Can I Exploit Automatic Pumps for INFINITE POWER in Timberborn?

[@ImKibitz]

Man I love this update, if ONLY there was some way to measure the speed of water in the game though... lel.

[@alexb5766]

I thought you showed it the new pole that looks like the depth tower. A speed tower?

[@roosterdoodster9220]

@@alexb5766 he was being sarcastic

[@blu4r414]

Build a waterfall down back into the hole to increase the flow (and the put waterwheels into the waterfall(

[@jethroblinman3031]

hi i found it is good to have the water flowing back in to one of the pumps pit where you will only need the top pumps pumping and the rest of the pit fill with water this way you can have all the pumps pumping water in to the river you will need water to keep suppling the pit tho as over time water will go

[@viktorsmaliuk4937]

My idea - Wheels are going slow, as consumption < demand. No?

[@dawidd-g6744]

Kibz! Did you forget about Lady Gravity? Let the water pick up speed through a waterfall and build the water wheels lower. Also try making turns not an instant 90 deg, it should help with keeping the momentum of the water.

[@brendanmassaro9595]

Actually the water wheels only work once there is more than ~.1 depth. Therefore in a tiered wheel setup the advantage of having the super fast speeds is lost when it all slips under the wheels. The better setup to maximize the speed multiplier would be to have a 1x1 channel filled with the smaller wheels snaking back and forth with a floodgate set at half at the very end, pouring back into the buffer tank aka "The Pit". The floodgate would prevent efficiency losses at lower pump rates so that water is not slipping under when not enough volume is being sent through.

[@Necrotechian]

​@@brendanmassaro9595 on a side note dropping some of those flow measuring sticks could give some estimates on how fast the stuff is moving in the channels to explore the viability before sticking it full of wheels and also it could measure if the addition of more pumps is usefull or redundant

[@drkrassepimper2458]

I dont think that this game has momentum in turns

[@SpaceCadetLtd]

@@brendanmassaro9595 But what if @ImKibitz starts the system off by having the pump filling a small pool higher than the wheels and blocked off by dams or flood gates. Then the water would be water-falling to the wheels which would give it more speed from the start. In theory

[@kelaEQ2]

@@drkrassepimper2458 it does, but loses a TON, that is why that Small water wheel at the beginning of the video did not work

[@MrMaradok]

Maybe if you space the wheels out and put them in descending tiers, there’ll be enough space that the water isn’t slowed down to much, and the lower elevations would replace some of the lost speed.

[@hapyness]

That's a genius idea

[@diegocaris7019]

Thought the same thing!!

[@bluewhalestudioblenderanim1132]

after some time this will dry up if there's not some water flowing into the system aswell so technicly it's not a infinite power generator . . but it still might be a decent source of power for a realy large city

[@luclin92]

@@bluewhalestudioblenderanim1132 even if it goes down to the bottom of the well again?

[@bluewhalestudioblenderanim1132]

@@luclin92 I think yes . . altho a 6 block deep reserve would take a realy long time to dry up more than enough time for a dry season or two

[@Milenos]

I love how he ignore the X/cms for the power generation when trying to calculate in advance.

[@Flamytygwa]

This bothered me for the entire video =P

[@striderpup1169]

@@Flamytygwa Yeah, same

[@GeneralFire]

ya its like duh if you gave the tiny little one a tsunami worth of flow rate than it'll out perform the big boi with a trickle

[@stalinpepe6765]

When I Seen That I Heard "THE NUMBERS MASON!!" In The Distance XDD

[@RatelRegalement]

'that's the average' , he says.. *head desk*

[@danyael777]

26:05 - I think you have an open platform under the second staircase from top, left of the waterpumps. You loose flowrate there. Also, i'd try and make a declining canal at half the length. Like one block deeper past the third waterwheel.

[@Hydrangea.]

You did a mistake, when you made the power wheel canal 1 block wide, you missed the first tile (under the stair 26:02) that has the platform which leaks the water. Make it a leeve and you will get your infinite power :D

[@leonmuller8475]

true!

[@बेबीपेंगुइन]

Yeah under the district gate

[@ImKibitz]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[@Eral_]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH

[@elweewutroone]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[@danielmccarthy9556]

You probably don't need the lower two rows of pumps, just let the pit fill up and you'll save 4200hp

[@randomperson4198]

I thought someone not gonna say it

[@100000Andy]

he doesnt need pumps at all if he just lets the pit fill up entirely, I really dont get how he didnt realize

[@Dumber0]

ye, cant believe he didnt think of that

[@adammurdoch1708]

but if during a drought water level fell would stop and thats bad Mkay

[@MDP1702]

@@100000Andy Then what is the point? He'd just create a large deep lake that does the same as the rest of the canals he's diverting the water from. The only way he could then use it is maybe as a very large waterstorage for droughts. And you'd still need pumps to get the water out of it during droughts then.

