Catholics WORSHIP Mary? 🤦‍♂️

[@shanahendricks9831]

Wait until he gets to Exodus 25 his gonna rip that sock right off of his head 😂

[@adantrejo2617]

I had been waiting for this🙏🏽

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

ok, so outsider here again. Isn't the point to pray to Mary or the saints in general to try and get them to pray for you as well in a literal sense, as well as helping someone direct their prayers by having to think on who they would pray to for assistance in a more real world example. Like asking someone to pray for you? I'm pretty sure I've known people who have prayed to their dead relatives in circles of christianity outside of catholicism, that is what those prayers are supposed to be. It's not worship.

[@user-lb3jq9kr5h]

My Queen, My Mother, I offermyself entirely to thee. And to show my devotion to thee,I offer thee this day, my eyes,my ears, my mouth, my heart,my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own,keep me, guard me as thy property and possession. Amen. As far as I know, only God deserves my devotion, my whole body, and everything, not someone who also needs a Savior. And comparing your prayers to Mary like we pray for other people is nonsense, whilst we do pray for our friends, we don't pray like that for our friends. Question your Church for teaching you pagan practices.

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

@@user-lb3jq9kr5h So yeah, I'm not a christian at all let along a catholic. catholics are very steeped in long aged traditions going back 2000 years. Their prayers are more formulaic than most of the splinter groups of christianity since. I understand their prayers sound different than you would put them, but they do form the backbone behind the prayers I'm assuming you use. Yeah the language is archaic, especially since I'm certain the English versions are pretty much direct translations from Latin, which is a VERY different language than our Anglicized Germanic Norse/danish and French influenced polyglot of a tongue. Its the intent behind the prayer from what I understand, the traditional prayer is often used.... because it has been used..... for a thousand plus years. And if it worked two thousand, or one thousand years why not keep it up, even if the words might be off putting. I believe the Bible often claims things about being in a heart being more important than an action.... could be wrong.

[@user-lb3jq9kr5h]

@@CinnamonKnightEntertainment First of all, Catholics use repeated prayers, we don't even do that. We speak from our heart. When you talk to your father, do you repeat everything? That's nonsense. Your earthly father could understand the first time you said it, how much more God? God even knows what you need before you even ask so what's the point of repeating. You're saying that the Bible is wrong about the heart being more important than actions? That's what Jesus preached. You could do good actions for the reason that you want to please man, not God.

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

@@user-lb3jq9kr5h if you reread my comment I say that I thought the Bible states what is in the heart being more important than an action. The could be wrong part was admitting I could be incorrect about it being in the bible. Its been a couple decades since I've read it cover to cover. The point of the repetition, as well as the formulaic prayers, are to help someone focus on exactly what they are thinking and doing as they pray. And to be fair I often have to repeat what I say to my father, especially if he doesn't understand it. If the abrahamic god exsists I'm sure he knows what is in your heart and mind. The repetition is for the one praying, not God. Again, please if any of the catholics would back me up or let me know I'm wrong here, please do.

[@user-lb3jq9kr5h]

@@CinnamonKnightEntertainment Okay, my bad. Thanks for clarifying. But I will differentiate things here. I think it depends on your intention. If your purpose is to meditate, then repetition is effective. But if your purpose is to truly just talk with God, just open your heart to Him and say anything you want as that is more of a relationship than just a religion.

[@cabellero1120]

Just as Esther went before the King and interceded for her people, Mary prays and intercedes for Us before the Throne of Christ

[@Alexander07865]

Was Esther dead? Mary is dead. Jesus is alive. Repent and trust in Jesus

[@christianartists9185]

​@@Alexander07865 according to Scripture, please define death and life

[@Alexander07865]

@@christianartists9185 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18: “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” The Bible uses the term “fallen asleep” as someone who has died. 1 Thessalonians 4:14: “For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.” “After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died,” Lazarus’s soul didn’t go to Heaven then come back 4 days later. You can’t go to Heaven and leave if it is eternal. Just read God’s word and it will answer your questions. But do not open God’s word with preconceived notions walking in. Leave your baggage on the ground. You have to have a open mind and an open heart to receive the truth. Ask God for the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth. John 16:13

[@gigil8307]

As Catholics we ASK saints for intercession. Much like when a child goes and ask mom to talk to dad about something they want. Asking for help on your behalf is not worship or praying to saints.

[@pablomedrano2362]

Bro wait until he finds out Moses bowed to his father in law . A lot of these questions can be answered if they were sincere .

[@spoodermens]

Praying is not the same thing as worship. This is what happens when you don't look at the root origin and language of a word and just go based off of American emotionality attached to words

[@Alexander07865]

U r looking for an old dictionary definition to justify worshiping Mary. That is sad. God is very jealous. Saul said he was following God’s command but just got a few animals for sacrifices. What did God do? Say oh that’s ok u had good intentions. No, he gave him an evil spirit. 1 Samuel 15, 16. Stop fiddling with God’s word. When a command is clear it is clear, stop watering it down. Repent and trust in Jesus

[@spoodermens]

@@Alexander07865 I'm not going off of old English definitions I'm going off of the original Greek definitions the language the New Testament was written in.

