Can NAM hardware compete with ToneX?

Check out our collections of Captures, Profiles, Presets and Impulse Responses: tonejunkiestor...
Full Episode: • (Redacted To Avoid Dem...
HW, Sooze, and Jon 2 discuss the New Dime Head NAM Player Pedal. Can it compete with ToneX?

[@serpentsbane9166]

Just to clarify one thing, the sub-$100 U.S. "Tank-G" pedal is a Chinese OEM product (hence the different brand names you can find on these, Cuvave / M-Vave / Playwell ) and they actually developed their own software for recording amp captures / profiles. However, this product is really popular in Brazil due to low budgets and high import tax, so the Brazilians have already figured out how to use NAM trained models on the unit. There are some videos on this, but none in English yet that I am aware of. It could be a real dark horse contender in the modeling game! \m/

[@rossbalch]

I bought ToneX day One. I made a bunch of captures. I now exclusively use NAM. It sounds and feels better than anything else out there. Also from a training point of view, what frustrated me with ToneX was only being able to train 1 at a time. With NAM I can record like 20 captures and then train the all in a batch, to me that's a much better workflow.

[@rossbalch]

Ironically, the open sourceness is somewhat holding NAM back I reckon. The absolute hostility to any type of monetary transaction happening around NAM must surely be putting off some of the bigger hitters. A more user friendly training system that guides you like ToneX would certainly be help a bit I think.

[@ReductioAdAbsurdum]

NAM has *half a millisecond* of latency, that's 1/6th of the TONEX pedal. That's huge for amp-only pedals of this nature (NAM, Tonex, Kemper player), which require an additional effects to complete the package.

[@jonathanarnold2225]

I own two NAM pedals. They are great

[@ethagr8162]

The appeal for me with NAM is the flexibility when recording. It sounds great and there’s a great variety of amps that nobody has captured. The pedal is a bit expensive though so for right now I’ll be using the Tonex One for live sounds

[@BobGuido]

There are products released and in development using "proprietary" technology based on a modified version of the NAM code downloaded for free online. ZOOM just released one. Several more are coming. I use NAM and I don't use Linux. I came from real amps and the Fractal Audio Axe-FX world. NAM sounds, plays and feels way closer to how my real amps do than the Fractal units or anything else I've tried including ToneX. I work as an audio engineer by day and am a signed recording artist, not a gear collector. NAM is being adapted for many products right now. Companies are using the NAM code to develop their own products. Elegant UI and attractive pricing will enable the jump from ToneX.

[@BobGuido]

One of the new NAM pedals coming is the POLY EFFECTS - AMPLE. It does dual NAM captures in stereo and uses a similar UI to their VERBS pedal. Will be out in the fall along with some other new NAM capture player pedals. I've been saying this for a while now... the NAM pedal flood is coming and its going to change the entire market of amp simulation products forever. NAM is so accurate but it uses too much processing power to be effective on a computer which is why offloading it into a dedicated pedal is the best way to use NAM.

[@steveliberty]

I envision several larger companies eventually creating NAMM hardware, and if any of them are the size of ToneX One and the price of ToneX One, then maybe they will compete ... but they will be way behind in market share by then, so probably not.

[@carlossanteliz5293]

The TJ´s SAAS!. Go for it!

[@rethinktone]

Hey guys, I was wondering if you guys can make a video comparing monitoring options. I bring it up because it seems like nam is designed specifically for direct captures whereas tonex captures amps and cabs. In theory, would nam sound best with a real cab? I know you guys are fans of the kemper cab, but what are your thoughts on a power amp and real cab? I'd love to best simulate amp tones without coloration from a mic. If you have a video on this, would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

I am looking into this, being in Australia though, I don't like me chances of getting in early. I remember buying something from Italy just as Covid-19 hit and it was like 4 months before I got my item. Fair enough though, it killed umpteen thousands of Italians. The latency, or lack thereof in this unit is insane, beats almost all things out there, the only thing I want to know is how to run a FX unit with the it pre and post? And what is a good unit to run the FX? Even though it not that cheap here in Oz it stills come in a lot cheaper than the bigger names and the tests prove it is the best for profiles.

