My Theater Room Has A BIG PROBLEM... Will A 3rd Sub Fix IT? Krix 7.2.6 \\ Klipsch R12 SWi

[@BuildMontage]

💬 Join The Discussion on Discord - discord.gg/wvtvkaP

[@daxtonsamir9583]

Dont know if you guys gives a shit but if you are bored like me during the covid times then you can stream pretty much all the latest series on instaflixxer. I've been streaming with my gf for the last couple of weeks xD

[@jedidiahwesley8522]

@Daxton Samir yea, I have been using instaflixxer for since november myself :)

[@TerminatorJuice]

My room is a rectangle and it's still very bass challenged, so don't feel too bad Tony. Anyway, I first tried my sub in the front soundstage but the bass would hit about 1-2 meters behind my couch, so I did the "sub crawl" and found that the back left corner was the ONLY location where I could hear any decent bass in my room... A few times in the past 10 years I tried adding a second sub(which only hurt the overall bass in my room) and also re-did the sub crawl multiple times, but I always get the same result of the back left corner being the sweet spot and a single sub is ideal for my setup... So long story short I just had to stop listening to the "pros" about how 1 sub isn't enough to achieve good bass, and just trust my findings with the single sub delivering the best results for my room.

[@BuildMontage]

I agree. I know there’s going to be a bunch of experts telling me things from the vid, but I like experimenting and learning and I only made this video once I was confident I had the issue in hand. The third sub I believe will make a big difference.

[@SpecOfTech]

Great video Tony, I like the format on this one and the chill feel. Thanks for the shoutout to my buddy lol, I guess I am a slight basshead. Looking forward to you getting that third subwoofer. I think maybe, just maybe the bass fever is getting you...maybe just a little? Can't wait for you to get your first 24" ;P.

[@BuildMontage]

HAHA!!! Yes my friend, it was a more free flowing video, just spoke from the heart and explained the situation as best I could openly, honestly, warts and all! And I doubt I'd ever get a 24" subwoofer - hmm... or maybe.... hmm...

[@SpecOfTech]

@@BuildMontage I'll keep working on you, I am relentless ;P...one day! If nothing else you have to come to Canada and listen to mine, those are the options ;)!

[@BuildMontage]

@@SpecOfTech hell yes!!

[@nigelstead7496]

Get tweaking with rew and that mini dsp, that little machine is amazing once you learn how to use rew with it, I think it's home theater guru's site on KZbin that walks you through the whole setup process, we did this at my friend's house who bought another sub to compensate for his single sub, the measurements in rew show you the problems in your room which we learnt as we were following the tutorial the end result was a very impressive chest slam from his subs hole to see you give it a try with your 3 subs and make your own video on it keep up the the great vids👍

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks, all the feedback I’ve had convinced me. I actually watched Youthman do it with Steve’s help aaages ago and I’m convinced. Just have to get the bee sub in and get to calibrating.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Digital EQ won't do anything for nulls. They can do wonders for humps or peaks, though.

[@BuildMontage]

@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt that’s why I now have a third sub!

[@myhometheater7029]

I had the exact same problem. Center seat was null! I could stand up and bass, I would sit down , null! I considered moving my chairs but I didn’t want to do that! But when I added those 2 chase ss18.2 subs it took care of my problem. So for my room the 4 klipsch subs wasn’t enough. Now I can go anywhere in the room and it’s bass, there’s no null positions . Great video tony and I’m glad you getting things worked out.

[@BuildMontage]

Amazing you had the same issue! Are you in a square room too?

[@myhometheater7029]

@@BuildMontage no sir. It’s 24’ long 15.3’ wide 10.5’ ceiling. I was just null at my center seat. I could not figure it out. The mini dsp helped but didn’t fix until I added the big subs.

[@BuildMontage]

@@myhometheater7029 yes I know the third sub will make a huge difference because I’ve tried it out but haven’t calibrated with minidsp yet either. Thanks for sharing Chris :)

[@danielwander605]

Before adding a 3rd sub it’s probably best to make sure the two you have are set up properly. Get a measurement microphone, with REW and the minidsp go to work. It could just be an issue of cancellation and then by adding the right delays you’ll fix that up. Then you can EQ them together and probably get great results. No issue adding a 3rd sub though. I have 4. But adding it without proper delay, levels and EQ will just lead to not great sounding bass. Home Theater Gurus videos on all this are so incredibly helpful and informative. He even has a video dedicated on how to get the chest slam back using a house curve. Good luck!

[@BuildMontage]

This was all planned, I thought I mentioned it in the video - but yes, I have a MINIDSP and a UMIK1 mic already, and will of course be doing all the PEQ of the subs once I have the new sub is in place :) And yes Steve's video, I've watched it once before, and will be a great resource although I do have some people on hand who have offered to assist me - I'm pretty quick at picking this stuff up being a nerd too LOL!

