Broken Realms Kragnos Review - Warhammer Weekly 06092021

Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things warhammering. This week we are breaking down all the new reveals from AoS 3.0 and reviewing Broken Realms Kragnos in detail. Let's see what this giant centaur can do!
0:00 News
8:30 Coherency
48:30 Pick of the Week
55:20 Hobby Time
1:04:00 Kragnos Summary
1:24:36 Gloomspite Gitz
1:28:05 Sylvaneth
1:54:23 Slaanesh
2:10:34 Cities of Sigmar
2:22:00 Seraphon
2:30:30 Skaven
2:40:45 Beasts of Chaos
2:45:30 Narrative (Spoilers)
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2+ Tough Narrative: • A Dark Stage is Set: B...

[@patrickdhamilton]

Vince’s smooth brain vs actual unit coherency diagrams were mind blowing and oh so helpful. Thank you for helping us smooth brains😛

[@VinceVenturella]

Always happy to help. :)

[@sirbobulous]

Change to coherency is a thing. I just find it interesting that they went with coherency in this model by model approach again. It's just fiddlier and opens up to the kinds of odd formations as rules requirements. Other games on the market have dealt with the same issue of stringing out models in other ways. Clash of Spears gives a unit a footprint area based on number of models. E.g.: every model must be touching a circle of 4 inches diameter to be in coherency. Flames of War says each team in the unit must be within 6 inches of the leader model. These feel much simpler and the values for the distances for coherency for unit sizes etc. can vary to fit the needs of AoS.

[@chrispalumbo5556]

Yeah, that actually sounds much more preferable to me. Though for now I'll hold out hope to see the full rules of 3.0. Hopefully it's better than it seems

[@Exodiant]

Unit leader method wouldn't work here. They can get sniped by a bunch of abilities, so there's nothing left to be coherent with, unless they go with a "pick another model to count as the leader" method, which is just another small thing to keep track of.

[@Monkeyman12534]

@@chrispalumbo5556 this is GW bruv. We know it wont be lol

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, and those rules actually seem like they would match the intent.

[@BlastastiC]

@@Exodiant most warscrolls in the game use “can be” wording with respect to having one model be a champion. It seems to me they wouldn’t go down that road for that reason - sure you could nominate one, but it introduces bookkeeping to something really fundamental. If everything clearly had a leader and they couldn’t be sniped then I think it would be a good solution though.

[@codybailey1216]

Fun fact, Tyler is actually a commission painters and uses a pseudonym. He is just too overworked so doesn't want to let people know who he really is to avoid his backlog getting out of control.

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh no, you're onto him. ;)

[@jordivermeulen2519]

Not sure if these guys have access to information that has not been released yet, but reading the rules for Unleash Hell it doesn't seem to be restricted based on the distance the unit is charging from. It just needs to be within 9" after the charge is made.

[@davidcampbell558]

Yeah within 9 (not wholly within) after the charge is completed and not needing to be the unit charged makes this command ability pretty terrifying

[@TylerEmerson]

​@@davidcampbell558 Agree. Given the info we've seen to date, it's high among my concerns as well. I think one of the basic acid tests for 3.0 is whether a broad swathe of melee-oriented armies - BoK, Gutbusters, BCR, IJ, Slaanesh, Nurgle, S2D, Fyreslayers, FEC, Syl, NH, SBG et al. - will be roughly as competitive, if not a little more competitive, than ranged-damage-oriented armies.

[@VinceVenturella]

No you are correct, I think that was just a momenary mispeak on their part. You are correct based on what we know.

[@franekwrobel1449]

Good to hear ya folks. We miss Tom.

[@jeremyhauck960]

yeah. but Tyler is doing great

[@dafruk1]

Who?

[@TylerEmerson]

@@jeremyhauck960 Thanks man. I miss Tom as well, though, and look forward to him being back soon.

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh, we'll see him soon enough.

