Buying a plane for ATP time building

Buying a plane for ATP time building? Should you buy a plane to reach atp minimums or build hours towards other ratings? I talk about my experience time building in my plane towards atp minimums. If you enjoyed the video and want to follow along my time building journey subscribe!
Why I bought an Ercoupe: • Why I bought an ercoup...
Instagram: @somerisingsun / somerisingsun

[@timnell207]

I’m a retired AF pilot and soon to be retired Captain from a major US air carrier. I encourage you to build time with a purpose and a mission. Try to operate to set SOPs and on a schedule as much as possible. Laps around the pattern are fine, but cross country with a specific mission will teach you much more.

[@bryonraper3506]

Very wise words.

[@jimmyjim7858]

Me and 3 other guys split a 150 and it was definitely a good decision for me. Built some time and now I am flying part 135.

[@joewilliams4142]

The best part, you have a good dog ! The rest will happen on its own.

[@risingsun_]

hahaha he was behaved for the video, after the video no promises haha

[@AeroRamer]

@@risingsun_ He is just happy thinking you are talking to him all the way. He is thinking that you really pay attention to him.

[@ezeikelgundelfinger9135]

I like the way you have researched the issue and made a choice, your choice... I am also a brand new, Ercoupe owner... I too took the risk and am learning to fly in a 76 year old airplane...

[@risingsun_]

That’s awesome! It really is a great plane to learn in!

[@Nate-ph5gc]

Awesome video bro, I am motivated to take that same route. Ain't nothing like owning your own plane and flying whenever you want to. Gaining experience, being safe and having a good time 😏

[@PaperPilotJack]

I'm 47 and just recently decided that I should go after my atp. Fortunately I made a lucky decision to purchase a plane about 7 years ago which has since netted me about 350 hrs of flight time thus far. Now that I'm going after the airlines, I'm in a similar boat as you... getting as much hours in as short of time as I can without going with the CFI Flow... although I think I will still get my CFI rating to be able to get hours for my son while I'm. building mine. good luck to you. I just subbed.

[@risingsun_]

That’s awesome! Good luck on your time building!

[@niinjoosum]

Got my ercoupe and ended up keeping it for 17 years and put over 900 hours in it. Cheapest, least expensive and fastest way to build hours. Burned 5 gallons an hour, low cost annuals and great adventures. Plus you have the satisfaction of owning a classic and making a ton of friends every time you stop at any airport. But be careful I ended up restoring mine. I don't resent it because you end up being a caretaker of a classic on the cheap lol. But you will get your initial investment back. Plus you will get great parking at Oshkosh. You may go faster and further in other planes but an hour of flying an ercoupe is the same as an hour in anything else but cheaper.

[@risingsun_]

Very cool! I agree, maybe I’ll make an Oshkosh trip this year :)

[@jeromes5141]

So I went through this phase in 2020. After getting my CPL at the end of 2018, I couldn't get a job with 268tt. Renting was $130 at the time for the cheapest C-172 which was always booked or down. The rental price went up since then. Now I got a sick Mooney M20C. 1st year I flew 58hrs and last yr I only did 17 hrs. This was because I got my CDL-A, got into trucking, then started my own company. The plane recently came out of annual and it was almost 6k. In comparison to the last annual. Right there some of my budget went into the annual. I am considering the CFI route lately in order to boost my flying hrs. Avgas is also expensive in the NE. Love what you are doing👍.

[@njbpaul]

thanks for posting . you are ahead of the game doing it this way

[@briank3754]

Great video! I got my commercial multi in 2007 and have been out of aviation for the most part since then. I’ve had a great career in a non-pilot aviation career. But, I have been looking at building time and getting my self back to a commercial level and potentially getting my CFI. I plan on getting the CFI for the experience and to have the credentials. But I am also going to get a plane. I only want to get to 750 TT and have a few leads to fly some 135 for a year or two once I get to 750 to get to 1500. I will be flying 250 hours over the next two years on my own. In part for the experience and in part because I’ve always wanted to. The thought of instructing for 2-3 years just isn’t for me. There are many ways to build quality time that don’t necessarily include being underpaid at some pilot farm as an instructor. All the best to you and I will subscribing to follow your journey.

