Cassandra Caintrospective, Part 3-1 - Atop the Fourth Wall

This episode was split in half. The second half can be found here: • Cassandra Caintrospect...
Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, we conclude the Cassandra Cain retrospective!
atopthefourthwa...
Originally released July 13th, 2019.
ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION: The Cassandra Caintrospective concludes with Justice League Elite, some... questionable creative choices, and a turn around from those choices!
#batman #batgirl #dccomics

[@Lexi_Zone]

"That's why I stopped the continuity alarm gag: people _want_ to learn about comic history!" Taking that knowledge onboard has to be one of your best decisions in refining AT4W, honestly! ♡

[@SuperWolsey]

"You thought Cass would get to 100 issues with her own comic and remain Batgirl... BUT IT WAS I, DIDIO!-"

[@SuperWolsey]

Jon Brewer between this period for Cass and how Devin Grayson* (unknowingly) helped DiDio dismantle Nightwing and Blüdhaven in time for Infinite Crisis only for Waid and Johns to push back against it, the 2000s was a terrible time for the two; same for Tim who stays getting screwed over while the DiDiot and the WB keep shoving St. Damian in pre-2005 stories he wasn't apart of to begin with whether it be The Judas Contract (which got butchered to fit the mandated New 52 aesthetics) or the upcoming Hush. While Beechan made Dick hate her, both Grayson and Kelley Puckett done the opposite; especially the former when Dick trusted Cass to go after Deathstroke in NW #81

[@SuperWolsey]

Jon Brewer re: Damian- goddamn, I wish Quesada and Buckley extended Grant Morrison's contract with them longer than wrecking havoc on the Bat-Fam. Of course, that would mean more X-Men out of him but I'll take more Xorn or Quentin over St. Damian

[@SuperWolsey]

Jon Brewer which pisses me off further and also adds to why I never took to Damian and probably never will unless he gets a sendoff akin to Connor in Angel's S4 finale (only permanent and without Talia or anyone else interfering)

[@SuperSanity1]

@@SuperWolsey Damian doesn't get it any better. He was showing growth, moving along a character arc... But nope. As soon as Super Sons is over what happens? They shuffle him over to Teen Titans and he's suddenly back to step one. More importantly... How did Morrison wreak havoc on the Batfamily? By adding another one? By having more growth for Dick?

[@SuperWolsey]

Robert Gornick Damian is one who shouldn't have been made canon. Plus his continuing existence serve as a further highlight of DiDio's hypocrisy re: Dick who btw already did his tour of wearing the cape and cowl years before so why rehash it now ontop of reviving The Bats of All Nations??

[@misterbubbles6389]

I love how Linkara goes into serious honesty mode about how horrible and damaging fan backlash can be, and that even he himself has been guilty of it, before he digs into why this comic sucks. He's right that Adam Beechan didn't deserve to be threatened or harassed over it since he was handed an assignment he knew absolutely nothing about. This storyline still sucks all kinds of ass, but let's not wish death on the guy for it.

[@SuperWolsey]

Jonathan Eilbeck DiDio sure as shit does though

[@SuperWolsey]

Jon Brewer Unemployment is more fitting for him and Beechan than death threats that can never be carried out. Or outright banned like how Christopher Nolan got away with getting the notorious Jon "Muh SPIDER!!" Peters banned from set of Man of Steel only to get a in name only credit

[@SuperWolsey]

@@jonbrewer297 Lets be real: a TV man had no business being a publisher and a Executive Editor but who's fault for giving him the role? not Jeanette Kahn, not former WB chair/current Disney Studios CEO Alan Horn, but Paul Levitz (who showed how weak a company president he was compared to Kahn's 25 years of strong leadership several times before Horn's boys ousted him but kept Dan)

[@bluestar2059]

About that whole "toxic fanbase" talk, you are absolutely right. Harassment and the like are never acceptable. And as you say, people have the right to demand certain things for their money. They don't have the right to get those things, but they do have the right to demand them. Saying "if you want me to keep buying this comic then you have to make the characters be in character/have a story that makes sense/stop killing off characters for shock value" are things that anyone who has paid for the comic has the right to say. So... I agree with you, don't harass people, but at the same time people don't have to sit in silence and just take subpar products. And yeah, what the actual hell? Why not give the guy working on your comic line the entire run? Say "Here's your research, you start writing for this character/team in two months. Call Jim if you have any questions." Poor Cass, just another name in the loooooong list of characters that have been screwed over by editorial mandate. Looking forward to the next Event Comics Month. Might see something awesome that I track down and read.

[@ilopominecrafter]

Jon Brewer that would work.. but linkara showed that it seemingly might have the opposite effect (he joked about soon there would be issues doing decimal numbers and new 52 did it

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@jonbrewer297 except DCYou was also another failure and didn't work and in fact nobody liked the DCYOU era it was a complete and utter mess

[@SuperWolsey]

Thank you!

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@SuperWolsey your welcome

[@SuperWolsey]

Tevya Smolka Fr. Considering how Beechan still repeats the same mistake with other franchises (oh hai Transformers!*) pretty much intentionally does it. If anything, he's near akin to another poor writer who can't pull off a decent story: Toei writer Kento Shimoyama (Kamen Rider Zi-O, Shuriken Sentai Ninninger, Kyoryuger Brave) *For ironic trivia, DiDio, during his time at MainFrame Entertainment, actively told writers on Beast Machines to not watch the previous shows

[@mcmistle9892]

How dare you Linkara, you think you can quote The Bee Gees and get away with it? You’ll never be as legendary as The Bee Gees!

[@Igarappappa]

Glad that joke never died out.

[@pokemaster123ism]

Bee Gees, my god

[@SwiftGundam]

The first seven minutes were just amazing. Nice rant, Linkara. And your decent down mad rage is simply incredible and completely justified. Seriously, I really like Cassandra Cain and hearing what they’ve done to her. Hate WELL justified.

