Ex-JW: "I'm considering marriage with a Jehovah's Witness who's living a double life"

(Voicemail no. 90) A previous caller who was withholding certain key details about her situation calls back with a fuller picture about her dilemma regarding a romantic relationship with a Jehovah's Witness who is living a double life.
Previous voicemail from caller: • Ex-JW: "How do I debat...
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[@harambetidepod1451]

Removing toxic people and fence sitters out of my life was the best decision.

[@pansepot1490]

Couldn’t agree more.

[@catmeow333]

His religion may not be a big deal to you, but until he’s really OUT, his religion is everything to him. Everything.

[@charliegarton4436]

CATmeow exactly! 💯

[@cherylseebreth328]

Sister, blunt advice: Put some wheels on your heels. Run for your life.

[@nodustbunny5871]

I agree.

[@gailcullinan349]

🤣🤣🤣 I said the same

[@Letts_prey]

...and throw those rose tinted glasses away!

[@CB-jc7kh]

Dang pill big and hard to swallow but it's so true she needs out of this for her sanity's sake. He is going to destroy her after marriage as he is going to say it's time for me to settle down spiritually as I now have a family. He is fully in mentally and will want her in too. My advice girl run and fall in love with yourself for awhile before going into a relationship again. I know it's easier said than done but I was in something similar so I know.

[@teresaw1207]

Run, run!! As fast as you can!

[@groovy9125]

One word: "RUN"

[@brownyoda1399]

Don’t do it my wife converted several years ago and it’s been downhill ever since. You’ll be the blame to all his problems simply because your not one of them. RUN 🏃🏽

[@allykatz]

Great advice!

[@sparklecanada0112]

Brownyoda. As an Ex-JW that has been married for over 40 yrs to a Staunch JW; I would Strongly Suggest to the Caller, Do Not Marry Anyone that is UnApologetically Supportive of Watchtower Org. It will Never go well. It is full of daily Turmoil and Traumas that most people can not predict or understand. It is a Very Unhappy Life to live as a wife, whether you choose to become a JW or not. It is like Gasoline and Fire. There is no true companionship or connection. He will live his life, 24/7/365 for "Jehovah"(which is truly just a cover up for whatever the Cult's Governing Body demands and teaches) and not for Your needs and expectations. You will want to have a Joint Commitment Marriage, but your efforts will be alone and not met. Plus, As the wife of a JW, All Women will be subjected to High Level Mysogyny and Discrediting as a Human Being. You become a Second Class(Lesser Value) Human Being. You will be Micromanaged in Every Area of Marriage by Watchtower Org and You will live a life of Submissiveness to Your Husband and to Watchtower Org Cult. Gaining Full and Accurate, Unbiased Information is key to Understanding What's In Store. Regrets are harder to fix than your doing the proper preparations of researching Watchtower Org and their Realities before undertaking marriage to a JW.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

Yes! In answer to the question 'what steps should you take?' I'd say "bloody big ones, and LOTS OF THEM'.

[@gailcullinan349]

Oh dear G-d, take your stuff and run in the opposite direction and do not stop until you have JW out of your head.

[@harambetidepod1451]

Best comment

[@kittylove2975]

"Honestly, we never have any issues"... Being romantically involved with a JW, is screaming..." We have a big issue"‼️😢

[@knownfelon]

Any “real” relationship is going to have “issues” that pop up now and then. When someone says “no issues”, it’s a red flag for me. Maybe a bit naive…

[@loressaollison3609]

Run Run

[@kittylove2975]

@@Peekaboo-Kitty : Yep‼️ Love is blind but... Marriage is a real eye-opener‼️😳 LoL‼️

[@sparklecanada0112]

@@Peekaboo-Kitty Actually, Love isn't blind...But, "Infatuation"...That surely IS. Love and Infatuation are two very different things. Love involves having Full Knowledge and Acceptance of All Similarities and Differences. Infatuation, on the other hand, only runs upon Emotions and Perceived Information and does not run on Facts or Full Acceptance. A marriage based upon Infatuation is fickle and unstable. A marriage based on actual love(which includes respect and empathy) and acceptance last a lifetime.

[@kittylove2975]

Matrimony with a JW will end up with a lot of "matramisery". 🥀

[@princessag584]

If he is “defending the organization” then you have no business being with him period! It will without a doubt fail 😩

[@sparklecanada0112]

Princessa G. What you say here, is 100% Accurate. I live it. If this man is defending the Watchtower Org; He will continue to raise that Cult onto a pedestal above her, anything that involves herself or her best interests or that of their own relationship. In Big Issues and Small. Watchtower Org will Always come First and Foremost, without debate allowed. Watchtower Org will infiltrate and Micromanage his actions and beliefs. It will affect her life, directly and indirectly. Not unless he becomes fully "out" or free from Watchtower Indoctrination, does that relationship have any kind of chance of healing and thriving. Marriage should be based upon Respect and Acceptance of Each Other as People, and not upon Cult Loyalty or Cult Conformity. It should be a marriage of 2, not 3("Three's A Crowd", fits accurately here).

[@junejunie2284]

Sounds to me this young man is sowing his wild oats with someone who understands his background before settling back down into the cult he defends as the truth.

