Caller: "My husband is becoming a Jehovah's Witness and I don't know what to do"

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

Thank you so much for responding to my recording Lloyd. Your observation is spot on. I did feel safer while he was smoking and drinking. However since this recording he is drinking again with all the “friends” but I guess he feels it’s ok since he’s studying. I told him earlier that I wish he would be a smoker again rather than JW. He was pretty shocked at that. But it’s the truth.

[@LloydEvans]

I'm so glad you found my response helpful. Again, I really do empathize. I hope you're able to resolve the situation one way or another. Sending love and hugs!

[@ld-zj1bn]

I'm so sorry. It's horrendous I know. And I feel helpless against the strength of what seems to happen to people. I just wish you the very best. Try and live your life in the way that you feel is right for you. If you can't bring yourself to stay away from him then please spend your life with your own wishes at the forefront. 🤗❤️Big hug.

[@Eric_01]

@@Proverbs-gt8xi I had a feeling even early on when the video first posted that would likely be the natural course. I think every relationship's existence should hinge on one principle. "We will be together until it is no longer joyful." That 's it. The past doesn't matter and you can't build on memories, meaning you should never stay together for sentiment. However, I think he will burn out. If he's still into it in 6 months, you may need an exit plan.

[@Eric_01]

@@Proverbs-gt8xi This isn't my business, but I'm curious how much of this you've discussed with him. Is he aware about your feelings on this and that you're considering leaving? Obviously, you've stated that you've told him you wish he still drank and smoked. Does he indicate that he is aware that he's changing the relationship?

[@Eric_01]

@@Proverbs-gt8xi Just my opinion, since it has been a year or more of this, it is time to dump the full load on him. It's not a game of chess, so being strategic or concerned about it maybe making him feel proven shouldn't matter. If his new twisted up mind sees it that way, there is nothing you can do about that. Like you said, he is no longer the person you married or knew. If he views your wanting to leave as some sort of martyrdom for him, so be it. He was hoping for that anyway, let him have it because this is about YOU at this point. YOU need to make a move that ends with you being free of that nonsense. If you're relying on prayer, I think you'll be disappointed. You've already answered your own prayer. You know that he's changing or changed, you know you want nothing to do with his newfound beliefs, you know he is already settling comfortably into some hypocrisy, and you know that the marriage is already ruined because you've used the word in the past tense. You already acknowledge all of these things, I heard them from you loud and clear, they're not my opinions. If you are looking for an answer to a prayer, you already have it, you just were hoping for something more along the lines of god restoring him back to normal. I don't think that's how this plays out. Granted, I'm just playing armchair quarterback here. And you've actually already moved out? That's pretty well advanced in the process. If that did not alter his course, and it clearly states the degree of seriousness this is for you, then it's time for the division of assets. In trying to salvage something here, you're clearly miserable and it isn't reversing course. I really hope you find the strength for the next move, I'm pretty sure you've got it in you.

[@laymanphil8513]

There are many depressed people who become JWs just as there are many JWs who become depressed. This cult is the meeting place for people with depression.

[@ZildjianGuy90]

Every single day is a struggle. High Anxiety and depression. It's very real.

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

I agree! My husbands family have problems with bipolar and anxiety.

[@mikedraper138]

This was heart wrenching to listen to. I was in your husband's position. I had been raised in it but left in my early twenties, had gotten married (to a non jw) and was living a good life, but in all that time I'd never done any real research into the religion and still lived with the fear of armageddon. I ended up going back, my wife wanted nothing to do with it and I failed to see how much my doing so had turned her life upside down. We'd been celebrating holidays, had our own circle of friends etc. which all disappeared. It totally destroyed our marriage, and being unable to take it anymore she left. I was continually love bombed due to her leaving, used on assembly parts, progressed in the cong etc. for some years, till I began to have doubts. After a few 'forbidden' internet searches, the doubts snowballed till I eventually woke up, as in 'thoroughly'. I've been totally out for four years, happier than I've ever been, tho at the same time, filled with nothing but regret for what I did to my marriage, and giving so much of my life to this mind numbing cult. Their love bombing him will continue up until his being baptized. They will also put it solidly in his mind, that your only chance of surviving armageddon will be if he can convert you. He may think he's doing what's best in attempting this, but when putting it in perspective, he's really being selfish, being narrowly focused and thinking only about the life he wants with you as a jw, while not truly being concerned about the kind of life you want. They love making examples of newly baptized members at assemblies, displaying them like trophies as those who've turned their lives around after being addicted to drugs/alcohol etc. while attributing all their success to WT. They thrive on it, and he's no doubt already on their list. The amount of control this group has over its member's minds is beyond words. Regardless of the years you've spent together, his continued indoctrination, all based on fear and guilt, if not swayed by his own unbiased research, will turn him into a person you no longer recognize. If you choose to try to make it work, just know that you are in for a rough ride. I recommend doing your own research to fully educate yourself about this high control religion. Look at 'Jwfacts.com' an online web site, the book 'Crises of Conscience' by Ray Franz, 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' by Steven Hassan and others. You deserve to be happy, so please take a hard look at what your life will be like in 5 years, and most importantly, get some professional counseling to help you get through this.

[@dianesicgala4310]

Very well said. It an evil controlling cult.

[@angel22893]

Lovely answer Mike, I hope the caller sees it ❤️

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

What a nice response!!! I am very familiar with this religion and how much control they have over there members. I also have found JW facts very interesting and I have Ray Franzs’ book as well. I have mentioned some things in the beginning of him studying that he should watch and make an informed decision about this religion and he right away told me that was “apostate” info. He wasn’t interested. I know you said to get counseling. I have gotten counseling but my husband will not go to a Christian one. I’m not sure he would consider any counsel from sources other than JW?? I am slowly seeing the change in his persona. The indoctrination is working. But he also has a lot of old baggage that’s tough to write off.