[@brucecarter6205]

It happens Tony. We’ve all been there. It’s pure luck if you placed your subs in predetermined locations and got perfect response at the primary seat. I agree 100% with your decision to add a third sub over a separate power amp. Smart thinking.👍

[@BuildMontage]

For sure. It’s funny because I set them up before I got my seating and when I had only one chair in there they sounded great. Once the Valencia’s went in is when I experienced the void. My test shows a third sub helps so it’s coming!!

[@chevron916]

Thanks for the video Tony. Really enjoyed this one. I have some experience with the Volcanix. Nice subs. Very similar performance to the SVS PB2000. I would LOVE to see some frequency sweeps for each of the seats, before and after the addition on the 3rd sub.

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks for sharing that, and I will absolutely share this info in a video. I'm hesitant to do it but will see. That's when all the experts come out of the woodwork LOL!

[@TorinTPG]

I own the SVS PB-2000s. If the Volcanix operates at levels similar to these, Tony will be very pleased

[@lo_fye]

@TonyJames - dumb question, but have you tried switching the phase on one of your two main subs? It sounds like the sound waves coming out of the two woofers each hit the chair in front of them, but in the middle, the sound waves cancel each other out when in the same phase. Switching phases should mitigate that.

[@BuildMontage]

Yes, first thing I thought of based on past experience. I might have to revisit though as I did a lot of things during experimentation.

[@realNikoCousin]

Great video, Tony. It's funny how you always describe 'from a phone' but yet, I understand. Great vid as always.

[@BuildMontage]

HAHA Yep, well, most of my viewers are watching on their smartphone, so it may seem obvious but tiny little iPhone speakers won't represent what I'm hearing in my room LOL!

[@realNikoCousin]

@@BuildMontage Attack time on surround effects tells a lot from a stationary record. I hope one day you can review my humble setup. 4520CI, RF82 bi-amped, RC62, RS52, DCM TP160BDP-B, Infinity BU-2, Energy SS10.3

[@BuildMontage]

@@realNikoCousin Are you on my Discord server: 💬 Join The Discussion on Discord - discord.gg/wvtvkaP - we can chat!

[@TerminatorJuice]

Also, my old Klipsch just went down to 26Hz and sounded OK, but once I went with the SVS that is rated down to 20Hz the difference was absolutely incredible! Now I feel a nice thump in my mack when bass hits in a movie, and I can't believe what I was missing all these years!

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks for sharing! I am pretty confident with the third sub evening things out, it's all going to sound fantastic. The current Klipsch one added so much, so I can only imagine what the new one will do.

[@tommygunzz7586]

Great video. Yes, a more rectangular shaped room is better acoustically. As far as subs go multiple subs is always recommended whenever possible but, multiple locations is where it counts for even dispersion. With your layout some will use butt kickers to compensate, and others will place a sub or two near field. Decoupling a sub from the floor has advantages (less room distortion, better sounding) but based on the subs ability, the chosen location, and how high up it is can really hurt that boom...

[@BuildMontage]

My room isn't great for acoustics, but it's cozy and feels when watching a movie. Also the third subwoofer made all the difference to the setup - I have it in place now and gives the tactile feeling that was missing.

[@eflizotte]

Some others have recommended it in the comments but I would spend some time w REW and the miniDSP software and run sweeps with phase flipped on one output as well as running sweeps with 1ms changes in delay for one sub and identify which combo gives you the best response

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks Eric, and yes, all of these things are being considered. I do have some help BTS as well. Once I get the new sub in, the real fun begins!

[@eflizotte]

@@BuildMontage excited for what’s next for you! Thanks for the videos you make for this community!

[@keepingupwiththejones2933]

Bass nulls are pretty common, especially when walls are close to being symmetrical. Best rooms for home theater bass usually have longest walls on the sides and shortest wall at the front. 97db is awesome. I think the 3rd subwoofer is the better option. Barrett is happy hearing this 😅🤣

[@BuildMontage]

Yes I know. My first version of the room I had issues but I could also move my subs around which mitigated the issue. I am sure the third sub will fix things!

[@Blackpumkin6]

Great vid as usual Can’t wait to see your future acoustic treatments, the difference is just amazing

[@BuildMontage]

I know! I can't wait. It's all on it's way, well part of it is. I have the star ceiling already in which is acoustic pinboard so ceiling reflections are covered, I have some diffusers on the back wall coming and of course absorption panels - and potentially a curtain for the left wall.

[@onthecasejase]

The long and winding road to attaining Theatre Room perfection!! 🙂 Great topic to discuss, as I’m sure nearly all of us have experienced this problem at times. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the wireless module for the sub when you get it...future video perhaps? Keep up the great work mate!!