[@FallenGrace-rj1iu]

This is a harsh reality. If it was anything different the relationship would be open and would be worth fighting for against the organization. Situations like this just hurt my heart

[@bellavega8048]

Yep, a lot of JWs date worldly girls for batting practice and then dump them for a pioneer when they decide to clean up his act, seen it a million times

[@wilde1]

@@bellavega8048 There are many unhealthy practices done within this particular sect, because it strips people of their basic rational and critical thinking abilities in favor of its controlled narrative+agenda. It is a "program".

[@Ava2969ny]

@@bellavega8048 -- Really? is that what is was? -- it seems to me that there was this mad dash to find a pioneer. If they were dating worldly girls for "batting practice," that's just pure evil...it shows what's really in that person's heart. Nevermind the fact that they are playing with someone's emotions, it doesn't matter that she worldly... she's still a human being. Absolutely shocking, disgusting, and evil on the part of the guy!!! Most of those so-called "brothers" pay for their actions by being stuck in incompatible/miserable marriages to a pioneer that they are a poor match for. I've also seen that too.

[@yuio4193]

Oh lord this hit a little too close to home. Honey... I don't know if it's a good decision for this lady to stay in that relationship. I've been exactly in her shoes and it was really my biggest mistake in life.

[@Ava2969ny]

@Yuio - I was in the same situation and it turned out to be my biggest mistake. She thinks her situation is unique, but just as it did for me, the relationship is likely to turn into the most humiliating and hurtful experience; because anyone who has to date you in secret is already setting you up for pain, shame, and humiliation in the long run; she should run for her life.

[@edgararturovargastorres3482]

So he says that the religion has shown him so much love... just ask him why do not tell himself with the elders about a relationship with an apostate, and let's see how the love that never fails works in that situation. It could be a way for him to get out, or for you to get out of a reaaaaaaly toxic relationship.

[@CarolineJoyAmico]

I agree.

[@marvelprince9893]

💯 Exactly

[@Duermeahora]

What a good idea. That way, he will learn. But maybe he doesn't really want to know because he suspects.

[@steriledial]

He doesn’t see that there is love outside of the organisation = fully indoctrinated. He’s still fully taken in by the circular lies about the outside ‘world’ he’s been fed for years. He still has the conditioned blinkers up. “Full blown” enough to be a serious relationship issue for you going forward.

[@bellavega8048]

Interesting that she didn’t pick up on that statement which is so telling. If he thinks no true love can be found outside the borg then he’s including her in that as well. He is not in love with her, just using her for a good time

[@rosiej.1473]

I would not advise a relationship with religious conflict, especially if that religion is a CULT. I am out, my husband is in and it is HARD. Almost everyday I wonder if we will make it and that is with 10 years of marriage and commitment and love growing. I do not recommend this path for you. My heart hurts for you.

[@wideawake9598]

My heart goes out to you. I want to share Vital information that is biologically factual. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and Proverbs 18:17 is helping JWs to lose their fear of objective research outside of WT. WT is stonewalling me since I learned that (Newsflash!) Breast Milk Contains Massive Amounts Of White Blood Cells. Even if Watchtower is unaware, which they are not, because they follow the Apostate sites, there is another factor they do know about. It is the ancient Rabbinic matter of "Pikuach Nefesh". The biblical Jesus applied it when healing people on the Sabbath. It was also used to help animals in need. Pikuach Nefesh took priority over religious laws in the bible and still does today. Saul and his army ate unbled meat when extremely tired and hungry, without punishment. Had blood transfusions been available in bible times they would have been approved to save lives. Please google Pikuach Nefesh. Also the fact that breast milk contains white blood cells (and stem cells) makes the biblical blood restriction applicable to animal blood used in sacrifice. The issue also related to not eating blood to avoid stumbling vulnerable ones. Ultimately I must question who really inspired the bible writers since "God" put white blood cells in breast milk. If you google "Breast milk contains white blood cells", you can show your husband it is a medical site. Also show him "Pikuach Nefesh". Once he sees it himself he can call the Service Department at Bethel regarding why they prohibit blood transfusions. They will stonewall him including asking him to put his concerns in a letter. I shared the above facts with elders and other witnesses, because witnesses including children are dying senselessly, martyred to the alter of Watchtower. Watchtower leaders have so much blood on their hands they will not admit their "error" for fear of more lawsuits. So those that know remain murderously silent as more faithful witnesses continue to die refusing blood. The soul is clearly not in the blood since people donate blood everyday without sacrificing themselves. The blood fraction fiasco requires other people to donate their blood. Again, "breast milk contains white blood cells". "Pikuach Nefesh" put the value of life above the laws. A number of us including elders, are using burner phones to anonymously share this and other information with JWs. These awake elders have access to phone lists. In the texts we identify ourselves as elders and mutual JW friends. We encourage anyone that does not want our information to block our numbers. We begin by citing 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and Proverbs 18:17. To date no one has blocked us. We are encouraging JWs and ExJws to obtain burner phones to protect their identities to prevent conflict or shunning. It's having a very positive effect in waking up JWs because the matter of breast milk having white blood cells and the Rabbinic Pikuach Nefesh is factual and not debatable. I hope this helps wake up your husband. Best Regards.

[@Ava2969ny]

@Rosie J -- did you meet your husband while he was a JW and he tried to convert you?

[@rosiej.1473]

@@Ava2969ny Hi, no we met when I was a JW. I have woken up and left the Watchtower but he is stil in.

