Caller: Sam Harris is Right and You're Wrong on Islam!

[@coosoorlog]

Seder debunks literally everything this caller throws at him and people still aren't convinced. That's what fundamentalism is all about.

[@michaelmarini94]

Seder didnt "debunk" anything. All he did was use the same old left-wing talking points that have been debunked over and over. Harris has a tight grip on the truth.

[@512Squared]

@@michaelmarini94 And that grip on truth is so strong that you don't even have to articulate it to us? It's enough to just say "it's the truth"!? You are either lazy or deluded. Neither is good for you.

[@michaelmarini94]

@@512Squared Great. If you're that confident, give one thing you think he is wrong on and I'll tell you how he's right.

[@512Squared]

@@michaelmarini94 ironic that your reply admits to using confirmation bias to assert a truth even before you've heard any evidence. That's just silly Michael - grow up

[@michaelmarini94]

@@512Squared Then it's clear you're the one with confirmation bias. I bet you're just one of those people who get triggered whenever someone uses the words "Radical Islam."

[@SirChristopherMcFarlane]

Gamergate and Islam videos attract dislikes much like anti-Libertarian videos. Perhaps it's all the same crowd, Sam.

[@shinemperor8950]

It is the same crowd.... a shame really, but they do have a "type"...

[@6hughmungus9]

ufster81 I would love you to say that to my face you little bitch.

[@LTYK4011]

All of them ganes Muslims! Am I the archetype of people whatching this?

[@hemek]

Couldn't agree with you more... They call progressives and liberals snowflakes... Watch them melt and get triggered just as much when facts are presented... Facts don't care about your feelings

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@ argument

[@lunchmeat84]

I love how the caller repeatedly placed himself with maher and harris. "The point harris and maher and ME are trying to make..."

[@asgharabbas2193]

Lol

[@wasdwasdedsf]

hes the one caling in to debate, its a valid fucking thing to illustrate what you Think and what your argument is. why is that so crazy since you people Think those are incompetent hacks. you put yourself above them so why shouldnt he be able to put himself atleast at the same level?

[@chuckecheese5251]

@@wasdwasdedsf Harris fans never make arguments they just claim superior non existent knowledge

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@chuckecheese5251 oh Another one wthout arguments, what a surprise. such as the non existant knowledge of you guys claiming muslims actually dont Think the way that they report to do, and that their Death cult isnt actually a big problem at all? and the knowledge you guys have that harris and anyone pointing out these things or discussing science is intrinsically, objectively a racist and an islamaphone?

[@secularsam7678]

Self aggrandizement at its finest

[@jones1351]

Michael Brooks, can we say nail on the head? at 9:14 '... where he's right, he's obvious...' For me, Sam Harris adds absolutely nothing to the conversation, except 'rationally' cloaked bigotry. He couldn't tell me the sky is blue.

[@Jfkd1989]

@@wasdwasdedsf lmao, fantastic point. Fucking dummy lol

[@fathel9221]

Rip

[@erockreinhardt6815]

Holy shit sam Seder immediately caught this fool on literally the 2nd word of his opening thesis. "Fundamentalist" is a pretty damned important distinction.

[@Lightningkuriboh]

Erock Reinhardt that was insane I didn’t catch it and was like what did he say??? LOL

[@SadisticSenpai61]

I caught it too. Of course, I'm a former fundie myself so it's something I'm very aware of. There is a terrible tendency to take one particular group of a religion and then condemn the entire religion based on that group's actions/beliefs. And it's mostly prevalent among atheists that don't really know much about the religion they're talking about.

[@ishaangovardhan9090]

@@SadisticSenpai61 THe bible itself is homophobic, ffs. So is the Kuran. And a non-fundamentalist christian is less christian than a fundie christian. The more of the Bible you follow, the more christian you are. Fundie christians are simply the logical conclusion of christianity - ergo, christianity is an inherently evil ideology (so is islam). Pro-gay christians are confused and their identity is oxymoronic.

[@ishaangovardhan9090]

Non-fundie christians and non-fundie muslims can support gay rights all they want - but they need to do it with the knowledge that they are explicitly and unequivocally going AGAINST their own religion (and acting like hypocrites) when they do so.

[@ishaangovardhan9090]

@@SadisticSenpai61 Non-fundie christians and non-fundie muslims can support gay rights all they want - but they need to do it with the knowledge that they are explicitly and unequivocally going AGAINST their own religion (and acting like hypocrites) when they do so.

[@RoninDave]

Look at the dislike bar! Change your opinion because some anonymous people disliked your video! You are not allowed to have an opinion which is not popular! Basically the caller sounds like he is the defending the right to make generalized sweeping criticisms such as the one Harris made that night. This is one thing that have I noticed in the wake of the Harris-Affleck fiasco is that Harris fans want to be able to criticize Islam with sweeping generalizations and to criticize their criticism is somehow depriving them of their right. The other thing I have noticed is that a number of Harris fans show a similar ignorance of the socio-political ethnic realities of these various regions as the conservatives do.

[@RoninDave]

The Air Show where are the legitimate criticisms? Mostly what I have seen is butthurt Harris fans whining that someone has dared to attacked their disingenuous hero. The religion as a whole has less to do with the current situation than one would think and Harris's kind of criticism just falls into generalizations that are pointless.

[@RoninDave]

The Air Show and that sounds like an Iranian issue not an issue for everyone who is Muslim. have they executed people in Morocco for heresy? In Turkey? in Algeria?

[@RoninDave]

The Air Show but if similar countries don't do as such it has less to do about the religion and more to do with the particular circumstances within that country ie go beyond surface observations

[@Culturebreach]

Another thing i've noticed is that they keep throwing 'Muslim apologist' around. They, like Sam Harris, think all Muslims are one group. Ignorance is a bliss with them.

[@RoninDave]

Culturebreach exactly. I find a number of these Harris fans as ignorant as fox conservatives on the Islamic world or rather more importantly on the circumstances of individual countries and cultures. Their main bone to pick in all this is that they feel people are telling them not to do something - in this case criticize Islam (which isn't the case but whatever) - and they are damned if somebody is going to tell them what to do or not to do.

[@zzendawgie]

Sam S and Michael are so clear and straight forward on the subject, how are people not understanding them?

[@coltonclement]

RIP Micheal Brooks. He was amazing.

[@evelkidnievel]

the point Michael Brooks interjects @ 6:38 is exactly on point.

[@kathykelly5930]

NO, he is constantly making the appeals to consequences fallacy in these videos, "we can't criticise because this will happen."

[@evelkidnievel]

***** dishonest? it's a hypothetical. i wasn't attributing that to Harris here. I'm saying if we cut through all the poll sifting nit picking and for arguments sake, could come to that conclusion.. what is the next step? - what's humorously ironic is that you're the one creating a strawman here.

[@kathykelly5930]

evelkidnievel You're so dumb you don't even realize you're committing the same fallacy, and you are completely strawmanning.

[@evelkidnievel]

***** they way one would respond would be to provide some basis to support your argument. You can repeat that i'm "being dishonest" and "gaslighting" until you're blue in the face. That however, does not make it so and is not an argument. again (If you'd like to be productive).. think about what might be the best method to move forward once "we", collectively and finally all agree with Harris. What then should be done ?