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks Jase! And yep it’s the journey and I show the bad with the good :) I got the sub yesterday and got it all hooked up and even though it’s in a different room it’s got a strong signal and worked really well. What I’ll have to do is see how much latency there is when I start using the minidsp. I’ll be making a video on it for sure :)

[@onthecasejase]

@@BuildMontageYep for sure. The latency is what I’m curious about too.

[@BuildMontage]

@@onthecasejase I’m sure the minidsp will take care of it but so far even uncalibrated things sound really good

[@shouwnoosting6030]

Great video Tony on an important topic 👍 I had a similar issue in my room, running Krix SX front end which includes twin Volcanix Slim subs. I added a 3rd sub (SVS SB1000) just behind my main seating position and this made a big difference! Much better bass response and a nice rumble in the seat 😊

[@BuildMontage]

That’s interesting and thanks for sharing that. The slim arrived today and man oh man what a difference!! Which SX speakers did u go with?

[@shouwnoosting6030]

@@BuildMontage I’m running the Megaphonix In Room speakers for the FL/FR and a Megaphonix Centre. I love my Volcanix Slim subs which replaced a pair of SVS PB2000’s. The 2000’s went a bit lower but I find the Volcanix have more slam.

[@BuildMontage]

@@shouwnoosting6030 I got my Volcanix Slim today and i agree about the slam. Im using it for near field and my chairs get a very tactile response from it and paired with the MX-10 subs, it just feels like a much better room - albeit, no MINIDSP calibration, but I wanted to make sure the "feeling" was right before diving in and fine tuning everything. Thanks again for sharing :)

[@JingoLoBa57]

Krix design installation boo. Oops. No no no it’s the room! Thanks bro for sharing your experience here. Most instructive video I’ve seen in a long time.

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks :) my room is really bad but it shows if u make adjustments you can make improvements. The third Krix sub I just installed changed everything.

[@outsane1]

Great video. I just recently found you and have started watching all your videos. Your Krix speaker system looks very impressive and i am sure it does, but i was more than a bit concerned that you could have the problem that you are. I am glad that adding a sub fixed the issue for you. This is also something that worries me about the room i am planning it will be 15' by 17' or 4.5m by 5m so more square than your room is. I have a pair of Stereo Integrity Hs-24 mkIII to handle the lows but sometimes even brute force can't fix the problem. We shall see what happens once i get that far. Keep up the great videos.

[@BuildMontage]

Hi Randy, thank you for reaching out and I wish you well with your theater build. The third sub really added the tactile feel. Since these videos, I have added the MINIDSP and had a subscriber and friend come round and do remote calibrations and the room is singing now. MINIDSP will be your friend! Join the Discord server too if you like and we can chat more.

[@mahmoodal-hujair6152]

I completely agree regarding the seating position. I, too, have the same issue as my room is also squarish. However, in my case, the middle seat has the best sounding experience. I also noticed that it might just be me since I experimented watching a whole movie on the left seat. It was good but any atmos effect from the right side of the room may seem bit far away. I also increased the volume on the surrounds which kind of solved it, maybe. Nonetheless, great video as always Tony!

[@BuildMontage]

Yes the third sub solved my problem not sounds phenomenal now. Tactile fee across the whole body now. The Volcanix slim is an awesome sub.have u tried an additional subwoofer or moving your subs around?

[@TylerStout]

Personally I'd use a long RCA cable over the wireless module as that will add about 30ms of delay (equal to 10m of delay in the AVR) to the sub and could make it harder to integrate. When doing your measurements I'd start with measuring each sub individually and they play with positioning the third one along the back wall to see which one fills in the gap that that front two leave the best. Then time align them and then start making some filters to flatten them out. I used MSO to create filters and set delays between my two subs and I was able to really hone in the consistency of my subs to where all 3 of my front seats are getting the same sound within about 3db which is miles better than the 8-12db of difference I was getting before doing anything. I'm still far from having it perfect but it's miles ahead of where i was before and especially before when i had them both up front in my room. Good luck!

[@BuildMontage]

I can’t sadly due to other constraints of running cables (rack is in a different room and I have a double storey so can’t get in the ceiling) but I think the minidsp can cater for delays from my understanding but I’ll be finding out for sure once I start :) thanks for the suggestions.

[@TylerStout]

@@BuildMontage Maybe you could run it behind the moldings at the floor. Would be a bit more work since those are usually nailed in. I can't remember if you have carpet but a lot times you can pull up the edge and route it under the carpet around the edge. They might even have flat or slim subwoofer cables to make the fit a bit easier. Just trying to throw out some ideas encase one seems possible. I just have mine routed around the room at the floor next to the wall which while not hideous looking isn't as clean as no wires.