[@mikedraper138]

@@Proverbs-gt8xi It can be a challenging thing working one's way into the mind of an indoctrinated jw. They are relentlessly programmed to be automatically on the defensive of anything that is the least bit critical of the org., whether it be from the internet or written material. If you haven't checked out Steven Hassan's 'Combating Cult Mind Control' it is worth a read. It's not a book about jw's, specifically, which means it's not considered apostate. His B.I.T.E. model lays out all the ingredients that make up a cult, looking at the absolute and total control of one's behavior, the information they take in, their thought processes, as well as their emotions. Reading it was an eye opener for me even after I'd been out for some time. In the end, it comes down to 'if it walks like a duck, and talks like one', and I don't need to go on. Jw's fit all the criteria with flying colors. Perhaps he can be persuaded at some point to at least look at it. Unfortunately no amount of confrontation, no matter how carefully worded, will have any effect once he's been programmed to reject it. The only way a jw can escape all the mind control is by doing their own research. Ultimately you're going to have to decide what kind of marriage you want to have. If you choose to stay with him as a non believer, you will have to learn to accept the fact that his religion is always going to come first. I'm sure you already know what it's like spending your evenings and weekends home alone, while he's at his meetings, or going out in field service, the two hour Sunday meeting, three day assemblies lasting all day etc. If he progresses to the point of being a MS and taking on more responsibilities, you will see even less of him. Please give this some serious thought. Hopefully you can at some point communicate to him what you need and want out of your relationship. In the chance that things don't go well, you might want to have an exit plan. If you're not seeing a counselor of any kind because he won't go, go for yourself, preferably someone professional. It could be a great help to you. Hopefully you have a close and trusted friend, someone you can vent to and confide in. I sincerely wish all the best for you.

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

@@mikedraper138 thank you. I will give all this some serious thought.

[@Tbowtime12]

I feel for her. My xwife and I were married for 20 years and were witnesses for 1/2 that time. She returned and I did not. The last 5 years of my marriage was a nightmare. Elders were trying to intervene in my relationship and I suggested counseling but she wanted counseling from the elders not from someone outside the religion. I ended it and now I am the happiest I have ever been. I wish her well and hope you can save your marriage.

[@alisonschmitt9533]

30 years, multiple issues, and now this? I’d cut my losses and be done.

[@ld-zj1bn]

Me too.😏 But of course easier said than done! Financial security and other issues become very powerful after that length of time and with the current upside down politics just now etc....

[@Eric_01]

If one partner in a relationship pulls a 180 and not in a way that works for the partnership, then it is over. If he follows through and the studying takes hold, he will not be the same person anymore. At all. Having been together 30 or 100 years is completely irrelevant if that person gets brainwashed and becomes completely unrecognizable. You may still be able to find out why he took the interest suddenly and see if he can be swayed, but if not, you can stay and be miserable or wish each other well and split. He will eventually drive you mad and that idea will become more pallatable. Just please remember that you do not owe the history of the relationship. People change often and I firmly do NOT believe in "for life" with no exceptions. Or...he will study for a bit, get tired of the suits and multiple meetings per week without his partner and this will play out. You'll know in a year. Whatever you do, don't let the decision be made by fear of change. So many people stay in lifeless marriages of misery simply because they are afraid of the first step of moving on. It's easier than some may indicate.

[@pamelaruth7400]

I agree Lloyd! You made great observations.

[@kimhaas7586]

Love the haircut, Lloyd. Niiiice!

[@b4ph0m3tdk9]

He lost some weight too, I think.

[@ZildjianGuy90]

What a sad situation for her but she needs to RUN. I know that sounds harsh but his mind is no more. He's gone.

[@brentcook2072]

lol 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂so true!!!

[@redryder210]

Once the love bombing begins it’s basically impossible to stop that from happening. Especially for someone who was raised a witness and never baptized. That feeling of coming into the fold is so important to them.

[@zuglymonster]

This thought terrifies me. My SOs family is family are JWs

[@nickmorris9383]

except he will be objective.....just get him to watch Loyd....lol.

[@hrh4961]

He's exchanged two addictions for one really huge one. For the moment, that is. Who knows what horrors lie in wait. They've got their claws into him; you can only lose. RUN!

[@carlyrussell7297]

Thank you Lloyd! You rock! And you are very wise.

[@Oldman808]

I’d be interested in seeing the statistics of the divorce rate in cases wherein one married partner joined the JW, and the other partner did not.

[@paulbinns9375]

Just one nuance to add: If your husband gets serious as a JW and wants to ‘progress’ in the congregation (take on a role as a man with official responsibilities of teaching etc) his path will be hampered by his having an unbelieving spouse. He may even be told ‘we would like to appoint you, but there is the matter of your wife.’ While this may be some time in the future, it could be a potential source of unhappiness. Of course there are many obstacles in the road that are of immediate importance and I sincerely hope that you are able to resolve this impasse in a mutually acceptable and loving way. May the future be bright and happy for you both.

[@bgramirez966]

Oh no! I feel for the caller

[@caseyjude5472]

Run and never look back. IMO, a divorce isn’t a “failure”, it’s just a change. People grow & change over time. You’ve grown apart, just like thousands of other couples. Build yourself a new life, surround yourself with like-minded people, invest your time in activities that bring you joy. The only regret many of us have is that we didn’t do it sooner. When you ask many of us, that’s what we say. We shouldn’t have waited. We should have listened to others that said to run & not look back. We wasted time working for something that would never be. There’s a big world out there full of non-cult members, waiting for you to discover & experience. I’m sorry this has happened to you. You don’t deserve this. No one does.

[@vaderdave5046]

Completely agree. There is nothing to "work out" here. If he's involved with the JW's, She needs to leave...immediately!!!

