Gale Force Winds on our Bali 5.4 Catamaran Maiden Voyage!

[@domt7925]

Don't listen to all the second guessing. I have actually been in those conditions for days at a time.... its not pleasant, but it seems as like my boat, you were never in any danger. Love seeing this boat in real world conditions. thanks for the upload

[@MrLet0]

What a treacherous "weather window" that was, I'm glad you made it through safe and sound. fair winds and following seas

[@Catamaranguru]

No kidding! The weather turns on a dime in the med!

[@FaithHopeLove77]

Thank you for sharing. Looking at. a Bali right now.

[@Catamaranguru]

You’re welcome! They are great boats for cruisers. Reach out any time for info

[@Catamaranguru]

Hi Olivier, I would not have gone upwind in these conditions, best was to run with it as we did. The only other smart option would have been to "hove to" and let the gale blow past. I do not think any sailing catamaran would have done well trying to go to weather in those conditions. In the end we were under bare poles with the windage of the back door and the flybridge enclosure acting as the sail and we were still doing double digit speeds down the waves. I had the engines running for the first hour or so in case I had to engage astern to slow the boat down in order to stop the bows pegging into the trough. After a while it became obvious that because of the angled underbody pushing the bows up and buoyancy of the foredeck combined with the forward speed this was not going to happen and we were able to relax a bit. Overall the boat behaved very well and tracked straight - the rudders are big and right at the stern so control was good.

[@AbacoAdventures]

Hey so cool to see you on KZbin we saw you this year in abaco at Tahiti beach

[@Catamaranguru]

Next time come and say hello!

[@Stoic-of-Rome]

Wow not a lifejacket/Jackline in sight in 4m swells. I did not leave the salon without be tether to the boat. A trip slip or stumble would have you in the drink and even in broad daylight you are likely toast!

[@Catamaranguru]

Yes as I said before, not ideal. It’s a boneheaded thing to do. Don’t do everything you see on KZbin! 😜

[@iedepot7309]

The boat looks great but that flybridge enclosure needs a complete redesign from battens in the lower edges and plastic sleeves to slide all those ties in.

[@Catamaranguru]

I couldn't agree more about a redesign. However, at the time we were very grateful for that inclosure. It does have sleeves for the ties but believe me, typing up the ties was the last thing on our minds while we were "braving" the elements. LOL

[@peteroleary162]

It certainly does show how unsafe the access is to the flybridge is in bad weather. Worth bearing this sort of thing in mind if looking for a blue water ocean cruising boat particularly if you are just a couple. As they were motoring not sailing they really could have run the boat from the navigation station provided they have access to the autopilot.

[@Catamaranguru]

Peter yes, it can be unsafe but we have made some changes to correct that, i.e. we added bars to the left of the walkway up to the flybridge. That way you have good handholds and a place to clip a harness to. We have done several safety upgrades and will be happy to share. As for navigating / steering from the flybridge - we prefer to steer from the flybridge because you have very good visibilty from there but you can certainly steer the boat from below with the auto pilot. Please bear in mind that we are very experienced sailors; 34+ years live aboard, we have sailed 1000's of miles and in some of the worst conditions and we know what ourselves and the boat are capable of. So we may seem a little cavalier about things, but we make safety a priority for the crew and the boat and do not put ourselves in danger if it can be avoided. Of course we can make mistakes and we don't know everything but we know when to pull back in most cases.

[@KANALOAWWP19]

Great video! Beautiful, strong and well designed catamaran. I wish I was with you during this experience on your new catamaran. I have encountered similar conditions at sea in my mono hull and your catamaran appears to be much more stable as far as pitch and roll aspect.

[@estellecockcroft8142]

Hi Steve! You are right, the motion is definitely a lot more bearable in a cat. We sailed the Mediterranean in our monohull also and while we prefer a cat, we nevertheless LOVED the experience even in our monohull! Thank you for watching!

[@markybolton]

Just curious. Shouldn't the bimini enclosure been better attached?