[@Fir3Sp1r1t]

Hello Sir, you speak very well about Catholic faith. You should definitely do a fellowship Discord for everyone and anyone who is Catholic. So we can learn about the Catholic faith.

[@stephjobs5755]

Ok that's ignorance 😐 No , we do not worship her , she hangs with God, and can pray for you in her own right helping you in a crisis and cause she appears to people and does cool stuff. That's a simple explanation.

[@GodswordwithHanna]

She’s dead and she was a human. The only one who can intercede to God is JESUS. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). I used to be Catholic until The Holy Spirit opened my eyes. I had to repent and renounce idol worshiping, praying to saints and all that non biblical stuff like praying to dead ( necromancy). I pray that the Lord will show you the truth. Jesus said that until we will be born again we can’t see the kingdom of God.

[@maximopablo4295]

Protestants prayer and worship are not the same thing 😂

[@christianartists9185]

We don't worship Mary. We just honor her.

[@OzCrusader]

Mary is the Queen of Heaven So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king's mother, and she sat down on his right. 1 Kings 2:19 The title Gebirah (Gebira), meaning "Great Lady" or "Queen Mother" was a royal title and an office which was bestowed upon the mothers of the Kings of Israel, but limited to those Queens who were mothers of kings in the line of King David. When the monarchy divided into the two kingdoms of Judah in the south and Israel in the north, the institution of the Gebirah was not practiced in the Northern Kingdom of Israel. The Northern Kingdom was ruled by 9 ruling houses (dynasties) but Judah continued to be ruled by the House of David. The royal kings of Israel and the House of David had many wives and no single wife of the king had the influence that his mother enjoyed as the chief confidant of her son. It is not clear exactly what position of authority was accorded the mothers of the kings of Israel/ Judah, but scholars believe that Queen mothers of the ruling House of David were crowned, occupied a throne next to their sons, and that both state and religious functions required their presence and attention. There is evidence from other kingdoms in antiquity that the queen mother was the most highly placed person in the kingdom next to the king [i.e. in Egypt, in the Hittite Empire, etc.]. We do know from Scripture that these women exercised their influence from the time their sons ascended the throne and sometimes even into the reign of their grandsons as in the case of Maacah in 1 Kings 15 during the reign of her grandson Asa. It is significant that every mother of a Davidic king is listed along with her son in Sacred Scripture. The name of each Davidic Queen Mother is given in the introduction to each reign of the Davidic Kings of Judah [i.e. 1 Kings 14:21; 15:9-10; 22:42; 2 Kings 12:2; 14:2; 15:2; 15:33; 18:2; 21:2; 21:19; 22:1; 23:31; 23:36; 24:8; 24:18 You can read the entire article here: www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Mary%20The%20Queen%20Mother%20of%20the%20New%20Davidic%20Kingdom.htm

[@stewart8127]

This is the line all catholic haters say.

[@JamesWilliams-sn8uh]

It saddens me. I never see Catholics or Orthodox Christian’s shaming other Christian denominations. I pray one day we all live in peace.

[@42imagefairly34]

keep doing what you doing man

[@joshuasalcedo3630]

So I grew up catholic. I in fact was an alter boy for many years . I hate to admit that the ignorance of many catholic with little to no knowledge of the Bible is how you get what this guy is saying, "worshipping Mary " . Yes to be honest especially in the Latin world alot of Latinos worship Mary unknowingly, even equate her to Jesus, some make her higher than Jesus because we're raised to believe our mothers have higher authority than the children. With that being said it is a HUGE mistake on our part . It's not until recent years and the beginning of my spiritual walk with Christ have I understood many of what is now truth of the gospels and knowledge I wish I would have known as a child.

[@Monic12340]

Exodus 25 God commands Moses to build the Tabernacle. It was a command from God himself. Where did God command christians to pray to Mary or the saints,make statues of them?? Kindly send me the Bible verse where it says so. I will really appreciate that.

[@ATLR0430]

Poor formation 😢

[@dvalosaubisemilosa]

what is this anti Theotokos sentiment?!

[@Catmonks7]

😂💯

[@user-lb3jq9kr5h]

My Queen, My Mother, I offer myself entirely to thee. And to show my devotion to thee,I offer thee this day, my eyes,my ears, my mouth, my heart,my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own,keep me, guard me as thy property and possession. Amen. God would be jealous. No doubt.

[@OzCrusader]

If you knew our heavenly queen at all, you would know that her whole purpose is to make known the Gospel to the world, ie Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour. This prayer to Mary pledges ourselves to her completing her mission.

