DOCKSIDE IS GONE!

[@WarsWorth]

A Rocco player finally won a tournament and the RC took that personally

[@cedhtv]

hahahaha! That is funny.

[@mr.c5681]

rip yuled lotus

[@walterppk1989]

yooooou'led low tus

[@Spirited_skiing]

Soulja boy no longer cranking it :-//////

[@zweis]

@@mr.c5681 this made me laugh, thank you 😂

[@Doormau5719]

They banned dockside! Gasp They banned jeweled lotus! Double gasp They banned mana crypt! Triple gasp! They banned Nadu! .... [Everyone liked that]

[@89qwyg9yqa34t]

If you even suggest banning Cradle, you're met with the largest army of the most angry **insert people who bought Gaea's Cradle for $1000 here** you've ever seen in your life.

[@Sandovian]

Cradle decks aren't meta anyway

[@Alan-wp9yn]

@@Sandovian especially in a world where bowmaster exists

[@Sandovian]

@@Alan-wp9yn fax lol. Rip Chulane

[@NumbSkull90]

A friens bought Jeweled Lotus last week. A friend played Jeweled Lotus over the week-end. A friend now removes Jeweled lotusout of his deck trying not to think about the 100$ spent.....

[@Bryan-T]

Anyone who spends 100 dollars on cardboard is a fool.

[@tokertalk9648]

@@Bryan-T nobody ever accused MTG players of being smart with their money

[@XZumex]

@@Bryan-T yeah but at least they own the cards, not like a service like mtgo or arena were its digital.

[@DoubleOhSilver]

I bought a realistic proxy of the full art command masters for $4

[@davidarbour2683]

@@DoubleOhSilver and you cant play it on tournement

[@Lazydino59]

RC really saw the cEDH rules committee starting to form and were like “ah shucks guess we got to get back to regulating the format again before we get fired”

[@lrom5445]

Maybe. They've said though that they try to keen bans to an absolute minimum. They aren't trying to regulate like wotc. If stuff is off, the playgroup should usually do it.

[@Carriantor]

Given that commander is still not an officially supported competitive format by WotC , these bans can be side stepped by any event organizer. That is why it is so important to understand the nuances of each event’s set of rules and they are diverse enough to impact play and rule interpretation.

[@maxmazza2987]

See, I think the RC *wants* a separation. Like, what other bans could have pushed the separation of cEDH and EDH more effectively than this? CEDH players are also the main group that really crunches numbers and actively advocates for ban list changes (ie, asking the RC to actually do their JOB). They'd rather ban cards based off of their own personal feelings and unban them if they can profit off of them (like with Servant). Absolutely awful

[@khub5660]

@@maxmazza2987 except most TOs for cEDH align themselves with the banlist that is published by WoTC via the RC. If they wanted to create a separation, they could've done so. But they did not

[@ronburgundy5730]

So livid. You know The One Ring ban will be coming within the next year if not sooner. The format was made to play cards you could not play in other formats only to get banned out of it. You couldn't write a better joke if you tried.

[@Magiccircle100]

Sheldon would have never let this happen. RC knows that jeweled lotus and mana crypt has been used to sell packs for years now, good job RC you let wizards bait us into buying packs for higher power decks and now you're bending the knee so they can make parallel effects and charge us more.

[@BattleAxeRX]

Wizards made you do it.

[@27noetic]

Not touching Thassa’s Oracle or Demonic Consultation over what they actually banned is such a weird choice

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

How ? Those are specifically for CEDH!

[@27noetic]

@@Arctanis-vt3hl they’re explicitly not though. It’s up to the group you’re playing with to discuss power level of how you want the game to be. The same with using Mana Crypt or Dockside. I think the more unfun play patterns involve Thassa/Consult wins over the other two.

[@mattiavenier3898]

What really upsets me isn't even that I bought my one and only mana crypt less than a month ago and haven't even had the chance to play the deck I have put it in yet, but that they have banned these all at once, what a kick in the nuts. should have sold all my docksides instead of keeping 2 and the 5 copies of jeweled lotus are going to be a nice bookmarks I suppose ...

[@cedhtv]

haha yeah I am happy I sold my dockside. But My mana crypts is going to be sad. You know magic isen't suposed to be a Stock market in my opinion.

[@khub5660]

Play them anyway. Part of the commander identity is being able to do absurd things at equally absurd rates. If people give you shit for utilizing Rule 0, they can get bent.