[@SovakaKindred]

Couple suggestions; 1. Drop the wheels down a level so that the pumped up water has some gravity assist to move it forward. 2. Spread the wheels slightly so there is a gap between them for flow calculations.

[@nonchip]

3. keep it 1 wide for faster flow rate 4. maybe don't pump the water up kilometers because that would only help if the fall back down would have an effect on the wheels. but in fact a single block of height difference in the pumps would do the same.

[@AleXxTM123]

5. going from 2 wide to 1 wide speeds up the flow ;) or having only a one wide outlet on your 2 wide canal drops the flow

[@BotherRed]

Put them at a lower elevation then the pumps. You're pulling water up and giving it massive potential energy but then sucking that all out by simply having it flowing in a straight line and not giving it a chance to flow as fast as it could.

[@thomasscrap1627]

1st, u should make a proper optimised setup with only one pump high, second, use that height to make the water flow faster because when you have the pump over your mouse, you see that it produce 180hp/cms, which means 180 horse power per centimeter per second, and not a random average. MAKE YOUR WATER FLOW FASTER ! avoid bending, or water flow changes directions like the wheel on top of the montain next to the flood gates for the holy hole, the water wheel is in a different direction unlike the 3 up above, and it produce less because of it orientation which is not that efficient because the water flows diagonally.

[@canteatpi]

i think cms stands for cubic meter per seconds

[@thomasscrap1627]

@@canteatpi yeah seams more logical

[@krisnr99]

On the lagre waterwheels, it says it can produce 180hp per cm/s of waterflow, it says so “180hp/cms”

[@perigrimpi2599]

Finally somebody who looks at the units. The only question left is if cm/s stands for cubic meter per second or centimetres per seconds

[@Soleya9]

@@perigrimpi2599 Likely cubic meters per second, a common measurement for flow rate, since it's volumetric. Centimeters per second would be a linear measurement.

[@StrokeMahEgo]

@@perigrimpi2599 probably m³, since I reckon one block (like a levee) is 1m³

[@realityveil6151]

Waterwheel: 180hp/cms. Thisd means 180hp per cm per second. For each 1 cps the river is flowing, you get 180hp. Basic shit. Kibz: This waterwheel says 180hp and I'm SURE that you can get more based on how fast it's going.

[@randombloke82]

It says right in the tool tip: _x_ hp per cm/s - it’s based on the water speed. That’s why the water gauge tells you the speed now too.

[@brianp6859]

Im quite impressed how much improvement they've made to this game already. Also they gave the new water wheels, does the brown faction still get the regular water wheels? I think i might have to get this game, the demo was fun.

[@Goremize]

@@brianp6859 Yes, the Folktales still have the normal water wheels, but also they still have Large Windmills already - which give infinite free power all year. Now all we need is batteries for both races haha. Not sure if that's possible with this kind of power generation tough ;D

[@Roy-K]

Since the power is dependent on the flow rate, you’ll need to maximize that; maybe turning the river around to face the Pit first, then putting water wheels on a down grade as the river flows back into it would work best

[@MartysRandomStuff]

I had to try thins and finally got perpetual power working. Had to create a custom map, most of it at only one level tall, then a set of steps 2 blocks wide going up to max height (16). 9 pumps pumping water up to the top and then on the 15 steps there are rows of about a dozen small wheels, the water zig zags down the steps. Also some large wheels on the return path down at ground level. Water doesn't flow consistently so not all wheels run at the same time but enough do for excess power. Managed to get 12000 HP with 6000 used for the pumps. Posted a screenshot to steam with caption "perpetual power". Best with ironteeth, with folktails you need more pumps and wider channels on the steps, so you only get a few thousand excess HP.

[@denverharford121]

Maybe it's not flowing well because you have a 1 wide exit for the water to go and it of to the side so it hits the wall and slows down?

[@acedeath2699]

I just realized, you should be able to use the highrise houses to bring power up, because they should also let power trough, like all the other buildings.

[@brianp6859]

Man, someone needs to try this, that would be super cool

[@gaetan5161]

I was thinking the same

[@arminb3939]

Exactly, this is the most efficient way of vertical power transportation

[@CubeBizz]

brilliant

[@musizlover2008]

Another issue is that the water loses current speed when it passes through a water wheel. Using multiple wheels on the same canal will slow the water down to a crawl.