[@Custercounty01]

A few thought about this: It seems that if one buys an airplane to get primary flight training in (PPL) it rubs all the CFIs and flight school owners the wrong way because one is somehow "cheating" by not renting a ratty C150 for $120/hr. If on top of that you buy an experimental, because its about 50 years newer along with the engine and equipment in the cockpit then that simply confirms that you are a nut job that has a death wish and all other aviators are to be aware of your N number and keep away from you. Long story, I bought a 2007 Arion Lightning for my wife to train in because we had no proper flight school at our airport, just a flying club. In the summer it was very difficult to rent a pane at the flying club because there were 80 members and 2x C172s. I do believe they were the cheapest C172s one could rent in the state of MI. To start out they were less than $100/hr wet, but that had to be increased with the huge spike in the price of 100LL. Today they are $110/hr. I then posted on FB Group "Michigan Fliers" that I was looking for an instructor to train my wife in this airplane. Bear in mind a Lightning is a 40kt to 130kt airplane. Not a 200mph Lancair or Glassair. Fixed gear. Jabiru 3300 engine direct drive. Really not very exotic, no dangerous flight characteristics. Boy, that got me a lot of hate on that forum. Frankly I believe that any CFI I spoke to was pressured to boycott us. We had literally dozens of WMU CFIs decline to fly us. We got 7 hours of training in the entire 2022 season. The airplane costs us $30/hr to fly with 100LL or even better UL94 at a bit over $6/gal. We do not have a note on the plane. We have no hull insurance, until my wife graduates and gets up to a few hundred hours the insurance cost is near $7000/yr. We are not going to play that game. But with the low cost she can afford to fly literally hundreds of hours compared to renting. This year we are already in June and just had the most recent CFI candidate bail because he is moving to TN. We have found a flight school not to far away whos name I will not mention, who has offered to train us in our own airplane under certain stipulations. So we are making a late start but still plenty of time in the season to get the PPL done. After that its only going to get easier since my wife can fly to any regional airport to get instrument instruction etc and commuting hours by road will be eliminated. This next winter I will install an IFR panel with brand new avionics t bring it up to date 14 years, at a fraction of the cost the certified people have to pay. That should take her through IFR and Commercial rating as an airplane with advanced avionics and autopilot. Its not going to be easy. The flight school folks will hate on you as will a lot of instructors who have $100K+ student loans from getting trained in Cirrus SR20's. But it can be done. When you are finished you have the full value of the airplane. They have loans that need to be repaid. You have options. Time building at $30/hr ?

[@JD96893]

I was going to mention something similar in regards to experimental LSA! They are very cheap to own and rent, and there are several outstanding manufacturers with a very good reputation. Jibiru engines in particular are up there with continental and lycoming. I have heard of some amazing TBOs. Rotax as well has some great stuff. If you are really worried about experimental LSA you can take the LSA repairman course and learn this stuff yourself and then do a prebuy inspection. I think this is the time building option. As for getting the ppl I'd say use what is available but try and do it in a LSA, rent is cheaper.

[@santociulla9246]

This is a great video with a good perspective. I am about the same age as you and already have my private but have only flown to stay current since graduating college a few years ago. I've been thinking of going to an accelerated flight school or buying my own budget plane to build my hours quickly to eventually become an ATP.

[@tjflynn1014]

This is in 100 percent alignment with my thoughts. I have no interest in teaching, but find owning, flying x-country and logging hours sounds much more attractive than what a CFI/CFII/MEI does on a day-to-day basis. The thing that you mention regarding selling the plan and getting your money is important, I mean, for the short amount of time you will own this aircraft, it will hardly depreciate.

[@ronaldcampbell17]

This will be my path too. Thanks for your level headedness chat.

[@risingsun_]

Awesome, always here to chat 🤙🏽

[@upoutandaway]

I was thinking the same thing…get in one and go…fly as much as you can and then sell it at the end.