[@fuzzaldryn9626]

It takes FX before and after like a champ. The input AD converter has huge headroom, so even when hitting it hard with a booster, it doesn't clip. You can really use like a real amp.

[@rjaquin31]

You guys should check out Aviate Audio Multiverse. While not a VST loader, companies that make a VST can easily port them in and run them on the hardware. Its pretty much exactly what you are talking about. An actual commercial product without it being a windows computer in a pedal.

[@heartsquaremusic2953]

it’s literally the same technology as tonex which is only usable with 3rd party captures anyway…which is literally the same thing.

[@RdoGomes]

the Nam Player has 60 second convolution reverb

[@ReductioAdAbsurdum]

Can you load your own IRs? Because delay is way more important than reverb, IMO, and you can do both with convolution.

[@RdoGomes]

@@ReductioAdAbsurdum yes you can

[@randrothify]

NAM is supposed to work with MOD Devices Dwarf pedal. I was excited about this feature but MOD cut short their production run of Dwarf pedals for their Kickstarter campaign, so I never got it. I don’t think it will ever get critical mass because the companies supporting it a la MOD Devices don’t have enough scale and built-in customer base to seed the market and sustain support. The only ones who will support it are the niche techno-tinkerers that tend to overestimate pure technical superiority over ease of use and finished ecosystem to encourage mass market adoption. This segment of the market tends to be very vocal and passionate but unrealistic and unsophisticated in their understanding of business issues like marketing. That’s why these guys are building the products and not selling. That’s okay. There’s room for both and we need the tinkerers to innovate but they generally incorrectly project their enthusiasm to figure out and put up with half-baked and complicated interfaces onto the general public. Normal consumers just want to plug something in and have it work out of the box without any fuss and won’t care if it is the pinnacle of engineering elegance.

[@ric771612]

I Have them both and and by using the same third party profiles nam in my opinion is better than tonex. By the way nam has a 60 sec convolution reverb loader so you can add reverbs too.

[@Venemoth666]

Only talking? No test?

[@FunkyELF]

All this Apple Music vs Spotify talk.... everyone knows KZbin Music is where it's at. You buy a KZbin premium for like $15/mo and not only do you not have to watch commercials in KZbin but you also get KZbin Music which has unlimited content. The example I give people... I was driving on a business trip with a colleague and was telling Android Auto (though you could use Car Play as well) to "play I Wanna Dance With Somebody by Rob Thomas". It's a video Rob Thomas uploaded during the pandemic of him in his house playing his acoustic guitar singing a Whitney Houston cover. It's something that doesn't exist on Spotify or Apple Music but because KZbin recognized it as music it's now on KZbin Music.

[@ToneJunkieTV]

You are 100% right.... Also podcast like ours, Guitar Friends, automatically populate on KZbin Music when we upload to youtube. For me Spotify is worth it because it integrates with my Tesla Model 3 perfectly., plus my kids take my phone and watch their videos on youtube and It throws off my algorithm.

[@ksharpe10]

I am ready for episode 36 from my best youtube buddies, HEY SOOZE!!!!

[@thesoozeTJ]

Hey man!! 🎉

[@claretimus]

I would buy a NAM pack of captures from you guys to run it on Two Notes Genome...currently using free NAM captures... I also have the Tonex pedal / plugin, but still happy with the captures which came with it...

[@ToneJunkieTV]

Look out for a new NAM Pack this weekend!

[@ChrisMadson]

I am sure there will be a market for this, but the support that you get from bigger names like ToneX makes it much more attractive.

[@CTBlaze]

the opposite is the case, small companies give way better support, at least in Germany! have you ever needed support from IK multimedia? good luck😅

[@CTBlaze]

that is bullshit that it is complicated to train your own models for NAM. within two days of having received the NAM player, I was able to capture and train (pedals, and trained with the Google collab thing). THEN I discovered the amalgam captures, and I don't think it can get any better in today's modeller world. And the NAM Player pedal IS the best product it can be. And will have new features pushed just by DSP wizardry !!!

