British Couple Reacts to The American Civil War - OverSimplified (Part 1)

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British Couple Reacts to The American Civil War - OverSimplified (Part 1)
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Original Video - • The American Civil War...
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Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

[@TheBeesleys99]

Hopefully sound now! KZbin just randomly removed it on the previous upload!

[@xJamesLaughx]

I was wondering why people were saying about sound in the comments as it had sound for me. I must have viewed it before KZbin removed it lol.

[@craig_wood]

You guys should react to Dr. Thomas Sowell’s video, what they didn’t teach you about slavery in school, great video from one of the most intelligent men still alive…

[@bekah728]

It's been happening recently to random videos. It's definitely a KZbin problem.

[@charliecostella]

More slaves alive today right now than ever so it's still going on.

[@ex-navyspook]

If you guys ever get over "the Pond" to Pennsylvania, I can set up a tour with one of the curators at the Battlefield in Gettysburg that most tourists never get a chance to see. I say "us" because I always learn something new on those tours.

[@masamune2984]

Btw, that story about that little girl telling Lincoln he should grow a beard was basically true, and he actually wrote her and credited her beard suggestion with helping him win votes and the election 😄

[@muhmammdhidytllh7312]

Yeah that beard of his basically become a patton of his lol

[@scipioafricanus5871]

What Alaska calls the Lower 49.

[@himwhoisnottobenamed5427]

@@scipioafricanus5871 I thought it was the lower 48. As Hawaii is super far away.

[@scipioafricanus5871]

@@himwhoisnottobenamed5427 It is the Lower 48 I just changed it to include Hawaii as part of a joke I can't remember now.

[@paulwatson2499]

My great great grandfather was in the Civil war.. that war was a blood bath on both sides.

[@robertschlemmer6032]

An interesting fact not mentioned is that all of the major generals: Grant, Lee, Meade, Bragg etc. all attended the US Army Academy at West Point together. Not long after, they all served together during the Mexican War. The fact that these men found themselves fighting each other 15 years later shows how tragic, and personal the Civil War was.

[@jcarlovitch]

Only Meade and Bragg were at West Point together. Lee was well before them and Grant well after them.

[@robertschlemmer6032]

@@jcarlovitch My mistake, but I know Grant was a Leutinant serving under Lee at one point during the Mexican war.

[@gregoryeatroff8608]

@@robertschlemmer6032 Lt. Colonel Lee outranked Lt. Grant, but didn't directly command him. Lee was a general staff officer, while Grant was quartermaster of the 4th US Infantry Regiment.

[@lowcountrydogos3142]

Fathers snd sons were also fighting each other. Robert E Lee son wasn't apart of the confederation. & actively worked against his father. Honestly, at first watching this I kept saying it wasn't about slavery in the beginning, as Lincoln stated he wasn't going to take slaves. Southern states didn't want to Unionize. Taxes and all. A Black man actually had the biggest plantation and had the most slaves and contributed the most money in the Civil war. I live in SC. Actually, 30 mins from Charleston, SC. Many (usually older) black people here wear confederate shirts & stuff. If you don't know your history it'll could startle you. Their ancestors fought in the war. Segregation still existed, some did find their way North. As there was a Segregated community where they could go. But freed slaves could own land in the south, so they fought. They're were, also, slaves that fought unwillingly. Also, indentured white people were slaves, and considered property. That's how my son's ancestors came here & my husband is very "white'. Europe, Ireland, Even Neanderthal 😀 was in his DNA, where mine is native & Mali, Africa but considered "white". Anyway. I am happy, as a southern state, when I grew up(after Era of Jim Crow) it was a balance. If not majority black. We didn't have the racism people now talk so much about. Atleast, not as much after the 60's. My friends were of all races. I see stuff online or on my TV that is crazy. Then I go out into my town, we are all just normal people, loving and caring for each other. Sure there's bad eggs, but mostly & thankfully, there's peace. Which we should all try to have, no matter where you live. It's the elites that are more racists. & generational wealth (black wealth) is beginning to effect the upper class, so they try to start race wars. Anything to distract us from uniting, stopping the BS that goes on in Washington, by holding them accountable. I didn't mean to make this a novel. Just a comment on the family fighting family. But now you have a southern girls perspective. Lol I'll be watching part 2 with y'all. Look forward see what other info they have. Oh, & if UK was close to acknowledging the confederation as their own "country" to negotiate cotton etc. with. If they had recognized the south, it was over for Abe. They (south)were literally starved to death. Look at pictures of the North in uniforms fat and happy, and the South skin and bones. They had to have it be a "moral" issue. Instead of a States rights issue. Crazy & sad time in our history. So much death. Also, Contrary to belief, there were many educated blacks in the south. Even before my time. All of my principles. 50% of my teachers, etc, etc. I didn't learn other places weren't like my own, until i was an adult. I still learn more every day.

[@jaredwat8478]

Did you know that Simon Bolivar Buckner who Grant demanded unconditional surrender from at Ft.Donnelson actually had previously loaned grant money which is why he thought he might receive favorable terms from grant. Eventually after Grant’s death he would go on to be a pallbearer for grant along with Joseph Johnston who had fought for the south.

[@masamune2984]

I think Millie pretty much nailed how most Americans feel (MOST…certainly not all) with her flag hanging analogy. It’s like a family…you may fight with your siblings, but when it comes down to it, it’s your family as a whole that counts, and that you love most of all. (Again…like Millie said…for most people)😅

[@WaywardVet]

Yup. Loyal to my birth state and current city, but if anyone outside the family starts a ruckus i'll throw down together beside even a Florida man. It's like the British panel shows where you got the ones from the North making fun of the guy from Wales, or the posh boy from London. You know they'll all come together in a fight.

[@bigschmill294]

Exactly. As divided as we seem right now, when we need to, us Yanks do come together. We all love this country and want it to prosper. We just get very passionate on how we think it should be. But we're all in this together.

[@pjschmid2251]

The shift from loyalty to state first and country second really took hold during the first and second world wars. Prior to that there was still a strong affinity to have loyalty to your state first. This is born out of the creation of the country. It was a bunch of colonies that were all individual and self governed that formed a coalition in order to overthrow their common British overlord. When they wrote the constitution it was very much with that mentality in mind. They reserved very few powers for the federal government and only those that they felt were absolutely necessary to govern the coalition. All other powers were left to the states, i.e. the colonies, to continue to govern themselves as they had been doing. That is why you so often see such variation in laws from state to state in the United States. Things that are normally controlled at a country level in the rest of the world are done at a state level to this day in the United States. Changing that is very difficult because it would require changes to the constitution and states are loath to give up any power that they possess.