[@mattiavenier3898]

​@@cedhtvyeah totally agree it shouldn't be a stock market, I have bought all my cards for playing and recently sold some of my collection and reduced the number of decks in my possession as due to time, I wasn't able to play my decks frequently and didn't want the cards to collect dust, but when over the years you try to improve your decks and get them to a more competitive level it hurts when all your efforts and sacrifices you have done to invest in a hobby are wiped away like that, but hey this is how it goes and quite frankly excited to see how we will adapt our decks with these changes and how the game will shape around this going forward :)

[@epazote4204]

@@cedhtv this is why I’ll never stop promoting proxies. I can buy 2 full cedh decks from any number of reliable proxy printing companies with any art I want for like $150 and my money is going to an independent small business instead of Hasbro

[@gregory3499]

Keep it in your deck bro. Ignore this stupid and nonsensical ban announcement

[@whysospicy6750]

I love how people were saying ban Rhystic Study to speed up the meta and the rules committee just said "hold my beer"

[@CyrusdVulture]

Rules Committee isn't WotC.

[@_Axel_G_]

Pretty much like the peter Griffin and the horse situation

[@Caliban_80]

This feels like a line in the sand for cEDH to become a separate format.

[@AbsolutelyGeek]

I agree, that said the format will likely fragment as multiple people have different ideas about how to regulate it, in my country we had like 3 variants of duel commander, now only one survives, but it took years to consolidate. It's a shame to be honest, I can understand Nadu, but the others are just cards for cedh that is a format where powerful stuff is used. To be honest without fast mana, the variety of cedh will be reduced significantly as all the expensive commanders will become harder to play... Two and Three cmc commanders will get stronger without lotus, higher cmc ones will vanish pretty much. Plus if we want to talk about money, Lion's Eye diamond + Breech are untouched by the ban and Dockside costs what 1/5th of diamond in real money?

[@ericweis9771]

U nailed it

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

You can create a new format, but cEDH will continue existing as long as some people want to push EDH to its limits.

[@BingeThinker1814]

Feel free to make one, but convincing EDH players to adopt your list rather than the EDH list might be a hard sell. Good luck finding players

[@שחרשגב-מ4ק]

My main problem with the banlist is the it is scary to think where do they stop. Why not ban rhystic and mystics? Why not all the tutors? Where do you draw the lines of bans?

[@cedhtv]

This is a really good point. This ban feels strange. Like why not stop at mana crypt. Like why not ban Sol Ring.

[@matthewmckenna2476]

​@@cedhtvbecause they can't make precons illegal

[@khub5660]

​@cedhtv they explained that banning Sol Ring is too big of an identity shift (as if banning Crypt and Jeweled Lotus aren't already). This is just the latest of the RC being the RC. Hypocrites at best and blatantly showing they dont care for the format at their worst. This sadly looks to be a mix of both

[@sebastianrodriguez9451]

@@matthewmckenna2476 MY PRECON THAT HAS A DOCKSIDE, IS IN FACT ILLEGAL NOW

[@Rundvelt]

@@cedhtv Because it's everywhere, this ban isn't for the game, it's to allow for new chase cards that are "like" it to be printed in future sets.

[@peteryankowsky]

Forget the ban news, the cEDH TV announcement is incredible data! Very excited to see what comes of this as the sample size increases.

[@mcandrolallendelapena6375]

My biggest gripe about this ban is that Blue was basically untouched while 50% of the reason why you'd want to be in Red is banned. Rakdos and Gruul are now relegated to shit-tier and it makes Boros even worse than it already is now with these bans(strictly talking about the 2 color combinations only), all the while Blue still gets to enjoy Rhystic/Remora. And oh, who could forget Thassa's Oracle???? If the RC were looking at it at a perspective as to which cards are explosive for casual play, then yes it makes sense (but less so for Dockside as it's explosiveness depends on the powerlevel of the pod). However, in a casual setting, being able to draw 2-3 extra cards off of a Rhystic/Remora sets you up for explosive turns down the line. So, why was blue untouched??? I can already hear people saying "well, you can play around a Rhystic/Remora by paying the 1 or not feeding the fish". Well sure, while you also allow the blue player to get ahead of his/her gameplan by being able to play his cards without any drawbacks. Losing Crypt will hurt, as virtually almost all cEDH decks run the card, JLo less so. But banning Dockside significantly nerfs non-blue decks in the format. Nadu can go away from the format. F*** that Bird!

[@AlphaCitizen]

Precisely what I've been saying on reddit. Thanks for typing it out 😅

[@WorldofSoupS]

I would be less mad if they just straight up said it was a cedh ban. Saying this was to "slow down casual games" is such a bs reason when they said before rule 0 should be the power balancing rule for casual edh.

