Bungie is giving us a reason to care about armor again.

bungie has recognized that the armor grind in destiny currently is void of substance. when codename frontiers launches in summer 2025, bungie is trying to do something about armor by giving it a pretty significant update. here's my reaction to the article along with me getting mad at people complaining that they will have to grind the grind game again.
armor update in frontiers article: www.bungie.net...
edited by: xVauda (twitter/Twitch)
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[@user-ne4ld3jp6i]

The Destiny "It's so over/We're so back" roller coaster is fucking crazy bro

[@dusk2308]

chat we are SO BACK. i mean just look at helldivers II right now "it's never been so joever (over 60 buffs later) we are so back chat"

[@insomniaddictesp]

Yeah, can’t do it anymore. Chill games for fun is where it’s at and Destiny is just not it

[@flamingscar5263]

its why I have just started ignoring 90% of content creators, after 10 years of this cycle you'd think people would get the idea that Destiny will only die when Bungie actually says its over, no matter how bad of a state the game gets, it will come back I'm tired of the overly negatvie community so at this point, I am out, I don't even play Destiny rn but instead of doing what 90% of people seem to be doing and complain/be overly negative, I am just, playing other games (wow crazy concept I know), and once Destiny is back (like it always eventually is) I'll come back, its not worth my time to be angry

[@ethanhensley9355]

@@insomniaddictespdestiny is pretty chill, just brainlessly killing ads doing mechanics that don’t challenge your brain that much. Then you have your occasional raid and dungeon phase where you actually have to think but it’s not mandatory

[@Sensets]

@@insomniaddictesp Cool bro, great insight!

[@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX]

It’s funny that Datto just talked about Onslaught being irrelevant in his last video and we find out today that Bungie is investing into the mode next episode.

[@84m30]

Datto is Destiny “The Simpsons” when it comes to predicting the future. Remember when his raid boss concept became a strike boss in TTK?

[@OBroAnimations]

​@@84m30 I don't know why but when I read "the Simpsons" I read it as 🎶the Simpsons🎶 like the title screen of the show.

[@84m30]

@@OBroAnimations 😂

[@blakeerenhouse943]

Where did Bungie talk about Onslaught in frontiers?

[@Fallak_]

@@blakeerenhouse943 they talked about onlaught today. They are adding 3 maps, enemy factions, defences and a new mode.

[@dankerbell]

the set bonuses sound pretty good, power-creep may be the only fun way up but it's better than sunsetting again, maybe the customisable challenge is just gonna end up way harder than it sounds

[@milii113]

Without removing existing rewards power creep is just a natural process in mmos in order to get people to actually play the game. Imo as long as it's managed relatively well there's no reason to avoid it.

[@Nina-ld7wz]

@@milii113 Agreed, all pressure is really on Bungie to keep the pedal to the floor with rewards. Echoes surprisingly did a decent job of just getting a good chunk of stuff in a run of the activity. People think armor grind but their frame of reference is a point in the game when the rewards and payouts were god awful so of course it felt obnoxious. Things have been steadily getting better especially with war table focusing often giving very high spikey stats, that's good stuff. The only beef I can concede is it is a bit trash how things like raids can give such low stat armor still, nobody wants to do a raid and have 54 stat roll to show for. A new armor system in general isn't a bad call when what we got now is the husk of how much has been gutted, replaced and downgraded over a period of nearly 5 years.

[@VorrtaX]

Honestly, power creep is just "Inflation" but for RPG Videogames. In a flourishing economy, a small percentage of continous inflation is good and healthy to have. Stagnation, or even worse, deflation, are states that you simply do not want, neither in a video game, nor in real life. This is why I always wonder how people can see power creep as something bad. The natural progression of the product, in this case, the video game, depends on upward change and momentum.

[@voltaicwinter9327]

The chat rant is exactly why I refuse to interact with the community as much as possible. So many people are absolute *crybabies*

[@McNightSkull]

Same here, made that mistake with interacting with the community in the bungie forums, and people cannot have a nice discussion and mostly have the "I'm always right," mindset.

[@voltaicwinter9327]

@@McNightSkull It's the same with Final Fantasy 14 too! I hate that it happened, but here we are! @.@

[@Anonymous-bk9xy]

Bouta pop some hot-aired egos by simply having fun with the game. *"Life is haaaaaaaaaaaaard, but we go ooooooooooon..."*

[@cltalt4689]

👏👏👏 facts

[@voltaicwinter9327]

@@Anonymous-bk9xy EXACTLY! Like damn, lemme have fun! Why's *everything* gotta be optimal?? If it works, it works! 😭

[@CGR1410]

Whole lotta “we want D3” mfs are abt to complain about bungie “making old armor useless and making them grind everything over again”

[@sauceinmyface9302]

Because they thing D3 would transfer shit over, when that's probably not how it would work, lmao.

[@CGR1410]

⁠@@sauceinmyface9302not at all how it would happen. All that work for a new game with transferred but also less stuff. Might as well make an expansion. Literally the whole fumble of D2 launch.

[@kalebmoody-felix7896]

There is a massive difference between this and getting a d3. If d3 was made and wiped everyone clean like d2 did with d1, we could still go back to d2! We get to regrind all our armor again without making current armor worthless because we would still be using that armor when you boot up d2 for a bit of nostalgia

[@ArcherJLady]

I want D3, and I welcome the armor changes

[@MaestroEspada]

Preach brother

[@honeyb4dger115]

Please keep calling chat babies for bad opinions its so enjoyable

[@pullthatup2973]

Most are just annoyed at the idea of playing same strikes for 8th and 9th year for a shit drop.. Until recently yall were crying about reskined guns/armor spam, and now its cool just cause they named it differently? Lol Pretty sure this whole thing will have very small impact on general gameplay anyway.

[@honeyb4dger115]

@@pullthatup2973 yall??? not me

[@Luckydave123]

​​@@pullthatup2973welcome to live Service/looter shooter or looters in general. Will you complain running the same Boss 200 times in borderlands, wow, diablo or any other looter for a new weapon/armor or a specific armor/weapon roll ? If not you are picky and just hate because its destiny, if yes, this type of game is not for you. Amd destiny is still really light and time friendly regarding this compared to the other games in the Genre

[@pullthatup2973]

@@Luckydave123 "Will you complain running the same Boss 200 If not you are picky and just hate because its destiny, if yes, this type of game is not for you. " Either way I'm wrong? Wtf are you even on? 7 years of same shit is not 200 runs, its +2k. And stop with this you hate it just cause it's cool. Already forgot where the comunity was months back? Singing another tune now just cause your favorite youtuber is afraid for his career and is also changing how critical and honest he is about the game? Bungie didn't even think D3 was needed, that is how confident they are in their ability to milk every silly goose that bought stuff from prem shop. Lol

[@mikemandeville4680]

So true.

[@Wh1sk3yJack]

Ah, the chat rant. I love your content, my guy, but I can't watch the streams because stream chat is painfully stupid.

