so and not because they believe in democracy or representation. Democracy means nothing here. People don't understand the governance systems and don't trust these systems to bring them any kind of representation or any kind of benefits. Does mandatory voting bring us closer to democracy? Idk man, I don't think so, it's a tough one. This is a long comment, as well. Lmk if you actually read it.

[@notinorder9630]

Read it, and honestly that sounds terrifying. It seems like the saying "democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for dinner" but in this case it seems like there are a few herbivores and hundreds of carnivores. Good luck to you and your country for the future.

[@taj4137]

Read it, and now I'm depressed.. hope it gets better with the corruption problems.

[@technocrat9000]

The question is, if you had optional voting, do you think any of those problems would improve?

[@elerillewellyn2654]

Do you think though that some of these problems are more to do with other social problems than mandatory voting itself? Like the illiteracy issue you talk about for example, I don't know how large a problem that is in your country but surely that has more to do with children's access to education and the school system than mandatory voting itself?

[@AP-ds9pj]

technocrat9000 I think that at least people wouldn’t be fined and they’d be able to work for the day. It may cause more disinterest in politics, but parties will have to find ways to get people into the ballots. Will they do that through more stupid gifts? Hmm probably, though a law was passed recently which prohibits campaign spending on gifts for people up to certain amount. I know most of our problems with democracy come from other social and economic issues, but that is politics as well.

[@Madhattersinjeans]

This was a pretty good video but I do have one issue with it. You address democracy as if there is only 1 variant of voting, ie First past the post (FPP). In Scotland we use STV or Single transferable vote. Where you rank each of the politicians you vote for on election day. Which helps give minority groups a chance to be represented and it doesn't trigger the kind of two-party trench warfare you get in Westminster and the USA. CGP grey does an excellent video series on some of the different types of voting systems available currently. I bring this up because some of the issues you've highlighted are partly due to the type of voting system which is being used and a country that uses FPP that would in theory require mandatory voting could have a catastrophic effect of making polarised political parties even more polarised.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

And this is why Scotland is just the best. -signed a Texan who hates first past the post voting system.

[@BaldingClamydia]

Is it going to pop up if I search cgp grey? I knew there were types of voting but not much more than that.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

@@BaldingClamydia I believe cgpgrey has covered single transferable vote. Might take a little searching but yea it should come up.

[@cocktailonion696]

Australia has a similar system.

[@lovelyyecats]

Yes, I was just thinking about this, especially as Olly talked about "ranking" your stake in certain issues. STV makes it easier to vote for candidates who prioritize certain issue areas, while also making sure that even if that candidate doesn't win, your vote, no matter what, goes to the party or ideology that you align with.

[@TheAnimeguy44]

this made me want to watch arrival

[@andreasnorli5291]

You should! It's pretty good. Granted, since I love linguistics I MAY be biased, but hey...

[@BenjaminAdebowale]

How was your comment made 2 days ago, when this video came out an hour ago 🤔

[@aidansmith22]

Benjamin Adebowale The video gets released early for patreon, so it was prob just private until now

[@MatthewLowery]

I fucking hated that film. The first half of it is 9/10, the second half is 1/10. I don't want to spoil anything, but basically it does a historically dreadful job of understanding the philosophy and science of time and language. A lot of the last section of the film is excruciatingly bad.

[@wokencs330]

@@MatthewLowery you are entitled to your opinion and you are completely fucking wrong my dude Whole film was 10/10 intelligent scifi with legitimate emotional depth

[@Gildedmuse]

As a Lit major, Abbie, I really felt your excitement over remembering numbers.

[@sovieToilet]

We have a nice democracy in Russia - everyone can vote. It’s a nice and cozy choice of one candidate, our government provided us with.

[@saoirsecameron]

Here in the US of A our democracy is so much better. I would even say 100% better. It’s a nice cozy choice of 2 candidates which our government has provided us with.

[@vaylonkenadell]

@@saoirsecameron And one of them is provided by Russia.