[@godzillavkk]

This is much better then your other rants in other episodes of AT4W and History of Power Rangers. I'm also surprised you've never mentioned about how toxic fans also go after fans who like the materials they hate. I don't even think this is a rant, more of a frustrated explanation. Keep it going, Louis.

[@shinjojin]

After hearing and seeing how Cass was portrayed in the Birds of prey movie, I came to realize that DC and Warner bros really doesn't give enough of a flying crap about her to even get a filmmaker that will do a faithful version of her, which is very upsetting.

[@jfdrac]

i knew there would be a poroblemn when you had 5 characters to introiduce

[@SteveCrafts2k]

What did they do to Cass?

[@StealthMarmot_]

​@SteveCrafts2k Basically, the character in the movie has nothing to do with the comic character. The character in the movie was a young street urchin pickpocket who talked normally and had no combat skills. The character was fine, but had zero to do with Cassandra Cain. Basically they just grabbed her name out of a hat. I can't even say they ruined Cassie, cause the character was so far divorced from this version that aside from being a young Asian girl, they have nothing in common.

[@SchazmenRassir]

Why the hell are people given projects they know nothing about? And why, at the very freaking LEAST, do those people NOT. DO. RESEARCH?!

[@FuelDropforthewin]

Yeah, reading a comic book series in prep for writing something isn't exactly impossible. Citation: Linkara does it to write these retrospectives! More than that, in most cases you could probably get in contact with the previous writer and maybe get them to put together a brief writing guide touching on the core elements of a character to prevent... well, this.

[@hitomisalazar4073]

Entirely depends on how the assignment was handed out. I've had assignments myself that amounted to: "Oh Jim dropped the ball and we need someone to fill in. You got a weekend to do something from scratch." It sounds silly... but that kind of thing happens. If the book was behind schedule, if they were filling in last minute, or hell just their boss said: "I want you to do this"... can't really blame the guy for having a bad hand dealt. It's one of those silly things. Editors for instance, are massively important in creative projects like comics, novels, heck even news articles. There is that reason almost any novel includes in its acknowledgements "my editor". But if the Editor messes up? Well it's not the editor who's butt is on the line for it. An example of this action? C.S. Goto's "Dawn of War" tie in novels. We know from various interviews he was handed this last minute. Basically told: "Get me a draft of this in 5 days" as a last minute thing to fit the deadlines to release alongside the video game. And it's terrible, terrible stuff. C.S. Goto's name is the one that is dragged down through the mud by those terrible novels. But there's a lot of good stories he's written like "Trial of the Mantis Warriors" in the same IP that shows he can in fact do good stories. But a lot of things that people call out as terrible and C.S. Goto's fault, are things that editors should be catching and correcting. Things like... vehicles changing shape in a page (mentioning it is one vehicle then saying it was another before going back to the first, that's an editor's job to catch), or "this item doesn't actually work like that". So I always keep things like that in mind when people go to slag the authors. Because... if their boss told them "You have to write a storyline where Cassandra becomes an evil assassin with a personal grudge who monologues and such"... well... they kinda had their hand in a vice there. Or if the editor just never went: "You know... this really isn't in character, maybe you should go back to the drawing board or alter these details so it's not as bad a slap to the face?" as they should... kinda setting them up for failure in a way where the Editor will never take the blame for completely failing to do their job properly.

[@MegamanNG]

Your speech in the beginning can really relate to other things as well whether it be comics, TV, etc. It's really well done I will say since honestly, companies being run by creative people and not business hurts it in the long run.

[@BoldAndBrash5683]

It’s partially why I’ll always advocate for both to be in the room when deals are struck. You have the realism of “What’s going to market well and can make this profitable?” alongside “What can we do with these characters in particular?”

[@MegamanNG]

@@BoldAndBrash5683 Exactly.

[@WraithTDK]

Of the three thousand comics I own, and the thousands more I've read, Superman #775, *What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and The American Way* is hands down the best single-issue comic I've ever read. An entirely self-contained comic in an era where everything was about big events, it felt like I was reading a movie. And it said everything I'd been trying to tell people since the mid 90's about why Superman was still cool despite the outcries at the time of "he's not dark enough!" Love that story.

[@sarafontanini7051]

even ignoring the whole 'cassandra is suddenly evil for no reason' eyah this is a mess. the navajo thing has been brought up and explained, so let's get into some other stuff. Cassandra killing people is 1) very against her character due to her past and 2) was even part of her storyline in her book where she came to a conclusion that didn't involve becoming a crazy, cackling, smirking murderer. David Cain was very much NOT a loving father and was shown to be basically a sociopath, and Cassandra had written him off like less than halfway through her comic, so him suddenly showing some compassion for his daughter and cass becoming OBSESSED with him loving her basically contradicts a LOT of shit. And yes, the writer ended up just trying to restate in a different way things that were already said and known, Cassandra had ALREADY dealt with her father having other 'children' and she didn't go crazy. And then there's the league of assassins....why? WHy would Cassandra take over the league of assassins? It makes no sense and doesn't really go anywhere so...why?

[@legomaniac213]

In all honesty, it would have made way more sense for the big bad to be Analia (or however you spell it). Have her be mad that she was discarded despite all the suffering she went through and was jealous of Cass becoming Cain's "favorite." She gets the idea to frame Cass, take over the League of Assassins, and eventually kill Cass so she can prove she's better in Cain's eyes.

[@earthbound9999]

God revisiting the villain Cass stuff is depressing.

[@alexandergonyea4642]

Seriously! I mean, God I knew it was bad, but actually reading what it classified as "dialogue" from Cass for the first time here in full was honestly painful!

[@nakenmil]

This is the first time I have the full context for this, and Jesus Christ it makes it so much worse.

[@earthbound9999]

It gets even worse if you look at how badly the bat family treated her after her redemption. They'd ignore her and tell her that she's not trustworthy. DC is definitely treating Cass better now than they were then, but that's not exactly a high bar to pass.