[@notalkguitarampplug-insrev784]

Have it in front of me and OMG I dig it. It’s the only way today to use the most advanced NAM captures with that less than 0,5 ms (!) latency… faster than any fractal/kemper/Quad Cortex and NAM captures ares really much more complex and accurate than ToneX and Kemper imo

[@ToneJunkieTV]

I really want to get my hands on one because I actually think being able to run captures and having a screen that shows you what's going on which even the big tones doesn't do a great job of is kind of worth the price. I'm planning to get one once they are a little more readily available.

[@notalkguitarampplug-insrev784]

@@ToneJunkieTV yes they are facing a lot of demand in Europe but I believe they are making a lot of unit right now

[@devDarkest]

Bro is really acting like he had to code the shit on PyTorch himself 😂😂😂. For a channel that sells NAM profiles and created captures, you guys are grossly overstating how hard it is to create profiles. The model is already trained LOL. All you have to do is follow the instructions. There is for sure a barrier of entry as far as GPU Hardware and computer aptitude but that’s how the sausage is made. It is free for personal and commercial use. It’s merely a tool.

[@helpik1]

Hi i hoppe from you mesa mk7 nam pack, thanx

[@kierenmoore3236]

John McAfee … ‘interesting’ dude, lol

[@Pummelfay]

I cannot believe u talking bad about apple music over fkn spotify. Spotify is the biggest s company ever. Playlists arent better (that is subjective of course), apple music pays way more royalties to artists (which is a fact), AND has more music and deep cuts, AND has lossless (spotify cant even manage that) and thats just the tip of the iceberg. Srly my dudes I often watch your content but yall have to be aware of what youre promoting with your platform. Please do some research.

[@Pummelfay]

And that is not even touching on the bullshit moves their CEO is constantly doing. Apple music is on another level compared to that s.. sorry for the rant

[@breadnaut3087]

I love Spotify.

[@thesoozeTJ]

@@Pummelfaywe are used to rants around here! 😂

[@ToneJunkieTV]

I'm going to politely say, you could also do some more research here. It's easy to make a judgement call on Spotify vs apple by looking at one average per stream royalty number but it's more complicated than that. Spotify pays out in royalties 70% of revenues. Apple music pays out 71% of revenues, which would beg the question.... why does apple pay so much more on average per stream and the answer to that comes when you look at what comprises that average per stream royalty. Spotify offers a free ad supported option which produces less revenue than a person paying for a subscription and as a result has many many more non subscribing listeners than paying ones and many many more streams than apple does. Spotify is larger. So what does this mean for the artist... well, there is a reason there are many many more streams on Spotify than on Apple music because of how many people use the free option, but using the free option results in less revenue generated per stream and less for Spotify and the artist to split up in that teir. Apple doesn't offer this teir at all which really then begs the question.... do artists benefit from having their music played on the Spotify free tier? Is access to the music for a "free ad supported" listener and collecting less on those streams worth it to the artist? I don't know the answer to that but the notion that spotify just keeps more of the money per stream is not accurate. Apple chooses to only offer their product to subscribers and their customers on average make more money, have higher net worths and are usually bundled into other apple products. Spotify offers one product their average customer makes less and the majority of their streams happen on the free ad supported tier which generates less than a subscriptions fee. Also I don't subscribe to the notion that I have to be careful what I say and who I support.... I'm a person talking on the internet. Spotify has way more streams because of their free tier not because people like me say we prefer them.

[@Pummelfay]

@@ToneJunkieTV Sounds like corporate talk to me. You also ignored the fact, that Spotify doesn’t even provide lossless audio even in their paid tier. You have your opinion and I have mine.

[@garyphillips725]

You should learn more about the product before you yabber. Easy to find all sorts of information from the website, Facebook page and other demonstrations. I changed the channel quick.