[@DaysofKnight]

Game nees a few additions to make what you do less tedious. Drill: A building that takes up a 1x1 area. The drill will only drill down to the blocks you tell it to below the tile the building is sitting on. Mega-TNT: Used in conjunction with the Drill. Once the drill has finished, it would be demolished and you can drop a "Mega-TNT" down the drilled hole in the tile. Once it hits the bottom the tile can be clicked on and a "Tile Detonate" option should be presented. Once it detonates, the furthest most drilled block and all the ones above it on that same tile are all destroyed. Vertical Power Bar: Like the horizontal ones but Vertical so you can move power up and down better, instead of having to make a staircase of 90° gear power transfer pieces.

[@danluna8840]

They put some thought into the water mechanics on this one! It speeds up at bends, slows down with obstacles like the water wheel,and slows down as you go into a wider body of water. It will probably speed up going from a wide to narrow river and at elevation changes. Hell, right at the water fall would be a great place to put a water wheel. Just like a permanently open dam.

[@thestylemage2092]

But like what did you expect? The game gave you a thing to measure water speed, the wheels say they produce x per water speed. Not to mention your little river is completely even.

[@TheMuteStreamer]

Hi Kibz, just wanted to say I love the vids, and hope you have a splentastic day!

[@auroch7343]

I think the problem is how quickly the water is able to flow so in theory if the flow rate never slows down it'll make infinite power. Decending tiers or wider exits for the water might work.

[@Hiro_Trevelyan]

But water wheels now slow down water getting through (which is logical). So you really need tiers.

[@CajunCrustacean]

What I do for big blasting projects like that is to keep the staircase along the side. That way the beavers can build from the top and you don't have to do it a single column at a time.

[@chrrlees]

Make the weal lower or the water higher, so the water move faster, water pump out slow, you have to make a Momentum

[@leosavard1810]

Hey Kibs :) just thought that since these wheels can be built from a single anchor point on the side you could have a few wheels to the side of each level of pump and have a waterfall power the wheels. They don't need to be on the bottom so they could conceivably be powered from water flowing over top of them or in the back, like old flour mills :)

[@luthiascrowe]

The water doesn't seem so simple as to pump it strait into a wheel and profit. I would get rid of the wheels first so you can see the water flow, maybe even pump it into an initial reservoir before sending it down a river. The water in the video had visual differences where it was flowing or not. In Lake Sippy when you changed the wheels, the water had flowing and dead areas that made it clear where wheels would have most effect. Put more thought into flow design, and maybe play with layers for gravity? I have no idea if that makes a difference, but worth testing. Become Lord Of The Sippy Drink!

[@applezauce980]

To fix the water wheel issue to keep water wheels spinning, you simply need to direct the water immediately before the wheels flow directly onto the wheels. If you do the four wide two deep channel, you simply need to place the following on the tile directly before each wheel. Make the bottom row levees, then on the top row make the center two dams and the two outside can either be left open or a walkway. The reason for this is you want the water to be directed to the top corner blocks to spin the wheels, but not enough water can go through those two areas to prevent water from backing up, so the dam blocks allow any remaining water to flow. I did this setup repeating for 20 sets of wheels, and had full power from all sets.

[@Eanruig]

Hey Kibz, nice episode. Can you build the waterwheels stepwise? The first, where the water comes in, the highest and than down to increase the flowing speed?

[@SmartLifeEnthusiast]

Where you put the compact water wheels, loads of water is escaping via the platforms. May want to put some levies or dams instead to force more water through the water wheels instead

[@rishoh]

I remember hearing that the water wheels will slow down the water as it passes below them, with this new update it's possible that they made it so the different wheels have different minimum starting speeds. If that's the case then it's almost guaranteed that the large wheels have too high a minimum for the pumps to drive. So maybe try switching to the compact wheels instead, since if they have a lower minimum they might actually run. Also you may want to consider splitting the initial water source the pumps into several rows of wheels instead of a single repeating line to minimize the slowdown of the water. Take what I said with a grain of salt though because I have not played this new update yet. ̶A̶l̶s̶o̶,̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶u̶g̶g̶e̶s̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶a̶q̶u̶e̶d̶u̶c̶t̶:̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶t̶f̶o̶r̶m̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶l̶e̶v̶e̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶e̶v̶e̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶o̶p̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶a̶q̶u̶e̶d̶u̶c̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶b̶l̶o̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶i̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶l̶o̶w̶?̶ I now know why this wouldn't work. example: ⬛ = Levee ⬜ = Platform ⬛🟦⬛ ⬛⬛⬛ ⬜⬜⬜

[@leonmuller8475]

Yes, I thought the same. Would also have been more like a real life aqueduct as well.

