Budget Drivetrains & Inverted Forks | 2023 Sea Otter Classic

Another day at Sea Otter, another round of new products. Dario checks out the latest budget drivetrain, another inverted fork and one very nice prototype downhill bike.
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[@dylan-5287]

Box prime 9 looks great but $600 is steep. Microshift advent x is less than $200. Hard to justify 3x the price. And if you are paying that much then you may as well just do eagle or shimano 12sp.

[@mikeytek]

For ebikes 12 speed is overkill and a ton of snapped chains. Less gears and stronger chains makes more sense.

[@dylan-5287]

@@mikeytek I don't have any experience with ebikes but totally agree on the increased durability of 9/10sp. Plus the tolerances aren't as tight so it's easier to set up well. I've got advent og and advent x on hardtails and sram eagle on my FS. Eagle is just so smooth which keeps me sticking with it. With advent it's slower and you have to do a harder push. Eagle is so fast and snappy, barely takes any pressure and shifts immediately. Ideally I'd do 9sp with 11-52t but nothing shifts quite like eagle. The decreased life of chains and components does suck though. Although I've heard if you ball out for the expensive xo1 chain it lasts longer than literally anything else in the market according to testing.

[@asifitmatters1]

I love how so many of these brands are solving problems that no one knew existed!

[@silver_c1oud]

I wish They all will solve 1 main and common problem in Biking... "Ridiculous Prices"

[@zwingler]

If no one knew they existed, are they really problems then ?

[@streddaz]

@@silver_c1oud they do. Just buy the low spec bikes💁‍♂️

[@JoshuaTootell]

Totally unfair that I can't afford a Ferrari. I demand that they lower their prices ​@@streddaz !

[@thelittleewokboss9929]

@@streddaz still like 3-4k

[@dfpguitar]

$680 for a 9 speed setup is hardly low budget.

[@STEVEWONDA1976]

I don't get it either. I recently spent $605 shipped for a full SLX M7100 12s groupset including same series crank, BB and brakes with ice tech rotors & pads.

[@brothertoflame]

Sram XO1 is 580 euro for cassette, rd, shifter and chain rn. The choice is obvious

[@driftadvocate1839]

yeah maybe he got that $$ wrong?

[@Wheelsanstuff]

680 including the one piece machined cassette I guess? Which is basically the cost of a high end sram cassette 😂

[@sapinva]

Microshift

[@TheJayhawk4]

We love Dario!

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

If the disk is putting shear force on the bolts, the bolts are not tightened enough. Also, having that extra steel part in no way changes anything about the 6 bolt interface fundamentally.. I really don't see why having two interfaces is better than one, just buy the correct hub for the disks you want to run.

[@DemonicVelocity]

Well as an industrial mechanic, we would have to use pins and bolts to make sure no sheer forces go through the screws. So I get the argument.

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

@@DemonicVelocity Why pins? If you tighten the 6 bolts properly, shear forces are taken up by the friction between the surfaces.

[@DemonicVelocity]

@@Finnspin_unicycles because straight pins are made to counteract shear forces and are pressed in allowing for zero play. I get your point and the relatively small amounts of forces in cycling are okay with that, but from an engineering standpoint it would be a necessity to use pins. A mechanically perfect brake rotor would have pins with a tight fit that go directly into the hub.

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

@@DemonicVelocity You should read up on how bolted connections are engineered properly. (VDI 2230 for example) It doesn't matter if it's a bike disk rotor, flywheel on a car or a massive bridge, there is no need for pins to avoid shear forces. If it's designed properly, the preload of the bolt produces enough friction to take up shear forces, while the bolt itself only sees tension.

[@mtbboy1993]

3:09 Fun fact: Manitou did cutout crowns on older XC forks. So this is not new, but these are trise the length.

[@fowoow]

I might be wrong, but isn't gx or xt full groupset(including cranks) like 400-600, why would someone get a 9 speed groupset that has no cranks included for 680?

[@boostaddict_]

XT is similar pricing to this new Prime 9 drivetrain, because it's their top tier version. The 3 Prime 9 groupset is only around $200. The $600 version is like buying the Box equivalent of XTR.

