Cafe De Rene Discuss Dave Meltzer Star Ratings

rene Dupree and Chris van vliet discuss dave meltzer and his star ratings.
#renedupree #chrisvanvliet #davemeltzer

[@scottishdanny2432]

CVV absolutely broke Dave. Ever since that interview, Meltzer has been going doolally with the incorrect reporting. Excellent job! 👍

[@aoxiv9i851]

Aye your right he has !

[@olaakande5581]

CVV dog walked meltzer through his own logic 😂😂

[@emperorburton]

According to Dave Meltzer the parking lot brawl between the Best Friends and Santana & Ortiz is a better match than Rock vs Hogan at WM 18.

[@rarewrestling8852]

Nick Gage vs Chris Jericho > Rock vs Hogan according to Dave Meltzer

[@mrglass3617]

I was at WM 18 and Meltzer is out of his f'n mind. Ok it wasn't "technical masterpiece" but the match as a whole, fans included of course, was amazing. He even said that he should have ranked it higher. He's changed rankings in the past but didn't for that. I wonder why? At this point he's as credible as that one crazy uncle every family has.

[@hennypowers8319]

Can’t take that man seriously when he said Kurt Angle never had a 5 star match.

[@mickeyd8768]

Kurt and Shawn at Wrestlemania 21 was incredible. Dave's rating system is forever shifting of goalposts and makes ZERO sense.

[@ryanoneill3192]

Kurt vs. Shawn (WM 21), vs. Benoit (Rumble 2003), w/Benoit vs. Edge and Rey Mysterio (No Mercy 2002) are all 5 star matches IMO. There are a ton of other Angle matches that are arguably 5, but those three matches are 5* by any reasonable metric.

[@TheJosephPrice]

@@ryanoneill3192Angle also had incredible matches in TNA.

[@ryanoneill3192]

@@TheJosephPrice True but I haven't seen them since I was a kid so I don't remember many specific matches, outside of the Lockdown matches against Mr. Anderson and Samoa Joe, which were amazing.

[@LumpyAdams]

A worse stat is that Bryan Danielson had zero 5 star matches his ENTIRE career before going to AEW. He's now had 9 in two years. That tells you everything.

[@Landofnothing]

Dave's star ratings have about as much credibility as mine

[@davidyya2399]

If you can say one Kurt Angle 5 Star match, then your Star ratings automatically have more credibility than his

[@IrishKyokushin]

Sadly clowns like Tony Khan and the AEW roster give him credibility because they're clearly pandering to him.

[@MrPapernumberDGG]

Dude.. are you okay? You shouldn’t put yourself down that hard.. it’s gonna be okay. Your opinion means a hell of a lot more than meltzers

[@sobbyhasselhoff]

I'd take your opinion over daves.

[@2SloppyJoe]

Just a reminder, Meltzer rated Cody vs Roman II as 4.75 stars but rated the street fight between the Best Friends and Santana and Ortiz as a 5 star match.

[@TakerKaneanite619]

So that match is better than Undertaker Michaels 25? Yeah, his opinion is irrelevant.

[@gazb2740]

He came across as someone making it up on the spot, when Chris asked him about match ranking.

[@zoyyay]

Don’t mind me, just randomly popping on the channel. Looking good boys, looking real good.

[@CoffeeStain-Music]

Cody and Roman got 4 3/4 stars. Dave is going to say that its close enough to 5 but if that same exact match with that finish and that crowd reaction was in AEW it would be given 7 stars.

[@the_real_tay_loud2072]

yet he gave one of the stadium stampede gimmick matches like 6 or 7 star. Countless bucks matches that have just been giant spot fests have got 5 stars.

[@hatsunemikufanboy]

But it's not a 5 in the Tokyo dome though 😂

[@mrglass3617]

@@the_real_tay_loud2072they're his friends, it's all bullshit. Plus he's probably on the payroll

[@random_vat]

Yeah so true.

[@RendarSelin]

Dave’s just biased as we all are. But it’s crazy that I can think of three TNA matches off the top of my head that should be 5 stars: Awesome Kong vs. Gail Kim, Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles, AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe The fact that Angle has zero five star matches is insane. Angle/HBK. Angle/Lesnar. Angle/Benoit. Angle/Styles. Angle/Joe. Angle/Austin. Angle/Shane. Meltzer just prefers the Japanese style. And that’s ok. But if you’re going to be considered the industry’s standard for rating matches, there should be at least some consistency.

