Can You Charge an Electric Vehicle From a 13A Socket?

[@kieranmccreedy271]

Pros - only pulling 2.3kW means charging can be provided by a 3.6kW hybrid solar inverter. Also, 10A for 12 hours can provide 100+ miles of range added. Plenty for most.

[@33andy33gmail]

I’ve found myself limiting my SyncEV to 12amps to keep it within scope of the inverter. Unfortunately, unlike various other brands, their “smart” charging is anything but. Of course, knowing I can set it back to 32amps is massively important!

[@audigex]

I charged my Tesla on a regular 13A socket for nearly 2 years, it was slow but worked great

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Do the regs make any distinction between a normal EVCP, requiring a dedicted circuit with double-pole RCD and PEN fault protection, and a 13A socket intended for EV charging?

[@TeamSimpsonRacing]

This 100% needs another video and clarification 👍

[@jakebarrow2000]

It's still an ev charger in my eyes so needs pen fault and dedicated circuit

[@paulspratt362]

I do a very low mileage and short journeys so I think overnight top up charging will suit me. My detached garage has two 13A sockets fed from a spur from the house, and this spur is fed from the main distribution box via a 16amp circuit breaker. So I am guessing my best option will be to get the 13A sockets replaced with an EV marked socket. And maybe limit charging to 8 amps.

[@paulf3353]

Why would you use? Very easy answer, socket is

[@keithdenton8386]

I use a normal 3 pin socket with a extension cable using Octopus intelligent. It charges my Tesla without a problem roughly 13 to 20% a night, when its cheap. I have done for a year now. Over three to four nights my battery goes from 40% to 90% Regulations be damned.

[@tn1495]

I’m sure an extension cable is not advised for safety

[@DaRkLoRd-rc5yu]

Yeah the wattage draw is consistently high close to the limit of a wall plug so it will likely put alot of stress on an extension cord and have a higher risk of blowing a fuse or starting a fire. If your going to use an extension cord at least make sure not to plug anything else into it.

[@TheoFennel]

@tn1495 that's not true, if the cable is the right one and it's got a 13am fuse it's fine. I'm using one now.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

@@TheoFennel and is fully extended, not partially coiled. They get very melty, very fast.

[@RabM1990]

​@@TheoFennelusing one....for now

[@tlhIngan]

The main reason is simple - it's available. In North America, with our weedy 120V 15A (12A continuous, 80% load), there are often outlets in garages and outdoors, and EVs generally charge around 5km/hr through this ultra-slow level 1 charger. But if you drive under 50km a day, it's replenished overnight. It's available and easy and requires little to no work. Of course across the pond with your 240V it's level 2 charging so you can get double the charging rate, so you can charge faster. Sure, if you're charging a huge 100kWh battery pack from flat via a level 1 or level 2 charger it'll take days, but if you're plugging in every night, it's a perfectly reasonable option and makes EVs practical for a lot more people who suddenly realize they don't need to hire an electrician and pay thousands of dollars to install a special EV charging outlet. Of course, if you're having to run power to the garage for charging, then it makes no sense to install such a limited outlet - the cost difference to run a 120V 15A socket versus a 240V 50A socket is generally minimal so you might as well install a high powered socket, but if there's already a socket you can use it's well worth using.

[@webzterd]

You've completely missed the PHEV market. From the 3 pin charger supplied at a normal socket, I'm empty to full in about 4-5 hours. It's all I need and suits my charging cycle; during the day when I'm not using as much of my solar, but don't want to charge at 7kw as that will pull from the network. Lastly, this reg was clearly written with full ev and 3kw+ charging in mind. This video is half covered with "everyone that has no central heating, unplug your electric heaters" which are often pulling 10A for extended periods. I think this is one of those situations where I think the rule makers made bad rules, because they had to side on the lowest common denominator of idiot using it.

[@johnburns4017]

You still need an EV rated 13A socket outlet.

[@TheEulerID]

​@@johnburns4017doesn't apply to householders using an existing socket, unless you can name a law that criminalises such things. I would also mention that it is likely to be breached a lot. A relative turning up for the weekend is quite likely to be obliged by the householder with a chance for a top-up charge via an extension cable. If the intention is to make that sort of thing illegal, then there had better be appropriate publicity as to its dangers, as the average householder will not have a clue about things like the dangers of PEN faults (which, of course, will apply to using any earthed appliance outdoors - although most electric garden tools will be class 2). I should add that civil liability is another matter. If a car is being charged via an standard 13A socket, and becomes energised due to a PEN fault, then pinning down responsibility is going to be tricky. Even well informed householders, who know about the function of RCDs will probably expect that to provide protection from electrocution.