[@project_swift]

Nah, I saw it happen when Jeweled Lotus was released. We had a bunch of casuals open Jeweled Lotus and add it to their deck because it was a new card. If they were lucky to get it in their opening hand and powered out their 6 mana commander in a game with little to no interaction. Then that player just wins. I hate Jeweled Lotus. But I can understand the casual reasoning.

[@sallymas625]

@@project_swiftwhat casual commander just “wins” after cast?

[@andrewspears8891]

Either that or they get an insurmountable advantage, being able to get their commander out well ahead of curve. I don't recall losing often after getting my six drop commander down turn 3 simply because he'd accumulate that much of an advantage (kodama & togo, landfall triggers to make tokens to play more lands).

[@89qwyg9yqa34t]

Discussions about banning are impossible peoples people get extremely upset the instant you have an opinion on the topic.

[@project_swift]

@@sallymas625 What Andrew said 👍

[@allbadmanners]

Goodbye fast games, hello stax meta.

[@Naren25]

I don't think it necessarily goes that way. Rog Si is still real fast for example

[@B1gBingus]

I’ll admit I was vehemently against a cEDH RC, but after this, I’m entirely open to it

[@truniq6422]

We didn't want a separate ban list and we laughed at the RC. Now we're fucked.

[@LukeSkywalker-pg9ki]

Not quite. We didn’t want to be gaslit by an up-jumped TO associating with white supremacists and degrading women forcing a stupid ban list from left field. Folks seem to be ok with the idea of a cedh specific ban list in general.

[@lostman99]

I want to say i'm super impressed with you getting as close as you do to words you don't knwo in your non-native langue. Super impressed keep up the good work!!!!

[@cedhtv]

Thank you .... I ... guess

[@maxmazza2987]

Sol Ring (a card not designed with commander in mind and stronger than Jeweled Lotus AND an auto-include in 99.99% of decks) didn't get banned, but Jeweled Lotus, a card only playable outside of commander in an incredibly specific single legacy deck and made specifically FOR commander got banned. The lack of internal logic is real.

[@s.dalner7245]

It's very simple - banning Sol Ring would make just about every precon illegal right out of the box. Defeating the fundamental point of those products. It's not a balancing issue, or even a "format identity" issue. It's a logistics issue.

[@mufasafalldown8401]

They directly explained why they did not ban Sol Ring.

[@s.dalner7245]

@@mufasafalldown8401 They gave an explanation they were comfortable telling the public. Doesn't mean it's the only or even the most important explanation. Also, as soon as we talk about the "identity" of the format, we start to get real murky as it enters very subjective territory.

[@mufasafalldown8401]

@@s.dalner7245 there was nothing cryptic about it. They said that Sol Ring fits their own criteria for being banned but they are not comfortable doing so because it is "iconic". Meaning it's in every single precon. They also correctly stated that removing some of the other fast mana makes sol ring more acceptable. Edit: i wasnt arguing with you I was letting the OP know that they addressed his points pretty clearly.

[@Foofoothegoon]

Eh, making fast mana rarer makes Sol Ring more problematic IMO, not less. Now it's more likely that the Sol Ring start will be a skewed start in one player's favour.

[@alexmusselman7090]

As I said in the comments of ComedIan's video: This is the most effective proverbial middle finger the rules committe couldve possibly given the cedh community today.

[@testthewest123]

Why?

[@shadow-.-9764]

@@testthewest123 they want to slow the game down, which is not what cedh wants. while casual its fine, in cedh you want to win fast

[@Carriantor]

More like the creation of a dividing line that has already existed between casual and competitive. I do expect cEDH to start separating away from Commander. The only question is whether Wizards is going to start their own supported competitive format.

[@xZyrux]

@@shadow-.-9764 If I understand correctly, cEDH just wants to play the strongest possible commander decks. Ofcourse the faster the deck is, usually the more stronger. But in the end its about playing the best deck, not the fastest.

[@shadow-.-9764]

@@xZyrux the best are the fastest, rogh/sci for example.

[@VeilofDeathMTG]

Drastically change is an understatement :D

[@cedhtv]

Yeah. I should have screamed out of my mind. I still kinda am. But I have to do it quite or the neighbors will be mad at me.

[@VeilofDeathMTG]

@@cedhtv I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream moments here :D

[@__-be1gk]

God forbid Red do ANYTHING

[@NaviTheMD]

RIP red commander cEDH

[@1uplink169]

Get more creative. I run a Mogis control deck that creates permanent global effects and plays like the Ghanti deck. Instead of having 3 cards that auto turbo boost you, you have to figure out other ways to ramp out cards other then expensive mana rocks etc. Etali for example, when attack makes each player exile the top card of their library, and I get to play them for free.