[@olshamus]

Possible weight savings, better mud clearance, longer chain life due to a burlier chain. But I agree, the price-point really misses the mark.

[@Ivory_Mist]

The new Prime 9 drivetrain looks interesting, but I'm curious as to what has changed since the current iteration. I use the full Box Two Prime 9 setup and have no issues with it, but I don't see how it can change much from generation to generation. While the highest tier will always feel better and be lighter, I'm more interested in the mid-range and what it will have to offer.

[@laurynasjagelo5075]

stiff shifter, poor reliability, ergonomics, price etc.

[@lenolenoleno]

Clutch also sucked.

[@mikeytek]

​@@laurynasjagelo5075 shifter felt like a XTR. For ebikes you don't need 12 speed. 9 gears and stronger chain

[@Ivory_Mist]

@@lenolenoleno Yeah that’s a fair assessment. Having an easy to operate lockout on the clutch would be… clutch. Probably the only thing I dislike about my drivetrain.

[@maxbucky24]

Best wishes for Henry. Great vid Dario

[@rudiger86]

Who is Henry?

[@alldecentnamestaken]

“To everyone who wants things to go to 20mm, sorry to all 10 of you.” 😂

[@lejendpolevault5345]

Henry secretly watching the London marathon with a box of popcorn and a pack of revals.

[@tommanseau6277]

I owned a bike I put a Halson Inverson PDS fork on. My friend still owns it. Still works great. It's one of the best forks of that era of the RS Mag 20, Judy, and Manitou, actually better than all of them right down to the Marzochi Bomber Z series. Dead simple to maintain by disassembling a few screws, removing gaiters, wiping down and regreasing. That's it. Takes 15-20 minutes. Inverted forks vs non isn't the issue, proper design is.

[@adamsatur7277]

Great idea on that hub with convertible rotor flanges. Good job, Project321!

[@Polemicist_]

Looks like a must have. But I'd have to stick with Onyx for the internals.

[@mulullama]

​@@Polemicist_ you are the first person I've seen bragging about the reliability of onyx internals

[@BlueGoose2]

Great vid Dario… don’t let them take your conscience lol. Hope Henry feels better, tell him to use sunscreen That hub is sweet and one really expensive 9spd w/o a crank

[@mtbboy1993]

1:51 Here are my concerns. But did they get rid of the useless plastic bushings that wore out in about 70km? Those were issues Is the RD actually optimized for the claimed cassette size? BOX One X-wide was not, claimed 50TT but really guide pulley was too far back. A way to turn off the clutch for wheel removal? I see they went for a complete redesign. I am curious how the shifters perform, I've been told people had issues with the shifters breaking. So hope these last.

[@bk83082]

9 speed cassette, chain, derailleur and shifter for nearly $700? The title of this video has "budget drivetrains" in it. That's double what the same pieces of 12s XT would cost. 11s Deore is under $200 for those parts. Is the price wrong or is the title of the video wrong?

[@Durwood71]

Yes, I was trying to figure out what was "budget" about that drive train.

[@MrFreerideForever]

Thanks for your apologies to those of us who are smart enough to realize the superiority of the 20 mm standard that already existed first instead of the dumb 15 mm one that came later because the entire MTB industry is a corrupt gimmick mill. Despite the dumb axle, that fork is 🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙. 👊

[@df0rce]

That CenterLock adapter is indeed very cool. Wish it would be possible to use it on any hub.

[@kaltonian]

liking the flange system on the hubs,

[@0danfinn]

Gotta go listen to some Portugal, The Man after watching this.

[@danielvelasquez7708]

I have wondered if the Box One Prime 9 cassette remains sold out on their website.

[@sdq605]

Danger Darioooo!

[@Eric.V.]

Does anyone actually have trouble with their rotor bolts coming loose?

[@Durwood71]

In the intensive care unit for a _sunburn?_ That must be one hell of a sunburn!

[@stuartdownes7312]

Mad dogs and Englishmen...

[@Durwood71]

@@stuartdownes7312 ICU is for people with life threatening illness or injury. Was he really in that bad of shape just from a sun burn? Or was saying he was in the ICU just a joke?

