Eastern Orthodox And The Immaculate Conception

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#easternorthodox #immaculateconception #mary #originalsin #orthodox

[@killianmiller6107]

Because sin is a privation, it is actually more fitting to say Mary being preserved from sin is MORE human than us

[@Emie-f3g]

Correct! She is the most natural whereas all sinners are UNNATURAL.

[@nickybats5736]

As a Orthodox I love my Catholic brothers and sisters

[@kennynoNope]

Do you worship the god of Islam?

[@Ronaldstamosti]

@@kennynoNopesatin? No

[@workinpromo]

We love you too brother, let's fight for Christ together ❤️ Pray often for reunion!

[@kennynoNope]

@@RonaldstamostiVatican 2 says Islam honors the one true god

[@input-latency2684]

@@kennynoNope islam *claims* to follow the faith of Abraham, following the one true God - they don’t, in so many ways, but we give credit where credit is due, praising those who are seeking truth.

[@astoryafet1921]

Hail Mary full of grace❤

[@HolyRomanApostolic]

Babe wake up, new Voice of Reason just dropped

[@jdub3999]

Evangelicals think The Blessed Virgin Mary distracts from Jesus. The fulfillment of prophecy and Blessed Mary always leads us to Jesus and His Perfect Love. Salvation history never distracts, only reenforces Our Savior, Jesus Christ. Asking Blessed Virgin Mary to pray for us, is biblical. She is Our Mother, who is Alive in Heaven!

[@duncanwashburn]

Mary, as precious an example for us as she was/is, did not lead me to Jesus. In fact, Jesus told us how to pray. He said to pray to the Father in His Name. He had lots of opportunities to tell us that we should include Mary, but He did not. Note no where in the rest of the NT is she mentioned in any way as a go between between us and God. In fact, we are told Jesus is the 'Go-between'.

[@39knights]

@@duncanwashburn We are told in the NT that there are lots of 'go-betweens'. Jesus is only singled out as the only mediator (among all the mediators) that could mediate our salvation. Prayers for healing, grace, material needs, etc. are other subjects besides our direct salvation that other people or saints can mediate for us. Look at the story of Job and what God says of his friends near the end of the story. As for Mary, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the NT says that from henceforth ALL generations shall call me blessed. So when was the last time you actually obeyed the bible, took a moment, and called Mary blessed. Put it all together. If others can pray for us (which is mediation), and Mary is the holiest of saints; then why can't we ask her to pray for us?

[@duncanwashburn]

@@39knights could you point to a Scripture that says there is any other mediator like Jesus? 1 Timothy 2:5 "For [there is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, [the] Man Christ Jesus," Sighting people as 'mediators' this side of the grave is very different than asking people in Heaven to pray. Besides Jesus gave us at least two instructions as to how to pray ... one the 'Lord's Prayer' and He told us to pray to God in His Name. If you can point me to a verse where Jesus (or Peter, John or Paul) encouraged us to ask people in Heaven to pray for us, I'd be glad to look at it. FYI, as a Bible teacher I taught more than once about Mary over the many years and was blessed to do so. I think she's one of the best illustration of a godly person, when one takes into consideration all she went through in life, from the confusion of the miraculous Birth of Jesus all the way to watching Him die on that Cross. Two verses speak volumes to me ... Luke 2:19,51. They say she, "kept these things in her heart" Oh that we would take her example of meditating on the Truth and hiding it in our hearts so we won't sin against God (Ps 119:9,11). Please show me in the Scriptures where It says that Mary was the holiest of all. I know of no verse and I don't think God needed her to be such. Look at the majority of others throughout the lineage of Jesus down to Mary. There were many sinners.

[@jaykay4541]

Jesus says “None are good except one, God alone” No one else is good let alone sinless. That’s completely against what Jesus taught and the Bible as a whole teaches. Jesus’s conception and birth and written in scriptures, we celebrate them every year. Why isn’t Mary’s conception or her being sinless ever mentioned in the Bible if it is important?

[@39knights]

@@jaykay4541 "...Mary’s conception or her being sinless ever mentioned ..." It is in Luke 1:28. Mary is addressed with a title 'Hail, Full of Grace'. When exegeted properly it tells you directly that Mary was conceived without sin and remained so her entire life. Just because you don't understand, or because of your pre-conceived false theology can't accept it; doesn't make it untrue. '... No one else is good let alone sinless...' You mean like Enoch who walked with God and then was no more??. Or do you mean the Billions or Trillions of Angels who did not fall with Lucifer?? Care to show me in the bible where it actually says that Mary sinned? That is why I will stick with the true Church Jesus founded and the Apostolic Faith than follow the mis-leading opinion of a self-appointed arm-chair bible guru who thinks he is more infallible than the Church Fathers, all the Saints, and the Pope himself. Good luck with that.

[@ElectroShock005]

As a Chaldean Catholic u really made me understand Catholicism more so thank you

[@oreax7142]

i just got my second rosary my first one got stolen at school 📿 Glory be to Jesus Christ

[@MerliiinWyllt]

Ask St Anthony for it to be returned to you. Try a Novena for 9 Days it could come back!

[@oreax7142]

@@MerliiinWyllt i will

[@1monk1year]

Bro really sounds like he just woke up twice.

[@BensWorkshop]

It is amazing how far people will move from their historic position to maintain an argument.

[@kennynoNope]

Is the historical position Vatican 2? That Catholics have the same god that Islam has?

[@BensWorkshop]

@@kennynoNope Can you post which cannon of Vatican 2 you disagree with? As for Islam, it claims to believe in the God of Abraham and indeed Allah is Arabic for God so Christians who speak Arabic use the word Allah for God. As to the nature of Islam, and therefore what it says about the God in which they believe, that is a different matter.

[@kennynoNope]

@@BensWorkshop nostra aetate 3 your wrong they don’t even believe in the Abraham of the Bible they believe in a completely different made up idea of his life and to be Muslim you must deny the trinity and that Jesus even died on the cross so please try again how do they worship the one God and not the devil ?

[@BensWorkshop]

@@kennynoNope There is no doubt that the Qu'ran gets a lot wrong whilst claiming to be virtually dictated by the Angle Gabriel. So they do believe in the Same Abraham but get a lot wrong. They also believe in the same Moses but think Kora's rebellion was by the Samaritans who did not exist till 700 BC. They do believe in Jesus, though not as The Son of God, but do also believe in the Virgin Mary. They believe that Jesus sits at the Right Hand of God, though they don't believe he is Father. Quite a lot of the Qu'ran appears to be ripped off from early Christian writings and then edited and added to. For all the world it looks like something that evolved from a Heretic anti Trinitarian sect. Does that make them devil worshippers? No more than Protestants. @kennynoNope @BensWorkshop nostra aetate 3 your wrong they don’t even believe in the Abraham of the Bible they believe in a completely different made up idea of his life and to be Muslim you must deny the trinity and that Jesus even died on the cross so please try again how do they worship the one God and not the devil ?

[@kennynoNope]

@@BensWorkshop so if my friend “Mark” tells me an angel came to him and told him stories about Abraham and Moses that contradict the Bible and that Jesus isn’t god and he never died is he worshiping the true god? So any religion that uses names from the Bible but believes virtually the opposite of you is worshiping god?

[@michaelmarcus509]

First video I’ve seen on this channel, I’m oriental orthodox. I’ve seen weak and deceptive and arrogant arguments about Catholicism. Only through knowing a Catholic and their Catholic family intimately have I learned there’s more then meets the eye and casual and face value arguments don’t hold water a lot of the time. Doesn’t mean that church is perfect there’s a lot of issues going on but it’s helped me be more fair and balanced and respectful. This is a beautiful video, and I’m very impressed with your defense and reasoning. Saw you first on the Nicea 2025 ecumenical video and loved that as it made many concepts we all hold against eachother reasonable and closer then I expected. May God bless you and lead us all to him.

[@PXLISHXDXW]

Damn, 0 comments in 57 seconds?, fell off

[@VaticanII_isValid]

I've seen this comment to many times.

[@Jaleeha]

Lol

[@theeasternjourney]

Rejection of IC is a novelty in EO Church, Fr Romanides is a source of this rejection. If immaculate conception is correctly understood as you have said in this video then every single EO by necessity must believe in it as well.

