BALL CHANGE OR MOVE IN?? | Managing Transition

[@tonyneuman1500]

I know I will sound like “Old Man Yells at Cloud” here, but as someone who coaches high school bowling, I think the ball changes are out of control, and that many bowlers, especially younger bowlers, would be better served by learning more shot versatility vs throwing one bad shot and changing balls. There is also something I always ask my bowlers which is “Be honest, was that result from a bad reaction, or bad shot?” When they change balls off a bad shit, it ends up making issues worse more often than not.

[@brunsnick]

Yes that’s important to never adjust off a bad shot. They have to learn accountability first to really understand that. And I’m all for adjusting with the ball you started with, but in this scenario, the ZigZag was better after moving into more oil.

[@CliftonDon74]

I agree. Folks shouldn't change balls off a bad shot. I spent many years with bringing only 2 balls, my strike ball and my spare ball. Then I got a 3 ball bag and added a 2nd ball. One solid and 1 pearl, spare ball. How many moves and bad leaves should you sustain in a 3 game set before changing balls? If you are trying to maintain a +200 avg, one can't afford not to change balls after a failed move.

[@hersheyskwertz9315]

As long as you’re not one of those that believes all balls do the same thing then I understand where you’re coming from. Some people around here spray and pray all over the lane and think they need to make a ball change. However, I would not encourage someone to use a ball that’s designed to be strong and smooth like the purple hammer to play with open angles nor would I encourage someone to throw something angular like the violent collision straight. You’re really fighting the design of the ball and making the task at hand more difficult on yourself. I don’t believe you’re saying that but I know of people that do this to their students.

[@The300Show]

As important as versatility is, why handicap yourself if you have the equipment to make the correct changes? Changing balls seems to be the right move on house shots when you start seeing a bigger ball roll out. Super important to watch the way the ball goes through the pins in order to judge this correctly like Nick highlighted at the end of the video. As has been stated in past replies, never adjust off of a bad shot. Speaking as someone who bowled at a high level in college, that never leads to good results.

[@christopherwilson7004]

I like to switch to balls with weaker cores so it stores a bit more energy on the back ends. I'll go my Rattler At box and switch to Purple reactive at 3000

[@AlShaw-d7i]

Truly amazing i started on wood lanes 40 years ago not a lot of ball choices so we had to learn how to bowl moving you feet...changing angles ...hand positions etc. I quit bowling for 12 years. Just started back and i find it whimsical to see bowlers walk in with at least 6 balls to bowl on house shot....it's rather comical and sad at the same time....i see guys with mediocre fundamentals throw bad shots for 3 frames and then change balls...but every ball they bring in hooks...i understand that on synthetic lanes the back end and mid lane reaction is different from wood but my goodness make a decent shot or 2 before switching balls

[@TGator0321]

Admittedly, I'm one of those lol. Took some learning for sure and still learning for whatever it's worth. I try to determine if it was me or the ball and the only time I switch is if it's clearly the ball OR I'm shooting so bad it doesn't matter. 😂

[@lastuberman]

Things have changed. A lot more oil and a lot more transition. I miss those simpler days.

[@squidly2112]

YES ! .. YES !! .. Managing Transition !!! .. THIS is EXACTLY the kind of information I need to learn. EXACTLY this! .. Thank you so much Nick !!! .. Gim'me more !!! 🙂

[@nevinkinzel]

As a speed-dominant lefty that is less comfortable moving in, I change balls. Typically, I start with the C300 Savage and may move in up to 5 boards but generally not more than 3. Then I switch to either Storm Nova or Phaze4 playing the same line but I move up to slow my speed, gradually moving back to my starting point. If/When carry-down finally comes into play, I'll ball back up to the Savage. Chris Barnes talks about transition on house shots being different than sport patterns because of the carry-down. So balling up is often the way to go. I have to say I've certainly seen it work for me.

[@seanwillis8483]

Lefty's don't have to deal with this as much because there are very few. They are mostly playing on fresh oil.

[@jimeckerson6937]

Nick. Typically I start with an asym (Brutal Collision) and when the transition hits I’ll go with a symm (Bigfoot hybrid) and keep the same line on a house shot, until I get my Violent Collision and see how that does. For Challenge and Sport shots I’ll chase the oil if it’s a high volume pattern. For low volume I’ll make changes according to the diff of the ball.

[@manuelfvacas]

Great topic! As someone who has a big disparity from game to game, where I can throw a 240 in game 1 and then a 140 in game 3, I appreciate the insight and suggestions. I will definitely keep your insights in consideration during my next practice sessions to see if it helps with adapting better to lane breakdowns

[@ObjectiveEthics]

Nice to know I am not the only person who really struggles with consistency. I have been bowling for about one year now and I was chasing my first 600 series forever. I remember a night where I threw a 248 game one, 239 game two and a 110 game three for a 597! Aaaaargh 😠 😡 😤

[@corphs1329]

these types of scores are probably only possible on a easy house shot that transitions weird, or maybe bad mental game

[@coreymadigan8394]

Inconsistent spare shooting. 140 is a lot of missed spares. If you were leaving splits then you should have made a huge adjustment straight away.

[@seanliff2505]

Absolutely great video. I had this problem last week and bowled horribly. I thought I was in far enough, but maybe I could have pushed left further. Low rev bowler and medium speed. I find myself in odd situations because of this. However, this video makes a lot more sense.