[@Physis_88]

You cannot build levees on a platform , unless devs did change that.

[@rishoh]

@@Physis_88 I did not know this... hope the modders can change that.

[@justthinkingthoughts]

Advice on the pumps, it is half a block worth of flowing water per pump (similar to the source blocks), so a 2 blocks wide canal with a dam will not overflow with 4 pumps ... for the waterwheels i went net positive after the 16th wheel with a less than optimal setup .. just make sure you never overburden your system, with 18 wheels it is fully stable so only take 170HP per every additional wheel out of the system to not overload it ... man i wish there was a one way power transmission so one could fire up the pumps using engines without powering the whole consumers on the same network

[@Kenken2244]

waterwheels now reduce the speed of water flowing through it, so you can end up losing power by putting too many water wheels that it can't flow anymore

[@demris15]

I think part of your problem might be the exit to each row needs to be at the end, not the side… the game physics might be viewing that as a loss in the flow rate and since you are making such tight turns back and forth, you are losing out.

[@DarkPegasus87]

SUGGESTION: Put the big wheels in the aquaduct and down the slope where it pours into the hole. Water speed is key to power generation. The aquaduct looks big enough for a row of big wheels, and the falling water has to be worth something. Why wouldn't it be? You could just build pumps next to the waterfall to pump water up and back into the aquaduct. That's an infinite loop, right? If you don't mind the work, set up multiple aquaducts to build wheels in...OR make a tower above Lake Sippy or the pit to pump water up...and back down in a waterfall flowing down however many wheels you want. There would be no need to fill up anything. So long as it's flowing, the wheels should be working. As long as you're generating more power than you're using, it's a success.

[@XtomJamesExtra]

You need step downs and you need a wide area after the pumps which then narrows into the spill way. Build a wide capture area after the top pump, with a narrow outlet to the first three wheels, then a step down to the next three, then a step down and turn for the next three, another step down to the next three, and then a turn and step down to the next three, etc. Do this until you reach the minimal depth you want before creating an outflow into the pit. In this way you'll only need three pumps.

[@creativemindsmusic7507]

here's an idea ImKibitz with that water wheel setup see how you got it do that again but without the water wheels going back straight to the pit so that way you can recycle the water as you test at the same time so that way the pit can keep some water in it as you go.

[@sinistertwister8661]

Two suggestions for your water wheel loop of infinite power: 1. It looked like the first and last wheel in your contraption where turning when the others struggled. They have only one block open in front or behind. If the efficiency of the wheels is determined by water speed (was it cm/s ?) you might be able to restrict the canal to increase it. The flow rate (volume / time) is given by the pumps (three in your case) and doesn't change. Reduce the space it has to move through, then it has to be quicker... or it overflows. You could space the wheels out by a block and put a levee in between so every wheel has only one tile of water flowing to and from it. Maybe that works :) (side note: flow speed of water shows in its animation. They did a nice job with that!) 2. If you fill your battery (big water hole) up to a level where it can be pumped directly by the pumps on top you can save some power. This should bring the consumption down by two thirds and maybe free some power for more pumps in parallel, if the flow rate still isn't enough. Always nice to see new, wild projects from you. Thanks for the vids!

[@Taolan8472]

You can also increase the flow rate by putting the wheels on a slope. Drop each wheel down one layer as it goes down the river. I haven't done the math yet but I'll bet there is a golden ratio of pumps/wheels that stabilizes, and then above that in favor of the wheels is infinite power once your water reaches equilibrium.

[@AIAllar]

Don't let the area where the water wheels are get filled with water at all. Let it flow around and straight back into the pit without flooding it. That way the flow is the strongest and will make all waterwheels flow with very little water. Then even one set of pumps should be plenty.

[@MirejArt]

I am really glad that I found your video. I've been breaking my head for 2 days now figuring a way to store massive amounts of water in a reservoir higher/deeper than 3 blocks for the floodgate, as sadly you cannot build dams/levees on top of dams (My plan was to put 1-3 dams in the bottom row of my levee-built reservoir and floodgates in front of it so I can freely release water for drinking. But MAN I am an idiot to not think about getting the water out with these pumps (I got them in with the new pumps. I am an idiot)

[@nickioli13]

Instead of having the water source pour into the hole, have it run though the water wheels first and then into the hole. Then use the pumps to add to the incoming water to add more power.

[@lenamcneill9206]

You could put water wheels in the aqueduct before it gets into the hole as that's always flowing and you could use the new compact water wheels

[@falsehero2001]

In this video: Beavers try to invent Perpetual Motion.