[@Catamaranguru]

Actually yes. LOL Honestly, the bad weather caught us a bit by surprise and we did not expect to have to use the enclosure just yet or we would have installed it properly. This just proves the saying; Proper planning and preparation prevents a piss poor performance. LOL

[@markybolton]

@@Catamaranguru Well glad you made it safe! So were you sailing single handed? My hats goes off to you how you kept your cool! What was your average knots per hour? Is she a fast sail? I am wanting to sell my house soon and look for a use Bali 4.8 to liveaboard permanently so I am watching every KZbin video on a Bali owner.

[@Catamaranguru]

@@markybolton hey! We were four people onboard at the time. We were doing about 10 knots average. Happy hunting! The 5.4 is a very good cruising cat. The Bali 4.8 is a nice boat but I really like the 4.6 also for a couple. It depends what you want to do with the boat.

[@KT-sw6er]

@@Catamaranguruhow many people do you think it takes to properly sail the 5.4 in a circumnavigation?

[@Catamaranguru]

@@KT-sw6er it obviously depends on your experience, sailing ability, level of fitness etc. Stephen and I sail the boat by ourselves usually but both of us are "seasoned" sailors and we work really well together as a team. We know what to do in emergencies because we have done it many times. It is always easy to sail a boat in good weather. The test comes in bad weather and it never happens at a good time and usually happens unexpectedly. I would say that if you are a halfway experienced sailor or at minimum have sailed some distances, knows your boat well enough and understand emergency drills, you will get along fine with three people during long passages to help with watches and emergency situations. This is a simplification obviously but practice makes perfect and I recommend that you do some sailing on the boat before you leave on long passages.

[@tmorton922]

No sail up?

[@Catamaranguru]

We had taken all the sails down eventually. Even under bare poles we were surfing down the waves with the wind behind us. We were concerned that we might bury the bows in the troughs. It was never an issue but we wanted to be prepared.

[@sulandelemere]

I can't help but think it would be dangerous going outside and up to steer the boat in that weather especially when you're tired.

[@estellecockcroft8142]

What I did was not smart. I would usually strap in with my harness into the life line that runs the length of the boat. We have also now fitted railings from the steps below going up to the fly bridge that is waist height, where one can clip into. It is a lot more secure now.

[@jamesaron1967]

@@estellecockcroft8142 I noticed the lack of railings there and thought that was cause for concern. Great to know you installed them.

[@Catamaranguru]

@@jamesaron1967 yes! It was a great addition and is so much more safe now. The boat is big and the coachroof is a ways away from the lifelines, so we needed more handles.

[@Asiatranceboy]

Glad you installed those, I was cringing watching you go up those steps without a visible lifeline. Only takes one freak wave… I love the Bali cats, but the flybridge helm position with only access from the outside would be a dealbreaker for me

[@sartwelljl]

What was your sail plan while in those winds?

[@olivierlauzeral4010]

How do you think the boat would have behaved upwind? which true wind angle would you have done? any sail up? or just the engine? I'm concerned about the large windage of the boat.

[@jamesaron1967]

Large windage probably helped move the boat along since they were travelling downwind. Not sure about motoring but don't think they had any sails up from the looks of it. They didn't need them with winds that high, and and certain it was not worth the risk. The boom is very high on the Bali because of the tall flybridge. One downside is high center of effort and in such conditions best not to raise any sail to be on the safe side.

[@sulandelemere]

I think if I made bali catamarams I would make the upstairs permanently enclosed with a large sunroof and big opening windows. If the stairs going up could be inside even better.

[@estellecockcroft8142]

Mmmm...not sure about that

[@sulandelemere]

@@estellecockcroft8142 why not would allow an outside inside space like the back of the boat?

[@estellecockcroft8142]

@@sulandelemere I guess anything is doable but it might be too much weight high up.

[@ParadigmUnkn0wn]

Lot of weight and not needed for 99% of the use these boats see. They're main market is charters, not diehard open water cruisers. As seen, it's more than capable of making it through rough seas on a ferry trip, but it's not designed to be comfortable in such conditions.