[@michaeljavier2678]

Aloha another great informative post. Adding to my saved list to share with Shop patrons. Much Mahalo.

[@brunsnick]

Awesome thank you! Glad you think it’ll help!

[@jefferyboring4410]

@@brunsnickI don’t see the transition. I throw fast with 360 grit . I see the opposite my ball wears out . Pls sell me a OG conspiracy pls 16lbs I’ll pay.

[@denmanfite3156]

Have a feeling that the best answer is it depends on you and the ball you selected to begin with. A ball may not be able to make the turn, you may not be able to make the physical adjustments to rotation or rev needed to get it back to the pocket. These things will weigh into if it makesmore sense to change ball or just move.

[@surfacetension]

For me, I move when I lose the pocket. Indicators of losing the pocket are trip 4 (the host's second shot in this video) or solid 8 or 9 usually indicate that's about to happen, so move when you see those pins are the last ones standing and you made a good shot. I will change balls when the oil calls for it -- such as my ball isn't getting into the roll phase, or if I'm leaving solid 10-pins and none of my hand position or foot position (moving forward or backward on the approach about 1/2 shoe length) adjustments are getting me carry.

[@TheBlueBunnyKen]

I recently bowled on lanes that haven't been oiled since probably the previous day and I just went directly for a ball change. Worked out well for me

[@TheBlueBunnyKen]

I throw a couple shots with my main ball first and if I am no satisfied with the ball reaction I change balls

[@tracewilson7216]

As someone who throws old-ass equipment (Zone and Thunderbolt) and would like to throw even older equipment (Turbo X, my fave ball ever), this is quality content. Knowing your feet & eyes is great, and knowing when you're just fighting the lane is sage.

[@flippperboy]

BrunsNick! This is great. Can you bowl with 5 people, some 2 handers and some one handers and see what you can succeed when heads starts getting burned. Thanks!

[@joelosurdo4858]

Great video Nick! It's amazing how may bowlers will not move their feet and target when transition happens. Some will move but they will walk back to the right and can't understand why their ball went high on the nose. The Zig Zag looks good in the transition!! I will have mine today for this same scenario.

[@kimjones3298]

Thank you for this video. I am so glad that it came up on my feed. Because this is what happened to me last night. Watching this video will help my game immensely. thank you very very much.

[@brunsnick]

Hope so!

[@CliftonDon74]

Great video, Brunsnick! It is always the question every time we bowl. Knowing when to make a move or a ball change is what separates a good bowler from a great bowler. I usually switch balls to get a better shape into the pocket that will carry. I rarely miss the pocket in a 3 game league or in a 9 game tournament. I will switch balls to try and keep my strike string going. I wouldn't bring multiple balls if I didn't intend to use them.

[@brunsnick]

Eventually you will figure out what works best and then rely on that experience. That’s how you get really good at this.

[@mikewrobel2881]

​@brunsnick you showed 2 asyms with similar specs. Will the next move be to another asym with higher RG? Do you have a scenario when you might change from an asym to a symm or vice versa?

[@CliftonDon74]

@brunsnick i agree. Some folks ask why I would change balls off a strike, but I'm just trying to stay ahead of the transition to avoid the dreaded 7 - 9 split.

[@brunsnick]

@@mikewrobel2881 the next step down would be to symmetrical pearls/hybrids most likely to lengthen the hook window and make it more controllable.

[@jfabritz]

It's like you were watching me play last Tuesday! Took too many frames to figure out how to deal with the transition properly, but eventually figured it out.

[@justinc5998]

Great vid Nick!!...though changing balls and especially moving in are rare occurrences for us that bowl on the left!! 🤣

[@brunsnick]

Totally understand and jealous! Haha

[@dcrepitmoose]

Recently bowled in a league where they oiled the lanes nearly 2 hours before league start. By the time we started practice, the line I typically start with didn't just go high, it crossed and clipped the left side of the 2 (righty here). That got me curious about differences in ball reaction between lanes that were oiled but sat for a bit vs actual freshly oiled lanes.

[@CKBowling1]

We have this problem in one of my leagues. Practice at 650, they oil 430. 🤦‍♂️

[@ObjectiveEthics]

This is a great video. An instruction video from the mastermind Brunsnick is guaranteed to make me a better bowler. Knowledge = power.

[@brunsnick]

Higher scores or your uhh money back? 😁😎

[@ALFAJERKBFH]

I'll tell you what. Last league night the lanes were so dry I ended up bowling straight and beat the other people who stayed with the hook. I was the only one who bowled with consistency. Gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes. Toss pride aside.

[@StephRenee812]

Thays our lanes for the past 3 weeks sucks

[@squidly2112]

Thanks NIck! .. Happy Holidays!! .. your videos are helping me a LOT! .. I subbed for a league team last night, playing on fresh lanes but right after a sport pattern regional tournament, hence the oil pattern, even though a house pattern, was very tricky. There was a lot of carry down oil left still and the lanes transitioned kind of crazy. I was able to throw my Proton Physix for first 2 games and moved to my Zen Master the last game. Went 194, 171, 207 .. which is pretty good for me, but excellent considering the lane conditions. We stomped our opponents by almost 100 pins a game. I have to credit you for some of the knowledge that is helping me to get there. I actually read the lane conditions pretty darned well. The only thing that kept me back from even better scores was execution, I'm just not consistent enough but improving every week. Thanks again Nick! .. and I hope you have the most wonderful holidays !!!