[@NaviTheMD]

@@1uplink169 i said red commanders and cEDH. Mogis and Etali are neither of those. This almost kills Godo, Slicer or magda as tier decks

[@mentosmuncher]

M​@@NaviTheMD I've already started dismantling Godo and putting the parts into my other 6 decks

[@metalnerd0903]

I dont think cedh is dead but i think a lot of bad things come from this. The discrepancy between 1st and 4th seat is gonna kncrease by a lot, red decks are so much worse, and certain decks are totally unplayable. I think personally this is the time to separate formats and have people who actually play cedh to make a banlist

[@cedhtv]

Your not alone to say this.

[@project_swift]

I personally disagree. I think all of these bans are healthy for cEDH 👍

[@lapsehc]

@@project_swift they just banned 3 staples of the format. without these staples the format is just not the same. games will be a lot more one sided.

[@metalnerd0903]

@@project_swift I think that Dockside is arguable to being ok to ban same with JLo, but mana crypt is too much imo

[@PensFan96]

Godo in shambles 🙃

[@gabes.1882]

Time for cedh to officially declare itself as it's own format with its own banlist.

[@nacpp1234]

this should become a movement and all cedh players should support it to flick the finger at wizards

[@jamesk3612]

Stupid idea. The whole point of cedh is to push edh to its limit. If you want a new format then make a new format, but, by definition, CEDH will always be a part of EDH

[@JootBird]

@@jamesk3612lmao okay boomer

[@JaylinDweller]

@@jamesk3612 Winnie Hut CEDH could be a new format

[@antoinesavard-sevigny3442]

Cedh IS EDH. what would you call the absolute best game of your new format, if not cedh, and what would be casual cedh? 😅

[@uchin1989]

Two formats: EDH casual CEDH period If this occurs, then EDH surely gets more bans, like free counters spells. All card that get a lot of power without any cost o a reduccion cost like FoN, deflecting swap etx

[@Dragetsuyatamiki]

I think cedhtv and someone from the spike feeders should be considered when cedh splinters into its own rule committee

[@kalamander8563]

I thought Jim from Spike Feeders was in the rules committee?

[@Dragetsuyatamiki]

Playing with power would be another could member to add

[@Dragetsuyatamiki]

@@kalamander8563 i believe so but i think theres a voting system as well, meaning if its a 4/2 split his representation for cedh wont mean shit. Because the cag is specifically for fair gameplay not competitive

[@cedhtv]

No he is on the advisory group.

[@cedhtv]

haha thank you for that.

[@ВасяПупкин-ш3ф4у]

We need 2 banlists...

[@williamsimkulet7832]

Nadu is good! The other 3... are inflammatory. That said, I always liked Dockside's design, even if the execution was bad. I wouldn't mind, say, a correctly costed Dockside that gives you 0/1 plants = opponent's creatures or a black dockside that lets you mill = to the number of cards in opponent's graveyard, etc. Even tapped treasures on an appropriately costed Dockside would have been less obscene.

[@TheMattmatic]

Dockside should enter with a finality counter, so it can't be flickered/reanimated. It would still be incredibly strong but not as abusable.

[@otterfire4712]

​@@TheMattmaticpretty sure you can still flicker a creature with a finality counter

[@TheMattmatic]

@@otterfire4712 Oh, right. I thought it worked like unearth, which is what I would like to see - "If it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead". That's what the evoke elementals should have had IMO, then Grief and Fury could have stayed legal in Modern too.

[@Strength10hurts]

On the communication part: WOTC to RC: 'What about this card?' Shows Jeweled Lotus. RC members: 'Why would you do this? please, PLEASE do not print this card' WOTC: Hits the go button on the printers. True story...

[@cedhtv]

Yeah that is kinda how it happend. WOTC: We love your feedback RC thank you. RC: BAN! WOTC: ..... emmmm

[@andreccodo]

​@@cedhtv other than that, it's pretty usual to see cards getting banned in the format they were made to, it just feels weird to see that happening in commander because it's so rare to see bannings for the format in the first place

[@Brassgnat]

Truly. Just despicable. Anyone involved with the RC I will now just see in disgust. CEDH for sure needs its own ban list

[@pandogrover4120]

Glad that you started to create new data to understand better the cards that we are playing. Personaly I'm very upset by the bannings, and for now I will be focusing on another stuff to avoid my frustration goes out of control Ps. I really enjoy watching your videos, they are what the cedh community needs: an objective point of view about this lovely format combined with awesome games!!!

[@aquablue3dsi]

MY HEART MONS. MY HEART!!!!!!!

[@JamBalaya970]

Honestly.. thinking on it. This is the time when we really need the voices of our community(mons :D!!!) to help speak for us. WE desperately need cedh to be separated from regular edh banlists.

