Calling the River when hand makes no sense

[@matteframe]

I really like these hand breakdowns. It's so much better than seeing all hole cards.

[@accessdeniedx2]

I've seen this play also and my belief is that these players are usually scared to play very large pots because they aren't good postflop. I'm aggressive and I've ran into players with these types of hands and I will bet at them on the river and they will call with the best hand while thinking they are losing. Ex: The board has 3 spades and I bet with top pair and they have an overpair that they played passively yet they call saying.... Your flush is good and I lose to hand that I didnt range them on because they limped.

[@rawkustime]

It's amazing how many times of seen people limp exactly QQ. It seems to be a really popular limp at small/micro online stakes

[@MgtowRubicon]

"The objective is NOT to win pots; it's to make good decisions." -- Mike Caro

[@RossCourtright]

Maybe I'm bad, but it made a little sense... Trying to be sneaky, then bet your overpair, yes the turn is still dumb but he decides to draw, and he hits. Tanking on the turn raise and calling just looks a little like drawing to some sort of straight. Now that I write that, KQ makes more sense than QQ for that scenario.

[@calfan8838]

The problem is that the villain’s play makes no sense from a thinking person’s perspective. But at the lower stakes I feel that you run into this kind of play all too often. I usually only splash around at lower stakes when waiting for 5/10 tables to open, but I see a lot of players players limp call with big pairs pre-flop and then they get wed to them as the hand progresses. In this case, the villain didn’t give any thought to his raise amount to $75 on the flop - he probably heard that 3x is the proper raise size and figured he’d do it because he had the better hand. He similarly probably didn’t bother to properly think through where he stood with QQ after being raised on the turn. While I wouldn’t have arrived in the situation where the hero found himself on the river, I’d be pretty confident that the villain somehow arrived with a queen or a set. I think I can lay down two pair in that situation without losing sleep over it.

[@slugerama]

I put him on qq. He called a raise pre flop and re raised the flop with an over pair. Tanked the turn raise with a gutshot. Jammed the river. That was the hand That made the most sense despite the initial limp pre.

[@bkb04g]

I think on this board (terrible runout btw) when villain shoves into you on river, I personally think it’s a pretty easy fold. The only thing making this difficult are the pot odds and how small of a jam it really is. You can have so many different Queens that his two pairs or sets are just going to check/call check/fold river. Like I said, unless you have a ton of history, it’s a crying fold.

[@jack42011]

and the history, but yeah. IMHO he should have pushed all in on the turn

[@CanadianLoveKnot]

As soon as the King came on the river, I thought it was a terrible card, and Villain is going to shove.

[@DescartesRenegade]

Funny thing is, I immediately thought "looks like a poorly played QQ". When I first began playing lower stakes, I saw this type of shit all the time. Even now, in my homes games of .5/1, this shit happens pretty often. I normally play 3/5 or 5/10, but when I play lower stakes, I have to adjust my way of thinking.

[@iammark301]

I was thinking the likely hands of villain were AT, Ak, or QQ. (AT being least likely) ( this dismissed preflop, but description fits limps) By river I was convinced QQ. See this player often at 1/2, 1/3.

[@qlow5956]

My thoughts too. But Bart disagreed.

[@Gos1234567]

Turn raise is bad against a normal player but against this kind of fish it’s pretty good

[@tylermokarry9731]

He's closing the action pre with all that dead money out there lol i still wouldnt't put QQ in his range if his cards were face up; and especially going for the limp in the CO, going for l/rr is only effective from EP if you are going to go for it ; I just think we have to accept these landmines in the lower stakes until you move up and people stop doing this

[@adamhammond9985]

This isn’t a landmine. It’s an ATM

[@kevincloonan9787]

Hero makes the huge mistake by being bluffed by the villian in previous hands and getting tilted by not being able to beat him in hands. So instead of tightening up and playing good solid poker, in which will print $$ vs these players.....Hero then ends up making the bigger mistakes than the villian and plays the turn horrible and makes a bad call on the river.