[@lordgrub12345]

Yeah, just from the shit I have seen in just fallout's comment section, I have made a binding vow to never interact with this community in any way because they will comment the dumbest shit and will support that idea with even dumber shit. The stuff they say gives me arthritis.

[@nbeutler1134]

@@lordgrub12345reading twitch chat is probably the most efficient method to self-induce brain cancer

[@Tsorer]

it was a select few in the chat that were saying dumb things. Most of the chat were clowning on those people saying the dumb sh*t 😂

[@thecatthatgravityforgot8428]

Datto’s chat is pretty good tbf it’s just during big dev insight articles you get the weirdos coming into chat that are normally never in there

[@BronzeDragon0009]

It's normally fine just don't show up on update or twab day.

[@Spurrrg]

People really just dont want to grind new stuff and instead want to look at the orbit screen for 2 minutes and then close the game.

[@gengarclefairy3475]

Only so many times can they reinvent the wheel. I hope you didn’t waste time grinding for artifice armor

[@ShockStick]

@@gengarclefairy3475 wasting time? bro I used that shit for years already

[@arramiscastellon6168]

I mean how many more years do u want to grind the same “new stuff”? I just think people want more destiny but they’ve had enough of D1/D2 we’ve been going 10 years and honestly the game has lacked innovation or anything ground breaking for the last 5 aside from prismatic. I personally wouldn’t mind the D3 bc Destiny needs that reinvigoration and a new start more than ever.

[@ALittleGreeky]

@@gengarclefairy3475 I've used my artifice armor for YEARS. You have GOT to get over it bro.

[@Luckydave123]

​@@arramiscastellon6168 bro, destiny 3 would be the same, what do you expect them to change with d3 ? Also they will try new things in frontiers and change the UI, what else aside from graphics would d3 do ? You would just regrind stuff for years to come. If you are tired of destiny quit, but your argument does not hold. Its literally just "i complain because i can complain". A mindset d3 would never fix.

[@Tyberes]

Regarding the rant at about 10 minutes: It's always fascinating to see Destiny as the intersection of FPS and MMO player ideologies.

[@TheZarfman]

The Nonstop Agression armor would go crazy with Bows

[@shagnastyfo20]

Wondering if demolitions expert will work with explosive payload/explosive head weapons. The combo of the two sounds fun

[@josuenegron1729]

Yeah but then you have to use bows

[@84m30]

Anyone else _already_ more interested in Revenant than Echoes just based on this? Fingers crossed 🤞the hopium and despair roller coaster continues 😭

[@ricardocarrera9118]

Yea just bc of onslaught

[@carnage9536]

Aren’t the armour changes in frontiers?

[@Goose683]

this is coming in Apollo or whatever the next expansion is

[@84m30]

@@carnage9536 ah yeah. Well honestly just having something tangible to look forward to makes me feel much more hopeful. A refreshed onslaught, a new dungeon, an actual interesting story topic, and the potential return of some sort of PoE thing is a good start.

[@evermoorzknight3685]

Yeah because I need a break from Saint and Osiris. Never liked them and am glad to have some more Crow, Mithrax, and Eido. Unfortunately I will be out of town next week. I have to dodge the Internet until I get back.

[@trunglerfevr]

Loader mods on chest piece. That's something to note, could be you can put whatever mod on any armor piece and not be limited to a specific slot like we currently are.

[@saint-xiv2649]

Very high chance that its just a UI mockup

[@MineralMan105]

Its likely just such an early WIP that they put whatever mods they could to get the idea across. The mod screen shows the chestpiece having 3x Supercharged Glimmer Boosters, which I doubt is going to be there in final

[@chronozon937]

As likely as it is to just be a mock up I think it'd be hilarious to have loader mods on my helmet. Just headbutt the mag into the gun lmao.

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

​@@chronozon937Warlocks: Load the magazine with their mind. Hunters: Bounce the magazine off their helmet and into the gun. Titans: Headbutt magazine into the gun.

[@moondustace5310]

@@chronozon937 Legs: Kick the mag into my gun. Chest: Chestbump the mag into my gun. Class: There are extra mags taped to my cloak, I swish around fast enough for one to come off and fall…into my gun.

[@Ninja_The_J]

So satisfying to hear Datto tell of the people who get all pissy about having to play the game

[@Scyth0r]

Give me something new to play, then. Remixed versions of things you've re-done for a decade to get new stats, to.....do the same limited, remixed content again, but with new stats?Yeah....nah.

[@TheHaggis0451]

​@@Scyth0rDon't play it then, you obviously don't enjoy that aspect of the game

[@neosharkey7401]

@@Scyth0rthe funny thing is they can’t even re mix things anymore.

[@Mikeology101]

I'm a ups driver I work 10 hr days 6 days a week and still get everything I can get in destiny

[@Scyth0r]

@@TheHaggis0451 I don't. I'm one of the people who started at D1 and have now walked away. My Day 1 D2 imported Titan and Warlock sit idle. All the people like me who watch these videos but have given up on the game are why their numbers have plummeted. And this isn't going to bring those people back.

[@cee_ves]

my golf balls have use instead of just playing golf now

[@Travissaur]

Until they don’t again. lol

[@hidude9919]

The special ammo stat might be nice if it makes more double special builds viable again

[@StarWarsBatmanShow10]

This

[@namsu3]

Double special is still viable; this will definitely edge it even closer to where it was before though

[@NikFlyer]

Double special has been viable since armor 2.0 and still is to this day even after brick drop rates nerfs.

[@hidude9919]

No doubt that double special can still be good with certain loadouts like trace/side arm. What im hoping is that this will let more of those niche loadouts that are more ammo hungry like shotty/fusion be good again too

[@Lemon-x-]

@@hidude9919 with the number of self-contained ability loops we have, you can run the ammo hungry options right now. Just a quick example, any combination blow hunter build can run a 1-2punch shotty and another special (probably a sniper like still hunt) and blow through content. All trash mobs will die to your basic ability loop, 1-2 punch helps you deal with bigger targets and still hunt lets you deal with ranged targets easily while also being a boss DPS option, then just rock a rocket or GL as a dual purpose large add clear tool and boss DPS tool. If you start looking at MGs as a heavy slot option then basically every build in the game can afford to run double special with ammo hungry options since MGs are just stupid efficient for add clearing, lead from gold also helps significantly.

[@foist101]

"We need reasons to chase stuff again..." "Okay here's a new reason to chase armor." "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!" The 62 stat roll chest piece you got a year ago to give you 90 resilience CANNOT be the last piece of armor you'd ever need if we want this game to live.

[@junnKhya]

People farmed 10 armor pieces per character, pulled an exotic from collections, and complain about armor updates.

[@lunarHaloh]

People complain about having nothing to do in the game and then when bungie gives us new stuff, they complain about having to do something. Wild.