[@PannkakaMedSylt]

Now when we know todays info I guess Coherency makes a little bit more sense. Their point was not only minimising conga lines BUT RATHER their aim was for us to move towards minimum sized units, and then 5 makes sense, as if it was 6 then those slightly bigger models taken as 3 would avoid it while beeing above minimum size. I think they want us to run preferbly max 3Goregruntas, and 3 Varanguard, 5 blood knights, 3 Vargheists and so on. AND those minimum sized Elite units of 3 will feel slightly more usefull too since they'll bump into enemy at minimum size more often too. BUT I agree this is not a super elegant sollution, but I guess with the other changes it hurts less since you'll want to run more MSU anyway. MUCH love for you show as always ^^

[@VinceVenturella]

I suppose, though I still want to have the option to use one of my 4 upgardes to make my 1 unit of 3 pigs 6, or my 3 Crypt Flayers 6 and that feels like it should still be functional. :)

[@beastmendelegate1946]

Your words on Negash pained me but the truth of it is undeniable. And it was a little, cathartic to hear you say it. But listen, the big guy needs us right now more than ever. He’s in a rough place mentally and emotionally, I have it on good authority. So, remember Negash is all and all are one in Negash. If we could all say a prayer, maybe. I know it would help. 🙌💀🙌

[@VinceVenturella]

He even lost his priest keyword, so even he doesn't believe in himself. ;)

[@beastmendelegate1946]

@@VinceVenturella And the hits just keep on comin’.

[@honzatomecek6415]

Amazing show as always!! Thank you all!!

[@VinceVenturella]

Thank you. :)

[@stig78leic]

I like how Slaanesh is escaping piece by piece, maybe eventually you'll be able to collect all of their bits and then put them on the table as Slaanesh Undivided 😯

[@VinceVenturella]

Gotta catch em all.

[@sonofhonor]

You have to assemble all 5 parts of slaanesh and win automatically like Exodia.

[@stig78leic]

My money is on Slaanesh's left Eye being next to break free, followed quickly by their joie de vivre

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

Really good series of books. The biggest problem with the narrative is that if the Kruelboyz and Kragnos don't immediately go and take down Excelsis, Kragnos can pretty much be filed under 'Ineffectual' for the rest of Age of Sigmar. You can fix the story with few changes: -Switch Be'lakor and Kragnos, but keep the Epilogues from Kragnos at the end. -Be'lakor's 1st Act still takes place prior to Kragnos' Release. You can expand on what Alarielle is doing here as well. -Turn Be'lakor's conversation from gloating about what he accomplished vs the Twins into a true lesson for the newborn twins (You can't just walk onto the battlefield and expect the enemy to die. You have to really strike at the heart of the enemy.) By doing this, we've put the true stakes of the Broken Realms Event in the forefront during the climax: Stormcast have lost their plot armor. We make the reintroduction of Grungni as one of the major roleplayers in the narrative (putting Sigmar in the background), and with the destruction of Excelsis, put Kragnos as his primary antagonist. Still a really good series of books, and one in which I hope wipes my headcanon with a grand story (Just gonna say Kruelboyz better make some noize)

[@VinceVenturella]

Interesting suggestions all around.

[@ghostmutton]

The only true way to watch the first 40 minutes of this video is while painting two 12-man units of Ogor Gluttons while crying into your palette.

[@VinceVenturella]

That checks out. :)

[@hobbithubby5076]

And here I am scratching my head wondering how “finest hour” will work for my Nighthaunt? Will I be able to get +1 to my ethereal? I must know!

[@VinceVenturella]

I am guessing it might be less useful for you. ;)

[@ShenanigansFox]

Small point about the gloomspite thing. The way its currently worded you just straight up cant bring back stabbas or shootas with a squig or spider keyword general. It instead says you MUST bring back then others even if say you bring a spidershaman on big spider general with a swarm of grots. You just cant bring them back period.

[@VinceVenturella]

You are absolutely correct.

[@ShenanigansFox]

@@VinceVenturella i wish i wasnt, my poor gsg army cant catch a break :(

[@stevekearns6173]

I know this was a while age but that cohernency was next level awesome. hazar good sir! or good sirs!

[@VinceVenturella]

Thank you kindly!

[@People3004]

Two powerpoints in one episode!??! Vince your spoiling us.