[@jaye1967]

Before the powered pumps you could get this sort of setup to work with pumps and water dumpers. In that case it took 8 dumpers to move enough water to maintain a steady water flow to turn the standard water wheels. My guess is you'd need a similar amount of powered pumps. A possible setup would be to skip pumping out of the mega pit and go with a trench that is loop except for say 1 tile. Man, I think I'll go try that now.

[@xBucket13x]

I would try, swapping out the larger wheels. you could put 2 small wheels n the same space as one big one. there isnt enough flow the move the bigger ones.

[@Emile50]

if you put your stairs on the edge of your hole you can then place tnt on all the layers of the stairs at once and reduce some tedium that way. it does slow down over time though, but still pretty good

[@MannDerZorn]

I believe there are two things that can possibly fix the flow issue. Have a funnel for all the pumped water to go into a 2 wide canal instead of 1 little line (kind of a longshot) and another thing is make the canal go a down a bit with steps to let gravity increase the water flow rate.

[@IsaardP]

Narrower channels and use those compact water wheels. Power output is based on flow so try having your pumps going into a tiny pond up top then add single block channels with compact wheels off of there until you notice the flow drop off. Definitely put that water back in the reservoir tho.

[@wantsafriend]

I never played this game, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Theory: If I was a game programmer, I would code the wheels to need flow rate of water to factor in on how much it could turn a wheel. You have your wheels being pushed by water that is on a relatively flat plane and as such, the water does not build up speed and reduces force. Suggestion: Maybe if you space out the wheels so the water can build up speed and create stairs so that when the water falls it moves faster. Citation needed: Anyone who knows this game better than I do, please respond to this comment and correct me so he doesn't waste his time doing this.

[@gaalidas4836]

Perhaps gravity can be used to speed up the water flow after being pumped.

[@the_arcader1670]

LOL the "thats trippy no its lake sippy" got me so funny

[@MrDrewsky32]

A few ideas: You might have success with single lane compact wheels since it would take less water to get them spinning. You might benefit from having it flow downward at a faster pace by lowering the altitude of the trough between each wheel. For multi-wheel configurations, perhaps have a wider delta for the water to escape that's more centrally located? Like have a tapered delta that just flows off the mountain, perhaps into a series of other dams to catch more power on the way down the side. I realize the time investment would be immense, BUT THINK OF THE POWER YOU COULD HARNESS!

[@DracolegacyOfficial]

your one block wide choke point in the river is maddening. to increase the flow you dont just need more pumps, the water needs somewhere to go

[@snafubar447]

I just like the fact that at 0:14 it looks like one of the beavers is wearing a Fez in the mudbath.

[@jamessssssssssssssssssssssssss]

ive been doing a lot of testing CMS is basically a fixed rate based off of your water sources. So if you can contain all of the water and have it all moving one way with no flow restrictors after your power producing building thats the limit of what you can get. height changes and all the rest of it doesnt make it go higher. The only way to improve your water wheel eff is by reducing effciency losses or adding more water sources.

[@ats1075]

My suggestion is to use gravity. Have the first path empty and then after the first turn, lower the river and wheels by one block making a stair down for the water to flow and pick up speed. Then it should power your wheels making the stair down back to the reservoir to complete the loop.

[@nicscov]

After some testing, I've found the most efficient wheels are on top of a waterfall. Height did NOT matter. It IS important to have at LEAST 1 space between each wheel, though. IDK why, but whenever I did, efficiency increased. I separated each wheel with a block so the water HAD to flow through the wheels.

[@Kingston_504]

Keep it 1 wheel wide and delete all your pumps unfortunately you don't need all the layers of pumps at all if you let your pit fill up. put 6 pumps on top elevation so that the pipe only sticks 2 deep into the pond once it's fully full. Create a little catch area with 2 damns which them flows into the lower elevation where your infinite wheels are. The dams will help to even out the water surging. Also, at the end of each row you need to make circular turns. For instance, since your wheels are 2 wide, have a 2x2 space past it of water, then another 1 block of water to the past that to create essentially a U turn. Most efficient way to turn water to have consistent speeds. Never have a point that restricts it down to 1 block. Make sure the water does pour back into the pit so you aren't depleting your water and all your other wheels will work again.

[@hyperforce]

in the latest update waterwheels now slow down the flow of water. so rows upon rows of waterwheels will eventually bring the flow of water down. you'll need more gravity to bring the flow and power back up. your waterwheels may need to step all the way down to the lowest level to make use of all that gravity energy you gained by pumping it up. but the réservoir will have to be perpetually almost empty for it to produce max power

[@apples953]

I've done this with 12 normal pumps and always found it works best the more drops you have to increase flow so I normally start with a small waterfall at the start and continue a gradual decline for the length on each turn of the flow. Single width works best

[@nacrom]

Suggestion, the hight of the water for the pumps. Maybe the waterwheels must be a few layers deeper then the pumps, because with speed from gravitaion water accelrates. Maybe it works in the game?