[@slackstax2854]

They will blame satan for the breakup anyway and pander him with sympathy and as he’s new he will have tons of books to get through to keep him busy while he’s getting over the persecution a new one suffers 👍🏽

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

Thank you Casey.

[@bawngtimkh9196]

Omg you could be a therapist. You took care of that call very well. The only advice I could give is love him and express your concerns. And explain why you don't believe. Her husband reminds me of my dad. He is a believer yet heavy smoking and drinking have prevented him from making progress.

[@snowwhite2709]

Although I was brought up as a witness and no longer in it, I would never ever choose to marry a witness and/or have kids and bring up a family like that. Since you are already married, I think if you husband chooses to continue to study, you may be able to have some deep conversations to discover whether you can live cohesivly with your 2 different beliefs, and what that would look like and what boundaries you both will have. There are many couple who can and do have different religions, but are respectful and considerate of each other.

[@KefashWhite]

"Welcome to the attic" Love it. 😀

[@TheOwlman]

Thanks Tibor.

[@dianeb411]

Once again Lloyd, such good guidance. I also agree with "Layman Phil". Good job you all!

[@PastaMaster115]

I'm like "Ha! A lot of JWs are heavy drinkers lol"

[@ogwellpeter7636]

What I know is that you can be together as a wife and a husband even though he is a Jehovah's witnesses. What should happen is that you should not convert. In that way you will continue with your normal relationship and that means you cannot not be disfellowshiped and even if he is disfellowshiped you will not be required to shun him

[@benfox1462]

It's not worth it. Don't waste your life in a fight u can't win. Just being real from experience

[@Ed30675]

Too good to leave,too bad to stay is an excellent book...one of the best I have read... Well recommend from someone who read it...

[@dalet9841]

You could try to set boundaries such as: No I don't want a study, I'm not interested in meetings or watching zoom or having sisters come to visit. On the plus side they will get him to quit overdrinking. Tell him marriage is till death do you part and you are not interested in a forever paradise. good luck

[@jettchou962]

Lol thats Savage

[@mittwochxiv.9770]

Nice and helpful video. Thanks Loyd.

[@Brotherhiram]

My parents got divorced because my mom got baptized and started taking the jw religion serious several years into their marriage. Just like this man, she had studied as a child and believed it was the truth but was not fully committed in the beginning. Apparently my fathers reason for wanting the divorce was that my mother “wasnt the same person he married”

[@ChromaticTempest]

It's sad seeing family get sucked into the lies. It's like knowing they will never be happy again, because forced servitude, and that's essentially what is with faith being the enforcer, cannot spawn joy. Oppression/repression, those words don't freely associate with thriving in one's life.

[@bronxrep2000]

Shes in a tough spot. My wife of 20 years turned into a full blown pentecostal a few years ago and its like the person you knew and liked a first has left their bodies and got possessed by a totally different entity.

[@sarahwever4072]

I have a very strong opinion about this topic because something like this happened close to home. The person who didn't believe in God, and knew her husband would divorce her if she got baptized after he told her he didn't like her studying and because she was unhappy in her marriage, and in love with someone who she knew was having problems in theirs and saw the weakness in the organization and everyone sat and watched as she made the Sister leave the house and go crazy and her divorce was welcomed once she was baptized and the Elder who got a "scriptural divorce" with the "crazy lady" and was able to remarry this person who gave up celebrating birthdays and holidays with their children and the grandchildren and the rest of the family suffered on his side. I know the Elder didn't conspire, but he was so heavily indoctrinated being in for 31 years at this, he didn't see the harm in what she did, when in the "real world" any woman would have gone in on the B and handled her and had help with their friends & family. She conspired the whole thing. I don't even think she believed it to be true, she just had a history with him prior to his being baptized and had a chance encounter 21 years after he had been married and in the cult. If your husband knows that you are so against it and explain to him that it's not good for any family at all to be involved, tell him you will divorce him, see if he calls your bluff and if he does...do you want to be with someone that you are in every sense of the word not yoked with? I'm sorry if that sounds horrible, but this organization has ruined my life and I saw too many bad things come from it and happen and I left over 20 years ago and then for my family decided to go back and it was a big mistake, because it cost me everything over the years, including my sanity at times and needing a shit ton of therapy for the c-PTSD that I have now. The GB are going down and I am not going to let up in my quest to see them fall from their self-appointed, lofty pedestal. Ever!

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

I don’t think I could ever show him any videos because he has already said “oh that person is apostate” so he gives it no merit. I feel all I can do is be well versed in my beliefs to be able to come back at him

[@NidusFormicarum]

Trying to deconvert him can lead to realtion problems in itself and can also be a heavy burden to take on. But ... Life is not always about yes-or-no-situations, but rather one has to test and wait and see what the future will be like. It's not necessarily about spending the rest of your life, but could also be about trying for two or three years and see how verything turns out. What always concerns me a little bit is that the spouse being on the outside can often be manipulated to becomeing a beleiver much later in life if you spend your entire life with that person - it can be that way around too. We all influence each other greatly when we are close - especially in this kind of relationship.

[@industrialalliance9905]

Please run. First of all your husbamd seems to have some abusive tendencies (which might have been dueled by his decades of alcoholism). Him becoming a JW will most likely make this much worse as their misogynistic teachings will make it so that he will feel justified in his wrongdoing. Two he will no longer respect you as a person during meetings he will solely refer to you as his unbelieving mate or worldly. You will cease to be a person to him. There is little saving this. You're relationship is already rocky. If you desire a man who values and respects as a woman and a person him becoming a JW will basically be a slap in the face.