[@brunsnick]

Thank you for that! With time and practice comes better consistency! 👍🏻

[@squidly2112]

@@brunsnick - You are helping me a LOT !!! .. thank you!

[@The300Show]

My philosophy has always been to chase it in until you start to see the bigger balls quit in the middle of the lane. Once that happens it’s then a ball change to something more responsive.

[@novinnovations4026]

This is the answer

[@jdnance168]

Exactly my play. Gotta know your equipment, be honest with yourself on shot making, and not be trigger happy to switch! But when it pukes, get another ball 😊

[@michaelstetzer3144]

Enjoyed this informative video. I’ve been struggling and don’t have effective methods to adjust when the lane breaks down. I have moved and changed balls, but still have challenges.

[@rbd6661]

I literally have this problem. I don’t know how to transition. Great content!

[@dawmlw]

Excellent discussion of the primary issue we face every league night.

[@TerrySwanson-f6l]

I’m a new bowler and I watch your videos religiously. I have learned a bunch from watching you ! Thanks and keep it up👍

[@mindchime]

I use one ball for my first shot, a second ball for my spare. That's it. Never had more than 2. I started bowling in the 80's, so you learned to adjust your approach speed, your ball speed and your line according to the oil pattern on the wood lanes. My average today on these synthetic lanes is 227 and with only ever using 2 balls and my strategy.

[@brunsnick]

Sweet! But the game has changed if you’re bowling longer format tournaments. One ball isn’t going to cut it unless you’re lefty with a Purple Hammer. 👍🏻

[@Lifter4Life]

Great video Nick! This really helped me thanks 🙏

[@dejabowler873]

can you do this for a flat pattern or a short one?

[@scottcampbell2585]

Did you have the ball drilled with finger weight or thumb weight? Some houses have different conditions in the winter hot and cold. 1999 blue Pearl hammer high average of 211 . Auto-hooks work differently depending on a dictionary of conditions.

[@brunsnick]

Static weights mean nothing for performance.

[@hersheyskwertz9315]

I kind of wanted to challenge myself tonight. We have a team with 4 lefties. Other 3 like to play in between 2nd and 3rd arrow and I wanted to see how long I could keep myself left of the second arrow before I had to jump over to 3rd arrow to avoid their traffic and find fresh oil. Aiming right around 7 to 5 down lane. Anyways, my adjustment was just same ball and increased ball speed throughout the 3 games. Starting around 16 mph and ended my night around 17.8-18. Kind of a poopy set (216-225-225) but it was a fun little challenge for myself. Channeling in my Norm Duke/ Mika Koivuniemi tonight.

[@AndrewWarrenPatriotsfan]

I think it all depends on the ball or the lane your using. For me with the Black Widow Pink Urethane when the oil transitioned, I can move left or go right and have my speed slow down I have no problems.

[@nordattack]

I am a Classic 1960's Full Roller. Very low revs (135 rpms) and slower ball speed (12-13 mph) My ball goes straight. I can't move in because if I throw right the ball goes right and stays right. So I ball down and stay in the zone that is most beneficial for my style and guess what, sometimes I really ball down move even further outside.

[@charlesgabriel8535]

Great job Nick! Some great stuff in there 🍻

[@davidbeckwith2403]

I bowl in a mixed league with all types of bowlers and balls ranging from straight bowlers with plastic balls to power players hooking the lane with reactive. Typically, the first transition is oil starts to push down the lane making the back ends tight. This can happen as early as the middle of the first game. So for me, the first move IS OUTSIDE for a starfighter path to the pocket. This may work for a game or so or it may only work for a couple of frames. But sooner or later the ball will read too early just like you demonstrated. Our house shot has a lot of oil in the middle of the lane which, for me, makes it verry difficult to move in. I have a big hooking solid ball that when it was new had a pretty good look for me inside, but 6 months later, not so much. I know I need to practice inside, but do I need a new ball?

[@jwjohnson4366]

A good cleaning by your local pro shop may be all you need

[@malana2009]

Hey BrunsNick, Can you put the lane layout in each of your videos, please? It would grant us an even more intuitive inside aspect as to the ball being used, it's motion the lane conditions, etc. Thank You and keep up the great work. Also love the compilation with THE HYPE, hopefully, more to come.

[@chompskii9866]

Nick, love your videos man. I think you're one of the best bowling KZbinrs around. Fun to listen to and you're a great bowler, so I trust your advice! Thanks for the work you do. Do you like the ZigZag? It's on my list. Cheers!

[@brunsnick]

ZigZag is growing on me, it changes direction very quick so it’s fun to get left and wheel it.

[@Dhamp]

Awesome video for dealing with lanes breaking down! However, at my house where I bowl league, the opposite happens, carry-down. We have fairly high oil volume and a lot of straight bowlers, and all the oil gets pushed down and your ball stops hooking half way thru game 2 it seems. I usually move in and slow down to compensate but then start leaving corner pins. Any suggestions or a video on oil carry down would be helpful, as I'm sure others struggle with this same issue.