[@pot_kivach160]

What’s horrible on turn?

[@kevincloonan9787]

@@pot_kivach160 raising the turn is a bad play cuz your folding out all his bluffs and all worse hands. He said villian was a splashy player that already bluffed him so just call and let him keep bluffing. AJ is not that good of a hand on that board to bloat the pot

[@blakefredrickson6506]

@@kevincloonan9787 But that’s not what happened. Villain literally did call with a worse hand. QQ is worse than AJ on a JT4A board. QQ only has 6 outs… 13% equity to hit the straight or set, and the set wouldn’t even be the nuts cuz Hero could easily have AA or a K. So really he only has 4 outs, or 9% equity, and he got lucky and hit it. Hero read Villain just fine on the turn.

[@edb7742]

I disagree with Bart's assertion that the Villain can't have a Q unless it's specifically KQ. I think many players will limp pre-flop with AQ and KQ, and both of those hands seem consistent with the betting pattern. I put the Villain on one of those two hands. QQ also makes sense because a lot of players at 1-2 will not re-raise pre-flop with QQ when it has been raised to $25.

[@georgewbushcenterforintell147]

QJ and Q10 are very limpy hands

[@williamr4053]

They don’t raise because with that many callers, you may not feel comfortable risking a big enough preflop raise to try and isolate or get everyone to fold to steal the blinds. Then there’s the whole QQ are K and A magnets. I’ve cracked KK plenty with QQ just flatting. If I know how V plays and I can put them on QQ+, why should I raise with QQ myself? Flat and hope to out flop them.

[@joshrahimi203]

I love how Bart Hanson says the word eight. He says it so funny. He says it the funniest in the live at the bike hand when Gal called Arts bluff for 88,000.

[@FuzzypupPoker]

JT and 44 are probably his hands. Maybe J4s or T4s. River sure looks like a bluff. He could also have AJ too. I'd lean on calling. There are enough of hands in his range it justifies the call. Unless you know he isn't limp calling JTo. I don't mind raising the turn to get some value. saw the end... Pocked QQs?!?! Really? Well we both got out dumbed.

[@pot_kivach160]

Fuzzy Pup //...16:02...I would probably call this at the end...16:06....it does not make whole lot of sense for him to have a Q in here; 16:24 ..he showed pocket QQ!! ...really? He limped with pocket QQ?.! How dare he!??

[@FuzzypupPoker]

@@pot_kivach160 Dude players do dumb ass things like this all the time. I can't tell you how many times some player limped behind a limper with AA and just called in my raised multiway pot and I value owned myself with an overpair or TPTK. I do notice this kind of play is becoming more common in cardrooms and even online but not as high frequency. I don't know how to counter act the guy who limp calls AA in a 4 way pot and nails me. On occasion I do get them.

[@ryanbahnsen6429]

Calls a raise on the turn with queens and hits the 6 outer. Sick stuff.

[@sneakerworldromania32]

Am i the only one who felt like a genius because I guessed QQ? Only hand that makes sense. Not being superficially. Just thinking deep. 25NL reg.

[@pot_kivach160]

SneakerWorld Romania// I am so proud of you.

[@timb4248]

Calling 225 on turn with QQ makes sense? lol

[@CanadianLoveKnot]

I thought for sure he had Qx, just didn't consider QQ. interesting hand.

[@dominiklacko5128]

QK

[@SuperProvoc]

Spoilers bro, f spoilers...

[@matteframe]

@@SuperProvoc I made the same mistake and looked at the comments.

[@yioti1234]

“He’s famous for limping these big pairs” do you know why he’s famous? Because people make a lot of $ from him when he’s at the table 😂

[@brilliantbeaches5389]

Limping big pairs in a live setting can be extremely profitable. Theres nothing wrong with limping if you have a reason to limp. Often when you raise UTG action live goes call call call. Good luck with your overpair playing OOP vs 3 opponents. If you limp, most of the time someone will raise and the action goes back to you. I've made a looot of money limping big pairs in live settings.