[@Feasco]

One man, one vote There is one man and he has the vote

[@adriandavies8097]

Thats nice of them :)

[@5ynthesizerpatel]

One man one vote - and that man just happens to be Vladimir Putin - (edit) shit someone beat me to it!

[@BandEater]

The names Cop Copson, how do you do fellow comrade

[@Sternmann]

Hey Copson, I'm Paul Lees. Wanna help me do a socialism on the top of this car park?

[@AzaleaJane]

Aye comrade! I think some crimes are a capital idea. Here, you go do the thing and I'll cover you.

[@insufferableluke6096]

Pool Eece McCoperson. How 'bout we anarchy all over the nearby suburbs?

[@TheDrLeviathan]

By j Edgar Hoover's ghost, what a great idea!

[@TheDoctor423]

It's been a hard road during which I've been lied to, cheated on, and worse... but I think I've finally overcome my trust issues and am finally open for a new relationship in my life! Any takers?

[@MohiFa]

my face when we won't see the said twink with a terrible haircut, with no costumes, and no colored lights. I blame Natalie for this

[@TapKim]

Nat the *I N F L U E N C E R*

[@marcferguson3325]

@@TapKim m o u t h f e e l

[@josephabouharb1030]

turned him to a chad. :o

[@TapKim]

@@josephabouharb1030 Natalie has that effect

[@rawhamburgerjoe]

mmmmmhmmmmm

[@user-gt2bn5el2f]

OMG> Young Ms. Thorn vs. older Ms. Thorn is like "Soft Femme High School Crush v.s. Distinguished High Femme Madame"

[@Gooberpatrol66]

>Sugar Daddy disgusting

[@lich.possum]

@@Gooberpatrol66 stevia daddy

[@katara2021]

@@lich.possum Underrated. Died laughing. Thanks

[@sorcellerie]

I love that it's actually so true

[@ishanshah7521]

Not quite, anymore..

[@sufferedsage]

"Speaking of radical critiques, what if we look at democracy through an anarchist frame?" Gimme that sweet sweet autonomy, baybee.

[@renoodle5554]

Olly, I just wanna say this: four years ago, when I started university, I would watch your videos to help me study for my philosophy exams/prep for essays. While those videos were incredibly helpful, informative, and entertaining, I am so proud of and delighted by how you and your channel have grown. These more recent videos have been absolutely phenomenal, I especially like the one you put up about su!c!de and mental illness (it makes me feel a little bit more seen on my darker days, lol), and I am beyond excited to see what else you put out in the future. I don't have notifications on for many, but you deserve it! When I finally have a disposable income I cannot wait to donate to your patreon. (not to detract from the previous comments, but it must be said: the tousled hair and burned suit? the bloodstained shirt? WHAT a look)

[@EmmaDancesNever]

I love how you tightened your tie when you said "Status can be maintained even in the face of disaster." Not sure if it was intentional but it seems like the tie was a metaphor, since you were tightening it even though it was all torn up.

[@davidkestler6242]

Spoilers, it was intentional

[@DiaJasin]

Metaphorical subtrates

[@Valeforer]

Regarding compulsory voting, here in Argentina the reason that is mostly talked about is one that I think you didn't cover: It is so bosses can't force their employees to stay at the workplace on voting day and, as such, prevent people from voting against their favourite candidate. Replace "bosses" also with family members, or government officials/ONGs, etc. It is not so much about intimidation as to literally preventing them to go vote. The fine for not voting is ridiculously low, but you have to pay it yourself, iirc. And, as you said, we are not forced to actually vote for someone, we can just go to the "cuarto oscuro" (dark room), walk straight out and deposit an empty envelope on the urns. "Voto cantado" (sung vote) is also completely prohibited: You can't mention who are you voting for, wear tshirt/pins of political parties, or insinuate anything about your voting preferences within the walls of the voting place, you get a fine AND your vote gets invalidated. Also political campaigns are completely prohibited (as in you have to manually take out your own advertisments) on the last few days before elections.