[@dudenamedryan]

Literally came here to say this. "Bungie hasn't innovated or given us anything new outside of reused assets in years" My guy, you're using 4 year old armor anyways... And there are people that are complaining like "Oh set bonuses, that's not innovating, mmo x does that." Like every game doesn't take inspiration from somewhere. These people need to shut up or go play another game

[@Wongcsable]

The Destiny community has some very splintered opinions that I wouldn't be surprised that the developers have a hard time analysing what's needed and what's not. If you propose something, chances are you'll get a perfect 50/50 split on opinions, one side either agreeing and the other disagreeing. For example you see a lot of people hollering about wanting Destiny 3, and from what I can see, there's a really even distribution of people wanting it because they don't mind a fresh start, and there are people who have grinded a lot of gear + paid for expansions who do. Now I think it'd be really cool if the entire Destiny community merged their consciousness into a single being with a single opinion, like a certain smoky fella

[@Scyth0r]

Can you explain what's new? Isn't this new armour, but not new content? So just using new things to do the same stuff again?

[@SpeedroidTerrortop]

Hate to break it to you, but the point of the game isn’t to fill your vault and stare at your loot. New gear without exciting new content to use that gear in literally does nothing to improve the game. The seasonal activities are boring, the seasonal stories are boring, the entire game is boring. “Go play another game then.” We are. We have been. The dwindling playerbase shows this. The rich lore of the destiny universe is what kept players engaged over the last 10 years, not the loot grind.

[@xNeoNxCyaN]

@@Scyth0rthis doesn’t come out till the next expansion drops, sure old content will probably also get this treatment but the new content we are receiving is also getting this ststem

[@mynameisnoneofyourbusiness8223]

The grind isn’t bad on its own. My problem is that they put some new, shiny object in front of you, have the KZbinrs talk it up, you work for it, get it, and it turns out to be a piece of crap. OR you get it, and it revolutionizes the game for you. But soon after obtaining it, Bungie reviews the stats and says that it works too well and decides to nerf it. Or if it is a thing that you have to demonstrate a certain level of skill proficiency, and the majority of the community can’t get it, Bungie will nerf it in order to feed and burp all of the winers (i.e. the original Luna’s Howl and Not Forgotten). If it works, leave it alone and let it work.

[@foemonkey123]

datto at 12:01 is how i feel. i definitely have my complaints here and there abt the game but people are overly negative these days abt the game. Yes the layoffs due to corporate incompetence are annoying but we still need to give the devs that are left, a chance to succeed. they were thrown into the fire of trying to sustain a hugely enormous and iconic franchise as destiny. I feel like we gotta give them some grace after everything that has happened

[@Jessemar08]

Hell yeeee, i actually love he did that, thats our boy!

[@boysenbeary]

Ill say that farming for new reworked armor is way more interesting than the +10 levels again.

[@mattgibbia2692]

Armor changes are neat and all, but with how shallow buildcrafting in the game is why would I really care?

[@GiffyHD]

the mobility slander is crazyyy, my arc spinny every 5-10 seconds (depending on if armor of light stacks or not) depends on it smh my head my head

[@thecapedcrusader33]

Datto really hit em with Iverson's "Practice. We talkin bout practice. We ain't talkin bout a game. We talkin bout practice" type shit.

[@Blueychocobo]

Felt Datto's rant in my bones. I'm a full time working dad to a 4 year old - I barely have time to play. That said, armor actually being interesting and giving me something to WORK TOWARDS sounds fucking awesome.

[@kadilesco]

Datto roasting the career angry people in the community gives me life, I swear.

[@talentrippin3535]

They are some the worst part of this community

[@edgardiaz9975]

I think the “Special Ammo” stat is replacing Intellect based on context clues. They gave you name changes for Discipline/Strength, Intellect is the 3rd stat for that “group”.(the other group being Mobility/Resilience/Recovery)

[@Ellyark]

It’s a misconception that everyone’s opinion matters equally

[@Travissaur]

Datto’s opinion matters more than others because of the empty heads that literally take his opinion and make it their own.

[@DarkDemon259]

Honestly, they need to take another pass at armor mods. When they revamped armor mods for Lightfall, they got rid of warmind cell mods, elemental well mods and charged with light mods and gave us Armor Charge mods. Which essentially ended up being a barebones charged with light system that had two competing playstyles: either use the charges for utility mods (which got nerfed to irrelevancy) or hold the charges on a timer to make use of surges and stat bumps. The only universally good thing to come out of the revamp was the removal of element affinity on armor pieces since changing armor elements to use specific mods was extremely tedious. They said they were planning on expanding the buildcrafting options but with the exception of powerful attraction and the addition of strand/stasis versions of existing resist mods, they never really did anything or added new armor mods to make mod choices matter in any meaningful way for buildcrafting. Artifact mods seems to have became more powerful to compensate since they go away at the end of the season and you are restrictive. Temporary atrtifact mods are being used as a replacement to what we had a taste of before: new seasons bringing in a new armor mod system that can integrate into existing builds by synergizing with previous mod systems. For example, you could go all in with warmind cells or you could mix in elemental well mods that spawned wells from warmind cell kills. You could go all in with charged with light effects or you could add some elemental wells that gave charged with light stacks on pickup.

[@Mariusweeddeath]

I would love for them to bring back those old armor mods back, but they've said before that they aren't going to and that armor buildcrafting is going to be done through the Artifact System now. Hell, Datto has said this on his vids multiple times. They won't bring those mods back without serious commitment to backtracking and Bungie tend not to do that big of a commitment.

[@Marauders5]

And D2 community is already complaining. Figures. Been using the same armor since Season of Plunder. So glad i can finally yeet that armor off my character and into a dumpster.

[@CGR1410]

@@Marauders5 seeing “deep explorer (limb piece)” on every armor for the last 2 years has been annoying. But that was the most efficient. So glad it’s not the case anymore.

[@BrAtZMMO]

i dont get it, bungie doesnt change anything.. complain, bungie actually try to give us something to do... complain, it makes no fucking sense. I always loved the grind even the power one cause it kept me playing and actually doing something. The community sometimes is so dumb

[@amhenry5465]

I, personally, like the idea of stat changes and reworks, as well as the set bonuses addition to armor, but I don't really think simplifying armor stat rolls really does much to help with the "armor" min-max grind. I think it would be a better idea to go back to the D1 Raid and High-end Content being the way you get the best gear. It could be tiered just like in WoW. You have to do this raid to get this Item Level (Power Level) to be able to get to do the Hard mode of that raid, then once you've done that, and have your "PLVL" up high enough, you can now do the next raid and set of content. The might just be me that remembers that feature we had.

[@ricky_the_b]

The thing about having to grind is if I'm having to grind just to get back to where I was, it's boring and repetitive. But if the grind is to get items that will allow me to experiment with new ways to play the game and delve into new power fantasies, that's what I'm about. Yeah, explosive weapons bonuses might not blow up the meta, but putting together a build to pretend I'm bomber man in the destiny universe? All about it. I have meta builds to crush end game content, I want goofy shit. Bring on the overly-specialized armor sets that actually let you do something different

[@jackjaworski9175]

I think I can see the vision they’re going for on the special ammo stat. You can choose to build into something like double special, but with a tradeoff of longer ability cooldowns or less survivability. I like it!