[@evelkidnievel]

kathy kelly lol.. HowlOfMinerva MUST be your sockpuppet account. Your complete inability to understand or correctly identify logical fallacy is almost hilarious if it weren't so pathetic.

[@researchnews9378]

I love it when people point to the likes and dislikes on a video as if it bolsters their case (lol).

[@wasdwasdedsf]

it does… these frauds videos are trash

[@Dante-420]

This guy would have argued for geocentrism 500 years ago by his own logic lol

[@AdamCHowell]

Looking at the likes dislikes of this video only a small number of viewers bother to vote and many of the negatives could be by Harris fans who browse youtube for Harris related videos.

[@Allin7days]

I wonder how many Americans know that ~60% of Muslims in the world are living in Asia and another ~20% spread out in the world other than the Middle East region- very peacefully. We also have very good diplomatic relations with the majority of those countries. Don't make it a religious thing. You're a way off and it won't help to solve the problem.

[@froggyy]

caller : sam harris bill maher and me

[@TheHuxleyAgnostic]

The number of Sam Harris fan(atic)s is astoundingly ironic.

[@michaelmarini94]

Why wouldn't he have fans? He is an intelligent human being who displays hardcore facts all the time. Unlike Seder or Brooks.

[@TheHuxleyAgnostic]

@@michaelmarini94 And they have reading comprehension problems, to boot. Hint: the number isn't the ironic part, dumb dumb.

[@judahjayson684]

@@michaelmarini94😂😂 Sam Harris attacks liberals, do you know 90% of educators and scholars are liberals.

[@TheDevindevine]

the problem with religions are not the fundamentalists. the problem is the fundamentals of most religions.

[@entertain7us148]

... seems like both are pretty problematic....

[@dajusta87]

What's funny is that the reaction to fundamentalist Islam is fundamentalist ignorance.

[@NYsummertimeCHI]

The problem with fundamentalist religion is the fundamentals of those religions. The extent to which someone views morality by a literalist reading of their holy books (or at least some source of tradition that purports to convey divine command) is the extent to which their religion holds sway over their thinking and the extent to which secular ethics and moral reasoning are subverted. Fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Muslims aren't homophobic *just* because they're fundamentalist. The fundamentals of the religion matter. Fundamentalist Buddhists are not homophobic. Fundamentalist Muslims do not push for legal restrictions on abortions in the first trimester. Fundamentalist Jains do not aspire to become a martyr for their religion. Sam Harris acknowledges the existence of non-literalist readings of holy texts and non-fundamentalist belief systems. But in that context their beliefs still clearly demonstrate a link to their behaviour. Their beliefs are simply more influenced by secular forms of ethics than the religious edicts of their founders in those areas where their views differ from those edicts.

[@Staev]

+Nicholas Yager If what you say here were true, all fundamentalist Christians would be as intransigently anti-shellfish as they are anti-LGBT rights. Similarly, all fundamentalist Muslims would strictly follow the verses outlawing sneak attacks and calling for peace and brotherhood between Muslims, Christians, and Jews. The reality is that religion and scriptural strictures have very little to do with Islamist and Christianist extremism, beyond providing a thin patina of rationale. Socio-political and historical factors play a significantly larger role. The problem with the stance people like Sam Harris, Ayyan Hirsi Ali, and other New Atheist-types take is not in calling for an Islamic "Reformation," but the manner in which they engage Muslims. One can't paint Muslims with a broad brush and say, "You need to stop Islamist terrorism from happening!", without being unfair to the vast majority of Muslims. A lot of Muslims are doing their damndest to fight groups like ISIS, and indeed, Muslims are the lion's share of Islamist extremists' victims. So telling them that there are fundamental problems with Islam is understandably pretty galling. There's no problem with the way they follow Islam - they don't hurt anybody in how they practice their beliefs. You may as well be asking them, "How long have you been beating your wife?"

[@NYsummertimeCHI]

+Steve Firstly, Seventh Day Adventists do, in fact, avoid eating shellfish. Secondly, it is largely for theological reasons that extend all the way back to the founders of Christianity that other fundamentalists don't follow those laws. Paul has long, impassioned speeches about why Gentiles are not beholden to certain Old Testament Laws, including dietary requirements and not, importantly, those regarding homosexuality. There are Gospel passages to the same effect. It is worth noting that orthodox Jews and the vast majority of Muslims do, in fact, abstain from eating shellfish and pork (however there are plenty of exceptions to both, which more or less proves my point because those exceptions are precisely the less fundamentalist, less devout in the group. For example in Turkey, a secular country, more than half the population drinks alcohol, which is forbidden in Islam. This, despite the fact that it is an overwhelmingly Muslim population). More importantly though, I do not argue that every fundamentalist follows every teaching of their holy books (or that holy books are the only things that matter). My only contention is that firstly, beliefs matter in determining action, and secondly that the teachings of the holy books (along with things such as how the founding figures of a religion behaved) matter when determining those beliefs. It is often said that those who do horrible things in the name of religion are somehow intrinsically "evil", and simply "interpret" their texts to justify a toxic message the same way an intrinsically "good" person "interprets" their texts to justify a message of love and peace. I doubt anyone can find any justification for this view of human nature as intrinsically good or evil in the psychological literature. Needless to say, I consider this view misguided. It is not an accident, in my view, that fundamentalist Christians oppose gay marriage, science education and reading Harry Potter. It is no accident that fundamentalist Jains wear face masks and carry broom sticks to sweep insects from their path. It is no accident that the most devout of Muslims do not eat pork, support the death penalty for apostates and cut off the hands of thieves. More importantly though, it is no accident that wherever these ethics are not shared by the religions, those ethics are not practiced in the real world by the followers of those religions. For example, Christians are not at all likely to be vegetarians like Jains, just like Buddhists are not at all more likely to oppose gay marriage or the teaching of evolution like Christians and Muslims. It is certainly not true that one's interpretation of scripture is purely dependent on the character of the person doing the interpreting or the socio-economic pressures they are subjected to. Interpretation of scripture is highly hereditary, and when it isn't the most influential factor is often a charismatic preacher. Now, to be clear, the Christian Bible/Jewish Tanakh is far more deplorable than the Qur'an, However, the Jewish and Christian communities have been bludgeoned so viciously by the hammer of secularism so as to make holding such strict literalist views a veritable embarrassment to the one who holds them. This is why the most literalist of literalist interpretations are not very popular, at least in the Western world, and most Jews are atheists. To your point on tactics, it's not about "paint[ing].. with a broad brush] and telling them they "need to stop Islamist terrorism from happening". It's about getting them to recognise the the roles these terrorists beliefs play in influencing their behaviour, and how those beliefs were shaped by the doctrines of Islam. It's about disabusing them of the notion that revelation is an accurate source of moral truths, so they can recognise how a belief in martyrdom and jihad can be dangerous. Telling a nice, progressive, liberal Catholic that her church is responsible for some of the most heinous crimes committed on humanity may be galling to her, but it is nevertheless true that there is a link between the belief in celibacy for priests, and the infallibility of the Pope, and an ongoing pedophilia scheme; the absolute commitment to natural law and the evils of denying contraceptives to disease ridden African communities and suppressing homosexuality; and beliefs about the existence of the soul and the opposition to abortion and stem cell research.

