CAR vs BICYCLE: Organic Transit ELF 2FR - Velomobile / Passenger E-Bike

A day with the Organic Transit ELF 2FR model. We randomly made friends and spread the word regarding this amazing new technology!
Check out the day of fun!

[@davehyde6207]

Well presented and very practical machine,ideal for single parents or anyone for that matter...

[@michaelpinson345]

I like it looks like a lot of fun, Michael

[@robcotter1181]

Excellent description and lots of fun!

[@ShermanSitter]

From the man himself! Thank you for the nice words! :)

[@philadamsmindiarobin7658]

Fantastic, fun, & full of good stuff! :-) Mindia

[@ShermanSitter]

what is this, a spam account? I better see some cat videos soon! :)

[@mindiarobin2053]

@@ShermanSitter Lol just saw this. Cat video request hahaha! Meow from Jasper Cat.

[@abbaby555]

looks like you had a lot of fun making this video, good job. really liked this video

[@ShermanSitter]

abbaby555 - Thank you! Yes, I have fun doing most things, or if not, i usually stop doing them. :)

[@philadamsmindiarobin7658]

YES!!! So much fun. I am Mindia Robin... the camerawoman Lol!

[@paxwallacejazz]

It's an ELF party

[@lauratibbles6598]

Well I have been checking these out and have seen several and of all that I have seen I keep coming back to this one initially my thoughts were kind of high priced but when you factor in what you are getting and the frame weight the lights signals and your solar panels and batteries well it don’t sound so high priced anymore I keep coming back the the ELK 2 FR I’m going to go see this next time I’m on the east coast I’m excited

[@ShermanSitter]

I went through the same process! Are you in a major city? As a commuter in Los Angeles, I can give you a few notes that no one else will tell you. It is an absolute pleasure and REALLY fun to ride. With that said, some people don't like it in "their way" on weekdays during commutes, but weekends everyone laughs and smiles. It doesn't take potholes well at all and can be a major target for theft (contrary to the PR which is greatly misleading on thefts and risks) so make sure it is well guarded or protected. I looked at all of them and this ended up being my decision as well. I just took it for about 15 miles last weekend and barely used the motor and the battery was still FULL when I got home! It is SO efficient for a 200 lb bicycle! :) I was pedaling way more than using the throttle which was just for getting started here and there and some extra juice on a hill now and then...plus it was sunny outside and the solar panel was getting 30 - 40 watts as i rode...but i do bicycle commute about 7000 miles a year. My hamstrings get sore on this though since those are recumbent specific muscles. Overall, worth it, but there are some things to know going in.

[@lauratibbles6598]

Thank you so much for you information I really appreciate it I live in the midwest, St. Louis, mo so I’m going to check and see if there are any carriers in closer to my area that may carry this bike ELF that is closer than the east coast .....again thank you appreciate it very much

[@popeyegordon]

You may find one used for around 3K but the new ones have more upgrades. I have hears of exactly two thefts with 1000 ELFs sold. One was recovered, the one not recovered had not been locked by the owner. The motor key removes and this is so large it won't fit in a regular van. Kids can't hide it in the bushes. In 4 years I have saved $12,000 by getting rid of my car. Exercise is vital and this is the most fun and lowest impact way of getting it.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@popeyegordon Most of what you say is useful, but the line about 2 stolen and 1 recovered is not only corporate bull $#!t from Organic Transit, but it is damaging to the prospective owners and lowers alerts to security risks. Please stop propagating that lie. You have a lot to offer in what you say, the ELF is a great vehicle, but please please please stop parroting that marketing crap. It does nothing but ultimately damage our cause and the safety and security of ELF owners.

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter That is based on actual information in our huge 600 strong OT ELF owners group on Facebook. I don't understand why you call facts "marketing crap". If you are a member please PM me in that private group so I know your name. I have not seen you participate in the largest inside information source available. Do you count that 3rd theft attempt where stupid kids tried to push away an ELF with the parking brake engaged? They did not get far before giving up. What is the case number and city location of any particular theft you are aware of? I'd like to share any verifiable information you have with the group. If you can prove there have been more thefts than our group is aware of I will correct or retract my comments.

[@dreybayless7998]

Nice wheels where can I get my self one of this ??

[@ShermanSitter]

Thank you! It is becoming more difficult now that the company has gone out of business. They are still out there if you keep an eye out on ebay or craigslist.