[@sarahwever4072]

BTW, like the new haircut Lloyd and you look like you have been working out. You clean up nice. LMAO 😏

[@janburn007]

I feel extremely sorry for this poor lady caller - she is in a very difficult situation & my heart goes out to her. Sometimes marriages between people of different faiths can still work out - but sometimes the different faiths can also cause difficulties in the marriage, to the point where the marriage eventually breaks up. Unfortunately if she decides to continue in her marriage at this point, only time will tell, whether it will last, after the husband becomes a Jehovah's Witness. But, as the JW religion can be more controlling & demanding in the lives of its members, than some other mainstream Christian denominations, it can make the marriage even more difficult if one of the partners is a JW, & one of them is not. I would also be very interested to know what made the husband suddenly become interested again in his childhood family's JW religion. Was it prompted by the start of the Coronavirus pandemic? I understand that around that time, many non-practising JW's were encouraged to start returning to the Kingdom Halls & start taking their religion more seriously. I would also be interested to know what prompted the husband to give up his habits of heavy smoking & drinking. Was it because he was already thinking of returning to his former JW religion & he knew he would not be acceptable to them if he was a heavy drinker & smoker? Or was giving up drinking & smoking something that he had planned to do in any case - perhaps prompted by a health/medical condition he had become aware of? Even if it was related to his return to the JW religion, the fact that he managed to do it successfully, means that he could have done it, even if he had not decided to return to his former religion. Plenty of people have given up things like smoking & drinking, without the need for religion. I'd also be very interested to know whether both the husband & wife were equally committed to their reconciliation after their previous separation. The caller indicated that she felt it (getting back together again after the separation) was the right thing to do & that she felt it was what God wanted her to do. But it would be nice to know whether the husband was equally committed to the reconciliation, or whether they reconciled largely at the wife's instigation - meaning that it's predominantly the wife who may be making all the effort to keep the marriage together, with the husband not making much effort himself. It's a sign that he may not be as committed to the marriage as his wife. If he is aware that his becoming so involved with the JW religion is extremely concerning & worrying for his wife - due to the demanding & controlling nature of the JW religion - then if he truly cares for his wife, surely that would prompt him to possibly take a step back from it for the sake of his wife & their marriage? Since he is the one who is changing in that regard, perhaps he needs to consider which is more important to him - his wife, or the JW religion? If it's the JW religion - then sadly, that may not be a very good sign for the future of their marriage. If they've been married for 30 years, it's possible they may have some adult children who could possibly bring pressure to bear on the husband, to make him see some sense, & realise how concerning & disturbing it is for his wife, that he is becoming so involved with the JW religion. I also think that the wife, if she is not already doing so, probably needs to start pointing out to her husband some of the flaws in the JW religion (as nicely as possible) - by sowing some seeds of doubt around some of their key beliefs which are not part of mainstream Christianity. At least, she needs to start chipping away at some of those JW beliefs & make him start thinking about them in a more critical way. It probably may not be very helpful at all just to show him a bunch of ex-JW KZbin videos - because since they are all made by "apostates" - he will probably just disregard anything they say. It's better for the wife to engage him in some challenging conversations herself, based on her own beliefs & knowledge. In the end, I do hope things work out for this lady, the way she would want them to - but I think it may be a rocky road for a while, at least while he is doing Bible studies with the JW's.

[@ld-zj1bn]

You have stated excellent points here! I hope the dear lady listens to your analysis.

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

Janburn007 Wonderful response! My husband Stopped smoking first in 2019. Was it because me and our daughter bugged him for yrs and yrs??? I have no idea. He said he was ready. As far as drinking goes it was when I left the house and taunted divorce and put the house on the market that he came around. But only for a short time. After I came back home he slowly started drinking since all the JW friends family are drinkers….. in moderation of course (lol). I should also note that my sister in law and husband were living with us at this time. From March 2020 to Dec 2021. I should say that my husband was against them living here because his sister annoys him and vice versa for her. During this time they never once intruded on our lives. BUT they became very aware of how difficult things were for me in the house. How controlling my husband was and how much he drank. So when I left my devout JW sister in law was 100%behind me. I should say she understood why I left. NOW during the time I left that is when hubby started studying. I blame myself partially for it. Maybe if I was home I might’ve been able to stop it?? Idk probably not. But that’s how that all started. I also can tell you that my husband was the one who wouldn’t let our marriage die and he desperately wanted me back which forced me to continue to think about returning home. Now maybe you have a clearer picture of how things got started. I should’ve been clearer on the recording but I was too nervous. That’s why I was fumbling and all over the place. Thank you for this response. Very much appreciated.

[@WilliamEly]

My unsolicited advice is to let him go. I think he needs the structure that the JW life provides. If he stopped two very addictive activities for it, he's committed to his course. My gut is telling me that he's thinking that a new lady is taking interest in him for the first time in ages and he's playing along hoping that he's going to gain access to a pool of potential mates that he can date and eventually marry so he can lord his authority over them. He'll realize 2 things at some point after his baptism, the ladies aren't interested in him anymore, and he can start drinking again.

[@chris-julian5537]

What are the Vegas odds that he’ll relapse back into smoking and/or drinking? What are the odds he’d be disfellowshipped?

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

He is drinking!!! And the group of guys we hang with are big drinkers!

[@jettchou962]

@@Proverbs-gt8xi As an alcoholic he will relapse it is just a fact of life. I dont know how the congreation elders will look at this ot depends on the congregation.

[@mikedraper138]

@@Proverbs-gt8xi For an org.that claims to have unity 'everywhere', I find it amazing the amount of diversity that exists in different congregations, some super strict, while others totally lax. I may be wrong, but what I see is that his circle of jw friends are perfectly willing to perpetuate his drinking, thinking it will draw him in socially all the more. Alcohol is no stranger to jw's. I've known prominent elders that go home after meetings and hit the bottle, just to deal with the stress. The bottom line is they're not really helping him if it's a behavior he's trying to quit, in fact in 'jw land', it could (at least in some cong's) be considered grounds for stumbling another, resulting in punishment, up to/inlcuding being df'd, their case made all the more serious with the knowledge that he already has an existing problem. The hypocrisy here shines like a light. All it would take is one 'gossiper/snitch' taking it to the BOE's. I'm sure they, nor your husband see it this way, being that he's obviously enjoying it. Given the above, it's hard to tell just how serious he is about becoming a hard line jw. I don't know how much you're a part of their get togethers. Regardless, I know it doesn't make your plight any easier. My heart goes out to you. Hopefully it will play out in your favor.

