1968 Firebird Ram Air II vs 1969 Dart GTS 340 - STOCK DRAG RACE

[@CarsAndZebras]

Leave a comment on who you think will win! Make sure you support the drivers on the facebook group, “stock appearing drag racers” 👍

[@kevinbaird2332]

will keep quite as I was there and they pitted across from me but I am looking forward to the video you have created

[@ghaasl78]

Done and done

[@briansd2772]

Ram Air IV camshaft, round port heads, and decent factory exhaust manifolds showed their value in these races. Driver was also very good on those skinny tires.

[@Ballenxj]

Being an Olds Pontiac guy I was rooting for the Firebird, but that little 340 was impressive. Thumb up of course.

[@bw3506]

That Bird was flyin from half track on. Amazing how the little 340 was getting out on him every time though. I love both the cars. Thanks for the vids.

[@lilredexptsc]

I’m glad I’m watching this without pants on.

[@CarsAndZebras]

It does make things more comfortable

[@jimmeyer7632]

I'M A CHEVY GUY AND REALLY LIKE THOSE 400 FIRE CHICKENS BUT I'VE SEEN THESE DAMN 340'S SHAME A ZL1 CAMARO ... BOTH CARS ARE GREAT LOOKING AND HAD SOME IMPRESSIVE TIMES MUST SAY THOUGH THE FIREBIRD SUPRISED THE HELL OUT OF ME DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE THAT FAST

[@badass6.0powerstroke10]

That was all cubic inches coming on at the end, 1/8 mile, 340 all the way. Tough to stay ahead when you're 60 cubic inches smaller. I use to work with a old timer drag racer, he always said, the bigger it is, the faster you'll go.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Very interesting race. The Darts always have a good 60 foot time, but that Firebird really covered some ground in the second half of the track!

[@badass6.0powerstroke10]

@@CarsAndZebras Yes it did.

[@futon02]

Going for the 340 A body. (As if you didn't know I was going to root for the MOPAR

[@charlesdalton985]

Tough call, those 340s are sneaky. My head says 340, but I’m going with my heart on this one and the Firebird. I’ll bet this one is close.

[@CarsAndZebras]

I’m actually surprised more people haven’t picked the Firebird

[@charlesdalton985]

First, as always, thanks for the great content. I can’t help but wonder if the Dart would do better with numerically lower rear gears, like 4.11s. Regardless, great race, and Happy New Year!

[@jeremybledsoe7225]

I had a RAM III Judge in high school so I love Pontiacs but I've been consistently impressed with these 340s on here. I had no idea a stock 340 could run into the 13s!? I'll paraphrase what someone else already said; the pontiac won but the dodge won my respect.

[@marinegunny826]

Always thought the firebird that year would have looked really cool with hideaway headlights. Just my opinion 😁

[@robertclymer6948]

Thought for sure the Poncho would take the Dart. Dayyyyyyyum! Good Stuff!!! Me likey.

[@lunchsack6861]

I can see that the MOPAR fans are accidentally hitting the dislike button with their tears

[@therealhonestabe7839]

HAHAHA!

[@Welcometofacsistube]

Of laughter because #gmproductsareajoke

[@bw3506]

Hey now watch it. I'm a Mopar fan but would never cry over being outran by an extra 60 cubes. Ha. But I like Pontiacs a lot too so it's all good to me anyway

[@bhaggen]

I've been a Ford guy since they took out Enzo in 66, but I've always loved those 340 Darts

[@01trsmar]

NOPE....WE are proud of the smaller 340 ci vs a 400ci...The 4.56's hurt the car mid track..it was set up for the 1/8th mile and street light to street light racing! I've seen these cars back then run quicker and not far from stock either vs bigger engine GM/Ford cars..But I love seeing all types of older cars racing,reminds me of the 80's&90's.. My brother in law was a Pontiac guy and I always blew his doors off with my Mopars! 455 GTO vs 440 Charger RT! I won,every time! Yes 455's are quick but not 440 quick..We both started with dead stock cars never rebuilt and added mods from there.. My dad in his mid 80's bought a new 440 6bl Cuda(still has it) we raced my uncles GM,Fords all engines 455,454 ls-6,427,428,400,396,327 and Ford 390,427,428,429,460..It was fun times! Dad ran high 11's 2 weeks after he bought his Cuda,carb work,headers and slicks,engine was stock!