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter The best site for listings is free - AnyoneCanBike.com

[@surendrarai9450]

I would like to buy such a bike in India.

[@ShermanSitter]

I wish it was possible! They are no longer sold here in the USA either anymore. :(

[@fifer4758]

Is this vehicle useful for folks with hip injuries and can't peddle? I used to ride a lot but can't peddle anymore because of problems with my back. I recently got an electric conversion kit for my bike so that I can still ride it and enjoy it. Thanks for posting your video.

[@ShermanSitter]

I'm not an expert on such health issues, but I can tell you these facts: A) There is a throttle, so technically you don't even have to pedal at all! B) It is a recumbent, so it affects the hamstrings and gluteus muscles more than a normal bicycle. If you are not sure how it will feel you can always test a recumbent style bicycle and see what muscles you are engaging.

[@fifer4758]

Thank you.

[@kayakplayer]

After trying the recumbent and checking with your orthopedist, I'ld suggest thinking about the terrain and the routes you may want to take. Steeper hills may require pedaling to make it to the top. Most fitness sites with map features can tell you what the elevation changes will be on a route.

[@fifer4758]

Thankyou

[@rohadtanyad8908]

@@fifer4758 i guarantee you that you can peddle. everyone can peddle. now you may not be able to pedal, but that is a different issue. to peddle means to sell, especially drugs or stolen items, or to promote ideas.

[@marielormand1809]

I would love to get one.Here in louisiana its warm a lot of months a year so good exercise.But i can't afford it. Thanks.

[@ShermanSitter]

Thank you for the comment, I can identify! The way I was able to justify it, is I save about $6500 a year by taking my bicycle vs driving a car. Perhaps if you start with a commuting bicycle setup and track your savings, then you can set savings goals and be ready when the time comes! (though you will use more gluteus maximus and possibly hamstring muscles with the ELF compared to bicycling since it is a recumbent style)

[@Mason-pq3kv]

@@ShermanSitter You could probably hire someone that knows how to weld bikes together I'm sure there are people in Louisiana that know how to do so and ask if they could build something of similar and ask how much it would cost. It's a CO that is why they are pricey, than would a singular person making one.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@Mason-pq3kv Good point! I'm a bit afraid of DIY...of course with that said, I'm currently preparing to DIY an electric bicycle conversion!

[@Mason-pq3kv]

@@ShermanSitter Its okay to be afraid of DIY. Its scary when something goes wrong and you're not sure what to do and no reddit forum or any of that type of stuff won't help you, or delete your post if you need the help. But that is all part of DIY. You learn from those mistakes! And learning is a lot better than having someone build it for you. I want to build it myself, but I dont have a welder and if I were to buy a welder; those are scary lol esp the prices. Not sure if it would just be cheaper having someone do it for me haha.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@Mason-pq3kv Yes! It doesn't help when you have anxious tendencies and you bicycle commute in West Los Angeles! But my DIY stuff is cheaper, but also I like that it can be very specific to what I want, which is usually the key for me. Let me know if you make any progress, it sounds like it could be extremely rewarding...in the long run!

[@sojereypaintdol4794]

Bring this product to my country the Philippines before china could copy it...very practical ...

[@ShermanSitter]

I wish! It should be everywhere! "This could be heaven for everyone" - Queen

[@videosforcatsanddogs214]

I want one! But the iris e-trike is also nice

[@ShermanSitter]

What do you like about the iris e-trike? I am not familiar with that one. the main thing i like about this one is the seat for my lazy friends who do not bicycle. :)

[@videosforcatsanddogs214]

@@ShermanSitter It is available with 1000 watts direct drive motor that allows for regeneration of energy instead of using the brakes. Also it looks sleek, modern and cool. It also seems to come with all the features I can think of. Only negative is that it is made for one person only. But since I live in Europe I will probably buy a podride or a Biohybrid since 4 wheels are legal here.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@videosforcatsanddogs214 Thanks for the info! That sounds cool. For me, I do not need something that doesn't hold a passenger, but i definitely can see the appeal. For other transportation I have a whole stable of 'regular' bicycles! :)

[@popeyegordon]

@@videosforcatsanddogs214 E-bikes with more than 750 watts of power are not legal in the US on roads or trails. Regeneration on bikes is just a selling point with no actual worth. Bikes don't have enough mass momentum to get much out if it - all the energy is lost in friction and heat.