[@Ava2969ny]

@@rosiej.1473 -- I'm curious as to how you managed to leave while being married? -- I have experienced so much emotional pain in this org; when I left I had a hard time trusting people because of being hurt by someone in the org. I now realize that I should have cut my ties a long time ago and maybe I would have been able to find a suitable partner. Perhaps I need therapy but I've struggled with forming basic friendships on the outside because of all the trust issues I developed while I was in the org.

[@DavidTaylor-ki2ir]

Sorry. Nothing in her speech or reasoning suggests she is ready for marriage and he sure as hell isn’t.

[@catmeow333]

My personal opinion? From experience, there’s not enough love in the world to live under the same roof as a devout witness and a civilian. You just don’t understand the intensity of the indoctrination and I doubt a counselor would either.

[@XNyanko]

Run. Run like hell. RUN!!!

[@liliapeterson789]

Get out of that relationship, I've been married to one and the arguments never stop, we have to avoid the topic but is not easy, is a long story, I just recommend to stop the relationship 🙏

[@jenfnp]

Religion, politics and finances are huge issues in a relationship. Over time, this will be your downfall. If children materialize, that will force the issue. Looking ahead, doesn’t look good for you.

[@gailcullinan349]

I hope that the caller reads the comments.

[@izabelarivera5211]

Even if you do love him how do you imagine the relationship survive the usual turbulences if there is no common understanding of the reality you live in. You want to save up and buy a house, he's expecting Armageddon tomorrow. Love is great but there is so much more to a successful relationship. Sometimes the best thing you can do is to move on.

[@joaquinsantana511]

Stay away from that guy don’t waste your life no matter what you do that is not gonna work my wife is a JW and she make my life a living hell she’s not even understand the damage she do it to me please please please stay away from that guy

[@dennisconstantine624]

Run for your life, once married things will get much more complicated and worse. This guy loves his WT first you will always come second or even less. GET OUT NOW.

[@clarity2478]

Sounds like you want to ask until you get your desired answer. Honey, concentrate on your own successful life, not limp through a very painful experience!

[@drensh5665]

I definitely would not want to be with someone who is already hiding his feelings for me with the whole world, his family and friends and it shouldn't be on the basis of I don't believe what you believe! I don't like the look of this dear, I believe that there is someone better out there for you it might be ideal for you now but the same thing is going to keep coming up all the time, are you going to keep hearing about how strongly he feels about his doctrine all your life.

[@steriledial]

Agreed. He’s already ‘living a double life’. Not very reassuring.

[@izabelarivera5211]

This is such a good point. The relationship is based on him not being honest in the first place.

[@beachmom2001]

I agree with this ^^^. You do not want to be with someone who hides his relationship with you. You want to be with someone who will shout from the mountaintops, his love for you.

[@bruderk4257]

Sorry, girl, but i have to say this: IF you really want to stay with him, then buckle up. It's gonna be a tough ride.

[@hrh4961]

She'll love every minute of it.

[@bellavega8048]

@@hrh4961 are you sick? This will be hell for her in the long run

[@bruderk4257]

@@hrh4961 I'm not so sure about that. What i am sure about is you talking sh*t. Of what use is your comment ? Or are you 14 years old and have heard hard ride and your brain went on autopilot ?

[@hrh4961]

@@bellavega8048 And being the hormonal female she is, she'll love every minute of it. Life cannot become too complicated and conflicted for this type of person.

[@hrh4961]

@@bruderk4257 Say goodnight, Gracie.

[@Borishal]

Very compassionate handling of the call. The bf is using her and will dump her as soon as he is pressured by the congregation. Or maybe do the sin now and repent later bit. Her friends won't be acceptable to him, not will her family unless they are JWs. He may end up shunned and blame her. If he is intellectually dishonest before they marry, then afterwards will not miraculously change.

[@harambetidepod1451]

His mind is still captured but the org. He can potentially turn on you at any moment.

[@morningglory9288]

If you love someone set them free, if he comes back he is yours if he doesn't he never was. Set him free, let him go. You will soon see where his priorities lays. If he comes back, he'll need to give up on the WT organisation, you will see whatever he chooses, that is what he loves the most and you will know where you stand,.

[@joek600]

thats from a 90's wishing card lol

[@joek600]

@@mariacardoso1477 Its like those Paulo Coelho quotes, sounds fancy, doesnt really works lol

[@mariacardoso1477]

@@joek600 Exactly" I read that card around 1988.

[@NIL0S]

To be honest it's rather true. I divorced, couldn't harmoniously live with my ex anymore. A year later we meet for boardgames 🤔😅

[@jaderose3886]

If you have doubts… walk away.

[@drensh5665]

Well, well the ugly unevenly yolked is rearing it's head! OMG 😱 you are trapped between your heart and his doctrine.

[@yourix2]

Him living a double life is irrelevant. Yes, he is being hypocritical. But he is when it come down to it a Jehova's Witness. He will have doctrine like behaviour that will become a problem in the future. Let alone marriages problems, what about raising the children? Family gatherings? Dealing with issues of medical care and so on. I only read the title of the video and thought it was a terrible idea. I know strong emotions are involved. Which makes this seem very complicated, but rest assured the answer is very simpel. This is a no go in my honest opinion.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I've seen this movie before. It never ends well.