[@LifeSucks8]

pffft not where im from

[@sphjinx1448]

@@LifeSucks8 the south? Sorry, just assuming. I’m from Kentucky, so I’m kind of from the south too. Not Deep South, but still.

[@danglinghenry8108]

Every state has their own military (national guard) for the sole purpose of protecting their state from invasion by other states, although it has never been used for that and functions primarily for disaster relief and national defense when called, it is there just in case.

[@ZedrikVonKatmahl]

Many states have their own actual military (state defense forces)

[@pageribe2399]

The National Guard also is there to protect the states from invasion by the US military. Only governors can call up the guard within the US. The Federal government can call up the National Guard to fight against other countries, however.

[@westsonrises]

That's not what the national guard is for

[@roaaoife8186]

The National Gaurd, while able to be called up by the Governor of the State where they are stationed, are still a branch of the US military and answer to the federal government. The National Gaurd could never be used to invade another state.

[@chrisvibz4753]

​@@roaaoife8186totally could happen though. Say another civil war breaks out and the states who are on one side call on their national guardsmen if they would want to help them

[@duaneschultz9230]

The story of the little girl giving Lincoln the advice to grow the beard is actually a true story. It didn’t happen like in the video. But she did recommend that to him to make him look a little older and wiser. God bless you both and your family and friends. Duane.

[@lindaeasley5606]

In the early going there were factions within Britain actively supporting the slave states. I read that there were even a scantful of British citizens who came over to the US and offered their services such as a surgeon in one of the southern states. The Emancipation Proclamation put a big damper on that

[@izzonj]

While the UK had abolished slavery, it didn't stop them from profiting from cheap cotton grown with the labor of slaves in the USA.

[@robertewalt7789]

Also, many Irish immigrants were drafted into the Union Army.

[@BGBG617]

The Battle of Antietam remains the bloodiest single day in American History. The battle lasted all day in three phases. The Irish Brigade played a crucial role in turning the battle at the Sunken Road.

[@tjcassidy2694]

^Gettysburg enters the chat*

[@BGBG617]

@@tjcassidy2694 Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle but it spanned 3 days. Antietam was the bloodiest single. day.

[@theequalsgamer2074]

@@tjcassidy2694 Stones river

[@sirarthurharris5407]

Technically Antietam is the bloodiest single day of American history but the deadliest was The Great Galveston Hurricane where 6,000 to 12,000 people died overnight.

[@lazymansload520]

31:45 a battle not mentioned here (but actually affected the UK) is the battle between the confederate ironclad ship Virginia (commonly called by its former name the Merrimack), which attacked vulnerable union ships and was sent to attack Washington, agains the union ironclad Monitor, (sent to stop the Merrimack from reaching Washington). Before, the Merrimack on fought wooden sides battleships, which it commonly sunk. Now, for the first time, two iron clad ships would fight each other. In the end, neither ship was able to damage the other, so the battle ended in a draw (though since the Merrimack never got to Washington, I guess it’s technically a union victory). While the battle is today commonly thought of almost as a joke, it had a pretty big effect on history. In London, when the leaders of the British Royal Navy, the largest navy on earth at the time, learned of the battle between the monitor and the Merrimack, they immediately cancelled all their orders for constructing wooden sides battleships; they realized that the age of wooden war ships, which mankind had experienced for thousands of years, had finally ended. Other similar inventions from the civil war include primitive submarines (crank-powered vessels used by the confederates to ram at high speeds into the sides of union ships) and the first United States Air Force (three hot air balloons used to spy on confederate troops).

[@kamthornhill477]

Although the first submarine sadly unsuccessful was first used in the American Revolution

[@jerseydevs2000]

I have read that one of the reasons for British sympathy for the Confederacy has to do with the fact that Southern aristocracy and gentlemanly manners gave them more in common with Britain and the industrial North was actually becoming an economic rival to the British Empire. I do know that the stronghold of Southern sympathizers in England was in Lancashire, as the mills in the county depended on Southern cotton (as alluded to in the video). Liverpool and Manchester became rich in part from cotton farmed in the Southern United States and Crown colonies.

[@dontworry5696]

I think it probably had more to do with money/cotton imports more than anything else.

[@mikegreer1599]

Before the war the south was selling cotton to England. The American government tolt the south they had to sell cotton to the north at less money. The south called it the war against Northern aggression. Also less than 22% of people in the south owned slaves. With that several slave owners were black.

[@GrumpyOldGuyPlaysGames]

Historian Shelby Foote, an expert on the US Civil War, once put it this way: "Before the Civil War, Americans would say 'the United States are...', using the plural. After the Civil War, everyone said, "the United States is..." because the one thing the war did was properly unify the country from a collection of cooperative mini-nations into a united country."

[@geoffreyherrick298]

I always thought that was an oversimplification. The Civil War wasn't fought over semantics.

[@GrumpyOldGuyPlaysGames]

@@geoffreyherrick298 And amazingly enough, neither I nor Dr. Foote mentioned semantics at all. Which means your objecting to something no one said. Funny how that works. The quote is about the long term effect of the war, not the reasons behind it. Reading comprehension is a thing. Just saying.

[@ZedrikVonKatmahl]

Yes, the Union government shredded the Constitution and forced centralization of the power to the federal government and then forced the ones who held the constitutional view to rejoin the union under the new anticonstitutional paradigm bringing us to the travesty of a federal government and weak state governments we have today

[@demiurgenext]

Shelby Foote is not a historian, he's a folklorist, and he reported stories passed down through Southern families over and over again as if they were fact, as opposed to folklore and mythology . Historians have sources and citations - none of Foote's works ever did.

[@bjbohner24]

State vs Country can be described like this. If you have siblings you may fight with each other but if an outsider messes with one you all come to their defense.

[@123lodge8]

I’d say these days were are less like siblings and more like annoying cousins.

[@xJamesLaughx]

Antietam had roughly 23,000 killed or wounded during the battle. And today is the 160th Anniversary of the Battle for Antietam.

[@scottdean2199]

To your early question of slavery... Both Britain and the US made the slave trade (importing slaves) illegal in March of 1807. Britain took it the next step with the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833, but it still had exceptions for parts of the Empire under administration of the East India Company. India abolished the sale of slaves in 1848, but still had its own...peculiarities.

[@david-1775]

Side note. The US wasn't able to legally outlaw the import of slaves until 20 years after the constitution was ratified, which was in 1787. So the US made it illegal as soon as they could. In addition the President who signed it and made it law was Thomas Jefferson.