[@Staev]

"It is certainly not true that one's interpretation of scripture is purely dependent on the character of the person doing the interpreting or the socio-economic pressures they are subjected to. " No one said it was "purely" dependent - just largely, ie: to a degree where it's kind of ridiculous how much New Atheists and Islamophobes like you tend to ignore it as a factor. Most of the strictures that we find so onerous in Islam predate the religion in the Middle East. The same is true with Christianity; one need look no further than the Council of Jerusalem to see how quickly Christianity evolved to accommodate the cultural norms of non-Jews in its first generation of existence. No, humans bend and twist religions and ideologies to fit their goals, preferences, and objectives - not the other way around. The reality of the matter is, it doesn't matter what religion ISIS is, and it doesn't matter what Holy Book they claim inspires their actions. It's not really what inspires them, and you're extremely gullible if you believe them. Given the history of the region and the population's engagement with the West over the past hundred years or so, even if Islam never existed, we would still almost certainly be facing a very similar wave of anti-Western terrorism today. In reality, religion plays very little role in international and transnational affairs. It's a fig leaf.

[@michmiranda9405]

bruhhhh, how do they think it's ok to say shit like this??????????????? Here for your cool-headedness Sam Sedar!

[@wasdwasdedsf]

okay to say what, snowflake? anything wrong with what they say? how do you people Think its okay to defend an area where in 17 of the 23 countries where the question was asked, at least half of Muslims say sharia is the revealed word of God?????

[@nickmathiason2917]

mich miranda it’s literally based off of survey and polling data of Muslim Countries

[@afrolund80]

All hail the great prophet SAM HARRIS! He is above criticism. Challenging his stupidity, eh em, I mean intellect is HARRIS-Y!

[@mhdunknown]

+a.fro80y All his fans were probably radical Christians or Muslims in the past, a bunch of crazies nothing less, they agree with the guy on everything.

[@sumanadasawijayapala5372]

+Unknown And the irony is they think they're the Chosen People for embracing atheism.

[@tahulanyon3995]

What is your criticism, probably not a well reasoned one. Be nice to people who hold books as sacred, books that vilify huge sections of the population. Any reason why abortion is such a problem in America? any reason why a religious state has been terrorising the middle east? Oh is those books and people who can't understand philosophical reasoning. Here is a question for you, is torture ever the moral thing to do?

[@tahulanyon3995]

Your an idiot.

[@smhamza9705]

HOLY FUCKING Shit!! LMAO! 😂🤣 You are a legend, a.fro80y bro. 😂

[@byz88]

Fundamentalist Sam Harris fans are the worst. Sorry, I meant Sam Harris fans.

[@Truthseeker11158]

I love what you did there 😂😂

[@DarwinOrwell2]

I don't agree with Sam Harris on everything. But anyone who simply goes to Harris' blog/website and reads what he's actually written (in context) will clearly see that you guys continue to strawman him shamelessly. And you seem utterly incapable of understanding nuanced arguments. Which is ironic, considering how much you falsely accuse him of not knowing anything about Islam, a subject he's studied extensively for years. Yes, we get your argument about "policy consequences". And Harris already responded to that concern years ago here: www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2/

[@brendanfoti]

sunny copper Responds to comment about shameless straw-manning with shameless straw man...

[@goaliedude32]

+sunny cooper Sam doesn't want to bomb brown people. If you read his work for yourself you would understand that.

[@fatimatuzzahra4036]

lolololol he does not know shit about theology or philosophy. he is a wanna be daddy mediocre scientist.

[@jeremym3892]

This is a constant point made by Harris supporters. Many people have studied Islam for years and came up with different conclusions. Most people's issue with harris isn't his -isms but rather his whininess when confronted with people who simply don't agree. Like you, he loves making the point that his detractors 'don't understand" , are making straw men or are simply "acting in bad faith." He is often wrong and often biased but cannot recognize that he is biased as Ezra of Vox once pointed out and also as Noam Chompsky pointed out in the personal emails Harris published.

[@icemachine79]

+Jeremy Malcom That may have something to do with the fact that many of his detractors _are_ acting in bad faith by misrepresenting his positions. I guess as a lifelong progressive Democrat and atheist myself with an Iranian sister-in-law who lived through the 1979 revolution and watched her country flushed down the toilet by the mullahs, I have a hard time listening to people mount ANY defense for a deeply patriarchal and committedly-theocratic religion like Islam.

[@13multipurpose]

So Sam Seder majority fm doesn't care about his veiwers and doesn't care about facts.

[@drnekodr]

All the tip toeing around Islam is really getting tiring.

[@adeelabbasi2811]

but that is Sam entire career making more people understand Islam and Muslims better indirect consequences of his bigotry against Muslims and Islam

[@thejamaicaterror]

I like you Sam but it's very clear that it's not just fundamentalists who are against gay marriage. I don't know if you've ever actually read the bible but not following what god supposedly said and cherry picking isn't exactly good.

[@biggydx]

I've seen people in the comments say that a lot, but would you want people to follow the Bible to a fault? I wouldn't. I prefer my hair short. >_>

[@SteveGellerMusic]

I think it's great. The less of that book people believe, the better. I'm not sure there is a person alive who actually adheres to everything in the Bible. I'm not sure it's even possible, since so much of it is contradictory.

[@thejamaicaterror]

If people want to not follow everything in the bible and call themselves Christian well good for them but they aren't.

Sam Harris may be right about how dangerous fundamentalist islam is, but he also advocates racial profiling of muslims because of it. I'd take anything he has to say on the topic with a grain of salt as a result, and people should try examining these issues a bit more closely because of that... It's like how feminists strawman all opponents as being MRA despite the fact most opponents of the feminist movement are also opponents of MRA. I dislike fundamentalist islam but I'm not gonna be racist toward middle-eastern folk because of it, it's absurd and makes us ultimately no better than the people who we're supposed to be against...

[@nickmc1142]

He advocates profiling anyone who could be a Muslim (including himself) in order to be more efficient. I don't personally believe it's a good idea but his point was that they deliberately stop people they know are likely to be no threat in order to not be accused of profiling. Sam Seder consistently misrepresents this.

[@humanthefinite8304]

what? it's not their Christianity that make them homophobic? but, isn't that exactly why?

[@Mablak200]

Harris doesn't suggest there is one version of Islam, but that there are certain extremely harmful passages in the Quran that can only plausibly be interpreted in one way. Not to mention, many passages that have multiple interpretations have very harmful ones among them, and it would be intellectually dishonest to say that those interpretations are not part of Islam, when they're plausible. For example: "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand." (4:34) It's hardly questionable that this passage supports domestic abuse. And even if someone wants to abstract it, support for domestic abuse remains a plausible interpretation, and thus a belief that can be characterized as part of the doctrine of Islam (which need not be taken as a single, rigidly defined set of beliefs, but the set of plausible interpretations of the Quran and hadith).