[@BuildMontage]

@@TylerStout it’s not that easy sadly. It’s a looong run and no way wife is letting me rip up brand new skirting boards. Haha

[@mfkhometheater7742]

My brother's room is pretty much a perfect square at about 6M x6M +/- just a bit and he's had a lot of struggles with the exact same issue you describe... a big sink hole in the bass at the center seat. I think he's up to four sub locations now and is finally relatively happy with the results. My room is going to be 6.4M x 8.5M and is surrounded on three sides by attic space so I can have about as many infinite baffle subs as I want. The plan on this has changed so many times I can't even count them and probably by the time the house is finished and I move in it will change again. The one thing that is certain is that there will be numerous subwoofer locations. Subwoofes are cheap if you build them yourself especially if open or infinite baffle. As for the miniDSP, you are doing yourself a big disservice by not utilizing it. The problem I think is fear of the unknown but once you try it and find out how incredibly easy it is and find out what it can do for you, you're going to be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. I'm old, and old school, I use to design and build analog active circuits with a multitude of op-amps and related components to provide active EQ and crossover. That's my comfort zone but something like miniDSP is normally a source of frustration for me, I suck at it... and yet, even I can do it and even find it easy. I'm the kind of guy that will look at a "Whatever for idiots" book on software controlled devices and say, "this is too difficult, do you have anything for morons?" If I can do it, you definitely can do it! I don't even know all it's capabilities, I don't need to, it only requires a basic understanding to get great results. I don't know much about REW, I use ARTA. Possibly with REW and definitely with ARTA you can look at real time frequency response. With the miniDSP and ARTA you can easily dial in your system, no guess work. You don't have to listen to a movie clip and subjectively decide if the last change improved it or not, you can just make the changes on the fly and see the result real time. I'm telling you, miniDSP combined with ARTA (or possibly REW) is going to be like you spent your whole life walking and suddenly discovered the automobile. I have a commercial license but as far as I know you can still download and use ARTA for free for non commercial use.

[@BuildMontage]

Agree with all your points. I am most definitely going to dive into the minidsp now that I pretty much have everything in place. It will be interesting to see how much better the setup will be once it’s all dialled in.

[@mfkhometheater7742]

@@BuildMontage Yes definitely, I look forward to your video(s) describing the experience and impact on performance. The 2x4HD is pretty good and I will likely be using several in my theater but the nanoDigi with external DAC's is generally going to be better depending on what DAC's you use with it. My theater is making progress, the seat risers are now in and the builder did a fantastic job on them. You could drive a truck across them they made them so strong. I just posted a quick video of the progress but will try to post a better one in a couple days.

[@mattmuncher2315]

Great video Tony, keen to see what the room sounds like when I get mine. So excited.

[@BuildMontage]

Which ones did you decide on? MX-40?

[@mattmuncher2315]

@@BuildMontage only a 6 by 3.75 room, going the the MX-20s. Just looking the sub your getting, looks sweet, keen to see if you think going down to the lows of 15 over the 25 which our mains are at makes a big difference. Really do love the Krix products.

[@BuildMontage]

@@mattmuncher2315 The cool thing is, and probably relevant to you - (post it on Discord if you like!) is that Krix also have passive subs to match the MX subs so you can place them in other areas of the room. I'll see if I can get some more info foryou. But for me the Volcanix Slim is perfect as I can put it next to my seating up against the wall and it won't cut into my room at all. Your room is also better proportioned than mine, and likely that you won't have the same issues Im having due to my room being quite square.

[@TorinTPG]

I look forward to see how that Volcanix sub performs in tandem with those amazing MX-10s. Wireless subs intrigue me. Seems like there would be latency issues, but nothing a miniDSP can't assist with via alignment, I suppose! Turn that sub back over and move it back to its spot - I couldn't take my eyes off of it (my OCD)! I liked the b-roll - he was a good sport to help out. Your follow-up video with the 3rd sub and miniDSP will be great!

[@BuildMontage]

Mate - the subwoofer is going back round the right way - it was only a temporary fix - now that the third Volcanix Slim is in - it fixed the issue.

[@TorinTPG]

@@BuildMontage nice!

[@melcuemba03]

Great video Tony. I like the real life challenges you talk about. I am about to add two more B&W subs myself. I totally understand the desire to stay within one brand. You know I am a B&W guy and have a hard time adding any thing else in room. Thought about SVS but opted to stay with B&W.

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks Mel. You know I like to share the bad with the good - all part of the journey. Love to see the new additions once you add them! Your room is all class my friend!