[@phoenixchick5088]

He would need to fully wake up or there's gonna be probs. A counselor that doesn't know anything about cults and the root of the prob won't be helpful

[@MJBsays]

Great advice Agony Uncle Lloyd! 😆 Especially on the ideal match part, wholly agree. This guy sounds so indoctrinated that I doubt he would even consider marrying outside the religion. Sure, he plays away-games now, but when it will be time to confront his family and elders to admit he has a non-JW girlfriend and very likely will face being DF, he'll get that mental/emotional shock that will pull him fully back into best behaviour leaving you empty handed. Also, your story reminded me my 2nd serious bf story, not for the religion but the part where you said "it's the best relationship I've had, he's the ideal partner, etc". My 2nd bf was exactly that -in my head- as my previous relationship was quite bad on many levels I had fallen for the new guy because we got along well, were the same age, liked the same things, shared intered and sense of humour (also he was hot AF). It was all a "box-ticking exercise" that I had done. The relationship went on for about 2 years and ended catastrophically because as Lloyd said relationship are not algorithms. And when we broke up I was devastated because I couldn't understand why it shouldn't work. And it wasn't until I met the guy that is now my husband that I realised how the 2nd bf wasn't the best relationship I ever had. Not even close. Point being, sometimes we can focus on the wrong things thinking they are right, when they are not.

[@traceysankar-charleau4003]

This is so crazy.. it's doom to fail.. if you're a match to Begin with you would never be conflicted

[@bgramirez966]

My advice, don't do it!

[@cassandrasmith5265]

You don’t see it now, but a person can only bury himself or his true self for so long. You WILL LOSE...... get out now.

[@reejames4235]

Run run as fast as you can

[@mikedraper138]

Having been in the very relationship you are describing, I feel for you, but can tell you that your best move going forward is to run, not walk, 'RUN'.. Though it may be initially painful, it will pale in comparison to the miserable life you are setting yourself up for. I married a pomi jw (physically out, mentally in). I thought like you, I had found the perfect person. At one point early on, he assured me he'd never go back to his religion, and I believed him. Had several good years, we had good jobs, a nice home, enjoyed holidays, a great circle of friends and an uninhibited lifestyle, which had included behaviors that he thoroughly enjoyed, though would have surely gotten him df'd had anyone known of it. We had the perfect life, till his indoctrination kicked in and he went full tilt on his own road to becoming the best jw he could be. Our life changed drastically. It ultimately destroyed our marriage as well as the relationships with all of our friends. All he cared about was going back to his meetings while I sat home alone. His personality completely changed into someone I felt like I didn't even know. All the fun was gone. I'm out of it now, the marriage. Pretty much lost everything and it took more than a few years to get my life back together. Believe me, you won't see it coming, and it will pull the rug right out from underneath you and turn your entire life upside down. If you're in therapy, hopefully it is with somone who understands the dynamics of this cult and most importantly, the control it has over its members. You sound intelligent and reasonable. Do your own research! Read Lloyd's books, as well as Steven Hassan's 'Combatting Cult Mind Control'. Please think long and hard about your future. You only have one life to live.

[@problemswithmark]

Maybe I should do a call in session 🤔. Keep All the good work up Lloyd

[@cynidesappi2201]

I guess I was in the situation of the boy.. a couple of years ago.. i was in a relationship with someone who was not a Jw, and hoping i can slowly teach her and bring her into the organization.. So i totally can relate to what the boy is doing.. For me on the other hand, i couldnt bring myself to force my gf to join this organization, even though she was willing to do it for me.. And im so glad she didnt, cos i just woke up a couple of months ago and i am finally free.. We are on our way to get married and spend our free lives together.. Thanks for your awesome work Lloyd. You were instrumental in my waking up..

[@nightwalker2350]

Runaway, runaway, runaway. What else needs to be said.

[@ryoichinakamura5241]

Her concerns are spot on. She knows what the right thing to do but it is hard. That religion will be the stumbling block in the future...also some very wise words from Lloyd.

[@glorialawrence2301]

.l regret the day mydear husband got in to jw ,lost him listening TO man made rules , brain washed him , At the end off his life he kept saying sorry to me and our6 children we never lost the love for each other,my children unhappy life my husband came home from meetings unhappy my life was hard,a çolt takers ,lwould like the money my husband gave no one cared,at All !

[@bjeb2316]

GIRL...RUN!!!! I MARRIED MY CHILDHOOD SWEETHEART WE ARE BOTH DF, IM 100% APOSTATE, AND HES TRYING TO GET BACK IN. THE CULT MENTALITY EFFECTS DAMN NEAR ALL ASPECTS OF OUR LIFE, ALTHOUGH I LOVE HIM DEARLY, IF I HAD IT TO DO OVER THERES NO WAY IN HELL I WOULD MAKE THE SAME DECISION OF MARRIAGE WITH HIM

[@adamhill4141]

I have had my fair share of bad relationships and I can tell you if you are fighting about the current situation it is only going to intensify with time as the initial attraction wears off. There are many great potential mates out there that are not going to bring the truckload of drama that you are going to experience with this man.

[@mariamillwood7672]

It's obvious that the young lady is still "IN." Why would she want to be in a relationship with a PIMI.? Because she still wants to have a "connection" with the org.! She's a POMI, he's a PIMI.! A POMI + A PIMI=?