[@Mablak200]

ufster81 18:29 actually states: "And say, 'The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.' Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place." This passage is not suggesting you have the freedom to make up your mind about the validity of passages in the Qur'an, it's suggesting you must believe, or you'll face eternal torture. This idea that people can simply pick and choose is not at all supported by the Qur'an; it is all assumed to be god's word, and therefore morally correct. A person can be considered a Muslim while ignoring some of these passages, but the fact remains that many of the most heinous interpretations are the most plausible ones (and no, we're not talking about just a few verses). Your suggestion is actually that we lie, and promote the idea that the most peaceful interpretations are the most plausible ones. And this may be worth following in some contexts; it could be argued that it was right for Obama to say ISIS is not Islamic, to encourage less insane beliefs, given his position. But as a long term strategy for most people to adopt, promoting this kind of cognitive dissonance among Muslims doesn't accomplish as much as simply arguing against the religion altogether.

[@MisterChris1978]

Fundamentalist Christianity is still Christianity. It's not a matter of difference. It's a matter of application.

[@rguil15]

"It's not their religion, it's their fundamentalism". Right, their "fundamentalism", also known as their strict adherence to....what is it?....oh yeah...THEIR RELIGION. What an idiotic cop out argument.

[@Wrath0fKhan]

*Islamic states frown on Islam-opposing paragraphs of UNHCR violence against women resolution (kuna, June 14, 2013):* "Islamic member states of the UNHCR rejected on Friday paragraphs violating the Islamic law in the council's resolution on the elimination of all forms of violence against women ... The rejections include the paragraph, which gives women "the right to control matters concerning their sexual lives as well as their reproductive health without coercion, discrimination or violence.""

[@LoadPast]

Starts right off with a fallacious appeal to popularity. Yup thats a Sam Harris fan all right

[@wasdwasdedsf]

videos that get better rating are on average better. the corrolation is fantastic. just like how iq tests and intelligence match up, and how blacks are less intelligent. any real argument?

[@Truthseeker11158]

​@@wasdwasdedsf 😂😂, I dare you to watch every single music video uploaded by T-Series that has at least a million views and over 10,000 likes. Tell me if those videos are 'better' just because they have more likes. Also, you are a true Sam Harris fan by conflating IQ with actual intelligence and making a blanket pejorative statement about Black people.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@Truthseeker11158 thats right, just one big coincidence that there hasnt been a single remotely succcessful country in the history of africa

[@QuadDrums]

Sam Seder stop being like this man please. Why are you so tolerant of religion? "Saying that the majority of people who dislike gay marriage is the same thing as them all being humans!" That doesn't mean the argument is invalid. Of course not all of them are homophobic DUE to the religious but what do you think gives them cover and justification for their beliefs? You don't have to be fundamentalist to dislike gay marriage. When was the last time you say a christian who gouged out their eyes because they looked at a woman with lust?

[@planetsaver1]

Sam, why don't you interview Sam Harris yourself. I have read all of his books/vids and you and Michael are not accurately representing him.

[@matthewd6306]

I find it astounding that many people on the left defend Islam, but have no problem bashing Christianity.

[@patsrule213]

+Matthew D That is an incorrect statement. Liberals no not defend the religion of Islam. Liberals defend the vast majority of Muslims who accept women, gays and homosexuals and demonize the small minority of Muslims who are homophobes. And they are demonizing Sam Harris because he lies and changes his views on Islam constantly. And to think that Sam Harris is immune from criticism is insane. And when people point out his earlier statements and quote them word for word, he says that people are misrepresenting his views. If your views are constantly being misunderstood, the problem is with the messenger Sam Harris, not the people quoting him word for word.

[@kraftpunk6654]

@@patsrule213 *"and demonize the small minority of Muslims who are homophobes."* Where? You're talking like 5-10 people at the most. Also, the "homophobic" muslims aren't a minority, maybe look up polls on homosexuality in the muslim world before spouting such an uninformed claim? The muslim population at large tend to hold more conservative views than Christians in general. *"Sam Harris because he lies and changes his views on Islam constantly."* I'm no fan of Sam Harris, but what exactly has he lied about Islam specifically?

[@patsrule213]

@@kraftpunk6654 All you have to do is KZbin “Dave Rubin baby” to find out that America doesn’t support gay marriage. Did you see Milo Yiannopolos response? That was awful and it confirmed my belief that Christian values are no different than what they believe Islam is. A lie told by Sam Harris was that he said that suicide bombers were part of Islam when Islam forbids all forms of suicide. I get my view of Muslims from actual Muslims, not from millionaires who want to manufacture consent.

[@kraftpunk6654]

​@@patsrule213 Your entire response is a red-herring and false equivalence, it does nothing to address my response to your earlier reply. What does Dave Rubin's conservative audience rejecting him for having children has anything to do with your argument that the left criticise Islam? *"to find out that America doesn’t support gay marriage."* Fallacious argument, you're extrapolating the views of Dave's audience to the entire country as a whole. 70% of the U.S still support gay marriage. *"That was awful and it confirmed my belief that Christian values are no different than what they believe Islam is."* That is awful indeed, but you clearly have not seen how muslims respond to homosexuality, they'll give the Westboro Baptist Church a run for their money. Also, the bulk of these guys are criticising Dave for having children via surrogacy, not the fact that Dave has a husband or just came out. These guys would've been rejecting Dave a long time ago if that were the case. So, you're not even comparing the same things. *"A lie told by Sam Harris was that he said that suicide bombers were part of Islam when Islam forbids all forms of suicide."* Islam forbids suicide, true. However, it is permissible in certain circumstances when the goal is martyrdom for the sake of God. Watch The Masked Arab's video on Suicide bombing in Islam, he's an ex-muslim who is extremely knowledgable in Islam. Extremists can find justification for suicide bombings as long as the deed benefits Islam. *"I get my view of Muslims from actual Muslims, not from millionaires who want to manufacture consent."* And who are these "actual" muslims you're referring to? Moderate muslims who white wash their faith in order to appease the West? You should be getting your view from "true" muslims like Muhammad and the first 3 generations of Muslims, they provide the best view of Islam than any muslim today. And once you do that, you'll find they're very similar to ISIS. Islam is defined by Allah and Muhammad alone, not the "muslims" you get your views from.

[@patsrule213]

@@kraftpunk6654 It's simple, it shows that the west believes in the same punishment that Islam does. How do we stop Islam? No one has told me a good solution, hopefully you have one that will actually work.

[@endtimessupportgroup5685]

“Yr straw manning Sam Harris” proceeds to straw man.

[@b.6.7.f.h.]

Polls have shown that US citizens are the most desensitized to casualties of war of any population in the world. What generalization are we supposed to draw from that? It certainly helps a democracy achieve political and economic ends with violence when the population is indifferent to casualties.

[@mirrezaultarique3437]

The caller describes himself as an Agnostic. Which makes me feel like he is not coming to this argument because he hates religion - an Atheist point of view. Sounds like a straight up Islamophobe. Just add the word "Fundamentalist" before the word "Muslim" and we all liberals would agree with you. No one would disagree. And yet he doesn't get it through his thick head. And point about "Policy Consequence" is spot on. Liberals should be very very careful. Otherwise our support will be taken over by the Right-wing Conservatives and drum up hysteria over the next war.

[@Red-rj7sr]

Mir Rezaul Tarique being an atheist doesn't mean you hate religion what

[@tayh1615]

You predicted the future.