[@MrRedDotEm]

Your a warrior brother love watching you defend the One True Catholic Church keep it up🙏✝️🇻🇦✨✨

[@romualdspizans3163]

Similar to purgatory,Orthodox church rejecting,but at the same time pray for the dead

[@decrix]

Glory to God for another fire video!! Yes we must pray for the unification. Amen. 🙏

[@Teelan.5268]

Your videos are sooooooo good and well spoken. You have helped me so much on my journey into Catholicism, thank you lots, keep up the good work, your videos are amazing!

[@X.Plays.44]

Loving the uploads bro! Keep it up🙏🏽

[@ChristisLord7777]

Hey Brother, I have been commenting on that Australian protestant youtubers videos to debunk the nonsense he repeatedly puts out. You need to debate him. God bless you

[@J-PLeigh8409]

Saint Mary was always, & has always been "Full of Grace".....but of course as she gave birth to & is the mother of the Son of God's love....the Theotokos, the Mother of Almighty God, the Ark of the New Eternal Covenant...that is mind blowingly incredible & she would have to be given divine grace, kept from falling, protected from sin, holy & beautiful, the Mother of Christ, & the Church

[@johnduncan7484]

“My soul GLORIFIES the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my SAVIOR. “ - Luke 1:46-47

[@VaticanKnight]

Amazing!

[@Migz2682]

I occasionally listen to an orthodox question and Answer show on KZbin. The priest says that Mary showed the sin of pride at the wedding of Canna. Ironically, it is a priest that wants unity between catholics unorthodox christians.

[@OceanPlantsLove]

excellent video. thank you for making this.

[@jmshotyou]

This one was a straight banger. One of your best videos yet. I started studying EO and the many arguments they had against the Catholic church. Just like the Protestants, they simply are ignorant to what the catholic Church actually teaches.

[@virginlamo8202]

A sad thing is Roots of Orthodoxy had that priest on and he was talking about Orthodox’s toll houses What he described sounds a whole lot like Purgatory He then talked about Purgatory. What he described sounded more like Hell than it did Purgatory.

[@Leavemealonenowplz]

The Orthodox people I’ve met online and in real life get really mad when I point out stuff like this.

[@godfreym3550]

At this point it looks like they engage in deliberate misrepresentations just like Protestants do.

[@Halalhogan_2.0]

@@Leavemealonenowplzbecause it’s not accurate

[@deerez_3447]

Great Video Alex!!

[@Diostesalvecanalcatolico]

Brother, do you have an email to reach out to you? Would love to have you on my Spanish channel. Let me know. Israel from Dios Te Salve🙏

[@richlopez5896]

St. Ephraim the Syrian “You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361] St. Ambrose of Milan “Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22-30 [A.D. 387]

[@christianlamb3911]

Voice of Balboa dropped heat today fr

[@danielbernal9422]

Does anyone know what is the guys' spanish channel?

[@LambsServant]

Look at Isaiah 66:7. We read the following, 7 "Before she was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she delivered a son. " Now, Isaiah was familiar that women were under the curse of having labor pains as the result of what happened in the Garden of Eden. The woman gave birth to a son and she did not suffer labor pains. We know that Isaiah is a major prophet so what was he prophesying? Now, let's look at Luke 2:7. Here is the verse, 7 "And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn." We notice two things: 1. Mary gave birth then 2. She immediately wrapped Him in swaddling clothes. Now, we do not see St. Joseph or a mid-wife doing what Mary did. I have not had children, obviously, but I'm sure that a woman is in no condition to immediately wrap her child in clothes. This indicates that she did not suffer labor pains. Since she did not then she must not have been under the curse of labor pains, thus, we have another Biblical reference for the Immaculate Conception.

[@silveriorebelo2920]

typical orthodox apologetics: cultivate total twisting of the catholic teaching

[@lindseyk7095]

Is there a way to explain Revelation 12:2 “She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.” If she didn’t labor in pain to give birth? 🤔 Just asking because it’s one of verses when I do the scriptural rosary. Thanks in advance.

[@jakubratajczak9269]

Yes. Revelation is highly symbolic. Woman is Mary, and the Church, and the Israel. There are many meanings and interpretations. For Mary not feeling labor pains, check Isaiah 66:7.

[@katydidd6321]

Your videos are good. Subscribed. 👍 This priest surprises me. On Grace and Free Will by Saint Augustine was supposed to combat Pelagianism, and I thought the Orthodox also venerated Saint Augustine? Perhaps he is a bit of a renegade, idk.

[@lifematterspodcast]

The Eastern Orthodox for the most part agree with the Immaculate Conception, they just different terms for it. But some EO are super resistant to their own beliefs in order to protest Rome. We should all just be honest so we can be more unified

[@vigilantchristian6314]

Can by one here explain the reason for the Union of Brest in 1595. I understand that it represented an agreement by Eastern Orthodox Churches in the Ruthenian areas to accept the Pope's authority while maintaining Eastern Orthodox liturgical practices. Was it a political decision to have Romes protection from Ottoman persecution or for theological reasons?

[@josh39684]

St Irenaeus is my favorite saint and he really helped me on this

[@MathAdam]

KZbin served up a Mormon ad to me prior to the video.

[@deutschermichel5807]

Are Eastern Catholic exarchates in the West only for foreigners from the East? Will Eastern Catholics welcome Latin Catholics in their churches? Are divine liturgies held in Ukrainian or Greek?

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

No. Yes. Depends on what most parishioners speak. God bless you!

[@oxminer8453]

This is the most important doctrine about our holy mother because it explains every doctrine about her, actually when I was confused by our catholic church, by the prayer of the rosary I started to understand about our holy mother Mary and all the catholic teaching (of course by grace). But I just have one request from the Patreons to ask and I need it so much to fully understand our faith is about the The doctrine of purgatory. Please ask Voice of Reason to make a video about it.... And I have an orthodox friend that when I explained this doctrine to him he started to believe in it. FYI I am a part of the Greek melekite catholic church from Lebanon (basically the same as Voice of Reason church)

[@Toby-rl8sg]

Voice of Reason 🔥🙌🙏

[@susansmadrid4699]

Was mother Mary mother of all ❤ immaculate consepsion? I say yes ,, Blessed to be a Catholic ❤

[@joycecaresosa2000]

Bless morning world God Bless you❤❤

[@Itz_me_David_sta_ima]

Mary was sinless from begging of her life in hers mothers womb aka her mother name was Anna shes also Saint in chatolicism

[@donmorrissey1453]

That priest is arguing and sounding like a protestant with those arguments

[@thisis_chavez]

Prayers for the unity of Christendom ❤

[@roseog4134]

Just curious, so if Mary was born sinless does that put her at the same level as Jesus Christ? Because Jesus was sinless and perfect…. I’m new to this

[@RestingJudge]

No. Jesus is the union of the Divine person of the Trinity, the Son, and human nature. 100% God & 100% man. Mary was just conceived with original grace same as Adam and Eve before the fall. So it's fitting to say she is the new Eve because she was given the gift of original grace and never fell into sin.

[@betterhappensdaily]

Its not putting her equal to Jesus. The best way to describe are from the word of Bishop Barron it is that she is the first person to participate in the new plan of Salvation. In the garden the Women (eve) leads man away from God. But in Johns Gospel, with Mary being the new eve (which is why Jesus refers to her as women), Women brings God to man by having God (Jesus) start his ministry, read the first three chapters of Johns Gospel! Even the church fathers thought this way, Here is St Augustine on it briefly: “Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins-for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?-so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?” (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).

[@jdub3999]

Just to add more: Blessed Virgin Mary is fully human (a creature) that is “Full of Grace”, Luke 1:28. Jesus has two natures, fully man and fully God. Catholics believe that She needed Jesus as Her Savior. Catholics do not worship her, we ask her to pray for us. Jesus told us, she is Our Mother, when He was on the Cross. She is alive and in Heaven, as are all the Saints, (James 5:15)

[@Emmanuel_EEE]

​@@RestingJudgeWhere are you getting the Idea that Mary was conceived with original grace like Adam and Eve before the Fall? Like any scripture references?