[@mortison7]

Onslaught deserves an update twice a year minimum. i like the new options in gameplay but i really want new rewards or the option to convert my brave engrams to any kind of engram

[@CGormanR35]

Armor upgrades are fucking solid. Give the Division 2 vibes but with a decent Dev team to actually run it and make it work so much more

[@davedumm5197]

Yea nah Datto on point. MMOs just arent some of yalls game. Just play a different game and stop participating in the community if D2 is so boring and repetitive to u.

[@andy.jehoshaphat]

THIS.

[@thecatthatgravityforgot8428]

After 10 years they’re finally pushing Destiny into a more MMO direction it feels like

[@sparky00777]

Yea if grinding 10 power levels is too much for you then I don't think MMOs are your type of game. (Not to mention Destiny 2 is basically Baby's First MMO, it's the most MMO-Lite experience)

[@Scyth0r]

We did. Which is why their player numbers have tanked. Which is the whole problem. Remember?

[@helengavigan6568]

It is worth pointing out that even the content model makes it fundamentally different. WoW has you grind on major updates with level stuff. Grinding new content with the option of some old. Destiny increases it with seasonal and unless you multi character unlike WoW 90% of the grind is old stuff. That’s why people are fine with level caps for major content drops but annoyed by seasonal Also like yeah actual new stuff like new styles of armour to grind are a hell yeah. But power levels are dumb for seasonal stuff. Love the armour grind being here. Hoping they actually for real this time push people to raids and dungeons rather than “go do engrams at the helm with a ghost mod”. Artifice was an attempt but honestly didn’t matter for anything because there was rarely a situation where you chose a basic stat over a better mod

[@JDT979]

"Why not give us an incentive to grind for new armor instead" is the funniest chat message possible, what do you mean bro, that is literally what this is

[@Room81Ctism]

People who don’t like this change what do you even want for this game?

[@arramiscastellon6168]

Not saying I don’t like this change bc I’ve been saying they need to add armor set bonuses since forever but I think most people are just tired of playing the same thing for 10 years. And it has kinda been the same thing for years. Nothing really new or innovative or groundbreaking has come aside from prismatic. These people love destiny and want more but have had enough of D1/D2. I for one support a D3 in today’s age bc Destiny kinda needs it.

[@RicardoGarcia-rp9pw]

I wish Destiny 2's pvp was more similar to the first game. In D1 you could run a shotgun/sniper combo using either Universal Remote or No Land Beyond, and that wasn't even all that broken within the context of the rest of the sandbox.

[@RaptorRocka]

@@RicardoGarcia-rp9pw ...YOU CAN DO THAT IN D2 WITH MORE GUNS? Dude Destiny PvP has a crap ton of problems. How did you pick the ONE THING that's a non-factor. Jesus. Developers fricken can't listen to their community. You people are certified morons.

[@Scyth0r]

Choice. I want choice. * Let me run strikes solo. Hell, let me try everything solo, and stop randomly locking things like Exotic class items and titles behind specific multi-player-only restrictions (Looking at you Cursebreaker Ahamkara bones & Gumshoe Wellspring ship). * Let me add modifiers to content. Either randomised, or chosen. Give me OPTIONS to spice up the way old content plays. * Let me relive old content. New Players will never know what it is to abandon The Tower after getting our asses handed to us. * Let crafting be for basic gear, and truly powerful equipment be in dungeons, raids or drop-only. I could go on, but this change is a fix to a problem that's about 30 items down the list.

[@dc3725-g6q]

Content. Raids, dungeons, gms, hanging out with the bros. The loot never mattered it was just a means to an end.

[@TheSilversalt]

They've already done set bonuses with tangible effects, it was just for Gambit Prime.

[@Lord1gnis]

You know while I don't entirely disagree with the sentiment of having to regrind my gear is worthless after I spent all this time grinding, that's because, for years now it's been pointless to do so, so everyone is kind of set in their ways of having the best or as close to best, armor as they can possibly get and having to do all of that again with no guarantee that the new system is going to be better, isn't a massive vote of confidence. Everything Bungie talked about sounds good on paper, but it usually does, and then in practice it's fucking horrible and doesn't respect everyone's time investment. If I spend days and weeks grinding the game I expect to make progress consistently, not to spend weeks doing chores for maybe 1 out of thousands of pieces of gear to maybe be worthwhile in some random build

[@Lord1gnis]

As someone with close to about 8-9 thousand hours in the game, it has been so long since I've had a reason to pay attention to any armor, if it doesn't have a minimum of 68 base stats it gets dismantled or infused cause it's otherwise worthless. (And considering the absolute maximum stat total I have ever seen on a piece of armor was 71 on an exotic Xur sold, the options are slim) And don't even get me started on world drop armor AND weapons. If it's not adept or craftable/enhanceable, because first of all almost all perks that roll on guns now are dogshit, there is only ever 1 maybe 2 options worth having and with the low drop chance of specific world drops, most of those aren't worth attempting to farm, nor do they do anything worthwhile I can't accomplish with something else.

[@EYErisGames]

@@Lord1gnis not to mention the world drops don't even have origin traits, so practically any other similar weapon will be strictly better (with few exceptions).

[@Cyclopsgaming360]

I think they are trying to turn some special weapons into primaries which is where the special ammo stat comes from. They did sidearms, handcannons, and now an auto rifle. Maybe special weapons will be more versatile than they already are soon, and ammo will be more necessary.

[@gamingandchill4186]

Datto looking at the WiP set bonuses: “These do be sounding a little tame rn.” my guy ignored that Particle Deconstruction is there for Perk 2 “Nonstop Aggression” but it also works with SGs. HOW IS THAT TAME

[@ruijikisu]

that rant to chat felt so good people want all of the content with no effort and then complain that theres no incentives to play hot take: i also think the shiny droprate in onslaught was fine, it was supposed to be rare, but people just want everything handed to them after playing for a day

[@spencerankley1008]

That rant about playing the game reminded me about Allen Iverson’s practice rant, loved it

[@arramiscastellon6168]

I mean I understand them. Most people just ain’t got that much time to grind. They not wrong for wanting more ease. Especially after D2’s 10 years

[@RaptorRocka]

@@arramiscastellon6168 Dude. This game is easy. I have a job too. I only play like... one every couple weeks now? Guess what? I have my build together. Some people gotta realize that they need to just play some thankless mobile game.

[@TheHaggis0451]

@@arramiscastellon6168 No. If you don't have enough time for the game, then guess what, you don't enough time for the game. MMO's are inherently grindy and require lots of time, with Destiny already being incredibly easy in comparison. Just because you don't have enough time for an MMO doesn't mean that everyone else, that does have the time, should have a lesser experience because of you.