[@dan22482]

@@brilliantbeaches5389 Main issue is it’s hard to balance so it turns your hand face up. What bluffs are you limp/re-raising with? Probably doesn’t matter in a low stakes game where people aren’t paying attention but it won’t work nearly as well vs thinking players.

[@brilliantbeaches5389]

@@dan22482 It's not hard to balance. 50% 33-55 and 50% kings and aces. You can often profitably call with small pockets since it's often 3ways, and you can ofc 4bet with kings and aces. It's an absolutely legit strategy and it works very well if you put some practice in it.

[@brilliantbeaches5389]

@@dan22482 I only bluff against opponents who figured out I'm limping kings and aces, so i use some bluffs with smaller pockets.

[@dan22482]

@@brilliantbeaches5389 you’re limp/3 betting 33-55?

[@johnw3034]

QQ does make sense here besides the initial limp. Small raise on the flop with an overpair. Scared of the Ace, so he puts out a blocker bet to try and buy a cheap showdown, then reluctantly calls the turn raise. Shove river.

[@pot_kivach160]

Even initial limp makes sense regarding loose table, where 7x open raise “does not scare anybody”. So V can easily rely on someone else to raise PF for him. That’s exactly what happened!

[@johnw3034]

@@pot_kivach160 I don't see any benefit to limping with the hope of someone else raising for you. Just raise your own hand, lol.

[@pot_kivach160]

/ deception?

[@johnw3034]

@@pot_kivach160 sometimes that works well, but it backfires a lot too.

[@connman8d617]

Well, if the guy is now becoming "famous" for limping premium hands then you have to adjust your understanding of his range. So now you have to put AA/KK/QQ in his range, maybe AK/AQ too. Now sure, he probably shouldn't call a raise in the turn with QQ or KK, but if he somehow made a bullshit flop raise with AK/AQ he likely calls turn. And, of course, he calls with AA. So now you have to account for a bunch more hands that you "accidentally" lose to. The turn raise from hero is just horrendous here and it really screws up the dynamic of the hand. This is such a great spot to just call down 3 streets and either bluff catch or let villain value own himself. We are in position, so we can always value bet river if he checks...or we can jam if we boat up.

[@timmyp34]

Why wouldn't villain bet the flop with Q9? I seem to recall Brad Owen betting open enders on the flop, is that a never do that idea?

[@mroien]

I would love this hero at my table. Typical 1/2 player

[@rez2576]

I actually think villain has more queens then bart says. Don't get me wrong villain is a huge donkey, but he's bet on the turn seems more like a blocker bet then a value bet. it's like he wants to get to showdown quickly. Queens is shocking given pre flop action but I can imagine many bad players having queen jack. King queen makes sense as well which will trap turn on some frequency. Villain shouldn't have many queens but on the other hand one liners are super under bluffed even if people should bluff them more. Interesting hand though

[@pot_kivach160]

It was a fold on turn. (Or jamming it there, IF you READ him weak?? I did not). In any case, fold the river is the answer. Otherwise, you’re gambling.

[@timb4248]

Fold top 2 vs bluffy villain? I'm jamming it in his face. You beat JT 89 QQ and KK i guess.

[@oscarmartinez3650]

it is Texas, so 25$ is loooow open. pennies

[@mightypensword]

I do think Q9 makes a lot of sense. A fishy player can block bet turn to not have to call a bigger bet, in order to see the river for cheaper. They want to set the price for the river card. Then they call the raise because they can't give up a draw. I guess the flop raise doesn't really fit with this, though..