[@JoshuaTootell]

California is dangerous to Brits

[@jamiehamilton3253]

Dario's brain scan is a worthy addition to ChatGPT 🤯 😅

[@TundeEszlari]

Good content.

[@alexh.4068]

9 or 10 speed is enough! Thank you.

[@rudiger86]

not for someone like me, I need the 12 gears to even get up the hill

[@alexh.4068]

@@rudiger86 it still has the same range.. just cuts out a few intermediate gears

[@rudiger86]

@@alexh.4068 but why did i struggle on a 9 speed bike and then I got a 12 speed and I smashed up the hill

[@alexh.4068]

@@rudiger86 other 9 speed didn’t have the range, eg 52 lowest gear

[@alexh.4068]

51

[@ftrujillomunizaga]

I would swap my 1x12 SRAM SX for that 9 speed box anyday

[@brothertoflame]

Microshift advent or advent x.

[@athishmarutharaj6001]

How, he put so much sunscreen on!

[@tonn333]

Maybe that’s it?

[@athishmarutharaj6001]

@@tonn333 hmmmm

[@lucashrabal4953]

Oh no Henry noo!

[@georgeforeman89]

$680? I can order a SRAM GX 12 speed groupset for $587 off Jenson right now. $680 is ridiculous for a dang 9-speed drivetrain. Like, who is the target market for that? Maybe BOX spent a little too much time thinking if they COULD rather than if they SHOULD.

[@Realisy]

That chain cover.. I thought dr.dre dropped a drivetrain…

[@nobrakes7247]

11 of us.

[@lagwall]

The inverted fork will always have the same flaw. The very sensitive part of the fork is open to getting destroyed on the trail by being too close to obstacles on the ground.

[@billryan8721]

Gotta disagree on that one. Moto has been running them for how long?

[@bobsaget3841]

So each time you change the rotor from center lock to 6 bolt you will likely need to recenter your brake caliper? Guess we will see, probably only a concern for the minority of riders who change rotors a lot.

[@IliaFomin-k2s]

This guy rocks!

[@qualm43]

another Sea Otter Classic, another year without a bluetooth internally shifting rear hub.

[@lukasrobinson5586]

There is one! GMBN has a video on it I think

[@justdude8115]

I don't get it, why you didn't show budget drivetrains?

[@NDemanuele1]

Why are all bike manufacturers pushing DH bikes this year?

[@sapinva]

And the Budget Drivetrains?

[@DrCrimp-sg5pb]

Nothing more logical than USD forks

[@noobwithawheel4323]

MX has run upside down forks for years. MTB is just starting to catch up.

[@JonnyNorthmore]

They've been tried in the MTB world many times. The problem was that they would twist and flex too much. They could solve that of course but it meant the forks would be incredibly heavy. Not such a problem in MX since you have an engine.

[@mathieusynnott8915]

Why not QR20 boost?

[@mazditzo]

680$ for 9 speed? you can get full shimano deore 11 speed plus brakes for less

[@justinh7099]

Best presenter ever! Brain scan determined Dario is a potato

[@alexh.4068]

Wait that’s a budget drive train? $650? lol

[@Durwood71]

That's "budget" for a dentist.

[@asdasdasdasd-si2gw]

I miss Henry

[@ODPTV1]

Unless you're doing xc 9 speed wide range is all you need in my opinion. Anything more is just marketing to get you to spend money on the "high end" product

[@topchoice1621]

I’m waiting for a mountain bike with no pedals and chains ⛓️ once they come out with those I’ll be impressed

[@beenop420]

inverted forks will never be cool

[@YippeeSkippie426]

Drivetrains have become completely absurd. In an effort to be relevant, manufacturers are answering questions which no-one asked. That cassette is particularly ridiculous, and they're getting worse all of the time.

[@hightower2537]

he is soo much better than Henry

[@Rickie-37]

o

[@jasonkroll2735]

Flanged hubs are so out of date. If you're not doing Str8 pull ,then you're a full.

[@cancer8343]

jBend is ok, easier to build, why fix what is not broken :)

[@strokenumber3]

Rude = convicted doper.