[@sam.p12345]

I’ve been charging mine for about 2 years with no problem from a 13A socket. As noted in other comments, you can generally get 100 miles of charge overnight. For most people, there’s no need for a fast charger to be installed at home, it’s something that the electricians channels seem to promote I guess just because it’s a nice simple profitable job.

[@chrisg6597]

One problem is that Joe Public won't have read the regs regarding not using an extension lead, or in fact using a dedicated 13A socket. I've already seen on many occasions extension leads coming out of window's or the front door (usually terraced houses) to charge their car.

[@deang5622]

That's alright...the fire will occur on the outside of the house...💥

[@edc1569]

There's always been the opportunity to melt extensions leads.

[@TheEulerID]

I'm pretty sure there is no law on the subject that applies to householders, just to those installing fixed wiring. Of course, there could be a civil liability issue. I doubt many householders are aware of the fine detail of regulations, such as not using a socket at full 13A for sustained loads, or that double sockets are only rated for 20 amps total for a sustained load.

[@andrewfrance1047]

The useful reason for being able to use a 13A socket is not to charge your car, but the one a friend or relative is visiting you with. They are a bit anxious they have enough charge to get them home so you let them plug it in for a couple of hours to help them out.

[@gnlgrim2]

Great video guys. As always. But sorry no one will follow that guidlines. You used to get a 13a socket outlet charger(tesla mobil connector)when you buy a tesla( now sold seperatly) and people will carry it with a extention cord in their trunk, plug it in inside and though the window.

[@stunimbus1543]

So where an EV charge point is specified by the planning consent, etc, plenty of builders put a 13amp socket on the outside wall rather than a proper 7kw charger.

[@edc1569]

Yeah and wires it up with some 2.5mm, the building standards in this country are beyond hopeless.

[@lisa3jemima]

Most authorities state type 2 in the application conditions.

[@SacredPlatypus]

One aspect not apparently covered, is that some granny chargers offer option of reduced charging current rates, obviously this lengthens the charge rate but it reduces the load on the house supply, and the resultant resistive heating. One example (available in Type 1 and 2 versions) defaults to a charge rate of 10A, but can be changed by the user to charge at 6 / 8 / 10 / 13 / 16A. It can also be fitted with 13A UK plug; European 16A Euro plug; or 16A CEE Blue connector. Extensions are available. Obviously, one must observe and obey the instructions. I suspect el-cheapo granny chargers are best avoided.

[@clive4500]

An outside socket is an outside socket as far as Somebody who wants to charge their car. That regulation isn't worth the paper it's written on. Only time those sockets will get fitted. If the customer Says I want one Just for car charging . And is prepared to pay premium for it. A few melted plugs though might change their mind. 😃

[@gabor.nadudvari]

4:52 Hey, there is nothing there :)

[@skinneramble8613]

I'm an EV owner, not an electrician. What is the difference in construction between a socket marked as for EV charging and a new socket from a reputable maker? (I always think MK of course.). Charging at 10A on a new socket (in a new house) seems to make it only slightly warm even after several hours. Like a lot of people if it is safe it is a perfectly practical arrangement for me as overnight is easily enough time. We do have a Zappi at home though.

[@smc812]

Not necessarily anything, however the manufacturer has done sufficient testing to be able to confidently assure that the socket will allow 10A constant load for years and years. Unmarked sockets haven't been validated to this level.

[@skinneramble8613]

@@smc812 Thanks,.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

Bear in mind you're also using less than 80% of the rated load capability at 10A, so you do have a safety margin built in there.

[@smc812]

As an EV driver, how does BS7671 regulations matter to me when plugging in a device? I don't issue myself a certificate for plugging in a socket or extension cable.

[@brettjackson2008]

@@smc812 I think he explained quite well. Fill your boots, but remember not to cry when your house insurer refuses to pay up when you have an electrical fire. Alternatively just follow his advice and save yourself a load of risk and hassle for probably less money than a night out on the beer.

[@smc812]

@@brettjackson2008 My insurance policy says nothing about what I can use my sockets for.

[@brettjackson2008]

​@@smc812 best of luck then 👍

[@ianjames8941]

So a standard UK domestic socket that says it's rated at 13Amps in fact isn't? Where's the warning on the product and it's packaging? If it's not rated at 13 amps continuously (say for a space heater) what are it's maximum ratings? What is it's maximum continuous safe load? Where is this specified? Just how long can I run a 3kw/13amp fan heater for? (ignoring the cost!)

[@TheEulerID]

It is going to depend on the quality and condition of the plug and socket. It could last years. Of course most, if not all 3 kW space heaters have a thermostat and are expected to cycle. Wham it upto full, in a big room then it could run for a very long time, although maybe bankrupt you at current power prices.