[@Gos1234567]

Yea thats the only hand with a Q that makes any sense,QQ is ridiculous though 😂

[@founik]

The whole hand is pretty f**ked up to be honest. However I would put him on KQ/AQ, not QQ probably, but yeah. Sh*t happens. Let’s say he made some random shit on flop and raised for whatever reason. Than he called check raise on the turn. So it could mean that A improved him. Or and I think this is the common thought process of these low stakes players. “Oh, cool I hit the ace (while having AQ) and now I “improved” into gut shot!” “I am calling the raise anytime!” And than he just happened to luckily get there, so he shoved.

[@Gos1234567]

Go back thru Barts videos where V bets river or raises river and hero calls with a bluff catcher or mediocre hand,V loses the vast majority. But the call is justified with the logic of “V can’t have xx cos he would raise pre with that” “ can’t have xx cos he wouldn’t have done this on flop or turn with it” People coming up with reasons why V can’t have a better hand by using their own poker strategy but most of the time V just has that wacky hand you never thought he could have. So there would be a lot less bad beats if people would stop calling when it’s pretty obvious they are beat

[@shadowsmessage]

gerry o sullivan I hate hero calls too, once called with QQ on the river in a 1-3 game on a A95K6 board, I 3-b with QQ, initial raiser folded & BB called for 35. He checks flop, I c-bet to 50 as there were 2 ♦️♦️ on the flop & I had the Q of ♦️, K on turn he checks & I check behind thinking he atleast has KJ♦️♦️ or KQ♦️♦️, on the river he bets 50 into a pot of 185, i tanked & tanked & couldn’t figure out what he had & thinking that he would never have AX as he checked the flop, not AK since he would jam on turn, I thought it should be some small pocket pair like 1010 or could be JJ as many people limp with JJ in 1-3 I made the call & he had AKs. I was shocked & told him you would have made a lot of money if you 4-b me pre-flop & checked they flop. He of course is OMC & tells me “AK is not AA & why will I bet with top-top? I was inducing you to bet by checking. You called with QQ??” . That day I’ve realized all this blockers shit, not raising pre-flop with premium hands is fucking bull-shit. Especially in lower stakes where people limp with AKs a lot & fold when they don’t hit an A or K on a flop & fold AQ to a 3-b, I stopped making hero calls & betting with middle pairs, whenever I 3-barrel with middle pairs, I will see a jam on river & eventually fold as V check-check-jam on river & show middle set of top-2. Low stakes like 1-3 or 2-5 aren’t same as these high stakes where people play the same hands the same way, 3-b jam with AK, making hero calls with AJ & lose to a set, Calling with 99 on a J high board. The villain always has a hand & then realized there is nothing wrong in flatting with AK to a 3-b & fold it on a monotone flop like 3♦️♦️♦️ & me not with a ♦️ or 789 flop & I have AK etc. trapping is one of the great strategies in poker & it’s fun

[@Gos1234567]

@@shadowsmessage There is a lot of so called "Standard poker wisdom" out there that makes no sense at all,Flatting AK,AA,KK pre is great especially if you are in early position and great in tournaments.Barts "check calling the river is the worst play in poker" has me baffled as well,I see top pros do this all the time,why donk out into the guy thats been showing aggression?Unless im misunderstanding what he means. As for river bets i have countless times checked back flop/turn with 2nd pair and called a river bet to be shown a better hand more often than not,people bluff flops and turns a lot but on the river a bet means top pair or better 90% of the time no matter how much weakness youve shown or what value you block or bluffs you unblock(blocker stuff is being way overdone i think), If you change your mindset from "he must be bluffing cos he cant have xx" to "he probably has what he is representing" youll do a lot better,especially in tourneys and small stakes cash at least

[@windy619]

I’d fight the villain outside 😂

[@mikemck4796]

There are more kq’s out there than 10-j’s.

[@andrewadami3920]

That's always the case when a straight comes in. Not exaclty a profound statement. Nevertheless, your point is noted.

[@spenceringermanson8428]

What town? San Angelo?