[@VinceVenturella]

Don't get used to it. ;)

[@ProrokLebioda]

Great show! "Kragnos" has nice narrative (watched Doug's video). I don't care as much for rules, haven't played for a while, now I'll "hibernate" longer 'till 3rd ed. I'm finishing up other projects, but my next army are LRL, which means games just got a little bit longer(but so did my reach, those 3'' pikes)... Need to get some movement trays (or sheets of metal since I'm magnetizing my bases). What bothers me the most is "2-5", I'd prefer 2-6, as we have too many 3 model units (perhaps it's intentional to discourage running 6 pigs in a line, etc.). Worst part of this is that you have to create weird formations to maximize output... Azyr Drifto! Perhaps other rules change how units fight (I've heard it's a little bit different in 40k). Still, 25mm bases are strong as ever... I don't like this at all.

[@VinceVenturella]

Agreed on all counts.

[@sonofhonor]

"I thought I unlocked this character" best line for sure.

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad you enjoyed. :)

[@40KWill]

The one thing I truly dislike is the steady drip of partial rules or rules without full context.

[@VinceVenturella]

It's always tough, they want to hype and share stuff, but you need to see the whole puzzle, always a challenge.

[@yetaurm]

i'm a 40k player mostly but that formation explanation by vince was amazingly helpful

[@VinceVenturella]

Awesome, happy to help as always. :)

[@davidblair4356]

If gw doesn't want to give the 40-50mm bases a 2 inch reach, I'm just going to play with a new rule. Madness and mayhem: when these creatures fight, there is no telling where the battle lines are drawn. Units in the second rank are treated as being in the first rank when determining which models are in range of melee attacks. More fighting. More fun.

[@VinceVenturella]

Makes sense to me. :)

[@tgiffin]

Loved the predator reference. Good show as always.

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad you enjoyed it :)

[@woanjinnchong273]

Great review. Hopefully regarding the coherency they put out more info. Not sure if you notice that on the warscroll builder Nagash has Deathlords Wizard Priest - Unique Behemoth. Maybe this might change but Nagash being a god and his own priest is kinda fitting.

[@VinceVenturella]

He lost the priest word in SBG.

[@jimyoyoma8956]

Glad you talked about coherency in depth. It's a bad change imo for all reasons mentioned. Agree it should have been 11+ models or 7+ for cavalry. It's just something where it's going to be so long until they get around to properly rebalancing all these very negatively effected units that it is a huge feels bad change

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, I agree.

[@ssnakeshitful]

I felt the exact same way when I first got to see the warscrolls for the twins, but after some consideration I quite like what Synessa brings for her points. She's fast, she can plink depravity from range, she's a monster *and* a hero, which matters in the new edition. Her spell is actually quite good, as she can stay outside of unbinding range and target priority a linchpin character in your enemy's army. The effect of the spell also lasts until your own hero phase, so your shooting units for example will still get the +1 to hit if they are charged by the hero in question and they use unleash hell. Pavane of Slaanesh with unlimited range is also quite interesting and can be damaging. Think about using it on fast, infuriating characters like Severith. I think she definitely has play for 260 points.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I think the caster has a little play, I just wish Dexcessa didn't have the worst possible number of wounds in the whole game now.

[@ssnakeshitful]

@@VinceVenturella I am totally with you. I was expecting God level scrolls from the twins. I guess the bin guy has something else in mind

[@ericschmitz6789]

No reason to conclude that will not be able to get a 40k type rule just because there are still weapon ranges. They may word it so that a model either has to be within weapon range of an enemy or in base contact with a friendly model that is within weapon range. Or they may word it so that a model may attack if an enemy is with weapon range or is within weapon range of a friendly model that is within weapon range of an enemy. Or they could even leave weapon ranges completely vestigial.

[@VinceVenturella]

I wouldn't hold my breath, it's all I'm saying.

[@XavierArnau399]

Tyler and his Order of Azyr, name a more iconic duo

[@VinceVenturella]

At a loss.

[@arcus9590]

It feels like it's difficult point wise to balance god characters being such singularly powerful pieces. It feels like they're either in auto include territory or competitively unplayable and I think I'd prefer to see Morathi/ Teclis/ Archaon ect relegated to fun lists.

[@VinceVenturella]

Agreed.

[@christopherb1913]

definitely agree with this. Better to make them all narrative choices than sell overcosted Gods who have very bad rules for the sake of everyone getting one

[@MrUnreal9111]

You see maybe this is a topic for another video about textures and how they go together but I am lost how to paint my Kragnos. Mostly because how how would fur on his lower torso interact with his man like body which is painted like this bronze muscles on the box art.