[@randomguy1706]

He's RIGHT about the chat because ALL the community does is be negative and complain

[@CharlesBiffyB]

The armor set bonus sounds sweet. Hopefully they be actual good benefits.

[@jamenfallati3405]

I would guess that the special ammo Stat is specifically for the double special enjoyers. Something to the effect of "fine you can have it but we'll make you build into it".

[@Peart9418]

I think this is one of the best things they could do to armor. It will make new armor coming out exciting too because they can keep adding new set bonuses to chase. Can open a a whole layer to theory crafting every season and prevent staleness. This is a Huge W.

[@EliteEpicGamerz]

"Why dont they just give us an incentive to grind armor" is the craziest thing ive ever heard when talking about an article that is literally doing just that

[@King_Chance]

Datto is SO REAL for that chat rant. Absolutely go off. Destiny players hate nothing more than playing the damn game.

[@Jessemar08]

I do like rant datto, based AF

[@EYErisGames]

wrong. We hate it when Bungie screws up the game we love to play.

[@fakeplasticgamers9850]

In one breathe people will say they want Destiny 3 and in the next complain about having to refarm armor, I don't understand. We're 10 years into this farming game and it still surprises people that they add new stuff for us to farm and replace the old stuff. Go figure. EDIT: I wrote before I got to Dattos rant lol that was beautiful

[@robertpalmer8080]

I can get where they're coming from. D3 would mean a fresh new game. A new armor system may change things up but it also may just wind up doing very little to be worth all the effort and will likely be just another bland grind.

[@fakeplasticgamers9850]

@@robertpalmer8080 I really like the idea of the new armor system. I feel like it will make me care more about drops than right now which is basically "does it have over 20 in the stat I want, if no then delete". And besides, I don't know if that's just me, but I tend to value the new stuff when it comes to choosing what to use and what to keep on the vault. For example, right now, if it doesn't have an origin trait or is not enhanceable it's an instant delete for me. Unless it's a weapon I really care about or enjoy using regardless (like my original Adept Palindrome), I'll just use the new stuff.

[@VII002]

I think people misunderstand why some people are annoyed. The problem isn’t with earning/grinding new gear, it’s a looter shooter/MMO that’s natural. The issue stems from that loot being the exact same loot we’ve already earned for years. It’s not the grind that’s the issue, it’s the lack of Actual New Content/Loot and not ‘behind the scene’ stat changes and bonuses. Number changes and bonuses are not new content. It’s 100% better then nothing at all however.

[@Emma-Lumi]

wish they called special ammo stat something like "Resourcefulness", i know it sounds like they want stats to be instantly descriptive, but i believe some amount of abstraction is necessary for a clean looking game "special ammo" as the name for a stat just feels like a rushed addition

[@EYErisGames]

I agree. Also, renaming the stats because they think we're too stupid to understand that discipline grants grenade ability and strength grants melee ability, is pretty insulting to their player base.

[@deKahedron]

It always made no sense to me that Discipline, Strength and Intellect came from our armour but Resilience (the stat was literally called Armor in D1), Recovery and Mobility were tied to our subclass/training. Like, those two groups seem obviously mixed up, conceptually.

[@flask_of_bean1983]

I like the idea that the armour system is leaning a bit towards what reminds me of 5th gen Mon Hun armour, where a certain number of armour pieces are required to attain a perk threshold. I always liked how integrating those into a cohesive build felt. This felt especially good when they introduced ways for you to get more than the intended number of levels towards a set bonus (like safi weapons rolling with set bonus on them) to allow combinations originally not possible before. If they made it so weapons could contribute towards the set bonus too based on their manufacturer I think that would be cool. E.g tex mechanica weapons come build in with 1 level of a set bonus of the tex mechanica trait. Though I think that the tex mechanica specific part of the set bonus description would be better off as universal, and just easier to attain by using a tex mechanica weapon.

[@yoshi02.]

Its hasn't even been an hour since the live stream ended, good stuff being on top of it !!!

[@Drew4242]

A system I think could be interesting (this isnt perfect just a quick idea and may not even be written out well. Definitely a big change I doubt theyd even consider) is if they tinkered with the idea of non-random stat rolls. So basically you have one core default set of armor and then you get to choose the stats you put in manually and change them whenever you want. Knowing bungie it would be through +3,+5,+10,+15, etc mods for each stat and you can put so many mods into each armor piece (would be cool if you had say 4 slots that can be a mix of stat or reload/resist/etc so you can be stat heavy, effect heavy or a mix like we are now). What would be even cooler in my opinion is a slider that you can invest 1 point at a time in per stat so you can really fine tune where your points are but you have a total amount overall (say starting 200 points so if you wanted you could have one 200 spike, two 100 spikes, or a mix) and then youd have a couple slots for effect mods (say like 2). Finally each armor piece has 1 "bonus" mod slot. This slot allows you to socket an exotic effect or armor bonus effect (like what theyre introducing) obviously being limited to only 1 exotic effect at a time and each armor to its corresponding slot (synthos must be on arms but its the full syntho exotic perk). These exotic perks are only unlocked once you get the exotic mod to drop (or possibly retroactively if you already own the exotic in collections). The class item is a little different where it has 2 slots. Each slot allows for the class item version of the exotic perks (only if you're on prismatic unless they want to change that), limited to what is currently available in their currently available slots or armor bonus mods (so if you wanted full synthos on arms you get 2 armor bonus mods on class item). These exotic perks are only available in the class item slots after getting the class item version of the mod to drop (or a retroactive way could be dismantling a class item with those perks that you currently own) this will also make the class item grind still a rng grind but you only need each perk to drop once (you dismantle a caliban/liar you permanently unlock those two perks). In the future instead of a class item dropping with two perks its just one class item perk so its still a grind and your first weekly completion of the activity is 2 mods (these drops will also be character based since theyre different obviously) something like that this is just a thrown together idea. This system would basically allow you to fine tune your stats whenever you want, have an exotic, and the new set bonuses all without the stat rng (set bonuses should probably be changed to 2 mods for 1 perk and 5 for the 2nd perk or something to compensate for 2 slots on the class item and potentially incentive people to not run prismatic with two exotic perks if they're good enough). So what's the grind? I think you should start each episode with a base amount of stat points (say 200 again) and then you earn more stat points through guardian rank and/or artifact levels and/or random drops (whatever they want to do) but they shouldn't be too hard to obtain since theyre not permanent. They need to be achievable (also limited obviously). Building these stats up obviously makes it so you can build to become stronger for that episode and take on things like dungeons, raids, GMs, etc (light/power level is a thing of the past, get rid of it). Then when the new season drops you go back to the default 200 stats and repeat. You also are grinding to get the new exotic mod perks that you can slot into your armor (or ones you dont have) and the new set bonus mods they introduced that season (these can drop for individual armor pieces at a time so you have to farm for the helmet slot, arms, etc not just one copy) probably from the current activity which is also where weapons would drop from. Most importantly you're farming for the new armor. However the new armor will drop as ornaments so you arent worried about replacing everything youve worked hard for but you can keep the drip alive. Theyd probably have to add the exotics (and their ornaments) as selectable ornaments as well (but only available when the perk is selected) so people can still get the exotic drip if they want and don't feel scammed for past purchases. They can still release their ornaments for silver/bright dust and all that so they can try to make extra money but since people just make all the new stuff into ornaments if they like the look it just feels better to farm for seasonal ornaments and set bonuses than armor you hate the look of for the bonus and then having to grind the armor you like the look of to turn into an ornament. At this point if the activity is fun people will play, if it has new stuff they want they'll play, and if they don't find it fun or there's absolutely nothing they want they dont have to play and won't feel like they missed out and cant come back next content drop because the power level is too grindy or they dont have the meta or whatever. I don't know just a random thought. Could have potential, could completely fail, im not a game designer, especially for a looter shooter, so 🤷‍♂️😂 no matter what I like that theyre trying.

[@flamingscar5263]

THANK YOU DATTO, MY GOD THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE COMPLAINING THAT THEY HAVE TO PLAY THE VIDEO GAME IS INSANE "ohhh Buwngie wont make the game feel fwesh and uqniuw anymowre, booo hooo, the games dead" Bungie: "Freshens up armor to make the game feel new" "Now I gottaw pway the game, WAAAAAA, WAAAAA, screw you Bungie"

[@Scyth0r]

You think "throw away current equipment and do the SAME CONTENT to get new equipment" will make the game feel 'fwesh'? Boy, do you have low standards.

[@reed560]

@@Scyth0r Thats the nature of the game dude. its literally "grind the content till the wheels fall off". Thats what a looter shooter is.

[@EYErisGames]

That isn't what anyone is actually complaining about, but nice straw man.

[@princewanted5021]

set bonuses open a very big opportunity, you have weapon foundries, ofc raids getting their themed bonuses, etc. its going to be interesting seeing what they make of them

[@dockickman7104]

Anyone here after Fallout cuts over to his stream? Lmao

[@Xlaws]

what happend ?

[@justicebrown1077]

They could bring back certain seasonal mechanics that got left behind as armor set bonuses, but in a lesser form than their original glory. Ikelos armor could benefit from Ikelos weapons, and generate Warmind Cells which would be able to apply ignite to scorch nearby enemies. Warmind Cell mods wont be a thing, but you get a little taste of what it used to be, plus maybe a buff to Ikelos Weapons. Apply that to each of the other seasonal armors, on top of the other cool things they could do with it all.

[@RA-dc8ef]

Datto’s rant was the funnest thing I’ve seen in a while. He’s so right, everyone is being ridiculous. The point is to get new things to do in the game

[@robertpalmer8080]

The problem I see is this isn't actually something new to do, it's a place holder at best. What happens in 3 months (tops) when most are done with the grind and have everything they need? Nobody complained about not having to grind for armor before. Maybe it wouldn't feel so crappy if Bungie didn't wait several years to finally do something, but as I said they're doing it now as a place holder. If they think this is bringing people back, they're silly imo. The people who stopped aren't coming back to re-grind armor lol. Might as well ask them to re-grind power, oh wait-

[@Quantum_Magnus]

I think armor archetypes and set bonuses could open up a variety of bonuses and bonus families we haven’t previously seen. For example, I’m hoping we can get an archetype or bonus that reduces explosive damage taken or a set that has an inventory slot built in so you can hold an additional item/engram.

[@CD23_06]

Friggidy frog you datto! I will build 200 mob and bounce like a rubber ball!!!! You can’t stop me!

[@Goose683]

Non Stop Aggression sounds awesome with 1KV

[@dusk2308]

i mean yea aztacross said with vex as well

[@RedNovaTyrant]

I think a great way to change Resilience would be to just give everyone that higher damage resist at base, and make Resil affect the effectiveness of Overshields, Frost Armor, etc. That way, it can still be a stat that influences Titan Barricade cooldown, and have a neat function if you choose to build into it, as well as ACTUALLY MAKING VOID OVERSHIELDS DO SOMETHING

[@hallowjupiter6305]

To his point. This has made me realize, that maybe I really don't wanna play destiny much anymore, and that's ok. I saw the potential grind behind this and my first thought was basically "man, that sounds like a chore." So like, in my case, I'm not gonna fault them for updating things to be more interesting, but I may just not care about it much, and maybe this really is my sign to put down destiny for a while. The idea of further grind in this game doesn't appeal to me like it used to. But, more people in the community need to be ok with not wanting to keep up with that, and just stepping back. Go play other games, it's ok.

[@kajus]

Ngl I'm not exceptionally excited about the armor update but I absolutely don't fault bungie for switching things up bc the problem absolutely is getting new armor drops means nothing once you're set on the armor you've already acquired and incorporated. I will for sure wait and see before I pass judgment on Armor 3.0. If anything, the stick in my craw is just that there is nothing IN the game to help do the math on stat tiers that's available via third party sites like D2armorpicker and DIM and such. That's the laborious part (I play on console; this is probably less of a problem for PC players bc it's just switching between tabs). If they had an optimizer in-game like those sites provide, then the concept of a whole new upcoming armor grind wouldn't feel as daunting. It would just feel like a semi-seamless integration of acquiring new and replacing old sets as you played the game.

[@Xlaws]

what grind there is in this game ? Most activity do not need to be minmax to be able to complet them

[@JQDeathFromAbove96]

Don’t care about new armor Bungo. Bring back warming cells are all the warming cell mods.

[@lucienmoolman8017]

"I want something to grind for" people when I show then something to grind for (they'll just say dead game and continue crying):

[@peacepie5888]

i would find it quite enjoyable if bungie designed new and interactive bosses beyond the final boss encounter of new raids...but redo armor for a third time

[@K0-TICSTUPID]

I'm so tired of the "some people have jobs/families" cope anytime someone brings up meaningful progression &/or difficulty in a game, do these people think prior to 2016 the video game industry got by by exclusively catering to kids & the childless unemployed?

[@olli7881]

PIPING hot take. Bungie should completely gut and restructure damage perks. Like bring us down to three-ish damage perks, like Rampage, Frenzy, and maybe Swashbuckler. Damage buffs should be earned. It would make those perks MUCH more valuable, and make us more likely to experiment and mix up our perk options.

[@snwlprd]

Datto with an Allen Iverson impression. “We talking about playing the game? Play the game? Can’t believe I gotta play the game to play the game.”

[@Coff33Drink3r02]

If the armor set buffs reach into the 15% - 25% range- Fucking banger

[@IMrAverage]

Anyone complaining about having to re-farm armour after armour has been pointless to farm for nearly 2 years needs to stop playing Live Service games lol. All my old armour is going in the BIN as soon as I possibly can justify getting rid of it all.