[@grumblesa10]

Holland didn't outlaw slavery in their colonies until about 1850. Many Confederates left for Brazil where slavery was still legal until the 1880s or so.

[@SAPPERJASON1]

Your state you live in is very important. The country is as well, it’s kinda like your state is your home and the country is your backyard. Both equally important.

[@jackmessick2869]

Eli Whitney, an inventor from Connecticut, developed the theory of standardization of parts, which supported the industrialization of the north, and the cotton "gin," which made the removal of cotton seeds extremely easy. So he unwittingly intensified the differences between north and south on both sides.

[@John-ci8yk]

The Abraham Lincoln thing, "how am I funny , funny how." Comes from the movie Goodfellas. Joe Pesci is especially scary in this scene. Thank you and thumbs up.

[@thekittygoesmeow9652]

LOVE THE CHANNEL! Texas was probably not the best state to use as an example. Most here fly the Texas flag before the American Flag. If you ever watch the movie "Lone Survivor" you get a taste of the Texas mentality through the character Marcus (Mark Wahlberg). Keep up the good work Beesley's!!!

[@istiles1]

One of Ken Burns' first widely watched documentaries was 'The Civil War' [1990], it radically changed many Americans' perspectives on the war because it spent so much time detailing the events, how they interacted, and the consequences. Shelby Foote [a Southern author, expert on the Civil War, and whose accent you may not be able to understand] had the best quote of the series in my opinion - 'before the War people'd say The United States are' and after the War they'd say 'The United States is' ... a brilliant series that explains modern America & Americans to this day.

[@deweyoxburger295]

My 2nd-great-grandfather was wounded at the Battle of Antietam; he was hit by a piece of flying fence rail. Today is the anniversary.

[@FuhqEwe]

My Great Uncle was shot in the leg and survived. Kept his leg, too.

[@janethoffman4197]

We generally love and are proud of our states. We argue about which is better, but all of that is put aside when it comes to situations like war, terrorist attacks, or natural disasters.

[@cseamen]

The slaves that went over to the Union side were not put to work as slaves. They were offered jobs, and many accepted. Others joined the army. Others were skilled craftsmen and they made out quite well. Even in those days men had to eat.

[@therambler3055]

That’s not true at all. They were sent majority unwillingly to do hard labor (contraband camps) that white soldiers didn’t want to do.

[@cseamen]

@@therambler3055 we’re both partly correct, and partly wrong. Wikipedia’s “Contraband (American Civil War)” indicates the laborers were first conscripted by force but were SOON put on the payroll. Those who joined the Union Army were paid, as well.

[@zachk5652]

@@cseamenThey were paid, but paid less, and were on the front lines.

[@elkins4406]

I think that for the most part, people hold loyalties (and antipathies) more to regions than to the states themselves. There are exceptions, of course -- both Texas and California are states that many people hold strong feelings one way or the other about -- but I'd say that most Americans are more likely to feel strongly about somewhat larger regions of the country: New England, the South, the Pacific Northwest, etc. (Or sometimes *smaller* regions: Californians, for example, often have very strong affinities to Northern or Southern California while holding the other half of the state in disdain!)

[@dorkandproudofit]

The incident with Charles Sumner getting caned was actually pretty horrific. Sumner's skull literally cracked open, and even when he was unconscious, his attacker kept beating him and only stopped because the cane broke. And while all of this was happening? The Southern politicians were LAUGHING.

[@MarsJenkar]

As a side note, notice that in the video that Sumner's barb was directed at the _Senator_ from South Carolina, and that the person who retaliated was _Representative_ Preston Brooks. That's not a mistake; Sumner was actually directing the insult at Senator Andrew Butler. Brooks was a relative of Butler (first cousin once removed according to Wikipedia), and chose to retaliate on Butler's behalf (Butler himself, as far as I can tell, had no say in this matter, save possibly after the fact).

[@ryang6311]

State loyalty I think really comes down to each state or maybe region. If a person is not from a state like Florida or Texas that has a lot of pride. Then people are more loyal to cities like Boston, Chicago, LA, or Atlanta, or even regions like New England, North California (NorCal), Southern California (SoCal), The South, or the midwest.

[@joshuafrahm8778]

They mention Winfield Scott being a veteran of the Mexican-American War as an example of his age, but many of the generals on both side were. For an example of how old Scott was, he joined the Army in 1808, and was made a general during the War of 1812

[@slip-n-slide4807]

15:05 - actually Texans arguably have the most pride in their state compared to others. As far as the Texas flag, it's actually very common to see them here and if I'm not mistaken I think it's the only state that's allowed to fly their state flag at the same height as the US flag

[@Mrdestiny17]

yup, it can fly at the same height but most of the time people wont out of respect for the United States flag. Only reason is cause texas was it's own country when it entered the US and was allowed to leave if it wanted but never did

[@user-kj2fj8qr9l]

@@Mrdestiny17 iirc it's a misnomer that Texas is unique in any way in this regard. The flag code doesn't give an exception to Texas, and legally the flag code doesn't establish mandatory rules so much as it establishes a custom for the nation to follow.

[@seangates1451]

Also the Emancipation Proclamation didn’t free the northern slaves… so it really was exactly what they said here… a political move to re-frame the conflict. I like this video way more than I thought I would. Dare I say it, it’s generally fair and balanced.

[@seangates1451]

@@jaydouglas8845 uh, yeah I did. I didn’t hear any mention of Northern slaves. They talked about the rest of it, though.

[@TheAngryXenite]

@@seangates1451 I'm going to object to "northern" just on principle, even though in this case you're using it to mean "Union states." Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, and Delaware are not considered northern states. They are southern states who happened to favor the Union, for various reasons.

[@seangates1451]

@@TheAngryXenite fine, but don’t forget New Jersey

[@demiurgenext]

The presidency didn't have the power to free slaves in states loyal to the US. That required a Constitutional Amendment. The EP was an invocation of war powers, were slaves were considered property (as they were in the Constitution) and therefore could be seized in areas under rebellion. Lincoln was pivotal to the passing of the 13th Amendment, seeing to slavery's despise before he was assassinated.

[@jethomas232]

Hi Guys. North Carolinain here. I love things about the, as it is sometimes called, "THE WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION". Here's something to think about. The emancipation proclaimation didn't make slavery illegal in all states. It made it illegal in the states in rebellion. In other words in the Confederate States. So all slaves were not free. I think Part Two would be fantastic. I do enjoy seeing your reactions to things in the U.S. Keep up the good work.