[@SnowyWolborg]

This...version of Cassandra Cain should join the likes of Crazy Steve and Bonkers Betty. That's how completely OOC she is.

[@thewoollyviking5928]

The speech Linkara made concerning toxic fandoms really resonated with me. When I was younger I too was very much in a sense of fan entitlement. I objected to a creative decision I felt was stupid and I’ll freely admit it made me come off very much like a legitimate scumbag (I thankfully never threatened or harassed anyone, but I did act like a dick) Although I still maintain that opinion now, I do try to be conscious of my actions. Nothing screws up a good thing like a toxic fan base. But that doesn’t mean the thing you love was ever bad. I just need to understand that we are just consumers. We need to speak with our wallets when we find a product we don’t like, even if it does have a beloved name attached.

[@TitaniaBird]

And strangely timely, given what's gone on in the Pokemon fandom lately...

[@TitaniaBird]

@@jonbrewer297 I meant what i said. Don't put words in my mouth, and don't try to draw me into a controversy of which I have already grown tired.

[@rebornkusabi7264]

@JR Keil Yeah, I've thankfully seriously never been an entitled fan somehow (and certainly never wished death upon a creator) and the amount of insanity around the new Pokemon is staggering. It's the first Pokemon I'll be playing since Platinum and the toxicity around has made me kinda wonder if Pokemon fans are all entitled children.

[@thewoollyviking5928]

@@rebornkusabi7264 From what I've heard, they basically cut out have the content of their game. I haven't played since X and Y. Game Freak will listen if nobody goes out to buy it...

[@cui8789]

Your comment about Cain sleeping with Cheshire also reminds me that DC has a really disturbing trend of having half-Asian kids whose Asian moms are either dead or villains. Seriously, in addition to Cass, we have Damian Wayne, Rose Wilson, Lian Harper, Traci 13 and the more recent example of Emiko Queen. It's a really troubling and racist trend, especially given the Asian mother is never allowed to be a living and positive presence in their kids lives. The only examples counter to this I know of are Linda Park when she and Wally had kids and the YJ version of Paula Nguyen who is a reformed villain. Maybe that show's version of Jade too given she's a lot more nuanced than the dragon lady stereotype from the comics.

[@smjaiteh]

What depresses me about the comics crash is that if it wasn’t for the movies, they’d have been completely destroyed. Video games are now doing the exact same things that caused the Comics crash to begin with (shifting almost all monetization to whales over new customers, shrinking audiences, volatile venture capital investing, etc), and we only got our first good video game movie this year.

[@Wobble9000]

I remember Cassandra’s villain turn during your top 15 worst heroes turn villains, time does fly. EDIT: Oh boy, Can’t wait for heroes in crisis discussion

[@emmamacfarlane8137]

You know, I remember thinking to myself that the only positive point of Heroes in Crisis was that we'd later get to see it torn apart here.

[@KidSnivy69]

The next Event Comics Month is going to be the bomb!

[@darkmage07070777]

Oh god...it's finally happening. He's finally talking about IT. Cassandra's darkest moment. I am both excited and terrified all at once.

[@ConorCarlisle]

I loved your monologue about Toxic Fandoms and how we should be better. I've felt that way myself for a long time.

[@richmcgee434]

Please tell me the Infinity Gauntlet cookie recipe was a ginger snap.

[@rwg6357]

When Green Arrow Rebirth ended... A line was said that stuck out to me... "Green Arrow was Cancelled to serve the Larger Narrative Needs of the DC Universe" These Needs are the Reason Cass was made pretty much Teenage Lady Shiva cause They wanted to give Tim his own Catwoman... 'Lets save talk of the Batfamily incest fro later. Why Owen Mercer The guy that got kicked out of the suicide squad for being too decent a person and Supergirl's' Boomer' suddenly in Blackest night is feeding women and children to his Black Lantern Father... just to justify why he has to die and Why Hank Hall had a year's worth of character development thrown out the window just so he could be the surprise villain in Armageddon 2001

[@jasminemiller7485]

Before you say it, YES THE THUMBNAIL IS A JOJO REFERENCE.

[@rikukicksass07]

WRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[@TheAwakeOrangutang]

OHHHHH NOOOOO!

[@alchemicpunk1509]

Was that a Hellsing Ultimate Abridged reference?!

[@jasminemiller7485]

@@alchemicpunk1509 Sort of. I was trying to beat the comment section to the punch. But thinking back, yeah. I might have referenced team four star without realizing it.

[@sussyangel7492]

Because Deadpool is Dio in Japanese and he briefly became Cassandra's father and taught her how to scream "WRYYYY!!!"

[@SirPaladin]

I thought Robin's Batarang counterparts were called "Birdarangs."

[@dragonsword8129]

I guess that doesn't count for the R-shaped ones.

[@johnmcclure40]

Well, when you have a theme, it's an easy way to put your brand on stuff.

[@davindean6780]

They are called that in Teen Titans Go

[@TheJaranggigi]

Seriously, how many assassin's DID David Cain bang to set this up? Was that his actually specialty as a killer, being a honeystick for other professionals? David Cain: Assassin Gigolo doesn't have quite the same ring as Cassandra Cain: Batgirl.

[@emilybridges6230]

On a somewhat related and funny note, after 17:12 was said, I immediately thought "Gang bang...? More like Cain bang." Maybe that could be David Cain: Assassin Gigolo's slogan! :D

[@DeathofInk]

I hate what they did to Cass here so much. She's a hero always will be.

[@תומרכץ-ש2ר]

Big BIG like on your beginning speech about the comics industry (and the flaws of managment by creative people instead of buisness people) AND on your speech about toxic fan backlash.

[@IzzuZiq]

So from what I'm getting, Marvel and DC suck at promoting their comic books, but Marvel is only slightly better for giving more effort despite only being SLIGHTLY better

[@joe95883]

It feels slightly confusing.