[@ripvanrevs]

You can always move right a little bit if you still have oil in the front part of the lane there. At some point, you might get so far right the ball hooks immediately. Frankie Lavoie was just talking about this in a video that when he used to throw the weaker urethane balls, he would inch right a little as the carry down occurred. Years ago I bowled in a league where this happened. I had to keep moving right the first 1.5 games and then start moving back left to finish.

[@Bradon881]

Nice video. Would love to watch more!

[@FreakAnator_]

Gonna try alot of this in friday in league for started off well tonight but 3rd game ended witha 151 cause trying to hard and couldn't see adjustments I needed to make so hope your tips help me improve more... I'm a 180 to 200 average bowler so hope to keep my games up...

[@SirJoelsuf1]

10:45 Since when was 325 RPMs (what I think Nick's RPMs are) considered "high RPMs?" Could have just stayed exactly where he was at, threw it a little harder, lofted it a bit, boom. Easy money. No move or ball change necessary. If you have less than 400 RPMs, you can just stay in an aggressive(ish) ball and throw it harder. Alright, might have to loft it a bit, but still. Better than risking an over/under reaction just because you don't have the RPMs to get through the hold.

[@brunsnick]

Can’t do that forever. And for the few frames it might work, the field will have moved another arrow or two left leaving you in no man’s land without a major jump.

[@stompingpeak2043]

Once it gets super dry I'll just square up more and throw it harder/straighter. Typically works on the house shot that's toasted

[@rondockery8056]

I used that thought process last night during league and it work perfectly. I changed balls on the 2nd game. I shot a 644 but I missed 3 10 pins and I was in the pocket all night but that's a different video.

[@brunsnick]

Great job, Ron!

[@happybowler]

This video is gold sir!

[@mattyhayes3201]

Noice!! I needed this vid. New bowler learning how to move in. I just bought a BW 3.0, first and only ball, absolutely love it!! but I'm having trouble moving in when it starts hooking early. The ultimate goal is to keep practicing and be able to go coast to coast with the 3.0 and get all the babes. In the Meantime, if you read this and have a minute to make a 36 year old boys dream come true, I need 3 things - 1.) The way you break things down is friggin awesome so a video that focuses on how you approach aiming and visualization of the shot, tips and tricks for moving in with an aggressive ball, that sort of thing. 2.) A shiney ball recommendation I can use as a step down from the 3.0 to work on my transition mechanics and feel without feeling like I'm forcing it. 3.) Babes. Thanks man - have a good weekend!

[@brunsnick]

I’ll work on 1 👍🏻 Check out something like Hazmat for a good step down from 3.0. Keep working on that game and the hunnies will flock. 😎

[@mattyhayes3201]

@@brunsnick Noice!!!

[@shinobiassault2338]

Question. Whats the difference of doing a resurface of blackwidow hybrid compound vs polish? I cant really find any info on the difference on the 2. I know it uses the compound out of box but whats the difference

[@brunsnick]

Compound = more hook, Polish = more skid

[@joehoenig7596]

As usual, great vid, Nick and thank you for addressing this topic, which we all struggle with. As I followed along with your adjustment thought process, a few questions came to mind: First, I think we have all learned the hard way that a shinier ball is by no means a "weaker" ball, and can actually back end even more, with greater responsiveness to friction, as you mentioned with the Zig Zag. Knowing this, was there a reason why you chose the Zig Zag as your ball change option, rather than a truly "weak" ball, such a Brunswick Twist? Second, you started with a strong assym solid--The Hitter. What if you had instead started with a sym solid that would be even smoother, or what if your move off The Hitter checking up, was to move to a sym solid at that point, rather than to the Zig Zag? Third, you mentioned the importance of not wasting frames while figuring out the move. This is where I get often stuck: I know there is no hard and fast rule as far as how many frames you use to determine other adjustments (e.g., angle, speed, axis rotation, hand/finger/wrist position) versus ball change, but what is your limit? Fourth, and we saw this when you moved inside with both balls, you were able to get both the Hitter and the Zig Zag to strike, although the way they went through the pins was clearly different. In that situation, which ball would you recommend using? The Hitter because with encountering more oil inside, a smoother response is easier to judge and adjust off of, than the more violent response of the Zig Zag, or is the thinking just the opposite, that precisely because you moved inside, into more oil, we need the faster and greater response of the Zig Zag? Fifth, I've often heard the advice that when moving inside, into the oil, adding axis rotation is an adjustment that can help the ball recover even though it's "in the oil." For example, I wonder if The Hitter would have gone through the pins better, from inside, if you had done this. Have you tried this adjustment and if so, what is your take on it? Sixth, and this is a topic several other folks have mentioned in their comments, like it or not, ball changes are a viable adjustment in the so-called "modern" game. Yes, with practice and skill, there are other adjustments that can and do work well, but having more than one strike and one spare ball, even for house shots, definitely gives a bowler more options. But, when you bring a bunch of balls to league, for example, it can be way too easy to only focus on ball changes as your main or even only adjustment, rather than utilizing ball changes as one type of adjustment, and to also get confused and lost in the "D'oh, what ball should I use now?" headspace, even assuming your know your bag and have a decent idea abotu arsenal sequencing. In this vid, what made you immediately try a ball change to the Zig Zag, rather than immediately moving inside with The Hitter? Did you do this just for illustration purposes, for this vid, to show what a different ball might do, or is this the first adjustment you would typically make? Seventh and last, you started this vid with the all-important question of whether a bowler, seeing their ball check up and go high, should seek to stay put and use whatever adjustments they can to do so, or to change balls. To me, there should be a follow-up question: If I cannot adjust to stay put, should I move inside with the same ball and see if that works better, should I move inside and only change balls if moving inside with my original ball doesn't work, or should I BOTH move inside and make a ball change immediately? I feel that this returns to the issue of not wasting frames while you are attempting your best guess at the correct adjustment: On the one hand you don't want to change two variables--zone change AND ball change at once, because if you do, how do you which of the two changes was the answer? But on the other hand, if you first move inside with The Hitter, for example, and it either worked ok or not at all, and then you changed balls, you have now taken two frames instead of what could have been answered in one frame. Again, I know there is no clear-cut rule here, but what is your philosophy about this? Thanks as always, for reading my essay! 🙂