[@gary4593]

I like the video clip . Youthman has a video clip on mini DSP and made big difference when he finish. Did you made a sweep with mini DSP and made the changes ? Cheers

[@BuildMontage]

Not yet Gary, but that video is coming :) I'm waiting on a 20m powered USB cable so I can connect my UMIK-1 Mic

[@CharloBagis]

Very informative video, thanks Tony and happy new year to you and your family 🖖

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks 🙏🏻 and happy new year to you as wel :)

[@TerminatorJuice]

One last thing to consider Tony is that it's possible that the bigger woofer size just isn't a good fit for your room... Believe it or not in my room a 12" sub didn't give me nearly as good of results as a 10" woofer did! So I had to "settle" on a 10" sub... but once I found that SVS PB-1000 that goes down to 20Hz I achieved the best bass results I've ever had in my room! Also, once you get that new sub hooked up and experience those 15Hz, I'd bet you that if you unhook the front two subs, that you won't even notice they are gone.

[@hyuuuhyyy7887]

When i first learned of people having 3 or 4 subs i always thought wow overkill, 2 is more than enough! now with experience i agree some rooms you really do need 3 or 4 subs to get what we all crave in real theater bass. I have two SVS PC2000 and added a third velodyne SLP-1200 and gave me what i was after. The 2 PC2000 added low rumble and the velodyne gives me the tight punch.

[@BuildMontage]

I made this video knowing the third sub made all the difference. It’s my room that’s making it necessary and the Volcanix Slim will fix the issue nicely and I can put my Klipsch sub back in the living room!

[@martinbailey3408]

Great information for others experiencing similar issues 👍

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks Martin. The room is king it seems!

[@fayedyousef]

Just wondering, can't your avr only handle 2 subs? Also do you know if I can buy krix speakers with me living in the usa

[@BuildMontage]

This correct. I use the MINIDSP 2+4HD which allows up to four subwoofers :) I think I have a link in the description of the video - if not let me know and I'll find it and the UMIK1 mic so you can check it out.

[@BuildMontage]

Also Krix don't have any distributors in the USA yet sadly.

[@Zahidali-mh5br]

I always watch your video blogs from India and you are quite an inspiration for me. I aspire to have the same some times in the future. Right now I just have Epson EHTW + Sony HT IV 300. A big update will come after seeing your progress and results.

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks for tuning in! Good luck with your upgrade!

[@kingscinema3873]

I ve got exactly same problem in my room - with both full range towers and svs sub behind or near the screen. It was corrected by puting my sub just behind my MLP in nearfield - i highly recommend you try it :) best tactile feel ever. Now waiting for cap 6000ulf to put in place of svs :)

[@kingscinema3873]

Did you try to get over ocd :) and just take out these subs from front wall and putting them behind your seat? Might be good idea without spending anything :)

[@BuildMontage]

I've ordered my sub - I made this video retrospectively to solving the issue :) The Klipsch sub I have near the seating at the back corner did the trick - so the new sub is far more capable - and yes, I will be flipping the sub back the right way, and no i can't move them to the back wall - it would defeat the purpose of the baffle wall, and also I can't add any cables there due to other issues I have with getting cables there.

[@kingscinema3873]

@@BuildMontage Ok i keep my fingers crossed that you achieve the desired sound. I like your videos, and its nice to see some Krix reviews. I was considering Krix wall of sound vs JTR huge towers, but there was literally no reviews of the wall on the internet. I wonder how Krix would compare to JTRs :).

[@kojak99100]

Have you tried just one sub ? Seems both together are cancelling each other out at the center seat.

[@BuildMontage]

Yes, tried that, it didn't seem to make a difference.. I have the third sub now which has helped greatly.

[@randysmith5597]

Tony, love your videos. I am building a home theater now and have learned a lot from your experience. Did you do anything to "soundproof" your room? When you are watching a movie does everyone in the house hear it? I haven't noticed you mention this before. Thanks.

[@BuildMontage]

Hi Randy, thanks for tuning in. Yes, I have upgraded acoustic material inside my walls and ceiling, but thats the extent of it. It helps but when I have the system cranked up, you can still hear it out of the room. I can't do much about it now, but every little bit helps. I also have a sliding door which leaks a fair bit outside of the room.

[@BradleyAshley]

Looking good Tone - curious whether any negative effects were noticed in the seats adjacent to the MLP once the third subw as added?? You'd hope not but subs are funny, fickle things :P

[@BuildMontage]

No negative effects. It all improved the tactile feeling if anything. Can’t wait to try out the new sub!

[@TorinTPG]

@@BuildMontage I want to see sub sweeps across all 3 seats with REW. It would be curious to see it as well with 2 vs. 3. My dual sub setup is great for my MLP, but I still get some wonkiness in the right seat. More subs is the answer :)

[@homecinemademo]

I love your video edits Tony. Can you suggest a camera and other equipment that you use? Do you edit in Premiere?