[@glenkelly998]

Had a 69 Dart gts some years ago here in the uk. Was a quick car and you were unlikely to see another. But ide be happy to own eather one of these cars now 😁

[@CarsAndZebras]

Yeah, I can’t imagine there are many of those around there!

[@ADR.Hi-Gain]

Pure Pontiac Power !! IIRC these were underrated because the throttle linkage did not allow 100% throttle -mere 30 sec to uninstall. Awesome "Mid Range" and top end still pulling, that firebird is breathing.

[@danmyers9372]

Gonna have to go with the ‘Bird. Those 400’s were very underrated.

[@danmyers9372]

My buddy back in the mid 70’s had a stock 1969 Mustang Mach 1, 428 CJ, 4 speed. He only lost two races against other stock muscle cars. Two of the losses were against 400 Firebirds.

[@Welcometofacsistube]

You misspelled overrated

[@Welcometofacsistube]

@@danmyers9372 so he only had 2 races in his whole life?

[@danmyers9372]

@@Welcometofacsistube - I take it you are a Most Often Passed At Races fan?

[@alanbiagini3016]

@@Welcometofacsistube sounds like you have been smoked by quite a few Pontiac’s.

[@BamaTidefan1967]

Was that Barbi Benton in the Dodge commercial?

[@Thedoug369]

If the Firebird qualified/ dialed in at 13.06 and then ran under his time....in the 12s disqualified?!! That's how it works at every track I've ever raced at.

[@snakeyhedger]

PSMCDR rules allow 0.3 better in shootout since qualifying is day prior to race.

[@davidgraham2673]

I'm surprised that the Firebird managed to take that 340 motor. Those 340's take off like scalded cats. Well done.

[@ghaasl78]

Jesus, that Poncho really hauls the mail.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Very quick car!

[@jeremybledsoe7225]

If I remember correctly the RAII was identical to the RAIV? I think the IV was slightly better? I recall reading some IV's doing low 12s

[@bruceleroy8138]

Ram Air 2 Firdbird all the way. Those cars are seriously underrated and beast on the track.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Definitely a good running car!

[@edwhitson9873]

Pontiac powered Camaro by a different name

[@yafois988]

@@edwhitson9873 Interesting they are similar in being a Fisher F-Body car. everything else does NOT fit with exception of the diff and CTL arms. Pontiacs are clearly Built better yet from a first glance every bit the same general shape!

[@Welcometofacsistube]

@@yafois988 same Generic Motor Crap no matter what name you call it

[@alanbiagini3016]

@@edwhitson9873 uneducated comment

[@leedanner5071]

Thanks for all the content. I have been watching alot of your content over the last few days. Keep up the good work

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks for watching!

[@kennymay9036]

the engine you show in the Poncho has the small rect ex ports as can be seen,not round.

[@CarsAndZebras]

No. You can easily see on the end exhaust ports “R” and “A,” and on the center exhaust ports, “96.” That means Ram Air II.

[@badass6.0powerstroke10]

I thought the Dart would be a Little Lighter, it's Heavier than i thought.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Yeah, that one is actually kind of heavy, but it weighs in around that much every year.

[@outboardfixer]

When this guy grows up I hope he will tell someone just exactly is IN the cars....I mean both of them. RAM AIR 2 don't mean a whole lot to most. As far as bringing a knife to a gun fight...we used to race a 71 demon 340 stock with 391 gears that would eat that Pontiac.

[@dougritchie4625]

Would have been a different story if it ran agains the Dart GTS with a 383.

[@yahdah-juleus1041]

Was hoping the bird woulda won, my pops had a 69 bird when he was younger that had a 69 judge engine in it. He got it from an older guy say somewhere around 1989-1992 the car was then stolen :(

[@dr.detroit1514]

From what I read somewhere, I think it was an article by Dan Jensen, the Ram Air 4's he built would consistently put out 435-445 horsepower fully prepped for Pure Stock. I suspect the RA 2 was close in that neighborhood. ( recently read in another article, that the RA2 made 430-440hp setup for pure stock.)