[@NIL0S]

A POPIMIMI? 🤔😂

[@mariamillwood7672]

@@NIL0S Ok Niilo.! I'll accept that.! 😀

[@reginaldpurvis1091]

Been there done that it doesn’t work she’s only fooling herself stop trying to justify the situation you will be miserable and regret it leave him alone before he leaves you alone your best bet is go back to watchtower or he leaves there’s know in between

[@madamvaudelune3298]

For what its worth a human being who cannot be true to their own soul CANNOT be true to another.. Integrity is a necessary component of a loving relationship and it is not a dispensible commodity. If he considers your presence in his life too great a shame to bear, then you are better off without this 'brave' fellow.

[@cheryllakin6736]

If they love so much go be a full blown JW. Get off the fence and pick one. And if the caller has no intention of being in the organization, why would you choose something with someone who could drag you back in to a toxic place.

[@dizzygoat8379]

Conditional love isn’t love. Period.

[@Kate-ue9gf]

Linked to Jw’s, please run for your life to save yourself. So many other choices, take your time as it’s a life time commitment otherwise life will get very difficult for you.

[@unidentifiediconography8837]

Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

[@schrecksekunde2118]

He's a jw and a hypocrite which is even worse, he wants to enjoy his life and whenever it suits him he wants to go back to "the truth" while sacrificing her like that. And the fact that he's not even willing to LOOK at info for the relationships sake is a clear sign that the relationship is temporary and his cult is his choice. Don't do this to yourself, Take care and control!

[@dasani9347]

I am currently PIMO working on a plan to get out. I had a situation where I became friends with a non believer and then our relationship started to become something much more. I fell in love with her and she claimed at the time to be in love with me. The only real obstacle was my religion and it ended up costing me. She basically told me our religions were incompatible and we couldn't be together. I made it clear to her that I don't believe it anymore and haven't for a very long time, even before I met her. I also made it clear that it was my goal to get out of my religion and that I was going to do so. I explained to her my plan for getting out, but then I also made clear to her that if she was "all in" then so was I and with her love and support I could get out sooner and more drastically. However she just insisted that,"She loved me, but she wasn't going to be the reason why I left my religion". I tried getting across to her that I wasn't leaving because of her and that this was something I have wanted for quite a while before we even met. Sadly she didn't understand and was persistent that she loved me, but we couldn't be together because of my religion. I loved her so much and still do. We are still friends, and it is incredibly hard for me. This is just one more thing this fucking cult has stollen from me... They stole my teens and twenties from me, and then they stole the love of my life... I have made clear to her that even though she wouldn't be with me, I am still leaving no matter what. I am doing it for me. She has moved on and is dating someone else. Unfortunately he is a toxic piece of shit that uses her, manipulates her, controls her, and doesn't treat her good at all. So the way I see it, we both sort of got screwed in this whole situation. The thing that makes it hard is that she still tries to convince me to stay in my religion. She just doesn't understand why I have to get out. I have explained alot, but she is an outsider who has never been in a cult so she just doesn't understand. Even though I love her, I have mostly given up hope that she will ever give me a chance, even once I am out. There's still some hope left in me though, as my heart just can not accept it. No matter how hopeless it seems. The only good thing that came from it, is that it furthered my determination to get out and I have taken steps In that direction. It just feels like now I'm being forced to play the long game.

[@beachmom2001]

Run don't walk to get away from this very conflicted young man. I promise you this will not end well. Save yourself from that heartache now!

[@teresaw1207]

Where's all the love the organization is showing to him gonna go when the elders find out he's gone on a trip with a "worldly" girl?

[@trudyb4841]

As someone who lost a potential life partner to this cult I say RUN. It's not worth it until and unless he wakes up. This is going to mess up with your mental and emotional health in ways you can't imagine. Relationships are already tough work. Adding a cult in the mix just complicates things incredibly. Maybe there are some who have made it work somehow but those are very few exceptions.

[@Ava2969ny]

@Trudy -- yours is the best advice I've read so far. I, too, lost a potential life partner for all the wrong reasons, and when you said that the experience will mess up the caller emotionally and mentally, that's right on point. She should run for her life before it's too late and she ends up making the biggest mistake of her life.

[@SkinnyJollof]

I needed to read this today. Thank you

[@trudyb4841]

@@SkinnyJollof I am glad it helped!

[@suejoyful5576]

I would like to hear more of your follow ups. That would be so great to listen.

[@gailcullinan349]

Great reply Lloyd.

[@harmkev2]

"Drop a dime" on him, report him to the elders and he will be disfellowshipped. Then you guys can be free of the cult to decide your lives. Force him to stop being a hypocrite.

[@201stars]

That will only turn him POMI. He has to leave on his own terms.

[@harmkev2]

@@201stars It will give them a chance to live together ("in sin" as they are now) and at least determine compatibility.

[@barose1]

And force into a life of being shunned without him choosing? The relationship will be over in a flash.

[@NIL0S]

It has to be his honest decision to leave the cult, not hers

[@allnamestakenisnot]

"Where do I go?" Maybe into the arms of the only person in your life whos giving you GENUINE love and affection.

[@jillcassill8743]

thers no guarantee this man will ever wake up. also one should never feel in hurry to marry. if someone is your soulmate they will gladly wait for you. I married someone years ago who I thought was a "great match" but did not love him but couldn't admit it to myself. I spent 16 years with him and had to get on antidepressants as I was so depressed!! why be in a hurry? find yourself before you even think of marriage..we don't need someone that badly unless our own life is not in order or fulfilling. this wreaks of desperation. pleas get counseling !!