[@BuildMontage]

Sure I have a gear list somewhere. I’ll link it tomorrow morning.

[@Soyanation]

Great Video Tony!!!!

[@TheJoeyPeacock]

Nice video, Tony. Keep after it. Curious...seems the HF speakers are firing over your head as well...?? And you have no acoustical treatment in the room. Seems likely you have far greater sound challenges than you realize. Best wishes, buddy.

[@BuildMontage]

They actually aren’t. I have a riser so they are lined up with my head. It looks like that from the angle of the camera, and as I said in the vid, acoustic panels are coming :) but challenges for sure!

[@rb6978]

Hi mate. I’ve come across this exact issue with having two subs in the baffle. Have you tried moving one of the subs behind your screen to the back of the room. Place just it just off room centre so it’s not opposite the other sub still sitting behind the screen.

[@BuildMontage]

I can’t as I don’t have ability to run cables. But adding the third sub made the difference :) so kinda the same thing your describing.

[@juliocrmferrari]

Hi. I'm from Brazil and I really like your videos. Maybe you already know, but if not, I believe that a system of bass shakers would be very cool in your seats. I got to know this system through the @TwoGuyzTech channel. I installed it in my humble home theater and it was amazing. My family and friends said it was one of the best upgrades I've done. A big hug.

[@BuildMontage]

Hello from Australia!! Yes it's something I may consider in the future for sure. I think I need to experience it myself first before deciding to do it.

[@arijaglal7779]

I’d look at using the MiniDSP 2x4HD and REW before a third sub, you probably need proper time alignment and tuning on the Youthman Crew FB Group Zachary Faley can help you get a proper tune going.

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks Ari - that's happening. As mentioned, Ive spent a bit of time trying to fix the problem but the 3rd sub did the trick. I wanted a near field sub anyway!

[@TorinTPG]

Or get 3 subs and align them all - moar powa!!!! :)

[@shaneducholke364]

I found with my theater room that having dual subs at the front that were the same distance from the listening position cause the same void at my listening position. I found the best was corner load a front corner and then corner load the opposite rear corner, but I could not keep a sub in the back permanently but had great success with one sub in the front just inside the right speaker and then the second sub along the left wall about 3 feet from the screen pointed 90° from the front sub. The more flexibility you have to place your subs makes is much easier to achieve the best expirience

[@BuildMontage]

No doubt. There are benefits to the baffle wall, but I think the compromise will be requiring additional subwoofers if you have a squarish small room like mine. Krix do have a lineup of passive subwoofers to match their MX series which I'll be covering off in a later video.

[@shaneducholke364]

@@BuildMontage You mentioned the passives and those look interesting. Living in Canada, I have zero knowledge on Krix but they look like a premium product.

[@BuildMontage]

@@shaneducholke364 Krix is a local brand here in Australia and do sell internationally, however not in North America just yet. They have pedigree in the commercial cinema space, so these MX-10 speakers have a very "cinematic" feel to them, very enveloping, however with a fixed position being a baffle wall, it's difficult to do the sub crawl, so in bad rooms like mine acoustically, adding additional subwoofers can really help.

[@shaneducholke364]

@@BuildMontage hopefully I get an opportunity to hear them sometime, I love the wall of sound behind the screen idea, even though that isn't possible in my room. I think Krix could do well in North America based on the uniqueness of their product line and more people building acoustical screen systems into new homes. Keep up the great work my friend

[@BuildMontage]

@@shaneducholke364 thanks Shane! Hopefully with more exposure the opportunity will arise. They are incredible for home theater.

[@HomesAtHeart]

Have you tried moving your seating 1’-2’ forward/back? The null might run down the center of your room, or it might just be at your current seating position

[@BuildMontage]

I'm on a riser so I am limited how far forward I can bring the seats.

[@LifeSized101]

3.7m x5.2 lounge with 12" front left ish, dual 10" behind couch sideways. Hear and feel it, well discovered by accident.

[@BuildMontage]

Yep I know the third sub will fix it :)

[@Edsel76]

hey man i know exactly what you mean, I added a small 6" sub to my setup just for fun and i cant belie the difference from such a small thing; placement ,placement that's the key

[@teerapatlengpiboon1257]

I know that this is MX designed for put all behind the screen But my stupid question is Can we change the 2 sub woofer in other areas go get the smooth bass response due to the room mode issue? Maybe adjust the baffle wall for those LCR if removing the subwoofers.

[@BuildMontage]

I have another video dropping in a couple of hours that shows how I fixed the issues in my room. Great questions though. And yes you can technically move a subwoofer out but my solution was adding a 3rd sub and is worked perfectly.

[@blueflame0003]

Love the the triplets...funny

[@BuildMontage]

Trying to have a bit of fun - my videos can be a bit too serious at times!