[@MS-Patriot2]

Just another example of the IET boffins getting all excited about forcing specification for another cash cow product introduction. The lawyers are getting sweaty too, since they have been told by manufacturers that the test data for running a 13A socket at 13A for 20 hours caused it to melt, sometimes. Big arse covering exercise. Running 2.5mm T&E cable as a dedicated spur in ideal installation conditions, the IET tell us, is rated at 27A. So why on earth would the standard 13A twin socket outlet not be BS rated to the same current ?

[@TheEulerID]

@@MS-Patriot2 The official BS1363 standard for twin sockets is for a sustained 20A over a period of 4 hours without causing an excessive increase in temperature. The test conditions are for 14A on one side, and 6A on the other (and it is 14A for a safety margin and because a fuse will almost certainly not "blow" at 14A, even after a couple of hours or more). That maximum rate of 13A is possible, but not for sustained use. So not problem for, say, a washing machines and a tumble drier on the same socket as neither have sustained loads of 13A as their respective heating circuits (for water and air) tend to cycle. However, not so wise to run 2 x 3 kW space heaters off the same twin socket as they are often sustained loads. Not, I should add, that anybody ever tells householders about this.

[@MS-Patriot2]

@@TheEulerID Thank you for your very informative summary. Clearly manufacturers are not going to spend extra to meet requirements over the standard specified. I got in this rabbit hole having installed a decent quality IP66 double socket fed from a 32A RCBO run in 4mm armoured cable. The customer was only ever going to use a Mode 2 ‘granny charger’ that I understand are limited to a 10A draw from the house supply. It worked great for two years. He then let the property, hence an EICR was performed and the electrician slapped a “not for EV charging” label on that socket. Belt and braces I guess. Still, manufacturers can now charge at least double for a special socket that is type tested to 10A forever.

[@TheEulerID]

@@MS-Patriot2 The issue will likely be more to do with lack of broken PEN detection than the rating of the socket. The issue with that is on TN-C-S power distribution systems, which is the great majority in the UK. If there is a broken combined neutral/earth in the supply system (and those are becoming more common as the underground cables and connections age), and there is a load on the system, then the voltage on the earth/CPC circuit can rise to dangerous levels and, in principle, to something close to full line voltage if there no low impedance path to earth (and with gas and water often now supplied by plastic pipes, earth bonding does not help in such situatiojs) . As the car chassis is connected to the supply earth when charging, that means the car chassis can also reach dangerous voltages with respect to earth. As cars are often outdoors when being charged, often in the rain, anybody wandering by and touching the car could receive a lethal shock. The solution to that is either to have a TT system, with a separate earth via an earth rod, or, as most people have, a charger with broken PEN detection, a system that simultaneously breaks line, neutral and earth. Hot tubs have the same issue. So, why is it not such an issue indoors, and the answer to that is it is drier, and that conductive metal surfaces ought to be bonded so, if you touch a tap and the microwave case, they are essentially at the same potential. The floor will not be, but in general, that will be a very poor conductor. So, why is it not an issue with electrical garden equipment? Well, it is, if not double-insulated. Most of that equipment will be. So will an RCD save you? Basically, no as the current will flow via the CPC, connect to the neutral at the distribution head, back to the CU and RCD and exactly balance out. So, why if broken PEN faults are becoming more common, why are we not hearing of many electrocutions? The reason for that is often because of older gas and water distribution systems. They are bonded to the house CPC and that means, if there is a PEN fault, your neutral current finds its way be means of your bonding systems, by way of neighbour's bonding systems and back to the substation via their PEN connection (and a bit through the Earth too). Neither householder will be aware, but if a electrician comes along and disconnects the ground at the neighbour's house, they, or anybody else, could be hit by full line voltage from any earthed metalwork. This is something that is called diverted neutrals, and a hot topic at the moment. New builds will be required to have "foundation earthing" to help deal with the issues of broken Pens. John Ward on KZbin has excellent issues on earthing systems, car charging and diverted neutrals.

[@adrianupnorth]

Great video Joe, highlighting a really good situation that going to be happening a lot soon. Why would you just plug in and not have a 7KW charger - cost. Some members of the public won't pay for charge points. Some won't understand why a normal 13amp plug with two extension cables isn't safe. A lot of small EV's that are coming to market will not need a charge point so any plug will do from them.

[@thalesofmiletus2966]

Yup. Cost. The amount some electrical contractors charge is outrageous. The Government give you a grant and the EC’s put their prices up by a similar amount.

[@YorkshireHillbilly]

This is how I charge my EV6. The car's parked 10 meters away from the house in a shared private car park, so I'd have to have a charging pole put in and the council want planning permission etc. It's far easier to just hoy the cable over my hedge and to plug it into an IP66 socket for the night. Especially when my leccy costs a fraction of the cost of DC charging.

[@netheredgeelectrical7653]

Is there not also a requirement for PEN fault detection or a separate earth rod?