[@tamaraheseltine4455]

LLOYD you forgot one thing... DOES HE LOVE HER.... FIRST, thing I would say to her is " the only person, feelings, thoughts, ideas you can control are YOUR own." So all the wishing, hoping, maybes, if only's are your way of trying to control another person and get the outcome you want. Start believing what he says and stop trying to change him. HE obviously likes you and your company but until he ON HIS OWN, FOR HIS OWN REASONS leaves the religion you are signing up for HEARTACHE beyond your wildest dreams. Even if he left because of you, it could and would probably come back to haunt you. Questions: What is going to happen IF anyone knew he was dating an APOSTATE? What would happen if you guys got married and had kids? Would you want to raise a child as a Jehovah Witness? NO birthdays, holidays, blood transfusions, on and on and on. THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK YOU WANT it sounds like. I think you need to say BYE and let him decide what he wants on his own. If he wants to leave let him do it without any influence from you. THEN if you and he are not in a serious relationship with someone else get a cup of coffee together and build on a foundation that might have a chance. You are wasting precious time and energy on a doomed situation that will leave you heartbroken. He is obviously leading a double life now by having any relationship with you. That in itself shows he is not trustworthy to something he feels is ideal and wonderful namely his faith as a Jehovah Witnesses. That can be an indicator of his ability to justify being unloyal in other areas. RUN my dear and find someone that is available and knows what they believe and stands by it. Nothing worse than being in a relationship with someone you can not trust.

[@有言非語]

Well, I think he was asking her if she loved him because he was engaging her, not the boyfriend. Besides, she can’t really know if he loves her, she only knows if she loves him or not.

[@tamaraheseltine4455]

@@有言非語 I agree but if they are both not on the same page in their feelings the rest doesn't matter.

[@有言非語]

@@tamaraheseltine4455 Sure.

[@andreasomera3153]

My brother dated a woman who was just like your boyfriend (JW - but living a double life). Fast forward a few years, they are married and she gave him an ultimatum, either you join the organization or we are done… by then they had 2 kids and he saw no other option. Now I’m not allowed to see my brother and my nieces because I’m “worldly”. My advice… RUN!!!!

[@stevenmara1025]

The phrase “ideal person to be in a relationship with” is one I used a lot in my teens and early 20s when I felt like I HAD to be in a relationship and would try to force the issue with whichever person was most convenient at the time. I remember being very unwilling to stray outside my comfort zone and ignoring the signs that things wouldn’t work out with whatever person I was with at the time. Frankly it sounds like you’re in the same position, and this will implode spectacularly. Shrug. The learning experience you’re going to go through will suck, but hopefully you’ll appreciate it once you’re through to the other side.

[@bigsr.644]

This is sooo fascinating the organization really does put people in precarious positions But it really forces you to sit or get off the pot When you don’t do it with this organization and try to play both sides you really do contribute to your own misery 🤔

[@artemisrising1693]

She is doing all the fun stuff with this bloke - dating, eating out, dressing up etc. A relationship at some point involves emptying the bin, cleaning the toilet and snivelling through a cold, and all that before they both need to pay the bills. Then there is the family, namely his...is she 'good enough' to meet them, will he put her first above the expectations of his family. It will 'get real' and only then will she know how much he loves her. This might be too late for her. Red Flag Central. Good luck to her.

[@bellavega8048]

Yeah, she’s young and doesn’t know better, this will be a disaster for her

[@foxiedogitchypaws7141]

He thinks he can change her around and in time she will be reinstated and they will live happily ever after. So go into it with Eyes Wide Open. He will not change and will always be trying to get her into the truth. The elders will be hounding him also.

[@esmeraldapooner751]

It sounds like she is setting herself for a future divorce. Because your marriage will be with constant arguing over every move make like celebrating holidays. Furthermore, if you have kids they will be very unhappy and dragged into an unhappy relationship along with you.

[@jmmarshall5492]

Very good advice.

[@adelmofaccini8181]

When I married my wife, she was a non practicing JW, which I was not aware of. After the birth of our two children, she went back to fold and was PIMI. We had constant struggles, continued battles, stress. The marriage took a precipitous fall. Before her returning, I was a happily married man. During the drift back to the congregation, it was l living hell. I did not divorce her due to children. Not sure is that was a wise decision. I loved my children dearly. I suffered tremendously with this situation. The famous words, that I remember, "There is no compromise" haunts me to this day. I am now aged and really do not care, I have become, indifferent to her and the cause. I think they are just nutcases and feel sorry for them. I would run away, you are asking for nothing but problems, DO NOT marry him.

[@cherylseebreth328]

Everybody is one voice. Hope she listens.

[@marshathake2349]

I agree with you 100% Lloyd!! 👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻👍🏻🌟

[@tinahill2134]

Run while you can!!! 😞 Ex JW

[@lfrancis8980]

It feels like she's trying to talk herself into this.

[@duncandisorderly822]

Seriously, it is very difficult for a marriage to work married to a JW if you are not - that was my case for 15 years after I faded. The meetings and field service take up a lot of a person’s quality time and with the pressure to do ever more to support the Organisation, your relationship gets squeezed. There came a point where I realised that we had no common friends and no common interests. Rarely could we even sit down, or go out, and watch a film together as inevitably it had too much sex, or violence, or an unacceptable theme (my partner screamed at me once for watching a Harry Potter film in the presence of my son). Holidays were moved to align with Assemblies and the Memorial with the location of the nearest congregation being a consideration. Factor in children and how they are being raised and it can be a pressure cooker - the Organisation will put your partner under pressure to indoctrinate them behind your back if necessary. IMO if you still want to consider marriage, your boyfriend has to make a choice now (you or the JWs) before there is any commitment but, even then, it may take years to escape the indoctrination already suffered. I hope you can find love and joy, but it is a treacherous path if your partner is a JW.