[@brunsnick]

1. You need to follow your arsenal step downs, so that's why you don't just go from a Hitter to Twist. That's an easy way to get lost because where do you go from there if Twist isn't the one? 2. Only had a limited few balls for a scenario here. The point was, I'm lined up with a ball and now the look is going away. 3. 2 shots on any given lane to make verify what I'm seeing and to make the move/ball change. 4. You typically want the ball you can control more and easier to get down the lane without jumping. You're trying to find some oil in the front before hitting friction. 5. If you can do it consistenly sure. I usually increase axis rotation, lower speed and increase rev rate as I move deeper inside. Especially if it's a bigger move. 6. Unless you're bowling for big money in league, best to just bring 3 balls max including your spare ball. Mini arsenals, limit options, focus on execution and adjustments. 7. You typically ALWAYS want to move in as they dry up. You'd have to really get the ball speed and loft up to stay in the same spot. Move in and find area throwing it to the friction. So many scenarios, and you have to rely on experience and successes. You also have to know your equipment and what it will do so you don't waste frames in that manner as well. My first move here would be with the Hitter and keep chasing it in even more keeping the ball in play. Avoid the blow up frames and you're fine. Can't strike every shot but you can keep from making bonehead shots and paying the price. Just commit and go.

[@tomatojuice984]

Would have liked to have seen a few more ball options. Like a ball that actually hooks less would have been nice. Also some hand position adjustments. Sometimes I'll just move one left and come straight up the back and that'll usually keep me in that spot for a whole game or so. Then i wait for the others to burn out the track take the same ball I'm throwing move just left of where they are and throw right with more hand angle. Thus avoiding the transition entirely.

[@ScottyThompson-lt7wl]

Cool video talk tech bowling ball

[@scottythompson940]

Cool video talk tech bowling bowling ball

[@TraumaRider]

Thanks for the tips.

[@StephRenee812]

I have been using one ball Zen Soul and it is the first ball I bought. I wanted to be more competitive. We started league this year and about 2 weeks in i bought it. First fingertip, I realize i have so much to learn. I'm finally understanding ball motion. I want to buy mkre bowling balls but i haven't a clue what I should buy, that's my struggle oh I have radical outer limits went to use for the first time and the vise it interchangeable just spins in the hole. I tried everything and can't get it out. 😢 now to knkw where to put feet, where to move and or look. Bowling is hardbut im up for the challenge..

[@codyjames1158]

With the newer balls, I'd say the move wouldn't be to move right. Vintage balls allow me to move right and carry though. So sometimes I'll move right and use my Ebonite Total NV or Ebonite V2 Sweet and I can stay right while everyone else is moving left.

[@unclejoe5541]

are many times when I've moved left, up, left & up, scuffled with pin carry only to find out 2 or 3 frames before league is over that moving back right anywhere from 8-10 boards and completely changing the line was the move...just way too late, lol. Even more times when just moving back right 3-4 boards has worked out.

[@jl4560]

I know this is an older video but I have a question. What if you had 2 of the same ball one pin-up and one pin down. Could that be a good adjustment?

[@brunsnick]

Could be yes but if the cover strength is too much, you’ll still need to move in.

[@jl4560]

Ok, thanks

[@deanchamp]

Another first transition scenario for you: everyone is bowling down 10 board with polished balls on a fresh 44' pattern with a trashed track (old lanes). They push oil downlane at the breakpoint, but there is also a lack of oil in the heads, which dry out quick.

[@brunsnick]

Polished balls on 44’? Seems unlikely, even on wood.

[@deanchamp]

@@brunsnick Seniors... not elite pros

[@CrazyBaker1969]

What about moving forward or backward in your approach. I never see enough content about this topic. When they dry out I typically start by moving forward at the beginning of my approach. My next move is to move left and just from there?

[@brunsnick]

It can work, but if you move up or back and still end up sliding the same distance behind the foul line and your speed didn’t change, then it’s a pointless adjustment.

[@daflyinhawaiian2]

When you say two with your eyes, are you saying that if you were targeting the second arrow, now you are targeting the 12 board?

[@brunsnick]

Yes that is correct.