[@slyjokerg]

30 seconds in.... already shaking my head at Seder's disgusting intellectual dishonesty. "Where's the straw man?".... Ummm... virtually every single thing you have said about Harris, his positions, and what he has put mildly, or intensely, explicitly focused on. That's the "Where's the straw man?" answer. What a deceitful piece of shit Seder is on this kind of crap. He is so envious and has such a complex at certain times and in certain ways. Grow up and be honest, for once.

[@911sausageman]

"among Muslims who believe sharia should be the law of the land ...." "Taking the life of those who abandon Islam is most widely supported in Egypt (86%) and Jordan (82%). Roughly two-thirds who want sharia to be the law of the land also back this penalty in the Palestinian territories (66%). In the other countries surveyed in the Middle East-North Africa region, fewer than half take this view." www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ That means about 64 percent of the entire Muslim population of Egypt believes apostates should be murdered! 64 percent! Why do you guys keep misrepresenting this number? 'oh it's just a few fundamentalist Muslims.. ' Give it up!

[@911sausageman]

64 percent of Egyptian Muslims think apostates should be murdered. Will you choose to pretend that's insignificant? That's the question that matters.

[@RoninDave]

have you been to egypt? Talked to any? Have you checked their laws?

[@911sausageman]

Ronin Dave I must do all these things before I can be concerned about these poll results? Next you'll say I have to live there for a few years and become a Muslim first. Then when I have my own harrowing story about leaving the faith you can tell me that that is only *my* experience and that's it's not indicative of all Muslims. 64 % is a number that should concern you.

[@RoninDave]

sausageman no it doesn't, you fear-mongering chicken little. For 1) 64% of Egyptians are allowed to answer a poll however they please as it won't affect you or I in the US; 2) given the conditions this poll was conducted under it's hardly conclusive of anything; and 3) if the government follows suit and passes laws that's when you criticize the government and pass sanctions. Right now your rant is the song of an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing because you're appallingly ignorant of the subject you are fumbling at to criticize.

[@911sausageman]

Ronin Dave Rant? My OP quoted the Pew poll and was merely to point out the correct figure that these guys can't seem to get right. And you call me ignorant? You should be correcting them too instead of attacking someone who is merely setting the facts straight. I made no other claims, did I? Yet, you feign to know my level of knowledge, my 'bad' intentions, and what's going on in my mind better than I do. Your post says more about you than me. Fearmongering? That's a laugh. I never said anything about the US (where I don't live and I'm not a citizen of, though thanks for assuming), that was YOU. Amazing how bringing up this Pew poll gets one labeled a 'fearmonger'.. it's just so unfair to convey what Muslims themselves reported! Apparently we should never criticize anything beyond our own borders and that doesn't effect us directly.. who gives a shit about the people it does effect and the fact they're being held hostage by this religion? You should write into the White House and suggest sanctions against Islamic State. You're reminding me of an isolationist Paultard- close your eyes and pretend the world doesn't exist and the problem goes away. And then to throw personal insults in there for no apparent reason? It stinks of the tactic of defamation. I wouldn't stick my neck out too far for Islam if I were you.. if you get my drift.

[@LibertyDownUnder]

The 2 main differences with modern Muslims are AS FOLLOWS: 1. In almost all Muslim countries the radicals are IN CONTROL. State mandated be-headings & public hangings are the norm, FGM is widespread, and apostasy IS punishable by death. 2. While the majority in ALL religions are becoming more tolerant, Muslims in the Arab world and throughout Europe & Australia are becoming MORE radicalized than their parents. Muslim fathers in Sydney are getting heartbreaking messages from their kids saying, "I've left to Syria and fight for ISIS". Sam Seder, you're totally off with this one and so is the caller. All of you need to get your shit together and make clearer points.

[@SilverMenace100]

I like Seder, but this is where he goes down the drain. A true secular progressive should have no problem bashing a religion which opposes gay rights and equality for women.

[@jezszeth2665]

From Wikipedia, "LGBT history in Iran" page: "Persia was conquered by the Arabs in A.D. 637, when Islam took over as the predominant faith. The Arabs were only superficially intolerant of homosexuality, and certainly the Koran specified no earthly punishment for homosexual behavior. Nevertheless, the devout Muslim was expected to know that God would be displeased. The outcome was a toleration and even celebration of pederasty in classical Islam, and much of the Arab poetry of this time is devoted to boys and their beauty. There is a significant amount of literature in Persian that explicitly illustrates the ancient existence of homosexuality among Iranians. As a result, over a period of time the people of Persia once again moderated or reversed their earlier position." Do you remember the Munich olimpics terrorist attack perpetrated by Palestinians? Did you know the perpetrators were Christians? We have a lot of misconceptions about Islam today, even Muslims do, unfortunately. And Sam Harris is an asshole. As a true philosopher he sounds like he knows what he is talking about but is actually quite full of shit.

[@Stormy5430]

Did you here the beginning? "FUNDAMENTALISM" it is in all religion including Muslim. They are also not all fundamentalists.

[@PlayerVid]

The need from a lot on the left to "bash" people for what they believe is one of the reasons our country has become to divisive. I see so many people who feel just because they're atheist, they're some how mentally superior to someone who isn't. Calling out specific problems with a religion is one thing, but a lot of people have taken to blanket painting people who subscribe to any region as being homophobic science rejecting low information traditionalist. Trump labeling illegal immigrants as rapist and criminals is just as bad labeling all Muslims as jihadist or even believe/supporting the jihadist mindset.

[@doc7000]

SilverMenace100 secularism isnt about bashing religion... if this is your approach or what you think it is about being secular then i dont know what to tell you. this is about us policy driving terrorism in oil producing states and the fact that the us can get away with it as long as they label it purely terrorism or fundamentalist muslims....

[@RaqeebKhan18]

Oh sod off, you stupid git!

[@NeyoBearGaming]

Here: "The only thing wrong with Islamic fundamentalism is the fundamentals of Islam." It's not that hard guys. It's a battle of ideas, and Islamic ideas -- not people -- have to lose that battle. And you're worried about policy consequence? Sam Harris is a liberal, so I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. Black and white fallacy, slippery slope fallacy, and strawmen everywhere. Try Pakman for at least an honest discussion on these topics.

[@johnbixbybixbyking5007]

Take a shot every time he says "Sam Harris"

[@SadisticSenpai61]

A better analogy at 10:15 would be "he's calling a shovel a spade" - yes, a spade is a type of shovel. However, most shovels aren't spades.

[@Yesiamblind]

I really dislike the sycophants that Sam employs.

[@michaelmarini94]

Sam Seder? I know.

[@domroc5776]

The caller was correct

[@CM-jb7fs]

Thank you. Sam really doesn’t understand religion.

[@sealogic4552]

Sam... As much as I love this show, you CANNOT keep strawmanning people. Just because they hold philosophical positions you find harsh does NOT mean they support torture and racial profiling. Sam Harris is fully supportive of moderate Muslims all over the world, and hopes to bring reason to people who have been deceived, not occupying and slaughtering in nations with different religions. Also, I simply found this hard to watch after you asserted that Christianity isn't homophobic because there are non-homophobic Christians. That's like saying Christianity doesn't promote charity because not all Christians are philanthropists. There's scriptural basis for both homophobia and charity, and many Christians are motivated to do one or the other or even both by their faith. If you need further evidence, here's some excellent polling data from the Pew Research Center: www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-same-sex-marriage/ Note how all Abrahamic faiths (with the exception of Judaism, which has been a fairly Democratic base in America (www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/)) are all disproportionately against gay marriage, as compared to Buddhists and the irreligious. Just some info for consideration. Still a big fan of the show!