[@dubo2769]

The Emancipation Proclamation basically made slavery illegal in all states. It only stated the states I the Confederacy, but slavery was already illegal in all of the Union states. Oh btw, I'm from Kentucky, and I just wanna say we also sometimes refer to it as the War of Northern Aggression, depends on the person ofc :)

[@david-1775]

@@dubo2769 Uh, no it didn't. The proclamation (January 1, 1863) was directed to all of the areas in rebellion and all segments of the executive branch (including the Army and Navy) of the United States. The slaves in the North were not freed until the 13th amendment was ratified on December 6, 1865. It would maybe be correct to say it laid the groundwork for making slavery illegal in every state.

[@TheAngryXenite]

To be fair to Lincoln, he couldn't have outlawed slavery with the EP outright. What he did was explicitly phrased as a war measure, meaning he couldn't turn it on loyal states, as you can't really pass a law allowing you to confiscate people's legal property without compensation or consent. The Emancipation Proclamation was also, almost certainly, an overreach of his power already, which is why he was so serious about getting the 13th Amendment passed.

[@randlebrowne2048]

@@TheAngryXenite Lincoln did so many things, that are specifically *forbidden* by the Constitution, that he'd simply be known today as a *tyrant* if he hadn't freed the slaves as an afterthought!

[@gregggullickson]

Enjoyed watching your reaction. I’m 75 and grew up in Norfolk, Virginia (Navy family). As kids there were several TV shows about the civil war. The boys in our neighborhood used to play war and most of the boys, including me, wanted to be on the Rebel side. We did not know much about the war, but from TV and our state’s history we thought the South were the good guys. We also often turned a blind eye to racism at that time. Fortunately, we have learned that much of what we believed when we were young was wrong, and this is one reason I remain optimistic: the world, my country, and my state have gotten much better over my lifetime. There’s much that remains to be done, but the trend is in the right direction.

[@SickBoiRENegade]

Im from Norfolk, VA too 🙋‍♀️Hey neighbor!

[@brudnick39]

Generally speaking, the series on the Civil War is one of Oversimplified's better efforts. They did a good job balancing the run time and the amount of jokes with getting pretty much all the important events covered in the two parts. The primary issue with the information they presented is that they give a quite wrong impression about the Founding Fathers' understanding of the issues they were leaving to their descendants to solve. Oversimplified shows them partying like they had no appreciation of how big and difficult issue slavery was going to be, but that could not be further from the truth...they had a very deep understanding of how divisive slavery could be. ✌✌

[@Stephanie-ik1vq]

Yet they ignored it. Whether they had no appreciation of it, or they just chose to ignore it for political reasons (so as to not cause controversy), the outcome was the same.

[@brudnick39]

@@Stephanie-ik1vq That is wrong...they were fighting for anti-slavery measures from the very beginning, certainly it was an important element of the Constitutional Convention. Their success was limited, but at least two clauses made it into the Constitution that were anti-slavery measures.

[@mlee-w664]

@@brudnick39 Saying "they were fighting for anti-slavery measures from the very beginning" is an overstatement. They were not universally against slavery, in fact over half of the people who signed the Declaration of Independence owned slaves. And many of the most vocal founding fathers who "abhorred" slavery owned and traded them themselves. Famous founding fathers who vocalized "hating" the instatution Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and James Madison owned hundreds of slaves respectively, as well as Ben Franklin, John Hancock, and Alexander Hamilton who each owned multiple. If the decision were anywhere near unanimous, the founding fathers would have banned the institution in 1776, instead they kicked the can down the road, ignoring the issue until it boiled over almost 100 years later.

[@cathyjackson5441]

@@mlee-w664 DNA has also proved that some of the founding fathers had children with their slaves. They actually enslaved their own children. 😢.

[@brudnick39]

@@mlee-w664 You are certainly right that only a minority of the signers of the Declaration...I should have made that more clear that I was never talking about all of them. But the minority that were against slavery did what they could to arrange things so that the Northern advantage in the Electoral College could lead to the end of slavery as an institution. It was ultimately the fact that the South could not prevent the election of Lincoln despite keeping him off their ballots that brought the slave states to choose secession, at least in some significant part. ✌

[@cargopilotguy305]

As an American here are my thoughts: 1. The issue of states rights has never been settled and will lead to more turmoil in the future 2. Lincoln was a tyrant who violated our supreme laws 3. I’m certainly glad that I’m not a slave because of the 13th amendment, but I wish we wouldn’t allow migrants to illegally take advantage of the 14th amendment 4. Everyone ought to read the states’ letters of recession and examine the arguments in favor of states rights and how the federal government had abdicated its duty. The same arguments are even more pressing today. Trouble is ahead

[@johncoulombe833]

I am a volunteer interpreter at Manassas National Battlefield Park in Virginia. This was the site of two major Civil War battles -- First Manassas (or First Bull Run) was the first major battle of the war, fought on July 21, 1861; and Second Manassas, a 3-day battle fought from Aug. 28 to 30, 1862. Second Manassas was a much larger battle and is considered by many historians to be Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee's masterpiece.

[@Alphasnowbordergirl]

To answer your question, I believe Southern states still hold their state more loyal than the federal ones as I see more state vs fed rights on the news there, while the northern ones tend to be less anti fed, but the people in each state does hold pride towards their state usually in some degree and minor rivaleries and dislikes almost like students and alumni from their colleges. Just depending on where in the US you are (even in the same state), the strength can increase or decrease. My family does hold the country as a whole more important than the state as we are a military family and serving the country is a mentality in my household. You don't go to war for the state but for the country as a whole afterall.

[@ronshelton4356]

Texas was actually a separate country from 1836 to 1848, and is the only state that flies its flag at same height as U.S. flag. While we may fly the U.S. flag on the lawn or doorpost, nearly all Texans have the state flag pinned a wall inside.

[@pribilovian4709]

Born and raised in Alaska, yeaahhhh, sometimes I do have more loyalty to my state than the rest of the country only because there's Americans that still don't know we are part of the USA because we are not physically connected 😂 but ultimately, we can't be divided so I love my country and will do anything for it

[@Vonwra]

Fun fact “unconditional surrender grant” was his actual nickname

[@spiderking8011]

I always remember it because his nickname has the same initials as his 'actual' name U. S. Grant

[@stevemak8620]

At 10:25 you say that it is mental that that could happen again. Made me shake my head and smile sadly, because that very thing is happening again...