[@marklola12]

Not using a house socket no

[@netheredgeelectrical7653]

@@marklola12 it's not a 'house' socket though is it? It's a dedicated ev chargepoint socket and therefore presumably come under the same regs as any other EV chargepoint. 6mA dc protection?

[@wanderingwilcoxs]

Most people do less than 30 miles a day so (topping up overnight is perfectly doable) that’s what I will be doing as I can’t have a home charger.

[@my_carp_life3424]

Why would I want to get rip off with these 7kw wall charges when my car can only charge at 3.6kw max, the 3pin granny charger that came with the car charges the car in 5 hours perfect for me at night on the cheap rate.

[@monkeyseemonkeydo432]

As long as the circuit and socket you plug into can handle the current without degrading over time from any heat generated

[@Pikestnt]

One side issue is that EVs employ battery temperature control. If you charge @ 2kw on a cold day, maybe as much as 1kw might be used to maintain battery temp and thus you’re only putting 1kw into the battery. If you charge at 20kw, charging is much quicker and thus the energy lost to battery conditioning is greatly reduced: 100kwh battery charged at 2kw might take as long as 100hrs, meaning 100h x 1kw of battery conditioning At 50kw, it will be charged after 2hrs meaning only 2h x 1kw lost

[@Mladjasmilic]

In Serbia, having 3 phase 16 socket is the norm - 11kW. But most of sockets carry no more than half of rating, and we use overrated cables - the norm is 2.5mm for 16A, 4mm for 20A and 6mm for 25A load. At no point in my home there is current greater than 25A - joy of 3 phase.

[@edc1569]

It’s an extra cost when it comes to PV and home batteries tho.

[@Mladjasmilic]

@@edc1569 Not strictly. If you wire up all low power devices to one phase, it is not an issue.

[@jamesharris1305]

Great video, thanks. Please can you drop a link to the EV socket you mentioned. Also, where is the video you pointed at?

[@alunroberts1439]

So this tells me the need for £1000 worth or crap in a box on a out side wall is not needed why not just have a 32amp commando socket for about £15 for a good one.

[@djtaylorutube]

Ah yes but the criminally corrupt government in place at the moment, wants the customer to have to pay for the privilege of handing the government control of the on/off switch of that charge point. Backhanders to their donors doesn't come cheap you know!

[@edc1569]

Commando sockets aren’t really appropriate for residential. EV socket standard is fine and safe, just everyone’s milking the market at the moment.

[@1bigsyd]

I’ve never seen an outside socket that has been promoted as being EV charging suitable..any links..

[@thattoolguy9432]

Masterplug mode 2 .. available from most electrical wholesalers

[@rossthompson1936]

BG make one (as shown in the video) that’s the only one I’ve ever seen. But why would you, especially if it’s spurred off a ring with the kitchen. As for the master plug. It’s not a socket outlet and isn’t what the Regs are asking for.

[@thattoolguy9432]

You're thinking of the masterplug charging cable.. i was talking about the EVH132S1SPA, which i thinkk is made by BG but branded masterplug

[@rossthompson1936]

@@thattoolguy9432 thanks for pointing that out. You are correct. It probably is a BG rebranded. This is now the only socket I’ve seen!

[@thattoolguy9432]

@@rossthompson1936 i haven't seen any others either, you would have thought big brands would have jumped on the wagon.. to be fair though.. BG make some great ip rated gear

[@G1ZQCArtwork]

So, whats to stop folks doubling up and using Two.? I know of lighting rigs of 7 KW doing just that from Two sockets on the same ring. Not the correct thing of course, (note to trolls). This went with a bang one evening, when they used Two sockets on differing phases. It wasn't me (note to trolls). The end to the story is, there will always be those who circumnavigate.

[@edc1569]

Not many cars with two type 2 sockets...

[@MarkHewitt1978]

Good summary. I use the exact plug you showed in the video that says Suitable for Electric Vehicle Charging. I have a PHEV and at 10A it fully charges it in 4 hours, which I never need so turn it down to 4.5A which charges in 9 hours, which is still faster than I need. Including the plug I got it all installed for about £150, not including the EVSE. A proper Type 2 socket install was pushing £1000

[@gingleb3792]

Hi how did you install it? Spur from an internal plug in the house? I'm yhij9ing of doing it myself. Also do you know 5he name of the plug you purchased?

[@stevespoor6567]

Does it have to be protected by a DOUBLE POLE Type A 30ma RCD? When on PME / TNCS arrangement Does it require an o-pen device, earth rod or isolating transformer? Does it need surge protection?

[@patdbean]

If you are on an overnight tariff like octopus GO, that gives you 4 hours 00:30-04:30) at as cheap rate (12p per kWh ) getting a FULL charge on a full EV, say 60kw/h leaf, is going to take many days.