[@videosforcatsanddogs214]

@@popeyegordon They have a 750 watt version also. The main advantage of regeneration is that you save the brake pads. A heavy velomobile like these will chew through many brake pads every year.

[@ShimmySnail]

Who's the camerawoman? I've been trying to get my wife excited about ebikes. The Elf is the only thing that has caught her interest so far. Srlsy, not even the Townie Go! bikes, and she has a regular Townie. We need more women in gadgetry! Thank you, lady, to whomever you are. I know it's an uphill battle, I mean, what that's kind of the definition of "battle," but honestly, who does not think these are OSSIM?! You don't need to be lacking the last 1/8th of your 23rd chromosomal pair to love ebikes, or e-anything-else!

[@philadamsmindiarobin7658]

Lol! I am Minda Robin. So much fun working on this amazing project. So happy to inspire others.

[@harunyahyadotorg]

1, If it gets people away from cars and more eco friendly travel, (no petrol / gas / a lot less electric) why not give the 4 wheeler the same status as a cycling bike? 2, It makes sense, a 4 wheeler will look a lot nicer then a 3 wheeler. 3, Also it will be better, more comfortable, to ride in. 4, more shock absorption, (4 wheels better then 3) 5, more breaking ability, (4 wheels give more grip and breaking then 2) 6, more internal space (4 wheels will be wider on the inside, and more space for 2 passengers not just 1) 6, less external space. (the 3 wheels take more space, as the back wheel sticks out. 7, As long as its pedal power and 8, the electric top up doesn't take it faster then eg 45mph, so its doesn't go on motor ways (free ways). 9, Eventually light weight brush less motors and better battery power, 10, with a total solar power outer body, you increase solar gain capacity, and 11, can increase speed to maybe 50mph to decrease traffic and less carbon emissions. Also you will be more fitter due to the cycling. 12, total carbon body for light weight frame. 13, doors, to keep the rain out.

[@ShermanSitter]

That is a great idea! It always amazes me how many limitations there are on electric bicycles and pedal powered machines...as if they are the ones causing issues. You have my support for the 4 wheelers!

[@popeyegordon]

It is arbitrary to claim that '4 wheelers look better'. The fact is that our US ebike laws allow 3 wheels or less to avoid mandatory car insurance and license. 4 wheels are no more comfortable, we use 3 inch fat tires to smooth the ride.

[@andremartel828]

Saw that key switch issue in another video. Nice cheap way to fix the problem. The key switch should be relocated to the front as itis on a Better Bike. I like your inexpensive windows. OT should take a better look at the Better Bikes concept. I like the new lower or half hard door concept on the ELF. I see it as a safety feature. Still looking but right now out of work. Both OT and Better Bike have some good features. Price wise you get more with the Better Bike. Including battery upgrade to a total of 68V at 64 AH and with all the accessories for $10.3K loaded. The ELF doesnt even come close with options and price for the ELF loaded that tops out at $10K. Just watched a video of an ELF in the rain. That was not pretty. A Better Bike PEBL loaded has wiper blade, removable front weather deflector, and a heater for winter weather. Already comes with zip up doors/windows/hard trunk lid. The thing is BB was designed for New England weather, and not Southern states. That is why you need higher current rating since batteries drain is higher in cold weather. If I lived in the South the ELF would be OK. While the OT ELF looks like you can put pedal extension for those like me with extra wide feet like 9 1/2 HH. (all my bikes have extensions, Foot does not rub on crank) The better Bike PEBL may be too constricting before adding the extension in comparison. Before I sink that kind of money in either one I'll have to dry fit myself inside of one. That will make a huge difference. BTW. I highly recommend anyone to put at least a one inch pedal extension on their regular bikes and try them out. They are available in SS or Chro-moly. BTW. Some SS extensions with bend like cheap pedals. Buy the US made Chro-moly type. Its only $15 a set of one inch, Try it on the ELF. Your feet and legs will thank me.

[@ShermanSitter]

What a great comment! So informative and detailed. I definitely agree that the PEBL is MUCH better for inclement weather. Honestly, the main reason I went with the ELF is A) I'm in southern California and B) I like the component choices a bit better, especially in the drivetrain.