[@ToonGrin]

Well DC suffers from creatives in charge and not businessmen. Marvel suffers from trend and film following and at times the reverse where a business controls over creativity. Plus just a sense of arrogance. Like they believe that they don't reboot when they do it's just much more subtly hidden. They don't do a huge event that wipes the slate clean like DC. Rather their creatives just ignore history to such a degree that certain properties are rebooted but there is just know corporate acknowledgment or populace acknowledgment that it IS a reboot.

[@ToonGrin]

Strange enough that's a business mentality, not a creative mentality. Batman is their most popular property. So it stands to reason from a business perspective, make more sell more. But also ya know... costs more... which I guess slipped their noodle because they don't seem to realize that? They flood their market with a lot of Batman titles and it really screws up the whole "shared universe all the same character" jargon, because writers aren't engaging with one another between titles so designs to personalities shift on a dime. Well, the Marvel films are all predicated on "wide audience appeal" its why they are as generic as possible. Because it's expensive to invest in films, thus they play it safe, don't experiment and keep it at the bare minimum and it works for them. That's a business perspective. Doom Patrol, that's a creative perspective. utilizing themes of surrealism, identity, personal redemption and out their concepts.

[@OnDavidsBrain]

Ah yes, we finally get to the reason why Cassandra toped the list of your Top 15 Worst Heroes becoming villains thousands of years ago, Adam Beechen's run.

[@jameshowlett5106]

I gotta say, I'm not gay... but goddamn, Lewis looks hot with those new glasses.

[@Pikachu2Ash]

The ambiguously gay duo!!!

[@ToonGrin]

Don't need to be gay to appreciate beauty.

[@CaptainJZH]

Am gay, can confirm

[@johannesmakila2459]

That rant from you about how some fans treat people involved with something that they don't like before you got brutally honest about this storyline was spot on as was of course that said brutal honesty. We need more sensible people like you in comic book fandom and any other geek orientated fandom in that matter that while aren't afraid to be honest when it comes to they opinions about these things they don't act all toxic and entitled either.

[@NoahDaArk]

What I appreciate about this is the fact you didn’t try to elevate yourself above the fans that dish out threats. You included yourself among them because you yourself are also prone to it as much as I am. Your credibility has risen just by that statement alone and I appreciate it

[@ZekeStaright]

oof... Thinking back on Superman vs the Elite. The episode of the 90's cartoon where he doesn't hold back against Darkseid was pretty fucking amazing, even when Superman drops Darkseid at the feet of Apocalypse's people & they all help him up showing Kal that if you help a place that has nowhere to go or no way to help themselves, they'll stand under a tyrant.

[@HerroShad3]

Oh, I can't wait for Linkara to rip Heroes in Crisis a new one, it started off interesting but damn did it fall apart in the worse possible ways imaginable.

[@Maximus4587]

_Heroes in Crisis_ was basically 9 issues of Dan DiDio and Tom King shitting all over Wally West.

[@isaiahkayode6526]

But hey Bros before Heroes

[@joshuaingobo1559]

At 2:25, Marvel TL;DR returned with a new episode as far as I know.

[@patrickcoyle5469]

"Doing it for the art" is all fine and good... until you need the resources to publish and distribute your work. Very much agreed with your opening rant - heartless business executives get a lot of blame for screwing over some works, but they also maintain the machinery that keeps many others going strong when their creators would have let it all fall apart. Idealistic artists and pragmatic number-crunchers have to go hand in hand to produce the best material.

[@DarthArachnious]

Cassandra becoming leader of the League of Assassins was revealed in Supergirl. They couldn't figure out what to do with 16 year old Kara Zor-El. So let's have her fight Batgirl.

[@LaNoLaCola]

Supergirl v Batgirl: Dawn of out of ideas

[@TevyaSmolka]

JasCotton supergirl v Batgirl running out of good ideas just keep making bad ideas.

[@isaiahkayode6526]

@@TevyaSmolka And then they Rebooted

[@TevyaSmolka]

Isaiah Kayode yup indeed and you’re right about that and man that sucked that they rebooted her.

[@CommanderShepard341]

First there was Crazy Steve, now there's Kooky Cass

[@samuelbarber6177]

That speech about Fan backlash really resonated me. My favourite TV Series is Doctor Who, and I’ve honestly become disillusioned with the fandom for it since the most recent seasons. I don’t have a problem with people disliking a storyline or character or whatever, but wishing ill on the creators, actors, or even others who like it, especially when you’re being dishonest about the content, or simply trying to make a political point is just makes you look like the bad guy, and cheapens any actual criticism you or others may have, as it makes it more likely that the creators will think: “Ah, the people who dislike this story are just screaming cry babies. No need to listen to them.” And nothing will change.

[@user-dh1un9lk9f]

You know, this seems like good a time as any to say: Linkara, the quality and attention to detail to your work is something to be greatly applauded. This retrospective is amazing! The fact that you put out such in depth, comprehensive videos EVERY WEEK, is just fantastic.

[@Igarappappa]

Nice job on calling out fan backlash. There is a clear line between voicing distaste/dislike regarding a piece of fiction and going completely off the rails and turning into a cyber-bully/stalker.

[@theblazingflareon830]

Did... did one of the writers mix in a fanfic with the script for the comics, and was too ashamed to admit it?

[@fictionfan3699]

That is an insult to the good well written fanfics. At least they would give a clear explanation and build up.

[@kemboi69]

That speech you gave on fan backlash was just great. Far too often there’s a disproportionate response to something that goes wrong be it in games, movies, comics or just something a creator said. As for Cass turning evil this is probably the most aggravating kind of twist for me. Throwing a character’s good nature and them trying to overcome their issues that are dragging them down to say their evil at their core despite that making no sense. It makes it seem like if a character has any kind of emotional baggage that will make them turn evil and spit in the face of everything they believe in which is just a really gross way of looking at things if you ask me.