[@NicolasRaimo]

if on a PME is an earth rod required or a PEN fault system?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Either but not both..

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

My understanding is that nearly all new ev chargers have pen fault protection these days. It will be stated in its specifications.

[@peterigrenyi9176]

Love the comments.... Ive been charging for 2 years from normal socket, completely disregarding manufacturers concerns of the standard socket not being able to handle close to maximum load for 12 hours a day 7 days a week. Its only a house fire im risking here, who cares?! Longer you do it more likely it is to actualy cause trouble.

[@nigelwann6185]

Great, so when my brother-in-law visits in his EV for the weekends and doesn't even turn up with any beer but eats our food as well and immediately plugs in his remote charger to my outdoor socket to use my electricity for his car i can now put a stop to the freeloader by quoting regulation 722.55.101 and British standard code 1363-2. I mean, we don't visit friends houses and syphon off diesel for free mileage while there.

[@jakebarrow2000]

What about PEN fault and I'm pretty sure an ev charger has to be a dedicated circuit

[@jakebarrow2000]

I fitted on of these ev safe sockets with a pen fault detector and on its own circuit as I thought that was the only allowed way?

[@alunroberts1439]

So if I have heavy loads such as in catering or 3kw heaters would EV sockets be good to use.

[@pjeaton58]

Use commando sockets - no fuse to get hot !

[@johnkeepin7527]

And can one (legally) install one at a house which is on a looped supply, typically two houses on one service cable from the DNO, which is looped on to the one next door? I know they do require independent service cables to each house for full-on EV chargers, on account of the continuous load. If that’s the case, it could be a reason to do it that way for occasional use, rather than having to split the service arrangement via the DNO and negotiating with next door for the groundwork etc.

[@squakkers]

Would a dedicated EV socket not need an RCD Type-B at the origin and surge protection and an O-Pen or Matt-E device on a PME system still? At the end of the day, the EV is still a massive exposed-conductive part, there are sensitive electronics which could be fried if there's overvoltage and the neutral could drop out on a PME system. Don't these situations have to be considered?

[@gino2465]

I use my 7.4kw ev charger as a 13 amp charger. I do this when my solar production is low due to poor light.

[@njipods]

i have that exact BG outlet. The switch couldn't take the current and failed

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Yes the switch is always a weak point, that's why the ev versions are switchless. I believe..

[@Ben-gm9lo]

Thanks guys. I watched it thinking 'of course you can, that is how I charge my Tesla!'. Now I am more enlightened and I will be changing my outside socket for an EV one! I have it spurred off my ground floor ring main. No other spurs from this ring, so I 'think' I am compliant... I appreciate your inciteful content.

[@guffermeister]

If it's a spur you are limited to 20A from a ring final assuming it's done in 2.5mm T&E cable, and not subject to de-rating requirements.

[@Ben-gm9lo]

@@guffermeister Thanks Michael, kind of you to share. That sounds good then, I used 2.5 T&E, through the wall with ducting at a slight angle (down to outside). I intend to fit the Masterplug socket which has a 16A RCBO in it and my granny lead is limited to 10A for my Tesla. I don't believe there are any other spurs off this ring main. I am quite familiar with my domestic electrics having been here for over 20 years and I changed my fuse box for a (then) modern consumer unit in 2007 (council inspector came and signed the system off).

[@tomcardale5596]

@@Ben-gm9lo you can have as many spurs as you like, just limited to one single or double socket outlet on each spur (without additional measures). And unless there's something funny going on you don't need a 16A RCBO either. There's an argument for taking a potential PEN fault in to consideration though.

[@Ben-gm9lo]

@@tomcardale5596 Thanks Tom, most kind of you. I feel happier now then, just the one socket on this spur.

[@TheEulerID]

Those rules are about the installation of dedicated EV charge points. They do not apply to householders who happen to use an existing, and convenient 13A socket (at least in the sense of there not being a law under which a householder might be prosecuted, although there could be a civil liability). Not wise, of course, especially with the vulnerabity to PEN faults, and the danger of overheating with a continuous load, so can never be deemed as recommended usage, but every EV sold in the country will probably be equipped with some sort of charging lead with a 13A plug for occasional use.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

PEN fault is for TNCS.. Depends on your earthing system, TT would be fine..

[@TheEulerID]

@@MikeGleesonazelectrics True, but the vast majority of UK domestic installations at TN-C-S, and I will bet that hardly any householders ever give it a thought.

[@ambassadorfromreality1125]

Why would you want to charge at 10 amps anyway? On situation is when you have a solar array which can provide about 10 amps and you are not in a hurry. Charging at 30 amps means you are importing and paying for 60 percent of your fuel when it could all be free. As far as I know chargers don't allow you to select your charge rate. As far as I know the Zappi does this probably others as well but the savings for automatic control over manual sun is shining so I will charge are not really worth it if your circumstances allow

[@TheEulerID]

An obvious example is when visiting a friend or relative and you want a top-up charge and they do not have a EV charging point.