[@andrewspears8891]

But then it would no longer be competitive EDH. It would be a completely different format rather than competitively playing by the EDH rules.

[@OlgaZuccati]

@@andrewspears8891 and maybe that's okay?

[@XDunklerX]

F this. I won't be using real cards anymore, I just lost like 2k on that ban alone haha and that leaves a precedent that they may ban cards used in cEDH so I will try to unload my stapples before someone in the RC wakes up on the incorrect side of the bed

[@cedhtv]

haha yeah I am happy I sold my dockside. But My mana crypts is going to be sad. You know magic isen't suposed to be a Stock market in my opinion.

[@Greatestnesss]

I stopped buying real cards a while ago. I refuse to pay 100$ for a card and in a few months it tanks to nothing. No thanks. All cards are only worth a dollar to me now.... its just a card.

[@Rundvelt]

@@cedhtv We get it's not an investment, but it is a TCG. Which means trading. If the cards constantly shift value, why bother engaging with it?

[@henkdachief]

scummy behaviour dont justify it

[@rsqualo]

@@cedhtv i didnt buy my mc, jlo or dockside last week for investment. I bought those cards for playing CEDH as I was a firm believer of playing cards u actually own and I love owning my collection. Now I have learned my lesson. I will not be buying any more cards from WOTC and proxy whatever is expensive just to keep playing the format I play the most. WOTC lost a customer.

[@vakuzar]

Now I want a cEDH rules committee twice as bad.

[@xaerusblade7854]

nah, cedh should just adapt.

[@Sandovian]

0x2=0

[@keltic0cross]

​@xaerusblade7854 Yeah it should, by creating it's own RC

[@MeowHoots]

Id rather a new format and then have the option for cedh with this trash changes​@@xaerusblade7854

[@AliB.-kd7mt]

@@xaerusblade7854 imagine being quartered then castrated and someone says “just adapt brah”. Rip Korvold my beloved.

[@jaydonthewarrior636]

This is a power-level ban, period. Causal players don't, and shouldn't play these cards. If they are, that's their choice, and it's something that should be discussed with the other players in their friend group. This ban targets cEDH, but its not a ban that I think cEDH players wanted in spite of this.

[@cedhtv]

I totally agree. This is why I am still suprised about all of this. The only actaull Casual ban here is Nadu.

[@simonandersen7942]

These bans are meant to kill cEDH

[@BlueGriffin20]

Honestly casual players don’t play these card (besides nadu) because they are $80 to $100 or more. Would it be great to have, sure, but casual players usually don’t shell out that much unless it’s a key piece to their deck, not generic rock/ramp.

[@snakeman4games383]

Okay but hear it out from a casual Friday night game store player. You don’t get to have rule zero conversations all the time and especially with people who you’ll probably never play against again. I think a ban list should reflect the average player’s intentions. If people want to decide to play cards far too broken for the average player, then that’s all good. These cEDH people can play in their own pod. But you’re always going to have that one person who pulls up to a game store with a “casual” deck but then has stones worth a hundred+ dollars apiece. And that sucks playing against that.

[@jaydonthewarrior636]

@@snakeman4games383 I can understand this argument, and have seen it before, but few things. A. Ironically these bans happened in the same post that announced an App to help people with the rule zero conversation, which is more ironic then anything. B. there is such a thing as reputation. People who do this will build up a negative reputation, and people will stop playing with them, or play better decks against them.

[@jonathanvogels1690]

Yeah hi, korvold player here. This ban announcement almost made me cry. I didn't want the format split before. But now i will vote for it, should the question come up.

[@Delightfull-Delusions]

Finally, took long enough. Fucking OP cards.

[@Delightfull-Delusions]

After letting it sit a few minutes, i think the lotus ban isnt that nessecary expect to prevent turn 1 kills. But I really enjoy the ban of docside, because it forced anyone to play it when plitting into red because it is just a to good card. I would love to see a bit creativity for once, even tho thats not actually what cEDH means, but im tired of seeiung lists build only to win with docside.

[@juand9989]

Amazing data work man, love your approach to the game. Keep it up :)

[@cedhtv]

Thank you. Yeah I was planning on showcasing it once I got 200 games atleast but it came good in hand for this.

[@TTXFLR6]

Mono color decks (and everything commander centric) took a huge hit, while value engines such as rhystic study and cards that prevent archetypes from existing (OBM) are still there. Idk in which world their bans promote diversity as stated in their document.

