Carbon Spokes VS Steel Spokes : Uphill Testing Using Winspace Hyper & LUN wheels

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0:00 The difference between carbon and aluminum spokes
1:15 My equipment and the segment for testing
2:32 Testing at 220, 310, 400 watts uphill
3:50 Testing a 30-second sprint
4:27 Bike change!
5:00 Repeating the same testing
5:19 Analysing the results
7:16 DISCLAIMER....
8:19 My final opinion on carbon VS alu spokes

[@CharlesOuimet]

I know guys, not the same rim, not the same hub, unscientific testing because so much can vary with the wind. But at the end of the day, I just had fun doing these tests for myself and decided to share with you guys :) I hope you enjoyed it!

[@jkk916]

Thanks for sharing the data.

[@powerrod1657]

Real world riding is more practical for 99.999% of us who are not pros. Enjoyed the video 👍

[@jlwong92]

I think losses alone were aero drag from disc brakes

[@LR6092]

Thanks for the video! I'm happy I got the luns, should be here soon!

[@CharlesOuimet]

That's awesome!!

[@vietnguyen4312]

Thanks Charles, and thanks for acknowledging that your test was just a broad observation. Carbon spokes have no aerodynamic advantage so the difference you are going to feel is when sprinting or possibly climbing. What your test does Show is that the rim brake bike has an aerodynamic advantage to the disc brake bike. What I love about the carbon spokes mostly is the feel on the road. This is of course my opinion.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Love the feel as well!!

[@Chris-derf5]

​@@CharlesOuimet was the feel more comfort with the carbon spokes? what is the ride feel difference? thanks

[@OVOCNYCHECK]

Metal spokes are not made from aluminum they would get bent and snapped on first road bump if you were able to even tension them, Metal spokes are made from high grade steel

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hi , thanks for pointing out, for some reason I though the basic pilar spokes were aluminium and the upgrade sapim was stainless steel. I've corrected the title and thumbnail of the video. Anyways, the testing still give the same results!

[@Gabrielle4870]

On my previous bike I went from Shimano C24 to Mavic R-sys carbon (hollow) spoked wheels (also shallow and alloy tracks). Huge difference. Almost as good as aero wheels - they performed admirably in crits.

[@CharlesOuimet]

nice! Thanks for sharing man

[@Gabrielle4870]

@@CharlesOuimet *woman 🤣

[@PatrickLino]

Thanks for the upload! Have you had any issues with "creaking" using your Hyper wheels? Just heard about this recently which I find odd. No creaking on my Hyper 65s

[@CharlesOuimet]

I've had a bit of creaking in the past but got it fixed by winspace sending a ''brace'' that goes inbetween the interlacing spokes

[@ryancoddington9162]

Mine creak badly, Winspace send you the fix for free..??

[@CharlesOuimet]

@@ryancoddington9162 They shipped it with my gravel bike, but my guess is they should. Send them an email and ask for those brases!

[@revco196]

My 39mm hypers creaked like crazy. They sent me the spoke spreaders and that fixed the issue. They were very helpful in trying to resolve the problem. I suspect the 39s aren’t as stiff and flex a bit more. Hence the spoke rub.

[@PatrickLino]

@@revco196 Interesting. Im now curious how my 65mm will hold help. Thanks for the heads up everyone. Sorry to derail your post Charles LoL

[@manueldeubler1127]

Hey Charles, I just noticed your prescription in your lenses. Have you done or ever considered doing a video on them? At the moment, I have a pair of glasses at my optometrist for a rx insert in my Rudy Project Fotonyk. Unfortunately, there are not many videos out there talking about your options when it comes to cycling glasses with prescription.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hey man, thanks for the idea! You are right it can be a nice video topic. I have prescription in two of my glasses. I'll reach back to my contact at oakley to see if we can do something together, cheers!!

[@belmontst]

@@CharlesOuimet Yes please! I was looking at roka rx lens and was wondering how the prescription lens affects the peripheral because I noticed the prescription does not wrap around the entire lens.

[@caperider1160]

This would be a very useful topic!!! I have friends who don't have much options when it comes to sports goggles

[@jkk916]

Rim brakes for the win!