[@sneakysoviet9]

Flow rate of the water is extremely important for the wheels. Keeping water flow high would probably be best if you keep the height of the water in the channel between half a block and one block in height. If you're using more than a single row of wheels (probably not recommended), then you need a centered entry and exit point for the water to balance the flow. Having only one line of pumps at the top would be better, rather than a tower of them, so as to keep water available in the reservoir, then have the flow return to the reservoir to cycle it, and have an overflow control one block in width to keep the reservoir from overfilling. This control should be one block lower than the return from the wheels.

[@kylecushing8920]

@ImKibitz, the water flow has both direction and speed. Facts: only the wheel at the start (nearest to the 2 new pumps) and the wheel at the end (nearest to flood gate) were working for both the 2-wide and single wide versions. so potential issues; 1. at the beginning, you are pumping the water into a single wide channel, but then expanding to a 2 (or 4) wide channel. So using some physics knowledge, if you go from a small tube to a wider tube, the flow rate(ex gallons/sec) stays the same, but due to the expansion of the channel the speed decreases. 2. at the end you are narrowing from 2 (or 4) wide to a single flood gate. This is probably causing a flow restriction and thus reduce speed of your channel, you would need to increase pressure(ie water supply) to overcome this. 3. you are adding/exiting flow from the sides so only 1 side benefits from the flow. this is causing the direction of flow to go sideways Suggestions: 1. start the area where water is pumped to be wide, then symmetrically funnel it to your 2 (or 4) wide channel 2. you should not restrict flow (ie reduce width of path) after the water wheels (ie don't have a single flood gate for a 2 (or 4) wide channel) 3. try to design your path such that you get as much flow as possible parallel to your water wheels. (ie have the wheel segments as long as possible) 4. potentially do elevation changes (ie water fall) after each stretch of wheels, this may increase water speed (ie converts potential energy (height) into kinetic energy (speed)). this depends on the game's physics implementation. Note: the wheel rows can be closer together than what I have below. the main points are the symmetrical beginning and the consistent path width. ______________ Pump 1 |__ Pump 1 |_______________ ... _______________ Pump 2 wheels | Pump 2 ______________ ... ________ | Pump 3 __| | Water | Pump 3______| | fall | _____________ ... ________| | | wheels | | ______ ... _________________| | etc

[@Wichnam]

Suggestion: Use the bottom of Lake Sippy to store the water up to 5 tiles high. Pump the water to the top area. Using 2 lines of pumps. Once Topside, let the water go down on platforms of 5 tiles, each tile going 1 block deeper. _____ __X__ __X__ ___X__ Lake Sippy

[@sordolaxder3.420]

maybe introducing a drop right after the pumps might help. have the pump output on the same level but drop the first canal by one or two blocks. that way the water gets accelerated by gravity instead of the pumps forcing it out. not sure if this makes sense though.

[@VHazz]

if you remove the barrier at the end of the waterflow or just lower it to allow the water to flow naturally then it should still work. effectively what you created was a pond and plopped water wheels into it. sure it will flow at first to fill but if you just let it flow do not see any actual issues.

[@EducatedTiger]

The description of the waterwheels says they produce 180 hp per cm/s the water is moving. The patch notes also stated that waterwheels will slow down the water that passes through. You may want to make some stream gauges to calculate the flowrate of the water, because you shouldn't need that many waterwheels to power those pumps. Also, water will flow faster after it goes downhill, so you'll probably want a one-block drop before the first set of water wheels, and another one every two or so wheels after that to keep them at peak efficiency. Finally, the early motion of the wheels shows that they don't need to be in two blocks of water to work, and it makes sense that you'll want the current to be on the outside of the wheels. Try not forcing the water to pool, and just giving it one-deep streams with the centers of the wheels elevated by an extra block. You should see much better flowrates, and thus more power.

[@JelliinaCup]

26:02 you've got a open spot under the stair!! If that doesn't help, then maybe a waterfall orrrr have the water wheels centered behind the middle pump with two on the side so the water doesn't lose momentum from turning that corner?

[@Evergreen64]

Congratulations Kibs! You have learned about the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

[@deilusi]

you need single width for pump to work, each pump can do single line only. so only tiny wheel do it, and its hard to get enough juice from it to power anything serious. Also its good to have a dam at the end, it seems to affect output, keeping water level higher.