[@BartmanBegins]

The Top 15 Worst Heroes Becoming Villains was the very first AT4W episode I've ever watched 10 years ago. As such, it's a delight for me to hear you talk about Cassandra as a villainess again after all these years.

[@silentpaw]

Wow, I still need to get used to your new glasses.

[@shadowlinkbds]

Give it time. After all we always have to get use to his wardrobe changes.

[@Mobysimo]

And now it looks like what happened to Cass is happening to Damian DC has learned nothing

[@sussyangel7492]

Cassie: Eren. 💋 Tim: 👁️👄👁️

[@mttylerdurden9]

You know what I would have done instead of make Cassandra evil? I would have had a alternate dimension Cassandra who escaped her dimension during infinite crisis, kidnapped the real Cassandra, and took her place until the real Cassandra breaks free and beats her

[@Artista_Frustrado]

i mean, they pretty much wrote Bizarro Cassandra so why the heck not

[@sarafontanini7051]

didn't they do that in SPider Gwen with AU Silk?

[@leephillips4402]

Sounds a lot like secret empire

[@TevyaSmolka]

Mike Manhattan that’s actually not a bad idea

[@sussyangel7492]

@@sarafontanini7051 A Kryptonian imprisoned and enslaved a Mutant for 19 years for stealing a Loaf of Bread.

[@Lightice1]

This is basically a summary for why I barely read any superhero comics, any more. They are capable of producing imaginative, compelling storylines and interesting, relatable characters, but whenever they do, they inevitably screw themselves up at some point in a desperate attempt to keep an unending narrative going on for eternity. A story that sprawls in every direction at once and doesn't have any kind of defined ending is doomed to collapse under its own weight, and it's all the more painful to watch if you've grown fond of some part of it. So, the only kind of superhero story that I'm willing to read any more is a finished, self-contained storyline that doesn't veer off the rails at the last juncture. And those are such a rarity, these days...

[@paulgibbon5991]

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got for comics was "Follow creators, not characters."

[@michaelk8860]

You've talked about toxic fandoms/the sense of entitlement in several videos I've seen throughout my nearly non-stop binging of your videos, and I wanted to mention here - because of how eloquently it was stated - that I concur. The harassment / abuse / threatening of creators, directors, writers, actors that produce content (with the exclusions you've mentioned) is definitely, in your words "not cool", "disgusting", and not OK. I have seen some of my favorite characters, story lines, and franchises be ret-conned and/or shifted in various directions that were stomach turning, frustrating, infuriating, etc., and I will defend my right and the rights of others to rage against it with burning vitriol - because it's something we love / loved, and when we see something we love being (in our eyes) hurt or destroyed, that is an expected reaction. However, to reiterate your point, it is NEVER ok to take it out on others. So thank you, Linkara, for once again stating all of the above in different words and allowing me to cathartically express my agreement.

[@keiththompson9435]

So it has came to pass. Cassandra’s Heel Turn. Poor Beechen. I’m sorry for how blinded by rage.

[@tf2godz]

Who watches the top of fourth wall videos at 3 a.m.? Me: oh boy 3 am Edit: I'm really baffled why comic book companies keep doing this, "We turning a well-established character into a villain for the 78th time and it has caused so much backlash we've had to retcon it 2 weeks later but if we do it the 79th time to another beloved character it will be a great story." For the love of God stop doing this comic book publishers

[@toyscourge4983]

I still miss the alarm. But you did get me back into comics, aaaaaages age. I think I’ve been watching for about 7 years now. Don’t stop, ever

[@171QA]

Glad you addressed the whole thing about fan backlash and how its a double-edged sword.

[@macuna1995]

It's moments like these that help me feel relieved that DC hasn't brought back Brother Power The Geek and Prez Rickard. I fear so much harm will come to them.

[@joshuamain5083]

God, the thought of a new Brother Power book done well just sounds amazing. But it's such an easy character to screw up too so yeah it would probably be best to keep him where he is.

[@KidSnivy69]

Don't jinx it

[@rossman8919]

i heard the most recent prez book was good

[@macuna1995]

Yeah, I have my own trade paperback copy. It's really amazing.

[@tannerprice2018]

Batman knows Navajo? I mean, I know he’s the world’s greatest detective, but still.

[@BigAmericanGirlFan]

The only ones of that family who might know Navajo are Dick and Jason and that's because they're friends with Roy and he was raised on the Navajo reservation and learned the language and possibly taught them.

[@georgejoestarii9469]

​@@BigAmericanGirlFan Sloppy Moe said to Cassandra Cain "I know something I won't tell. I won't tell". That secret is that Navajo is a difficult language. Reference: Looney Tunes Injun Joe episode

[@treyurbach2550]

O, i SOOO cannot wait for your review of Heroes in Crisis. Wally West is one of my favorite characters and definitely my favorite Flash. Hearing you tear this awful comic apart shall be Christmas come early. I will even say I hate Heroes in Crisis more than One More Day. And I LOVED Peter and MJ being married.

[@TevyaSmolka]

same here ;)

[@Captain8ball]

17:50 she becomes like literally unrecognizable, she doesn’t act like Cassandra Cain, she doesn’t look like her, and she doesn’t feel like Cassandra Cain. That’s why I’ve had a hard time believing this to this day

[@Volthoom]

The continuity alarm gag was pretty damn funny though, so was "TIIIME FOOOR BAACKSTOORY". Even though you going in-depth on backstories is legitimately awesome, i kinda miss both of them :D.

[@weareallbronies9031]

You got me into comics Lewis. Thank you for helping me find new appreciation for this wonderful medium.

[@johnoneil9188]

"What´s so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way" was I think one of the first comics I ever read. It was included in a collection of Superman comics brought to us by a German news paper company. They did the same for, Spiderman and others to kind of raise awareness for comics just as the Marvel movies were starting or even before that. I really liked that story and it was less emotionally wrenching than over in the Spidey one where the most recent comic was one about the immediate aftermath and destruction of 9/11. Comics did not really grip me back then though, it would just happen later after watching your show that I gave it a shot. Now I got a box and a subscription and everything.