[@jaybee4288]

I feel like the best triple threat match ever was Daniels v Joe v AJ. AMW had some of the best tag matches ever seen as well. TNA used to put on some bangers.

[@TheKeven28900]

Fans think way to highly of meltzer's opinion even though it is so clearly skewed. People celebrate when a match gets 5 stars like it's an actual accomplishment. Even other wrestling online personalities use meltzer's opinions as a foundation for their opinions.

[@NathanOrlick]

Straight up, when Meltzer didn't give the Angle v Michaels Wrestlemania match 5 stars he lost every shred of credibility to me. Even decades later, I occasionally think about that match. IMO it's in contention for the best match of all time, so anything less than a 5 star rating is a robbery.

[@kevinhousen2791]

That match, Angle vs HBK is was one of those matches that you watch over and over again.

[@drido]

Its totally subjective. I love 1980s and 1990s All Japan, got into it when living there. But Kurt Angle not being giving credit is insane. One of the all time greats.

[@nevenpatrk9661]

Yeah, the ratings are absolutely ridiculous. Some of WWE and TNA's biggest matches in their history were not rated 5 stars and then a random tag team match on Collision gets rated 5 stars like come on dude.

[@brianthomas3451]

True, I was at mania 21 angle vs hbk. Great match. Also if you watch the mania, near the third row ringside, commentator side, I’m holding a neon green 12-1 sign for orton vs taker. What a night

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

Meltzer: "if I say a match was 4 and 3 quarter stars and you say it was 5 stars, then we totally agree 100% we agree its the same...." CVV: "IT'S NOT THE SAME THOUGH"

[@Duncanlinc]

Bob has a brilliant mind for the business. I love that guy!

[@digitalmarketinghumans]

Good of everyone to see the bias that is CLEARLY obvious that Meltzer just likes New Japan and AEW more. Simply it. TNA has been around for 20 plus years then Will Ospreay comes in and bam..5 star rated match...two of them..which both had Will Ospreay. Mmmm wonder why? 🤔

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

Meltzer definitely gets on his knees for old willy

[@slimmcharles]

Dave Metzler is an underrated gimmick !

[@tomvu1470]

Uncle Dave is a mid-card/jobber "journalist"

[@eLite-Tiss91]

Dave Meltzer straight up said if the match isn't in AEW, Tokyo Dome or New Japan you ain't getting a 5 star 4.75 take it or leave it

[@The_Brendan_Abrams]

You can’t argue with insanity. Why anybody gives a shit at this point I don’t know.

[@WWE2KUNIVERSEELITE]

He is the only man in the world that has knowledge of wrestling that didnt rate Kurt vs Shawn as a 5 star match.

[@Double0Inside]

Never heard of this guy "Brutal Bob" in my life, and i agree that Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle is one of my favourite matches (easily my favourite Angle match)... but why did he just blatantly lie on video saying "the crowd started off dead" and "there were even some chants of boring" 😂😂 That legit didnt fucking happen. Why would you lie? 😂 I can not sanction this baffoonary.

[@jaybee4288]

Yeah I just watched the start and that didn’t happen. It wasn’t a super hot crowd right at the start of the match but it wasn’t supposed to be..

[@tonyclifton2230]

These ratings are great. People have roundtables about them. 5 stars is not the peek.

[@BromanEntertainment]

I never understood why so many geeks in the IWC or in the industry itself care about his ratings and seemingly *only* his ratings. Like, nobody else's opinion matters but his? When I was a teen, I was (and still am) into very dumb comedy movies, but I would have missed out on so many of them had I only listened to Siksel And Ebert's reviews. Like Meltzer, those old farts couldn't relate to what a younger demographic is into.

[@toasty862]

Back in the 90's / 00's he seemed to speak for the huge portion of fans that could see that the "vanilla midgets" were better than the supposed draws, and they were the real reason people were watching and coming to the shows. I think the people who still care about dave have an emotional connection to that time.

[@WRESTLINGXNBA]

you guys gotta step up the quality. chris is where he is because he tries for his audience. the amount of effort you put into audio shows what you think of your audience.