[@mylesross5712]

I assume the Firebird is a 400 cubic inch engine.

[@deebo47]

Great race C&Z! Thanks!

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks for watching! 👍

[@63MacGuy]

Sweet video. I was thinking it would be the Pontiac but those 340’s always surprise me.

[@therewhatgoes8038]

I’m still waiting for that day when I wake up and this channel has another 100K subs.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Ha, I don’t think that day will even happen but I appreciate that

[@terryharding7476]

So whats the big accomplishment? A 400 cube hybred, with a computor designed cam, special heads,etc beats a bone stock 340 Dart, jeez im impressed.

[@lunchsack6861]

Could you act any more like a crybaby child who just lost at checkers?

[@mrgauges9065]

This channel is my newest and best entertainment. Love the cars and all the info!

[@chevyblue10]

That Dart is pretty impressive. Love the Ram air 2. I want them both.

[@paulherring4230]

Have a 67 firebird love the 1 gens

[@CarsAndZebras]

Yeah, I really like the ‘67 and ‘68. I wouldn’t mind finding a 400 car, doesn’t need to be a Ram Air.

[@mopar340dave]

Put 3.91's in the Dart and it wins every time.

[@danielbarron1046]

Or 4.10

[@johntempest267]

Nope. It would've lost it's holeshot advantage to gain a few mph at the end. Aerodynamically, it's a brick. The Pontiac simply had more power.

[@chrishill1286]

I knew the bird had that one, the numbers don't lie unless the driver was a 500 pounder. The bestest part of your videos are those AWSOME special effects. Happy New Year sphincter

[@CarsAndZebras]

Sphincter says what?

[@chrishill1286]

@@CarsAndZebras Everybody knows it says, I'M IN CHARGE!

[@badgerbait8351]

Was noticing the redline setting on the tachs of each car: Pontiac at 6200 rpm and Mopar at about 6400. This is actually really surprising for engines hobbled with factory cast iron exhaust manifolds and air cleaner! My big block chevys back in the day quit pulling at around 5500 with factory attire!

[@BrewBlaster]

Like some other commenters, I was surprised at the Dart's weight and I also thought it's rear gear was too high.

[@01trsmar]

@@shawnbaird2015 ..4.56 are good for street light to street light or 1/8th mile,not the 1/4 mile!

[@Make_my_day-1]

A toss up for me, I love the early Firebirds. I really like my Mopars too.

[@baldscarlettjohansson6433]

That Dodge commercial was epic.

[@CarsAndZebras]

👍

[@396375a]

Are these cars supposed to be stock? 12.83 on skinny bias tires seems a bit fishy for a stock 400 Firebird.

[@frederickwise5238]

If he'd modified that Dart to take cold air in from the plenum under the windshield he probably woulda taken the Pony. I did that to my 68 Cuda Formula S 340 and knocked 1.35 seconda off my 1/4 mile time. Amazing how much HP you lose when your carb is sucking hot underhood air. ... Thanks to Smokey Yunick for the tip and seeing Junior Johnsons Chevy.

[@jeremyrennersleftnut905]

HEY! I made it into this video! 1:02 That’s me acting as a car. Thank you, daddy C&Z!

[@parodynuts5407]

Good thing they covered up your ugly mug

[@CarsAndZebras]

Good eye Jeremy

[@josephstabile9154]