[@yvonnehorde1097]

In Germany, when you get your invitation for your vote, you get an allowance to change it to a vote via mail. No employer is able to take your vote way like that.

[@PavarottiAardvark]

If we're going to do compulsary voting, then there needs to be two things on the ballot. One is simply a line saying "you may leave this ballot blank". The other is an option saying "I do not have faith in any of these candidates" or some other way to withhold consent. This gives a way to object to the candidates....but sadly not the system itself.

[@RationalAndFree]

I would still be forced to have to participate in a system which I argue is illegitimate in the first place. The problem isnt what choices that are put on the ballot, the problem is that one is forced to choose within the modes which others prescribe. You may want to watch the section where Ollie talks about the anarchist perspective a few times more as your still running from the assumption that everyone supports representative democracy.

[@Sam-th4jl]

i think the second option is better, as it gives a way for people to voice dissent, and for it to be measured, and critically, without anyone knowing who is dissenting. even better if a certain level of dissent required the election to be redone

[@ultrapwner]

@@RationalAndFree You have to participate in the system either way by living in and being ruled by the leaders of a country that practices it.

[@paratrooper6]

People usually do those things by drawing penises on the ballot

[@sebkewley930]

In the student body elections, there is always an option for RON - Re Open Nominations. It means that you hate all the candidates and you want there to be a second election with different options. Might be something to think about if compulsory voting becomes a thing.

[@PhyllisMasters]

"Just because you look like the Philosophy Tube host..." I died.

[@sams3533]

Since I HAVE to: I think compulsory voting is a fair trade off for the process of democracy. Just as you HAVE to go to jury duty in order to uphold the constitutional right of "a trial by your peers" in order to guarantee "by the people for the people" you need compulsory voting

[@BaldingClamydia]

The more I learn about the American court system, the less I think the whole "jury of your peers" thing is working out.

[@katherinemorelle7115]

To give an Aussie perspective on compulsory voting, we don’t just see voting as a right or a privilege- we do indeed see it as a civic duty, just like jury duty, or taxes, or obeying the laws. It’s not only a right, it’s a responsibility. And it makes sense to think of it this way- you can’t have a society based only on freedoms and no duties. You can’t have rights with no responsibilities. It’s something I remind my 12yo of often. Everyone needs to pitch in to keep society afloat. (Unfortunately, it seems our government is more than happy to let rich arseholes and big business have the freedoms but not the duties, the neoliberal weenies)

[@cocktailonion696]

Excellent point.

[@katherinemorelle7115]

Cassandra Pentaghast if you can’t vote due to illness- mental or otherwise, you can be excused from voting. You can either be excused prior to the election, or you can explain to them afterward why you didn’t vote. They’ll then waive the fine (which is fairly small- I think it’s about $50, which is less than three hours pay at minimum wage). Even just spraining an ankle is a good enough excuse for the Australian Electoral Commission. So it’s not an issue here at all.

[@skepticmoderate5790]

@@BaldingClamydia It's WAY better than the alternatives.

[@Allencorgan4951]

Watching this in June 2020. So glad you stayed with us. You enrich my life no end. Thank you ollie.

[@SabinaRoundHill]

In Australia we have mandatory voting but if you are morally opposed to voting you can decline to vote. When you don’t turn up to the polls you get sent an exsplinstion card that you can reply back with a reason as to why you didn’t vote. And not have to pay the fine. The really good thing about composers voting is if you work on Election Day your employer has to pay for you to go vote. Also it creates a culture of voting where people believe it’s important.

[@michaelhird432]

don't forget the democracy sausages

[@nerd_nato564]

@@michaelhird432 That's the best part of democracy.

[@Erika-gn1tv]

I'm kinda disturbed that some countries don't allow prisoners to vote. It feels ripe for abuse.

[@WarMomPT]

Same. Prisoners are wards of the state. If anybody has a stake in what the state does, they sure as hell do, and not Maureen who has more than enough to get by and spends all her time harassing trans people on twitter.