[@thebigeasy8609]

Hardest worker at Brunswick! What is transition, I'm left handed? I think the most I may move is 3 boards right but hypothetically if I did have to manage transition I would first move a few boards right with the same ball and if that didn't work ball down. Good stuff Nick and thanks.

[@markmatroni631]

I stay w same ball and move in till I flat 10, then ball change. Through Atlas all 3 games last night, moved 8 left total but didn’t lose carry.

[@dustinroberson1865]

I only use one ball with a core. As the lanes break down, I have to move. This video makes me feel a little better about having an aggressive ball. Typically if I see myself coming in just a little high and a good ball, I move one board right and keep my same mark. Normally that works perfect. As it breaks down more, then I will move another board and start moving my mark. Luckily the league I'm currently in has a lot of lower end bowlers that throw straight balls, or really low revs and the lanes don't break down very fast. In most games, I move a total of two boards by the end of the third game. Love watching your videos though. I've always been a decent bowler but didn't know anything very deep into bowling. Hoping that learning the nuances will improve my game and push me into the 200+ average.

[@dustinroberson1865]

To add to this, a few years ago, one of the leagues I was in was very competitive and had many high rev bowlers. I always had issues in the late second and third game because it was difficult to transition that far across the lane. I start with my right foot 1 board right of the second dot from the left and aim at the second arrow from the right. Back then, by the end of the night I was up against the ball return on the one lane throwing at the gutter hoping that I didn't juice it and push it through and into the gutter.

[@jarrodpeck1895]

When you pick up ball speed do you muscle your ball, lift it higher, or what? Sometimes I try to pick up speed but don't seem to have the same control.

[@brunsnick]

I try to accelerate my feet to get my speed up. Try not to muscle your swing.

[@zjbell700]

Do you or did you used to run the pro shop at Matador Bowl in Northridge, CA?

[@brunsnick]

I did for a short while from 2008-2010.

[@zjbell700]

@@brunsnick thought you looked familiar

[@mireally]

Why not move right and use something like the Sneak Attack Solid or the Tundra Fire - especially after game one of a three-game league night set? Just curious?

[@brunsnick]

You can certainly try it but you generally never move right because you’ll lose your hold to the left with the burn left of you.

[@mireally]

@@brunsnick - I'm a Senior lefty with a lower rev rate (around 225-250), so for me getting too far right causes me to leave corner pins because the bigger balls (i.e. Track Paragon or Paragon Hybrid) I have run out of energy. So my go-to move is to use either my Columbia 300 Beast Hybrid or Track Tundra Fire and move way left and play between the gutter and first arrow and use all the friction a house shot affords me. Playing deep(er) is not my strong suit unfortunately so I have to resort to "Straighter is Greater" when the lanes are hooking and use a weaker ball.

[@heftygainz]

So my question for other high revs guys, how do you keep moving in when the ball return is in the way? Its so hard for me to stand in front of it with like 2 steps, so i end up changing balls. Curious what others do?

[@brunsnick]

You’ll need to practice walking around it usually starting with your 2nd or 3rd step.

[@daviddeiss7907]

So, in your scenario you move in, and it looks better but you are the only one on the lane, you can find fresh oil but, in the scenario, when I bowl in league, I feel that I can't find fresh oil and I'm moving left right into the old track that the guy with more revs has just trashed and now I'm right on top of an area that has no oil for a good skid faze of ball motion and if I move even farther left to try and find good oil then I'm usually forced right next to the ball return and unable to go as far left on the right side of the pair of lanes that I need to. so, then what do you think the next move should be? I have toyed around with lofting the ball and that looks good for a couple of shots but then it goes away quickly, and I feel like I need to loft it even farther down lane, but I can only loft so far. I've seen the pros get in front of the ball return and then they move more left but when I try that my ball speed goes down dramatically, and I have to go even farther left but then I feel like I'm too far left, and that scenario makes me way uncomfortable. I'm to the point that what I think I really need to do is just go buy a really weak entry ball like a rhino or twist and just start firing it up the five board. I know I'll lose a lot of entry angel and probably be shooting at a lot of ten pins but o'well that's just the way it is, at least I think I can put myself in a position to shoot a 200 game that is if I can stay clean with no splits.

[@brunsnick]

If it’s that dry and you’re moving into the higher rev player track, more speed may be the answer along with some lower flaring equipment.

[@daviddeiss7907]

Okay and when you say lower flaring equipment do you mean a ball with less differential ? Or maybe a weak layout? I really need to figure this out my first game in league is usually the highest scoring game and the second game right at my average but it's the third game I'm having trouble with. If there are two or three guys with high revs they change the lanes so much, it's hard to figure out what to do and I struggle to score well on that third game. If you have any advice I'll take it

[@brunsnick]

@@daviddeiss7907 yes, lower flaring. 👍🏻 and probably cleaner cover than what you started with.

[@daviddeiss7907]

I have a request, could you do a video on what a fallback shot is ? How to visualize it and line up to play that type of shot. I have heard the term fallback shot but never have I seen someone explain it. I have a feeling I could use that kind of shot, that would be killer.

[@randomphonevideos]

If you could get 7 other bowlers to shoot with you for 3 games on a pair and simulate a league night with the same video topic it could be interesting too

[@skizilla]

That's actually an amazing idea for a video, especially if you had bowlers with distinctly different shot shapes, types of balls, right of left handed follow each bowlers thought process through out the night.