[@CharlesOuimet]

ahah :p

[@brettmuller8128]

hey Charles, love the channel, looking to upgrade my wheels and have been looking at the hyper and the lun for a while now, what sort of weight limitations are there with these wheels, I am around 107kg, the Lun would also be more in my price bracket, they are a lot cheaper, just worried they not as strong because of the price range, what are your thoughts?

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hey Brett, good question here! Here is on the hyper: The system limit (Rider + bike + luggage, etc.) is 135kg. However, riders above 95kgs should regularly inspect their wheels or get a qualified bike mechanic to do so. Here is on the LUN : The system limit (Rider + bike + luggage, etc.) is 120kg. However, riders above 90kgs should regularly inspect their wheels or get a qualified bike mechanic to do so. If I were you, I'd go with deep option, so 65 hyper or 60 lun so the spokes are shorter! I'm confident they will support your weight, but the hyper would be better with their carbon spokes, which definitely feels more stiff.

[@brettmuller8128]

@@CharlesOuimet Thank you very much, difficult decision to make. Really appreciate your feedback

[@muditmahajan]

Charles Hi , Nice detailed video , May I know if ceramic bearings makes any difference in comparison to steel bearings . Also may i know why not go with 65mm instead of 50mm? Thanks

[@CharlesOuimet]

I prefer the weight of the 50mm for climbing! Ceramic bearings have a bit less resistance!

[@RealMeatyBalls]

Hey Charles, what do u think about cam Nichols review of the t1500 where he says it's slow? Would be interesting to see you test ur winspace vs a Canondale and see if u also get the same results.

[@MrDaniellajoie]

Ça serait vraiment intéressant. Il a sorti une opinion qui se distance de la plupart :)

[@RealMeatyBalls]

@@MrDaniellajoie exactly. and to make the results less conclusive he recorded faster times with non aero aluminum wheels than with the carbon hypers. it wouldn't surprise me if the bearing on his hypers were faulty or the tyres are super slow compared to the tyres used on the cannondale. how can one log such slower times on a bike that weighs the same and has a similar aero profile pushing the same power? bizarre.

[@Gabrielle4870]

@@RealMeatyBalls hmm my current aero bike is heavier than my older road bike but power transfer is superior, so when I put the power down the response is direct and makes it faster, so there is a clue. Weight and aerodynamics are only part of the equation

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hey Man, great idea indeed. I love Cam videos, not to sure how accurate that comparison from riding a bike in the last years on the same course vs today.

[@CharlesOuimet]

en effet!

[@markgreenwood9343]

If I heard you correctly, both bikes were fitted with Assioma Favero Power Pedals, but a different set of pedals, is that correct? If so, then I’m wondering whether the pedals on the second bike with Lun wheels is reading lower power compared to the bike with the Hyper carbon spoke wheels. Another indicator that this may be the case is that your Heart rate was higher for the segments using the Lun wheel bike compared to the Hyper wheel bike despite the measured power being similar. In my experience using multiple power meters, it is quite common for them to measure different power output (despite manufacturers claims about accuracy) and you should really calibrate them yourself with a certified weight. You can do this with Assioma’s and with Quarqs. Or otherwise use the one set of pedals on both bikes.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hi Mark, the exact same pedals have been used, I swapped them when changing the bike! Sorry I should have mentionned

[@reactionsok]

hi - my Luns finally came in! First ride today went well paired with my aluminum cannondale caad10. Hit a bunch of PRs. No doubt because of the 60 mm really help in the flats. Now consider my other bike is an Sworks Tarmac SL6 with 50 MM rims - that costs over $10k .. results speak for themselves. It's all me : )

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hell yes man!!!

[@reactionsok]

Just made a quick review of the Luns. Still learning here - Charles i tried to plug you kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZS6p4mfZ5ZriMk

[@CharlesOuimet]

@@reactionsok nice man!!

[@tomasberka2124]

Charles, may I kindly ask you what are the integrated handlebars you were using during your first test run, please? Thanks & keep up the videos like this one,, they're very useful to me (non-pro).

[@mikes1984]

which shipping option did you use for the wheels and did you have to pay any tax when it arrived in canada?

[@CharlesOuimet]

Faster shipping option is worth it! A friend of mine recieved them in less than a week. Minimal taxes

[@J88HNT]

I have both the Hyper 50mm Disc and Lun 45mm RIM with Sapim spokes. I haven’t tested the Lun Wheels yet. Have you got the upgraded Sapim spokes?