[@VinceVenturella]

Well, one thing you can do is incorporate the colors together. So use a flesh tome as your highlight on the fur and use your fur color as a shadow on the skin. :)

[@simplesmile6984]

this is awesome thank you Vince

[@VinceVenturella]

Thank you, happy to help. :)

[@urs9189]

I love these sorts of rants! :D

[@VinceVenturella]

This was a fun one. :)

[@colonelcabbage]

Instead of triangles you can make lines of 3 models in base to base contact with a 1 inch gap to the next line of 3 models. It’s the same principle as the triangles, but you live pushed the middle point up into the line.

[@VinceVenturella]

Sure, if we're talking a straight line, that only works with 25mm models. :)

[@MyLonelyDeer]

How do I suppose to use my 6/9 man units of endrinriggers after pile in? Like pile in now means I automatically loose a 1/6 models in a unit in the end phase lol

[@VinceVenturella]

Well, I do think pile-in will change, but I also think that units like that are in a TOUGH spot.

[@just_fireball3958]

Vince, you need to count the dwarf on Queek Headtaker's trophy rack

[@VinceVenturella]

I guess that sort of counts. :)

[@TheLagiacrus1]

I'm sad about the new coherency rules because I really like 10 man cavalry units. Also, damn Vince, you've really got it out for Seraphon lol. I can't imagine anyone taking Kroak except for fun as it is and you already want him nerfed again. He'll just die to 5 wounds unless you spend hundreds of points on Guard, and why do that? He ain't Teclis 😆

[@mikefish1124]

Precisely so

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh, I love Seraphon, I just hate Kroak. He's been in basically every winning list and a power piece that has enabled everything. Being generous with the statistics, if he takes 5 wounds, he has about a 10% chance of dying (so it's not nothing, but it's not the likely outcome). Now, if he has some guard around, he has to suffer a LOT of wounds to get to even those 5 wounds. I honestly couldn't see not taking him still, but I play my Seraphon as Thunderlizards and without Kroak, so it's possible I am missing something.

[@TheLagiacrus1]

@@VinceVenturella That's fair. I just don't really see the value in him compared to a regular Slann, when I look from the outside. I think people will plink a few wounds on him as often as they can and eventually he'll roll high on his 3d6. And...of course it's not like the Slann lore is all that good. Maybe it's just that I keep looking at Teclis compared to Kroak. You think I'm looking at it wrong?

[@VinceVenturella]

@@TheLagiacrus1 Well, I think Teclis is powerful, but the points difference is big and Teclis might go up more, I think he can put out the same effect on the battlefield for much less points and likely Teclis is more fragile. That's the challenge. I'll say this, Teclis hasn't shown up in all the winning lists, but Kroak has.

[@mikefish1124]

@@VinceVenturella nonetheless, his new scroll is a noticable step down in effectiveness. You will see far far less of him in the future

[@TheRealThirdME]

@Vince Do you think they switched the Slaanesh twins at birth? Models and descriptions seems mixed.. Dex is somehow less armored, and Syn has a Scourge 🤔

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I think they might have switched their rules with something good as well. ;)

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

Personally I would have liked 11+ to be the cutoff for the coherency.... Just got some Direwolves and I don't see an issue with having 10 of them (or any unit you might have 10 of) in a line

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, it should have been either 7+ or 11+

[@Lebannehn]

1:02:00 THAT is going to the book of grudges

[@VinceVenturella]

I'm in there multiple times, don't worry.

[@kevinengel2134]

I hit like bc of how I feel about the rants.

[@VinceVenturella]

and I apprecaite that. :)

[@buzz0783]

Loved the discussion, loved the books. But, why “Broken Realms”? Which Realms were broken?

[@VinceVenturella]

You're not wrong, I am not sure what actually broke in the end.

[@redsven7624]

Coherency rule to me is bad - not because of what it affects, or x or y specific case but because every rule should have a design intent. It should meet that design intent and not cause unintended consequences. If that is not the case it is a bad rule. The fact we see this issue numerous times just highlights why I do not rate GW rules, I play for other reasons, their process is poor. I deliberately say process because a good process will weed out issues with playtester feedback and design etc. Until an improved process is implemented and owned the inherent inconsistency in output will not be rectified

[@VinceVenturella]

I don't disagree.