[@jnjsparrow]

Right? It's almost like those in power could enact laws that heavily target specific communities that have a history of voting for opposing political parties in order to increase their chances of staying in power.

[@Whosaskin]

There are also some countries where the FORMERLY incarcerated can't vote.

[@travcollier]

@@jnjsparrow I think you meant to say "The Right" instead of "Right?" ;) Seriously though, do most people not know anything about post-Reconstruction US history? This sort of stuff is such well trodden ground.

[@basilmemories]

it's a big problem in the US. the police (and the populace at large) have a belief that black and brown people are more likely to do crime, thus they're more actively targeted, THUS they go to prison more often. Once they come out they've still lost the vote, so this cradle to prison pipeline works to systematically disenfranchise large numbers of nonwhite communities. This means that already vulnerable populations have fewer chances to vote for people or changes that can reform the deeply racist systems in America. And when you mention this in public discourse, one fuckhead always has the be the asshole who pops up and says "BUT BLUE LIVES MATTER TOO!" Not the point Clive, not the point.

[@gelatinouscube2342]

Arrival was honestly such an underrated film and it's great you're using it as a framework

[@gelatinouscube2342]

@GiRayne it was widely ignored outside of the Sci-Fi bubble and it never got a cult following, unlike arguably worse sci-fi movies like Gravity for example.

[@dshepherd107]

I really really enjoy your podcast. Discovered you recently. Thx a lot from an American near twice your age. I am never bored listening to your videos. And I wish you all the best as your relatively new self 🌈 & was delighted to hear how much happier you are. It made me quite sad when I listened to the video of you explaining how very unhappy you’ve been. I started a/ your most recent podcast & went backwards. Imagine my surprise 😁. You’re quite an impressive, kind person. Be well, & please continue your videos. I’m learning quite a lot!

[@Marxism_Today]

Hell yeah. I've been looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this, Olly. Solidarity from Ireland

[@bubbleboy2590]

Irish Solidarity lads!

[@LT-zg9tz]

Sinne fianne fáil...

[@WarMomPT]

[Sound of Connolly rolling in his grave]

[@MrGustaphe]

Me: "42 minutes, that's a reasonable amount of video to watch" Philosophy Tube: *inserts entire feature length movie* Me: "Oh well, time to put on my watching pants"

[@MrGustaphe]

The copy of Arrival that I found in my friend's book shelf didn't caption the "In 3000 years we'll need help" conversation. That part makes way more sense now.

[@natashapillai5369]

I loved Arrival but always thought it was very strange that the Chinese and Russian teams are consistently painted as overly belligerent and warlike when, by the time it hit theaters, we Americans had elected a president practically made of jingoism and McDonalds pink slime. I've just checked, because the author himself is of Chinese descent, and that global war plot was added in the movie. Every time this movie comes up, I throw out the idea that this movie about communication actually is driven by a pretty Orientalist clash of culture narrative. Maybe it's easier for white, Western audiences to empathize with literal aliens than with people not of the "enlightened West".

[@siginotmylastname3969]

Mostly this film/book, which I haven't seen/read, reminds me of a book called Jem by Frederick Pohl. His book was about a humanity divided into three essentially nations, on the verge of nuclear war, which each send would be colonisers to an alien planet which itself has three coexisting sentient species. The point where it differs is that the humans from each nation can neither get along with each other, nor avoid provoking conflict between the alien species as a result, and it has a depressing end. Which essentially means it is pessimistic about cultural differences aside from the orientalist clash of culture you mentioned, but that sort of defeated plotline is not something you can specifically call left wing either.

[@dm9910]

Well, for one thing, the Americans were often warlike, with Banks constantly having to talk them down from interpreting everything as aggressive, and later some rogue soldiers bombing the alien ship. Without setting the story in a different place, it's quite hard to have the Americans be the most warlike and uncooperative party given that these are the characters we're interacting with mostly. Also, Banks reaching out to the Chinese was a major plot point and fits the themes of communicating with people who are different to you, it wouldn't have had the same impact if Banks just had to convince an American general not to strike first.