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

@@mikedraper138 thank you for the response. I agree with you on the differing congregations. I’ve been around this bunch of JW people all our married life. 30 yrs. They are no stranger to drinking. I would say 90% of them are drinkers. And it’s amazing how doing shots in a drinking game is no big deal. (My husband was not participating in the game) This past weekend I witnessed it myself and the next morning my husbands niece had a nasty hangover and was vomiting. They started drinking again by 930 that morning! So two faced this cult is. We get together quite frequently with them. However ever since my husband is studying I feel a difference in the relationship. Of course they and my husband deny it and say I’m wrong. But I feel it. One thing I have to say though is, my husband has gone to a few meetings but he usually zooms Thursday nights and has also been zooming Sunday’s too. He works every other weekend and I have weekends off, so we will plan things and I go to church in the morning and he says he will zoom the other early JW service so then we can get started on our day. I don’t say anything but part of me feels he might not like the whole 3piece suit and tie ordeal twice a week. Maybe he’s not a fan of the mtgs and is waiting until they say something to him about it and then he feels guilty? I don’t know. But I’m going to enjoy it while it lasts.

[@valriis9745]

My first thought would be. Put Jeffrey Jackson on the screen. Where's in the middle of denying his godly origin in front of Australian commission. No context no pre story just set the stream to begin from that spot and hit the play. Once he listens a bit and asks what it is... Then put from the beginning. Make sure the clip is from neutral looking source not ex jw or what not.

[@Eric_01]

This was far better advice than the other comment...

[@reko3103]

When someone becomes a JW, do they 'disfellowship' from their friends & family who are non-believers?

[@Eric_01]

Certain changes will definitely take place. You can be civil to workmates, but are harshly discouraged from cultivating any real friendship. You are to befriend only other JWs. Any existing friends that he has he will likely see as bad influence and begin withdrawing anyway. It's not a shunning, as when disfellowshipped, but he will just fade out of his old group. They likely will be glad to see the back of him if he's going to be a weirdo cult member now.

[@jettchou962]

@@Eric_01 Yes this is exactly right...its very subtle when you are on the inside. I never paid attention on the inside but now outside its so shocking looking in

[@tracyslover7302]

Great advice, Lloyd!

[@valriis9745]

Btw the dating market in late middle age is really truly horrible. Don't count of finding a new good man who doesn't want children. So how bad is the marriage really. 1. There are no real surprises is already a plus 2. Does he bring enough money home? 3. Has violent tendencies? 4. Generally reliable. Is your lawn is mowed and car is running? . If it yes to all of them.. Then considering alternatives it might be worth keeping.

[@freddybaumgartner3096]

Dude... 🤦‍♂️

[@cherylseebreth328]

Good advice. After all he has given up 2 addictions so far, at least he has made an effort. So many couples are quietly, (most of us) and realistically contented with 5 out of 10. Who gets upwards of 50%? It's not the problem, it's her ability to deal with the accpanying jw problems

[@Eric_01]

Did you take up his drinking habit? 1. This is horrible. This smells of boredom, complacency. Guess what is great to have in your life after 30 years? Some surprises! The "old shoe" philosophy is horrible. 2. LOL. Money? Oh, if the house is nice enough, then just keep living with a person that you now have NOTHING in common with because his entire personality has just been re-programmed by a international religious cult. Horrible advice. 3. Irrelevant, see 2. 4. Also, irrelevant, see 2. again. You have single-handedly given the worst advice on this entire comment section. Why would she even need to date? Living alone is actually awesome! I've been divorced for 20 years, I will never remarry.

[@valriis9745]

That was an advice for a woman not to a dude like you. Enjoy your man cave bro, jesus christ who woke you up the wrong way

[@valriis9745]

OK I'm bored enough maybe longer expl is in order. Mes value on dating market is determined by resources he provides, women's value is looks. Sucks? Yes. But I didn't create the game so it's not on me. So past 40 her options are lot more limited while you most likely continue to be earning asset and maybe keep going up in value. So yeah you have all the cards even when 60. You probably have home paid for everything is set the way you like. You're free to pursue all you hobbies. Men don't just build homes they are good at building their own lives too. So good for you bro. But other ppl like other things. So if she doesn't want to end up a single cat lady she needs to weigh her options. My advice is very easy as you don't have to do anything shes already married. The question is could she do better? And I'm saying - just be real. Also if she successfully manages to put breaks on him getting sucked in cult or is even worried about it... Doesn't it show she still cares? Enough to save what she's got now.

[@kellyevans207]

This caller has a difficult road ahead of her if she decides to continue in this marriage. I was married to a nonbeliever and was ostracized by each congregation I was in. We had many many situations come up in which we did not agree. Our relationship was lonely because we were divided. Time is not to be wasted. It's also interesting how the husband is all of a sudden welcomed into the family? You will not be. Unless you convert. And yes, I agree with Lloyd, how much do you love this man to be put through misery for the next several years. Because you are a nonbelievers you will be left out of many things. Do you want to put yourself through that?