[@Wizznilliam]

How can the caller agree with every point they are making and then just say "agree to disagree" at the end?

[@Niamhieweevey]

Sam Harris isn't pro-torture, he put forward an argument saying that torturing an individual for information would be preferable to carpet bombing a country. Completely uncontroversial. He talks of racial profiling because the idea of martyrdom is really only prevalent (as in, it is believed by its followers) in Islam. He doesn't think that searching an eighty-year old woman for weapons is the optimum usage of airport security's time. In regards to the occupation, "I don’t think Israel should exist as a Jewish state" (Sam Harris "Why I don't criticize Isreal"). Uncontroversial. The rest of the article is controversial but not in the way you are proclaiming. He has also never explicity stated that economic conditions, education or foreign policy are factors. He has however stated that, of the seventeen 9/11 bombers, all were college educated and many had pHds. Sam has never once said that all Muslims are immoral. He says that there are is a sizable percentage of Muslims (not just jihadists) who take certain pernicious tenets of their faith seriously e.g. apostasy, martyrdom, views on women and homosexuals. These are dangerous to modern civilisation, and his opinion that they're the largest threat to civilisation at the minute is one that can be defended. I advise anyone interested in intellectual honesty to read "On the mechanics of defamation" and "sleepwalking into Armageddon".

[@gunnarg58]

Niamh .O'Gorman false dichotomy. Which Harris knows he is using.

[@goaliedude32]

Which part is a false dichotomy?

[@icemachine79]

+sinbad77 _Riiight..._ because doing nothing always results in a better outcome. You anti-interventionists are nothing but moral cowards hiding behind your weak and completely unhelpful "war is bad, m'kay" non-arguments.

[@icemachine79]

+Fatima Zahra Oh, there's plenty of mental illness, drugs, prostitution, alcoholism, and STDs in Islamic countries. They simply refuse to acknowledge that the problems exist. Also, if you _really_ want to talk about massive numbers of Iraqi civilian casualties, why not mention the *millions* who were killed by the Ba'athist regime during their decades-long authoritarian rule of the country?

[@divasbraidz]

You don’t understand Christianity but you are very critical of it

[@documentthedrama8279]

damn son, Seder was savage

[@kylestyyle987]

Matt’s point - that the Pew polling regarding opinions on apostacy, etc. only sampled Muslims who believed in Sharia law in the first place - is an important caveat, which I’ve never heard Harris include

[@hansfrankfurter2903]

I think even if you control for that you get a number around 67% . Maher got it wrong bu inflating it to 87% which is the number who want sharia rules. But regardless the problem with these polls is their very low sample size and their massive fluctuation between the year the poll is taken. There is also the issue of fear of giving the “wrong answer “ in a deeply conservative country. Alot of ppl might be scared of retaliation and I know this as a fact from living in the ME myself. But of course Harris would say aha this just proves how backward the culture of Islam is..etc but that is kind of a deflection because in any totalitarian society that normalizes conservativism you will get an inflated number of ppl pretending to believe certain things. The % could be very inflated. A final issue with polls is how the question is asked. If you just say “do you agree apostates should be killed? “ might be a very different response from “if non muslims can convert to islam in non muslim countries , should Muslims have the same right to leave their religion? “ would probably get a different answer , when you highlight the moral contrast. From experience i do feel alot of Muslims just regurgitate automatically what they were taught without much thinking. And that’s not to say they don’t believe it, but sometimes a simple thoughtful provocation can get them to reconsider. As an ex Muslim I don’t agree with the way Harris portrays the issues in the Muslim world, but there definitely are huge massive problems which unfortunately aren’t talked about by the western left, and so get cynically hyperobolized and used as propaganda by the right. There is a kind of grain of truth to some of what he says, but he mixed truth with lies and half truths , and isn’t motivated by the right intentions.

[@toddydarkko]

sam harris is a mental heavy weight when it comes to this issue.

[@busylivingnotdying]

Maher and Harris was right in describing a problem with fundamentalism, but there is so much to the story NOT told in the picture they paint: 1. The Pan-Arabian Movement was a popular SECULAR initiative from the beginning of the 20th century aimed at establishing Social Democracy and transforming Arabian nations into wealthy, Western-style democracies with welfare systems. The United States opposed it, perceiving it as too similar to communism and feared a third power-block that would challenge their hegemony, and instead backed RELIGIOUS monarchies and dictatorships, shaping its policy in Saudi Arabia and Egypt for example. The Ba'ath parties, championed the Pan-Arabian policy in the Arabian countries. The United States was a staunch enemy of those parties and their policies and continues TO THIS DAY to oppose these parties in Syria and Iraq, while supporting radical religious groups under the belief that they are more manageable. Conclusion: It is an oversimplification for Harris to attribute the Arabs' devout religiosity solely to their holy book without considering this complex backdrop. 2. The ruling religious militants in Arabian nations, backed by Western support, have maintained a tight control over their populace through the use of Western-supplied weaponry. Consequently, when reporters seek the views of the average person, it's uncertain whether they would offer their opinions openly and honestly. 3. It is often perceived that impoverished individuals are more devoutly religious than their affluent counterparts, turning to faith in the absence of technological aid. However, recent trends indicate a rise in secularization among this demographic as technology becomes more accessible, offering practical solutions to challenges previously attributed to divine intervention.. 4. If one wishes to counter the Western support for Israeli colonialism in Palestine, mere civility have shown to not be enough. This issue tends toward radicalization. However, it does not address how this population might act if their national interests and dignity were respected by the West and Israel.

[@osmaer3999]

The caller was reasonable enough, he came aggressive in the beginning though.

[@biggydx]

I think the government in which you inhabit also plays a role in how certain social norms are established. While it's probable that fundamentalist Christians here in America are holding up Gay Marriage legalization on a national level, you look at a country like Ireland that's got pretty solid numbers in favor of allowing gays to marry (~75%). Keep in mind, this is a country that's 80% Roman Catholic. There is something to be said that religion can be used as a medium for subverting the rights of others, but I also think there are other factors in play as well.

[@JPrescottQ]

I love the MR and have been going through the backlog, but when it comes to their opinions on Harris views its pretty cringe worthy. "Its not their Christianity that makes them homophobic, its their fundamentalism" That is either dishonest or incredibly stupid. Of course it's their Christianity that has influenced their bigotry, it just happens to be a form of Christianity that the MR doesn't particularity like. MR report hides behind the fact that there are now more Christians that support gay rights than not. So am I to assume that if I rolled the clock back 100 years, and the vast majority of Christians thought that even engaging in homosexual acts was a jail worthy offence, that position would be their fundamentalism too? What the MR doesn't even realize is that it is THEIR position that is bigoted one. They point to the group of Christians that they like and say they are the TRUE Christians and point to others and proclaim that their bigotry is caused by something else because their self proclaimed "true Christians" don't act that way. Well sorry MR, you do not get to claim who is or is not a True Anything. As a side note, how do you think it is that most Christians have come to believe in gay rights (its not a vast majority btw) It isn't because there was reform within Americas churches, it was secular pressure from the outside that has been the driving force for reform. I would challenge you to find any significant number of churches that advocate for gay marriage. Most churches still preach against it; its just that the people in the pews have been convinced by an outside argument.