[@blueflame0003]

@@BuildMontage it was funny thks have a great day.chow

[@chem_e_markmark6374]

Science!! Bass is unpredictable. Won’t know what you have until you’ve played around with it

[@BuildMontage]

Aint that the truth!

[@TorinTPG]

This is true. This is why a calibrated mic and software is SO important when setting up the theater. We spend money on everything, but you're not getting max performance out of the system without measurements and a miniDSP. I think Tony will be blown away to see his in-room response after he works on his miniDSP setup.

[@hughkleinsc8949]

Just seen this video of yours for the first time . I have the same problem With no bass in the centre but heaps on both sides As in your room my room is a square 7m x7m. Guess I will get another sub .

[@BuildMontage]

Yes part 2 to this I got another sub but now I have two more :)

[@zackpetrovic3029]

You try moving the seating back and forth? Looks like it is right up against the wall

[@BuildMontage]

It’s about 800mm off the back wall. It’s a small room and has a riser so I can’t do to much forward plus side surrounds are in a fixed position. Challenges my whole room!

[@mohammedmedhat5496]

Tony what about build your current room bigger

[@BuildMontage]

I’m not sure how that would be possible lol

[@mohammedmedhat5496]

@@BuildMontage maybe it will help ❤️❤️❤️

[@brandoninsley7887]

I kind of wondered if this would happen in your setup due to the placement of the subs... General rule of thumb with subwoofers (as you probably know) is clustered together (if more than one for constructive interference) and boundary-loaded, i.e. in a corner ideally, against a wall, at floor level. The "wall" configuration works well enough in commercial theatres because a) the shape and size of the room make it so that standing waves are far less likely to happen, b) the rooms are obviously acoustically treated out the Ying Yang and c) they're typically dealing with large clusters of 18" drivers running off of many thousands of watts of power. One of the reasons I'm not necessarily sold on this "true home theatre experience" from this company, as the application almost demands a proper venue to even reap the benefits of horn-loaded, high-efficiency drivers. It's kind of like using a Lambo to do Uber. Hella cool, but not exactly practical.

[@BuildMontage]

It works really well all things considered and the third sub made all the difference. The main issue is the mlp. The other seats were perfect before I added the third sub. It’s just the middle position.

[@brandoninsley7887]

@@BuildMontage glad you've got a solution in the works. Getting good bass with even coverage can be a bugger to figure out!

[@BuildMontage]

@@brandoninsley7887 the third sub did the trick. My room sucks and was going to be a challenge before I even started due to size and dimensions etc. it’s a well documented journey on my channel but I love a challenge and will keep trying to get the best I can get and share it with the community. Learning as I go!

[@krixdotcom]

Hi Brandon, thanks for sharing your thoughts! Unfortunately, many cinemas are not actually treated as you describe (although it would be nice), in fact quite the opposite. You will also find that many cinemas have a pair, or a couple of pairs of subs behind the screen, not large clusters. They also need to fill a much larger space than a home environment. We'd argue that you don't need a proper commercial venue or even a very large home cinema to appreciate the benefits of the waveguides and constant directivity horns - they're designed to deliver a very consistent off-axis response, giving you a clear, focused sound across more seats in your room. They also reduce the amount of stray sounds reflecting off the walls, and especially with the CD horns, the sound that is reflected is much more consistent. As you know, acoustic treatment in the room is important and will make a good system great. High efficiency speakers have a huge benefit in home theatres, they allow users to achieve high SPL's and a big dynamic range, with low distortion.... from quiet whispers to a big explosion, you have the capability of the full dynamic range of movies, making it very cinematic and lifelike. A product like the MX-10 allows enthusiasts to achieve these really dynamic levels from even a mid level AVR - so the benefits are most certainly applicable (and practical) to people trying to create a cinematic experience in their homes. I realise this is coming from our own viewpoint, but hopefully one day (if you haven't already) you get the chance to listen to one of these systems in person. Cheers Brandon and happy new year.

[@brandoninsley7887]

@@BuildMontage I love what you've done so far! The star ceiling is probably one of the coolest things I've seen done in a ht build. If I had the dedicated space I'd love to do the same! Keep on doing what you're doing man, great content!

[@Inabottle]

are you going to able to flip your sub back around after the upgrade?

[@BuildMontage]

That’s the plan! I think I put that in an overlay text bubble in the video :)

[@martinecleary9529]

Like cinema hd showbox teatv app like that what do u think

[@Urahara12squad]

Like you said, you have no acoustic treatment. That is your only problem. You hear the room not the speaker. Also you may need a pre/pro. The receiver might not be powerful enough.

[@BuildMontage]

Prepro is coming but the Denon 8500 is plenty powerful for now.