[@CharlesOuimet]

No I have the base pilar spokes!

[@adriankok3095]

Hows the lun 45mm wheel so far is it good and how does they compare/

[@LombardiRapha]

What's your opinion about the different between then? I was looking for the Lun 45mm

[@maustar6746]

First of all, rim brakes bike is more aero efficient.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Going uphill, not that much difference since speed are low!

[@caperider1160]

Not necessarily

[@87togabito]

Hardly. You cant even come close to getting the crazy aero shapes disc brake only wheels can achieve, with a rim brake wheel. And modern bikes are well designed to shield the disc brake callipers from the wind. In addition, the rotational mass X distance of a disc is so so negligible compared to a metal/beefed up carbon strip on a rim wheel braking surface. Taken as a whole. Rim brakes just can’t hold a candle to modern day disc brakes lol

[@lamontdouglas8695]

I enjoy your video on the windspace wheels. What is the rider weight limit for both the wheels

[@CharlesOuimet]

High! Something like 120KG

[@miguelduhamel3394]

Tres bon video 👍

[@CharlesOuimet]

Thanks man!

[@aerobrain2001]

I guess the rim v disc May have accounted for some of it as like for like I believe discs have more drag. Not a criticism by the way of your testing. Just throwing it out there :-)

[@CharlesOuimet]

Uphill testing, drag is definitely minimal if not null, but definitely a good point!

[@aerobrain2001]

@@CharlesOuimet yeah I didn't think about it being slow speed.

[@maustar6746]

@@CharlesOuimet it's true, but differences you found are minimal.

[@jkk916]

@@CharlesOuimet Yet again if you equalize weight the main difference should be aerodynamics, even at lower speeds. If the main difference is other than that I would think that something is fundamentally wrong with Hyper wheels. It is interesting to see those results, but more testing would be needed for any conclusions.

[@888jucu]

Marginal gains on performance but massive Hachagam points 👍😄

[@CharlesOuimet]

ahahah yes!!

[@hamtairo]

The bike shop where i reserved my Lun wheel told me since its my first carbon wheel. I wont be able to feel the difference between hyper and lun lol😂. He assured me But there difference versus fulcrum racing 1 (which i rode before) lol

[@CharlesOuimet]

ahah I'm sure you could tell the difference!

[@rizalalrosyad8761]

Which do you prefer, lun or hyper wheelset?

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hyper!!

[@tehaisstudio1202]

if you asking me.. more stiffer more fast you can go because of the response but but but.... for me aluminum spoke is flex good for climbing...flat road carbon its better for fast response and accurate...look at track cycling everyone use full carbon module rims for championship because they want fast response and accurate and speed no one will use spokes rims..

[@CharlesOuimet]

Thanks for sharing man, your point makes a lot of sense!!!

[@belmontst]

Thanks for your real world unscientific review, Charles. Last week I was considering buying a set of Lun, then some how life throws a review or 3 about the creaking/rubbing spokes. It was disheartening to find out. Went with a set of Easton EC90 wheelset instead. Spent $600 more than I wanted to but the 2 year no question asked warranty won me over also.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hey man, my pleasure! Yeah the creaking has been a issue for some people, not everyone! I did had the issue but winspace fixed it with the ''braces'' between the spokes they sent me. I think now it ships with the wheels already. But yeah the EC90 are a great choice too!

[@faosa73]

@@CharlesOuimet just got some hyper no braces included, just a 30km ride so far but no problems

[@julienbornet414]

Just have a look to ineos which is the pro teams which is the more meticulous about marginal gain. All the team is using the standard wheels when the leader on the team is using a pair of lightweight. That means for me that the gain is really really marginal otherwise all the team will have it (since the almost limitless with the budget)...

[@CharlesOuimet]

That is a great observation!

[@jkk916]

Team leader is also always kept in dirty air so slightly less aerodynamic shape of the lightweights shouldn't matter as much because airflow won't attach anyways.