[@gregweatherup9596]

Connection to state over country was much stronger back then than now. Now it tends to vary more by individual and by state (some states engender more loyalty than others- ie Texas and Texans) but I think the majority definitely list themselves as Americans first and “of their state” a distant second, if at all. Personally, I’ve lived in 3 different states in my life and have lots of family connections (and so have spent a lot of time in) a fourth. Of the 4 I really don’t feel any connection to the one I currently live in despite having lived here far longer than any of the others (I wound-up here by circumstance and can’t afford to leave). Had I stayed or settled in one of the other three (where I was born, where I grew up, or where I’ve got several family connections) I might feel differently but I definitely consider myself just American and not at all “of my state”.

[@lauralackner6856]

I have lived in Ohio and Florida while I was growing up. I also spent a lot of time in Massachusetts. I feel Ohio is my home state but as an American I support my whole country and feel a sense of unity with the U.S.

[@cja2192]

In Texas we most definitely have the American flag & the Texas flag up everywhere. I’ve lived in Texas my entire life & can’t think of a single time I’ve only seen the American flag flying without the Texas flag right there with it.

[@JayCross]

I'd say loyalty to my state is a hobby, but loyalty to the country is my life.

[@Melissa-wx4lu]

I think that most Americans when asked where they are from, name their state rather than their Country. It would make sense if they were speaking with other Americans, but even when chatting on international threads/chats, they name their state. To be fair, America is so huge that perhaps by naming their state, they are narrowing down where they are from. But it seems many people have no clue how massive the country actually is and treat states like cities within the country.

[@ncthom88]

The UK had gotten out of the slave trade, but the British textile industry relied very heavily on cotton that was grown by enslaved people in the Southern U.S. In some ways, slavery in the US was a critical contributor to the Industrial Revolution in the UK by providing "cheap" raw materials (but ultimately, very, very costly in every way but money).

[@dmwalker24]

When the Civil War broke out British importation of cotton from India went up to 90% of all cotton imports. It actually destabilized the market pretty significantly. As for loyalty to state versus loyalty to the nation, there is to this day a strong correlation between position on the left/right spectrum, and loyalty to state over country. Particularly in the Southern states. The animosity leading up to the war, and made worse during the reconstruction period that followed is still very much alive and well today.

[@randlebrowne2048]

There is also the fact that the federal government has continually usurped the Constitutional separation of powers between state and federal government. Force (and the threat of force) can only "resolve" such debates for so long (especially since the Constitution, as written, has never been amended to actually give the federal government the powers that it claims by force).

[@nikoknightpuppetproduction369]

I remember studying about it at school. There is a lot of more details about it. Great video. Keep up the amazing work.

[@michellesartain8801]

California here🙌🏻😊 I absolutely LOVE the way Millie explained state v country..yes we declare our states and what not, but at the end of the day it’s an American flag hanging up on our door..well said😊 God bless and hi from So Cal🤗🤗

[@cyberus1438]

Born and bred Kansas boy here. I have great pride in the state of Kansas and what we have accomplished over the years, but we are an American first and foremost and forever

[@jimmiegiboney2473]

Mark 13:05. Earlier it was the buckets from, "KFC", and now you have the image of, "Colonel Sanders", to further emphasize the joke. 😁

[@Alphasnowbordergirl]

You know, a lot of these tensions still exist today.

[@randlebrowne2048]

Ironically, a big part of what may be our *next* civil war is a direct result of Lincoln's actions in the first one. While no one disputes that his ending of slaver was a good thing, the way that Lincoln used military force to grab power for the federal government (that belonged to the states) *without* amending the Constitution, has led us directly to the current tensions between the states. This federal power-grab has steadily progressed over the years until the actions of the federal government now bear little resemblance to what is actually *written* (and voted on) in the Constitution. With this more powerful federal government, the stakes of federal elections have become ever higher; since, the side in control can now impose it's will on the other side, rather than "live and let live" as was intended by the Constitution. We seem to be rapidly approaching the point where the Union may fall apart, regardless of which side has federal control (both sides have been talking about seceding for a while now).

[@1cynik]

I probably said this before but millie is an absolute gem. So are you James! But appreciate her insight which I know you do. 🤗

[@harrycrux7757]

Robert E Lee was a legend, he just lost troops

[@Liz33991]

15:15 the Texas state flag does hang at most doors/homes in Texas. They’re a unique state 😉

[@stinkbug4321]

Everything about the caning incident was true, except for the part about wearing women's underwear. And people did send Sen. Brooks new canes to replace his old one. The congressman did start carrying arms, not RPG's and grenade launchers but they did carry handguns. Six

[@douglasmarkussen8529]

Definitely more State-aligned than federal-aligned.

[@brianwilson9206]

When a person identified with a state was mainly because and also resided in that state. Robert E. Lee was recruited by Lincoln , but he chose Virginia and the Confederacy. Had Virginia stayed in the Union , Lee would have fought for the Union. Being a Civil War it divided not just states, but even families. Truly brother against brother

[@collinstv1531]

More loyalty to the country over the state for sure. We’re all one, we may fight and disagree but we’re family

[@eurow3808]

My AP history teacher in hs said that Lincoln basically had a choice to make when it came to rules he broke during the war. The way he put was “sorry but I kinda need to break you, in order to save you”

[@ZedrikVonKatmahl]

Yeah, no Lincoln started a war over economic tyranny and just got worse (like arresting newspapers for exposing what he did at Sumter)

[@eurow3808]

@@ZedrikVonKatmahl I’d rather have Lincoln do all that and more than let treasonous whiney bastards get away with succeeding.

[@renaetieman6581]

I’d love to see you do part 2! As an American we learn these things and it’s just like “ok. Yeah. It happened” but to hear from people outside the US with their perspective is really eye opening. As far as state vs National: the idea behind states’ rights to govern was so that the federal govt couldn’t become tyrannical and overrule the will of the people. So those regulations not set forth in the Constitution were left up to each state to decide. (Think abortion laws, Education laws). This also applies to taxes (federal vs state) and what taxes may be used for. To simplify and correlate it to something familiar; it would be as if Britain and other countries were “states” but the whole of Europe was one country. Those “states” would have their laws and their legislatures but the “big law” would be the whole of Europe. I hope that makes sense. There is quite a bit of divide here in the US. The states that made up the confederacy still hold that pride…usually above the pride of state. I’ve lived in 3 different states. I still say I’m from the first. The most interesting time for me (w regards to the civil war) was when I lived in Southern MD. It was part of the Union, but had many many southern sympathizers. To learn and study the history there put a new light on things for me. I found out we lived near a Union POW camp for confederate soldiers and did a TON of research. I wound up being invited into the local elementary school to give talks about the history. Sorry if this is too long winded. I found a passion for this aspect of US history.