[@MaranglikPeterTo-Rot]

❤️❤️

[@ModernLady]

I heard someone explain the immaculate conception in a new and interesting way: God selected the woman to carry him. He selected the egg that would become him. Women have their eggs from the very start. So the egg that became Jesus would have been made at conception. So that means that egg needed to be full of grace from the start. Which means since conception.

[@coreybojorquez]

Hey I am a former catholic now Protestant but have been researching the Church’s history and have become quite interested in learning about Catholicism and the Eastern Orthodox church. One thing that still doesn’t quite make sense to me is while I understand Mary and the saints are not worshiped but rather prayed to to be an intercession for us, why is that necessary? The Bible states multiple times that Jesus is our intercessor with God, so that would make it pointless to have anyone else in my opinion. If anyone can offer me some insight it would be much appreciated! God bless

[@RGJ770]

Catholic Answers is a wonderful resource. “Though the Bible tells us that we must go to God in our necessities, it also encourages us to ask for each other’s prayers. After all, salvation is a family affair. Can the eye say to the hand, “I need you not?” Neither should we say that we don’t need the prayers of the rest of the body of Christ (on earth or in heaven). Immediately after requesting that we pray for each other in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Paul affirms that Christ is the one mediator. Again, let us define our terms. A mediator is one who comes between two parties with the purpose of uniting them. Christ played a role of mediation that only the God-man could, but Christians are still called to serve as mediators between Christ and the world. In no way does this diminish the unique work of Christ. On the contrary, it manifests it. For example, Christ is our only high priest, but we are all called to be a nation of priests (1 Pet. 2:9). Christ is the only Son of God, yet we are made sons of God through adoption (Gal. 3:4). The Christian life consists in being conformed to Christ, and as Paul says, being “God’s fellow-workers” (1 Cor. 3:9) in his plan of salvation.”

[@coreybojorquez]

@@RGJ770 thank you very much

[@BelfastIsRed]

The voice of rocky✝️🙏

[@cyril3885a]

as an Eastern Orthodox, I profess the Filioque, all four Marian Dogmas, Papal Primacy, ADS, and Thomism. However I don’t want to leave my parish, any advice?

[@petros-estin-petra-]

@@cyril3885a Engage them to become Eastern Catholic.

[@ThomasVicenti]

If you sincerely believe these doctrines and dogmas then it is necessary to become Catholic. I know it is not an easy decision and it may be emotionally difficult. Perhaps, pray for guidance to do the will of God. You can try checking out an Eastern Catholic Byzantine parish if you're able to. You'll get to keep a lot of the Orthodox way of worshipping at the Divine Liturgy while worshipping at a church that fully affirms your belief. Ultimately you have to be honest with yourself spiritually. If your local Orthodox pastor or bishop were aware of your beliefs, they may refuse to commune you and they may consider you a Uniate.

[@Brody_Tanner]

You can become a Byzantine Catholic. They are Orthodox in communion with Rome and have the same Byzantine rite and traditions as the orthodox

[@stevenirizarry9427]

You’re not an Eastern Orthodox

[@cyril3885a]

@@stevenirizarry9427 I am, I’m baptized and chrismated Orthodox. I used to be a dyerite Orthodox for a lone time, denying ADS, blaspheming and saying horrible things about Catholics and non orthodox. Learn what Orthodoxy teaches and compare it to Church History

[@Jesusisrisen3]

Which church is the true church ?

[@ICXCIsLord]

W

[@michaelnavalta4815]

I've always heard that "We inherited original sin through Adam and Eve" and this is the first time I've heard that "We lack original grace because of Adam and Eve" I'm curious where that confusion came about?

[@Emmanuel_EEE]

Not sure where they are getting this. 😂

[@esewey1289]

❤❤❤

[@catholicdexter]

Glory to the Triune God🇻🇦🇻🇦

[@SolidSnake0]

Translation: "guys it's true! The pope says it is! Why won't you Orthodox just do what the Pope tells you!?" Us: "sorry bro, Steven can't be a God mommy". Lol ok I could've taken this seriously, but there was just no need to. It's such a sophist argument he made in this video, it's honestly just not worth the effort. Anyone who lacks enough sense not to see that, isn't going to be swayed by any number facts. They just aren't interested in knowing the truth. And that's fine, it's a free country. You can live in whatever fairytale fantasy world you want.

[@IsaiahINRI]

If Mary isn't human because she didn't sin, them Jesus isn't human because He didn't sin either. Like you said, this is what happens when you go against dogma

[@georgepierson4920]

Who is claiming that Mary is not a human being?

[@IsaiahINRI]

@@georgepierson4920 The Orthodox is claiming that RC rob Mary of her humanity by saying she never sinned

[@georgepierson4920]

@@IsaiahINRI I would like to see them apply that logic to Jesus.

[@Itz_me_David_sta_ima]

She was human bro she was just a sinless

[@jaykay4541]

Jesus says explicitly ‘Why do you call me good, none are good but God alone’ To be sinless(truly good) you must be God. No mere human is sinless. Jesus is human but also God. Mary was human, do you believe the heresy that she is also god????

[@Whosphred]

There are a lot I don’t fully understand with this. I do believe that Mary lived a holy life but I can’t say she is sinless. Romans 3:23 says, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” God can still use her as a sinner to give birth to Jesus. She is in a need of a savior just like us. If she was without sin it would mean she wouldn’t need a savior. Saying Mary is the new Eve and Jesus being the new Adam doesn’t make sense to me. It would mean that they are both equal. It would mean we would need to elevate Mary to the same status as Jesus. I have a lot more questions regarding to this issue. Thank you for the videos you make. They are informative and I have learned a lot because of it. Thank you!!

[@jeromejenkins865]

100% agreed.

[@MrKnowitall934]

“All have sinned” does not imply “all”. Listen, did Jesus sin? No, so “all” cannot be literal. No baby, toddler or handicapped with limited mental capacity can sin. Mary, being preserved by God, is an exception. And you are right, Mary could have been sinful when she gave birth to our Savior, but God did it in the most perfect way by preserving her from sin! St. Augustine wrote about this, that she had the merritt to birth Jesus since she had no sin! I would look up the connections of Mary being referred to as “The New Ark of the Covenant”. I was struggling with this for awhile too, i came up with the conclusion at one point saying “For nine months, she was holy. But she sinned after.” But then, how can the ark have a stain of sin? I could go deeper into explanation, but please look it up! William Albrecht and Sam Shamoun are the people to listen too about this subject as well!!

[@notmatt57]

@Whosphred I would like to pose a question to you in order to help with this. As the video suggest that if Mary is said to be sinless the question becomes, how did she become sinless? Was it of her own merit? The answer to this is no, because we are not saved by our works, we are saved through faith that is later shown in our works. Could God of made her sinless at conception is another question, this would be yes since God can do anything logically possible. Also, it can take the form of could God of made her sinless at another time in her life, which would also be yes. The difference though is at what point in time could God have made her sinless, the catholic church goes with the idea of at conception she was saved. Due to it having to be sometime before Gabriel came and visit her. As for putting her in equal footing to Jesus if we say she is sinless is not true, since Mary is saved by God not from herself making her still reliant on God for salvation, but Jesus is sinless because of his own divine nature and is not reliant on anyone else. Lastly, I would like to suggest that the creation of Adam and Eve are not equal. God creates Adam from dust, but Eve comes out of Adam. Adam showed disobedience and allowed for sin to enter the world, but Jesus through His obedience and sacrifice, brought redemption and the possibility of new life to humanity. St. Paul. In 1 Corinthians 15:22, Paul writes, "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. Showing us that where Adam failed, Jesus succeeded, bringing salvation to humanity. As for Mary, Eve was the mother of all the living and her disobedience led to the Fall, Mary's obedience to God's will brought about the birth of Jesus. Where Mary says "yes" to God's plan, reversing Eve's "no." I know this a long reply, but I hope this helps a little bit in understanding the topic more.

[@RestingJudge]

God could've saved us without the incarnation, the crucifixion, the old covenant, the new covenant, etc. God could've preserved Adam and Eve. It's not a question of necessity, but if it was fitting. I fail to see the logic of Mary being sinless as putting her as equal to Christ. Adam and Eve were sinless, were they on the same level as Jesus? Jesus is the hypostatic union of God and man. Mankind in our truest human state, sinless, cannot compare.