[@paulhyland4653]

can you replace the carbon spokes if they brake

[@CharlesOuimet]

Yes you can, they now supply extra spokes

[@simonpeneau7802]

Bonjour Charles, Merci pour tes vidéos sur les Lun et Hyper. Je viens de commander des Lun 45mm rim brake pour mon Focus Izalco pro 1.0 (2012... vieux vélo mais très léger). Grâce à toi, j'ai pu bénéficier des 10% de réduction ce qui permet de payer la livraison express. Bonne continuation.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Malade!! Tu vas adorer les LUN :)

[@MrDaniellajoie]

Allo Charles, j'ai un Gravel Bike (Aluminium en 105) et avec mon budget limité, j'aimerais me monter un set de roue avec les disques et une casette 11-28 pour mes journées de route. Une recommandation différente pour des roues abordables?

[@CharlesOuimet]

Salut Daniel, Winspace ont bientôt la nouvelle GRAPID qui est dédié pour le gravel. Je l'aime bien! Sinon jai aussi un set de FSA AGX que j'aime, mais un peu plus chère!

[@MrDaniellajoie]

@@CharlesOuimet Merci pour la référence vers les set de WinSpace. Je n'y avais même pas pensé. pour 800$, ça fait un excellente point de départ

[@Pshpshpshpshpshpshpsh]

I think the difference can be chalked out to human error you might be able to give each wheel a +/- 5 on either wheel for difference and essentially argue that the results are pretty much the same.

[@CharlesOuimet]

thanks!

[@jimmyhor78]

The thick carbon spokes and the disc brake bike has an aero penalty over the thinner steel spokes and rim brake bike. Thats the only explanation I can think of. Try a flat time trial at 300W to verify this.

[@CharlesOuimet]

will do!

[@arnaudseynaeve9266]

In conclusion, I am happy to have bought Pirelli. Gp 5000 with tube too difficult and too long to dislodge from the rim rail

[@CharlesOuimet]

exactly!!! I love the pirelli's

[@faosa73]

I just mounted the 5000, very hard. I had to use a special lever to do so. Now I will need to cary it with me when riding.

[@CharlesOuimet]

@@faosa73 yeah 5000 are so Damn hard!

[@arnaudseynaeve9266]

@@faosa73 Sure.It's impossible to install GP5000 with inner tubes without level but the real problem is removing them from the rim rail. That's a big deal with these tubeless ready rims. So I bought Pirelli tires which are very easy to mount without the levers. My advice would be that you do a demounting test (if you have done a tire + inner tubes) if you are going away from home.I actually had a lot of trouble removing the GP 5000 from the rear wheel and the one from the front wheel, never got there. I had to cut it to remove it and even then it was difficult to remove it from the rail. I imagine the situation if I was far from home. On the weightweenies site, I read that a person even damaged his rim during assembly-disassembly.The problem is also due to the rims because these same GP 5000 tires, I install them on other rims with much less difficulty

[@colecoleman1499]

Was the rim brake bike faster on sprint?

[@CharlesOuimet]

same same

[@kaushikiyer3859]

What mount is that for the insta360?

[@CharlesOuimet]

a friction arm + clam on the handlebar

[@markheinekenpiliin]

Nice video Charles! Im considering to buy the hyper 50mm wheels , but these creaking issue bothers me , but as You said already it was fix with the braces they send you, is there any chance you can show it ,how it looks like, picture is enough or maybe a shirt video ,is the installation hard , and do you have to fixed it everytime because it just between the spokes. I hope my order comes already with that braces that you mention.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Hey mark, send me a DM on instagram and I'll send you a photos. I got told they don't come with them as less than 3% of the wheels see a creaking issue, and if it does, the team then help to solve the issue and send the braces if needed

[@markheinekenpiliin]

@@CharlesOuimet thanks a lot for answering, I will send a DM on your Instagram 👍

[@ChinaCycling]

#SaveTheRimBrake

[@CharlesOuimet]

ahah yes!!

[@danc1829]

I almost brought the hypers with carbon spokes but totally put off by the creaking (cam Nicholls has just confirmed the same along with a LOAD of people on weight weenies) I ended up picking the Luns for this reason. Plus I don't think carbon spokes rubbing against one another underload is a good thing. Shame as they look awesome wheels.

[@CharlesOuimet]

Great choice, the LUN are indeed a safer option. For the creaking on the hypers, it got fixed with the braces!

[@danc1829]

@@CharlesOuimet I wouldnt call that a fix more of a workaround lol. I'm assuming u mean the small bits of plastic that go between the spokes

[@adriankok3095]

Hows the Lun so far?