[@StartVisit]

no need to, open fly bridge is the best

[@tom080955]

Wow!...did you just actually left the safety of the salon, go out on a rolling deck in very foul weather, not wearing a life jacket or safety harness?

[@Catamaranguru]

I had my safety gear under my coat at the time but no, I did not use my safety harness. Not recommended behavior, so dont follow my lead.

[@conradsenior5843]

Be sure to wear your safety gear sitting at your desk.

[@The442nd]

Can she sail upwind?

[@estellecockcroft8142]

Yup, unfortunately we do that often since wherever we go, the wind seems to be blowing from that direction! LOL

[@The442nd]

@@estellecockcroft8142 My jaw nearly hit the floor when I saw no trampoline.

[@estellecockcroft8142]

These boats have that effect on people

[@The442nd]

@@estellecockcroft8142 The "performance Cat" people always harp on how big trampolines prevent the Cat from slamming up and down. How does your boat handle that? "Slamming up and down"

[@mojonyc007]

why aren't you guys tethered when walking on deck in that weather.?

[@patrickdupin]

Guys; please; when going down-wind, main sail is your best friend. Jib is second best friend. Engine is your enemy. Next time try sailing with ... sails... ;)

[@Catamaranguru]

Huh...we respect your opinion but at the time, that was the best call for the situation.

[@LukasHeintz]

Why is the main better than the jib going downwind?

[@ดุ่ยดุ่ยลุยเดี่ยว]

👍🙋😘🥰🌹😋🐣

[@tomtiernan8134]

What sails did you have up?

[@billdeuchler7030]

Looking at the rig from the video on the flybridge, it looks like they were under bare poles??? 12-15 knots under bare poles in up to 45 knots of wind??

[@tomtiernan8134]

@@billdeuchler7030 , does that mean the winds were pushing the boat (windage) 12-15 knots or did they have engines running? I’ve not done heavy weather sailing so I’m having a hard time visualizing this.

[@jamesaron1967]

@@tomtiernan8134 They stated they were "surfing", which to me means only weather forces, but I could be wrong. The speed is a combination of wind pushing the boat in addition to wave action. It's not wind alone. If they were also motoring then there were three forces acting on the hull to move it.

[@GENECARP]

Engines only?

[@Catamaranguru]

At that point we were on bare poles.LOL

[@noelraffle9698]

...the design of any fly bridge - for any form of real world sailing - is useless and and impractical - and poses a real danger for the sailers - never mind the antisocial cordoning of people into separate non communicative areas - terrible. ...no nets upfront - does not allow for the dissipation of energy created by the waves - all the force is being absorbed by the catamaran - which - will in time - given frequent use in voluminous seas - break the craft - of course. ...thank you for confirming my assumptions to never buying a catamaran with a fly bridge.

[@estellecockcroft8142]

Noel, that is certainly a perspective. Thankfully this was not our first rodeo. We have sailed extensively over the last 30 years on several different cats in various conditions, starting in 1992 on a Shuttleworth designed cat in the Red Sea when cats were considered dangerous and unseaworthy. Our last boat was a Lagoon 450 Sportop. We loved the boat and we originally chose the boat because of the semi raised helm rather than a flybridge. We have since sailed approximately 12,000 NM on the Bali 5.4 Flybridge, again in various conditions. It took some getting used to but now we really like it. Unsafe? What do you base that on? We never once felt unsafe but then, we try to be prudent about where and when we sail and we are experienced enough to know how to handle our boat. As for the front deck, pls watch our video on the construction of the foredeck. But I get it, conventional thinking is to go with nets but seriously, most cats are encroaching on the foredeck now even though they are all decrying the Bali solid foredeck i.e. the FP's and Leopards have tiny nets now and I think most cruising boats will end up there.