[@pauljojo1318]

If you call religious people fundamentalists, because they hold homophobic tendencies ("Not Christianity causes that - fundamentalistic Christianity does"), than you called about half of the Muslims in Western societies fundamentalists.

[@timagee147]

The conflation, the obscurantism, and the sheer ignorance of and/or willful misrepresentation of Harris's arguments - even by the caller - is astounding.

[@raoulpdoff4221]

The vast majority of Muslims who wouldn't commit violence but have intense, vibrant, and violent rage towards the west are right to have those feelings. They are also right to not act on those feelings. They experience all this within a culture of varying degrees of fundamentalism. If you don't bring that up in a conversation about Islam and the west, you are missing a crucial point.

[@999across]

It's not a difficult concept to grasp. If & when you make sweeping generalizations about people you're a bigot or at the very least bordering on bigotry. Furthermore, when you conflate all Muslims w/ fundamentalists or terrorists you're insulting the many Muslims who fought & died for this country. And, as an atheist who has read & not always agreed w/ Sam Harris, it's troubling to see other atheists ignore logic for sake of their hatred.

[@MrSolex]

Oh this caller fucked up when he brought up the youtube likes. Polls don't matter, online.

[@vengxance]

Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris are miles above this guy 😂

[@duskydon]

Please! Not all Christian fundamentalists are homophobic. I know of religious people who are not fundamentalists but are homophobic . Some Religious people are racist, homophobic, sexist, and or elitist. Some fundamentalists are tolerant and do have an open mind about race, homosexuality, class differences, and even religious expression.

[@CCStmac]

Why do so many people dislike this video?

[@CCStmac]

***** when i clicked on it it was one like 9 dislikes...... So there may be one or two haters who clicked on and have multiple accounts... b/c as I found out the other day trolls have multiple accounts.... I see it's evened out a bit

[@AntonSlavik111]

Because they are fake liberals and now that Sam does not agree 100% with them & someone they like they turn into republicans & say some toxic shit.

[@sudafedup]

***** This. It's not the ciriticism of religion that I have a problem with it (I criticize my own), it's the broad strokes over Muslims and the ignorance of the entire socio-economic issues of the middle east (and elsewhere) by simply claiming that it's "insert religion here's" fault to begin with. It's the same gross oversimplification that fundamentalists themselves do. It empowers them to say "hey, this is what they think of us, lets push back."

[@kathykelly5930]

iwebber88 The fact that they are muslims contributes to their socio-economic situation more so than if they abandoned a lot of their horrible views and practices. If they aren't following that shit, then they aren't really muslims in the first place.

[@verstwo2]

***** wow. You have a hard on of hate for these guys eh?

[@kathykelly5930]

Fundamentalist muslim or Christian or w/e, is another way of saying an actual Muslim or Christian. Thats great that there are ppl who call themselves muslim, and don't believe in that horse shit, but then they aren't really muslims. Muslim isn't a race or nationality that is just stuck with you. It is some one by definition who follows the teachings of the Qu'ran. So being a good muslim, means being a pretty shitty person. The point is that there are more ppl in this religion willing to act the shit out than other major religions. What is so hard to understand?

[@rockos414]

Regressive.

[@ricksantos1580]

+Jeremy Ablang Yup Regressive Left! They have fucked up the west and pushing their filth and "feelings" all over the world!

[@endtimessupportgroup5685]

Correct. Sam Harris is very regressive.

[@kathykelly5930]

Michael brings up polls about Malaysia, a country where 86% of muslims believe Sharia law should be the law of the land. Not a good example of some moderate muslim country.

[@Constantstate]

Sam... Please have Sam Harris on and let him talk, so your crew can stop straw manning, and oversimplifying him. You guys agree on every point, but somehow you are just not hearing what he is saying, and you ARE hearing things he is not saying.

[@beeeefcurtains]

SLRok The straw man is what you just said "that european fascist and christian fundamentalist are the only people with a sane view of the threat that muslims pose." Harris nor Maher have ever sided with the Christian Right and have said before that conservatives are right for the wrong reasons when it comes to Islam (meaning they don't have a sane view). The other straw man is that somehow the argument that Islam has terrible ideas necessarily leads to discriminatory policy against Muslims.

[@beeeefcurtains]

Did you you read the last part? To say that he sides with or praises the Right is a straw man. He only said that (and he's said it before) they're right for the wrong reasons. I'll quote Harris:"The whole purpose of that essay (written in 2006) was to express my concern that the political correctness of the Left has made it taboo to even notice the menace of political Islam, leaving only right-wing fanatics to do the job. Such fanatics are, as I thought I made clear, the wrong people to do this, being nearly as bad as jihadists themselves. I was not praising fascists: I was arguing that liberal confusion and cowardice was empowering them." This should have been clear from the article you're quoting from, but somehow you're connecting Harris with the far Right. The whole thing about prophecy being as troubling as the ideology of our enemy should have made this clear and any straw man very difficult to make (that is, for a rational person).

[@justinbeagley5151]

SLRok "whose infatuation with biblical prophecy is nearly as troubling as the ideology of our enemies' Nearly? umm... no actually most christians aren't going around cutting people's heads off, raping infidel women, etc. Nearly? lol... you're NEARLY smart about this conversation.

[@Dahlen4Dummies]

Justin Beagley listen to AIPAC or any political Zionist. Deep in their bullshit you can see their evil.

[@fatimatuzzahra4036]

racist mediocre scientist and wanna be dadddy sam harris who has no grasp over theology, arabic, history or even philosophy.

[@evlmpyr]

It's not hating the gays, it's following scripture.

[@NightfallGemini]

What's intriguing is the caller pulls argumentum ad numerum/populum the same way the Gamergate kids did on Binder's interview. Same chickenshit tactic for the same kind of chickenshit beliefs.

[@chebob2009]

Sam, I'm 99% sure you've mis-spoken about that Pew Poll. Go and check it, it was as a percentage of the population. Might be worth adding a correction if you care about the facts?

[@burcoman990]

this video has more likes than dislikes so MR won.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

on their own page this is a horrific ratio, are you truely clinging onto that it has more likes thjan dislieks?

[@TheJagjr4450]

The ambassador to Tripoli told the US envoy in 1785 that even though the United States was not a Christian nation and had no part in the crusades they were not Musselmen and this made them infidels which their Quran stated were to be subjugated and enslaved wherever they are found. After paying a tribute (amounting to tens of millions of dollars) until 1805 Jefferson assembled a navy and Marine force to destroy the Tripoli state sponsored Musselmen Corsair raiders.

[@911sausageman]

Brooks: "..lines from the Koran taken out of context." hahahahahhaha

[@papersplease]

The Air Show this is you on the phone line in the vid?