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

This is actually my recording. There is so much more to the story but I only had 5 minutes. His family has been very loving to us for years. We have always been welcomed to parties and vacations. Way in the beginning of our marriage I studied with them but was not impressed. They basically didn’t force anything on us all these years. We just came back from spending time away with them this weekend. But I think I realized why he may like being around them. They all drink. A lot! They know he’s an alcoholic and no one stops him from drinking. These people are not walking the walk in this respect. I have also heard them talk about other sisters in the congregation. Saying things I never thought they would ever say. I came back to the marriage because I felt God was telling me to do so because I could not find a biblical reason for a divorce. Lloyd was correct, I felt safer with him drinking and smoking. Being so close to this now is very very difficult for me. Especially since he asks me for help getting on zoom and helping him pick out mtg suit. He’s color blind so I do it to help him. Maybe I shouldn’t but I’ve done things like this all our marriage so if I stop Now it may be to abrupt??? Such an incredibly difficult time for me right now.

[@kellyevans207]

@@Proverbs-gt8xi thank you for your generous reply. I know it's not easy. I hope you know I am not judging you. I am so glad to hear his family treats you well. That is a bonus. It was so brave of you to share your experience. I wish you much happiness in the future.

[@glennbentley4226]

I have always thought independently , why do these people that feel they have to join a group to follow group rules think that they have a right to pick at people that have no interest in following their group rules?

[@andyphuong3102]

My only way out was to block my Bible study teachers number from calling me and making me feel bad for stop attending and all the other witnesses that had my number, i do feel bad till this day but I did what was necessary to leave all at once. I hope lady finds her peace.

[@archstanton6441]

My advice? Get a divorce now before you squander the next 10 years.

[@Pursuepeace0715]

hopefully it works out otherwise she will eventually at some point need to convert. if he is an alcoholic there is always that risk he can slip back to drinking. she need prayers though because thst is hard. I think she need to plan her exit!

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

He is drinking and they are drinking right along with him! No one is really concerned about him and getting him better. You’re right this is very hard! I never thought this would be something I would deal with. Unfortunately I am now.

[@TheHudsonValleyWanderer]

He is not your husband anymore

[@shirleyanthony9581]

I love the attic look cool in there

[@CoCo-Five]

Oh wow. This doesn’t look good from the outside looking in. Since the hubby stopped doing “worldly” things, he’s being love bombed by the family and the other JW. She also mentioned the family said “he” is studying again. Here comes the singling out from all of them. It’s really up to him how he allows this religion to dictate how he sees his marriage. I know it’s both parties involved, but this religion really does separate people. Especially if they do not see JW as a true religion instead of a cult.

[@b.w.7588]

I feel so sorry for this caller. I'm glad that her husband was possibly able to quit smoking and drinking alcohol, but I wonder what other metaphorical demons he might be dealing with? The caller said his family have been JWs since 1985, so he must've been an older teenager or maybe a young adult when they converted to the faith and has believed in many of its theological claims for nearly four decades. Now that he is undergoing Bible study sessions with the Witnesses and is attending meetings at a Kingdom Hall, he will have to prioritize the wants and non-negotiable demands of his religion over his marriage, over his wife's well-being and even over his own well-being as well -- and that could pose serious problems for this woman.

[@b.w.7588]

If the caller is able to do so, she might want to consider talking to a therapist. A relationship counselor might help, but their marriage might find itself on the rocks. She doesn't agree with JW doctrines or rules, and he will most likely try to convince her to join the Witness faith, and this probably will create inevitable friction in their marriage. Remember, this man is going to have to prioritize his religion about everyone and everything else in this life. His wife will always have to play second fiddle to the religion. He will always have to play second fiddle for himself because his religion's wants, and demands are supposed to come first --at all costs.

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

So I actually misspoke. His family has been JW since the 70’s. I was nervous when taping this. He was in 8th grade when his brother brought this cult home to the family. We have been together since ‘85. We talked about counseling before I returned to the house but of course he was not interested in worldly counsel and forget about my church counselors!

[@simona_ab]

That book is very good, years ago helped me a lot! In the end, I left him, after a 13 years of bad marriage 🎉

[@St.OlGa.]

What's the name of that book?

[@gratefultobehere]

My heart goes out to this woman. She's been dealing with deeper issues than this man's religious preference. Looks like he found his "sense of belonging" in this vicious cult. And if she's reading my message, I can say this because I came out of the fire of being born and raised in it and the horrific familial discord evidenced in generations who turned their backs on me. I do believe I heard her say in this voicemail that she has faith as a true Christian (one who believes Jesus is God and He is) and so I encourage her to remain in her own faith and walk forth in joy. He sounds extremely depressed. I agree with the comments below of those saying the same. He is medicating himself now with religion instead of alcohol or cigarettes - it's just another addiction. Jesus set him free

[@joegonzalez842]

This is a big issue in religion, people braking bad habits due to believing a religion and don't realize and knowledge that is them as an individual who are working out there problems. but to believe in Christ, you have to believe in yourself first in order to believe in what follows ( just my opinion )

[@amb163]

She really, really needs to get herself into therapy, preferably with someone who has knowledge of both cults and helping those with addicted loved ones. If her husband doesn't want to go, she should go on her own.

[@shawnmanis4877]

Well said lloyd

[@crossroadcircleoffical]

it's sad how people use religion to replace substance abuse. unfortunately it's a pretty effective alternative to substance abuse. I just wish the religion he chose was something that wasn't so destructive.

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

Honestly I think he chose JW obviously because of his family but he is able to drink with them and as long a it’s “in moderation” he’s able to have his cake and eat it too. One thing I’ve noticed with them is they are DRINKERS!!! Shots, Hard liqueur, wine, mixed drinks, hard seltzer, anything with alcohol. It’s unbelievable really.

[@lindaturner5929]

Run

[@ld-zj1bn]

I think it's fair to say also that if he is drinking again then he has certainly not overcome alcoholism. I speak with experience on that one.