[@adriankok3095]

Hi may I know after a year is your lun wheel doing great any particular issue u encountered?

[@danc1829]

@@adriankok3095 hi I don't have them any longer I sold them on. I didn't have any issues though. I only sold them as my employer started doing cycke scheme so I could finally get my dream wheels, some boras. However the luns are a great wheel for the price u can't go wrong

[@raphaeltiziani7476]

5:47 rim brake bikes are actually more aero :D

[@CharlesOuimet]

Ahha not uphill Hehe

[@caperider1160]

The carbon spoke version definitely will have higher "HACHAGAM" This is a word used by bike junkies in Korea to describe which bike draws more attention from fellow riders after he gets off the bike. 😝🤣🤣🤣

[@CharlesOuimet]

ahah yes, love that word!! Thanks for sharing

[@dings2063]

Why do you have Ultegra mechanical on your Winspace? Where is the di2?

[@CharlesOuimet]

mechanical on my girlfriend bike, I have di2 on mine

[@markjmaxwell9819]

I still think double butted stainless steel spokes are the most durable and corrosion proof.. Sometimes you don't have to reinvent the wheel....😂😂😂

[@CharlesOuimet]

20 000km on carbon spokes : no issues :)

[@markjmaxwell9819]

@@CharlesOuimet 😉

[@SurpriseMeJT]

Tubeless is mostly placebo effect. I've been riding for 25 years on/off road and I'm not convinced of it for the road.

[@CharlesOuimet]

I love tubeless

[@kpsig]

@@CharlesOuimet More on that, please? I an at the point of deciding to move or not to tubeless

[@Tim_McMurray]

I think it possibly proves disc rims are slower. Would be interesting to see disc V disc or rim V rim

[@CharlesOuimet]

agreed!

[@ernestoechevers4741]

Nailed it

[@EGregorio78]

Aluminium spokes or steel spokes?

[@CharlesOuimet]

steel

[@user-el6mc6rj5l]

RIM BRAKE FOR THE WIN

[@CharlesOuimet]

ahahahah XD

[@ericclaire-helenerfletcher9433]

Salut Charles , je vient de faire un essai des winspace hyper wheels 45 , avec des bearings en ceramic avec des rayons de ceramic,avec des continental 5000 en 25mm, ce que je a trouver ils ont rouler super bien , porte leur vitesse , et repond quand je mettre le puissance , et au dela de 35km hr ils sont dans leur zone, Mais que je a trouver sur la route avec un paver rugueuse ile transmitt le bruit ,vibration , sur un paver uni et smooth aucune trouble, si je les compare a mes carbon bontrager 50mm avec des rayons normale avec les memes pneu sur les memes surface je prefer mes bontrager parce ce que il y a beacoup moins de bruit transmit des roues, dans un autre essai je pense si tu pose des tubeless ca vas eliminer beaucoup le bruit transmit par les roues et la route,vient de faire changer les bearing de mes roues cause du milege rendu a 18000km sur mes bontrager , le prochaine fois je pense de faire mettre des bearing ceramic dans mes bontrager , en tout cas j ai penser te laisser savoir mon impression des roues , des hyper avec des rayons sapim serais aussi vite mes plus confortable,

[@CharlesOuimet]

Merci Eric!! Faut aller Tubeless, quand tout va bien, c'est tellement mieux!!!! 70 PSI pour moi à 68KG est c'est comme rouler sur des nuages. Avec inner tube, c'est 90 pour éviter les pinch-flat. Les '' hyper avec rayon sapim'' c'est pas mal les LUN original qui sont le 2/3 du prix :P

[@cliffcox7643]

what about the standard stainless spokes. .Thats a more common comparo.

[@CharlesOuimet]

thats whats in the LUN

[@cliffcox7643]

@@CharlesOuimet oh, you said Aluminium spokes on the vid.

[@CharlesOuimet]

@@cliffcox7643 my bad hehe it was an error, i meant steel

[@cliffcox7643]

@@CharlesOuimet haha, we're really listening to you. Great vids btw

[@cipo36an203]

Carbon spokes wheel gives you the same power output with less BPM, you would need a lot more testing to confirm since BPM has a lot of biais. The two bikes are different, the hyper are discs so more drag then explaining that for the same power output you have less speed. The last test could highlight that stiff wheels allow you de deliver more power, what was the max power output?