"Back in the day", my '68 F'bird was also untouchable on the street by 340 Darts. I ran a 400 w/ RA III cam, Cloyes dbl roller timing chain, comp. valve job w/RA IV valves & springs, RA exh. manifolds & Camaro off-road chambered exh, RA IV oil pump & SD baffled pan, Q-jet w/ custom jets & rods, custom-curved distributer w/L-88 wires, and w.r. Muncie w/ 3.55 12-bolt l.s. diff. Engine wore '67 HO "open" air clnr. Car wore '69 Z/28 Rally wheels w'67 Rally I center caps, BFG TA F-60-15 radials, H.D. springs w/'69 TA sway bar, '69 TA hood, v.r. pwr steering, & manual '69 disc brakes & Velvetouch metallic rear drums. L-78 396s, 6-pk 440s no problem. 4-1/4 427s had to be careful, esp. Chevelles; my car went 3450 lbs. w/me in driver's seat. Scary fast acceleration, stick to corners like glue, stop on dime--repeatedly. Deluxe interior w/full gouges, Hurst comp-plus shifter, factory AM-FM radio. Verdoro green w/black interior. Regardless of what books said, car WAS streetable; could put car in 4th at idle (750 rpm), and w/o using accel. pedal, car would motor away from a stop. Loved that car. Had to be careful w/340s, though. Light weight, and esp. w/Torqueflites, very quick cars initially...

[@danielcamacho1913]

The Dart certainly seemed to have an advantage at the start. It looked like he did a burnout before every run, and the Firebird didn't, so I'm guessing the Dart's advantage was in the tires.

[@dalescrewcab1]

Man I loved how that GTS got it out of the gate but you got to give the fire chicken credit he was able to run him down on the big end

[@noahaaron5012]

Did anyone else notice that the firebird had different wheels than the steal ones in the beginning or just me

[@CarsAndZebras]

a lot of guys bring multiple sets

[@snakeyhedger]

We were spinning and steel wheels are F70’s. We switched to Rally II’s which are G70’s (wider and taller) to increase contact and take out gearing. It worked. Track was the worst we’ve seen there.

[@noahaaron5012]

@@snakeyhedger I understand that no traction at all I see a lot of people race and lose because of it when they should have won by a landslide

[@snakeyhedger]

@@noahaaron5012 if you’re spinnin’, you ain’t winnin’

[@noahaaron5012]

@@snakeyhedger fact on that

[@dalescrewcab1]

I used to own a 1969 Dodge Dart GTS with a 340 so I think you know where I land on this Mopar or no car

[@CarsAndZebras]

👍

[@Welcometofacsistube]

So did i. Not a gts but a 3:91 4 speed that loved to embarrass pherds and Generic Motor Crap

[@CarsAndZebras]

@@Welcometofacsistube the 3.91 seems to pair very well with the 340 👍

[@mrgtojudge]

Why does the Firebird in the pits have steel wheels, while the one shown in the race have Rally II wheels? 🤔

[@briansd2772]

Maybe the rules required that the heavier, stock, Rally II wheels be used?

[@snakeyhedger]

We were spinning and the steel wheels are F70’s so we switched to Rally II’s which are G70’s (wider & taller) to get more contact and take out some gearing.

[@briansd2772]

@@snakeyhedger Great performance! What front and rear pressures worked best that day?

[@snakeyhedger]

@@briansd2772 40 front, 26 rear is norm. We lowered rear to 24 and didn’t help

[@briansd2772]

@@snakeyhedger Thanks and keep up the great work.

[@boeing175]

Pontiac Performance... Perfect!

[@louiskats5116]

Goodday C & Z, You know I am a Mopar or no Car type of guy, My 1970 VG 770 Hardtop Hemi 6 cylinder Valiant has an identical body to the Dodge Dart, basically shipped out to Australia back in the day with an Australian front do over. Love to show you pictures of my hardtop. Love the Poncho too, no substitute for cubes. The Dodge got the jump but the Poncho had the legs as they say in the classics. It has been a fantastic year watching all your video's, you have done the muscle car world a great service, & you should be commended for your work. Take care of yourself, have a safe & joyful New Year for 2021, & I look forward to seeing more of your video's. Your number 1 Fan in Australia Louis Kats from Melbourne Australia ☺ 👍 ❤

[@CarsAndZebras]

happy new year!

[@AMCmachine]

I have a VHS tape I bought in 1994 that features classic muscle car commercials from 1962 to 1975. Both these commercials were on it. The Pontiac spot sounds like they had Fifth Dimension perform the soundtrack. : )

[@plymouthdie-castreplicas]

That Firebird is impressive. Not bad!