[@BobBobOnYouTube]

What about people who don’t have off road parking? How will they charge their electric vehicles?

[@Brian-om2hh]

You can't fill up with petrol at home, yet you're ok with having a petrol car.......

[@BobBobOnYouTube]

@@Brian-om2hh Exactly.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Probably a bev is not right for them at the moment, hybrid possibly.

[@smd-tech]

I used the 10a granny charger that came with my cayenne phev for 6 months every night and it melted the live pin on a 2 year old schneider ultimate socket. The garage was on its own ring, no faults on that circuit the socket was just not up to the job. The porsche branded charger came with a 3 phase commando lead that lets it charge at 16a using only 1 phase so I changed that to a 32a single phase commando plug.

[@thalesofmiletus2966]

Unlucky. I’ve used my Hyundai charger on my Kona every few nights for 15 months with no problems whatsoever. I don’t do it now. Why? Because Scottish Power have hiked their prices to 31p per kWH whilst ChargePlace Scotland charges 15p per kWh and £1.60 connection fee. There are 22kW EVSE’s near me which are free.

[@smd-tech]

@@thalesofmiletus2966 you are lucky, at leats 50% of the times i have tried to use a chargeplace scotland charger they have been faulty. It has put me right off going full ev, until the charging network is fit for purpose.

[@ardaz1987]

The obvious reason for using a granny charger for my situation is to charge my car as close to free as I can for 8 months of the year. It takes advantage of solar panels by charging at such a low rate that its within my solar output limits and therefore the car (plus house base load) doesn't go over the incoming solar limit. Whenever it does go over the solar panel generation current due to cloud cover the extra energy is mopped up by the battery using solar power mainly - or by cheap rate electricity in my battery from my off peak rate. I use my 7kw charger for those 3 or 4 months that my PV can't cope, obviously its done during off peak. This way gives me an annual car fuel cost of less than £100. Yes the outlay is initially big but the rewards are also big.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

That's exactly what I do, use the granny lead just to soak up surplus pv power. Another way tho is to reduce the charging current at the car to 16 or 8A. If the car has that option of course..

[@PeterStaniforth]

I'm thinking of buying a Nissan Leaf to get me the 8 miles to and from work every day, but I'd only be able to use our outside 13A socket and a 30ft extension. I believe I'll only need to charge the car once a week so charging from Saturday evening to Monday morning would be ok. But if I did that would it be a fire hazard?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Extension lead not allowed.. you will meed to get the ev socket fitted within reach of your granny lead I'm afraid altho I have used one myself in the past it's a strict no no..

[@drlodge]

It’s a good solution for plug in hybrids as they have a much smaller battery.

[@neilohara6880]

I’m I ok to charge my ev from an external plug socket if the external sock has been spured?

[@charlesuk5358]

Probably a dumb question, but with this "socket" also function as a regular socket for say a lawn mower or pressure washer?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Can't see why not, if it can charge an ev it can do anything! Even a 3kw heater..

[@riley881]

I've been using my 10a charger for over 2 years no issues charges in 4 hrs paid £70 for 10 metre

[@samharper598]

As someone who is new to installing ev chargers what I find difficult is the paperwork notifying the DNO. Is there a video you have that runs through that?

[@fractalofgod6324]

Why do you have to notify the dno?

[@TeamSimpsonRacing]

Great video as always. In another video you said that an electrician has a moral duty to investigate the rick of pen faults for an outside socket installation. It would have been good if you spoke about that. Also if its an EV dedicated socket, then should it not be on its own circuit?

[@deang5622]

But it is not an EV dedicated socket. It's a 13 amp standard socket outlet in to which any mains appliance on a standard plug can be plugged in. What's the worst that can happen? 1. The RCD trips and cuts the power off. 2. The circuit breaker and trips the power off.

[@TeamSimpsonRacing]

@@deang5622 I'm guessing you don't know what a PEN fault is, as neither the MCB or the RCD will save your life!

[@deang5622]

@@TeamSimpsonRacing Yes I do know what PEN fault is. I am not convinced the car body would become live in the event of a PEN fault.

[@TeamSimpsonRacing]

@@deang5622 you can't fully understand it if you don't think the car would become live.

[@deang5622]

@@TeamSimpsonRacing 1. It only applies to MPE installations. 2. How many PEN faults does a property experience over the course of say 20 years? None. It's an extremely unlikely event. 3. It depends on how the battery charger inside the car has been designed.