[@user-lb3jq9kr5h]

@@OzCrusader Nonsense. First of all, God has always been labeled as King. To have some mere human and associate her as "Queen of heaven" is literally saying that she is equal to God. That's blasphemy. And Mary herself did not claim as queen. You blasphemous Catholics did. Second, her main purpose is to BIRTH Jesus, and that's already done, her role WAS DONE. Making Jesus known to the world is a command by Jesus to everyone who believes in Him. And hell nah, I wouldn't pledge myself to a human who also needs a Savior. I would pledge myself to God instead. He ALONE deserves my whole being.

[@agentegratuito1824]

​@@user-lb3jq9kr5hwords of wisdom, PREACH.

[@christianartists9185]

​@@user-lb3jq9kr5h Many use 1Tim 2:5 to say "Jesus alone is worthy to receive my prayers" That's true, but who alone is able to GIVE Him all the prayers He can receive?. A billion more Marys interceding for us still wouldn't suffice to exhaust the Inexhaustible Divine Mercy. If we can't see that, then we've made Christ too small in our eyes. He doesn't rival with His mother for His bride's love (the church). And no good Son would. No bride good Can love a Son and hate the mother or not receive the mother into the home like her own mother . The story of Ruth and Naomi depicts this. That He loves His mother doesn't mean He loves us less. In Christ's kingdom, more love given to one doesn't mean less for others. I wonder sometimes if it actually is even a fear that Catholics are replacing Christ Mary . I think it's rather pride/hatred "who's Mary that I should..." But who is first, must be last. May perfect love drive away fear n suspicion

[@thebigchamoy9101]

Idk if this dude is catholic but imma assume he is from what he said. And no it doesn’t say to make statues in exodus 25. Maybe everyone should actually go read it. Cause. Again. Catholicism is not the true way. It is idolizing. And you do not idolize. Only give faith. Trust. And glory to god.

[@christianartists9185]

What does it say please? Here's what I found? Exodus 25:18 [18]and you will model two great winged creatures of beaten gold, you will make them at the two ends of the mercy-seat.

[@thebigchamoy9101]

@@christianartists9185it’s not a statue.

[@christianartists9185]

@@thebigchamoy9101 What is it please

[@thebigchamoy9101]

@@christianartists9185 a covenant box. Where the law was placed.

[@christianartists9185]

@@thebigchamoy9101 The winged creatures were placed ON THE ARK Exodus 25:22 [22]There I shall come to meet you; from above the mercy-seat, from between the two winged creatures which are on the ark of the Testimony, I shall give you all my orders for the Israelites. However, even the Ark of the covenant was man made. Acacia wood, gold, a staff, these things are not God and so placing them in the Holy of Holies, a place where the Jews worshipped, that should also be considered as the Lord leading the Jews to idolatry. God doesn't need a box(idole), don't you think?

[@ninasvocalcoach8398]

Blessed Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners. The dead do not speak. Who is my mother or brother but those who do the will of my Father. See references in the KJV, the unedited version. For the last two, the prayer to Mary isn't in there.

[@OzCrusader]

If the “dead” cannot speak, tell me then how Moses and Elijah were alive and able to speak with Jesus during His Transfiguration? Matthew 17:1 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain where they could be alone. 2 There in their presence he was transfigured: his face shone like the sun and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared to them; they were talking with him.

[@ninasvocalcoach8398]

@@OzCrusader tell the vision to no man.

[@ninasvocalcoach8398]

Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. It was a vision. Peter tried talking to Jesus during it but it was a vision of heaven.

[@OzCrusader]

@@ninasvocalcoach8398 So the Transfiguration of Jesus was a lie and Moses and Elijah were not alive and speaking with Jesus?

[@OzCrusader]

@@ninasvocalcoach8398 Mary is the Queen of Heaven So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king's mother, and she sat down on his right. 1 Kings 2:19 The title Gebirah (Gebira), meaning "Great Lady" or "Queen Mother" was a royal title and an office which was bestowed upon the mothers of the Kings of Israel, but limited to those Queens who were mothers of kings in the line of King David. When the monarchy divided into the two kingdoms of Judah in the south and Israel in the north, the institution of the Gebirah was not practiced in the Northern Kingdom of Israel. The Northern Kingdom was ruled by 9 ruling houses (dynasties) but Judah continued to be ruled by the House of David. The royal kings of Israel and the House of David had many wives and no single wife of the king had the influence that his mother enjoyed as the chief confidant of her son. It is not clear exactly what position of authority was accorded the mothers of the kings of Israel/ Judah, but scholars believe that Queen mothers of the ruling House of David were crowned, occupied a throne next to their sons, and that both state and religious functions required their presence and attention. There is evidence from other kingdoms in antiquity that the queen mother was the most highly placed person in the kingdom next to the king [i.e. in Egypt, in the Hittite Empire, etc.]. We do know from Scripture that these women exercised their influence from the time their sons ascended the throne and sometimes even into the reign of their grandsons as in the case of Maacah in 1 Kings 15 during the reign of her grandson Asa. It is significant that every mother of a Davidic king is listed along with her son in Sacred Scripture. The name of each Davidic Queen Mother is given in the introduction to each reign of the Davidic Kings of Judah [i.e. 1 Kings 14:21; 15:9-10; 22:42; 2 Kings 12:2; 14:2; 15:2; 15:33; 18:2; 21:2; 21:19; 22:1; 23:31; 23:36; 24:8; 24:18 You can read the entire article here: www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Mary%20The%20Queen%20Mother%20of%20the%20New%20Davidic%20Kingdom.htm