[@andremartel828]

You see my point when doing an online comparison of components and standard options between the two. Hope to see the PEBL next month in Mass. The ELF front optional shelf is larger in area than the PEBL. Indicates a longer leg room. But I like the wood dash on the PEBL. Still comparing.

[@popeyegordon]

PEBL is a copycat of the ELF which has had 400 improvements in the last 4 years including moving the key up front along with the entire electronics bay and battery tray. Doors offer no safety whatsoever, they are thin vinyl fabric. But these are the safest bikes in the world due to all around crumple zones. The PEBL is a better deal right now only because of the low introductory price that loses them money on every vehicle.

[@popeyegordon]

Now that the PEBL is in production the weight problem has become too evident. Wood dash is a knee banging weight liability. Rear hatch with gas shock adds 8 pounds. Owners are reporting the thing is too hot in the winter to wear winter clothing, wait until summer gets here. They already raised their price $1000 and it would have to top 10K to stay in business. but the lack of hill climbing ability may doom this vehicle, it needs a 1000 watt motor which would violate federal law.

[@popeyegordon]

Update on the issue with the PEBL being under powered - they put a switch on the dash for what they have to call 'off road mode'. It doubles motor power to 1500 watts, illegal under US federal ebike laws, illegal in all public roads and trails without a licence plate, insurance and vehicle registration. They were desperate, the thing was too heavy and under powered. They are taking a risk but I don't blame them. It remains to be seen if the motor and controller will survive without over heating when this is configured to pump 1500 watts through a 750 watt rated motor. If they get away with this for a year or more with no legal repercussions the ELF may copy them and be an even faster vehicle since it is 40 pounds lighter.

[@foxtrot2320]

you should try and take a look at the podride, its not out yet but they said it would be out somewhere in 2017

[@ShermanSitter]

Thanks for the tip! The podride is great! I do like the ELF mostly for passenger comfort. I'm glad to see all these options though. The more the better!

[@popeyegordon]

The 4 wheels of the podride makes it impractical in the US, it would need licence registration and insurance to comply to federal law.

[@pdelmercado]

How do you secure this vehicle? Is theft a problem? I'm considering purchasing one.

[@ShermanSitter]

Great question! Theft is definitely a problem. (though the company will tell you otherwise) Remember, people even steal motorcycles and this is 3x lighter. Here is what I recommend: 1) keep it in a garage. AND/OR 2) get a very heavy duty chain lock. Not just a chain, but one of the heavyweight chains designed for motorcycles. Also, add additional locks and alarms as desired. :) 3) find a way to lock it down if you have to park it outside. 4) get a cover (golf cart covers work). I have seen several reported as stolen, but if you take these measures you will limit your risk. Many people buy them in less urban areas, so the company and some proponents severely underestimate the risks. My ELF was recently vandalized. I think they might have been trying to steal it. I've only had it for 9 months.

[@pdelmercado]

DFTA (Don't Feed The Animals) Thank you! I can lock it up at home ok, but I'm concerned about leaving it outside when I'm shopping or at an appointment.

[@popeyegordon]

Not a problem for me. All bike security hardware applies. Lock to something with a cable or chain. It charges while you shop. You can also just use a motorcycle disk brake lock.

[@thelimitlessexperience2496]

Popeye Gordon oh hello Popeye. Long time no see.

[@popeyegordon]

Patricia - Theft is not a problem. Of the first 1000 ELFs sold, only two have been stolen. One was recovered and the one not recovered was not locked by its owner. Just use sensible precautions.

[@lovingperson3195]

I need this

[@popeyegordon]

Your sun visors look bulky and cumbersome. I used 80% tint cling window treatment from Gila to tint my side windows, rear window and front visor area. The front comes down almost to eye level so you can raise your head just a bit at night to block the blinding headlight problem.

[@popeyegordon]

Note that a year later all the cling tint is completely intact and clinging properly and yet instantly removable with no residue.

[@deformerzsyko9019]

Can you send it to Bangladesh?

[@ShermanSitter]

The company is out of business unfortunately and none are available. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

[@popeyegordon]

Shipping costs would be very high. The company is up for auction, it is not totally gone. Your country really needs to make your own version with affordable local labor.

[@magicalthinkingbarbie8850]

I feel like it people could forget about consumerism and economic growth. They would realize you don't have to ride your "Elf" every single day. Its a paradigm shift!!people.