[@MichaelLudden]

Geez... She's got a real gem there lol

[@bawngtimkh9196]

He sounds like my dad 😦

[@emilyAndJ]

Wait.. so am I understanding that she seems concerned because he quit drinking and smoking? Why isn’t he allowed to join a religious organization??

[@leetrippii1830]

I hope he is open to both sides JW truths and lies and control

[@Eric_01]

If the studying is taking root, then the answer is no.

[@j.c.b6473]

I will be blunt: leave him and move on.

[@gisella1350]

The problem with this is, if you give personal advise and things go wrong, you will be the one to blame. Very good advice redirecting to the book. I appreciate her situation, but has she spoken with her husband about her concerns, and why?? There is no magic fix, it will play out. His problem is he has been intoxicated for to long, now sober, so he has missed the truth about what this organization really gets up to behind closed doors.

[@bbnCRLB]

Too bad you already left before. It's going to be hard to make him see what he will lose.

[@exploatores]

be honest to yourself. have you more then two choises. one stay and be a good JW wife or leave and be free . I don´t think their is any middle gound.

[@marg8907]

Hi, my situation was a bit different as I decided to become a JW because of my previous partner (which at that time I thought he was the love of my life). As the time went by I realised that no matter how much I loved him, the organisation and their close minded rules ALWAYS got in the middle of us and ultimately this leaded us to separate. What I'm trying to say is that even if you love that person they will make it difficult for you to live your marriage in peace. Think about what are you going to do for Christmas, birthdays, and other celebrations that JW are not allowed to celebrate? This is something you will never have together and possibly it can create friction with your children and other family members. Think about what would happen if one of you need blood transfusion? What are you going to do? These seems stupid things but today more than ever a couple to work needs to be on the same page on most stuff (not everything but important things like family time, quality time and health and spirituality). My advice is to speak to him and do what is best for You. Obviously you can't change his mind, it is his right to believe in a religion etc but you can change what you want from a relationship and sadly sometimes you have to walk away. I did it, it was the hardest thing I ever done but looking back I will never ever do it again. I hope you will find your way and the answers you are looking for. Good luck x

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

Thanks for the response. This was my recording. As for holidays we have celebrated our whole marriage. He was never a HUGE Christmas fan but still celebrated. Once he started studying a year ago it was like a light switch went off. All of a sudden he would say, “ don’t get me anything for Christmas, I’m ok with it” My birthday came and went without a word spoken. He was finished with it all. Honestly I’ve even grown to dislike Christmas so I’m ok with it. Our daughter however who is 25, will send him presents for birthdays and Christmas. I told her not too but she’s like, “ I don’t care he’s my dad and I’m gonna do it. I don’t care if he tells me not to!”

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

As far as a transfusion I feel I would have to abide by his wishes. And I’m sure the elders would step in as well to stop all of it.

[@marg8907]

I don't know what to say honestly, I feel deeply sorry for your daughter bless her, but mostly you. Try to keep it logical and see further in the future how things are going to develop. I only want you to know that once he's going to be in, the organisation will get involved in everything he will do. This includes his marriage and you, of course. You don't want to be in that situation, it really sucks.

[@Proverbs-gt8xi]

@@marg8907 thank you. I really appreciate your responses!

[@janmckae246]

Life is possible without alcohol & tobacco AND without being a JW. Try the SMART program or SOS (Save Our Selves/ Secular Sobriety) or Recovery from Religion.

[@esmeraldapooner751]

The sad thing is this religion attracts additive behavior, and the religion is additive, but people who get into this feel guilty about their pass behavior and habit. I was around seven years old when I realized my parents had two different religions and they argued about it.

[@toscanoplaster5603]

So your husband stopped smoking and drinking and now cares about his appearance ? He's learning Christian values? Hmmmm what to do what do do

[@sandrashady703]

They don't believe Jesus is God Show him Isaiah 9:6, John 14:6, Act 4:12, Collossians 1:13-17. His joining a cult is not Biblical grounds for divorce, even violence is not grounds for divorce.

[@dave9242]

Learn how to cook Matzo ball soup.

[@prlopez6134]

My cousin is happily married to his Jehovah witness wife he’s happy he is saving money on Christmas Birthday and Holidays gift and yet at he is is also happy when they is a wedding or funeral in the family and there is a church service the wife also attend the church services

[@andracadicecrawford4256]

SAD TO SAY...SHE MORE THAN LIKELY LOST HIM. THEYRE PROBABLY PUSHING ALL THESE SINGLE JW SISTER'S AT HIM....AND HE MORE THAN LIKELY CONNECTS HER TO THE OLD WORDLY LIFE. HUS FAMILY IS SAD TO SAY PUSHING HIM TO GET A DIVORCE FROM HER AND TO MARRY A JW FEMALE IN LIKE 6 MONTHS TO AN YEAR. THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP HIM IS TO PLAY THE GAME AND ACT LIKE A JW...EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T BELIEVE.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

It sounds like the marriage is over. Ask the husband why he decided to become a JW.

[@nickmorris9383]

wow! Loyd you are looking thin bro!

[@jameshaney3701]

You are happier with a smoker and drunk than the way he is now? Don't worry, It's like what happens when a man turns 40. He'll get over it. Have him watch Lloyd Evans videos.

[@simplysondra9096]

@James 🤣🤣🤣U RIGHT

[@user-jo6fm3vn4e]

How much does her husband love her! She needs to figure that out! He married her not a JW! Obviously, he has changed! Sounds like it is his way out yet looking innocent! Frustrating her until she leaves!

[@sandrashady703]

Give him a King James Bible.