[@roadtoparadise.632]

Bro worships jesus and the Holy spirit u can't talk

[@Alexander07865]

? Worship the Lord God and serve him only. Matthew 4:10. Worship God not humans. Repent and trust in Jesus

[@Alexander07865]

He was Worshiping Mary because u guys justify it. Catholicism preaches it. And u water it down. That’s y.

[@chrisminblkdiamond]

Catholics seems to think “if I can’t approach Christ, I will approach his mum who will put in a good word for me to Christ”. And so people began to pray to Mary who would pray to Christ who would intercede with the Father. I would like the catholic church to answer Martin Luther’s 95..

[@VoiceOfReason_]

That’s a misrepresentation of Catholics. And the Catholic Church DID respond to Luther’s 95 theses immediately after he nailed them to the Cathedral door…you should learn more history and learn Catholic theology

[@Alexander07865]

If you stab someone and say I’m not stabbing them u r not stabbing them? But if u say u r then u r? Whether u say u worship Mary or not u in practice r worshiping her. Saying something does not change reality. Whether u believe u r worshiping Mary or not or u say u r or not. In practice u r. God is a jealous God and to water down his command is very dangerous. Saul said I am following God’s command but I just took a few animals to sacrifice to God. God did not say to Saul, oh it’s ok, u had good intentions. No, God gave him an evil spirit. 1 Samuel 15,16. Stop fiddling with God’s command. Stop watering down God’s command. God is clear on his command. Repent and trust in Jesus

[@christianartists9185]

Please what is worship, how are we worshipping her?

[@Alexander07865]

@@christianartists9185 If you go on your knees and communicate spiritually to other spirits and not God, that is worship and very dangerous. 1 Timothy 2:5 says “For there is one God and one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus.” When you make graven images and bow down to them, that’s worship and forbidden by scripture. CCC 2679: “Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes,39 for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope.” Praying TO Mary is forbidden, but the Catechism endorses it. Exodus 20:4-5. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” 5 “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” We are to worship God alone. Jesus said, “You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’” Matthew 4:10. When you use titles like “Queen of Heaven” and mediatrix and advocate, it’s worship. Jeremiah 7:18 and Jeremiah 44 says the “Queen of Heaven” is a pagan goddess names Ishtar. Mary is a humble woman not a pagan goddess but Catholicism has made her a goddess. Thus calling her the Queen of Heaven. CCC 966: “Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.” Saying Mary is sinless is also unbiblical. Mary in the Bible is a humble Jewish woman who gave birth to Jesus Christ which is a high honor. But the Catholic Mary is exalted like crazy. Catholics think Mary is sinless, even though Romans 3:23 says all have sinned, not most, not some, ALL. Mary even needed a savior. Luke 1:46-47. The Catechism teaches in CCC 966, that Mary was a virgin for her whole life. In Matthew 1:24-25, it says Joesph did not consummate the marriage UNTIL she gave birth to Jesus. Some translations say until she brought forth her firstborn. Jesus had brothers and sisters. Matthew 13:55-57, Mark 6:3-4. In Luke 2:21-24, Mary after Jesus was circumcised the 8th day had to offer a sacrifice of a pair of two turtle doves or two young pigeons because she bore a boy child. In Leviticus 12:1-3,8, it says the child is to be circumcised the 8th day, and you are to offer a sin offering with two young pigeons. It fits perfectly. 1 John 1:8 says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” Mary never claimed to be sinless, so why do Catholics say that she was? Only God can save our souls from death. Isaiah 43:11: “I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.” John 14:6: “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Acts 4:12: “And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” CCC 969: This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." John 14:26 says the Holy Spirit is the advocate and helper. Stop worshipping creation and worship the creator. Romans 1:25: "They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen."