[@Toothbresh]

Creating a point-buy or budget system for Commander (EDH) deck-building can be a great way to balance the power level of decks while still allowing players to include strong cards. Here’s a breakdown of how you might design such a system: 1. Define Point Categories The first step is to assign point values to cards based on their power level. You can create several point tiers to categorize cards and set a cap for the total points allowed in a deck. Here’s an example of how the point tiers might work: 1 Point: Utility cards, weaker cards, and most basic lands. 2-3 Points: Moderately powerful cards, common staples in Commander. 4-5 Points: Strong staples, highly synergistic cards. 6-10 Points: Powerful win-cons, extremely potent cards, infinite combo pieces. 15+ Points: Game-breaking or oppressive cards, cards that are frequently banned or discussed for bans. 2. Set a Point Cap Each deck can have a maximum of 100 points (this number can be adjusted as you see fit). This cap includes the Commander itself, which should also be assigned a point value based on its strength and impact on the game. Example: If a deck is built around Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, she might be assigned 8-10 points, leaving 90-92 points to spend on the remaining 99 cards. 3. Assign Point Values to Cards The next step is to determine the point values for individual cards. You can assign values based on several factors: Card Efficiency: Cards that offer a lot of value for a low mana cost should be assigned more points (e.g., Sol Ring might cost 6 points, Mana Crypt 10). Synergy & Combos: Cards that enable or complete infinite combos should cost more points (e.g., Dockside Extortionist might cost 8 points, Food Chain could cost 9 points). Game Impact: Cards that have an immediate or overwhelming effect on the game should have high point values (e.g., Cyclonic Rift might cost 10 points). Meta Considerations: Cards that are commonly used in competitive EDH (cEDH) might have higher point values to prevent them from overwhelming the format (e.g., Thassa's Oracle 10 points). Here are some example point assignments for popular cards: Card Name Point Value Sol Ring 6 Cyclonic Rift 10 Rhystic Study 8 Arcane Signet 3 Dockside Extortionist 9 Command Tower 2 Force of Will 9 Birds of Paradise 2 Eternal Witness 3 Smothering Tithe 9 Thassa's Oracle 10 Lightning Greaves 4 Demonic Tutor 7 Mana Crypt 10 4. Balancing the Commander The Commander should also contribute to the point cap, as some Commanders have stronger effects or synergies than others. More competitive Commanders should have higher point values, which forces players to balance the strength of the Commander with the rest of the deck. For example: Tymna the Weaver (very competitive) might cost 10 points. Omnath, Locus of Creation could be 8 points due to his ability to generate massive value. Ezuri, Claw of Progress might cost 5 points as a solid but not oppressive Commander. 5. Determine Point Distribution per Color If you want to create more nuance, you can tweak the point values based on the color of the deck. For example, mono-color decks could get a discount since they are more restricted, while five-color decks might face a slight penalty. 6. Allow for Adjustments Over Time As the metagame evolves and new cards are printed, you’ll need to revisit and adjust point values. Consider community input, your own playgroup's experiences, and popular Commander formats for guidance. This also allows you to address power creep and other balance issues. 7. Testing and Refining the System Playtesting is crucial for fine-tuning the system. Here’s what you can do: Build a few decks using the point system to see how the distribution feels. Do some decks feel too strong or too weak? Invite feedback from your playgroup. Let other players try the system and suggest changes to the point values. Consider how different archetypes are affected. Does this system unfairly punish certain archetypes, like control, combo, or tribal decks? Make sure each archetype can compete fairly. Example of a 100-Point Deck Let’s say you’re building a Commander deck around Korvold, Fae-Cursed King (9 points). You’ll have 91 points left to spend. Here’s a possible breakdown: Sol Ring (6 points) Smothering Tithe (9 points) Skullclamp (4 points) Crucible of Worlds (5 points) Arcane Signet (3 points) Tireless Tracker (4 points) Avenger of Zendikar (7 points) Mana Crypt (10 points) the 25 remaining cards are 1-2 points each. Total = 100 points. Final Thoughts This system encourages strategic deck-building, as players must balance powerful cards with lower-cost staples. It also helps curb the use of oppressive or broken combos while still allowing for powerful plays within a balanced framework. These numbers are purely for the example, not what I actually think they should be, and maybe the number isn't 100, but you kinda see what I'm getting at?

[@invisiblediscos9412]

I doubt many will follow the ban. Especially with the monetary value associated. Infact this could be a great opportunity to diverge and just play whatever

[@AreJay2006]

I'm strictly proxying at this point, cEDH and regular commander. I was already close and this banwave did it for me. No fucking chance I'm buying expensive cards to have them banned when theres TONS of other cards that could be or should be banned as well.