[@Redrik666]

Coherency should have been something like you have to be within 1 inch of another model form your unit and 6 inches from your unit commander. Increase the range based upon unit size. Maybe some kind of little rule where if the leader dies you replace another model with it to help with stuff that snipes individual models.

[@VinceVenturella]

That would have made sense.

[@Redrik666]

And now we find out you can only take units at their minimum size unless their battleline. So now we know their dumb coherency rule doesn't really matter after all. XD

[@VinceVenturella]

@@Redrik666 Not exactly correct. It was up to 2x min for non-BL and 3x min for BL (4 total across army)

[@Monkeyman12534]

Why would they fix the coherency rule when they can slowly increase ranges in each army book and charge you for them?

[@VinceVenturella]

That's maybe a little conspiracy-esque, I would say because they do know they have to keep their customers somewhat happy and their game functional. ;)

[@corbingovers7559]

my only list that I'm a bit apprehensive with the coherancy changes is my OBR "All the Pretty Horses" Kavalos heavy list as it had 2 units of 10 deathriders, so those will be units of 5 now. But the coherancy changes didn't break 40k, it's not going to break AoS. (my 100 clan rat skaven list is largely fine, even better now that I can hide warpfire throwers in the clan rat units making the throwers actually good)

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I agree, Skaven are actually primed to be incredible in the new edition. This is the age of the rat. :)

[@Exodiant]

Guy, c'mon. The W clearly stands for Warhammer.

[@VinceVenturella]

Of course!

[@ruleofkoolwargaming4926]

If you think you’re going 5-0 with Maws of Jork…. The Jorks on you….😏

[@VinceVenturella]

Nailed it. :)

[@Puppetmasterish]

GW has got to stop it with the daemon mortal split. I hate so much that it's a nonbo in every single chaos army to have mortals led by a greater daemon. What is the point of that? Some things sure, but why does it have to be EVERY rule.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I don't disagree. :)

[@mtuktuk9627]

Jack needs to stop looking better every time...you make me feel horrible about my Corona-Belly man....🤣

[@TylerEmerson]

Right?!?!

[@VinceVenturella]

I know right.

[@chrispalumbo5556]

I agree with wanting meta narrative to match up with gameplay, if possible. In the same way though I'm also just a little concerned that if we don't see more rules realted to this coherency or piling in, that this will encourage players to make crazy and ridiculous formations with models facing all different ways, which would just completely break the narrative for me. If half of your opponents cav unit is riding towards you backwards or sideways, just because their player wants to maximise them. I'm still hopeful and waiting for the full rules before I get ahead of myself, but we'll have to see.

[@VinceVenturella]

Indeed, I am afraid you will be right.

[@kangtheknightx]

Kroak's not going to show up in as many lists as before, as it should be. Gives me more reason to run my Slann with two usable rerolls in casting/dispels/counterspells with +3 to cast. He's pointed fine as a better Slann. I wish this had actually given them reason to give us a more killy Temple Guard scroll. Or an Eternity Warden rewrite. Just completely forgotten about entirely though. Instead we get a new Kroak (happy), Bound Nagashi spells (wut), A useless battalion that isn't even good in 2.0 (sad) and little else. It's more than some got, but damn if it doesn't feel like missed opportunities.

[@VinceVenturella]

Others have said the same, not sure I see it, but I suppose time will tell and I am happy to eat crow. :)

[@kopfnussklopfer8679]

Do people play great alliance? I never even thought about that, thought this was more an old thing.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, I know several people who still just use grand alliances. :)

[@davidcampbell558]

The "suicide line" doesn't break if you're Horrors of Tzeentch :^)

[@VinceVenturella]

It's a good point, so the Horrors can still daisy chain everywhere, which is...great.

[@davidcampbell558]

@@VinceVenturella I'm starting to wonder if Tzeentch himself wrote the AoS 3 rules...

[@GenJacoty]

Since they claim they have playtesters now, do seriously none of them ever inform them about base sizes being an issue? Do they seriously just not know that 32mm bases just make a unit flat out weaker than 25?

[@VinceVenturella]

Well, I am sure many playtesters point things out, but remember, it's ultimately GW making all final calls.