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

I think it's safe to say Linkara is officially one of us, now. He's a JoBro. VICTORY SCREEEEEEEEECH! _WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!_

[@StruggrlingCreatively]

Just Some Guy with a Mustache one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us

[@azurai3934]

MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA

[@AT4W]

I am not. As I need to keep reminding people, Dr. Crafty does the cards with minimal input from me on what I'm talking about. He is the massive JoJo fan who keeps making said JoJo references, sorry.

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@AT4W awww that's a shame, cause JoJo is very....comic booky in the best kinds of ways (and also the worst, dumbest ways too, admittedly >.>)

[@TevyaSmolka]

Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall i can understand that

[@TevyaSmolka]

The sad thing is though editorial keeps sabotaging a lot of my favorite characters like Cassandra Cane Batgirl Wally west flash Superboy Jonathan Samuel Kent Superboy by aging him up for bullshit and making Wally West flash into a killer for bullshit reasons and the list goes on and on.

[@Arsio12]

This was actually my very first exposure to Cassandra Cain, this weird moustache twirling villain, and it left an impression on me of not really caring about her. Stephanie was my favourite Batgirl, I always knew Cassandra had a large fanbase but never read any of the earlier or even later books with her in it to form an opinion. Then I read a book she was in in Rebirth, and now this retrospective and I really realise how much I missed out on this character.

[@Lazarus1095]

Look, this story has an easy way out. Just bear with me.... Cassandra.... Was a skrull. Problem SOLVED.

[@Pikachu2Ash]

Sorry wrong universe.

[@ZiggyWSB]

Skrulls are from Marvel

[@sarafontanini7051]

no here's how you solve it it never happened, just like Mister Freeze's wife becoming a supervillain

[@Dracinard]

@Pikachu2Ash @ZiggyWSB Good point. Cass being a Skrull would not work in continuity. OK, can still make this work. Hear me out - Cass was actually a Cylon.

[@azozazoz2131]

If that's Marvel references, that's actually clever and funny If that's Disney's MCU references,......meh.

[@spdrwrtr]

If nothing else I'd LOVE to see you tear Heroes in Crisis APART. SCREW THAT BOOK! It's TERRIBLE!

[@patrickpugh7495]

I actually enjoyed the book except for the murder of a bunch of interesting characters (specifically arsenal) and who the murderer turned out to be (no I'm not spoiling it despite it being stupid and against their character) but seriously everything else besides that was pretty well written.

[@Maximus4587]

In my honest opinion, _Heroes in Crisis_ is the worst thing published by DC Comics since _Countdown to Final Crisis._ *Yeah. I'm actually going there...*

[@nobody2996]

Oh, common, it can't be that- ... ... ... WHAT THE FUCK, WALLY!?

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@patrickpugh7495 I enjoyed the artwork of the book... Bu my problem is is (apart of the obvious) are: - The heroes investigating technically speaking did nothing. Booster Gold at best was the only one who had relevance to the story. because at the end Wally Westconvinced himself of facing trial for his murders. so the heroes did (Play the clip) ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! - There were better ways for wally to be the culprit. for example, that so racked up in guilt, about not knowing were his family is or being incapable of making Linda remmeber, that using that network simulation and trying to learn how to do robotics, he tried to keep "robot clones" of his family alive using the speed force . but his emotions kinda tainted the speed force (the inverse of how sometimes negatie speed force is protrayed in other media) and caused the robot doubles to go insane and tried to kill the heroes thinking "reality gets shifted. we are all less than nothing". and wally tries to cover up that becasue well, he knows the robots are copies, but is the best he has that resembles his family who, by all accounts could have been retgoned out of existance while he was in Sanctuary. Is not better but at least is something, that could make more sense than what we got

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@Darth_ Madara I can bet you is gonna be EITHER Heroes Reborn or Secret Empire (that last one i give it a 7/10) for Event Comics Month

[@samflood5631]

If you think the backlash for Cassandra Cain’s character assassination was bad. Then you have seen the backlash over Stephanie Brown’s death. And Lelise Tompkins’ character assassination. You remember that terrible Batman war games story arc? That story was criticized for Stephanie’s victimization and torture as she was posing sexually while Black Mask was torturing her. And to aid insult to injury, everyone in the Bat family blames Stephanie for starting the Gotham Gang War and some of the fans treated her like she was hitler, without knowing that the whole thing was totally out of Stephanie’s control. And Stephanie dies from her injuries because Lelise Tompkins basically denied medical treatment that could have saved her life just to teach Batman a lesson for recruiting teenagers into his war against crime, even though most of those teens volunteered because they want to make Gotham a better place. This story arc was so horrible and so deposed at the time, DC decided to retcon the whole thing and made that Lelise fake Stephanie’s death and hid her in Africa for a year until the whole Crime Family fiasco died down.

[@Ekami-chan]

These retrospectives are so good, I don't even read comics, but it still made me form an opinion of Cas based on this alone, in my opinion by itself Cas taking over the league of assassin's wasn't a bad idea, like you said, it could have created an interesting storyline as there was the frustrations she had in her own series to use as a jumping point...But yeah, her just wanting to kill randomly and ranting to her dad is just against her character, I guess the idea was "because she's a leader of league of assassin's, now she must be completely evil!"? Most frustrating thing about any story is wasted potential, when it brings up a good idea, but then writer(s) don't utilize that idea, or completely shoot themselves in the foot, which can be a thin line.

[@rdfox76]

This is about where I came in, too. I remember discussing this stuff with you and espanolbot on the old Superdickery forums. I still miss Casstoons... never did manage to get around to that Crisis of Infinite Squirrels I wanted to see about writing for ebot. Good times, man. Good times. (At least, as far as ranting about horrible creative decisions ruining many of DC's best characters could be...)