[@cafederene]

Going by your picture I'm guessing you watch cornette, do you complain that he only has a picture in screen?

[@WRESTLINGXNBA]

@@cafederene no, i said your audio should improve. i didn’t say anything about picture. its a podcast, not every podcast needs on camera. good audio means you respect your audience. shitty audio means you’re not giving as much of a shit as others do hence their success.

[@timmurray1033]

Good for you getting Bob Evans, best trainer out there!

[@roberteisenhauer7686]

Is Jason Sensation ok? I can't find him on Twitter anymore, hope he's doing ok.

[@hitcher82]

He activates and deactivates his twitter account alot. Check every now and then he will probably pop back on a few days.

[@roberteisenhauer7686]

@@hitcher82 thanks, I know he's been dealing with a lot of health issues & I just got worried. Jason's a cool mofo.

[@hitcher82]

​@@roberteisenhauer7686 yeah I have been following him on Twitter for over a year since he first appeared on cafe de rene and i have noticed that about his account. He disappears for a few weeks and them hops back on Twitter. I think he mentioned on the cafe once that he takes small breaks from twitter and yeah Jason is cool.

[@Bls-of1ld]

​@@roberteisenhauer7686he deals with mental health issues

[@wastelandwarriorz665fanacc8]

❤

[@stevenmillan9220]

Dave Meltzer's star ratings are the same as Letterboxd's similar star ratings where they are sadly overused for the wrong reasons(as in giving mediocre to terrible films five stars and a not-so-liked film two to three stars when it should instead be just one star to half a star).

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

Being a contrarian for the sake of it.

[@GatlingPea32]

I think Meltzer is basically the Rotten Tomatoes of the IWC because of his questionable BS ratings, comparable to the critic's reviews vs audience reviews.

[@hayatorpg3896]

Maven should have been here too

[@kumakhan7452]

Meltzer has been gone for a long time. No reason we the people can't just ignore him and let another more qualified individual help us understand the what, why, & how matches are rated the way they are; but can we agree that 5 stars is the limit? Seriously, it takes the piss out of every other 5 star match in history when you do this. Kawada vs. Misawa (you know the one) was the perfect example of a match that broke the bounds of the 5 star limit and it should have ended there. You only need one match to go above the board, then you just point at that match and say "Here's why or why not the match you are comparing it to is or is not 5 stars." Thank you for coming to my Tedx Talk.

[@WarGhoulKharas]

It makes sense if you only like one company and are in love with the EVPs.

[@evdomos]

It's kind of fun hearing Chris get friendly-ly upset.

[@OneSideofFries]

Not giving 5 star matches is one thing but how does someone get a 6 plus and a half a star rating?

[@ThePhoenix24]

When chris asks Dave if he " liked njpw more than other wrestling" and dave kinda said no I IMMEDIATELY WENT BS because he gives everything in japan 4 stars or more.

[@sjdhgydhfyrn1023]

HBK/Taker Mania 25 was (at least) a 5-star match. HBK/Angle Mania 21 was a 5-star match. Uber-Mark Meltzer is just that: a mark. Not a wrestler/worker, not an "expert," nobody.

[@Card_lol]

I'm not gonna lie people take meltzer way too serious even if you love or hate him. He's just one guy, and you're allowed to agree and disagree with him like you can with me or people you talk to irl. Idk if he does it often but I wonder if meltzer goes back and re-reviews older matches. I'm just curious about how his opinions change over time

[@geneanthony3421]

Meltzer is ridiculous. The fact that Angle never had a 5 star match should show him that his system is flawed. It’s a subjective thing, but he acts like it’s a science.

[@4ArchieLee]

Angles best opponent ever........ Benoit flat out

[@mjbeltran9429]

I'm a Meltzer fan boy but I do agree that star rating it's just his opinion and just that. You could agree or disagree BUT can't change it.

[@jaybee4288]

@mjbeltran9429 Sure but in that case, given he’s so out of touch with other peoples opinions (he thinks best friends v LAX in the AEW car park is a better pro wrestling match than Cody/Reigns or anything Kurt Angle or Randy Orton ever did) perhaps we should be considering his status as an industry leader. I don’t want to change his opinion, but I’d like to see his opinion given less importance. It’s time he was ignored by everyone but his fans I think.