[@CharlesOuimet]

Thanks!

[@rmeav8er000]

1: I've used Hyper 50s for the past year and they're amazing. I've topped numerous PRs that I set with much deeper 65mm wheels in the past. 2: Whenever I see Charles' videos it makes me chuckle because I feel like he's George St Pierre in a Keanu Reeves Halloween costume.

[@CharlesOuimet]

1. that's amazing 2. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[@rmeav8er000]

@@CharlesOuimet Did you find that the Hypers had a short break in period for the hubs? I think it may have been working out some of the grease in the hub bearings, but the wheels seemed to roll faster after the first 100-200 miles.

[@8eodorosk]

In my opinion the difference you see in times it is the difference between disc brake wheels and rim brake ones in the ascending. In order to get real difference I think a more solid test should be: 1. comparing the same wheel depth(45mm with 50mm is not a significant difference though), 2. both disc brake or rim brake(really important one) 3. a heavier guy. Probably more than 80 kgs. This is a proper test for the spokes.(really impoertant too) I am coming from a powerlifting background and I'm currently weighing 82kgs, not like the average cyclist. My first carbon wheels where with aluminium spokes(the sapim spokes that lun have) and they DID bend and rubbing on my brakes when I was putting some wats while sanding, and i can put several of them ^_^ So I bought Hyper and I have a totally different higher quality rides... This kind of test i would like to learn. i want to buy the luns for my sencond bike and my gf's bike.

[@CharlesOuimet]

thanks for sharing this man, super interresting indeed. Totally get it!!

[@ernestoechevers4741]

Bottom line rim brake is a faster bike kudos to your GF has a better bike than you jejejejje

[@CharlesOuimet]

ahahah!!

[@pmcmpc]

They're different rim designs of different depths with different hubs ... what is the point of this 'test' except clickbait?

[@pochmaui]

Please read the title again and say it out loud.

[@CharlesOuimet]

To actually show that there isn't a big difference uphill between the more expensive and more affordable wheel man!

[@OVOCNYCHECK]

@@pochmaui if it was test of "spokes" the two sets of wheels would have to have same rim, same tire and same hub but that is impossible because carbon spokes are usually made like hub / spokes system, this video should be named full carbon - spoke wheel vs regular carbon wheel

[@pmcmpc]

@@CharlesOuimet "Carbon Spokes vs Aluminium Spokes"

[@cypriano8763]

big old WHATEVER. just like oval rings, ceramic bearings and oversized jockey wheels. industry bling bs. nothing will ever make up for riding more. dont get upgrades, go up grades!

[@CharlesOuimet]

but hey, cycling is fun and thats what it matters :)

[@cypriano8763]

@@CharlesOuimet its about health and fitness. Not spending money to look cooler than the next guy. The bike industry caters to onverweight middle aged men who love the merch and the high end bling hung up on their walls but barely ride. Get yer ass out there and ride, i say. The bike is absolutely secondary.

[@cypriano8763]

@@CharlesOuimet the fun is about riding not thinking you need a bunch of ridiculous expensive "upgrades" to be fast or have fun. Dont believe the hype!

[@CharlesOuimet]

@@cypriano8763 You have to understand that the ''hype'' that you call is what's moving the industry forward. Do you think in the 70's when Shimano introduced indexing shifting, it was surely seen as unnecessary ''hype', at the time? Same with electronic shifting, same with tubeless, the same with CLIPLESS pedals etc... Yes at the beginning new products are expensive and can be see as ''unnecessary'' and useless and ''hype'', but later down the road, these might just become the standard because it's actually better

[@cypriano8763]

@@CharlesOuimet i bugs me that guys think they need a 15lbs hyper bike to get into cycling. All the marginal gains upgrades make no real difference. Not compared to riding regularly , dropping extra pounds and generally gaining fitness from that consistency. Thats what makes you faster, not fnn 300 carbon spokes! The industry is about creating needs, giving people the idea they need a new bike or gear to be in the game. Its just advertizing with very little actual watts gainer or extra speed. People in general should save their hard earned cash, dont get hung up on pointless marginal gainz and just get out there are ride more. Thats where the fun is son, RIDING, not BUYING! dont be sucker, DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE