Reef Tank Trace Elements & Balling Method MISTAKES!

We're debunking myths about the Balling method! In today's video, Matthew has some advice from Tropic Marin's Lou Ekus on how the Balling method works in our reef tanks and WHY it doesn't actually replenish the trace elements our coral love. Mix up your favorite two part and join us here!
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[@CoralEuphoria]

Like most scientific theories in reefing, it's all fascinating and makes sense in theory, but in real life, it matters very little.

[@ThomasBReef]

Great to see you here in the comments! Love your vids!!!

[@jonathancollins9831]

You’re a legend

[@TattooedDancer91]

Depends how much you want to know and do confidentally as scientifically proven. :)

[@spicyreef]

TRUTH!☺

[@ReefandDive]

I totally agree (having studied the theory pretty deeply). I have used the method for years! My problem always was: what about the excess consumption of alk (like acid production by non skeletal-producing organisms). For the last 1.5 year I changed for Balling light by Fauna Marin (2 part with trace dosing instead of the entire NaCl-free salt - why would I dose sulfur for example, if it already builds up so heavily by feeding?). So I started dosing independently with 15% weekly water changes mainly for cleaning and exporting purposes. Since then, the tank got really intense growth AND stability, with zero deaths and no NaCl building up on my ICP… This is a moment when science would be great IF the only consumption of carbonates were for calcium carbonate creation. This is just my current opinion after forcing the tank on this theory for a really long time…

[@ncoppens]

I am a new reefer and my tank has been up for only 4 months, but I had been doing some research on future dosing. This was by far the clearest short explanation and you confirmed my choice of product, since I like to keep things as easy as possible.

[@mikemichaels6753]

Trust me.. coral vital and GOOD carbon in sump… patience let it cycle.. longer it takes the better.

[@I3IMBO13AGGINS]

I have been using All For Reef for almost 2 years now and SWEAR by it. I will never use another dosing fluid. The powdered form is just too good of a deal and SO stable.

[@justinbradford9826]

I can’t get it to work. Would you be willing to teach me? About to switch to 3-part and try and save my tank.

[@03bugeye]

I 2nd that, I've been dosing AFR for 1.5 years now my Derassa LOVES it

[@stephlamarch9196]

The only problem is it, there's no PH boost from it.

[@Uncle.J.32]

All for reef has grows bacteria in the bottle. Reason I stopped using it

[@rolisreefranch]

Nice coral around the 3:48 mark... wink, wink.

[@thoms-zeeaquarium]

Really nice video Matthew! It reminds me of the importance of ICP testing every once in a while

[@sanpietroprogettista9887]

Thank you, I now completely understand. I will pursue this. It seems interesting to me and logical.

[@calvinsm]

Very helpful! Thank you! Just ordered by All-for-Reef!

[@large8123]

I watched the MACNA video of Lou you guys put out. its one of the single best videos for understanding reef chemistry i've seen. I've shared it with so many people and it completely changes the way you think about reef chemistry and i think watching it should be a requirement for any reefer although i admit it would probably put a lot of people off because its a lot to take onboard.

[@BRStv]

The MACNA talks are always fantastic. I'd have to throw out a recommendation for Dr. Tim's talk from 2019 as well!

[@bthefountain]

Great video! This is why I don’t like daily auto water changes. Mathematically, it compounds the issue you describe. It is very hard to explain this and I just end up confusing people. 🤣

[@drewlong77]

You're Right... I assume.. since I'm already confused.. because I would intuitively think it would help... if you test for alk cal mag daily.. AND your salt mix is adjusted to the parameters you keep your tank at. Whatever I'm missing... its just daily you find problematic... Not Weekly? Thnx.

[@bobmcrae1178]

amazing video.

[@swordsman111982]

I use All For Reef on my nano, and it’s amazing. Keeps tank very stable and corals look amazing.

[@justinbradford9826]

What else do you dose? My tank has been dying.

[@sayurasem]

Anybody tried Sea Lab No. 28 mineral blocks for trace elements?

[@bige6443]

ESV B-Ionic 2 part and Red Sea salt mix contain trace elements, what am I missing?

[@eillyacostandinides3344]

I simply adore looooo

[@PatrickJewellTheGreat]

Technically 70% of saltwater is made of TWO ions - Na+ and Cl- in solution.

[@thereefhobbyist]

+1 (One cation and one anion)

[@mikemichaels6753]

All you need is wet dry, skimmer, heater, lighting and coral vital for soft coral reef. Don’t get sucked into spending . Old school wet dry with bio balls, bigger the chamber the better. Most important Patients! Cycle and add animals and corals very slowly. I had 2 actinic and 2 daylight bulbs for a 75 gallon NO NEED TO BIG EXPENSIVE LIGHTING SYSTEM.

[@xanderjones2747]

Question: I'm a new reefer looking to setup a tank soon and have watched all your videos and of BRStv and love it all, so helpful. Is there a video or guide of all the different water parameters to aim for a new tank and over time and how to solve some common issues? Would be nice to have a ballpark range for all the parameters to aim for. Thanks for all the great content!

[@BRStv]

Check out or 5 Minute Saltwater Aquarium Guide. Lots of great videos in that series for beginners, including a few on problem algae, cyanobacteria, and other issues you might run into. Here is a link to the full playlist. kzbin.info/aero/PLBaMLrfToJyxJ1PuJZwhkxvvdFP14eV_t

[@xanderjones2747]

@@BRStv I love that whole series and found it very helpful. Specifically asking about the goal water parameters / nutrients levels to aim for like salinity, alkalinity, nitrate, etc etc.

[@montheralomari5529]

And this is how you confuse people, Taraaaaaa

[@aquadise1007]

When we dose Calcium Chloride and Sodium Bicarbonate, corals take up Calcium ion and Bicarbonate ion, the Sodium ion and Chloride ion in the dosing-liquid now are free and make the Sodium Chloride content in our aquarium tank go up. Make sense.

[@FLETTSTA88]

Very clever sales pitch!

[@Michael_k_DK]

What about ATI essentiels + and essentiels Pro ? Is it the same as Balling just to balance the saltwater ?

[@drewlong77]

Good job Mathew! BUT.. there IS..ONE MORE THING..BRS 2PART users going with the balling method NEED to know. MAGNESIUM. The standard directions that brs gives for mag addition relative to 2part usage .. IS NOW..NOT THE SAME/TOO MUCH. Since Magnesium Chloride is a large iingredient in part C. Dont get me wrong.. I know part C is just balancing out the 2part addition..including..MAGNESIUM... WHICH IS ALSO WHAT THE RECCOMENDED BRS 2PART MAG MIX IS ALSO DOING.. Think of it as the Mag only version of part C. This doesnt mean you dont want to use it at all.. if dosing part c of the balling method... you just now need to test and add the brs 2 part mag as needed.. and NOT just blindly add the standard suggested 600 ml of brs 2part MAG per gal (3800ml) of brs calcium dosed. Trust me.. we discussed this Lou & Randy Holmes Farley on R2R "Clarity on balling method part C" LOL.. you still with me? You're the best Mathew! .. And I wish we were done... inhaaale... BUT... The ONE LAST DETAIL YOU NEED... To be a Balling Method and EVEN.. an All For Reef Black Belt/Master... IS.. POTASSIUM! NOW... It DOES exsist in Part C.. but now we know that just means balance.. NOT coral uptake replenishment.. which is why its important to know.... there is NONE.. in the A or K trace Elements OR All For Reef! Why you ask? They (TM) consider it much More than a "Trace" Element.. And sell it separately to be dosed as needed. (in the same bottle that A,K, & AFR come in) That's It!! Easy right!? Lol! I do commend your honest delivery, egoless approach AND MOSTLY on NOT using the common term "ionic balance" ! Lol, although true it just doesn't help new or general reefers.. so the real compliment is knowing your audience. I hope this helped.. I really had to dig once upon a time to gather & grasp it all. One last fun Mathew fact.. Did you know that in martial arts, jiujitsu esp, which holds the highest respect for the belt system, that 7 degrees higher than Black Belt.. Esxists.. the CORAL BELT! :)

[@TheYear-dm9op]

I knew that Balling doesn't replace trace elements and also knew about the ion imbalance. That's why there is NaCl-free salt as part of the Balling method. So this comment isn't about that but purely about my mind blow experience with manual trace element dosing: A friend, who actually has a thriving SPS tank, told me, that at least in new, low populated reef tanks, water changes would replace them trace elements. I thought that kinda made sense but I'm now pretty sure this was bullocks. When I re- set up my corals in a new, bigger tank and took him for granted on the trace elements, nothing grew, even the soft corals and xenia did worse than the stony corals and just fell apart and melted and every coral was pretty white. I checked everything for weeks, did 50 % water changes often and pulled my hair out until I was left with the only logical explanation that my friend was wrong. I started dosing trace elements again and behold, just like that everything stopped dying and started growing and became colorful. You could see within *days* that they weren't dying anymore. Soo, I now firmly believe that in my (well known) salt (that advertised half of the periodic table to be in there) there are no trace elements what so ever, at least not even close to the needed concentration (water changes did nothing at all) and that adding trace elements manually is extremely important.

[@michaelross5674]

So that last product you said with everything should I dose that with doing my weekly water change

[@BRStv]

If you're doing water changes with a salt mix similar in major elements to your display tank (mainly calcium & alkalinity), then you shouldn't have to dose any extra All-For-Reef with your water changes.

[@freakygoblin3068]

Recently started all-for-reef, well as soon as the powder form became available and I was aware of it. Saves a ton of money compared to the liquid form. Still wouldn't skip the water changes though.If nothing else I use it to stir up the sand and get rid a lot of particulate matter. Also use the waste water to clean things such as the skimmer cup.

[@mikemichaels6753]

Sand is no good in reef.. bare bottom best! Add coral vital and a good carbon bag to “shine” the water. Good luck

[@freakygoblin3068]

@@mikemichaels6753 Nope.. in my opinion sand is far better for how it looks. Also I like wrasses which like sand. Great thing about reefing, each to his/her own.

[@mikemichaels6753]

@@freakygoblin3068 looks great but it collects garbage, long run it will create problems. Jus sayin’ … I had a reef long ago and you don’t need all that stuff they sell to be successful. Yah might wanna listen to someone who’s been there before all this nonsense came out.

[@freakygoblin3068]

@@mikemichaels6753 You may like to investigate the BRS video "Sand or no sand? The answer to the great bare bottom vs sand debate" Conclusion.. both can easily be 10 year tanks. Sand does needs to be cleaned which is the largest issue, especially on large tanks.

[@mikemichaels6753]

@@freakygoblin3068 look at the huge reef tanks that been up for a while on you tube. I’m talking the Huge ones and you’ll see no substrate for a reason

[@domenicolangella2397]

I have been dosing Aquaforest 3 part. I didn't realize that this wouldn't be replenishing the trace minerals in excess of the 70/30 ratio you mentioned. So would I just set up tfre all for reef on a separate doser to make up the shortfall of trace elements?

[@BRStv]

All For Reef is going to also be adding calcium and alkalinity to your system, so we wouldn't recommend using it in conjunction with the Aquaforest 3 part. If you wanted to keep using the Aquaforest products, but also wanted to add trace elements, Tropic Marin Trace A & K would be worth considering. www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-coral-a-trace-1-tropic-marin.html www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-coral-k-trace-2-tropic-marin.html

[@zaytoven337]

All I have is a 36 AIO mix reef wit lots of young tenuis frags I jus started dosing all for reef a month or two ago with weekly 5 gallon water changes my growth is still pretty slow. How often should I do a 100% water change? I’ve read that reefer use to thrive off of 100% water change something I’ve never done before.

[@BRStv]

100% water changes are very uncommon in our hobby. In most cases, reefers will do 10-25% every 1-4 weeks. Exact percentage and frequency depends on a number of factors like bio load, filtration, feeding habits, etc.

[@MoorersBaitCompany]

I have a question I can't seem to find any info on. I don't dose 2 part. I am using Kalk instead. Would the Kalk create this same problem with Sodium Chloride as 2 part does? Also I am dosing Mag and Tropic Marin A+ & K+. If it does would this also help solve the problem of Sodium Chloride?

[@BRStv]

The issue with increased sodium chloride is one specific to two part use and not something you'll have to worry about with kalkwasser. With two part, you have sodium carbonate and calcium chloride. When the corals use it, you get calcium carbonate (coral skeleton) and sodium chloride as a byproduct.

[@royhall557]

Hey Matthew...that was SO helpful but I had a follow up question. My 1st new reef tank is now stable and I'm about to start adding corals...gulp....I was following all the concepts with always needing to balance sodium chloride but then I read this on the "All for Reef" Tropic Marin web site...its on the All for Reef web page under Applications and Dosage....Can you help me understand what it means? Is this saying before initially using All for Reef you need to level set your parameters once, or EACH time you dose? I'm so confused.....:) AND why would you need to do this considering All for Reef's purpose??? Thank you!! "Before starting use of Tropic Marin® All-For-Reef as a supplement for your aquarium, it is recommended to adjust your systems calcium, alkalinity and magnesium to your desired values. We recommend using Tropic Marin® Original Balling - Part A (calcium chloride) for the calcium, Tropic Marin® Original Balling - Part B (sodium bicarbonate) for the alkalinity and Tropic Marin® Bio-Magnesium" ​

[@eillyacostandinides3344]

All for reef is all what i useeee

[@MACNTOSFAM]

😂😂😂 i just realized, teach dubbed some voice overs on this video

[@sseeaahhaawwkkssrule975]

Does BRS have a fish only channel?