[@Scyth0r]

Do you not understand? We HAVE stopped playing. Which is the whole problem they're trying to fix. You think they make changes like this for no reason? They're making changes to try and bring people back to play the game, and were saying this isn't going to do that.

[@mikeymckenna740]

found it interesting that the flavour text for chesty was claws of ahamkara and the build is all strength (200 giving high chance to give two melee charges) fun tidbit

[@comeheathens]

Datto going in on people using "We have jobs" as a reason they don't wanna have to play the game is peak.

[@christhiantrevisan8084]

Love how this community works Players: grind is not intereresting, please something to make loot more interesting to grind for *Bungie does something Players: WTf are they doing, I dont wanna grind for things again 😠 😤

[@window9213]

My only issue being is that I specifically cattered my armor farm for triple 100s and I am not down for refarming artifice armor.

[@icarusrising2787]

You can still use what you have and you don't have to farm for what's better if you don't want to.

[@window9213]

@@icarusrising2787 except the new armor you have to grind is going to be better

[@icarusrising2787]

@@window9213 welcome to live service gaming

[@window9213]

@@icarusrising2787 I've had this artifice armor for 2 years.

[@DoctorPunch66]

@@window9213that’s super awesome. It should stay the best gear for the next 10 years of updates so you don’t have to do anything. Most other games don’t let you upgrade, you just have to keep getting the new gear when it comes out.

[@adummy9664]

I feel like people are glossing over the fact that second Nonstop Aggression perk is basically giving us Particle Deconstruction back again, like it obviously isn't going to be as strong but getting an effect like that back in the game in some permanent fashion is really cool and I can already imagine going something like running that with Vex Mythoclast and maybe even Rain of Fire and just going full Fusion mode.

[@Fndlord]

It’s not that we don’t want to have things to GRIND for. We absolutely do. The problem is, when they INCENTIVIZE us to RE-GRIND stuff we have already figured out years ago. Back when armor 2.0 was announced, yeah, it was a bummer, and we got over it. But again bro? For MINIMAL upgrades? We’ll still do it, but it just feels dumb.

[@OData500]

Ngl, my knee-jerk reaction when I heard about this earlier is that it's going to be a massive pain to re-grind out a strong armor set, especially given the huge range of possible armor value drops currently and rarity of stat totals that would give me actual benefit, BUT Now that I've let it sit a bit and internalized that: - Every point matters now - Stats are being reworked a bit to make every stat actually valuable (hopefully) - Set bonuses sound like they could be actually good if the values are worthwhile I'm pretty excited for the change. It's gonna let me hopefully actually fine tune my builds further into the ways I want to play. Maybe a little copium filled, but we'll see how things go when they drop uh. Next year.

[@SmolShippie]

That actually puts into perspective why people are angry, they are still of the mindset that "getting armor will be as painful as it is right now"

[@gengarclefairy3475]

@@SmolShippieit will be. How do they expect us to get a full great armor set for its trait when most are random world drops? Sounds just as tedious as getting a pinnacle to drop in the right slot, if not more so

[@Luckydave123]

​@@gengarclefairy3475 brother, pinnacle Grind is fucking piss easy nowdays, armor Grind is non existant, idk what game you play or if you only play patrols but armor is dropping way too much in most cases If i run a dungeon or a raid all i hear from players is how they are annoyed when armor drops because its useless af, that is not a good system, this is a good system. Imagine you have to Grind in a fucking looter shooter. Why do people play a looter shooter when they dont want to Grind, especially since destiny is still one of the most time friendly looter shooters compared to the rest of the looter games.

[@SmolShippie]

@@gengarclefairy3475 You are actually unhinged, get lost

[@Xlaws]

@@gengarclefairy3475 you can litteraly focus the exact armor piece with a way to influence what stats will be the dominante one with no restriction

[@robertpalmer8080]

I feel like the only thing that makes this kinda hurt is the fact that Bungie waited for years to decide to do anything, so we've gotten used to the way things are. So now they're trying to revamp and given the track record of armor drops, I'm not confident it'll be a very fun or engaging grind but I'll be glad to be wrong.

[@FrostReach66]

“RAHHH why is Bungie making me play their game!?!”

[@liquidrufus]

The act of grinding is part of a looters shooters appeal so I don't get the whining either. Hope the gameplay is fresh too, otherwise the process of grinding is devalued.

[@wxl2562]

​@@liquidrufusthe concern is definitely more the fact that the content offered in Echoes mostly sucked mad butt. People don't want to re-grind existing content they've done thousands of times, but also grind content that isn't appealing to them. The seasonal content really hasn't been that great, this past year was kind of mid and tbh TFS didn't make me want to play more, it wasn't neccesarily a "bad" DLC, but Bungie has left a lot to be desired. This is a great change, it'll incentivize those that are staying to play a little bit more and gives new life to existing content. All that being said, people also aren't happy about the future DLC layout and lack of potential content. They delivered a VERY underwhelming anniversary "event" (if you can even call it that) and people want them to be more open about the future of this game. That's not even mentioning the fact that people aren't directly asking for a "Destiny 3" but a LOT of people HAVE been asking for a remaster or modern "upgrade" and / or PC port of D1, as well as some sort of spin-off title / additional game content not directly died to the main story. It's not ALL about the grind, people just want a fun game to play and D2 really hasn't been that for awhile.

[@pullthatup2973]

That exotic class item mission was FUN so grind part was not an issue, problem is when you play same 7 year old slop and you aint even thinking about it but going through the motions. They need to boost drops across the board drasticly or make new missions for this armor to be farmed in, sadly they won't be doing either 'cause its cheaper and to have you snooze though Red war strike for 2000th time while boosting games' playtime stats.

[@Luckydave123]

​@@pullthatup2973 wait.. so people want all the old stuff back in the game but dont want to play all the old stuff again to get gear despite new gear mostly dropping from new activities so people just get mad to be mad ? Sounds like the destiny community to me

[@pullthatup2973]

@@Luckydave123 Huh, why do they want that back? Cause new player onboarding is shit now and have been for years. Pretty sure Datto has made same point before. Wouldn't be surprised if people enjoyed legend modifier on those old campaign missions and especially so if new loot was in there.. But you are confusing strikes that have been left in game and campaign missions that were removed. Shadowkeep and Beyond light will be taken away soon, so what's left there to get people hooked? Premium shop? And I wasn't even arguing for bringing old shit back, I said give us new fun missions. Exotic class item mission was fun, battlegrounds were mid and crafting weapons don't help those activities stay relevant at all.

[@itsmehere1]

I think instead of making each stat value do something they should have made it where stats only drop in values of 10 again, that would make builds so much easier to create and would make things way less confusing/complex.