[@mrglass3617]

0:55 it didn't add up.... almost like Meltzer doesn't like the WWE. The interview was great, CVV picked apart Meltzers system and told him why it was stupid. Basically made Meltzer admit he was biased to a certain "style" and by style he means people.

[@harvardsmithdeangelo6905]

based vliet

[@Bulletno]

Meltzer, leader of the Buckeroos.

[@TravelatorH8r]

Come on guys don't get Chris in trouble

[@Mamashmeeky]

It’s all based on gut feeling too lol. What constitutes a 4.5 star match from a 5 star one? Can he even explain that?

[@eaglesandowls]

I don't think there is nothing wrong with that though. 4.5 is near perfect and 5 is a match you liked a little better than 5 stars.

[@rickroberts7611]

Because wwe has always treated him like nothing and aew yearns for his approval

[@KegOfMeat]

The fact that Triple H and Kurt Angle don’t have five stars but Ospreay and Omega have countless makes his star ratings meaningless. The match that didn’t get five stars that I point to is HBK vs HHH from SummerSlam 2002. Incredible match, incredible story, four and a fucking quarter.

[@freddiejohnson6137]

The man jumps through hoops to explain it then now claims it's not out of 5 stars and it's pretty much an infinite scale... Wouldn't that mean by his own logic 5 stars is a low rating? If you aren't rating stuff with a maximum possible score then your whole system becomes redundant and a joke. The simple fact that most of his 5 star matches all came from All Japan before AEW was a thing tells you he picks a style and has a very narrow view of what it a top match. He also seems to think his own opinion on what is and isn't a great match should be what people should book for to be successful and get people watching.

[@eaglesandowls]

But is there anything necessarily wrong with that? People like certain genres of music and movies better than other genres. So of course they would rate it better because of that.

[@freddiejohnson6137]

​@@eaglesandowlsI'm not saying there is anything wrong about having personal opinions but when his ratings are passed off as subjective facts as to how good a match is then that's why I have a problem. Also when he started going over 5 stars just because he liked in more than another one so my point stands that if it is no longer out of 5 stars and the scale is now infinite then you lose credibility. No other form of reviews breaks their highest possible score when they see the piece of media they are reviewing and think it is in every way better than everything that came before it. They stick within guidelines of a review system so it makes sense Dave has no guidelines anymore on what he rates matches he likes.

[@kdizzle901]

The main event of WrestleMania 19 is 5 star match Angle v Lesnar

[@user-rx2hw8up2j]

Dave the" make a wish" wrestling journalist

[@jpVari]

And if it's purely subjective, a complete gut call... Just say so. We all know that anyway!

[@the_real_tay_loud2072]

Punk vs Taker should have been 5. Angle vs Taz. HBK vs Angle. Bret vs Shawn? Austin vs Rock???

[@MattSinz]

The problem is Dave has a bias towards and against specific companies and specific wrestlers. There's nothing wrong with having a bias, but he presents his ratings as objective.

[@Traynor-gw3cb]

You’re gonna tell me Angle vs Benriot and Undertaker vs Michael’s didn’t get five stars crazy shit man

[@Jayavfc87]

Dave meltzer should just use his star ratings for the strength of smell of wrestlers farts

[@jeevankikahaniya6339]

I don’t like the dark background…add more brightness

[@justint8635]

"Speak English to me, Tony. I thought this country spawned the fucking language, and so far nobody seems to speak it."

[@RatedRcny]

If Taker vs HBK 1 don't have 5 stars you know it's bs

[@deadeyedarwin]

The title of the video doesn't make sense.

[@youngmeth87]

Meltzer must've been rooting for the Russian guy during the 96 Olympics

[@Est93]

Clearly Meltzer has a homosexual relationship with Ospreay

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

No lubricant used either. Just straight in.

[@crazymoviescenes1303]

Meltzer n his zombie looking assistant, they r on payroll, we should know by now!

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

Plus Meltzer and his groomed pet Chimp Alvarez have been playing an obviously fake good cop bad cop on AEW recently. Both of those two "men" see the writing on the wall. Plus when AEW fails how many of the Meltzer cult will quit buying his stuff? A fair few I'd imagine.