[@noelraffle9698]

@@estellecockcroft8142 ...why are the nets there - and - why should your nets not be overly fine - it is because - when the catamaran goes over a swell and breaks down over the other side - the energy is dissipated by the net - it is simple engineering - no net - no dissipation of the energy except into the craft itself - I bet the problems to arise in 10 years or more from catamaran such as the Bali - from a structural point of view - if used often in the ocean conditions that you were in - will be severely adverse - the nets also allow for a more comfortable passage in inclement weather naturally - this is not rocket science - it is just understanding Newton’s Laws. ...unsafe - 100% - did you see how one had to go outside and around and up to the fly bridge in that weather - then - the battle to unzip and then have to be helped up just to get in - it was comical and disconcerting at the same time - and, I personally would never allow my family to have to face those obstacles and real dangers just to bring me food at the helm for example - never mind being completely wet in the process by salty seawater and rain for no reason at all. ...you may defend your purchase as much as you wish - however - I remain of the view - that - I thank you for your video - confirming the fact that I would never purchase a fly bridge catamaran - and - or one with a solid front end - until such time - that engineering has solved the problem to dissipate the monstrous forces from the ocean on the front end of the craft in poor weather conditions.

[@Catamaranzuri]

@@noelraffle9698 Hi Noel, I felt I needed to address your post. We have owned four catamarans and sailed all of them offshore, three with nets and now this one without nets. In my experience nets have nothing to do with dissipating energy, they are there to reduce weight forwards. I am not sure what your structural qualifications are but the solid foredeck is much stronger than two bows joined by aluminium sections and nets - this is an engineering fact. Your claim that nets allow for a more comfortable passage in inclement weather is also incorrect. When you start taking green water through the nets the chest will be slamming into the wave and the bows will be in danger of submerging. In any other conditions the foredeck being nets or solid is irrelevant. For your knowledge and information the Prout Snowgoose is one of the most circumnavigated catamarans ever built and it has a solid foredeck and was introduced in 1957. Most of them are still floating and intact despite Newton. I understand biases since we have seen them from brokers early on who can only sell boats with nets and have never sailed one mile on a boat with a solid foredeck yet have strong opinions. I can tell you that if I had been in one of my other catamarans with nets I would probably have been trailing a warp or two to slow me down in the troughs since nets have no buoyancy , I did not need them on the Bali because the underbody is angled to push the bows up with the forward motion and there is a lot of bouyancy introduced by the foredeck as the hulls submerge. I found the boat to be seaworthy, there was no excessive slamming and the boat handled well. If you would like to go offline and discuss this in depth I am happy to do so. As far as the flybridge is concerned I cannot disagree with you, it was a pain in the weather we were experiencing but at 54 foot is is not really feasible to have a lower helm.We have learnt to live with it and to be quite honest we have not seen any really bad weather since the Med because we are pretty careful when passage planning. I fully respect your opinion regarding the safety of your family and you are entitled to it. While you will never own a boat with a solid foredeck, and again you are entitled to your opinion, my last word is don't knock it till you tried it for yourself. Over time I have learnt that technology and design evolve to the degree that there are no absolutes and more than one way to do things.

[@noelraffle9698]

@@Catamaranzuri ...hahahaha - you compare a tiny little Prout to that of a lumbering 54 foot Bali 😁😁. ...let’s see about the Prout. There is not much headroom in the salon. Once you are sat around the table, it´s fine - very cosy in fact. She has canoe sterns which work well dissipating wave energy from behind, but it is not so easy to get on and off the boat. Not the fastest catamaran on the water, but you should be able to average 6 knots With that covered foredeck and low bridgedeck you will get some slamming in rougher weather Most Snowgooses were fitted with a single engine. That makes the boat less manoeuvrable than a dual engine cat. Snowgoose was built with mini-keels so you can dry her out in between tides to clean the hulls and her narrow beam means she is able to motor down the French canals to the Med and back again. ...I humbly disagree with your interpretations and obfuscation of Newton’s Laws - time will be the deciding factor to your assumptions - for me - I thank you again for your video - confirming my aversion to fly bridges and solid fronts.

[@Daniel_sz]

@@noelraffle9698 There is cats with access to the fly from the cockpit, so you not need to expose the elements and putting in danger yourself, in this Bali since it was released i always found kinda weird accessing the flybridge only from the port/startboard leaving the cockpit