[@gregjones2472]

Mate, I feel your pain. I would be just as totally disheartened as you are

[@BuildMontage]

I'm not disheartened at all!! I've ordered my new Volcanix Slim which will fix the problem... proof of concept is the temporary Klipsch sub. I had to share this though as it's all part of the journey. To be honest I was a little when I first experienced it but I'm a problem solver (22 years in IT will do that to you!) and with the additional sub will do the trick :)

[@straiteE]

Good job...yahh!

[@AMERICOBECKS]

Man I have exactly the same problem 😭 I have two 12 inch subs and the left seat feels like an IMAX but my main center seat nothing I have move the subs everywhere and nothing I really don't want to add a third sub 😭😭😭 the only thing I haven't done is stack the subs would you recommend that?

[@BuildMontage]

I recommend trying whatever will get you the even response across your sets. That's what I did. 3rd sub did the trick :)

[@kingscinema3873]

Put them just behind your seat - you will forget about going to imax... ever :)

[@TorinTPG]

Are you utilizing a miniDSP and calibrated mic? I highly recommend it if your budget allows

[@AMERICOBECKS]

@@TorinTPG hi, I am using just audyssey on marantz 8015 but nothing I have to keep moving one of the subs to see if I have luck and find a spot that give me base on my seat

[@TorinTPG]

@@AMERICOBECKS This is an issue that people have at times with multiple subs. The room might be fighting you and the subs might be fighting you (or both). Before I setup my miniDSP, I was get a -20db null at my seating position with both subs playing because they were "fighting" each other. Moving the subs around might be able to fix some of it, but a miniDSP would be best if your budget allows for it

[@martinecleary9529]

Tony what is the best movie app to download

[@BuildMontage]

Hi Martine - what do you mean specifically? An app for your Apple TV or device to stream on?

[@martinecleary9529]

See I have android TV box and what is the best movie app to download

[@BuildMontage]

Again, do you mean Netflix, HBO MAX, Amazon Prime, CBS ALL ACCESS or Disney+?

[@Guy-zt1eb]

Looks like the volcanic krix Subwoofer Is in order I got the volcanic 2 months ago great Subwoofer Some water

[@BuildMontage]

Which one did u get Guy? The slim design or the front ported one?

[@Guy-zt1eb]

@@BuildMontage Front ported

[@Guy-zt1eb]

It's a really good Subwoofer so far packs a punch and you'll get the low end that you want Very deep and clean Sanding subwoofer one of the nicest ones I have listen to

[@BuildMontage]

@@Guy-zt1eb Thanks for sharing Guy!

[@BuildMontage]

@@Guy-zt1eb great to know! Thanks!

[@JingoLoBa57]

Can you drop that new sub into the wall?

[@BuildMontage]

It’s a slim design but by drop into the wall what do u mean?

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Just adding a third sub is inefficient. You need to adjust the position of the second and then add a third in the appropriate position. Otherwise you might as well disconnect the second sub.

[@BuildMontage]

That’s the challenge. Very limited ability to reposition the main subs. Adding a third added all that was missing. I already have the new one in :)

[@victorpulos823]

Is there krix USA website

[@BuildMontage]

No it’s Australian company. You can send enquiries to krix.com.au contact us page.

[@victorpulos823]

@@BuildMontage thanks for help plus I love your videos

[@Quetzalcoatl0]

Acoustic treatmens won't help you with bass. Do you have measuring equipment to see where the null is ? Didn't see any graphs. SPL meter would work too, but they suck from 32hz and below, so you can't use it with bass under 32hz. Also you need to not move it at all -> tripod. The mini dsp will work wonders, but you need to see what each sub does and how they work together in order to tune it. With this setup a 75$ unik 1 will make your system complete, like 10x better. In-room response marketing is just theoretical, not guaranteed. Instead of spending more money on subs and amps and whatever. 75$ umik-1 first. Make you system work the best it can right now, then consider spending more money.

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks and yes, I have umik1 mic. I didn’t show graphs etc yet. And we used an SPL meter as well, I thought I’d mentioned that in video, maybe I didn’t. But yes once the new sub comes I’ll be doing a full calibration again.

[@Quetzalcoatl0]

@@BuildMontage You mentions only the SPL meter, and that device is no good with this kind of job. :) Every room will have nulls at different positions. More subs = less nulls. But they need to be calbirated and that required graphs :). I can help if you need.

[@BuildMontage]

Thanks very much. Once I hook up the umik1 I’ll be able to start calibrating again. I bought the unik1 with the minidsp a few months back.

[@PMVault]

This program might help you with your room mode problems or just informative. amcoustics.com/tools/amroc

[@nigelstead7496]

Here's his link on using rew and mini dsp to align multiple subs hope this helps keep up the good work fella 👍 kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXKZmIN5mN-bq7c

[@BuildMontage]

Thank you!