[@BRStv]

We don't have a dedicated fish-only channel, but almost all of the information we share here can be carried over to fish only systems 🙂

[@justinbradford9826]

Been using All For Reef for 8 months now and can’t get my parameters balanced. Alk is high 9, Ca is low 300 and magnesium low 1100. Can I dose A4R for Alk and trace and also dose calcium and magnesium separately?

[@BRStv]

Yes, the only way to adjust specific elements is to dose them individually. It's best to adjust them to where you want them (in your case calcium chloride and magnesium sulfate/chloride mix), then use the All For Reef to maintain the levels.

[@Badboii21]

Isn’t that same a using a two part that has all traces and minor elements? 🤔 I know the Red Sea two part does not have any elements except calcium and alk.

[@Reefahholic]

That product he’s referring to at the end doses all major, minor, and trace elements in THEIR RATIO. The question becomes…what happens when your tank or my tank starts to consume MORE or LESS of just ONE element in that bottle? Then what? You either stop dosing and stop your ALK and CAL supplementation with it. Or…increase the dose and increase EVERYTHING in the bottle. Not every system is the same. Not everybody’s consumption is the same. We won’t even get into if that reefer has a Fuge, ATS, runs Carbon, GFO, large skimmer, does water changes, etc. Just know that you are at the mercy of the ratio they put in the bottle. 😉

[@bedamo91]

what about all for reef.. doesn't it have everything already in it needed?

[@dusk1947]

All-for-reef is awesome. It's a full one-part additive that generally has everything a reef needs for alkalinity consumption. But the technical answer is: "yes & no", it does not have everything, technically. The topic in this video is deeply technical. All-for-reef does what the balling method does (in a different way): solves for the slow swing of parameters inherent to traditional two-part. Where the sodium chloride fraction becomes greater over time. This video is great and addressed the problem at hand, but didn't describe the cause. The cause is that different corals under different conditions, uptake all these different elements at varying rates. The uptake is not standardize between tanks, or even between different corals. So, it's impossible to truly replace every element at the correct concentration, using any 1-part, 2-part, 3-part or 4-part. Hence it's impossible to correct for with any all-purpose product. To truly do it right, you need a 100% water change. (Or you can play mad scientist with ICP testing and individual additives) However, the technical answered is past being useful. For the vast majority of cases: all-for-reef has all you need. Likewise, so does a balling method 3 or 4-part. This is a fantastic topic to understand, so long as you understand it's theory. It's the text book level understanding. In practice, the combination of balling based dosing with normal water changes is enough for your reef to function and grow.

[@bedamo91]

@@dusk1947 Ah now it makes sense , I've been told as well adding more k+ along with Afr would benefit more, I know Afr already contains some so I'm not sure how beneficial this would be. I currently use Afr, NP-bacto, AB+ and 30% water change bi-weekly.

[@dusk1947]

@@bedamo91 well let's explain the concept differently, we'll use our own species. You and I need the exact same elements to survive. However, say we both ran 5 miles yesterday and sat here today typing and doing nothing. Yesterday we would both have a higher demand for calories and nutrients then today. However, would you and I have the exact same demand? No. We are likley different ages, different body weights, and fitness levels. You may live at sea level and I may live at altitude. We will not match identically on the same day, let alone more than one day. It works this way for every complex organism. What your tank needs is very specific to your tank, it's water volume, the tanks specific and diverse inhabitants, their mass and actively level, and how much energy the tank gets from source like food and light. So, science can determine the elements your tank needs, and can get pretty close to a general estimate of consumption. Just like saying you and I need a "balanced 1,800 calorie diet rich in various vitamins and minerals". That tag line is the additives in this case. I don't know if that mix of products is all your tank needs, if it's insufficient, or if it may be overkill? Only you can do that through regular testing, observation, and maintenance. Though my own experience and the advice from this very channel suggests your on the right path.