[@gloriamaletta8667]

The Dodge 340 is a good engine and it left the line very well it's just the Pontiac 400 engines is bigger and known for great acceleration above 60mph where by 3/4 track the Pontiac caught and passed the little 340 but it gave the bigger 400 Pontiac a good close race

[@mikebell2750]

The Dart pulled better for the first half, but the Firebird had what it took for the second half. I think that the combination of low gearing in rear end and maybe the Torquflight having a bit lower first gear is what have the Dodge the initial advantage. It still looked like some good racing.👍

[@77trashman]

Awesome job with the addition of mick dundee

[@brianhaase9612]

Could not believe the mopar was ahead off the line until I saw it had 456 gears! Those Pontiacs were tork monsters!

[@thegreenerthemeaner]

Says 4.11 in the vid for the Firebird. Would do better on 3.70s.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Hmm I've seen those 340s run on here before,so I'll go with the Mopar this time.

[@CarsAndZebras]

They’re definitely good runners!

[@MrTheHillfolk]

@@CarsAndZebras For sure 👍 I got learned about Pontiacs today too 😝

[@robormiston2841]

My friend had a Firebird just like that, same year same color but he put a dual quad tunnel ram on it. He would mash the gas on that and you wouldn't here much but you look behind you and smoke from the posi rear end left really long burnouts. It was pretty fast car. The tunnel rsm,dirt under the stock hood and made it a total sleeper. I used to have a 72 Swinger Dart also in blue. Only 225 slant 6 motor at least it has posi.

[@rebeccajohnson1407]

take the 430 gears out way to low. 391 gears tune that 340 then run again see what happens there fast stock ram air nothing to mess with in my day hell thay were all fast with a super tune

[@karlsracing8422]

Man that dart is heavy! My 74 duster must weight 3,800.

[@paulcondie2520]

The rears in the 340 is what got it off the line faster, would love to have either in my garage!!!

[@01trsmar]

Great for 1/8th mile or street light to street light...1/4 mile needed the 3.91 would have had a better top end!

[@timmotel5804]

1/29/2024: Yes! Happy New Year, in the Future!! Wonderful Cars. Thanks & Best Regards Always

[@timmycolson7403]

Always great racing no matter what is going down the 1/4 mile, keep it going 👍👍😎💪💪

[@CarsAndZebras]

That’s true!

[@camaro69green31]

Another GREAT Vid! Makes me wanna Go "Wide Traken" with the winning car! Dang quick little Bird!

[@badass6.0powerstroke10]

Those 340,s really ran good, gotta give the nod to Mopar, this time. Well looks like i was wrong, That's what cubic inches does, comes on hard at the end.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Hard to not choose a 340!

[@74SD455TA]

This is GO GREAT to see! Thanks, its Big! Those 340 Chrysler's, they were good, those piggy poorly tuned big block 426 cars and others were a joke, but, truth be told, a Ram Air II car really should be in the 11's along with its Brethen group.

[@Ice703B]

Own a 69 dart gts with the same 340 and 4 barrel. Love it.

[@mr.iowegian]

Is hat Victoria Principal at 4:26??

[@barcrrt850]

Those Ram Air II cars are pretty fast.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Definitely 👍

[@biscuitboy3617]

The Dart would be a killer if this was a stoplight to stoplight race! But the Firebird muscle starts to take over in high gear in the full quarter mile. Both great cars, and great racing!

[@michaelstrangefranke7002]

I think that 4.30 rear end in the Dart was his downfall

[@deebo47]

Another BB vs SB race. Only this SB thinks it's a BB with SB high revving rpm's. I know those Ram Air's are fast, but so are those na 340's. I'll take the 4.30 geared Dart GTS on this one. Should be a good close race, can't wait..

[@deebo47]

A couple of bolt-ons and that Dart would be there!

[@number3665]

Pontiac 400 isn't a big block. Pontiac never made a big block. From the 265 all the way to the 455 it's the same block with different bore and stroke to get different cubic inches. And the block is way smaller than a big block Mopar, big block ford, or big block chevy.

[@deebo47]

@@number3665 Did not know that. Thanks 3665. So they had small bore/stroke and big bore/stroke engines all with the same block. Interesting to say the least.