[@shadowlinkbds]

Yeah I wondered what happened to the continunity alarm gag. Now I know. And knowing is half the battle.

[@MrXemnas1992]

I feel like that talk about fan backlash/entitlement was a torpedo directed at #bringbackthenationaldex & the black ariel controversy and i salute you for it.

[@Zeturic]

I'm not really familiar with Cassandra beyond "she was a Batgirl", so I definitely didn't know this was coming. Wow.

[@skyslasher2297]

17:43 your right Cass once a killer always a killer hey hows Alpha doing recently or did you kill him too

[@kaihedgie1747]

Yes, please do Heroes in Crisis x:

[@Maximus4587]

I hope Linkara burns the eventual trade paperback, because _Heroes in Crisis_ is probably the worst comic published by DC since _Countdown to Final Crisis..._

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@Maximus4587 also don't forget about futures end which is also another of the worst comics published by DC comics.

[@Maximus4587]

@@TevyaSmolka _The New 52: Future's End_ is pretty much "Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: The Comic".

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@Maximus4587 indeed and that awful story nearly caused me to quit dc comics as a whole by killing off one of my all time favorite characters Terry mcginiss batman beyond

[@TevyaSmolka]

Sparten 117 yup and I am so happy about that

[@OmegaGameDude]

Wow. DC really dropped the ball with poor Cassandra....just wow

[@sussyangel7492]

She just vanished.

[@HELLO_KORO]

@@sussyangel7492 she's still around but just not as used since DC barely advertises anything that isn't The trinity

[@godzillamoraga]

I really enjoy these retrospectives, you have been doing amazing work sir. Major Props

[@gennybaratta2460]

Linkara’s breakdown/mini-stroke/whatever when it’s reveled that Bruce taught Cass Navajo is one of the funniest things I’ve seen in a while

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

And yeah, I love you for continuing to talk about comics. It's sad when the comic book industry is going to the crapper.

[@odinkiller727]

It was you and comicsexplained that got me into comics

[@javodey]

That was a good speech on toxic fanbases, Linkara. On a side note: WRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

[@darkmage07070777]

18:00 - ...so I had to pause the video before Linkara could really start voicing his thoughts because I was starting to have flashbacks to Noha's old Ultima 9 review. I'll sum up my thoughts thus: BEEEEEEEEEEETRAAAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

[@daelen.cclark]

Comic companies (all of them) need to get a complete overhaul on their promotions and marketing so people can actually read it. (Just saying; when Archie is better at appealing to people outside of comic stores, you’re doing something wrong.)

[@KertaDrake]

Of course! Batman taught them Navajo in case they ever had to deal with skinwalkers! It only makes sense to be prepared!

[@SuperWolsey]

Re: Navajo- might be off but the only character I could see doing that would be Roy Harper given his time on reservation before ever meeting Ollie

[@gennybaratta2460]

kory stephens well him and Lain

[@krvys7226]

It's 1:30 in the morning, and of course this comes out now. Well, guess I'm up for at least another half hour

[@carlrood4457]

I started reading comics in 1985, right smack in the middle of Crisis on Infinite Earths & Secret Wars II. At the time, DC was also publishing Who's Who & Marvel their Deluxe Handbook to the Marvel Universe. Both were encyclopedia's of all their characters. DC stuck to single page blurbs of the basics, while Marvel went into more (in some cases too much ) detail. They were a great tool for figuring this stuff out. You don't really need that with the internet, but it was a great promotion.

[@AquaLantern]

Thanks to that rant in the beginning, soon after this episode, Marvel and DC would begin a cutthroat bidding contest on who would be able to pay Linkara more money to review their comics exclusively to boost their company's sales!

[@camerongrow6426]

As someone who read this story without knowing too much about Cassie's backstory, I can confirm that it was just as frustrating then as it was after she became my favorite Batgirl.

[@thepikamence1250]

Forgive me if I'm making a controversial statement, but I feel that Cass leading the League of Assassins *could* have worked without destroying her character with a few key choices on the writer's part. 1. Have her continue to be a hero and try to reform the League into a force for good. We get a very good example of a situation like this happening in the Elseworlds story "Superman and Batman: Generations", where a major plot point involves Bruce Wayne taking over the League after Ra's al Ghul dies, slowly converting the underground criminal empire into a legitimate humanitarian organization that is beneficial to society. Marvel even tried a similar tactic by having Daredevil lead the Hand for a time, and it only went south because Matt was possessed by a demon in the event "Shadowland". Cass could have been written in this story as remaining an ally of the Bat-Family while using the League to help fight crime, restraining the members when they're about to use lethal force. 2. Cut back on the near-constant monologuing. Even if there *was* a justifiable reason for Cass to make a heel turn, we have to remember that one of the character's most important traits is her disability, for lack of a better term. Granted, she can speak, but being reared almost entirely on interpreting body language instead of written or spoken language, can make the task quite difficult for her; when she does speak, she doesn't use very many words and makes her statements terse or brief. Ignoring that means cutting out part of what makes her story so relatable, as a character whose arc revolves around learning to overcome that disability is bound to strike a chord with fans, especially those who suffer from similar disabilities themselves. 3. Properly depict her relationship with David Cain. Cass has suffered a long history of abuse at the hands of her father in his attempts to mold her into a living weapon, which serves to make her backstory all the more tragic. We see her struggle with this relationship in her solo series, as well as the concept of having a loving father figure in general; although Batman is hardly a good father by any stretch, as seen with his fallacies in raising Jason Todd, Damian Wayne, and many of his young sidekicks in general, it is generally accepted that he is at least preferable to Cain as a surrogate parent for Cass, and some works have her take the Wayne family name as a sign of moving on from her dark past in a sense. It makes no sense for her to be basically written as a yandere for her father as it ignores how she has grown past his attempts to control her life or for Cain to be written as a sympathetic victim as that ignores how he was an abusive parent in the first place.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

18:15 LEARN OF FAN BACKLASH 23:40 OH YES! WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT A YEAR TO SEE HEROES IN CRISIS HERE!