[@oppie2363]

Give the Ted Chiang story a read -- it's worth it, even if you've seen the movie.

[@무군]

Pretty cheeky of American government officials to accuse Chinese workers of stealing their jobs when American corporations were the ones to outsource them to China so that they could exploit the workers there for decades.

[@lehanjones242]

@@무군 cheeky indeed

[@melly_97]

As someone who just did a thesis on epistemology and epistemic injustice it is so fun to see Abby talk about parallel topics in this video! Great video Abby!

[@Advent3546]

The Arrival framework is a thing of beauty

[@Enzaio]

Such a great movie. Knowing that your child will die but then having it anyway... Gets me every time.

[@Sternmann]

They should've sent a youtuber

[@alexanderpowell5370]

Me: *Sees Olly upload* Nobody: Me: Oh boy, another exciting entry into the ContraPonts/Philosophy Tube/HBomberguy/Lindsay Ellis/Folding Ideas/Jenny Nicholson Cinematic Universe! Can't wait to see what the gang's up to this time!

[@quilespiritu]

I can't wait for another Innuendo Studios crossover!!

[@jotabeas22]

#LeftubersUnionize

[@Lerbia]

It was discovering this side of youtube that restored some of my faith in the platform.

[@rainer_uncrowned]

Whoooo lefties unite!

[@justthetruth3950]

Don't forget Peter Coffin!

[@mksabourinable]

As a Canadian I still don't understand the whole idea of criminals not being able to vote. Like we literally set up polling stations in prisons here. Considering that we got our system of government from yous, I'm actually really surprised that UK doesn't allow it!!

[@danielrhymes4593]

Our government is lusting after your southern neighbour is what's going on, unfortunately 😭

[@MeTheMeZ]

America here, so I can't speak for the UK, but in America those in prison are... demonized to the degree of unhumanizing them. The government wants you to look at them like animals, then the government can do whatever it wants to them and the public won't bat an eye, and profit from it, or at least feel righteous about it.

[@dabwiso784]

@@MeTheMeZ To your point about American prisoners, I've heard that American businesses use 'forced labour' from prisoners in their private prisons. No idea if its true or an exaggeration but if so that is absolutely messed up, especially with America's heavily publicised past of 'forced labour'.

[@rollypolly8515]

@@dabwiso784 it's totally true. The 13th amendment abolished involuntary servitude "except as a punishment for crime". In some states prisoners do get paid, but absolutely pathetic wages. The prisoners who got paid a dollar a day to fight fires in California comes to mind.

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@rollypolly8515 I like how we call ourselves "the land of the free" but ironically we make up 4% of the global population yet 22% of the world's prison population. A massive amount of the people in prisons shouldn't be there and they ought to get rights. Like not having to perform slave labor. Because it's slavery pure and simple. Maybe not by the legal defintion, but the law is wrong.

[@c-bass9968]

I just noticed how Abby used They/Them pronouns when referring to her 2016 video. This is the first time I’m re-watching her videos from before she transitioned.

[@gonzalogonzalez2585]

In my opinion, compulsory voting makes sense. Voting is one of those things that incorporate right and responsibility, for me. It's an individual right, but a communal responsibility. Idk

[@rorybyrne86]

In the last Australian election over 500,000 people submitted an invalid ballot. That is to say, 500 thousand people chose not to participate despite being required to show up to a polling station. Some people rock up to the polling booths, get their ballot and immediately put it in the box and leave without filling it out. Some people draw dicks on the ballot instead of filling it out. Some people even go to the effort of submitting a valid ballot AND drawing dicks on it. They are the true heroes of democracy.

[@nicholasgraham4402]

I think it's like jury duty, a civic duty that you have to do when called upon.

[@davidcapes1567]

I disagree because I think it exacerbates the biggest problem I have with democracy. Those who have no idea what they're talking / a surface level understanding of topics having the same voting power as those that have done a lot of research. They are likely to vote for the person they last saw on the news.