[@Whosphred]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@MrKnowitall934thanks for the response. You’re right baby, toddlers or handicapped with limited mental capacity don’t understand the concept of sin and therefore can’t be held to same standards. Thank you for the book suggestions. I’ll get on it!

[@redeemed7868]

Hello, that born againg Christian named Ryan replied to your video of him. You should reply back to him if you believe he's wrong.

[@theSpaghettimeister]

The answer would be yes. I've had this conversation with my old Priest, prior to reconverting to Catholicism. In Orthodoxy, it is understood that Mary, though without personal sin, had she died before her nature was purified, would have gone to Sheol and resided in the Limbo of the Fathers.

[@lorriwest1787]

What about canes descendants

[@MerliiinWyllt]

💪💪💪💪💪💪💪

[@duncanwashburn]

Dear Voice: seems the same Greek word you sight in Luke 1:28 which speaks about Mary and grace is also found for all true believers in Eph 1:6 so to say that means Mary is without sin seems a wrong understanding because NO other true believer, who has that same grace, is without sin.

[@atgred]

Not the same Greek word. The one used ONLY for Mary is “Kecharitomene”, witch is defined as “Full of Grace SINCE THE BEGINNING”. In Ephesians 1:6 the word is χάριτος (Charitos), not the same as the one used for Mary. And in this case, yes it refers to a “fulfilling of grace” but NOT from the beginning.

[@duncanwashburn]

@@atgred you are correct that they are slightly different. The greek word in Luke is derived from the word in Ephesians. The word in Luke does not seem to have the meaning you think it does. It means 'highly favored' which is quite different from your meaning but either way, it does not mean 'without sin'.

[@VoiceOfReason_]

@@duncanwashburn no, the meaning of kechariotmene does not mean highly favored…the word CHARITO (grace) is literally in the word….so if your translation does not have the word ‘grace’ in it, then it’s jot a good translation. Full of grace or perfectly graced is a correct translation.

[@duncanwashburn]

@@VoiceOfReason_ we'll have to agree to disagree. I do understand you need to have it mean what you say it means. Mary was a wonderful woman who found grace in God's eyes as did Noah and many others in Scripture. If I were to guess, from what I see of her in the NT, she would cringe seeing how the Catholic Church elevates her. Please don't read into this what you think we ALL believe. Ask me to explain instead of putting words in my mouth. BTW, looking at what you have said you believe is exactly what I mean. Grace means 'favored'. Surely Mary was specially favored to have the Human Body of her Savior growing in her womb. That is a grace no one else had. That does not mean she was sinless. From her own mouth, she acknowledge her Savior. Only sinners need a Savior and saving. As a Bible teacher, I have loved teaching about how amazing Mary was and how she's been an important example to all of us. I have been sad over the years that she's been looked at with such extremes ... the CC on one side of that extreme and a good portion of non-Catholic Christians being on the other extreme. The NT says that Jesus lives in all true believers. We aren't sinless therefore Mary did not need to be sinless to have Baby Jesus growing inside of her. The beauty of the Scriptures is that God loves us sinners so much that He uses us, if we are willing, to help other sinners see the Truth. Mary pointed us to Jesus while she was still alive, this side of the grave, and did a wonderful 'job' of it.

[@VoiceOfReason_]

@@duncanwashburn So you’re disagreeing with what Scripture clearly says. The word grace is in the original Greek of Luke 1:28, that cannot be denied. I do understand that you need to make it say something other than what it actually says in order to maintain your false, erroneous understanding. If you were to GUESS, you would say that Mary would “cringe” at how the Catholic Church elevates her?? See, that’s your problem - you have to guess. Catholics don’t have to guess, we just believe what Scripture says. Mary HERSELF says in Scripture “all generations will call me blessed” and she also says “my soul magnifies the Lord.” That’s also in Luke 1. Go back and read it. And you have also demonstrated that you don’t know what the Catholic Church actually teaches about Mary’s sinlessness. Guess what! The Catholic Church teaches that Mary DID need a savior and WAS saved by her son Jesus Christ! Jesus saved her when he created her! He saved her by creating her without sin at all, and keeping her from ever falling into sin, which the Bible God can do for anyone in Jude 1:24. So Jesus saved Mary just likes he saves all of us, but He saved her in a unique way, due to the role she plays in our Salvation of GIVING Jesus the sinless flesh that was sacrificed on the cross in order for our sins to be paid for. Mary plays an essential and unique role in our salvation whether you like it or not. It’s what the Bible teaches.

[@marshallsilverstar9636]

I think i get something wrong . Arent we actually saved when we die ? Mary still had a mortal body but not mortal mind? I am EO and i get why you want an answear to when she was saved but she could always say no to God . She is not the panagia because God just made her his puppet but because she chose God every single time dispite the huge resposibility she had . She is Panagia and Theotokos because in her Free will between Sin and God She chose God.

[@cvrki7]

So does true immaculate conception suggest Mary didn’t need Christ to be saved?

[@christophersalinas2722]

No? Where would you get that idea

[@cvrki7]

@@christophersalinas2722 Well he’s saying she had salvific grace when she was born so why would she need Christ?

[@killianmiller6107]

Salvific grace is from Christ, nobody says Mary was saved apart from Jesus.

[@christophersalinas2722]

@@cvrki7 Key word, grace. Who gives grace? Christ. So… Christ already saved Mary.

[@cvrki7]

@@killianmiller6107 How did she receive salvific Grace from Christ before he was born

[@looqo7632]

The Immaculate Conception isn't a dogma in EO, which is why there's different answers. The problem i have with THIS (RC) idea of the immaculate conception is why did she have to die? Or why was death still coming for her physical body? Christ, who is sinless, and because of, had authority over death, which is why He could lay down His life by His own will. The Theotokos, because she had no sin from conception, should also have power over death, no? Also, this idea of "being in hell" seems off. Who are we to know, ever, who is in hell? Who are we to say so? Mary did what was presribed under the Old Covenant to deal with sin. In that manner, she was sinless prior to the Anunciation but "filled with Grace" at

[@desmondhutchinson6095]

It seems your comment has a lot of typos, but believe I understood the main point. (Why did Mary die?) As you dig further regarding the immaculate conception, you'll find that her being preserved from original sin is that she was free from moral fault, but not the physical effects of the fall. So she experienced pain, got sick, and could die etc. The same is true for Christ who without original sin, like Mary was always in communion with God, yet Christ's wounds are meritorious, the same can be said about Mary. I would point you to "Holy Mary in Eastern Christianity with Dr. Goff" which does a great job covering the topic.

[@looqo7632]

@desmondhutchinson6095 Sorry about the typos. Risks of phone usage I guess 😆 I wasn't exactly asking WHY she had to die. Rather, why did death come for her when she was sinless? Being sinless would not make you subject to death. On the meritorious aspect, I admit I am ignorant about this aspect of Catholicism. I'm EO, BTW. Thank you for your response.

[@desmondhutchinson6095]

@@looqo7632 Yeah now worries lol. She dies since she’s a child of Adam. That video I recommended was really helpful for me to understand it better

[@looqo7632]

@@desmondhutchinson6095 Christ was a child of Adam, no?

[@desmondhutchinson6095]

@@looqo7632 Yeah. He is technically even implicitly called son of Adam, since he calls himself “the son of man” which is spoken of in the OT. And in Hebrew “man” is “Adam”. So i’m short yeah he is a son of Adam.

[@michaelvalverde879]

Several orthodox believe the same exact idea about Mary’s sinlessness. This guy think he speaks for all of orthodoxy..

[@gobucs3146]

If any Orthodox believe in the papist idea of the Virgin Mary’s being born without sin, they are wrong, not the Priest who you called “guy”.

[@michaelvalverde879]

@@gobucs3146 you are not orthodox brother.