[@anonymousprofessor8866]

Leaders of Cults such as The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, Jim Jones of The People's Temple, Marshall Applewhite of Heaven's Gate, David Koresh of Branch Davidians, Ryuho Okawa of Happy Science, etc all required their followers to have complete trust in them, their leadership and their teachings.

[@mailill]

I think Lloyd's way of responding to these voice mails is so kind and thoughtful, that I'm almost tempted to invent a JW framework around some of the personal issues I'm currently wresteling with, just to get some of Lloyd's great no-nonsense input. But that would be dishonest, sooooo ... I guess I have to wait until a JW with similar kind of problems turns up in these voicemails 😁.

[@joek600]

Im really impressed by the way he is handling most of these cases. It would be a fine line even for a professional. I think that Lloyd should pursue higher education on the field of psychology. Its never too late.

[@NIL0S]

Psychology is really interesting, but one problem with it is that it tends to pathologise everything. There is merit to offering an open ear and a shoulder to lean on, even if you haven't studied the human psyche. Empathy alone can get you very far. Being experienced also helps. Humility is a bonus. And actually listening. Lloyd has/does all of these things.

[@mailill]

@@joek600 I have been thinking about those lines, too. He certainly has the skills, both for counciling and for higher academic education. Yet, I wonder if psychology wouldn't annoy Lloyd. It is not really an exact science, to say the least.

[@mailill]

@@NIL0S I totally agree. Also, psychology is still a very young science, full of theories about illnesses and treatments that are not all that well founded in science. And psychiatry has a history of supression, abuse of power and even violence that is "worthy" of a cult. I just read an article about the dark side of the history of psychiatry, and I have to say it really gave me the creeps. Poor patients, being guinea pigs for mad doctors who thought it a brilliant idea to give them "treatments" like extracting all their teeth, injecting them with malaria, putting them in an insulin coma, day-long baths, brain damaging cramp-therapy with Diazol, electroshocks with no anesthesia, lobotomy etc ...

[@steriledial]

I’ve always figured law would have suited Lloyd given the chance of higher education. If I was wrongly accused of something, and needed a thorough defence lawyer, I’d be searching for one with the character traits that Lloyd possesses.

[@sammyytube5999]

Sounds like the guy is just enjoying his fleshly desires due to much restrictions and the woman calling it the best relationship that she's had because it is a challenge to find some good nurtured qualities in a mate these days. They are satisfying each others physical and emotional needs while they are both dealing with some unfinished mental business that his hard to break through with each other. She seems more in like with the guy than he is with her b/c she has been out longer and searching for too long. Still in the end, they are just convenient for each other until there is counseling or a better way to communicate with each other with more research and a sensitive presentation, that is if they both feel that there is something there more than the physical to make it worth working for.

[@valriis9745]

How much does he love you? I was indoctrinated when I fell in love and I made up my mind to give up my eternal hope for being with her. I felt I can't live without her. I stayed indoctrinated for longer but since I made up my mind to be willing to die I did not seek contact with jw again. And slowly over time I woke up. Men are self sacrificial by nature. Its in our genes whether we know it or not. If he loves you enough to give up his dreams of eternity he will have easier time waking up. If he's scared of doom more than life with you then I'm sorry.

[@Ava2969ny]

@Val Riis -- I'm sorry but men, as a species, are generally "not" self-sacrificing; that's the reason men can leave a relationship behind in a heartbeat if it doesn't meet their "needs." I'm not saying all men, but many will not hesitate to dump a woman if she doesn't meet their needs or earn him the public approval and adoration that he so desperately craves in order to define himself; so if a particular woman is not going to make him look good in front of his congregation, he will not hesitate to walk away. Buyer beware!

[@bondimedia8494]

Tell him if he can read Crisis of Conscience (Ray Franz) then he can keep getting action. You’ll know.

[@toforgetisagem8145]

Trying to change someone to fit who you want them to be is abuse. Helping them to change to who they want to be is support. It is selfish to go into a relationship where you only want what you want, the other person must have their choices respected too.

[@alisonschmitt9533]

I feel for her actually. I hear myself in her, but for different reasons. I think she loves him, but some people don’t use that word too liberally in case it makes them sound overly emotional or foolish. My advice for her is to look at the big picture here. She is intensely attracted to an unavailable man. Look at that. That’s the issue here. Attraction to unavailable people is a trauma response and a function of CPTSD. I’d just encourage some research around that. I was born in and I’ve struggled with this my entire life. I always find the most intense compatibility with men who are unavailable. They are always perfect if it wasn’t for… fill in the blank. I’ve had a ton of therapy and I’m still unpacking it. “If only the religion wasn’t a factor”. But it is. And that’s the framework you are working within. And your relationship is the way it is because it’s there. Also I don’t agree with Lloyd that loving someone makes an impossible relationship possible. But that’s just my two cents. Good luck.

