C.S. Lewis and Predestination | Doug Wilson

Doug Wilson answers the question of whether or not CS Lewis believed in Predestination. The answer might surprise you!
If you'd like to see the rest of this incredible conference please head to Desiring God's KZbin page here: • What God Made Is Good ...

[@armandonunez9005]

I cant believe it has been almost a decade since this conference. I remember being there with my brother when we lived in North Dakota. We were both single, now we are both married and have kids. This was the first time I heard of Doug Wilson and it was also the beginning of my Journey with him, reading, listening to sermons and whatever else he has been a part of. I was so blessed by this lecture many years ago and still am today.

[@roxannelain7138]

And all will cry out, this is the best story ever written! I’ve been down a DW rabbit hole for about 2 years and this is among his best. And it coincides with my current CS Lewis rabbit hole!

[@ThePattersonPod]

I love the response that Pastor Doug gives when a student answers Romans 9 by saying, “But I’m not just a clay pot!” Pastor Doug makes a great point that he’s never had someone object because God is far more than merely a potter. Great way to put things into perspective!

[@newmannoggs]

Yep, if anything that simply strengthens the point that God's interactions with us are different from those of a human potter shaping an inanimate piece of clay. The very emphasis on the greatness of God elevates rather than denigrates the "clay" he is working with, because we are (even in our fallen state) made in His image, and he always treats us as such.

[@kennybo8722]

@Akka Lange how?

[@duncescotus2342]

Wit is not the same as honesty.

[@donalfoley2412]

I am a bad catholic, but a catholic, and listening to you is like a breath of fresh air and reasonableness. Thank you. Buíochas le Dia. Very cool.

[@donalfoley2412]

No less catholic all the same.

[@magalikent8189]

Thanks for posting.

[@Chuck_McDon]

"All resolved, and no remainder!" What a beautiful sentence.

[@duncescotus2342]

"Resolved" is not exhaustively predetermined.

[@BrianReplies]

This has to be one of the Top 5 presentations I have ever heard. And I have heard a fair share of Sproul & MacArthur presentations.

[@beanbag345]

Really enjoyed this, thank you

[@exploringtheologychannel1697]

Fantastic!

[@gordonduffett5138]

Love this man.

[@jackuber7358]

Money quote, "I'm glad we had this chat..."

[@jackuber7358]

Okay...better money quote..."Amenian Daisy...He loves me, He loves me not..."

[@_lithp]

I was here.

[@Fardawg]

4:14 It's actually "excluding drama," not "including."

[@johntobey1558]

Belfast roots would be good ones to return.

[@liamhuber3636]

45:00

[@pazeluz4476]

When it comes to the dragon, either he didn’t read the book or he is being dishonest

[@johnl.2895]

To misquote Chesterton: "🔥🔥🔥"

[@duncescotus2342]

Hey, silly question: Was Calvin a Calvinist?

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

yeah, pretty much

[@j2kp0t]

I don't understand the Jove v. Saturn reference?

[@carlabrown2313]

He is making reference to medieval cosmology (as Lewis was a medieval scholar). To be under jove ( jupiter) is to be marked by Joy, true kingship, magnanimity. To be under Saturn is to marked by sorrow and death. To put it in very simple terms. In medieval lit the planets all have personalities that are frequently used a literary devices.

[@j2kp0t]

@@carlabrown2313 was this astrological at the time?

[@carlabrown2313]

I am not sure that it was never used that way, as of yet I only have the most basic understanding and have much reading to do. I know many examples where it is not meant that way, especially in Lewis's writings.

[@OSleeperTactical]

@@j2kp0t look up Doug's talks on the ransom trilogy for that one.

[@ryanpeters5778]

Weapons grade Calvinism 😂😂😂

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

It doesn't really surprise me that you can read the Bible and think it supports Calvinism if you can even read C.S. Lewis and come away thinking that...

[@briankristensen349]

Why should I be “Reformed” when I am Formed by our God?

[@prestongilchrist7476]

the reformation reformed the church that was formed at the time which was the roman catholic church which claims that you must work for salvation through sacrament and indulgences, which is not the apostolic view of anything at all ever. reformers were re forming the church because the church had forgotten the bible and believed in sola ecclesia rather than sola scriptura. the bible is the word of God so we should treat it as such, hence it’s God given authority which the rc church does not believe it (see papal infallibility). the apostles had ‘reformed’ theology in the sense that they focused on the grace of God rather than their own works and their own flesh.

[@dwightthoren8793]

2 Corinthians 3, 4 and 5 explain, because mankind is fallen and dead in regards to what God created to be good. He re-created in Christ, the form, the means of bringing all things into subjection to His purposes and His own glory in creation. He is steadfast in love and merciful to save from His justice...the gospel is all about how and why and Who re-forms.

[@briankristensen349]

I am not intiligente enough to be a reformed. I know I am a sinner in need of Christ, Lord Jesus Son of God have mercy on me.

[@dwightthoren8793]

@@briankristensen349 His plan includes the mission and gospel of His bride the Church. I have no idea after justification and on to glorification his work is to sanctify us in the truth, his word being the truth. John 17. Jesus pleads in prayer to the Father on our behalf for an ongoing work. We cannot just lean on our inability to overcome our falleness. There is more to maturity of His plan set before the foundation of the world in the first creation. Right?

[@PB-mp4rt]

Reformed and continually reforming until that face to face world changing encounter!

[@c.a.g.3130]

Oddly enough (as it often is), Lewis preached "Calvinism (omitting Hobbes)," as his personal testimony clearly attests, but never asserted to BE a "Calvinist." Irresistible Grace for me but not for thee.