[@michaelferro897]

the dart gets him off the line but sometimes there's just no substitute for more cubic inches, especially at the top end. oh well, cool cars and thanks again!!!!

[@CarsAndZebras]

thanks for watching 👍

[@ADR.Hi-Gain]

Love the color of the Firebird !

[@geraldlafleur7776]

Never seen a Pure Stock Firebird run in the 12's. Or weigh so little. Wonder why the Dart couldn't match his qualification times. It seemed set up to run 1/8 mile drag strip.

[@01trsmar]

Yes set for the 1/8th...4.56 run out of steam after that.

[@kalanirobb54]

2 badass cars right here !!

[@MrBiggerdaddio]

Epic race!

[@manbearpig2164]

Love firebirds but that dart is beautiful

[@CarsAndZebras]

👍👍👍

[@hellraiserx9490]

Although I’m a Mopar guy this fire bro is far better looking than the dark in my opinion

[@loyalamerican8776]

Dart is at a disadvantage The whole way including weight which is surprising but it held its own.

[@stripervince1]

That GM can't hold a candle to a 340. Bad ass dart

[@aaronvargas3980]

Why dont you have more subs? Content 10/10

[@livewire2759]

Judging by the stats it should be a close one, but I'm going with the Dart for the win.

[@CarsAndZebras]

I tell you what....they actually qualified within 0.02 seconds of each other.

[@livewire2759]

@@CarsAndZebras As Joe DIrt would say, "Daaaaang..."

[@gimmesomesugar]

No surprise here a factory modified Poncho against a obviously stock Mopar. The underdog doesn't always win.

[@1972Ventura455ho]

How is the Firebird modified?

[@davidedwards2773]

400 CID vs 340? Plus Ram Air ll. C’mon Man 🤣

[@dantegmo]

I’m having chicken tonight so Firebird. 😆

[@CarsAndZebras]

🐓

[@bryanmclellan8546]

The Dart is fast as hell. The Firebird is as well but cmon 12.83? Thats a low 14 second car, stock. At best. On a great day. Downhill.

[@mikeloeffler2801]

I never heard of the ram air 2 but I know of the ram air 4 I love your channel watch it all the time keep up the great work and let me know what the ram air two is

[@snakeyhedger]

RAII is same head as RAIV except rocker ratio is 1.5 vs RAIV 1.65. Also cast iron intake where RAIV is aluminum. Same camshaft in both.

[@thegreenerthemeaner]

@@snakeyhedger I thought the IV cam had a bit more Duration to try and make up the difference lost on the Rocker ratio change. I say that because some guys thought by putting the higher ratio rockers on it would give them more. In this instance, too much duration.

[@HarryPotter-no4lc]

🎶 Ram Air II 🎶

[@CarsAndZebras]

🎵

[@unclebob7937]

Daaayuum!! That 'Bird got torque!!🏁💀

[@brucebryan3710]

Read some about the raii.... they were apparently a very stout plant

[@sometimesieatcake4156]

DANG, I missed the premiere

[@CarsAndZebras]

Just have to catch the next one!

[@maccoolmac5191]

1969 Dodge Dart GTS 340 vs 1968 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air II 426 The Dart 340 should never been that close.

[@paulwhite6250]

I used to race a 69 Dart 340 four speed running in stock class. The best I could do was 12.95 104.58. I did surprise many competitors. Based on the horsepower to weight ratio and aerodynamics the Firebird should win. It’ll be close though.

[@kfc1689]

Thank you for posting daddy

[@CarsAndZebras]

You’re definitely welcome, KFC

[@AMCmachine]

Okay...one second....be right back....pants are changed.....done.

[@robcicero8746]

I could do without the Cheeseball humor but the Dart 🎯 is worth a lot more today than the firebird. I have a similar 1969 Dart GTS but mine has the 440 and it’s a hurst 4 speed with a 4.10 Dana 60 rear. It’s best run was 11 seconds 119 mph. I’ve been offered $75,000 for it.

[@livewire2759]

I always go for the underdog... and then realize why it's the underdog.

[@CarsAndZebras]

HA!