[@maz7958]

Where im from youll struggle to find a orthodox priest that can recite qoutes from the bible there all into politics lol

[@Itz_me_David_sta_ima]

Hey bro tgers smthing that bugging me so yes we are made on Gods image we have free will also if I or you or anyone go to heavene do we have still that free will and we can again sin but i knowed Jesus took all sons of world and its said in Heaven it will not be a any tears or any pain so if this is true then but it is we are not anymore free we are over Gods control isnt this right or.

[@basilsteinle]

I understand that all humans, before Christ’s resurrection, went to Hades. That would include Christ himself, who freed the righteous from Hades.

[@eddardgreybeard]

They just have a different theology regarding original sin, so there was nothing to preserve Mary from regarding their understanding of Original Sin. They still believe in the Sinless Perpetual virgin taken body and soul into heaven by Christ, her Son.

[@abominable.7800]

just because an idea about something was present in the early church doesnt make it biblical, neither does it make it a broad belief among many christians of that time. And as for when marry became 'sinless' wouldnt any person whos sin is forgiven be considered sinless? i believe marry was sinless the time she gave birth to jesus but she certainly didnt stay that way all her life. continous repentance of ones sins must be done for sinlessness.

[@georgepierson4920]

You have that all wrong.

[@abominable.7800]

@@georgepierson4920 ok, does being saved mean your sinless?

[@atgred]

@@abominable.7800In case of our Blessed Mother, she was saved BEFORE “the fall”. While the rest are saved “after the fall” through baptism. 1st century Origen of Alexandria in his commentary In Rom. R,501. "THE CHURCH HAS RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES the custom of administering baptism EVEN TO CHILDREN. For those to whom the divine mysteries were entrusted knew very well that they all carry the stain of original sin, which must be washed away by water and the spirit "

[@jakubratajczak9269]

Clearly you don't understand the Tradition. Early Church Fathers learned everything from the Apostles themselves, who got everything they knew from our Lord. Holy Spirit is leading the Church to all truth and understanding, as it was promised by Jesus, not only through the Bible, but also oral teachings. Bible wasn't even composed by then. And yet both the Tradition and the Bible are based on Apostolic teaching. So claiming Early Fathers ideas weren't broadly taught and believed AND biblical, is just wrong and not truth.

[@kennethprather9633]

Have you seen Jesus?

[@frankbob4163]

If Mary was sinless and denied Gods grace to carry Jesus would she still be sinless. The Lord doesn’t force anything and for her to be sinless, God would be forcing her to carry Jesus

[@killianmiller6107]

Why base a doctrine on a hypothetical?

[@jdub3999]

Please look up Predestination. God gives us free will but God knows everything- the past, present and future.

[@frankbob4163]

@killianmiller6107 He gave a hypothetical if Mary died before the Lords work was finished

[@petros-estin-petra-]

Thomas Aquinas denied the Immaculate Conception, though. See: Summa theologica, Tertia Pars, Questio 27

[@pdub69triniboy]

No one church father or teacher are above the church, this is Doma of the church, and it's final

[@RestingJudge]

And the Church decided he was wrong. Aquinas wasn't his own infallible magisterium.

[@petros-estin-petra-]

@@RestingJudge Yes, of course. There is just a rumor going around that everything that is defined as dogma today has always been believed by all the Church Fathers (which is not true in this case) Thomas Aquinas lived in the 13th century, so around 200 years after the Great Schism. Given that the Orthodox are theologically more or less stuck in the first millennium, it should come as no surprise that they do not hold the same position as the Catholic Church today.

[@betterhappensdaily]

Actually here from the summa: You have to make sure you read his answers to the objections, when Aquinas writes, he writes in response to objections not in commentary. Here is his response: Article 4. Whether by being sanctified in the womb the Blessed Virgin was preserved from all actual sin? Objection 1. It would seem that by being sanctified in the womb the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all actual sin. For, as we have already stated (Article 3), after her first sanctification the fomes remained in the Virgin. Now the motion of the fomes, even if it precede the act of the reason, is a venial sin, albeit extremely slight, as Augustine says in his work De Trinitate [Cf. Sent. ii, D, 24]. Therefore there was some venial sin in the Blessed Virgin. Objection 2. Further, Augustine (Qq. Nov. et Vet. Test. lxxiii on Luke 2:35: "Thy own soul a sword shall pierce") says that the Blessed Virgin "was troubled with wondering doubt at the death of our Lord." But doubt in matters of faith is a sin. Therefore the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all actual sin. Objection 3. Further, Chrysostom (Hom. xlv in Matth.) expounding the text: "Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee," says: "It is clear that they did this from mere vain glory." Again, on John 2:3: "They have no wine," the same Chrysostom says that "she wished to do them a favor, and raise herself in their esteem, by means of her Son: and perchance she succumbed to human frailty, just as did His brethren when they said: 'Manifest Thyself to the world.'" And a little further on he says: "For as yet she did not believe in Him as she ought." Now it is quite clear that all this was sinful. Therefore the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all sin. On the contrary, Augustine says (De Nat. et Grat. xxxvi): "In the matter of sin, it is my wish to exclude absolutely all questions concerning the holy Virgin Mary, on account of the honor due to Christ. For since she conceived and brought forth Him who most certainly was guilty of no sin, we know that an abundance of grace was given her that she might be in every way the conqueror of sin." I answer that, God so prepares and endows those, whom He chooses for some particular office, that they are rendered capable of fulfilling it, according to 2 Corinthians 3:6: "(Who) hath made us fit ministers of the New Testament." Now the Blessed Virgin was chosen by God to be His Mother. Therefore there can be no doubt that God, by His grace, made her worthy of that office, according to the words spoken to her by the angel (Luke 1:30-31): "Thou hast found grace with God: behold thou shalt conceive," etc. But she would not have been worthy to be the Mother of God, if she had ever sinned. First, because the honor of the parents reflects on the child, according to Proverbs 17:6: "The glory of children are their fathers": and consequently, on the other hand, the Mother's shame would have reflected on her Son. Secondly, because of the singular affinity between her and Christ, who took flesh from her: and it is written (2 Corinthians 6:15): "What concord hath Christ with Belial?" Thirdly, because of the singular manner in which the Son of God, who is the "Divine Wisdom" (1 Corinthians 1:24) dwelt in her, not only in her soul but in her womb. And it is written (Wisdom 1:4): "Wisdom will not enter into a malicious soul, nor dwell in a body subject to sins." We must therefore confess simply that the Blessed Virgin committed no actual sin, neither mortal nor venial; so that what is written (Canticles 4:7) is fulfilled: "Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee," etc.

[@RestingJudge]

@@petros-estin-petra- I don't think the video was saying they believed the dogma was accepted explicitly by the Church fathers but more you can see the seeds of that Dogma in the beliefs expressed by the Fathers and the proper understanding of what original sin is in the Catholic sense (not the Calvinist one that many seem to think is taught). St. John Henry Neumann teaching of the development of doctrine talks about this, the fundamental truth doesn't change, but our understanding of truth grows. The same could be said for the ante-nicene fathers and the trinity. Would they have expressed trinitarian theology in the exact language? No, but they're belief was definitely trinitarian.

[@zzzzppppooooo]

Wait a second...so if mary was sinnless from the beginning, in that she was born without original sin, which is the reason for human death, why was she in need of a savior? And why are we conflating sinlessness with being saved? Your argument makes no sense ...the rightious prophets weren't without sin, but they didn't go to hell either? It seems like there is a constant flipping between personal sin and original sin and a conflation of terms.

[@georgepierson4920]

The Definition Wherefore, in humility and fasting, we unceasingly offered our private prayers as well as the public prayers of the Church to God the Father through his Son, that he would deign to direct and strengthen our mind by the power of the Holy Spirit. In like manner did we implore the help of the entire heavenly host as we ardently invoked the Paraclete. Accordingly, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, for the honor of the Holy and undivided Trinity, for the glory and adornment of the Virgin Mother of God, for the exaltation of the Catholic Faith, and for the furtherance of the Catholic religion, by the authority of Jesus Christ our Lord, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own: “We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”[29] Hence, if anyone shall dare - which God forbid! - to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should dare to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he thinks in his heart.

[@zzzzppppooooo]

@@georgepierson4920 Okay let's go with that. How is that not palagian, if she was granted that special grace du to the merrits of christ, which are created? Since the saints of old did not have this special salvific grace afforded to them, did they go to hell after death?