[@duncescotus2342]

Some come kicking and screaming (like Paul), while some are born into Christian homes and inculcated (like Timothy). Lewis was fairly resistant, and so for him, salvation might have seemed to be a the result of a very persuasive God indeed. But he was wise enough not to universalize his own experience.

[@c.a.g.3130]

@@duncescotus2342 He didn't 'universalize' his experience because he wasn't a very good theologian.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@c.a.g.3130 Au contraire, mon frere: One of the best theologians ever. And probably the most effective of the twentieth century. But if you mean that he lacked reverence for the scriptures, then you need to read Watchman Nee. He will satisfy your thirst. (Nee was a good Presbyterian). But don't be resistant to grace, which comes in many forms.

[@c.a.g.3130]

@@duncescotus2342 Nee was not a Presbyterian. You might want to look up the meaning of the word 'theologian.'

[@duncescotus2342]

@@c.a.g.3130 Nee was the best Presbyterian that ever was. The "local church" was sadly his downfall. We need bishops, as "episkopos" is not really the same thing as "presbuteros." You might want to lay down your arms, as you may have met your match. A theologian is a type of a dunce, and I'm that. At least they both wear funny hats.

[@tomroberts9794]

'He knew....' Such a common descriptive used by Reformers and other orthodox professors. As a Christian, I'm much more impressed with 'he did' or 'he went' or 'he obeyed' or 'he was faithful' or 'he followed' or 'he was Christ-like.' Enough, already, of adulation of smart guys.

[@brentbeauford16]

“That no flesh glory in His presence “ why all the praise and honor to a man. Preach Jesus only , to the Glory of God alone! Lewis taught us we could serve the devil in this life and Christ would claim it as service to Him! How sick! That’s not biblical Christianity. In the line of RC Sproul “ what’s wrong with you people?” Oh Lewis also said at the temple of a pagan god “ he felt like worshiping, but didn’t, but it would not have been wrong if he had of” “what’s wrong with you people?” Chronicles of Narnia is not Christian but paganism and witchcraft combined , Lewis should not be held up for Christians to follow. May God help us

[@downonafarm177]

I love how God brought him out of all that. You are venomous.

[@donaldplatt9083]

Lewis was not reformed or Calvinist.

[@MaD-hp9hq]

Did you even listen to the video before you commented this

[@newmannoggs]

@@MaD-hp9hq Donald's statement is true whether he watched the video or not.

[@jovianleong4651]

@@newmannoggs lololol

[@JLwing2010]

The real point is: Jesus needs to be at the center of any interpretation or understanding of God’s Word. Just as DW stated.

[@johntobey1558]

Owen Bardield and J.R.R. Tolkien certainly were not. And they each had a lot more influence on his thinking the John Calvin ever had. I fact him being a war veteran from World War I was much much more formational on his pathos and ethos then remote theologically internal debate which he never really addressed in depth

[@duncescotus2342]

Thanks, brother John. Calvinism isn't Lewis, just isn't. And while we all want Clive Staples on our team, he signed with the Anglo-Catholics. That's history as you have pointed out.

[@zixzysm]

Was Lewis a Calvinist? … well, if that helps a Calvinist read his books then sure. Absolutely. You will find joy and freedom in Narnia and the space trilogy, and then when you come back to the gospels you will find out where Lewis got this joy and freedom. And He (not Lewis…) will quench your thirst like the fruits of the floating islands on Perelandra.

[@Tom-cv7sf]

Denominations are outlawed by the bible,,,,, Hear Yahweh's Voice and Obey.

[@ethanmulvihill7177]

Verse?

[@bmide1110]

Lewis was certainly and obviously not a Calvinist.

[@duncescotus2342]

The conflation fallacy which persists is an outrageous one: Calvinism=the doctrine(s) of grace. By this equivalence almost anything good is Calvinist. But if you're suggesting C. S. Lewis held to the TULIP, maybe the stem-- while he was toasting the apostolically successive Anglo-Catholic faith.

[@Landis_Grant]

It doesn’t matter whether the unsaved CS Lewis believed in predestination. It’s a moot point since Lewis the heretic is in Hades.

[@shepherd7744]

It's fun playing around about how steadfast you are in Calvinism but one day you will stand before a holy God and explain how you made him the author of sand not gonna be a good day then to laugh and play about Calvinism

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

but God is the author of sand?? 🏖

[@downonafarm177]

Are you there for yourself? Or you there to talk about CS Lewis? A giddy calvinist, you left that one out. Seems though you're there to entertain. I stopped listening at 9.

[@FlashFlareKnight]

Doug Wilson should be ashamed by this presentation on Lewis. He takes all of the quotes he uses out of context and twists them to his own view. Lewis struggled with faith all his life. And so when he began to think about his life after his conversion he takes the position that it was not solely him, nor was it solely God. Tolkien might have been partly an influence in that thought. Also, you show you don't read Lewis's and Tolkien's contemporaries, but that can be expected.

[@3leon306]

The real fact is that Lewis was a Catholic … only cultural bias, bigotry, and pressure kept him from crossing the Tiber to the truth of a Christ’s church

[@joshuatheo1419]

CS Lewis was a heretic.

[@JJ-up5be]

Maybe, maybe not, but Mere Christianity was solid.

[@jw0048]

Who wasn't? lol

[@ThePattersonPod]

I would have liked the apparent inclusivism of the Last Battle to be addressed, but overall loved the talk.

[@OSleeperTactical]

Not everyone with imperfect soteriology is a heretic.

[@donaldplatt9083]

You know nothing