[@marklola12]

I have put a waterproof outdoor socket that has a cable with a RCD plug at the end which I out through a hole into the wall so I can plug it into a internally wall socket and use that to charge my car a bit, I don't leave it on charge and go to bed, I get cheap electric from 21.30 pm so usually charge so I get 35 to 40 mile range or just enough to cover my 32 Mile daily commute to work and back I got it from toughleads and it's perfect for my needs, I would love a proper charger as I could fully charge in the cheap hours but they are way too expensive to warrant it and I worked it out and it's not worth the cost for me

[@CAR_SOLUTIONS]

What core size cable do they use? 1.5MM²?

[@thabisodube]

What if you use a juice boost 2 charger

[@YorkshireHillbilly]

Great video... I understand the regulations are there to protect the simple man but, nuts to that... My 25-meter extension with a double IP66 socket on the end works just fine for overnight charging on my EV6 *it's plugged into a socket in my garage which has a separate consumer unit than my house. It's also hooked up to Home Assistant monitoring for spikes in temperature, current and tampering by local yobs who might try turn it off or plug something else in. Home Assistant will turn on my floodlights and also send a rather loud notification to my Mobile phone. (yes, Home Assistant has its own UPS and a GSM backup as does my router and mesh WiFi so it's never going to break)

[@tomcardale5596]

That sounds like a perfectly sensible solution. I just came here because you said "never" at the end and that amused me - the Titanic was supposed to never be able to sink after all ;)

[@YorkshireHillbilly]

I'd like to retract my previous statement of "it's"never going to break" and replace it with "it shouldn't ever break" 😂

[@ej5376]

Is there a 3 pin plug on the 25 metre double socket IP66? This is what I’m trying to do at my office at the moment, so it effectively just becomes a long extension cable you’d find in a house, just with better sockets

[@YorkshireHillbilly]

Yup. Straight into a smart plug in the garage.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

​@YorkshireHillbilly you're using a smart plug to run a 10A load constantly? I hope it's a reputable and reliable one. Many of them have current limits lower than 10A.

[@bradwheeler2116]

Been doing it for 4 years now no problem at all

[@TingkatMangkuk]

@@bradwheeler2116 no melting?

[@MUFCSINCE90]

Will a brand new 73 plate MG4 SE SR come with any charging cables ?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

My 22 plate mg4 SE came with both granny lead and charger leaf. The V2L lead I had to buy separately if you want one.

[@guffermeister]

Another item to increase the chances of fires going back to the last video. A sustained 10A load on a heavily loaded ring final circuit with a broken leg or one where the circuit hasn't been de-rated properly. BS1363A sockets are only rated to their max current (13A) for something like 20 mins. I suspect the EV requirement is to improve the thermal properties of the outlet to cope with the sustained load. And a BS1363A dual socket outlet limit is 20A, not 26A as you might expect. I would only feel comfortable putting them on their own dedicated circuit. Perhaps the IET will put that in the 19th edition of the regs? If you don't do many miles, don't have an EV electric tariff and have a smaller domestic solar system then it could work well for a PHEV, which others have already commented with although the number of PHEV owners who do plug them in is minimal which is why Toyota dropped that from the Prius. As others have said, there is a large whoha about having pen protection etc - this is part of Mode 2 charging - there should be in the control box which is in line with the charge lead.

[@rivkahlevi6117]

Yeah. I use a plug-in kiln which draws nearly 13A for hours at a time. Found out the hard way that BS1363A sockets don't necessarily like that. It totally destroyed a socket without blowing the fuse in the plug. Was very lucky it didn't burn my studio down.

[@therealdojj]

Guy a few doors down does, he's got his extension cord dangling out the window every time I walk past Plus in the States you can buy a plug from the local DIY store to wire into your house and plug into your car, it's the same plug as the cooker 😯

[@therealdojj]

@William Tell but they can only charge at a slow rate, the same as a plug-in that gives you a trickle charger There was an explanation on This Old House just the other day

[@Andy_B_W]

Some very interesting comments and thanks for an excellent video. I have learnt something.. So what is the safest way to charge via a 3 pin plug?? Using an EV rated socket fitted with 16A DP RCBO., and running the socket directly from a Type B 16A MCB consumer unit.. Would i be right? cheers

[@jasonwatson9011]

OK the regulations prohibit the extension lead. Unfortunately the car owner will elect to use one anyway if needed as they operate outside the regulations (I drive by one on site). On a side note years ago we used to get sockets burn out in kitchens due to deep fat fryers with 3kw rating (when they were popular). We still do get tumble driers burning out plugs, sockets and switches. I can't think why but were starting to get a lot of sockets burnt due to overheating in garages, with at the time of the visit no obvious cause. (Wonder what's causing that?) ;-)

[@edc1569]

10A is fine all day long, you'll even get away with extension leads most of the time

[@RandomNoob]

@@edc1569 Yep, I have used a regular 13A external socket with a extension lead for the last 2 years, I wouldn't do this with some cheap store bought one though the one I use I made myself with quality plug and socket and and suitable cable to easily handle 13A

[@arcadia1701e]

If it's on an rcbo. Yes.