[@khub5660]

My groups aren't. Hell, we even allow the entire banlist to be played at our tables. What's the point of playing EDH when you can't carry out the cornerstone marketing strategy of it: doing absurd things

[@dimitriid]

Remember that is not *just* the high cost of the banned cards but the *ASTRONOMICAL* cost of finding suitable replacements for a cedh deck: now you have *no chance* without spending big on Mox Diamond, Grim Monolith, Gaia's Cradle, etc. Basically this either makes the format proxy only or just for rich people. My guess is that this will definitively resurrect the cedh rules committee in a hurry specially because of Dockside.

[@tougaardable]

​@@dimitriidtotally agree, this ban is so lopsided. They should have been consistent and banned a lot more cards.

[@jonathanmcmahon9138]

Great summary Mons. Thanks for the video

[@cedhtv]

Your welcome!

[@Rundvelt]

The real issue is that Wizards has sent a strong message to players that cards will not have any value. In a TCG. This will have a lot of people going "I'm gonna buy proxies." I've already put an order in. I'm not engaging with Wizards anymore, just going to pirate their game (and I'm a whale).

[@JessenMurillo-ju5np]

Exactly. I’m selling my collection, buying a motorcycle and fancy guitars, and if I find a new deck I want to play, I’m printing it myself. Call me a Dockside extortionist, cause it’s turning me into a pirate. Been playing since 94, but this is the straw.

[@henkdachief]

bro cry more

[@Rundvelt]

@@henkdachief I'm not crying, I'm saying I'm no longer feeding them cash. :D

[@henkdachief]

@@Rundvelt you are coping about your scummy behaviour, just stop playing instead of crying in the comments and pirating the cards get it

[@tokertalk9648]

@@henkdachief ROFL since when was not feeding a garbage company all of your cash considered 'scummy behavior' little fella?

[@isiahsmith673]

you can tell my boy is STRESSED 🤣

[@GravePacked]

While I'm sad this is going to make a lot of fringe cedh decks unplayable, I am excited to see what new brews come out of this announcement. Maybe I'm lucky but my local meta has a good handle on casual vs high power/cedh. Those cards never showed up in my casual games so this feels unnecessary to me but maybe I'm in the minority.

[@JaylinDweller]

new life to the format im all for it

[@RagingPoo]

Our casual meta is exactly the same. None of these cards along with Thoracle or any of the other high power cedh staples ever show up in our casual games. This was a giant 'fuck you' to the cedh scene.

[@FarNorthMtG]

Hey that Jeska/Ishai game is my video 😂 let’s goooo Love seeing the statistics you brought up here. I definitely would have done the ban list different if I was in charge of it but I can’t deny that I’m curious to see where the format goes from here. For Tivit I’m not sure it’s actually hurt /that/ badly, as you said not having to worry about feeding dockside is big for the deck and I’ve heard Tivit pilots already joking about how Jeweled Lotus was bad in the deck because tapping out for Tivit before you’re ready to win is bad Great video :)

[@shazaaaaaam]

Of course dockside win rate is high bc it’s a WINCON 😂

[@wafflehaxxx]

Yeah I can only imagine Thassa's Oracle win/play ratio.

[@mentosmuncher]

These three cards essentially were keeping Godo relevant. Red is a fun color, aggro/turbo is fun. It was only as strong as how fast your table was shoving down rocks and Enchantments. If people weren't running that many rocks and Enchantments or at least sandbagging them and playing when they absolutely need it or without a way of preventing or Punishing dockside etbs then of course it's going to profit.

[@pierrebuthaud7640]

On the clones thingy, I've grown more and more found of them Dockside or not. I have so many good (sometimes game winning) clones moment I had from the top of my head. My hot take is that they were always good but people needed a dockside to realize it. I mean don't run like 8 clones now but for sure don't cut all of them.

[@Windowlick_]

Technically Jeweled Lotus can still be used in Legacy and Vintage with Doubling Cube, but those decks are so bad that they might as well not exist.

[@cedhtv]

hahahaha

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

Mate you have stuff that can animate enchantments so you literally can turn battle of wits into a creature and swing for game, so yeah you can always pull the it can still be used but we both know that's semantics and not the same thing as the card will never be used as it is meant to be as outside of animating it then they are both just rocks that do nothing but take up card slots. Though i will say if you make a Battle of Wits deck to animate it and win with it as your creature then that would be on theme of it being a battle of wits and more so if you happen to start reaching the realm of competitive viability since the deck will have blue in it lol

[@alexnunes3022]

While I must applaud the statistical sophistication of data representation, looking at win rates for cards appearing in a match could be misleading for power level of a card, especially when comparing to win rates of cards in different categories like wincon/ramp/draw/interaction. Sure the win rate for sol ring is going to be less than dockside. Sol ring is played nearly without considering board state and is included in more decks. Dockside is a wincon in a lot of decks, or makes so much mana that it enables the wincon early meaning it will be sandbagged until the win is present. I’m sure this is apparent to most and statistics like this aren’t the reason for the banning. Just good to keep in perspective when thinking toward the future of rating cards and looking at game statistics.