[@truthseeker9360]

1. Disprove the blood issue it's not hard. Look on Berean pickets video and it'll teach you how to do that 2. Acts 2020 did not command us to go door to door that was actually Paul visiting fellow Elders that scripture has been Twisted by the organization. 3. The 144,000 is symbolic there will not a literal 144,000 Kings and Priests because Jehovah offered that very same thing to the whole nation of millions in Israel in the book of Exodus. And there were more than 144, 000 in attendance in israel .Jehovah does not change 4. Do your research is more than enough Firepower and scriptures out there to disprove Jehovah's Witnesses and how they twist the scriptures I'm a current Jehovah's Witness and I've been married for 25 years. I do a lot of the research online you must take notes and with a lot of love talk to your husband and you can easily disprove the Watchtower organization but be humble modest loving and use the scriptures. Even what I'm telling you is just advice it's your own decision at the end of the day but pray about it. Remember this the organization prevents us from doing outside research why? In the Bible in the book of acts even the boreans examine the scriptures carefully to see if what they were being taught with so so what the organization is telling us is unscriptural. If we have the truth we should not be afraid to examine anything outside the organization. That's what helped wake me in my family up but I did it with a lot of love I'm not advertising any website ( inapologize for that lloyd) or any KZbin channel but borean pickets youtube really helped me to get the Firepower I needed to combat the Watchtower organizations Twisted thinking..

[@Nimbus-fq7ub]

"pearls of wisdom" typical Mormon phrase... You may be picking up some LDS speech now...

[@b4ph0m3tdk9]

Lots of silly things in the bible to proof it is not written by a god but by humans. Like Matt 24:29 says one of the signs of the end is coming is that the stars fall down to earth. Funny how JW always skips THAT sign, but take the other signs very seriously. Also like when the bible says all flying creatures was created on the fifth day. JW "Creation book" simply ignores that (because it is wrong) and continue as if the bible git it right 10 out of 10.

[@jettchou962]

Lol Im trying to convince my boyfriend the same thing. He is the most logical person but his years of indoctrination blind him. It makes me go bonkers lol

[@b4ph0m3tdk9]

@@jettchou962 I am also very logical, and the logic lead me to discard the bible as being devine, just keep it up! If one read other places in the bible than the JW favourites it gets pretty clear it is not from any god. I recommend you dare him to read ALL of the 5 Moses books, I promise he gets no further then into the 3th book, then he is no longer a believer.

[@jettchou962]

@@b4ph0m3tdk9 Its crazy cause he is way more fact based than I. I told him if you lined up the bible and your favorite fairy tales like Jack and the Beanstalk would you be able to tell the difference? I seriously want to audio record his answer and play it back...like "Do you hear yourself?" Lol He is a great guy though not pushy at all.

[@b4ph0m3tdk9]

@@jettchou962 Already in the first 2 chapters of the bible they mess it up. In chapter 1 we learn that man was the last creation. In chapter 2 Adam is alone in the garden and god want him to have a companion, so he creates the animals one by one and lead them to Adam and he gets to name them. When all the animals was created and no companion found, god makes Eve from a rib. Also JW changed chapter 2. Look in the JW 1993 version it says "god creates the animals". In the newest JW they changed it to "god had created the animals". Bunch of examples that JW changed thier bible, really suspect!

[@bruderk4257]

I know my thoughts look radical for some or many but i feel so sorry for you that i will give my 'advice'. As long as there are no minor children involved: GET THE CAT AND RUN ! He is too far in, you can not save him. He is lost.

[@Rickylee23]

The good thing is he stopped drinking and smoking and taking better care of himself I’m an atheist I think religion is bull shit but at this case I thinking she should leave him alone if he is happy believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy let him be happy

[@chamarel.K]

Let me summarize: your husband has stopped drinking and smoking - which is awesome! (Or did you like him more drinking and smoking? 🤔) He has started to wear a suit once in a while and he is reading the bible - which actually makes someone a better person. Did he start to abuse you somehow, does he cheat on you? Or what exactly are you complaining about?

[@kimidose]

No more smoking? No more excessive drinking? And your issues are what??? I’m sure you can just be supportive and be happy for his new healthy lifestyle and stop sulking over what the JWs believe. JWs can still be happily married even if their spouse is not a JW. Be supportive… be happy he’s happy

[@jettchou962]

It depends on the elders some kingdom halls are way more lenient. It really depends...

[@janettemccuien4249]

I love Jehovah's Witnesses. I have been a Jehovah's Witness 45 year's. I know that they don't know everything in Scripture. I also attend a a Congregation that is not Jehovah's Witnesses. Only Jesus Christ is the Master of scripture. I encourage you to Pray in Jesus name to the Almighty GOD for your marriage and that you would be given Wisdom. GOD almighty us the only one can draw your husband to him. It is so many false teaching in many Churches and Jehovah's Witnesses don't know everything. Yet there are many Beautiful loving Jehovah's Witnesses. I have had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit Since 1977. I profess to be Anointed by Jehovah. Yhvh Yhwh Don't let the devil break your Marriage up.

[@georjiep4338]

You just admitted that there are so many false teachings in Christianity and JW, so why would you dedicate your life to something when you just admitted yourself that it's not perfect? If it's the one true religion, surely it should have no problems? Just food for thought ....

[@origamiandcats6873]

I think she should get a new husband

[@NineOneOneFx]

"I profess to be Anointed by Jehovah.". LOL. Cult indoctrination is way deep inside you. Hope you can get out/wake up some day.

[@snowwhite2709]

I grew up in it and my dad was one for about 50 years before he passed away. There are lots of nice, friendly witnesses, just like in many other religions, however this cult has a lot of damaging, harmful, deceitful, practices that have hurt many people, families, and many children who have experienced CSA and subsequent coverups, and non reporting, at the hands of their organization. If one knows about all these things, why would you want yourself affiliated with such harmful things, regardless of some nice followers?

[@susanharper3208]

How can you also attend a congregation that is not JW ? Why would she pray when she doesn't believe ? And why are you listening to what Lloyd has to say naughty naughty...