[@seangates1451]

Point Lookout?

[@renaetieman6581]

@@seangates1451 yup. Was really interesting to learn the history there.

[@seangates1451]

@@renaetieman6581 I live in King George VA. I was doing some research on the land where I grew up and learned that the guy who owned it until 1936 was a civil war veteran and his brother had died in the camp at Point Lookout. I’d been up there a few times and had no idea what it had once been.

[@kupski1964]

But ole Abe also said in his private memoirs that "he would of sent them back to Africa but feared there wouldn't be enough provisions for them."

[@kupski1964]

Feel more loyal to Florida than the poison government of the Fed.

[@MLeibs]

Regarding your question, I think after the American Civil War, we became a true Union. *BEFORE, we were a union of states. AFTER, we were states in a union.*

[@seangates1451]

I always say I’m a Virginian first and an American second.

[@JoeyVatavuk]

I’m from Pennsylvania and we were literally never taught about the western states’ involvement in all this. didn’t expect to learn something. love the channel guys

[@renaetieman6581]

NJ originally and same.

[@jsjazz12]

I was born in PA and still live here. We learned all about the western states involvement. Guess it depends on the school district. I live in a very rural area.

[@robertsterner2145]

I grew up in Philadelphia and I definitely learned about it.

[@gmunden1]

The child insulting Lincoln at the train station is a true incident.

[@davidbryan4732]

If i ever win the lottery i' m going to vive Millie and i guess that British guy that helps her with her pod cast a free trip all over the USA so wish me luck folks

[@pacio49]

Dude, we LITERALLY fought the Civil War to settle once and for all whether America was a coalition of States first/Nation second, or a Federal Union first and States second. I guess you'll need to watch the second video in the series to find out how Trial by Combat ultimately decided the issue.

[@randlebrowne2048]

The fact that the actual "Constitution" is at odds with the result of that war (and has never been amended to reflect that) is one of the major reasons why we seem to be rapidly heading towards a rematch in that "Trial by Combat"!

[@mikek0135]

Most of the people brought to the U.S. to be sold as slaves weren't stolen, they were tricked or sold. There was plenty of warring going on in Africa at the time, and the winners would often times take the losers as slaves, and then sell them to the slavers. Also, alot of Africans were told about a great life in the land of honey, so they decided to go to this great land, not knowing they were just to become slaves, and some of the worst treated slaves in history. Some were kidnapped, though, and there's alot of other ways the enslaving happened.

[@filthycasual8187]

Yeah. I love Oversimplified, but he leaned a little too hard into the propaganda on that one.

[@mikek0135]

@Filthy Casual: I hear ya. Somstimes I have to remember it's oversimplified, not overdetailed. 😄

[@TheAngryXenite]

I feel like this is a distinction without a difference. If you're taken as slaves in a tribal conflict in Africa and sold on to Europeans, you're still being stolen from your home.

[@filthycasual8187]

@@TheAngryXenite The problem here is that the blame is being placed solely on Europeans by the video.

[@richardduarte9118]

Two different "loyalties," I would say. It also depends on the state. Texans are Texans first, and they will make sure you know that. Californians also have a massive state pride. But most other states don't have quite as much state pride as them.

[@lazymansload520]

27:11 it was actually the newspapers who came up with the name “Unconditional Surrender Grant”

[@johnalden5821]

On the state pride vs. National patriotism issue, Millie is basically correct. People will extol their state and local food traditions, how good the beaches or mountains are, etc. Often, people with deep roots in a state or area will identify with it pretty keenly. But everybody knows that a state is not the same thing as the nation itself. The United States is the nation-state, and the states are just components of it. Now, I might talk smack about other states, but in the end, those people are Americans. Their fathers and grandfathers fought with mine, and we are all responsible for the future of our country.

[@ZedrikVonKatmahl]

The United States is not a nation-state The US is a country comprised of several nations sharing a state

[@johnalden5821]

@@ZedrikVonKatmahl In your view, what are the "several nations"? Just interested.

[@ZedrikVonKatmahl]

@@johnalden5821 The three super nations of Greater Dixie (Greater Virginia, Greater Carolina, Greater Appalachia, Acadia, etc), Extant Yankeedom (New England, Upper Mid-Atlantic, Upper Midwest, West Coast, etc), and the Inner West (Mountain West, South West, Western Plains, etc) There are a few others like the Midlands (upper lower Midwest), American El Norte (Northern Mexicans who ended up on the American side of the border after borders were mangled), South Florida, etc

[@lazymansload520]

32:43 I researched this incident as part of my masters thesis (and probably mention it too much). This was known as the Trent Affair, and it’s as close as the U.K. ever got to entering the war on the south’s side. Two confederate diplomats, named Mason and Slidell, evaded the union blockade to go to London and convince the government of PM Lord Palmerston to provide further aid to the confederacy (the Palmerston government was already providing the confederacy with uniforms, guns, ammunition, and even entire battleships for the confederate navy). Mason and Slidell boarded the British mail carrier RMS Trent in Havana. Though the US navy had been told to give up the search if they boarded a British ship, the USS San Jacinto, under the command of Captain Wilkes, tracked down the Trent, fired two warning shots, boarded the ship, and arrested Mason and Slidell. The news of the Trent Affair outraged the British government. Foreign Secretary Lord John Russell (already a staunch confederate sympathizer) pressured Lord Palmerston to seek a declaration of war against the USA. Palmerston sent an additional ten thousand troops to Canada and issued an ultimatum: Mason and Slidell must be released and sent to Britain or there would be war. President Lincoln disliked Mason and Slidell for being slave owners and, much to the chagrin of Secretary of State William Seward, wanted both men to be hanged. Lincoln brought the matter before his cabinet, and when all the cabinet members said they should give in to the British demands and release the diplomats, Lincoln (to Seward’s significant surprise) agreed. When Seward asked the president why he suddenly changed his mind, Lincoln replied “I found I could not construct an argument that would satisfy my own mind. This told me your ground was the correct one” (further evidence that governance is a lost American art). Mason and Slidell were released from prison and put on a British battleship, and with that, the Trent Affair was over. What I took away from this is that Lincoln was probably better than most of our current leaders, since he was able to say “I was wrong” and change his views.