[@GrenPara]

Cool video thanks for making it. If I were you I would have put each wheel on a step down. So first wheel would be where you have it, 2nd wheel one block down and so on. That way with water running down hill it should spin faster. Or even add two flow gates to let water out faster as that should increase speed.

[@toolongforyoutoread6]

Watching Kibz misunderstand how the flow rate affects the waterwheels gave me a sense of frustration that reminded me of when he would do unnecessary load balancing in Season 1 of Satisfactory.

[@TheConjurersTower]

"In this game we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" ~ Homer Beaverson

[@JasonW.]

Try dropping the water wheel levels one block every two water wheels, so two on a level, drop one block and two more wheels, etc, like water would flow naturally. You're paying power to raise water up that far, so take some of that power back by gradual drop of power wheels.

[@Rushifell]

Wheels slow down flow rate of water that passes through them thus wheels in a line gradually lose potential. You also need enough water leaving the system for flow rate to pick up and not back up. 1-2 tiles wide may not be sufficient for the flow rate you need for good turnaround. Your wheels occupy 2-4 tiles width +depth and need at least that much egress to keep up water flow without restriction/backup. As another commenter said gravity can also help you by using it to accelerate water flow rate, you can also have a much larger body of water being restricted into a narrow flow path to accelerate water flow. So pumping to a high reservoir, like a water tower, then cascading down a path the width of your wheels can give you significantly increased water flow rate. I was able to do this on just the basic river by widening the river body and then restricting the flow to a narrow channel as it passes through my wheels. I havent used the flow rate gauge to see how much impact each wheel has on the rate of flow into the next or if that rate of flow recovers beyond a certain point or not which might affect optimal wheel spacing if it does actually recover without another change in elevation to accelerate.

[@tentacledhorror]

The 4 smaller water wheels will work, you just need to have the water hit the mall head on. If you did the back wheels instead of the front, they would have better effeciency. Same for if you changed how the water initially flowed into the wheels, a couple levies could help the water hit the wheels on the far side.

[@TheRegret]

blast out the other side too, it looks like the flow of water only happens at waterfalls and bottlenecks so either build a tiered waterfall with the wheels or build a wide river wait for it to fill up then bottleneck everything and put the wheels along the edge. those are my ideas. seems like a fun game idk if i can get into it

[@GAIS414]

You need a bigger outlet for the wheels to turn, one block is not enough. And you lose power in the bends as well so make the flow as straight as possible where you need power. You can also build the wheels in a stair formation to keep the power and flow up.

[@13blackg]

You could still blast the whole pit like you did, but have the stairs follow the outside walls. So when you no longer need the stairs you can blast them all from the edge

[@patjakker6730]

I just (a few weeks ago) bought this game and did exactly the same thing (haha) and made it work with just 4 wheels. Proper physics (obviously) don't apply in this game, the HP output/amount of the wheel is only determent by the speed of the water. I tried alot (maybe it all ) also a bit of "cheat " by streamlining riverbeds in map editor with slopes but they don't have any effect. My most effective wheel set up was just with a Levee in front of it and a Dam (on the same hight/level) behind it.

[@necron00772]

Hey Kibits Try doing a waterfall setup remember your goal is have flowing water so you want to get the best flow out of your water For example of 2 block drop 2 your water wheels one set at a time and keep going should give you More flow more power

[@JohnTrustworthy]

Right now the pumps plus water wheels might not be capable of causing perpetual motion in a system of this size. Consider this: Water wheels generate power from waterflow speed. Waterflow speed is dependent on being pushed by water from previous cells and on dropping elevation. The potential for elevation of one pump is 6 height and the combined speed of water dropping from 6 height in the most efficient configuration might not be enough to power a pump. Nevertheless, right now the optimal design would be one consisting of six terraces of water wheels with each water wheel having a "funnel" in front of it so that the water speed is faster when passing through it.

[@alexsparda1708]

Hey kibz, It says hps/cms It means It is 180*waterspeed

[@smi07067]

It looks like the wheels work on the turns. You may want to try and make a zig zag pattern instead of a long row of power wheels

[@supersmiley5587]

For increasing the speed u could make a stairway so the water that is flowing goes down on a 45° steep angle and picks up speed

[@ROCKONNGUNDAMS]

Kibitz- Water doesn't move along the grid, you've gotta consider each entry/exit point of a river, draw direct lines between each

[@denshi45]

also a possible idea is instead of using the pumps to pump the water out of the lake. fill the lake and use the pumps to pump the water back in and have a "natural" river when the lake fills up.

[@p75369]

"Although it says it can produce 180hp..." The /cms just sitting there "Am I a joke to you?"