[@ArtIsLifeninty]

cant believe they're trying me to PLAY THE GAME! love Datto

[@JeffKryger]

I do think Destiny needs to learn more into the MMO aspect when it comes to armor. Meaning that the raid armor (and bonuses) is the best, dungeons second, vanguard 3rd for PvE, and then Trials/Competitive/Crucible for PvP. And basically each new expansion/season you need to get the new armor to complete the new stuff. You can do it without it, but it is way harder until you get more of the end game armor.

[@peacefulhoovy1999]

Can't wait for the new armor. I've been using the same few armor pieces for years.

[@gunmaster260]

Random note about the Tonics you mentioned. They sound cool, but the problem is when Episode 3 comes out and all those artifact perks go away, the tonics become useless.

[@Iceburg2355]

Naw fuck it sunset the old armor. I havnt changed a piece of armor in years

[@dusk2308]

bold...i mean dude "PEOPLE PAID MONEY FOR THE ARMOR!?!?! (like 2 or 3 years ago) and they just removed it" and to those mfers out there then just don't agree to the EULA my guy cause if you don't accept it they just revoke your access to THE GAME.

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

Valid take, if a little disheartening since one of my first godrolls was a borderline perfect Hunter helmet.

[@RoboThePanda]

i want tyson green to make red war and forsaken playable through cloud content if they have to. it’s such a massively important time to understand destiny and its characters (especially cayde and even more so with him being in final shape)

[@motesquid]

I love when Datto rips on bad takes

[@EYErisGames]

The whole point of a grind game is that the grind actually amounts to something. Effectively making the results of our grind obsolete is not a good feel. Bungie has always done this and their player base has never liked it.

[@andy.jehoshaphat]

I feel like the people who are complaining about having to grind for gear in a game that's all about grinding for gear are just internet trolls now. Their opinions don't really matter to me when all they do is whine and complain.

[@horrorfan1415]

“Everyone builds into resilience” …. Not me making the absolute squishiest hunter builds that ever exist… I for one have no issue running tier 4 resilience if it means I have max mobility or discipline. Why do I need max resil if I can just go invis or jump quickly away from the damage?

[@jeremiahfielding283]

Waaaa there's not enough grind anymore, later, Waaaaa I don't want to grind new armor.

[@incendiarypoprocks8700]

Okay consider that, aside from the SMALL group of goofs saying both, maybe these are two distinct populations? Appeasing one group by treadmilling the game more is gonna piss off another group, and removing “grind” and layers of RNG is gonna piss off the other.

[@jeremiahfielding283]

Soooo.... do nothing then?​@incendiarypoprocks8700

[@incendiarypoprocks8700]

@@jeremiahfielding283 no, “do nothing” is such a strawman. Better solutions would be to let both options to acquire gear exist (hardcore grind AND deterministic paths), and let players choose the way they want to go. If someone looses their mind at the deterministic path *existing* because it makes them not want to grind anymore, that is their own personal problem. Also, biggest thing about the “so do nothing??” crowd is that no, obviously not. Don’t do nothing, do *better.*

[@jeremiahfielding283]

@@incendiarypoprocks8700Do better? Who are You, who are so wise in the ways of business to come up with the perfect plan for the future of destiny. All Bungie needs to do is be better.

[@incendiarypoprocks8700]

@@jeremiahfielding283 damn, y’all are so hostile towards anyone that even seems they disagree with bungie lately. Like, totally uncritical. I didn’t say THIS CHANGE is a bad one, or that they should do nothing, just stating that there’s two separate groups of people that want separate things. That’s why there’s such conflicting “whining” about changes. There’s a way to make changes that appease both groups, but Bungie wants to cater to the MMO crowd more. And that’s fine, they just need to understand that it’ll hurt their onboarding efforts and drive the other group further from the game. If the new system is built better than other RNG-heavy grind systems, it may not do that. THAT is what I mean by “do better.” The game is struggling rn. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that.

[@danieldacorte8000]

People hate that they get more grind b/c this was done so late. They only started making vital changes like this when the content pipeline ran dry. I would've hated Lightfall a lot less just for the next gen armor

[@roguedeathangel]

I don't comment often but Datto's chat rant is fucking BASED.

[@ponttepontte4032]

I've been thinking this for a while. just a rid of resilience,recovery and mobility and make a class ability stat instead. That would make the game more balanced and consistent across the board.

[@blakeerenhouse943]

For the people don’t think this will incentivize getting new armor or even think it’s a negative change, what do you even want Bungie to do? Major improvements to how stats work and real set bonuses. It’s not like you even need to engage with it; if you really don’t want to farm them, old armor will still literally be in the game. I really cannot find even a single good reason to be complaining about this article.

[@EYErisGames]

Read the comments. Datto, and many people here, don't really understand why people are actually complaining. I, personally, like the sound of the armor changes (mostly), but don't like it that Bungie always tries to force these things, artificially, instead of letting things progress naturally. For example, Bungie never lets the game settle on a true metagame. They are always making sandbox changes in an attempt to control the metagame. That's not how it should work. The metagame is about equilibrium states, while Bungie purposely disrupts the equilibrium. Also, making old gear obsolete, simply to give players something to grind, for the sake of grind, isn't enjoyable. We want to keep what we worked (and paid) for.

[@blakeerenhouse943]

@@EYErisGames What would “letting things progress naturally” instead of artificially mean? It’s not just “for the sake of grind” as well, it’s literally just a game wide update to make armor not completely pointless to chase. Pretty much all of the issues you mentioned do not apply to these armor changes too. Everything you have will still do functionally the same thing. The grind isn’t just because, the new armor is actually worth getting. The game gets boring when one meta remains intact for too long anyways.

[@EYErisGames]

@@blakeerenhouse943 well, assuming proper balancing, all games will settle into a Nash equilibrium of optimal strategies in a zero sum game. Balancing the meta game is not to make rock more effective than paper, but to notice that when your opponent tends to play rock, it's a good strategy to play paper. Bungie never really lets that happen. First, it's never been balanced towards being a zero sum game. There's always been imbalanced optimal strategies that Bungie devs implement on a whim, instead of the strategies becoming the meta game naturally.

[@blakeerenhouse943]

@@EYErisGames the very nature of live service games makes an equilibrium state practically impossible and also boring for the player for a game like Destiny. There is no rock paper scissors for destiny because that would require more defined play styles and more combat variation which. Not to mention, any time there is some sort of benefit that incentivizes certain build aspects (like surges), people complain that it constrains build crafting to whatever surge. Players figure out the optimal strategies/builds for content so most immediately so there is also not much room to have metas develop like that naturally over time. If something is powerful, it will remain just as powerful as it is unless Bungie does something to adjust it and vice versa.

[@EYErisGames]

@@blakeerenhouse943 that's what balancing is for. I'm not saying they shouldn't balance the game. I'm saying they shouldn't artificially influence the meta game.

[@vita4657]

Bungie should take a huge leaf out of the division 1 and 2s book with the armour bonus sets. Those games are godly when it comes to perk combos and gear sets

[@ctrlcf]

Honestly as soon as I saw the set bonuses that was the first thing I thought of