[@georgepierson4920]

@@zzzzppppooooo How do you define Hell??

[@zzzzppppooooo]

@@georgepierson4920I think there are many things you could say about it, but for this instance its sufficient to limit it to the place originally created for the devil and his angels

[@georgepierson4920]

​@@zzzzppppoooooSo, your religion teaches that Mary and the Saints are in Hell.

[@pisopiloto7504]

I bet that priest was a calvinist

[@Brody_Tanner]

He is orthodox

[@ziftyFN]

why are we even fighting against each other. the main point is, Follow Jesus Christ, screw all sorts of Christianity, i just follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, do the will of The Lord. Brothers in Christ fighting wheter Chatolic is true, or Orthodox, or protestant is just Sad to see.

[@frankbob4163]

Was Noah sinless for obey god and building the ark

[@Brody_Tanner]

No

[@LightOfAllMankind]

If only Roman Catholicism rebuked their Eastern Rite Churches who reject most Latin doctrines and continue the Orthodox ones…then your rebuttle would mean something.

[@killianmiller6107]

Examples?

[@LightOfAllMankind]

@@killianmiller6107 Uniates reject the Filioque, Immaculate Conception and Assumption of Mary, Created Grace, and instead believe in the Monarchial role of the Father as sole source, that Mary had original sin (but just simply didn’t sin) and therefore the Dormition of Mary, the Essence and Energy distinction doctrine, just to name some of the big ones

[@killianmiller6107]

As far as I know, certain eastern Catholics recite the creed without the filioque, though they don’t necessarily reject it outright. The Latin Catholic understanding of the Trinity agrees with the monarchy of the Father as the sole source (the Son proceeds from the Father and the Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son) but perhaps puts not as much emphasis on it as the East tends to do. As I’m researching a little right now, Eastern Orthodox seem to reject that Mary didn’t have original sin, but idk about Eastern Catholics since Google doesn’t show much on the topic. But on original sin and the general rejection of Augustine’s thoughts, that was a matter of how OS was transmitted, ie traducianism. On the assumption of Mary, it was my assumption (😏) all of them did believe in it but the question of whether she died or not before being assumed is open either way. Hopefully we get a Byzantine or some other Catholic to tell us from their experience whether they reject Latin Catholic dogmas or not.

[@VoiceOfReason_]

@@LightOfAllMankind I’m an Eastern Catholic , and no, we don’t reject a sign of teaching of the Roman Church. This is another really stupid myth and I can’t believe people still believe it. All you have to do is read the Eastern Catholic Catechisms. All of the dogmas defined by the Pope are there. Try again. All Catholics, East and west have complete unity…unlike the Eastern Orthodox Churches, which can’t even agree on who’s a Christian and who isn’t.

[@LightOfAllMankind]

@@VoiceOfReason_ That’s why your See dogmatized and venerate saints who died outside of communion after called your teachings evil and anti Christ. Because you’re so unified right? Catholics, including bishops and cardinals, today can’t decide if Frank is a formal heretic or just being “vague and misunderstood” because you are so unified and have the clarity that we lack…right? Does the SSPX have valid sacrements? Last time I checked, your popes have been saying don’t convert the EOs because we are already Christians and have the fullness of the faith. Massive cope by you dude.

[@frankbob4163]

this is where Catholics completely lose me. Mary needed a savior who was Jesus. If Mary was sinless were her parents and so on

[@Error._.404]

She was preserved from original sin. But the gates of heaven were still closed to all of humanity and only God could open them and he did that through his sacrifice.

[@Twin2241]

Heresy

[@grizzlyyork649]

Jay Dyer will eat this up

[@Ty-bw2ne]

….😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@MajorasTime]

The immaculate conception isn’t Jay Dyer’s expertise

[@grizzlyyork649]

@@MajorasTime again jay dyer will body this

[@abominable.7800]

first of all mary was jewish so we cant really answer that hypothetical.

[@gobucs3146]

If she was “immaculately conceived” she wouldn’t need a savior. Us Orthodox aren’t making any mistakes, the papist heretics are.

[@VoiceOfReason_]

@@gobucs3146 Mary being immaculately conceived IS how Jesus saved her! 🤦🏻‍♂️ you obviously haven’t read the document that defined the Immaculate Conception, which explicitly says that Mary was indeed in need of a savior and she was saved by her son by being created without sin. Maybe educate yourself before leaving ignorant comments on the internet for everyone to see.

[@matium1528]

​@@VoiceOfReason_So she was saved before she was born because she needed to be saved but she was not yet born... right 😂

[@gobucs3146]

@@VoiceOfReason_I don’t need to read your heretical documents…thanks. She wasn’t immaculate conceived. Never taught by the Church.

[@georgepierson4920]

@@gobucs3146 Here are examples of what early Christian writers had to say on the subject of Mary’s immaculate nature: The Ascension of Isaiah “[T]he report concerning the child was noised abroad in Bethlehem. Some said, ‘The Virgin Mary has given birth before she was married two months.’ And many said, ‘She has not given birth; the midwife has not gone up to her, and we heard no cries of pain’” (Ascension of Isaiah 11 [A.D. 70]). The Odes of Solomon “So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her to give life” (Odes of Solomon 19 [A.D. 80]). Justin Martyr “[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]). Irenaeus “Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband-for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply-having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith” (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]). “The Lord then was manifestly coming to his own things, and was sustaining them by means of that creation that is supported by himself. He was making a recapitulation of that disobedience that had occurred in connection with a tree, through the obedience that was upon a tree [i.e., the cross]. Furthermore, the original deception was to be done away with-the deception by which that virgin Eve (who was already espoused to a man) was unhappily misled. That this was to be overturned was happily announced through means of the truth by the angel to the Virgin Mary (who was also [espoused] to a man). . . . So if Eve disobeyed God, yet Mary was persuaded to be obedient to God. In this way, the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so it is rescued by a virgin. Virginal disobedience has been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way, the sin of the first created man received amendment by the correction of the First-Begotten” (ibid., 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]). Tertullian “It was while Eve was still a virgin that the word of the devil crept in to erect an edifice of death. Likewise through a virgin the Word of God was introduced to set up a structure of life. Thus what had been laid waste in ruin by this sex was by the same sex reestablished in salvation. Eve had believed the serpent; Mary believed Gabriel. That which the one destroyed by believing, the other, by believing, set straight” (The Flesh of Christ 17:4 [A.D. 210]. Pseudo-Melito “If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: ‘Be it done according to your will’” (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2-17 [A.D. 300]). Ephraim the Syrian “You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]). Ambrose of Milan “Mary’s life should be for you a pictorial image of virginity. Her life is like a mirror reflecting the face of chastity and the form of virtue. Therein you may find a model for your own life . . . showing what to improve, what to imitate, what to hold fast to” (The Virgins 2:2:6 [A.D. 377]). “The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater [to teach by example] than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue. When did she pain her parents even by a look? When did she disagree with her neighbors? When did she despise the lowly? When did she avoid the needy?” (ibid., 2:2:7). “Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22-30 [A.D. 387]). Augustine “That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself-of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom-but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head” (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]). “Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins-for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?-so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?” (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]). Timothy of Jerusalem “Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]). John the Theologian “[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]). “And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise” (ibid.). Gregory of Tours “The course of this life having been completed by blessed Mary, when now she would be called from the world, all the apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard that she was about to be taken from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and, taking her soul, he gave it over to the angel Michael and withdrew. At daybreak, however, the apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb, and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise, where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary’s body] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end” (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 584]). “But Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who is believed to be a virgin both before and after she bore him, has, as we said above, been translated into paradise, amid the singing of the angelic choirs, whither the Lord preceded her” (ibid., 1:8). NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004 IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

[@JASONSTUD-ox8gv]

I’ve studied the trinity and can tell you with certainty it’s a lie like all of Christianity

[@DannySaudade]

Tell us ,I want to know what you found that makes Christianity false. Probably you studied Trinidad and tobacco 😂😂😂😂

[@chriszekableyat9886]

You heard it from his own mouth “Mary was sinless since birth,” and I have not read in the Bible that Mary was sinless if she was sinless, Jesus Christ would’ve mentioned Mary as a very good example for the Jews but he didn’t, and this is why Catholics worships Mary for they made her equal as God, and in the Bible only Jesus Christ was mention sinless and no one else. This just proves the idolatry of the Catholic Christians.