[@gonzalogonzalez2585]

Thanks, people, for answering. A year later, I take back what I said and prefer to err on the side of individual choice.

[@idrees1995]

@@gonzalogonzalez2585 what changed your mind?

[@herbivorosaurus]

Aussie here. Compulsory voting not that big a deal really. Stellar vid!

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Is there any provision for 'conscientious objectors'? Do people who refuse to vote on principle just pay the fine?

[@ExhaustedWombat]

Dorian sapiens you can pay a fine, you can donkey vote or you can turn up and invalidate your ballot so it won’t count. The last one spares you getting a fine and allows you to grab a democracy sausage at the same time.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

@@ExhaustedWombat I see, thanks. If I were designing a compulsory voting system from scratch, I think I'd want conscientious objectors to be allowed register in advance of each election to avoid the fine. On the other hand, who'd pass up the chance to have a sausage with the other members of your community? (Adding food culture to elections is such a smart idea.)

[@sogghartha]

@@ExhaustedWombat Do they have vegetarian democracy sausages?

[@toadie2k]

@@sogghartha Sometimes. It's not like a nationalised, formal thing, just a lot of local community groups and/or constituents do it as a community service, so the content of the Democracy Sausage varies from place. In short, there's a chance for it, but depends on who's organised the hotplate.

[@ThisFinalHandle]

I'm looking at the coffee cup stains on my table differently now.

[@DatFreshCookie]

Hey, just wanted to say that I'm writing an essay on "what is democracy" for one of my exams and your video really helped me get a couple of angles which I wouldn't have been able to find on my own, thank you!

[@Fuzzycuffsqt]

Democracy in the workplace sounds nice.

[@sars910]

Ok. I'm adding the phrase "I'm here anyway. Might as well do a democracy" to my vocabulary.

[@joyburd2]

It's wild to think about how much has changed since 2016, in particular this channel

[@unknownsoldier452]

Yes, it's a grifter channel now. Good business though, I admire it.

[@gunarsmiezis9321]

Most people who voted brexit still want it. There have been poes done.

[@tonivazquez1081]

I have to say i did discover this channel only like 3 weeks ago and there's not a day that i dont watch 1 or 2 videos. Brilliantly presented, well explained, open-minded. Really deserves more subscribers and boy oh boy will be benefit from more people viewing it. Abigail, great job.👍

[@JesseColton]

"The 1997 film Contact starting Jodie Foster" *Katya has entered the chat*

[@dylanchouinard6141]

And she has immediately done a split!

[@TheKa89]

*Jodie Foster Syndrome* "She believes that 18 hours of static means something... And it means something to me-'"

[@anava7030]

Some days you’re just windsurfing with your dad on the beach and then -

[@joaovscardoso]

Here in Brazil we do have compulsory voting and one of the common arguments I hear against it (at least from my privileged middle class position) is that there are plenty of uninformed citizens who, instead of choosing a candidate that is "best for the country", simply pick one at random or are easily manipulated by opportunistic politicians. They argue that when voting is optional, the people who actually vote would be the ones who have an interest in politics and are therefore more likely to be better informed on their decisions (which to me sounds dangerously elitist). Of course there is no way for me to know how many of the valid votes were based on "informed" decisions, but as you pointed out shouldn't all votes be valid regardless of whether or not they are "informed decisions"? In the end it feels like the high turnout rate has favoured some more left wing politicians in the past decade and that's why more conservative and right wing sections of the population tend to disapprove it. I still wonder how the rise of right wing populists (like our current president) will affect future elections, though. What I do know is that our turnout rate is pretty high, which should be a good thing, but the number of blank or invalid votes is also growing and that might become important in the near future. I don't know if this is an accurate description of our situation, but that's just how I perceive things to be this side of the world.