[@ShermanSitter]

Thank you for this comment, I agree! I notice how people are still made fun of for eating vegan, riding a bicycle, or wanting to reduce in other ways. With that said, I know for example that bacon lovers react so strongly because they are constantly told how bad the thing they love is for them, hence the overreaction in the opposite direction. Psychology is tough. :)

[@popeyegordon]

We don't have to ride it for consumerism, we can ride it for fun, exercise and recreation like visiting a park while causing no co2 emissions.

[@marvinmatamoros396]

Huuuuu...es una maravilla...

[@ShermanSitter]

Si! Estoy en accuerdo! :)

[@armarranemesis6232]

Fly over why?

[@dewidavies6185]

Packed in driving. Burn fat not fuel.

[@marijkedeheij3961]

Is this ELF already on THE market in Holland?

[@ShermanSitter]

Unfortunately, the company went out of business a year or so ago, so I doubt any of them made it to Europe. It was a small company in the USA, but just didn't do well when gas prices dropped. :(

[@popeyegordon]

A few were exported to the EU but they had to be modified to run on much less power and pedal activation. Takes all the fun out of it. The EU has several new sellers of these designs that conform to EU laws.

[@NoobixCube]

@@popeyegordon the 750W motor in the ELF is considered 750 at peak output, while all European regulations are based on the continuous rating, so the difference isn’t as great as you might think. While I don’t know its continuous rating (and getting information out of whoever owns OT now is like getting blood from a stone, they never reply to my emails), I would not be surprised if it’s closer to 250W. To put it another way, what the Europeans call a 250W e-bike motor might be more like 650-700W, if sold in America. There’s no straight conversion because the continuous rating is entirely at the manufacturer’s discretion, what they consider the motor to be able to safely operate at, indefinitely, and not all motors are created equal, as I’m sure you’re aware. I’ve seen some 200W continuous motors claim as much as 1000W peak. From what I’ve seen, Canada’s regulations cap wattage at 500W peak, so if the US’s 750W motor doesn’t quite fit in the European limits, I’m sure any ELFs made for the Canadian market would be fine in Europe. There was even briefly a reseller operating in New Zealand, where their limit is 300W continuous, and I think they were selling the “750W” US models. Frankly, wattage is the worst way to describe real utility of a motor, not only because of the different conventions, but because motors of the same wattage can have wildly different characteristics. If a bike has an electronically enforced speed limit for the assist, who cares how hard the motor pushes to get it there? Governments should be looking to scrap arbitrary wattage limits.

[@popeyegordon]

@@NoobixCube You are incorrect. The US motor wattage is based on continuous ratings. ELF owners typically see our watt meters register 1500 to 1800 watts on hills. Wattage is the ONLY way the standards are set. The motor controllers are programmed to limit speeds, otherwise speeds could go much higher on downhill runs. Canadians can reach your max legal speed of 20MPH on lighter ebikes with 500 watts, 750 gives us the ability to use heavier bikes and fat tire bikes like the ELF and still reach top speed. The continuous ratings are most used. They are determined on a bench at the threshold of over heating of the motor.

[@marielormand1809]

Maybe adding bubble wrap for insulation and sound.

[@ShermanSitter]

I never thought about sound insulation materials. That is a great idea!

[@popeyegordon]

No, no point. Every ounce is critical to being able to pedal this. Insulation is pointless in a vehicle with open doors and no floor. It is not very loud, amateur video cameras have poor sound recording are not a valid way to judge the quietness of the ride. The ELF has a quiet gearless motor but the new competing vehicle called the PEBL has a screaming loud geared motor.

[@ShermanSitter]

Also, the vinyl "doors" I added are great for sound but also keep it quite warm...at least for California winters. :) I do agree with Popeye Gordon though that the ELF is not too noisy except for potholes maybe, but that's tough to avoid with a 160 pound tricycle encased in ELF material! I like the bubble wrap idea, but also possibly some foam covered in a thin gauge vinyl? Hmmm...I added that to the floor of my bicycle trailer and the dash of the ELF and it took care of almost all the noise.