[@mackgarcia4668]

Turn around and run away. NOW!!...not later or in a bit. Not tomorrow or next week. RUN RUN NOW!!

[@cygnustsp]

No. No. No. No. God no. He will choose his beliefs over you. Unless he makes a conscious decision to quit the religion get away from him. Don't make it a condition of the relationship, just tell him his beliefs are nonsense and if he wants to live a normal life you choose me over this stupid religion. There's literally almost no way to make this work. When I decided the jw religion was stupid my jw wife left me. She came back to me but it was never the same. I'm ashamed to say I treated her terribly and eventually decided it couldn't work. Since, many years later, she'd quit the religion too. I wonder what would have happened if I stayed with her. All I know is any ties to the jw religion is a bad thing. Lloyd is right on.

[@jeremydegraaf.nz.1471]

WELL Ask Him To Prove The Credibility And The Transparency of WATCHTOWER.. Like The Shares Held and Purchased, Kingdom Halls Ownership and Sales. SEXUAL ABUSE REDRESS SYSTEM.. TWO WITNESS RULE.. Where will you Go... Go To The Source...

[@rosemaryduckworth3860]

I would ask you to seriously consider whether the person who seems so ideal is a bit of a chameleons or people pleaser. Easy to get along with but at core takes his security from being a JW. in a marriage he would have much more influence and power, mightand as someone has already said could turn on you as you could be threatening the security he derives from membership.

[@201stars]

I’m sorry Lloyd but love in a relationship isn’t enough. They aren’t compatible simple as that. Love can’t cover the fact that he’s probably sneaking around to be with her, or that they’ll never see eye to eye on things. What if they have kids, how will she act when he tries to indoctrinate their kids, what if she wants to put up a Christmas tree and give gifts to her kids. How will she put up with the constant pressure he will put on her to try and convert her? There’s no future in this relationship until he’s mentally out himself. There will always be turmoil.

[@larisabaker2745]

Omgosh! I was married for 27 yrs to a man who was out but fully indoctrinated. He couldn't be a JW and he couldn't be anything else. He ended up drinking himself to homelessness then death because of the trauma he never dealt with. Im not religious at all never have been. It's one of those life conundrums "had I known then, what I know now". Please don't get further involved without serious contemplation. He's probably thinking you will come back in eventually. You might just be his project.

[@schnurpsel66]

Dear Lloyd, you have made a mistake: Try to use the standard KZbin search to find the Voicemail #31. No chance. Please do not forget to put the number of the voicemail in the video description. Thanks a lot for your videos.

[@LloydEvans]

A direct link to the old voicemail was already in the description.

[@jeremieanderson6614]

Don't get married

[@quisthegreat13-KalEl]

Either she's gna have to come back or he needs to leave

[@BrunoM19T11]

Damn, now I'm really invested. Hope things work out.

[@slimfadey1901]

In my experience many people that you think are half-ass witnesses are more mentally rigid and dogmatic than witnesses who are considered in "good standing". I don't know why, some may feel that they aren't good enough for the religion. I quit in my 20s because I felt I wasn't good enough. It took another 20 years before I realized I'm not the problem they are. Good luck...i mean good fortunateness.

[@Calumniation]

This man may he ostracized from his family because of the trip you guys went on. His religion will force him to choose between you and his god.

[@pansepot1490]

He should choose himself if he’s honest. Seems like a guy who wants the best of both worlds without been fully commit to neither.

[@AfterTheRains]

This is not a trivial issue. Unfortunately, you are oceans apart when you expect to have a serious relationship based on dishonesty.

[@trinamanty1510]

yeah-- I would worry too-- if he is showing one face to the congregation-- and still doing things he knows won't be approved of if Witness family and friends foiund out-- Sure he might be the best boyfriend ever--Witneses are very good at conforming to expectations-- so he could be doing the exact same thing with you by showing you what you want to see, but ultimately his real feelings will come out-- and he has a lot more freedom to get his romantic needs met "by a worldy girl" you know perfectly well he would not be allowed to travel with a Witness girl-- so he may be "dating" you for the convience of sex and romance-- I know some people have had to "fake it" for a while before they leave-- but let's face it -he is being dishonest-- he is hiding you from his Witness family and frineds and you desearve some one who is proud of who you are and being with you-- even though you are describing your self as an "apostate" you are putting yourself right back in the same situation you left-- and it probably is scary-- to start dating non-Witnesses -- I am trying to get every thing else in my life under control before I worry about romance-- and I am in mid-life-- but it is too tough to make a living and achieve economic security with out the support of family and friends and I still have to help out with my family because my Witness parents caused a lot of damage-- so I understand where you are coming from but an unhappy marriage and messy divorce is not going to help you with the quality of your life overall

[@phinehas55]

Run fast, run far

[@cherylseebreth328]

Plain and simple, Dave.

[@Bubbles-ym9mu]

Going to a therapist so you can be strong to endure till he make up his mind, Gaarl, what you doing. You are someone on the outside he can reveal his true feelings without repercussions. When his friends find him a JW wife he be off. He being honest with you. You afraid to lose him but he was never yours just a shoulder. Take care.

[@KirbyScruples]

This girl sounds logical and like she holds back her emotions as sacred and is not forthcoming about being in love with the JW guy because she just doesn't want to expose her true emotions for him. She seems to be having a battle between the heart and the mind. Her emotions seem to be very private to her. She sounds like a fact over feelings type of person.