[@betterhappensdaily]

Thomas Aquinas Summa: Article 4. Whether by being sanctified in the womb the Blessed Virgin was preserved from all actual sin? Objection 1. It would seem that by being sanctified in the womb the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all actual sin. For, as we have already stated (Article 3), after her first sanctification the fomes remained in the Virgin. Now the motion of the fomes, even if it precede the act of the reason, is a venial sin, albeit extremely slight, as Augustine says in his work De Trinitate [Cf. Sent. ii, D, 24]. Therefore there was some venial sin in the Blessed Virgin. Objection 2. Further, Augustine (Qq. Nov. et Vet. Test. lxxiii on Luke 2:35: "Thy own soul a sword shall pierce") says that the Blessed Virgin "was troubled with wondering doubt at the death of our Lord." But doubt in matters of faith is a sin. Therefore the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all actual sin. Objection 3. Further, Chrysostom (Hom. xlv in Matth.) expounding the text: "Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee," says: "It is clear that they did this from mere vain glory." Again, on John 2:3: "They have no wine," the same Chrysostom says that "she wished to do them a favor, and raise herself in their esteem, by means of her Son: and perchance she succumbed to human frailty, just as did His brethren when they said: 'Manifest Thyself to the world.'" And a little further on he says: "For as yet she did not believe in Him as she ought." Now it is quite clear that all this was sinful. Therefore the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all sin. On the contrary, Augustine says (De Nat. et Grat. xxxvi): "In the matter of sin, it is my wish to exclude absolutely all questions concerning the holy Virgin Mary, on account of the honor due to Christ. For since she conceived and brought forth Him who most certainly was guilty of no sin, we know that an abundance of grace was given her that she might be in every way the conqueror of sin." I answer that, God so prepares and endows those, whom He chooses for some particular office, that they are rendered capable of fulfilling it, according to 2 Corinthians 3:6: "(Who) hath made us fit ministers of the New Testament." Now the Blessed Virgin was chosen by God to be His Mother. Therefore there can be no doubt that God, by His grace, made her worthy of that office, according to the words spoken to her by the angel (Luke 1:30-31): "Thou hast found grace with God: behold thou shalt conceive," etc. But she would not have been worthy to be the Mother of God, if she had ever sinned. First, because the honor of the parents reflects on the child, according to Proverbs 17:6: "The glory of children are their fathers": and consequently, on the other hand, the Mother's shame would have reflected on her Son. Secondly, because of the singular affinity between her and Christ, who took flesh from her: and it is written (2 Corinthians 6:15): "What concord hath Christ with Belial?" Thirdly, because of the singular manner in which the Son of God, who is the "Divine Wisdom" (1 Corinthians 1:24) dwelt in her, not only in her soul but in her womb. And it is written (Wisdom 1:4): "Wisdom will not enter into a malicious soul, nor dwell in a body subject to sins." We must therefore confess simply that the Blessed Virgin committed no actual sin, neither mortal nor venial; so that what is written (Canticles 4:7) is fulfilled: "Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee," etc.

[@macdan22]

@@betterhappensdaily A very long worded response of not proving her being born without sin, not just being born without sin, conceived without sin. We can all agree she LIVED sinless and CHOSE to do Gods Will. This is what made her the superior Eve. The original commenters point is completely valid. Mary being conceived/born without sin would have been a miracle, yet it is mentioned nowhere in the bible. The Roman church would have us believe that Jesus walked all over Judea and into Samaria with his disciples and He wouldn't have told them about the miracle of His mother Mary?? Say you claim He did, now you would have to believe that NONE of the 12 wrote about this amazing information? Please use basic common sense and logic, you'll see how this lie falls apart at the most basic of questioning.

[@Michelle071]

This is where Catholics lose me. This debate seems like a waste of time and unimportant. God chose Mary so that’s all there is to it. Whether she had ever sinned or never sinned.. doesn’t truly matter. God chose her and He can do what He wants and use who ever He wants. He has used imperfect people in salvations past and will continue to.

[@deutschermichel5807]

but the evidence shows that Mary was indeed sinless. Just imagine Jesus, God in the flesh, submitting to a sinfull woman! Because God submitted himself to this very woman as his mother, the Church observes the state of Mary even closer

[@moseywhales9127]

It’s important because God used her in a way nobody else has been or will be used, not to mention she is the ark of the new covenant.

[@danieldiaz7050]

God is sinless and clean why shouldny the woman who carries him for 9months be aswell? We cannot recieve the eucharist while being in sin. Why should marry recieve God and carry him for 9 months while being in sin? You are choosing to not understand and be careful cus holding yourself all high and mighty above others bc you think you know better is also a sin just follow christ and stop throwing verbal stones at everyone

[@Whosphred]

@@deutschermichel5807for him to submit to a sinful woman I think it’s beautiful. It mean he was able to humble himself and gives us an example to follow. If he can submit and wash the feet of disciples why can’t he submit to a sinful woman

[@BensWorkshop]

I hear what you are saying, however as well as being the New Eve, Mary is also the Ark of The New Covenant. If you look at the Ark of the Old Covenant it was so holy it could not be touched by unclean hands.

[@BARDOCK550]

Babies aren't born lacking grace, another thing wrong with Catholic teaching.

[@VoiceOfReason_]

So babies are born already saved????

[@silveriorebelo2920]

of course they do: they lack grace in the sense they lack holiness, which they would have if Adam had not transmitted a corrupted nature to his progeny - and that is why all men need to receive Christ's grace so as to convert to God and become holy

[@VoiceOfReason_]

@@silveriorebelo2920just so we’re clear, just to make sure I understand you….you believe that all babies are born SAVED? All babies are born justified before God?

[@BARDOCK550]

@@VoiceOfReason_ yes sir they are born saved, according to Matthew 19:14. Children we're talking children here.

[@BARDOCK550]

Another verse Mathew 18:3 so yeah Jesus says the kingdom belongs to children and he also says the greatest in heaven are like children, in fact if you do not become like children you will not enter God's kingdom.

[@calebdesjardins616]

There’s a suspicious lack of scripture for anything remotely close to Mary being sinless. That’s a big claim for us to just imply with no scripture saying it. She’s blessed. Yes. This is where Protestants have issues. A Catholic will say of course we don’t worship Mary!! We venerate her! But yet you’re praying through her You’re saying she’s sinless Which might as well say she’s divine and not in need of a savior if she’s sinless. I’m sorry you completely lose me with this one. Jesus was sinless, Mary was not. Jesus was divine, Mary was not. Jesus is our mediator, Mary is not. I have no problem asking Mary to intercede for us, but this takes things way too far imo

[@betterhappensdaily]