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter The only sheeting I might consider worthwhile is foil backed bubble wrap insulation with the foil on the inside only. It is reasonably cheap, water proof and easy to work with. Simple double sided tape would hold it but make a permanent non-removable mess if the liner was removed. It could go right over any wires to hold them in place and protect them. As you know the original wire tie pads come loose. The reflective sliver look would make your ELF seem like a space capsule.

[@marielormand1809]

What about adding two wheels to the back for stability.

[@ShermanSitter]

Velomobile manufacturers have experimented with 3 wheel and 4 wheel variants. The 'normal' (delta) 3 wheel arrangement with 2 wheels in the back and 1 in the front tends to have more disadvantages. Although it is easier to steer this way, there are issues with stability and even nose diving in turns. Most designers use the "tadpole" design (2 in the front) for these reasons. Though the ELF has a HUGE turning radius, the overall benefits are worth it.

[@popeyegordon]

The ELF has such a wide wheel base it is hard to roll, all reports of rollovers but one I have heard about were when people were intentionally being reckless and they admitted they deserved it. 4 wheel bikes have to be licensed if they have a motor in the US.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@popeyegordon Very true, the ELF is pretty solid! Nevertheless, I am VERY cautious around turns. I don't to find out how secure it is! :)

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter First your tire will begin to slowly lift off the pavement unless it is a sudden extreme move to avoid collision. Even then you may have the instinct to reduce the severity of your turn fast enough to prevent rolling over. I tested mine in an empty parking lot and could hear some tire screeching as I turned sharper, noise may depend on which tread or inflation level you are using so that is not an especially reliable warning. Go ahead and test your limits in a safe empty lot to get a feel for what the limits are, they are better than what I think you imagine them to be. Note it comes natural to many experienced riders to lean into a turn for more equal tire loading while changing the center of gravity to limit the lifting of a tire off the pavement.

[@ShermanSitter]

I'm starting to realize you're more of a risk taker than me! :) Good advice though!

[@Kadosk]

Qual a velocidade que atinge?

[@ShermanSitter]

ENGLISH: It is more limited by agility, not the motor or your legs. When I get above 32 KPH (20 mph), I start to feel like it is too fast. PORTUGESE: É mais limitado pela agilidade, não pelo motor ou pelas pernas. Quando chego acima de 32 KPH, começo a sentir que é muito rápido.

[@popeyegordon]

FYI - the ELF copycat car-bike from better.bike called the PEBL is no longer being made in the US. They are outsourcing to Germany. We need the artificially low price of gas to increase to get these vehicles back in higher demand.

[@ShermanSitter]

Hi Popeye Gordon! It's been a long time! It is my understanding the ELF is no longer in production. Is that true? I was sad to learn that.

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter As I stated to you elsewhere in this thread, they went bankrupt by borrowing too much money. The remains are up for auction. Still a good chance the brand can come back stronger than ever with the right investor.

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter News - OT was bought by Sol Micromobility late last year. No immediate events to announce but they plan to revive the brand in some fashion.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@popeyegordon That is GREAT news! Thank you for the update!

[@shyamapadadutta4277]

Please 1 bike india bheje

[@bokhans]

So now there is a proper electric car (Kandi) on the USA market that is cheaper than this bicycle. 🤔😬

[@ShermanSitter]

That's great! Finally! :)

[@popeyegordon]

Cheaper at the point of purchase only. Once you get it off the lot a car needs license, insurance. driver license, more maintenance than any bike. The purchase price of cars can not be compared to buying one of these bikes which delivers you from the never ending money pit of car expenses. Even a 3 to 4 year battery replacement is only a fraction of the cost and you get no exercise in cars. I have already saved $18,000 by getting rid of my car 6 years ago and using the ELF.

[@marielormand1809]

How about making it a little wider add another seat and bike assembly to make it a two person car .double the power double the fun.

[@ShermanSitter]

That would be fun too! Personally, it is already a bit too wide for city streets our here in Los Angeles though, so I'd actually like to see it more narrow.

[@popeyegordon]

No, that would destroy the usefulness of the ELF on public road bike lanes and trails. That's why you don't see such bikes on any trails except private property like resort islands where they are rentals.

[@ShermanSitter]

I agree, thank you Popeye for the additional info!

[@m9078jk3]

Is the trailer hitch standard on all ELF velomobiles?