[@Mkproduction2]

I live in Charleston SC where the Civil War began. I am also the descendent of a Slave and an Irish Indentured servant. That said, there are a couple of important things that were left out. 1. North was given 20 years to get rid of slave, when they did most were NOT freed, but sold to Southern Slave States as they were an extremely valuable asset. John Jay of NY owned and shipped slaves. John Hancock and the Adam's family were invested in building Slave ships. 2. Over 80% of ALL, that's ALL of the US GNP came from the sale of Cotton, tobacco, Rice, Naval Stores(Products made from pine trees). All these goods were produced in South. 3. Most immigrants at that time came to the US through NY and other Northern Cities and this huge labor pool made Slavery not profitable. 4. Southern States like SC were not allowed to ship directly to Europe. Goods had to travel to NYC and other Northern States to be shipped to Europe. This increased production cost and forced a use of cheap labor. 5. The Emancipation Proclamation ONLY freed slaves in the South.(Lincoln had no legal authority to free the slaves in the South, which was a separate Country with its own government, money, army etc. and not under his control). Slavery was still allowed in some states in the North, notably Delaware and Maryland. (Washington DC is between Virginia and Maryland and the Capitol would have been in the Confederacy, if allowances weren't made to allow Slavery to continue during the war.) The 13th amendment actually freed the slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation was issued to try to keep England and Especially France from formally entering the war on the side of the South. It was one of the greatest/most successful political ploys in the History of the world. England and France BOTH still supplied the South with Weapons and built blockade runners to help the South ship Cotton and Tobbacco to Europe. 6. In the South, not only were there a good many "Free Men of Color", Serveral Blacks OWNED SLAVES THEMSELVES. William Ellison was a Major planter and owned around 70 slaves. He supported the Confederacy and gave large donations to the government. The history of slavery in America is much more complicated than most people want to admit. Evil, Evil scourge on the US and the world..

[@seangates1451]

The only thing here is that many northern states had slavery too. They just weren’t economically dependent on them, and there were far fewer. So they weren’t inclined to fight over it.

[@gregweatherup9596]

While not typical, you are right that northern states also had slavery. I have ancestry in both the north and the south. In my genealogy research I haven’t (yet) found any slave owners on the southern side of my family during nor prior to the civil war (just small farmers and laborers), but I have found a slave owner ancestor in colonial New York in the 18th century (and another back in the 17th century albeit on the other side of the Atlantic). What is quite different though was the racial basis, plantations, and “chattel” nature of slavery in the pre-civil war American south (& earlier in the Caribbean) which makes it, in some aspects, disingenuous to compare the two.

[@seangates1451]

@@gregweatherup9596 yeah, as I understand it, northern slavery was more… they were like house servants rather than field laborers. Which is why the north wasn’t economically dependent on them. A wealthy family can hire a butler or whatever. The southern planters couldn’t possibly maintain these humongous plantations by any humane method… and most of them were pretty much bankrupt by this time, to boot. I’m not saying it’s comparable, I’m just tired of it never being mentioned. Like you, I have ancestors on both sides. My mom’s family is a very old Philadelphia family descended of some of the first German immigrants in the 17th century. My dad’s family is Virginian going back to Jamestown. Mostly poor farmers. I did have two great-great-great grandfathers who were in Pickett’s charge.

[@timsuspanic7905]

@@seangates1451 With the coming of mechanization, it's estimated that slavery would not have been financially viable and would have died out naturally before the end of the 1800s anyway. The abolition of slavery was a rallying point in an unpopular war, like fighting Nazism and Fascism during WWII and fighting Communism during the Korean and Vietnam wars.

[@seangates1451]

@@timsuspanic7905 yes! Agreed. The southern planters mostly were in debt up to their eyeballs and were really sliding inexorably toward their ruin. They just didn’t want to lose the south as they knew it, and with all the talk about abolition going around, they had somewhere to put all that fear and anger over losing their way of life.

[@richardbeattie2361]

I can't speak for any American other than myself, but while I do have a generalized love of country over my own state (Florida), there are also MANY times when I much prefer Florida's policies to the country's policies depending on who is in control of Congress. Also, there seems to be a growing division occurring in the US right now. Not as great as it was in the Antebellum era, and not specifically between southern and northern states, but between Red state and Blue states (politically more conservative vs politically more progressive).

[@rhoetusochten4211]

More "rural vs urban" than "red vs blue", but when a state is dominated by its urban centers, it is hard to tell the difference. (From a guy living in the red section of a very blue NY)

[@Ed9870]

Progressive? I don't see a lot of progress in blue states.

[@williambranch4283]

At least three of my ancestors/relatives fought in the Civil War ... Brig General Lawrence Branch CSA, was killed by a Union sharpshooter at Antietam. Another was 2nd Lt Isaac Gaba CSA, who was captured at Ft Donalson early in the war, by Brig General Grant. Grant's quick victory, made my existence possible. People who weren't captured (and early POWs were released on parole) stood a greater chance of eventually being killed, or dying in prison camp. BTW ... Southern rations were peanuts ... called goober peas. General Lee wanted to go to Harrisburg PA (before Gettysburg) to get shoes for his men.

[@kinjiru731]

Looking forward to part 2!

[@wingschick]

With the political atmosphere right now, I definitely feel more loyalty to my state. I feel more like a Michigander than an American.

[@Tribalwings0]

At 24:56 you asked if their was more than one agenda to the civil war other than the start to ending slavery. The answer is yes, although slavery was the biggest issue addressed. Several other agendas lead up to this war. One being the Northern Industrial growth. Essentially Northern states were industrial, meaning instead of working on the family farm they would incentives you to work at a factory. This industrialized peak helped mobilize America for the first World War. The South also had a couple notable agendas one being that property would belong to the owner and not the government. Essentially they didn't want to pay taxes on their property. Believe it or not several countries even to this day have no taxes on property. In the end all wars have more than one agenda. Every soldier has their own reasons to fight. Not all Northerns were out to save the slaves. Not all the Southern soldiers were fighting to keep their slaves. Also just a little side note: both women and children were seen as property at this point. It was not until the 1960s that the women and children's rights movement would take place.

[@Mkproduction2]

You asked about State loyalty... I have 3 tattoos, 2 are state tattoos. 1. Is the Palmetto Tree and Cresent Moon from South Carolinas flag on my left shoulder (upper arm). 2. Dum Spiro Spero tattoed on my left forearm. SC states motto in Latin means, "While I Breathe, I Hope" We fly 2 flags. 1. The US flag. 2. Clemson Tiger Paw flag.

[@mikeroberts2077]

Did you know each state has its own military? Its commanded by the governor of the state. And thenpresident has to ask the governor to use them in the federal military.