[@sofloemir]

I am in a similar boat. I know since the creator of this post sold his plane. the annual in that plane will be anywhere from 2k to 6k hoping the engine doesn't need to be overhauled. it costs 30 dollars an hour in gas, but you need to put aside 30 bucks in "annual reserves". that's about 60 a month soloing it. I can buy 100 block hours in a IFR rated '61 172 with G5s for about 115 which brings me to less than 60 bucks an hour, and there is always willing to share time with me as safety pilot bringing my cost below 60 an hour. and I don't have to worry about the pane having issues. I'm not paying for repairs. I decided against a 150 or a ercoupe simply because if you find the right plane (150s are even cheaper if you can find a small person to fly with, bringing your cost down to 40-50 an hour) you can make it happen even easier

[@FamilyManMoving]

Seriously considering getting a plane. I am getting my PPL because my 15 year old is in CAP and Sea Cadets and working towards her PPL; my son will follow her. My goal is letting the kids practice/build hours and experience at a better cost. Plus...we would have a plane. Scheduling has been the huge holdup for me in my training - I am in a major market and it's tough getting time with the plane and CFI. I don't want an ATP, but might aim for CFI. I think having a plane will let the kids build skills faster and cheaper, even if it's not "CFI time". Great video, thanks for your take. One thing you might want to consider: that leash might get snagged in an emergency when you need to exit fast. I teach my kids to think of the worst thing that can happen, and plan around it. This might be such a case.

[@risingsun_]

It’s definitely the cheapest route and the access is also a plus as you mentioned. My wife and i have had many conversations about when we have kids that age we will get a plane for them because it will open up some many doors if they choose to start at an early age. Cost alone for them would be huge. As it sits right now 200 hours is 32000 in just plane rental(160). Where 200 hours of gas/operation cost owning is (30) is 6000. Good point on the leash.

[@rmshivo]

Thanks for sharing. Out here in Africa the opportunities and options for aviation are pretty slim. When able, i believe owning a plane is the most rewarding route any place, any time.

[@User-jr7vf]

And to think that I was considering going to Africa when I got my private pilot license haha here in Brazil the world of aviation is extremely hostile to new pilots.

[@rmshivo]

@@User-jr7vf the opportunities for training, i should say....but you can get jobs with much less training

[@ahmadsamadzai8255]

Well, I am 47 with 350 hrs under my belt. Just bought a C150J this week and am planning on having 1200 by Christmas of 2024. Guess I am following your footsteps. Hoping the plane holds up without any major Mx issues. 🤞

[@risingsun_]

God speed!

[@bryonraper3506]

Airlines are hard up for pilots right now and that might work. “Bought an airplane to build time” or “dad bought me a plane to build time” up until the shortage was a kiss of death at an interview. I personally have flown extra trips for months in order to avoid hiring an airplane owner “building time to get there”.

[@maritestaylor8458]

Thanks great video.

[@michaelgill7248]

I think you made a good choice. CFI the student is doing the flying. With your plane, you are doing the flying! Plus you're not just going around and around in the pattern, you're flying a lot of cross country.

[@risingsun_]

Good point! I really don't fly unless its cross country time at this point, trying to make every hour quality hours :)

[@martinbguk]

Love your dog man.

[@risingsun_]

He’d probably love you too 😂

[@johnmajane3731]

Another way to go is get your commercial rating, get your tailwheel endorsement and tow banners. You will gain many many hours in a short period of time and be paid for it.

[@classyraptortactical]

Thanks for the advice!🎩🇺🇸

[@ericdrews5050]

Don’t forget that if you hit the job market a year ahead of those in the “flow” that is $40k in your pocket. It pays to be early!!

[@risingsun_]

Exactly!

[@Meowairn]

I had a stuck valve it sucked i thought it was carb ice. But it was a stuck valve. I quit using 100LL I use Mogas and my hangar neighbor has used Mogas and he is on his 3rd engine all went past tbo. I’ve not had a problem since *knock on wood

[@lopesanderson19]

“Look ma! No feet!” 😊. Jk. Jot sure if your model has or no rudder pedals.. great video though!