[@ShermanSitter]

actually the trailer hitch is from the company who made the trailer. I highly recommend them, btw. "Wike" trailers...a guy in canada makes them. I bought an extra hitch since the main hitch I use on my commuter. i don't know if i'll ever need it for the ELF, but I liked the idea to have a semi truck with a payload and passengers. I think it would be hilarious if i picked someone up at the airport one time. :)

[@m9078jk3]

@@ShermanSitter Thanks for the information. I've seen some electric bike people who made solar tracking trailers to charge up the batteries on their bikes while they were riding. I suppose that would be possible for the ELF as well to have additional solar panels but on a external trailer.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@m9078jk3 That's a great idea! Honestly, even with the throttle, I find myself using myself to power it most of the time. In fact, some trips I gain energy by the time I get home, I can imagine what is possible with a solar trailer!

[@m9078jk3]

@@ShermanSitter With my electric bike on average I might use 300 watt-hrs of electrical power per hour of riding and I live in a hilly area. I've seen other people with solar panel bike trailers who have used about 3 -100 watt panels for their ebikes on a couple of KZbin videos.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@m9078jk3 Yeah, if you live in a hilly area you will definitely use the throttle on the ELF! That sucker is heavy! :)

[@debracrider3348]

Are you still selling them?

[@ShermanSitter]

Hello. I don't sell them, but the original company was bought out. I think they may still make them, but not sure. It is definitely not to scale of what it was initially.

[@user-pe3rk7mw4x]

it's hard to buy one and ship it to taiwan. so I just have to wait for my wife to arrive in the u.s.and buy me this bike.and ship it to me. I actually need it. for my daily commute to work

[@ShermanSitter]

I can sympathize to some extent. I live in California and these were made on the other side of the country...and now they went out of business. I hope you find a great velomobile one day!

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter OT is up for auction. If you join the owners group you'd know all the news. The pandemic is delaying the auction but we still think some smart business will buy and resurrect the design.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@popeyegordon Thank you for the information! It reminds me of when Saturn went away. I was sad then too, but I hope they keep it going this time! ...i guess i like 'different kinds of car companies' :)

[@popeyegordon]

@@ShermanSitter Yea I was a Saturn owner.....

[@richardbernsee7810]

Good if you have money for expensive toys :-)

[@ShermanSitter]

I do agree this is exorbitant, but people do spend tens of thousands on cars and then about $8000 every year after that on expenses, so in that case, it's a bargain. I hope that one day people realize that the air we are currently breathing is worth not being comfortable and convenient when commuting. Not to mention the oil wars that result and the torn up roads, and millions of injuries every year. ...but i'm biased. :)

[@davidlane1248]

@@ShermanSitter most people (aka, low to lower middle class) don't drop 8K on a vehicle in one go. They either buy used at a bargain or pay an initial down payment and then monthly Furthermore, the Elf and other velomobiles, electric or otherwise, do not offer the expedience or practically of a traditional vehicle simply due to how most cities are laid out- they're built for cars and trucks I'm a huge fan of velomobiles and environmentally friendly products, but let's not pretend that things like the Elf, Pebl and others are viable investments for the average person. They would, indeed, be expensive "toys" in that regard I plan on eventually getting one of these things, but felt like that needed to be said

[@ShermanSitter]

@@davidlane1248 Those are statistical averages from AAA. It is skewed slightly due to the truncated distribution on the low end, but includes lower and middle income brackets. People don't realize how much they are spending. Most are insidious costs.

[@ShermanSitter]

@@davidlane1248 Here is a video you might find interesting on the topic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHqXYX2AibqelZo

[@popeyegordon]

@@davidlane1248 You said it wrong. Wanting 'expedience' is exactly what got us into trouble. Abusing 3000 pound steel caged climate controlled high speed lounge couches in an age when we know that is not sustainable is stealing more than our fair share of resources from future generations. The ELF ends that theft. Used ones are around 3K.

[@primogonzales7549]

No flooring, get foot jammed and no windshield wiper, the motor's nut becomes loose.

[@popeyegordon]

No problems, advantages. We don't get feet jammed, we keep our feet on the pedals. There is no reason to remove our feet from the pedals while the bike is moving. We don't want flooring under the front section where pedals come close to the ground. We need maximum ventilation while exercising in this small space. Wipers ruin plastic windshields - we use carnauba wax to make the rain shed off. At a max speed of 20 mph the rain does not pile up like it can on cars. We do not have any persistent issues with motor nuts. Checking the tightness of key components is part of normal expected maintenance on all bikes. Troll harder - this effort of yours was neutralized by facts from an owner.