[@Mike-zj5ww]

That's exactly what I am thinking. How can this accurately track oil breakdown when it is only one bowler maybe a games worth of balls.

[@harveywarne9030]

One adjustment few people mention is moving your target up the lane. Any reason for that?

[@brunsnick]

Helps trigger more ball speed maybe moving your eyes down lane. I just used my legs for that and keep my eyes the same.

[@robreels3065]

I’d say for a future video switching out of urethane on a short pattern. I get lost in that when the urethane starts to do the wrong thing.

[@brunsnick]

Great idea for the series!

[@ACsGarage-e9r]

just curious whats the purpose of the finger holes being out of line and one having a insert and other doesnt ?

[@brunsnick]

Sarge Easter Grip - welcome to the channel, be sure to subscribe! kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6mbeWqDnth9o9Usi=1cgH_YN8l4198NzG kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnLFd3aGqdZ3Y5osi=JXJ6Qx5Ym5zbyIDK

[@jimnewton5904]

I start with an asym solid, results usually, then go to a pearl katana legend, some point second game I am forced into an intel short pin and then in last game again forced into a sneak attack or twist, I'm almost 70 and speed increases are tough for me, I am around 14 mph

[@guezwho67]

Hey Nick, I'm a lower rev bowler, and I have trouble moving in due to my rev rate and being able to get the ball to return to the pocket. I typically change balls to a weaker piece. Any idea what else I could try?

[@brunsnick]

Try to increase speed some. 👍🏻

[@peterthebowler]

Are you adding some rotation as you move in too?

[@brunsnick]

Usually more axis rotation yes as you move in. If you can increase your rev rate some that’s a good idea as well.

[@mikewrobel2881]

Part 2 - arsenal building? Part 3 - balling up vs balling down?

[@donreinholz8121]

How iften do you have the ball reconditioned to remove oil?

[@brunsnick]

@@donreinholz8121 every 50 games or so for oil extraction.

[@JonnLewiss]

Nick you say never move right as lanes break down, I have to bowlers, higher average than myself, when I move left at a particular house, they tell me you should have moved right. obviously they see something different than me, to say that..........rather than going into lot of details here asking question, is there ever a time when the lanes shot breaks down that you want to move right? They explaned it to me, it is condition that exist at only this one house, not all the others in town.

[@brunsnick]

Maybe you started too far left to begin?

[@jerryczzowitz3384]

As an ex bowler In his late 50's I can tell you this, with how it seems with most lane conditions and today's players hitting around the ball it favors moving inside, if you are low rev and stay behind the ball at release [ is there anyone who plays that way anymore? ] that favors changing balls and staying put as long as you can. Last thing a low rev/ hand behind the ball release player wants is to have to move inside of 3rd arrow. You won't have near the carry % as the high rev/hand around the ball guys. You also have to be careful if you go more ball speed, if that doesn't work and you need to move in it is very difficult to change your tempo from throwing harder and then try to slow back down. So usually if you go more ball speed you are committed to that. Also, don't know if this old school tip is still relevant today, but if you are getting great ball reaction with just a tad of too much jump at the break point try putting your fingers in just a tad below the crease in your finger, that will help tame the jump on the backend [ this assumes your finger holes are big enough to do this ]

[@SirJoelsuf1]

Um, no. Most bowlers who have low RPM rates are on the side of the ball. Take a look at any given bowler with less than 375 RPMs and they're almost on top of the ball. Axis tilt approaching the 90s. It's the ones who have higher RPM rates who stay behind it. EJ Tackett has an RPM rate approaching the 500s. His axis tilt? 30 degrees at MOST. Weber? His RPM rate is about 350, axis tilt 60 to 90 degrees. And "too much jump at the break" isn't "great ball reaction." It means your ball is burning up.

[@jerryczzowitz3384]

@@SirJoelsuf1 They are behind it until the release point where they snap the wrist through and around , they don't stay behind the ball all the ways through. I'm talking about guys who have more end over end rotation. Like I said I haven't bowled in years , so I don't know if anyone does that anymore. Jumping at the break just means too much too soon, I was just offering a tip to tame that a little and get the ball a pinch further down the lane.

[@JoshEsquibel-x3g]

In this situation, would it be a good move to break out the urethane ball and stay right?

[@brunsnick]

Typically if you didn’t start with urethane, you don’t go to urethane.

[@SSA-de4py]

I know maybe this is a 'given' for more advanced players, but, are you talking a 3/2 move with your feet/at the arrows? What if a guy spots before or after the arrows or even downlane? It's hard for that terminology to cover all methods of targeting so we just translated to at the arrows from now on? Next you should clarify that ball speed being off your hand because I'm timing it with a stopwatch and there's no way you're throwing 17.4 down lane. So on our local rangefinders radar equivalents equivalent (taken down lane) do we subtract 2.5 mph off of your speed so we know what we're dealing with with? Maybe you should publish both off/hand and down lane (even if one speed is approximate) numbers on speeds so it is clear right from the get-go.

[@brunsnick]

3/2 is universal, first number is the move with the feet and the 2nd is the move with the eyes. Doesn’t matter where you spot. Arrows, dots, etc. And yes, I post launch speed. In full reviews, I post launch speed and entry speed to show the difference and make it easier for those who are trying to compare it to what their scoring monitors at home might say. 2.5 mph isn’t enough to calculate your launch speed, it’s more like 20%.