[@jnayvann]

The funniest part is there’s a huge chunk of Americans who think that the Middle East has the most Muslims...it’s actually Indonesia.

[@stirthepot8892]

polling Muslim's in one particular region is not justification for blanket statements

[@hk78901]

Also taking a western angle on the results without any social-historical and cultural context is incredibly naive.

[@thesprawl2361]

This guy has a point, sorry. The shit that Bill Maher and Sam Harris get thrown at them for saying perfectly reasonable things, things that are staring us in the face, is ridiculous. I loathe conservatism and the pointless cruelty that it brings with it, and Islam is a fiercely conservative religion. If liberals had owned this conversation years ago, by criticising Islam as a conservative, right-wing ideology and standing up for the hideous mistreatment of _all kinds of minorities,_ then the right simply would not have been able to profit from our silence on this issue. And that's why Seder is reluctant to talk about this stuff: because the right latch onto this stuff at the slightest opportunity. But they do so because we liberals have been silent on the social conservatism of Islam for far, far too long. And now the conservatives have claimed that ground for themselves(in the most dishonest, bad faith, hypocritical way possible of course, but they have claimed it nevertheless).

[@ElectricQualia]

The Sprawl you have a bit of a point but i don’t think Maher and Harris are honest educated good faith critics of islam.

[@wesleygeubermann5088]

Sam Seder > Sam Harris

[@mhdunknown]

+ferrozm Typical Sam Harris fanboy right there, everyone.

[@nickca6104]

Sam Harris asleep is intellectualy Superior to Sam Seder awake.

[@Wrath0fKhan]

You can say "exactly" the same about the Nazis, communists, or medieval Mongols. Look! There are differences! Look! Not all are like that! Look! And so on... This is truly a dishonest, even futile approach...

[@No1ANTAGON1ST]

Worst arguments ever made by Seder... I'm usually a fan

[@bubbakank3484]

Exactly. Fundamentalist muslims and modern muslims are completely different, stop treating them like they are bigots XD

[@burgercide]

Seder and Brooks are right on.

[@jorditrulla2753]

Sam is actually very right about Islam.

[@IMatchoNation]

So true, Sam completely dressed this Harris acolyte down!

[@ishaangovardhan9090]

​@@IMatchoNation The fundamentalist distinction is meaningless because Sam Harris has only ever hated Islam as an ideology, he has never hated Muslims as a people. Let's look at the ideology itself - the kuran is explicitly homophobic, violent, irrational, and misogynistic. A Fundie Muslim is MORE of a muslim than non-fundie muslims. THe more of the Kuran you follow, the more Muslim you are. Same applies to Christianity and the Bible. So while non-fundie muslims (they're the minority btw) are NOT homophobic, they have had to ignore parts of the Islam ideology in order to become more decent humans who support gay rights. They have had to turn their back to many many parts of their own holy book to which they ascribe special meaning. "A pro-gay muslim/christian" is an oxymoron of a phrase. "A non-fundie muslim/christian" is an oxymoron of a phrase. The Fundies take their religion to its logical conclusion and that's why i'm thankful for their existence - they are the canaries in the coal mine in terms of warning the rest of us of the dangers of religion. Non-fundie muslims/non-fundie Christians are MASSIVELY self-delusional hypocrites at best, and at worst they are either fundie-enablers or people who make the fundies look better than they really are, because BOTH fundies and non-fundies call themselves "Muslim", despite their vast differences. This label of "muslim" applies EQUALLY to the horrible fundies and the less horrible non-fundies. So by lumping themselves in with the fundies, the non-fundies are doing society a grave disservice. And if anyone has the right to call themselves "Muslim" - it's the fundies, NOT the nonfundies lol

[@valhala56]

Booooo, Unsubscribed.

[@Cruizinelli12]

Did the caller say fundamentalist Muslims in Egypt think “apostrophes” should be killed?????

[@valentinrafael9201]

Oh wow. The Quoran out of context. You mean, the idea that a god can tell people to commit murder, and call it divine justice, is something that’s out of context? That’s not out of context. That’s a belief system. As long as god exists, murder is never wrong.

[@12ut5]

5:30 ish Where did the sidekick get the information that the Pew poll in Egypt only asked Egyptians who agree that Sharia should be the law of the land, or, is he just expressing his opinion in order to minimize a fact Maher and Harris based some of what they were saying on. I see it as the latter, besides, unless I'm wrong one of Pew questions was also do you think Sharia should be the law of the land and, I think, the vast majority of Egyptians said yes. If so, then who does the sidekick think Pew should have been polling? The minority of Egyptians who don't think Sharia should be the law of the land? 10:30 ish Just one eg. of the many straw men in the discussion.

[@nickmc1142]

Christianity doesn't make Christians homophobic it's their fundamentalism? You talk about fundamentalism as if it's a separate religion. There are plenty of examples of people picking and choosing in religion. Just because some people choose to ignore a part of the Bible, it doesn't mean that people who follow it aren't following the bible.

[@FredSlocombe]

I didn't know religious people had the latitude to "cherry-pick" from their religious doctrines. Where in there religious doctrines does it state they have permission to be anything other than fundamentalist?

[@mymathmind]

Michael Brooks rocking it

[@RiotKurhein]

The issues with Religious Fundamentalism are the fundamentals of the religion. Dropping the qualifier of "fundamentalist" is that those christians are tolerant in spite of their religion not because of their religion.

[@chillybilly1452]

Christ was tolerant of everyone, except the money changers.

[@issaciams]

Wait who is the third voice on this video? Sam Seder is on screen and then their is the guy on the radio but who is the other guy talking a lot in this video? Their were other voices but predominantly 3 voices.

[@Nekulturny]

Matt Binder is the young sounding guy. He used to be the producer. And Michael brooks is the deep voice guy. Hes still on MR.

[@issaciams]

@@Nekulturny oh ok thanks.

[@Nekulturny]

@@issaciams No problem, yes, it is awkward. In these older videos they didn't seem to have as many cameras in their studio. If you watch newer videos theres usually a split screen when one of the off camera people are talking showing them. Now they have 3 different producers (Matt Lech - Jamie Peck and Brandon something, hes usually pretty quiet, Matt and Jaime talk quite a lot) and Michael Brooks like I said is still there.

[@aliciadishman]

I do not understand the callers basis for this conversation. He called them to argue against Bill Maher and Sam Harris because why? Did he call to get an agreement from them as opposed to an argument he had with Maher and Harris? I do not get the convo.

[@Sagefrakrobatik]

Isnt it about time we retire this discussion of islam and human rights until next year?

[@TheFerg714]

God, you guys still don't get it. Sam Harris is criticizing IDEAS not individuals.

[@PincheVegan]

i want to see stats on christians against gay marriage vs. americans in total against gay marriage

[@CM-jb7fs]

What is Sam talking about? Absolutely there are more homophobe Christians than not and absolutely Islam is worse. The “holier than thou” shtick is ridiculous.

[@marcadams440]

Is there a connection between religiosity and homophobia?

[@justinbeagley5151]

BloodMoneyLLC I'm sorry - i've been going about this all wrong. Let's simplify this argument. What SPECIFICALLY did Bill Maher and Sam Harris say that would qualify them as bigots?