[@TheBarzook]

This is such a strange system where hours spent in a 150 for 500 hours is worth the same as spending 500 hours teaching. From my point of view, you always personally understand deeply a lot more a concept when you teach it. Flying around in a fixed gear/fixed prop, for me, is not the same quality of hours. I understand that when you are a CFI your cross-country time will be very low, but still, the best solution is probably a little bit of both. I totally understand that choice though, I don't think I would be a good teacher and I'd prefer spend money on gas just flying by myself to build time. But to be honest if I'm an employer, with 2 500 TT guys in front of me, I think I would go with the guy who did some instructing.

[@joeskurkis]

I'm an instrument-rated pilot here in Orlando working on commercial. Happy to fly with you and split time anytime you'd like. Just reach out.

[@ebinrajmon5532]

That’s one lucky ass dog. Aviator Dog 😂

[@YaceYoung]

What did your engine do when your carburetor was crapping out?

[@risingsun_]

Nothing. Carb would just leak gas when the engine was off if the nose tank wasn’t closed.

[@wesleysims5435]

How are you approaching your twin engine ratings?

[@risingsun_]

I am lucky enough to have access to a multi and know an mei

[@justusphillips9059]

Hey so it sounds like you've had a good experience time building with your own airplane. Do you think it's worth it to buy a Cessna 150 to get to ATP minimums? I need 1300 more hours. Side note, I would love to time build with you and split the costs. Thanks!

[@risingsun_]

I’d highly recommend that, you’ll get there faster/cheaper/and have more fun

[@justusphillips9059]

@@risingsun_ Great thank you. One more question, how much maintenance do you pay for on average for every 100 hours?

[@risingsun_]

@@justusphillips9059 5 bucks an hour

[@justusphillips9059]

@@risingsun_ Thank you sir!

[@GodDammMarine]

My answer is yes! In my first 10 years of flying & renting I logged 700 hours. My 1st job, traffic watch in L.A. netted me just lessthan 800 in one year. When I did the math of my first 700 hours of renting, I paid enough to buy two C-172's. I could have flown & rented them & made money. Mind you this was 2004 when I figured this out.

[@joewilliams4142]

Oh yea…..DO NOT burn 100LL all the time. These old Conts. Don’t like it. Use MOGAS at least 50%. I replaced two cylinders because of the carbon….

[@ezeikelgundelfinger9135]

In Calif you are lucky to get gasoline... you sure can't get mogas to use in an airplane... 'alcohol'

[@romerobinson8279]

How much does it cost to leave your plane at the airport?

[@risingsun_]

Depends on the airport, but 50 a month in my case

[@romerobinson8279]

@@risingsun_ wow that’s a steal it seems like. So I’m highly considering starting my aviation journey and buying my own plane like you. What would be a good price for one? I don’t need anything fancy but at the same time I don’t want to buy a ticking time bomb lol but I don’t want to spend 100k either. I’m from western nc if that changes anything

[@risingsun_]

@@romerobinson8279 if you’re planning on making it a career go ahead and look for something ifr rated (even if it’s basic ifr) it’ll save you more in the long run and it’s a good safety backup. I would expect you can find a good plane for 35k give or take

[@romerobinson8279]

@@risingsun_ thank you so much for the reply! Very helpful. Last question and I’ll quit bugging you lol. By the time you reach your 1500 hours how much will you have spent on fuel do you think? Isn’t that a big cost vs going the cfi route that being paid for?

[@risingsun_]

@@romerobinson8279 if I didn’t split a single hour with anyone I will have a spare about 20k on gas. The question is less about money and more about time. sure you can go to CFL I route but odds are you’re gonna have to spend three years just to get your hours or you could spend a little bit of money and be at a job in a year. Not to mention most cfis make annually less than minimum wage. For my situation, I don’t have the time to wait that long to get into this career and spending a little bit of money now to get there faster and have more fun doing it was a no-brainer.

[@marcus1800]

Do u own ur plane?

[@risingsun_]

Yup