[@christianartists9185]

@@Alexander07865 The idea of Mary having other children is not scriptural. Why would a woman about to marry ask the angel such a question? Luke 1:34 'But how can this come about, since I have no knowledge of man?' Mary certainly knew how women get pregnant since there's no evidence of her being retarded etc Unless she had taken a vow to a consecrated life which as scripture shows, wasn't uncommon to the Jews. Both in the OT n NT. Numbers 30:7-9,17 [7]"If, being bound by vows or by a pledge voiced without due reflection, she then marries, [8]and if her husband hears of it but says nothing on the day he learns of it, her vows will be binding and the pledges she has taken will be binding. [9]But if on the day he learns of it he expresses his disapproval to her, this will annul the vow that she has made or the pledge that binds her, voiced without due reflection. Yahweh will not hold her to it. [17]Such were the laws which Yahweh prescribed to Moses, concerning the relationship between a man and his wife, and between a father and his daughter while still young and living in her father's home.. 1 Corinthians 7:36-38 [36]If someone with strong passions thinks that he is behaving badly towards his fiance'e and that things should take their due course, he should follow his desires. There is no sin in it; they should marry. [37]But if he stands firm in his resolution, without any compulsion but with full control of his own will, and decides to let her remain as his fiance'e, then he is acting well. [38]In other words, he who marries his fiance'e is doing well, and he who does not, better still. As concerns her other children, please I'll ask you to read their names n try to reference their fathers. Also try to look at how many Marys are mentioned in the Gospel. Look at how the "words siblings, sisters, brothers and relations" have been used in scripture. This issue has been addressed over and over. U can Google Catholic answers on it n get the Catholic view bf making your stands. I'll like you to consider, because it's mentioned that Until Christ was born, Joseph never had relations with Mary, it doesn't mean he had afterwards. If we say eg "until a said day, God had never been unfaithful to them" this doesn't mean He's been unfaithful afterwards. Again, the Lord Jesus might not have handed her to John or atleast even if He still would have, John wouldn't have had to bring her into his home. As concerns her sinfulness, Christ the savior isn't only a savior for committed sins but to even prevent and protect us from sin. No matter how sinful we might be, He's already working in wiping it ALL!!. Remember that sin was never in God's plan from origin and as hard it it is, sin isn't beyond God to wipe off. Infact we believe Mary is the perfect example of God's work, a work similar to what He's already working in us all.. She's queen of heaven but aren't we all going to be kings n queens too? Why is this strange, don't you know that a crown awaits us all . Kings n queens wear crowns. Infact like my pentecostal friends often point out we're all going to be gods. Yes Christ came down as man. Lived amongst men and at the end, sent men out. Men(humans) have rescued others. In fact I can say I owe my life, my hands, legs etc but above all my salvation to my Mother. You see I can refer even to you with the references given to Mary. That doesn't mean I'm making you my God. I'm just doing what scripture says when it says even slaves should not try to disobey or that the first amongst men must be the least or that consider others as more important than self. Because an event isn't Biblical doesn't mean it's not Historical. How the apostles died eg isn't in the Bible but these are historical and traceable events. Electric vehicles aren't mentioned in Scripture but they exist. I think Christ knew this and that's why at the end of God time on earth, He sends people out not books. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 [15]...keep the traditions that we taught you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. I can say more but the comments section of KZbin is what we've got. I don't write all these to however convert you but to have you accuse us of what we actually do not what you think we do. IV tried to show you scripture n sacred tradition where we draw from.

[@Alexander07865]