[@cowboyquebecanimations3068]

To be fair on the Big Two's youtube channels, there are already "who is" character history video by fans who've track down the comics from issue to issue

[@magnusprime962]

20:30 It’s the old adage, “Hate the sin, not the sinner.” Yeah, the writer may have made a decision you don’t like. That doesn’t entitle you to harass them, but you are still entitled to your opinion and you have a right to say that this story sucks and that the writer doesn’t understand the character.

[@brigidmadden5577]

Her having a breaking point involving her realizing more kids were fucked up by Cain could’ve worked. Cas could’ve had a breakdown at the realization that she, a barely literate girl who’s life purpose is to beat the shit out of people was the best case scenario with Cain’s plan. She should’ve said that she initially got comfort from knowing that she was probably the one who got the brunt of the abuse and her siblings may have gotten away, but after seeing her sister who was murdered, she realizes that no matter how bad the abuse was, Cain forever ruined all of their lives and they may never ever have normal comfortable lives. No “He only loved me” bullshit, have her say “You never loved me! You only kept me because I was obedient!”.

[@jakejutras5420]

Agreed with your other viewers who say you got them into comics, you helped me rekindle my interest.

[@Pixeljaegerin]

Your new glasses are awesome! Totally agree with your rant at the start and add me to the pile of people you got into comics. Thanks. :P

[@DarthArachnious]

Adam Beecham redeamed himself with his run on Batman Beyond. As far as I'm concerned.

[@KidSnivy69]

I doubt nowadays Beecham irredeabile

[@SeadogDriftwood]

Giant… ferret… The sweetness! THE SWEETNESS!!! I need a copy of that page. I'd frame it.

[@FBH991]

I don't understand how a company can't make like, the full solo series of a character available to someone writing that character.

[@Dannypuck]

I was hoping a Combine Harvester freakout was coming after his Cassie rant.

[@Elfos64]

I've felt that way about TV show characters, but not a book character to my memory. For example Gizmoduck from Duck Tales and then later on Darkwing Duck. Fenton Crackshell (Gizmoduck's alter ego) started working for Scrooge McDuck as an accountant because he was miserable at his dead-end previous job as a literal bean counter, he wanted to rise up and do something more with his life- yet still wanted to make use of his savant instant counting skill. He thought working for someone as prestigious and adventurous as Scrooge might accomplish that, and while in Scrooge's employ kind of fell into being the Money Bin Guard and corporate superhero too. He took the job so much to heart because saving the day gave him the higher sense of self-worth and the admiration of the Townspeople (and his employer) that he wanted- NOT out of a hero complex or sense of civic duty. He did heroic things outside of his hired duty to guard the Money Bin (even when he couldn't use the suit that gave him his powers) because it earned him respect and fulfillment, and it could be argued that it was an extension of his employment anyway because Scrooge owned like half the city and it wouldn't be good for his businesses if a bunch of his buildings and customers, not to mention his employees and family were in danger. But when he appeared In Darkwing Duck- screw all that humanizing struggle with self worth and fulfillment trying to make a mark on the world with a selfish yet altruistic motive nonsense, he's just a goody two-shoes now who ventures way outside his post for no apparent reason. BULLSHIT. They ruined a relatable character into a generic dime-a-dozen do-gooder. And then there's Ever After High. Started off as a surprisingly mature faction war between a life where they always know what they're doing (without stumbling around blindly trying to figure out what they should do) and having the freedom to forge their own path- not letting anyone else determine it for them; which revolved around whether they signed a Magic Macguffin called the Storybook of Legends. Neither faction was explicitly framed as in the wrong, they both had their reasons. But then the mouthpiece of the the latter faction, Raven Queen, was forced into a scenario where she had to sign the Book to unlock her true power to overcome a greater threat. However, doing so would mean accepting the destiny she'd explicitly set out to avoid, she'd effectively lock herself into that path and remove any chance of deviation. The destiny laid out before her was to become a powerful Sorceress, a powerful EVIL sorceress who would betray her best friend Apple White and be defeated by the hero prince resulting in imprisonment (never mind that Apple _wanted_ to be betrayed because meeting her hero prince and having her happily ever after was contingent on the betrayal, Raven getting the short end not withstanding). But *somehow* Raven overcame SEALING HER FATE with... willpower I guess, aided by her friends talking some sense into her at the last moment. BULLSHIT! If you can sign the Book and still deviate from your destiny by force of will, that defeats the whole message/underlying theme of the series, it makes the entire faction war the series was predicated on meaningless. All those plots about faction loyalty are rendered moot. And just for good measure, they _destroyed_ the Book figuring it was more trouble than it was worth- which effectively destroyed whatever last shred of that faction duality had left to hang onto. The former faction simply could not exist anymore, Raven made everyone have to forge their own paths whether they wanted to or not, robbing them of the guarantee their futures once had. It would have been a much powerful message if Apple or someone else from the former faction with a good destiny destroyed the book themselves, effectively removing all guarantee they had at a good future, to save Raven from her sealed fate? That way, it'd be a message about personal sacrifice, recognizing the value of allowing your friends to be themselves over personal future security. They'd be well aware what destroying the Book would mean for themselves, but they did it anyway because their future wouldn't mean much without their friend. They couldn't live with the guilt of their future coming at the cost of someone else's. Sure, the Book would still be destroyed and the Faction duality the show was predicated on would still be disband, but at least it'd make for a more satisfying character arc and lore logic. But they didn't do that (well.... they sort of did, but only as an afterthought), they instead made fate something that can be overcome through determination without consequences, the extremely important matter of willful submission be damned. And as we learned later, destroying the book didn't exactly accomplish what she wanted/thought anyway.