[@TheRocky3211]

Yes

[@jamesbowskill362]

YES you can !!!!! BUT you will also NEED 'a lot' of waiting time ......probably around two days to charge the normal small car..................provided you dont do a LUTON AIRPORT..........

[@crazycrab8578]

if not why not,

[@Nujja1967]

Useful & succinct - Thanks!

[@niceguy235uk1]

Yes you can

[@Dog-whisperer7494]

Isn’t this why some EV manufacturers supply a granny charger with there EVs such as Tesla . And I have never seen or heard of a 13amp socket outlet percivicly designed for EV charging. Great video as always Joe. 👍

[@johnburns4017]

Confusing: A 13A outlet restricted to 10A? How? Mode 2 charging requires an in-line box of electronics in the middle of the charging cable.

[@edc1569]

Old 1950s socket standard didn’t for see EV charging where you’d have a heavy load for hours and hours in high ambient temperatures.

[@NickToland]

Yes but the real question is, Should you use a 13A socket! Great content as always! 👍

[@YorkshireHillbilly]

As long as you're putting in more than you take out every day, it doesn't matter what charging speeds you're using right?

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I can see people making "special" plugs🤣. You buy two identical plugs, remove the live pin and fuse carrier. And replace it with another neutral pin. And hey presto, you've made yourself a 32 amp plug, without a fuse. Now you can charge at 32 amps! And burn your house down 🤔🤣

[@thalesofmiletus2966]

People have been fiddling their electrics for decades. Bypassing meters, using nails instead of fuses, overloading sockets etc etc but looking through the stats very few houses in comparison to the amount who fiddle have actually burnt down.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

@@thalesofmiletus2966 you are probably correct. I actually made one of these "dangerous" plugs for a specific use case. It was just for short term use, and only I could use it! But I added the "fire warning", just to discourage people from doing it themselves.

[@TheBearbertie]

Cut 13A plug off granny charger and fit 16A ip67 commando plug? More robust

[@edc1569]

Be cautious, the good ones have temperature monitoring of the plug, you can’t just snip that away and expect it to work.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

I think the granny lead control box will still regulate the current draw to 10A, I may be wrong never done it..would probably invalidate the warranty in any case.

[@asimsiddiqui221]

Seems to me like you are a lawyer reading the clauses of the legislation of a country. only the expert lawyers can understand.

[@jimwoods293]

YES

[@JasperJanssen]

Obvious: you can, but shouldn’t.

[@thattoolguy9432]

Those 2.3kw charge points are handy for PHEV's .. we fitted them in the garages on a new build complex, a lot of the new home owners had PHEV's .. about time the good old 13a plug and socket got de-rated.. good video Joe

[@edc1569]

They’re just sockets with EV written on them

[@peterconnolly4608]

Stay with the trusted method ,fuel goes a long way ,💯

[@edc1569]

lol

[@andysims4906]

And because it goes along way we don’t require a petrol pump in our garden

[@andybrown3715]

And if you are happy to fund Russia and Saudi Arabia then knock yourself out! With EV and Solar its free!

[@peterconnolly4608]

@@andysims4906 no fuel ,no life , ie no road tar no soap no plastic, etc ,how would we exist,

[@chrispack3131]

And pay a lot for it!

[@picobyte]

Yes. But it allready takes ages via three phase 400V 25000W to charge. Electric cars vs delivery of energy are very bad! Delivering natural gas or oil to homes takes cheap plastic pipes or a single delivery of oil per winter. Bringing that energy via electricity takes huge, very expensive cables and sub stations with their relative big energy losses and all the losses at gas/coal fired power stations! As wind&solar are a big fat lie!

[@efixx]

😫

[@tyronenelson9124]

I just hope that the majority of ev owners do realise that there is a new law on the way regulating the times that you are allowed to charge an ev, look into it.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Complete and utter nonsense....... Instead of suggesting WE look into it, why didn't *you* post a link to where you found this codswallop? Like many non EV owners, you have clearly misunderstood the issue.... The *WHOLE* idea of regulating EV charging, is to try to get people to charge during the night hours. There are two reasons for this. 1. It is when the UK's grid has the most capacity available. And 2. It is also the cheapest time to buy electricity on cheap rate, as it costs around a 5th of the normal day rate. Do you even know or understand what off-peak tariffs are?

[@TheEulerID]

No there is not, although all new dedicated EV charging points must be "smart". I know of no regulation barring householders from using existing 13A sockets as the regs apply to new, dedicated EV charging facilities. If there is a change to the law that applies to householders using existing sockets, then it has received zero publicity to those it affects, namely ordinary householders.