@@christianartists9185 she was 15 but she was gonna get married and have kids eventually. It’s not she didn’t know about sex, probably less then considering the day and age plus she was 15. If she was going to be a sinless virgin her whole life, y did God choose a 15 year old to the job? God could have done it when she was 25, it would make no difference. And the verses I gave u prove she was not a sinless perpetual virgin. If u want more here… Matthew 13:57, Jesus said “And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.” That’s his own household. Matthew 1:25 is clear. “And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.” Mark 6:3-4. “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.” 4 “But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.” Luke 1:36. “And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.” Cousin=cousin Brother=brother Sister=sister. Stop forcing interpretations to fit your narrative. John 2:16-17, “And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.” 17 “And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.” Psalm 69:8-9. “I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.” 9 “For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.” Mary had other children it is more than clear. That’s interesting wording for someone that is 15 thousands of years ago not having the same sex education as 2023, but that’s your viewpoint I guess. U r just using your own interpretations to make stuff up. Mary had other children. Simple. Mary even needed a savior. Luke 1:46-47. The Catechism teaches in CCC 966, that Mary was a virgin for her whole life. In Matthew 1:24-25, it says Joesph did not consummate the marriage UNTIL she gave birth to Jesus. Some translations say until she brought forth her firstborn. Jesus had brothers and sisters. Matthew 13:55-57, Mark 6:3-4. In Luke 2:21-24, Mary after Jesus was circumcised the 8th day had to offer a sacrifice of a pair of two turtle doves or two young pigeons because she bore a boy child. In Leviticus 12:1-3,8, it says the child is to be circumcised the 8th day, and you are to offer a sin offering with two young pigeons. It fits perfectly. Jesus is the perfect example, not Mary. Stop worshiping Mary. She never wanted this. Mary can’t save u. Mary is dead and can’t do anything for u or your salvation. Only Jesus can. John 14:6: “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” No, Mary is not the “Queen of Heaven” the Queen of Heaven in the Bible is a pagan goddess called Ishtar. Mary is not a pagan goddess. Mary is a humble woman not an exalted one. The Catholic Church says Mary is the “Queen of Heaven” not that one day after we go to Heaven we will get crowed by Jesus. That’s a big difference. I’m not a Pentecostal or even a Protestant so I do not know if u r saying that as a joke of an argument but in any case those friends of yours r wrong. I think u mean Mormons. Isaiah 43:10: “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” There is only one God. Not 3. Not one million. “Salvation to your mother”? There is only ONE name by which man can be saved, and that is the name of Jesus Christ. The devil hates Jesus, the devil doesn’t care about Mary because Mary does not have power given to her. All power is given to Jesus in Heaven above and on the earth below. Matthew 28:18. Mary did not die for my sins. Mary did not rise on the third day. Mary did not atone for my sins. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses me from all sin. 1 John 1:7. Not the blood of Mary. If it’s not in the written and recorded in the Bible, if the word of God does not mention it, then we aren’t to assume it is true. We have to test everything by scripture. 1 Thessalonians 5:21. The scriptures are the standard of truth. If we go by traditions of men, then I can come up with anything down the line like Pope Francis has and say Homosexuality is to be blessed. Or I can refer back to what God said because his word doesn’t change. Matthew 24:35: “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8. 2 Timothy 3:16: “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” There is no “end of God time” And those “people” never said Mary was sinless, a perpetual virgin, in Heaven, “Queen of Heaven, the “advocate”, the “Mediatrix”, etc These are traditions of men. Created centuries and thousands of years after the scriptures were complete. Mark 7:8: “You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.” Those traditions Paul talked about were the same as what the scriptures said, not contrary. The Catholic Church has traditions that are contrary to the scriptures, that’s what Jesus warned about. Tradition being equal with scripture is something the Catholic Church adopted and agreed upon in 1545 AD. So if when your Catholic Church started was before 1545 AD, then for the time all the way up to 1545 AD they went by scripture alone. See how things change and get adopted and taken out as the years go by? Are you going to trust new doctrines being adopted or the word of God that never changes? Cause at the end, as we are in the end times, there will be doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

[@christianartists9185]