[@Ritcheese]

river is quite an obvious fold. population in low stakes games never bluff on these rivers unless there is history. watching this video i already guess villain had only QQ as the only way he would play it is raise flop block bet turn if river was a brick he would check and call any bet

[@royalflush8173]

It goes to show people can have any hand as phil ivey days you have to live in the moment

[@kevintanner7772]

I fucking called that Queen on the flop.

[@kitbillion7783]

What a terrible villain lol

[@kitbillion7783]

Why would villain not just c f turn lol

[@CanadianLoveKnot]

@@kitbillion7783 He has a gutshot...lol

[@royalflush8173]

Hero bet too small on flop I would of bet 125 on flop and if called shove the rest on turn

[@dominiklacko5128]

why wouldnt he has QK from start?

[@christopherhorn4744]

AQ?

[@cyruslever586]

Thats 2 pair or kq all day

[@jasonpeltzer1907]

where do we get the emulator?

[@mikewood6955]

I use Bluestacks. It's a Google Android Emulator for the PC.

[@buildyourcomputer]

Turn raise is pretty bad. Made it so your had no choice on river to call.

[@timb4248]

How can it be bad against villain who can't fold 2nd pair with gutter for half his buyin?

[@kaberle71]

@@timb4248 why not shove and get it all in while good then if you're that committed to betting and leaving yourself short on the river.

[@bossbear7187]

i just lost my stack because the river jam didnt make sense unless he was holding a 63. Guess what he had.

[@Azar1571]

I don't understand why straddling the button is an advantage fullring

[@DLHarv]

Last action? It’s worth $2 imo

[@Azar1571]

@@DLHarv 4$, it's a staddle. Bart is wrong

[@DLHarv]

@@Azar1571 sorry 2 more than $2 blind is what I meant. The bigger the the field the better it is for a button straddle. For $4 it creates what poker is all about. Doesn’t matter if there is a pile of limps or massive raises. Your $4 ensures you are swinging the hammer. $4 is worth it every round imo.

[@Azar1571]

@@DLHarv i have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean, it's good for the game if everyone is straddling?

[@DLHarv]

@@Azar1571 it’s good for the game but more so for yourself in my opinion.

[@kevintanner7772]

They’re called implied odds for a reason.

[@andrewadami3920]

The implied odds are 13:1. So that would be the difference between the $250 raise (by Hero) - $75 invested (by villian) = $175. $175 x 13 is $2275. So there would have to be $2275 in the pot and behind in the Hero's stack just to break even. All in all, if he's calling to hit a K, it's a bad play. But it's 1/2, so good plays should not be expected.

[@gregorykelly8000]

When my stack is below 50bb of strattle, I talk my short stack out of strattle safely. Poor man's game??

[@willowandluka5302]

I don’t care what anyone says. I will never straddle because it is -ev. So folks can straddle all they want, I’ll take a look at my cards and play as UTG, thank you very much.

[@Azar1571]

@@willowandluka5302 because you don't play in home games

[@dominiklacko5128]

wgat doent make sense is a heros play

[@JeffMartin84]

Really expected it to be AQ.

[@edb7742]

@Jeff Martin - I was thinking the exact same thing. Many players will not raise AQ pre-flop when there are other players already in and won't re-raise when it is raised to $25, as happened here. The rest of the hand seems perfectly consistent with the Villain having AQ.

[@Aggrollama]

Dont think he will raise flop with AQ though

[@Aggrollama]

KQ will more be a likely check raise on flop

[@JeffMartin84]

@@Aggrollama Here's the problem. People are using logic to deduce what the villain has. Limp calling a raise with QQ then check raising the flop means using typical poker logic is useless. He can obviously do this with a wide variety of hands from 1010+ to KQ QJ Q10 etc. People do dumb shit that makes zero sense all the time at the table.