[@03bugeye]

@@dusk1947 or you can just get your system on a routine and the corals will adjust.. how many extinctions has the ocean gone through hmmmmmm

[@dusk1947]

@@03bugeye At least 5 extinction events that we know of... The earth has actually had periods in it's history where coral species have entirely died off. The Ordovician-Silurian Extinction Event kill 100% of all corals on earth. Eventually new species evolved over millennia's to replace them. And yes, no shit it should be on a routine and the coral will adjust (thank you captain obvious). As I said, the topic in this video is highly technical, it's a deep level of theory, that is past being useful in day to day operations of our tanks. I didn't pick the video topic. If you want the 1$ general answer, take it up with BRS who published this topic. I was attempting to expand on the deep theory being discussed in a relatable way.

[@kaotichell12]

This video wouldve made sense to me if i knew what the balling method was lol

[@BRStv]

The balling method is simply a method to keep the tank ionically balanced when dosing two part, which results in an increase in salinity over time. This video is a good explanation if you're still confused: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3etd3qspL2Uebc

[@nosumpreefing8287]

Doesn’t bionic have trace additives?

[@03bugeye]

Yes but it's not a complete suite of elements

[@burtminshew4812]

I tell KZbinrs this all the time who have old tank syndrome or STN/RTN. They can't understand. You constantly loose trace elements.

[@derekzen]

So what's the total solution at the end?😂

[@kirkdeshotel2632]

" GOT IT "

[@spicyreef]

OMG u still got it wrong😅.... it doesn't matter how much the corals consume... 10% water change only affects 10% of the water in the tank. ie what if your corals consumed 10 parts one day then you add another 20 corals now they consume 100 parts .... your 10% water change did not all of a sudden jump from replacing 1 part to 11 parts... but ur right, the result is the same anyway... never going to be able to replenish with even 50% water changes...😀

[@dusk1947]

We can get more knit-picky, technically sodium chloride is an ionic compound comprised of two ions... Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Ok, I'm sure you have the aptitude to understand science. You demonstrated that aptitude on numerous occasions already. You just hit the difference between an expert level understanding and a intermediate/hobby level. The only real difference, is time and experience. And likley a few extra college courses. Making it worse, you can absolutely be an expert in one filed of science and the moment you change topics: enough of the vocabulary and socialized ideas changed just enough, where even "expert" stumble. It took an expert in salt water chemistry to notice your "mistakes". Meaning, it was not a sufficient level of understanding for a text book excerpt. But, conceptually it was more than sufficient for our hobby level of understanding. However, thank you for setting the record straight and taking the time to give us all a better understanding.

[@mattb2906]

I don’t think you’d be replacing 10% of what the corals consume by doing a 10% water change, right? I would think you’d just be moving slightly closer to the ideal 70/30 ratio by adding 10% of 70/30 water to the tank: and with a water change, the 30% of elements in that 10% water change would be added “on top” of whatever was in the tank prior to the water change, regardless of whether that was some or none.

[@reeffreak911]

Videos like this are nice but they can complicate stuff for new reeffers ive been growing corals for 13 years and didnt need to know all this science stuff this is the opposite of keep it simple and more money to spend on an unnecessary product

[@rodster44]

Bicarbonates and calcium formate (all for reef) add C02 to the tank. No thanks! If you want a high ph, great growth and easy, balanced dosing, say yes to kalkwasser.

[@BRStv]

or sodium carbonate (soda ash) 🙂

[@michaelross5674]

I'm new and lost ......

[@BRStv]

If you're feeling overwhelmed, just watch the 5 Minute Saltwater Aquarium Guide Series. It's full of short, to-the-point episodes with direct advice and less theory. I'll include a link to the playlist below. Of course, if you have questions, don't hesitate to ask! 🙂 kzbin.info/aero/PLBaMLrfToJyxJ1PuJZwhkxvvdFP14eV_t

[@hawkslayer2351]

So moral of story is instead of buying kalkwasser I should of got all for reef.

[@insectkiller2005]

All for reef wont give you the ph boost that kalk does .

[@BRStv]

You won't get the same pH bump, but All For Reef does have added benefits over Kalk like adding magnesium and other trace elements.

[@PatrickJewellTheGreat]

I use both. At a certain point pH from kalkwasser can take you too high and All For Reef can fill in the alkalinity when the pH ceiling is hit from kalkwasser. That’s what I do.

[@spicyreef]

I'm surprised some of these elements don't precipitate out when mixed in water, is that because the amounts are so small?

[@davidadair5019]

my brain hurts, 1 turbo snail with sugar sand it won't cross to the structure and my tank will be perfect

[@davidadair5019]

and that's it🤣

[@joevasquez1776]

This is why I never listen to people that say "follow the science" them types took the jab and now we know.