@@Alexander07865 @Alexander07865 Please, consider the stands you've freely chosen to take. You say she probably knew less about sex considering the time and age n that she was 15. You choose to make this claims, discarding the fact that scripture records that she asked the angel " How can this be since I have no relations with man" or as other translations say "since I know not man" You're choosing to say she didn't know enough. Why didn't you say she probably didn't even know also what conceiving a child in the womb meant considering the age an lack of sex education. But I guess you must choose what you must freely to believe and preach. Again see your choice. You point out to sister, Mother, cousin etc. You choose to ignore that the OT was written mainly in Hebrew or Aramaic and the NT in Greek mainly. English was just later on translation. Scholars have shown again and again how it wasn't uncommon for statements like "mother's brother's child" to be narrowed into kin or sibling or brethren etc. In fact the Lord Jesus said : Matthew 23:8 [8]'You, however, must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all BROTHERS!!!. on the cross He said son here's your MOTHER. That doesn't mean Mary is John's biological mother. Anyway, since probably knowing the verses that reference the parents of the said blood siblings of Jesus , you still choose that we go into the ever repeated argument, let copy n paste once again some biblical references to the so call brothers n sisters of Christ. the Catholic Church in section 500 points out that if you go fast forward 14 chapters in Matthew’s Gospel, for Matthew 13:55 to Matthew 27:56, and you find those brothers of the Lord, at least two of them pop up again because notice it’s James, Joses or Joseph, James, Joses, Simon, and Judas are the four brothers of the Lord and his sisters. Well, in Matthew 27:56, we see the same James and Joseph mentioned again together, except this time their mama is mentioned. This becomes really important because now we have positive evidence here for the fact that these are not uterine brothers. Why? Because their mother is mentioned as Mary, or as Matthew’s Gospel calls her, the other Mary. When you have a cousin or a relative who’s the mother of God, you get known as the other Mary. As the catechism says, she is significantly called the other Mary. Most likely, she is Mary of Cleopas, who we see in a parallel text in John 19:25 is named as the wife of Cleopas and the sister of Mary, Mary of Cleopas. So here we have this incredible sort of coincidence? No. We have evidence here that the brothers of the Lord, again, James and Joses being mentioned here, have a mama that’s not Mary of Jesus. So guess what?. They are relatives, which really makes sense, again, understanding the Jewish context and such. Galatians 1:19 St Paul says He goes to meet with St Peter and meets no one else as the 12 avoid him except James the brother!!! of Jesus. Well, there’s only two James’s, and the first one is the son of Zebedee, who we know died early on in Acts 12:1-2. He was beheaded by Herod. So he’s not talking about that, James. He was beheaded very early, long before Paul’s conversion. But here, that James kind of gets rooted out. well, if that was that James, well, his father is Zebedee, not Joseph. here’s only one left. It’s James the less. But what’s interesting is you go to Luke 6:15-16 and his daddy is named as Alpheus. Etc. U can get the rest here ie if you don't even already know this yourself. Etcwww.catholic.com/audio/caf/did-mary-have-other-children So there's are good traditions after all?. Paul's traditions you say. Atleast that sounds like progress n not circles You say if a doctrine comes after the 15 hundreds AD, it's wrong bc it's later?. Why didn't you say the same for circumcision? Afterall Christ never taught against circumcision not being necessary. He Himself was circumcised properly and so we can assume too that only later did the early fathers, influenced by St Paul, or Maybe out of St Peter's fearing nature, create a law permitting this to not be mandatory. Even for eating of reptiles. Christ never ate these. Also If today the church should write against nuclear weapons or contraceptives, trans... etc, you think it would be wrong because these things weren't mentioned in Scripture? Why then did Christ not send out books but people. Why did He leave behind a church instead of a book? Why did the Bible never mention that Christ said He'll send a Book. Why did He come down as man , live and die among men, choose n send men. rather than a book. Yes I too will like to think of the appellations to Mary as too much or that no one can save me. But Christianity doesn't depend on my likes n dislikes. It wasn't designed to please me but save me. Man can save fellow man from everything, accidents etc and even from hell . My mom brought me to Christianity. She saved me. Indeed it's only through the grace of God that she could do this but that's how God destined it. It doesn't matter whether I'm comfortable with it or not. That's why if my opinion was asked, He'll not give humans the authority "whosoever sins you forgive on earth are in heaven forgiven. Like John the Baptist who had his own opinion on who should baptize who or like peter in who should wash who's feet, leftt to me, He should have kept this right to Himself alone. But it's not about pleasing me but saving me. He's ways aren't mine. Like IV said we're she honored a billion times more, Christ wouldn't bother because that won't steal an ounce of His grandeur. He wasn't competing with Him. The old age mediator argument. Everytime you pray for someone, your mediating/ interceding. If 1Tim 2:5 means what non Catholics claim, then no one should pray/plead for another. But I guess you know this. You have made your choice and that's your right so you're in order. For many, it's not even that they suspect that the church is trying to rival Mary with her Son since it's clear that's not her, her Son's or the Church's intention. Rather it's just "who's Mary that I/a whole I should ask her help". Well we believe she's the woman with many children in Rev 12: 17.

[@uncle_Samssubjects]

Unpair yourself from @reason and theology, you could do so much more in the culture war if you get some distance from him and his weak and divisive takes..

[@OzCrusader]

Huh?

[@uncle_Samssubjects]

@@OzCrusader our biggest concern in the US should be the current state of our country, and the culture, that paved the way for it.. attacking our allies is a recipe for failure, and disaster, and the main reason why we are losing.. Who cares what other Catholics think about the Pope, when we have porn in our school, so many more important issues to solve.. In Canada the Muslims, and Christians, are finally teaming up to fight these very issues, because they might disagree about religion, and all theology, but they agree on a lot of the basics.. We need to do the same..

[@OzCrusader]

@@uncle_Samssubjects I live in Australia and I too see my nation tottering on the edge of the abyss, following the left-wing errors of the USA and Canada and most of Europe. However, I do believe that Michael Lofton and Alex on the Reason&Theology channel offer sanity in an insane world. Alex and Michael stand on the Rock of Faith in the storm. Listening to them equip us to fight errors in and outside the Catholic Church.

[@uncle_Samssubjects]

@@OzCrusader I live in a major city, in the northeast of the Continental US, and the neighborhood I grew up in, looks like a Hollywood set, with human beings that look like zombies, while the police just stand their, looking for working people to arrest.. here the war already started, and come jan20th 2025 something major has to happen..So we need unity, not division, to handle these major issues..