[@solrflare4684]

Keep the water flowing straight instead of letting it out of the side so the Current travels straight and not out to the left. For example in lake city when you have the water flow coming in at the start of the power wheels it makes a right turn and the right wheel is getting all the power and the left has no flow cause at the water is going to the right. So having the opening on the left it only having a current to the end of the left so if you make it straight then all the water current would be flowing straight and make you power.

[@JamiePineappleWyatt]

Use the water in a different way. You've got all this space next to the pumps to create a staggered waterfall and you can slam all the wheels there for faster flow and complete your infinite water loop at the same time. Two birdies, one big ass stone.

[@ikabobsdream8585]

those wheels work based on water current to get the Current to Flow Build in steps!! water flows downhill faster..

[@RantingFire]

So, im guessing the devs may have added in a very basic entropy mechanic on the new water wheels. I would think the easiest way to do that would be to have the water wheels themselves slow the flow of water. You might try staggering the wheels a bit. Separate them by at least a single block and drop the elevation by a single block to re-supply a flow rate per wheel level. If it works, you could probably divide the pumped water into 2 or even 3 troughs so you get 2 or 3 single wheel width rivers. It would really allow for infinite expansion, but the new lake is deep enough that it might allow you to get past the entropy mechanic and produce more power then you have to supply to it.

[@JamesLyda]

Kibs, Let the whole area fill with water in your large pit first, then see how the pumps do!! Mucho water means more movement!

[@Ghozer]

They changed the mechanics of the way water flows, if you have 2 wide, you need a 2 wide outlet (or more, but not too much) to allow the water to out-flow, using a 1-wide only will restrict the speed.... Also, try and 'step' it every so often (every 2 or 3 wheels) this will help with the flow-rate...

[@colmdonnelly9511]

If the wheels are spinning until the water reaches the end of the trough, then couldn't you make the output gate 2 blocks deep to ensure constant flow?

[@jaroldscottwilliams.3rd832]

Ok, I think the problem here is that you need to consider gravity; though it's possible you just don't have enough volume as well. Find the highest spot you can, or build the highest spot you can, and make six or nine or even twelve [three sides pumping, one side releasing water] water towers (starting from the top down would be easiest I think, because you'll find the height first and then build six down using a pyramid shape to expand the tower as you build) and have all towers dump into the same basin with four overflow areas and two flood gates that drop into a two-tile river with raised areas that catch the overflow from the basin and channel them into the river. Then start zig-zag water wheels back and forth as you go down further and further. The pattern is like this: Two side by side empty spaces that receive the water from the gate above, blocks on one side+ water wheel on the other (Less is more here... the narrowed sections will ramp up the pressure and you can build walls up one-higher to act as a pressure release to avoid flooding everything), two side by side empty space, then a flood gate that drops down below. If you ever intend to expand, make sure to leave a flood gate in a wall segment as if to drop down into another segment of water wheels. Last you'll need to run a river back to the water Pyramid (one block higher than the level your basin can fill to so the river will NOT slow down at any point) and make a basin large enough to wrap around the water pyramid and be deep enough; but this is fairly easy as you can just build stairs down in a half spiral at the outermost edge of the basin and if you need to deepen the basin, the stairs will always be there without having a big chunky looking thing in the middle that you need to destroy for the basin to look good. (You may need to build up rest-stops where you can construct temporary living spaces when deepening the basin, transfer beavers to live there, build, then transfer them back and destroy the rest stops while leaving the area to rebuild them if you need it deeper in the future) You'll want to fill up ALL of the flood gate areas in reverse: bottom to the top, then just run rampant with the clicking the flood gates down one from the top to the bottom to create a strong flow. The faster you are with clicking all of the flood gates from top to bottom, the less chance you'll have of losing pressure due to overflow. If you wanted to add more power production, you can just create an unconnected segment of river and water wheels, then fill them up with water before connecting them. I'm not entirely sure if you would need to restart the system by closing the flood gates... but... it is possible. I think you might be able to get away with just building up a wall, then dropping the flood gate you hopefully installed in the wall near the river exit in case you decided to expand everything once more. Theoretically, you could go all the way from one corner of the map to another corner and produce enough power to charge a city that covers the entire other three fourths of the map... assuming you can go deep enough.

[@goosegamer2347]

You should make the water powering the wheels go back into the pit after they go through, then make an overflow system for the pit that diverts the unused water back to the other river

[@spqrjack2941]

You should haver made the Wheels a level below the pumps, so the gravity adds to the speed of water flow

[@soulmack2428]

You can use the huge waterfall feeding your pit and place wheels there as the water has a good force it may produce energy