[@Dante.-]

All my ancestors since coming to America on the first ships lived and died within 5 states of Ohio, people might not side with their state but they’ll most likely side with their region of America

[@bobsnyder7247]

Since you have seen videos about Arlington Cemetery you should read about the history of the 1,100 acre plantation. It belonged to General Robert E Lee’s wife Mary Custis Lee who was related to Martha and George Washington. The property was confiscated by the federal government illegally and eventually purchased by congress from their son George Washington Custis Lee for $150,000 in 1883.

[@jeffmorse645]

The UK during the early period of the war was exchanging their best weapons and British built ships for Southern cotton and tobacco. It was causing a lot of friction and there was even talk of the North declaring war on them too, but they didn't want to fight a two front war (with the British in Canada). After the war the British actually paid a US claim against them for private (unofficial) support of the Southern states.

[@lightningbug3704]

The whole thing with the cheekbones was a joke about how prominent Lincoln's cheekbones were. If you look at his portraits, you can see where the ridges of his cheek bones are huge

[@Jess-ze7wp]

I’ve lived in the both North and South. I’d say state pride is definitely still stronger than National pride in the South. It’s also being more drawn into political ties as the left and right get further apart. Republicans tend to be more state over country

[@matthewpolmanter8294]

Not true though. I live in the south right now and national pride is definitely higher. There is a lot of pride in each state for sure, but it is definitely not more than national pride

[@gamingtheory6035]

I have zero loyalty to my state of California and the government in Sacramento. My loyalty is with the Union (not the federal government) and the ideals enshrined in our Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence.

[@kentzepick4169]

Yes, do Part 2!!

[@Pete_Finch]

McClellan being a stick figure gets me every time

[@Sarah11596]

I live in Kansas. Grew up here my whole life. 25 years of my life and I STILL cannot tell if John Brown was an ethical man or not. The guy was absolutely brutal, but did it for a good reason. He had a bounty put on his head by the president, but has a giant mural in the state capital. 😂 On the note of loyalty. I am loyal to my state, but I would 100% leave my state if it left the union, without a second thought.

[@stephengrenleski1972]

Also nice to mention, the northern states had slaves as well. They fought the South to free the slaves in the south, but then went back to their homes and their slaves. Even one of the most famous northern general regretted freeing his slaves, saying that "good help was hard to come by".

[@sir_charles_iii5154]

I would love to see your reaction to part 2 :)

[@JPMadden]

1) Most or nearly all Americans are loyal to the nation first. I have found that people who frequently brag about their state often have a political objection to other states for electing politicians they dislike. 2) At 25:30, freed slaves were not held by the Union Army as slaves. They were paid a low wage if they chose to work for the Army. "Held as contraband" meant that the rebellious slaveowners would not be compensated for the slaves. 3) The death of children was ubiquitous before modern medicine and the treatment of drinking water. Abraham Lincoln's wife buried 3 of her 4 children. The wife of the Confederate president buried 5 of her 6 children.

[@Sherlock4Sure]

My father was in the Air Force and we are first and foremost American's!! Our states do mean a lot to us but Lincoln was right, divided we fall! We are seeing that all over again with the huge divide in politics. However, this country has always and I fervently believe will always come together and continue moving forward! Slavery is wrong, always was and it needed to be brought to a decisive end! God bless President Lincoln and his willingness to fight so hard and give his life in the pursuit of righteous cause! I only wish he had lived a long life to see the country change into the vision he fought so hard for! I would've thought that the country would be unable to heal after that fight, but here we are! This just reaffirms my hope that we will do it again! Have a great day guys!

[@ZedrikVonKatmahl]

Lincoln the Tyrant set us on the centralized federal government that is dividing us now And his poking Sumter to start a war to cover for his abhorrent economic plans, which northern newspapers exposed, and he had arrested, and then switching to a slavery focus after the war had been in for a couple years and causing other countries to drop their support for the Confederacy Lincoln started America's bloodiest war over economic greed

[@therambler3055]

Lincoln did not go to war with the south to end slavery. He made that very clear nor did the majority of Republican Party. We just live in a clown world where people literally pick and choose what each side said.

[@kvhvtke1935]

This is how it works with me first I'm more loyal to the Muscogee Creek Nation because that's what I am then Oklahoma then the United States but everybody is different and this is just my opinion which doesn't mean much something else that most people don't know about the Civil War is Native American tribes fought on both sides not all tribes but several tribes fought for the south and the North and sometimes it was the same tribe it divided the people

[@donaldfisher749]

what they don't tell you on here is that Lincoln forced Irish immigrants to be drafted for his Army, 10s of thousands. some whole Battalions were nothing but Irish immigrants

[@johnrogan9729]

Can’t wait for pt 2!

[@josephharrison5639]

Lee, even though he was confederate out of loyalty to his state, was one of the best generals in US history and is one of the few people to have a perfect record at West Point military academy

[@markhamstra1083]

Oh, come on! Lee was not some military genius. In fact, he frequently wasted men and resources that he could not afford to lose. And far from being one of the few in history to graduate West Point with no disciplinary demerits, he was one of five who accomplished that in just his single graduating class. The mythology of Bobby Lee really is over the top.

[@Celestial_Cerulean]

@@markhamstra1083 for real, very spot on. Lee wasn’t some Master of War, his opponents were just that much worse than him. Grant is by far the best general in the war with Sherman and Meade right behind him THEN Jackson THEN lee

[@eagee9253]

Grant a great general???? He had one strategy overwhelm with numbers, thats it his only trick ....it worked dont get me wrong, but a great general? Not even close There were many officers (on both sides) who were strategically way better leaders and planners than Grant ......His own troops called him" The Bloody Anvil" for heavens sake ......

[@markhamstra1083]

@@eagee9253 No, there were other Civil War officers who were equal to or better than Grant tactically. Sherman was Grant’s only strategic peer.

[@TheAngryXenite]

@@eagee9253 Every other general before him had those same numbers, and they couldn't win like he could. I doubt they had a Vicksburg or an Overland Campaign in them either. Grant being a butcher whose only talent was throwing men into the meatgrinder is a part of the revisionist tendencies of Lost Causers, slandering the single greatest commander the Union had to enhance the legend of the Confederacy ("We fought long and hard, but the enemy was simply too numerous for our brave few to best!"). Anyone who actually studies his record admits he was talented.

[@gregoryhaines987]

Yes I care about my state more but love my country. With that said there are 5 states you could not pay me to live in.

[@christophermckinney3924]

Yes do Part 2

[@MiniAngelMom]

I was born in Michigan, but I have lived in Mississippi, and Florida. I have come back to Michigan and have stayed her for life, because it's where I belong, but as far as am I loyal to my state or my country more.......I love my country first and my state second and any American will answer the same except for maybe Texans......