Can Armoured Hoplites without Phalanx Beat Early Legionary Cohort in OG Rome: Total War?

[@TheKOB2010]

10:52 Standard bearers were chosen for a reason.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Indeed :) Thanks for the comment.

[@DFuxa]

I was a bit worried when I read "without phalanx" in the title. Now I'm surprised.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Yea, they did quite well :) Thanks for the comment.

[@Thongger]

I knew my armoured boys wouldnt disappoint. tough as nails they are.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.

[@07jaworski07]

I thought they gonna fight in phalanx hah that did skew my previous comment a bit Good to see that 5 sword attack still counts for something up to early legionary cohort at least

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed :)

[@Xander77Ru]

Damn. That's one tough level 3 unit. Edit - wait, they only got one more win with phalanax on that without? That can't be right.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Imo it is due to that they engaged with Guard mode ON. The results improved quite a bit for Sacred Band with GM OFF :)

[@sarmatiancougar7556]

Very interesting test indeed! Could you please also test how Armored Hoplites and Pharaohs Guards are going to perform without the Guard mode? I reckon their score is going to improve dramatically. More so than other phalanx units you have retested.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Both are on To-Do list but the Armoured Hoplites at least must wait a bit so that they don't fight the Romans too often. But also that one is coming ;) Thanks for the comment.

[@Warmaker01]

Beating Early Legionary Cohort is actually real interesting. I know everyone loves and prefers Legionary Cohort but the Early version is still a really fine infantry unit. The PIla really did a lot of damage though. Legionary Cohort's Pila inflicted so much casualties that it put the Armoured Hoplites into a terrible, hard to recover situation right at the start.

[@janehrahan5116]

minus pila the stats of armored hoplites and legionaires are near identical. Legions are very slightly better in terms of defense vs ranged (+1 armor vs +1 defense skill), and they have better morale, but its insanely close. Legions are about average for large city units, armored hoplites are the single best minor city unit (in infantry anyway)

[@07jaworski07]

@@Warmaker01 true in my last julii campaign this was my unit of choice (I expanded into gaul and Spain you see so had to grow the settlements using peasants) thus early legionnaires were like the best choice for training in minor cities which I had a lot of at the time. They were a bit squishy and required often retraining but I completed long campaign with these. Only regret was sending like 6 units of these against carthage war elephants these things gave zero concern about my legions they died so fast but that was like 1 battle so otherwise with some care these units can get the job done also I trained light auxilia and archer auxilia for missile support but for that one battle I didn't use them. Also that was the same campaign I spammed shrine of ceres lol. So - availability and utility.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed. The advantage was not quite enough :)

[@rorschach1985ify]

Honestly the most shocking thing was how they only got one more win with Phalanx on then without. Also surprised at how well Principes held out, looking back at the Phalanx version they even did better than Early Legionary Cohort which makes no sense but it happened. Even if the unit fights well without Phalanx its issue is that it cannot kill fast enough due to its low sword attack and with the Greeks Cavalry support being non-existent it would only open them up to flanking. They can only really kill shit fast enough to matter with Phalanx so the Greeks do not really have any more flexible melee infantry to supplement their very tough but rigid and inflexible roster.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Well put :) Thanks for the comment.

[@Warmaker01]

That's what the Spartan Hoplites are for. But they are still infantry and not the same level of flexibility as good cavalry for easier Hammer & Anvil tactics. But there's also the issue that you need Tier 4 Barracks for Spartans. It's going to take a while to get them on campaign.

[@rorschach1985ify]

@@Warmaker01 The biggest issue with Spartans is that they are only recruitable in two settlements.

[@aulus3792]

I thought you said that they are terrbile using swords lol

[@rorschach1985ify]

@aulus3792 Because they are, 5 attack means they take forever to kill anyone with defense higher than basic Hastati, which leads to them taking heavy casualties without Phalanx. P.S. Still waiting on you naming your account since you chickened out last time.

[@joshithegreat5303]

When out of phalanx, do they use the alt-attack? Or the normal one?

[@janehrahan5116]

sword is alt attack.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Here, I used alt-attack but I think the performance without phalanx would be the same with left-click as well :)

[@annunakim525]

would you like to do the same thing for RTR imperium Surrectum?

[@qualityoldgames7721]

I tried last spring for one month and it almost killed the channel :( So, at least for now - no. Perhaps we could have some single tests. Do you have some specific battle in mind you would like to see? :) Thanks for the comment.

[@annunakim525]

@@qualityoldgames7721 yea it lacks traction and interest from the people... it a good mod though, i understand where youre coming from

[@clontroper5]

I wonder how a Armored hopilite would do vs the Armored piercing shock troops, such as Chosen axeman or somthing. Have you tested that?

[@ЭдуардЯляев]

Если без фаланги то без шансов из легко вынесут, аналогично и наоборот если они будут в фаланге

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. I guess that would be interesting to test :)

[@leadjunkie5674]

I love this game, but I've always been annoyed by the absurdly slow pila throw time. Like, the whole point of the tactic was to disrupt charges or shield walls, but in game, it's practically impossible to get a volley off on a charging enemy before they make contact.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed. Usually the best tactics seems to be stand still and wait for the enemy to come to one :)

[@jmk3723]

Love the armored hoplites, just sucks I prefer to play Macedon for pikemen rather than hoplites

[@aamil93]

If only they had a macedonian cavalry or nile cavalry level heavy cav they'd be much fun, not so powerful to smash hammer & anvil like macedonians but good enough for making fun cavalry battles, dealing only with greek cav is such a pain

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Yea, they are great, and the Rebel variant has really nice Macedonian colors :)

[@ЭдуардЯляев]

Очень странный бой с принципами , хотя там разница с гастатами 10-12% эффективности а затанчили почти как леги , а ранние леги сильнее принципов с 2 лычками или 3 чтобы им уступить

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. A good notion :)

[@clontroper5]

Such a tanky unity😮

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Indeed :) Thanks for the comment.

[@rkeykey]

Phalanx pikeman will die to hastati pepega

[@qualityoldgames7721]

I guess that has to be tested at some point :) Thanks for the comment.

[@deoni]

Stop clicking on speedup for battles. I don't watch these battles and hitting dislike on video.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the feedback. It seems people have different preferences. Others want things sped up and other don't. I need to ponder the approach :)

[@deoni]

@@qualityoldgames7721 got it

[@janehrahan5116]

Ahem, to re-iterate from last video, this is what an OP unit in tier looks like rome simps. Rome's roster isn't op for tier generally speaking. The only op unit in their late game roster is the one 1-2 tiers above any other infantry.

[@ТотсамыйАдольф]

Вот только тяжёлые гоплиты это вершина эволюции пехоты у греков(забудем про спартанцев,которые строятся в 2 городах из всей карты),так что выглядит довольно балансно - у Рима пехота равного тира слабее,но самих тиров больше,плюс армия гибче

[@janehrahan5116]

@@ТотсамыйАдольф I actually agree with this (presuming the translation of this is correct), rome is an absolute powerhouse late game in the campaign, rome has all but 1 buildings, and the best late game doomstacks overall (though their best cav struggling against the genuine top cav keeps them in line), they are also the best in no rules skirmish for this exact reason. But late game is less important than early game. Early game conquers half the map before late game unit buildings can be built.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Yea, perhaps Rome's main strength is the whole. It is not particularly weak in any area and relatively strong in all, including most definitely buildings. :)