[@syndrome5372]

Its not a rating of how good the match was. Its a rating of how much the people IN the match glaze meltzer and pretend hes a real journalist

[@thehater6189]

Johnny Gargano vs Andrade got 5 stars lololol

[@VinIchiban]

This is what happens when you make a man a god. It’s just his opinion. It literally is just his approval rating. If you don’t care about his approval then get over it.

[@TheWill1225]

CVV is always politically correct and here he is outright saying it’s garbage how he rated TNA versus his friends at AEW

[@petebagwell6666]

The writing in the thumbnail is atrocious, also wow you got renee dupree, will osprey, conrad thompson and albert all on the same podcast, just wow

[@DWtechfan]

If you want a great illustration of Dorkmaster Dave’s “match star rating system” is dumb, Kurt Angle who is probably the best of all time, has never gotten a 5 star match. Meanwhile, Kenny Omega who does a million freaking knees and can’t really wrestle gets all 5 star matches from Dave. I think Dave has been exposed for being not only delusional but if he doesn’t know something, he’ll fake it just to claim he knows or is some type of authority. He probably still lives in his mom’s basement.

[@mattdavis5603]

Kenny Omega can absolutely chain wrestle. He can do pretty much anything. The spamming off the strikes is just his choice, it's that video game style people talk about.

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

He's been exposed as a willy tickler with the tongue. I bet you £20 one of his faves "slipped him one" raw.

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

​@@mattdavis5603that video game style. Well no wonder 99% of people think it's shite then.

[@brandonperezpr]

Meltzer's "Star Rating System" is just 🤡 ass 💩. Its just a journalist's opinion. Hell... even Kenny Omega doesn't understand it (he said it on his twitch).

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

I bet Dave Meltzer went full "my teas gone cold I'm wondering why I got out of bed at all" and ripped all of omega's pictures off the wall.

[@Trunks7500]

DAVE DOESNT IN MY WORLD

[@Weezing336]

What are these 5 star Orton matches? I've never seen a 5 star worthy match in my life, especially from Randy Orton.

[@MrDCWood]

What would your rating be for Randy Orton Vs. Cactus Jack from Backlash 2004?

[@Weezing336]

@@MrDCWood Less than a 3.

[@Kobe24brady12]

@@Weezing336lmao give me a break

[@JohnKobaRuddy]

Randy Orton is a charisma vacuum and has arguably the worst finisher of all time.

[@vincentolympe98]

Whoa whoa whoa. Hang on. Haven't we all agreed by now Dave and these ratings are, even by his own admission, subjective meaning opinion based? So we roasted the hell out of the guy for posting his opinion which.....aren't y'all doing that now? Nah don't think about that!...... now we're trying to force his subjective opinions to make objective sense? Does no one else see the cyclical logic here?

[@murphyjay9084]

dont jesus

[@justint8635]

Absolutely astounding.

[@PresidentTaroOkada]

Bitters 😂

[@smoothpoon86]

The more people you get to sign up for Dave’s stupid website the more frequently you get your star ratings so Tony can give you a bonus. There, problem solved

[@Repomidnight]

Coming from the guy who had was given every opportunity, but went nowhere in the business.

[@crossoneheart]

To Meltzer’s defense, he took something that is subjective and made it objective. People bash him for his star ratings, but he made his ratings a commodity and I think that is something worth noting. Hate or love him, he made it his signature

[@KCJB22291]

Everyone bitches about daves ratings, and yet you keep going back to them, to bitch about them. Either they mean something, or mean nothing. Can't have it both ways. If they mean nothing, stop complaining about them and move on

[@KamoMustafaWWE]

Chris overemphasizing the "genuine curiosity" makes me believe otherwise.

[@jaybee4288]

Dave genuinely thinks best friends v LAX in the AEW car park is a better pro wrestling match than Cody/Reigns or anything Kurt Angle or Randy Orton ever did. So why is anyone listening to the clown?

[@smellywaffels1967]

Randy Orton? He’s the most boring wrestler ever. I agree with him never having a five star match. Angle on the other hand not having one is crazy.

[@brettheath7127]

Meltzer is garbage just like AEW both can't take any constructive criticism unfortunately though we need AEW to succeed but it looks more and more like it will go out of business if some major changes aren't made for example getting a proper booker like Dutch or Corney who acuatlly understand the business

[@Est93]

Clearly Meltzer has a homosexual relationship with Ospreay