[@Alexander07865]

Catholicism preaches worship of Mary that’s y he did it to begin with. So r u Moses? R u an Ancient Israelite? If God tells Moses to do something he’s not telling u nor is God making an exemption to the rule. The exception does not negate the rule. U were smiling because the convicting inside of u. Listen to the Holy Spirt not what the pope says. The Holy Spirit will never contradict the word. Exodus 20:4-5 is clear. I read Exodus 20 and Exodus 25 and on but I never said o ok I guess it id ok to pray to Mary because God told Moses to build a the ark of the covenant. Read God’s word, not man’s word. Repent and trust in Jesus

[@christianartists9185]

Say i am an Atheist, how would you explain to me a God who says in Ex 20 "Make no images" And then in Ex 25 " Make two". Don't you think the right answer would have been for the Israelites to refuse God's word in Ex 25? Don't you think God was just testing them to see if they'll remember what He said in Ex 20' Make no images '. Maybe they were expected not to make the cherubim so that God would say "well done, you remember My words" What about the covenant box, I mean God is not a box and the world cannot contain Him. Ur either accusing even the Israelites of failing a hypothetical test and idolizing along with Catholics today or you clearly see and yet choose to deny that God, the Israelites then and the Catholic today understood/understand something which you freely choose to deny Wouldn't it be idolatry when the box was placed in the temple, a place of worship?

[@Alexander07865]

@@christianartists9185 when God commands you to make something for his purpose and glory, you do it. You are not Moses. Building the ark of the covenant was not to worship it or bow down to it, it was to contain the 10 commandments. That does not contradict Exodus 20:4-5. Stop trying to justify breaking the commands of God

[@Alexander07865]

@@christianartists9185 the Israelites worshiped the golden calf while Moses was on the mountain speaking with God, did Moses come back down and say it is ok because u had good intentions? No, he got so mad he broke the two stone tablets. Exodus 32

[@christianartists9185]

@@Alexander07865 Please, I think you're making unscriptural claims. The Ark of the covenant was placed in the Holy of Holies, in the temple, a place of worship. Not everyone was even allowed in. In fact God said He'll Meet with the people there and His presence will rest on it. Ex 25:22 n Ex 30:6. Even, the Jews prayed facing the Holy of Holies . (Psm 28:2).

[@Alexander07865]

@@christianartists9185 they prayed to God not humans. “Worship the Lord God and serve him only.” Matthew 4:10. I gave u plenty of verses disproving Catholic teaching. Take it as u please. I’ll leave you with the Gospel and be on my way. Catholicism preaches a false Gospel. And Paul says anyone who preaches a false Gospel, let that person be accursed. Galatians 1:6-9. The Council of Trent Canon 32 States "If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life, ...and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema." We do not earn grace, we do not earn salvation, we do not merit salvation or grace, we do not deserve grace thus it being grace, and we do not deserve salvation or eternal life. It is a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast." We can not boast because we do not earn nor deserve eternal life. Catholics can never know if they will go to Heaven because they think they have to do good works to go to Heaven and they think they merit grace and eternal life. But it is a gift of God as Ephesians 2:8-9. We can know we have eternal life. 1 John 5:13. This is the Gospel: The Gospel means the Good news. But before I give the good news I have to tell you the bad news so you appreciate the good news. The bad news is all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23. We know we all sinned and we know what sin is. And the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. It’s like a judge paying a criminal that killed people, death for their crime. God is doing the same thing. We deserve death because of our sins. If you ever lied, stolen, hated, committed blasphemy (used God’s name in vain), killed, lusted, had pride in your heart or any other sin in your life you sinned against God and deserve death. But the good news is you can be forgiven by the grace of God. Most people know Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins but they do not know this, and if you can get a grip of this it will change your life forever. The 10 Commandments are called the moral law, you and I broke the law, but Jesus paid the fine. That is why Jesus said “it is finished” right before he died, he was saying paid in full. In court, if someone pays your fine you can leave and it is legal. God can legally take the death sentence off of you all because of what Jesus did on the cross. Then he rose on the third day according to the scriptures ( 1 Corinthians 15:4) and defeated death itself, and if you simply repent and put your trust in Jesus, you have God’s promise and he can not lie, that he will grant you everlasting life. Ask God to change your heart and your desires to love what is right not what is wrong. That’s what it means to be born again. Jesus said unless you are born again you will not see the kingdom of God. John 3:3. When you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior and pass from death to life all because of God’s mercy, it’s a personal miracle that you can be radically changed from loving sin to loving God. God is gracious and he will provide. 2 Chronicles 30:9. Philippians 4:19. Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find. Matthew 7:7. Jesus is calling all to repent. Acts 17:30. Jesus said repent or likewise perish. But God is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9. Jesus wants to have a relationship with you. It’s not about religion. All these other gods are fake and Satan distracting you from Jesus. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me.” John 14:6. “God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him, shall not perish but have everlasting life.” John 3:16. God bless. Repent and put your truth and faith in Jesus Christ. That is the Gospel. Catholics do not believe in being Spiritually born again and God changing your desires renewing your heart to love what is right vs what is wrong. But Jesus said unless a man is born again, he will not see the kingdom of God. John 3:3. So ask God to change you and to convert you to love what is right not wrong. Ask God for the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will convict you of your sins and guide you to all truth. John 16:8, John 16:13. God bless. Repent and trust in Jesus