Here is aquinas on this topic: Article 4. Whether by being sanctified in the womb the Blessed Virgin was preserved from all actual sin? Objection 1. It would seem that by being sanctified in the womb the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all actual sin. For, as we have already stated (Article 3), after her first sanctification the fomes remained in the Virgin. Now the motion of the fomes, even if it precede the act of the reason, is a venial sin, albeit extremely slight, as Augustine says in his work De Trinitate [Cf. Sent. ii, D, 24]. Therefore there was some venial sin in the Blessed Virgin. Objection 2. Further, Augustine (Qq. Nov. et Vet. Test. lxxiii on Luke 2:35: "Thy own soul a sword shall pierce") says that the Blessed Virgin "was troubled with wondering doubt at the death of our Lord." But doubt in matters of faith is a sin. Therefore the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all actual sin. Objection 3. Further, Chrysostom (Hom. xlv in Matth.) expounding the text: "Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee," says: "It is clear that they did this from mere vain glory." Again, on John 2:3: "They have no wine," the same Chrysostom says that "she wished to do them a favor, and raise herself in their esteem, by means of her Son: and perchance she succumbed to human frailty, just as did His brethren when they said: 'Manifest Thyself to the world.'" And a little further on he says: "For as yet she did not believe in Him as she ought." Now it is quite clear that all this was sinful. Therefore the Blessed Virgin was not preserved from all sin. On the contrary, Augustine says (De Nat. et Grat. xxxvi): "In the matter of sin, it is my wish to exclude absolutely all questions concerning the holy Virgin Mary, on account of the honor due to Christ. For since she conceived and brought forth Him who most certainly was guilty of no sin, we know that an abundance of grace was given her that she might be in every way the conqueror of sin." I answer that, God so prepares and endows those, whom He chooses for some particular office, that they are rendered capable of fulfilling it, according to 2 Corinthians 3:6: "(Who) hath made us fit ministers of the New Testament." Now the Blessed Virgin was chosen by God to be His Mother. Therefore there can be no doubt that God, by His grace, made her worthy of that office, according to the words spoken to her by the angel (Luke 1:30-31): "Thou hast found grace with God: behold thou shalt conceive," etc. But she would not have been worthy to be the Mother of God, if she had ever sinned. First, because the honor of the parents reflects on the child, according to Proverbs 17:6: "The glory of children are their fathers": and consequently, on the other hand, the Mother's shame would have reflected on her Son. Secondly, because of the singular affinity between her and Christ, who took flesh from her: and it is written (2 Corinthians 6:15): "What concord hath Christ with Belial?" Thirdly, because of the singular manner in which the Son of God, who is the "Divine Wisdom" (1 Corinthians 1:24) dwelt in her, not only in her soul but in her womb. And it is written (Wisdom 1:4): "Wisdom will not enter into a malicious soul, nor dwell in a body subject to sins." We must therefore confess simply that the Blessed Virgin committed no actual sin, neither mortal nor venial; so that what is written (Canticles 4:7) is fulfilled: "Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee," etc.

[@calebdesjardins616]

@@betterhappensdaily Yea none of that is a scriptural argumentation. There are major leaps to say she had no sin. Blessed yes, favored yes. And found grace yes. But to say she had no sin is to call her divine and that is blasphemy. I honor Mary the way I would honor any major saint who lived a holy life and was used by God in miraculous ways. But that doesn’t make them without sin. Not only is there no passage of scripture saying Mary is worthy of worship or divine or sinless. There’s even a passage in Luke 11:27-28 where someone tried to make the connection and bless Mary, and immediately Jesus said not to. That would’ve been a perfect moment for his reaction to be in agreement or to affirm it. Or to mention she’s sinless. Or how about ALL of Paul’s writings, why would such a huge core doctrine just not even remotely exist in any of the New Testament. Even if you’re not SOLa scriptura, you still I’d assume believe that councils were supposed to affirm scripture and interpret it. Not add a very controversial and contradictory doctrine.

[@killianmiller6107]

Wtf “to call her without sin is to call her divine” now that’s a leap in logic. The saints in heaven, we ought to say, are without sin, that doesn’t make them divine (though they do partake in the divine nature). Adam and Eve were created without sin originally, but they weren’t gods.

[@calebdesjardins616]

@@killianmiller6107 So before Adam and Eve sinned, were they in need of a savior and reconciliation? I think your answer to this speaks to a fundamental difference in what the Gospel is and why Jesus had to come and die in the first place. The redemption plan of man to God is not just a list of rules and traditions passed down, there was a reason for it. To reconcile mankind back to God. Sin entered into the world by one man (Adam) so then by one Jesus Christ sin would be defeated. If you’re saying Mary is like Adam and Eve before they sinned and before sin entered into the world then you’re saying that she isn’t in need of a savior to die for her sins….which is extremely suspect and not biblical in any way. Same for the saints that are already redeemed and in heaven and reconciled without sin. You can’t point to a human that was used by God and compare her sinfulness to mankind before sin entered the world or mankind after they’re glorified, unless there’s atleast some scripture to back that up. I need more than tradition to believe that a human never sinned or had sin.

[@killianmiller6107]

That kind of dodges the point, you said that to be without sin was to be divine, which simply does not follow. Here’s the thing: when we defined the dogma of the immaculate conception in Ineffibalis Deus, it was very careful to include the phrase “in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the savior of the human race.” If Jesus did not finish what he came here to do, dying and rising from the dead, Mary would not have been saved from falling into sin. The privilege she had was basically receiving the grace of the cross before it even happened. We are all too aware that Mary rejoices in God her savior. But she is also “full of grace.” Grace is what helps us to not sin. To be full of grace means being fully at enmity with sin. She was the mother of the son who has enmity with death, the serpent’s seed; this woman herself is said to have enmity with the serpent. How else would you interpret the first gospel in Genesis 3? Back to my original point, the reason I brought up saints in heaven and the first parents was to show that creatures can be sinless without being divine (because you erroneously thought calling Mary sinless was giving her a divine attribute) and you somehow made this into a different issue where it’s improper to say God created a sinless person after the fall and before the judgment. I have to ask what is so objectionable about the concept of Jesus’s mother being preserved from all sin? Also please have more respect for Mary, she wasn’t just “a human who was used.”

[@mryesyes]

How do you come up with this nonsense if mary died before she received the grace she would have gone to hell? Where do you get this absolute nonsense from except from the pit of hell? How does a child born without sin and hasn't sinned go to hell??? Orthodox doesn't believe in original sin. We believe we inherit sin through the world.

[@atgred]

Born without “original” sin? And where did you get that from? “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” ‭‭Psalm‬ ‭51‬:‭5‬ 1st century Origen of Alexandria in his commentary In Rom. R,501. "THE CHURCH HAS RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES the custom of administering baptism EVEN TO CHILDREN. For those to whom the divine mysteries were entrusted knew very well that they all carry the stain of original sin, which must be washed away by water and the spirit "

[@mryesyes]

@@atgred his mother conceived him in sin not he had sin read it again where do you see this in that statement are all babies that are still born going to hell according to the catholic church wake up stop this nonsense at once.

[@desmondhutchinson6095]

Bro, what is that rhetoric? Did you listen to the catholic view of original sin? He reads it to you in the video... I'll quote it quickly here: (CCC 405) Although it is proper to each individual, *original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants*. It is a *deprivation of original holiness and justice*, but human nature has not been totally corrupted ... Ironically, if you deny that Mary didn't receive the grace of God prior to her death, and you believe she went to heaven, then you're literally a pelagian... Which is condemned as a doctrine of a heretic

[@desmondhutchinson6095]

@@mryesyes Regarding babies going to hell. Strictly speaking a child who hasn't committed any sin and dies doesn't experience any punishment for their sins, but if they don't receive any grace they don't go to heaven. This is why Limbo is a theological opinion held by Fathers common to us (Like Gregory Nanzianzen). However, the catholic church is aware of your difficulty regarding these unbaptized infants. God is ultimately able to grant these children grace in an extraordinary manner, and so it is not dogmatic that this children won't be in heaven.

[@kennynoNope]

Hey catholic how is Vatican 2 not heretical? You worship the same god that Muslim do?

[@joshie3336]

They worship the same God, that doesnt mean they know who he is

[@kennynoNope]

@@joshie3336 do you know anything about Islam? Please define the true God of Christianity than define the devil of Islam and explain How it is the same “god”

[@killianmiller6107]

One question for you is do you agree with anything Muslims claim, or are they 100% contrary? They can be oriented toward the true God as suggested by their monotheism, as we say “they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day,” but of course they exhibit many errors in denying the Trinity etc. so naturally they aren’t Christians. It’s the “same god” in spite of their errors, not because of them.

[@kennynoNope]

@@killianmiller6107 it’s the same god? Define the true God please

[@kennynoNope]

@@killianmiller6107 please define who God is the true God

[@andrewhenderson6544]

Catholics think Mary is sinless? Lol

[@socialsmigs1626]

You don't? Lol

[@vlqn]

Luke 1:28 DRA “And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.” the word for “grace” here in the greek is “kecharitōmenē” and “charitō” is a type of grace only spoken of in ephesians 1 when someone becomes SINLESS after they accept Christ. and if you’re full of grace that leaves no room for sin, look at John 1:14 DRA “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.” yes this verse is talking about Jesus but as you see if someone is full of grace there is no room for sin.

[@ErwinMager]

We're brothers. Don't fall for division.