[@LabGoats]

@@TJHTouring Agreed, democracy is not at fault. We just don't actually have democracy. When money controls politics, overtly and/or clandestinely, democracy cannot exist... This is the case in all self-proclaimed democracies. The problem is lack of democracy, and political systems world-wife, insisting they are democratic. They are, almost all, plutpcratic. Plutocrats convince many that their countries are democratic with their control of the media and political spheres.

[@HorstEwald]

Well... looking at fascist history I feel confident in claiming that Bolsonaro will fuck with voting rights hard.

[@Fux704]

Fellow Brazilian here. I usually counteract those arguments by reminding people that not only the "well informed" will vote, but also the fanatics. Brazil now has a large, militant, evangelical community, and they would surely vote on whoever their pastors commanded them to. Compulsory voting evens out the extremists in capitalism.

[@donoteat01]

fulfilling my duty as a viewer: compulsory voting is good IMO

[@kabced]

I'd eat that.

[@Sternmann]

depends who we get to vote for - would compulsory voting lead to a demand for more representative parties and politics? Has this been the case in countries that have it already?

[@FlameQwert]

countries like australia and singapore have compulsory voting... they're not exactly perfect though, are they

[@shockwave2291]

NorikSigma No, but in the case with Australia it has allowed a lot of third-parties and independents into the parliament that otherwise would have no chance in a voluntary voting system. As someone who is opposed to a two-party system, this is inherently a good thing.

[@samusofthe9th789]

donoteat01 I love your videos too! Great to see you're a Philosophy Tube fan!

[@latifoljic]

6:29 as a STEM guy, let me translate the STEM guy's words properly. He wasn't regarding the aliens as a potential resource, he was proposing a way to use only the most fundamental mathematics to communicate with the aliens, because it's likely they will already understand mathematics so it can be used as a mutual point of reference from which to build a framework of understanding.

[@bbenny9033]

yeah i remember hearing similar stuff because of voyagers golden record and many different attempts by nasa and others to figure out what is fundamental in the universe to communicate with aliens.

[@StephenLeaSheppard]

Ironically this is a perfect example of how two people with different ideological frameworks can examine one thing and come to two conclusions.

[@nhorvath6259]

arguably he was still seeing them as a resource since the questions he wanted to ask were concerned with their technological capabilities. his sentence about communicating with them through binary sequences was not particularly relevant to that though, so Abigail continuing to caption it as "the aliens are a potential resource" was a bit misleading

[@latifoljic]

@@nhorvath6259 He's a STEM guy. Of course he's asking about they're technological capabilities, that's basically what human STEM guys talk about with each other lol. Doesn't mean we see each other as a resource. He just was talking shop.

[@nhorvath6259]

@@latifoljic right, but I'd still say the implications point to his main purpose in communication with the Heptapods at that point being to further humanity's scientific and technological knowledge. contrast that with Weber's purpose, which is to learn enough to determine whether they're a threat, and Banks's, which is to establish communication just for the sake of it (with maybe some undertones of a personal, social, and/or cultural understanding and respect of the aliens). Abigail's point is certainly a lot weaker when it's recognized that half of what Donnelly was saying was indeed about communication, but I think it still stands.

[@nuggetsboi5558]

"I wonder what ever happened to that sweet little boy..." He ate too much soy.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

Hbomberguy?

[@foofustherabbit]

Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! Soy! Soy! Soy!

[@einfachnurjan1858]

@@foofustherabbit Hail Soybek! I'll show myself out

[@MrMatheuslego]

@Mac Mcskullface Soy is what turns boys into *daddies* 😉

[@genessab]

Just a brazilian geek that doesn't have enough creativity to create an interesting name sameeeee

[@Sporkabyte]

I took a seminar earlier this year called “philosophy and arrival”, so needless to say I am very excited for this one; even at the expense of sleeping-which I had planned on doing until I saw this.

[@Gammr0]

I just want to say this video struck really good balance between straight up lecturing and using storytelling as a device in your videos. I felt like some of your later videos have become more story than content(but by no means less interesting), but you did a really good job at balancing the elements here.