[@bobvanemmerik4378]

Gw is totally trolling vince with the slaanesh twins scrolls.🤣🤣🤣

[@VinceVenturella]

Clearly. :)

[@Aki777craft]

Bruh jack looks great

[@VinceVenturella]

I'm sayin!

[@davidcampbell621]

I did not enjoy kragnos' narrative specifically (present narrative, not his backstory). The rest of it was fine. For being the titular character he wasn't actually required to make the story work. He only does 2 things: fight gordrakk, and break down the walls of excelsis. The godrakk fight was fun character writing (bigteef was the mvp) but godrakk got jobbed and his spotlight stolen. This was only necessary because gordrakk and kragnos needed to coexist. Breaking the gates was only necessary because the long hanging plot thread of hammergords' skull which was specifically called out by skragrott as being an important artifact of prophecy near the start of the book did nothing and exploded. So really the only thing Kragnos did was something the story had already accounted for in forbidden power He didn't need to be here and his introduction to the story was coincidence (he was in gordrakks path). This could've been easily wrapped up and tied together if they just had gordrakk use his battering ram on kragnos' prison. Kragnos also isn't different enough from gordrakk/grimgor/ghazkul for my liking, it makes the shift in leadership feel shallow? Like it's just to sell a model or have it not be an orc. The ways in which he differs are also things that chaos is known for, like hatred, resentment, being genocidal, etc (which certainly doesnt help the BoC resemblence). My overall view on the book is that its lazy. The kragnos narrative feels lazy to me, as does many of the new rules (gitz was literally reprints), and the models are pointed like they couldn't be bothered to playtest them. (I'm with Rob on things being pointed for aos3 is lazy, how hard is it to just have updated points for these guys in the ghb that releases with the rulebook)

[@VinceVenturella]

All fair. Now on the repoint for AoS 3, I get it. Change is scary and they want to cause as little tumult as they can. If they pointed something at X and then 2 months later (or 1 month) changed it UP, more people would complain.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

I think that the most annoying part of the coherency rule is that I’m basically being forced to run the new stormcast, and I really don’t want to get them, so SCE seems to be getting another rough edition unless I give GW all my money for the new models

[@VinceVenturella]

I don't get that, I am not saying you're wrong, I am just not understanding the connection.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

@@VinceVenturella basically because most SCE have 40mm bases with 1” reach, I’m assuming the spearmen are going to have 2”, that couple with the fact that they are probably going to receive all the attention for a while means that they are going to be the best option to run for SCE

[@sgtbenton8518]

I own three Doomflayers 😄

[@VinceVenturella]

So not 4. ;)

[@ssnakeshitful]

I like that Jack confirmed there's more to this coherency decision. That put my mind to rest a bit. As it stands right now I think it's absolutely obnoxious and unnecessary. If they will not change attack ranges I think this is a huge mistake.

[@VinceVenturella]

I'm not sure Jack confirmed anything, so be careful there. We hope they change the range of the 40/50mm monsters, but we don't know that.

[@dannythompson5506]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@VinceVenturella]

:)

[@jahpocalypse]

tokyo drifting gore gruntaz ftw

[@VinceVenturella]

You're going to see a lot of drifting wolves as well. ;)

[@Phalanx167]

So GW's answer to unit coherence on large based units is don't bring them lol. That's kind of what reinforcement points are telling me to do. Stick to lots of MSU. Got mixed feelings about that. 4 reinforcements feels a little low for 2k.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I'm not sure, honestly, it all depends on if they also change some min unit sizes. Lots of armies I run don't even upgrade 2 units beyond min, but it's because of the vast differences in unit mins/maxs.

[@Phalanx167]

@@VinceVenturella Yea, I expect many units in my Nighthaunt army will be moving up to 10 minimum since it would be hard to run an army full of 1 wound, 5 man units.

[@nealbiederman4664]

Uhhh...Yeah,the white reaper title could have real world consequences now a days 🤔.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, that just feels...off.

[@mikefish1124]

That you can look at the Kroak war scroll and legitimately think "WOW! This guy is way tougher now!"... seriously calls me to question your judgement of basically everything in life - not just AoS related issues.