[@reaperk69]

I throw a Black widow 2.0, hammer epidemic and the New Blue. I run into the issue where at the beginning of league night with good amount of oil my widow is great. As the night goes on it becomes very strong on the back end. And missing the head pin at times, I usually stop through my widow once I’m 2 boards left of the last arrow with my feet. That’s when I switch but by that point my epidemic and even sometimes my New blue react just as hard. Would that be with the way I throw the ball or more so how it’s need drilled?

[@brunsnick]

If you’re missing the headpin, then it’s likely user error. Especially if you were striking.

[@aMindOnceExpanded]

What on earth are those finger holes!? That is an absolutely wild lay out

[@brunsnick]

Sarge Easter Grip - welcome to the channel, be sure to subscribe! kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6mbeWqDnth9o9Usi=1cgH_YN8l4198NzG kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnLFd3aGqdZ3Y5osi=JXJ6Qx5Ym5zbyIDK

[@juggernaut0629]

Ball change. Moving deeper will only leave corners and combinations of pins in back row. Or change your tilt, or target further down lane.

[@mattvongruben]

This whole video looks like my league play last night. Back & forth, searching, not really finding any definitive answers....crappy night 😂

[@mikewrobel2881]

If you expect transition to occur at least twice, assuming typical league with house shot, how many balls do you bring?

[@brunsnick]

Depends how competitive the league is. I usually never bring more than 3 into bowling. I typically try to use the same ball all night where I bowl to see if I can do it but sometimes I’ll change balls. (I bowl on old wood, it’s more of a recreation league)

[@mikewrobel2881]

How about changing hand position / release?

[@brunsnick]

Could work!

[@mikewrobel2881]

I continue to struggle game 3. I begin with my weakest ball. By game 3, moving in results in weak 7 pins (lefty). Next try will be pin down layout.

[@michaelfinley9988]

Could you ball down even more with like a Tundra Fire and play the track area?

[@leesoulivanh]

excellent info... 👍👍

[@brandondriley]

That hitter looks so 🔥

[@jdnance168]

Topic aside, your carry is no bueno on lane 2 😂 Great video and info as always!

[@larrylacroix3944]

What about low rev low speed player. There are times when I want to move in and throw to same target yet guys on my team say go to a pearl symmetrical and sometimes I do that and get frustrated. Last night stayed with tour dynamic x all three games and in third game made a 5and 2 move and shot 190 in third 172 in second with two missed spares and had a 207 in first game no missed spares for a 569 series which has been two years to shoot that series usually around 500 for three games

[@brunsnick]

Lower flaring control balls will be your friend to stay in the same zone. 👍🏻 Experiment with adding ball speed to stay in the same zone longer as they dry up.

[@mariansowinski8967]

​​@@brunsnickAny examples of those types of balls come to mind?

[@ronniehamrick54]

Congratulations 10k NU Blue Hammer to the rescue its perfect when my Widow Ghost and Widow 2.0 Hybrid are done

[@randykline2575]

If lanes are dry what’s the correct ball to use.

[@brunsnick]

Choose the ball that gets down the lane long enough but still finishes hard enough to get through the pins.

[@jcavender00]

Carry down from plastic and/or urethane can definitely necessitate a move right ;)

[@brianschumaker5912]

What about trying a urethane ball and going straight down the 10 board?

[@FredSoDak]

Very informative. Have you considered doing some House of Pain vids?

[@brunsnick]

Absolutely. Just a little different logistic wise to get in there and film.

[@curtokay8046]

what if there is no oil line ?

[@mikewrobel2881]

How about changing to Scorpion low flare?

[@brunsnick]

Wasn’t out at the time of filming.

[@mikewrobel2881]

@@brunsnick Understood. Do you think changing to Scorpion low flare would have been a good option, allowing you to keep the same line?

[@brunsnick]

@@mikewrobel2881 still think you need to move in some. Changing balls won’t put the oil back onto the front part of the lane.

[@mikewrobel2881]

@brunsnick Recently I heard commentors asking about plans for high RG low diff balls. I did read about the Counter Attack. Can would recommend a ball whose core can be drilled pin down to significantly lower the differential? I am looking for a 14lb ball to go very long, cover a few boards side to side, but not hit flat.

[@brunsnick]

If you can find one of those still sure. If not, Purple Hammer Reactive or Teal Rhino Pro are the picks. Drilling pin down will pretty much neuter the track flare and you’ll have to play straight on drier lanes for it to still hit.

[@Jarhead0331]

How do you get all them data points?

[@brunsnick]

We have SPECTO ball tracking

[@Jarhead0331]

@@brunsnickcan anyone get that or is that just at an alley? Any apps worth having for data? Thanks

[@brunsnick]

No, the center needs to have SPECTO installed to get that data. Not many do.

[@ComradeJehannum]

This should be good. But My problem is that the league I bowl in NEVER has fresh oil. So I generally have to look at the scores from the last league the night before which DOES ALWAYS get fresh oil and work out WTAF I can do. Plus, I only have 1 ball, I don't have the funds to have multiple balls to swap to.