[@Fishcakes1]

Bart, you totally mis called this hand ....of course he could have QQ

[@solarsystem1605]

Our Hero sucks at poker and thinks it's the villain that is bad at poker. At least six mistakes in this hand alone. I wonder how many mistakes he makes in the game ? You don't have to be the best player in the world or even the best player at your table in a low limit 1/2 live games. You'll only have to be better than two or three players at your table. Our hero table section is horrible, he's playing at a table where he's the fish and doesn't even know it. I've noticed this a lot at the 1/2 live, 1/3 and 2/5 500cap. The fish always over thinks the spot and blames the villain for his losses. Take responsibility for your bad plays and stop blaming the unpredictable villain. The Hero on this call will never be able to see what he did wrong. You can't ask why the villain does what he does in these low limits games. You'll have to just out last them with solid hands and a solid bankroll. This sound like a great table, I would sit at this table with max buy and 10 reloads to cover the variance.

[@fomori2]

I mean, did the caller really need Bart to tell him that his opponent is terrible.

[@kevincloonan9787]

The opponent played the hand better than Hero LOL

[@Doc8776]

This guy calling in is a cop.. you can just tell

[@jmaessoan1]

I've played with these types. a few Indian guys (dot) who the caller in this video pretty much describes to a T. what's up Reddy and Ravi!

[@johnross4958]

You're both laughing at the villain but the villain has destroyed the hero in multiple hands... he's just better

[@Optable]

What I got from this- limp premiums and nobody will ever believe you

[@goalgoalgoal669]

I called qq does this make me as bad as him lol

[@peacemaker6662]

Me too. I thought about pocket Q's when he tanked the turn.

[@goalgoalgoal669]

@Piotr Dembowy because I'm not as stoic as you losing players

[@goalgoalgoal669]

@Piotr Dembowy he's not gonna shove the third nuts

[@goalgoalgoal669]

@Piotr Dembowy my thought process is malleable when playing against these players. Be less linear when playing the streets and you'll be less of a prick in the comment section 😄

[@goalgoalgoal669]

@Piotr Dembowy I put him on qq on the river and save 300 bucks

[@desean3402]

Welcome to Texas 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@primeministerofthemilkyway6837]

Do you prefer online tournaments or cash games and why?

[@xiaoqiaobaba]

I met people limp call As on the button. Lol. So the Qs. I guess it right. Trap pre. And check raise flop cuz had overpairs feels like never gonna lose with that. Lol. One day he crush into Ts and Js which would play the same way. Open and C bets 1/3. And he gonna cry. Lol. Low stake normal situation. Guess it just happened everywhere. Not only a around me. lol

[@WokeSteve]

Ha,I lost with AA in a 3 bet pot yesterday,villain had 2 3 off.You can't put your logic onto a mad clont.

[@RodgerRamjet]

wow.. limp with QQ ?? i really was thinking more like he had AK.. and now had top 2 on the rivr, with HIS thinking being he had a gutter/2 overs, saw the A turn, wasnt sure if he was ahead of many A's other than AQ, as AJ, A10, both had him beat. his rvr play, i really thought he had AK.. not QQ... didnt matter overall.. just shows idiotic play can be successful.. or, as Barry Greenstein said in a million dollar pot with tom dwan " sometimes the math is idiotic", when he beat Dwans ppr As on a J high flop, by turning a 10, making 2 pr with J 10 to win a million in a cash pot.

[@davidsteinke1]

Fishy fishy haha

[@jimpalmer4392]

pocket qq

[@mataspacevicius8254]

He had to look down to check if he’s wearing pants! And who asks a question like that??

[@kevintanner7772]

You were behind the whole time. You’re not a hero.

[@Horatiotheman]

He was ahead on the turn.

[@aldennovic4312]

The most overrated game in terms of skill!

[@kevinconnelly2486]

Most annoying dudes in live poker: “Why don’t you straddle?” guy. “Did I get you dealer?” guy. Calling out nitty play when there’s a whale on the table guy.