[@VinceVenturella]

Hey, if im wrong, I'll fess up on that one. Maybe I'm misreading, but hewas always taken with Guard before, his basic offensive capability remains (or is slightly increased with the casting buff), he was basically in every winning seraphon list. If he disappears, I will own that. But to me, you take him and the guard and he is pretty immortal and can actually push in pretty easily. BUt what do you think I am missing?

[@mikefish1124]

@@VinceVenturella so I had a multi-paragraph response written, and then just accidentally clicked on a link, and lost the whole post. I suppose that I don't care enough about the topic responding to retype the whole damn thing again. I'll try and get back to it later, I guess - sorry

[@koencambre7215]

Concerning coherency... I've seen people online trying to make weird battle formations (assuming your opponent sets up in a straight line) to maximize the attacks. They all look way worse than any congaline ever did. These new coherency rules would only push the game away from close combat with bigger units, although I'm still holding out that reach could be how far you have to be from friendly models within 0.5" of an enemy to strike in combat as well... ala 40k. I am really hoping the combat is reworked too, because this is a death sentence for monsterous infantry unless they really limit how many units you can have more than minimum size of. I addition... I don't want to frigging micromanage the formations of my models like that. it sounds like a HORRIBLE game mechanic. I know you are trying your best to show ways that this new rule is not always horrible... But let's be brutally honest here: this game already has a quite mediocre ruleset compared to other games out there, but it does have the visuals down to perfection. These rules even screw that part up with all those "stupid formations" of cavalry advancing sideways.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath on the 40k attack thing, I really wouldn't.

[@koencambre7215]

@@VinceVenturella no, it's just hope.... Because ridiculously looking combat formations and micro managing formations to a millimeter sounds like horrible gameplay... And the AoS scene is bleeding out enough as it is around here without that sort of stuff.

[@CinderfallGaming]

Poor Wild Riders..... they are still paying for the sins of 8th edition

[@VinceVenturella]

You're not wrong, great example.

[@CinderfallGaming]

@@VinceVenturella I did many bad things with them back in the day……

[@StrengthHammer]

I

[@VinceVenturella]

Total Package.

[@Redrik666]

What I'm excited about: Lots of new command abilities / units being able to use CA on themselves. What I'm not excited about is those god awful coherency rules though... big yikes on that one.

[@VinceVenturella]

Sounds about right.

[@richardhellsten2771]

14:40 "set them up as 3 rows of ten". Good point, maybe we could switch to a different base shape to make this easier, might I suggest squres?

[@VinceVenturella]

Pass. ;)

[@luxuriasmodeus500]

God it's always so insulting when everyone is always so negative about the models I find most appealing, and then it's even further insulting when unfortunately the fools are right. I don't think people can say that games workshop is trying to push new models on us because they have better rules than previous when every time they make new slaanesh models they're actively worse. I'm still just astonished when the new book came out with a whole range of new miniatures at the same time the dok book came out with one new model and the points were just ridiculous nobody is going to play the new stuff and me who really wants to more than anything can't because I just get stomped. Kind of sorry to ramble, just something I've been thinking about since the new book came out.

[@VinceVenturella]

Perfectly fair and I understand. :)

[@gtmerchant1935]

Oh yeah, these Witch Hunter duo are getting proxied the heck out of them by the numerous Mordheim witch hunters in my collection. Not that the models aren't good, I'm just not in the market for more overpriced plastic single hero kits.

[@VinceVenturella]

Seems fair.

[@Praaguematic]

Can you do show on the terrible Black Library AoS books and how to fix them? I just love how bad they are. It all reads like AI generated fanfic.

[@TrippyTheShroom]

I'll be honest I've debated on buying a few but haven't purely because I hear generally bad reviews.

[@VinceVenturella]

Well, likely not as that would mean I would have to read them, and that's a problem. ;)

[@niilofriden4465]

.

[@VinceVenturella]

:)

[@kalzacreations]

As soon as I saw the new unit coherency rules I knew it was a mistake! I thought I’ll be the only one to think like so tho! I guess we all agree conga lines are stupid in 40k but in AOS they add a cool dimension to the game that 40k will never have due to the differences in their combat systems. I big NO from me! Let’s hope they pedal back this decision in 4.0 or GHB 2022

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I think it really is a solution looking for a problem. Like we have all seen a series of conga lines that are silly, but this just doesn't even really address that.