[@ShermanSitter]

Hi Primo! Thank you for the ideas! Have you had issues with the motor coming loose? That is a good call to check! I often get lazy with those maintenance type tasks. I agree on the flooring, I think about that sometimes. Not sure I would need a windshield wiper, but then, I live in Los Angeles. :)

[@popeyegordon]

Base price has risen to $8,950 No you don't need doors. No you can not do better buying a used car Yes it is very safe compared to any other bike No, theft is not a serious problem No it is not too wide for bike trails and lanes No you can not make one cheaper yourself Yes the solar panel works very well

[@ShermanSitter]

Thanks for the comment! Here are my responses to your questions: I got this one used. The new sticker price! $8500+ was way too steep for me! (not that it's not worth it) I like the doors I made! Not a must, but almost necessary I'd say. Patent pending! I agree on the used car, but I still have a car "just in case". ;) I agree it is safe. Very visible, which helps. Though it doesn't take turns and potholes very well. Theft is ALWAYS a serious problem. There are many reports of theft if you search the web. Bike lanes are iffy, trails don't always work. It actually feels quite cumbersome here in LA. Haha! My friend tried to talk me into making one myself...definitely agree with that one! Yes, the solar panel is great! A must, I'd say!

[@popeyegordon]

The car you keep just in case costs you several thousand dollars a year. In just a few years that cost would make up the difference for a new ELF. You can always rent one if needed.All cars have an environmental footprint as well. If you join the private Facebook ELF owners group of 500 you would already know about the aftermarket vinyl doors sold by an ELF owner. They roll all the way up and have a zipper. No, theft is NOT a serious problem with this particular vehicle. With close to 900 ELFs out there, only two have been stolen and one was recovered. The one not recovered was not locked by the owner. I have no problem with bike lanes or trails. Very few of the older trails are too narrow and all new trails have greater width. For example Seattle's trail width minimum is 10 feet and many are 12.

[@ShermanSitter]

Great points! Thank you!

[@popeyegordon]

Many of us post custom upgrades on Facebook. You could see my rear fender install, my custom window tinting, inner splash fenders, cargo net and the solar powered rear flasher light for example. I'd do a video if I had the camera. You know about carnauba wax for treating the windshield and solar panel, right?

[@ShermanSitter]

Sounds like you have a great engineering mind! That's a great note about the carnauba wax. The windshield is so sensitive, i'm guessing that protects it? How do you ensure that you don't scratch the windshield when you apply it? I have some microfiber clothes for cleaning but am afraid to do too much to them.

[@fudk_off1312]

I don't know why these new projects of transportation have to be extremely expensive. they would sell a lot more of them if the prices were lower. id rather just get a recumbent bike with a treadmill motor on it.

[@ShermanSitter]

I definitely sympathize, which is why I went used, but I can also see the company's perspective. Keep in mind for many years Toyota purposefully lost money on the Prius, but companies like that can afford to do that. Little start ups don't have the cash to burn and probably still start at a loss to boot.

[@elrickking9293]

Like every other product, it needs to be mass produced to get cheaper, many of the parts are made by hand (the frame is an example there are no machines) always the first units are expensive, also the motor, deep cycle battery and the solar system are a little bit expensive too.

[@popeyegordon]

Owning a car is vastly more expensive. An ELF is a one time investment with a guaranteed 3X return if you get rid of your car. Every ten years a car costs you $30,000, ten years of ELF expenses is $3000, a $27,000 difference plus the vital exercise and no pollution.

[@NickBandMjazzwoodtip]

Scared to see somthing like this lift off.Hope it dosent kill real bikes

[@ShermanSitter]

Like you, I find myself preferring to take my bicycles, but when I have a passenger, this vehicle is necessary. I've used it several times to give friends a lift somewhere! :)

[@popeyegordon]

ELF and PEBL are the SUVs of ebikes. And they let seniors get their exercise without relying on cars. Works for me.

[@369tesla6]

it's tricycle muppets not bicycle

[@ShermanSitter]

Ha ha! Good point! It does have three wheels, but technically you could call it a 'bicycle' in relation to vehicle code. Here is an interesting look on that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3faaXyCh5x9h6c