[@monsteranderdahl3442]

The part of them saying they are working on things to help with the rule zero in cassual games and then banning cards coz ppl dont have rule zero talks at those tables are wild to me. So so wild. When i play cassual at home we dont play with fast mana, we talk about what we have and dont have in the decks. That all ppl need to do, talk a bit. Sad day for my grenzo. Thank you for the awesome vid and your thoughs on it big M.

[@henkdachief]

nobody wants to have some lengthy discussion half the players dont even get the point of, thats so so wild to me how people think like this

[@monsteranderdahl3442]

@@henkdachief yeah thats why i mainly play cedh or with an established group. But if the rc pushes on the rule zero talk and disregard from it when they take mandate about banning cards i think that is lazy, as is the point of not wanting to taking 2 min to talk to 3 other persons if you are going to play a cassual game. Also not wanting to take those few minutes with random ppl is realy selfish and will not get you back into more games.

[@Schatten941]

But rule 0 doesnt work if you play with a lot of people you never played before. I have an environment where I meet a lot of people and nobody knows what to expect. I even wished they would have also banned sol ring.

[@1ManaFloating]

feel honored to be apart of the video's you are watching for this project! Thank you!!!

[@DarknessChampion]

After thinking about it, I just don't know who these bans were for. Casual players will rule 0 out any stuff they don't like in their local groups. Salty casuals will just choose not to play against stuff they dislike. Competitive players play the format because they want access to all the most powerful, broken stuff and know exactly what they are signing up for. Yet, competitive players like our favorite tourney goers are literally bound by these rules. So who benefits from the changes? No one...?

[@lorenzocena631]

Now that dataset is REALLY incredible! You're a mad scientist

[@addictedtomints9433]

Lions eye diamond and mox diamond are now must cards. Ugh they are so freakin expensiveeee

[@cedhtv]

Proxy, what if those cards are next!

[@CanadianBigMek]

Having actually owned in paper in NM condition the following: Mana Crypt (Original book promo) Jeweled Lotus Foil Borderlesa original printing Grim Monolith Mox Diamond and also FTV Foil Chrome Mox GT Promo only art Mox Opal Masterpiece Mox Amber schematic F old border Lotus Petal (Player reward alt art F) Lions Eye Diamond Mana Vault FBB original art Sol Ring I Plsyed CEDH, I Bought the cards to play when proxies were frowned apon, so could actually play legally in tournaments. AFTER TAKING A NEAR $1200 CDN Loss to my collection because RC gave no Legtimate reason for it but kept poisonous cards like Orcish Bowmasters Thasas oracle Etc.. I can finally say, CEDH either becomes it's own format or I join join what is l3ft of legacy and move on from magic in general. Tired of having my collection turned to doggy shit and my hard earned cash trashed because of a 3rd party persons opinion who has there hands in the cookie jar taking a cut under the table. So who's betting the RC in its entirety sold out every copy they had in there binders to the market last week so they could profit?

[@pierrebuthaud7640]

Love it or hate it, it's going to change drastically the meta and I think it's always good to "reshuffle the cards" from time to time as we say in french. What's actually funny is banning Mana crypt was already a nerf to dockside. Could have been interesting for Cedh to see a world without the Mana Crypt/Vault but with Dockside. Btw (proxy put aside), it's a huge win for the budget Cedh players out there. A lot of things have good budget alternatives in the format :interaction from 0 to 1 mana, combos, dorks, draw engines... Dockside, Lotus and Crypt where part of the few cards with litteraly 0 budget alternatives. The slower the format, the more people can start building in it for a budget. And that's a good thing. cEDH is a beautiful game and those ban makes it way more accessible. (+ as a Lonis lover, I can finally make Clues without being scared as hell)

[@wesleymitchell2460]

Not particularly. Magda, one of the cheapest and most powerful decks you could play was hit EXTREMELY hard by this banning. The next best cards will float to the surface and those will spike in price. It’s how the game rolls.

[@pierrebuthaud7640]

@@wesleymitchell2460 that's why I was not talking about the best cards but about replacability. Of course some stuff will rise in price but there are very few cards in the format with 0 at least viable if not good budget alternatives. Dockside and crypt were one of those.

[@riverswater5688]

Screw the unofficial CRC. Like they said a while back, we should all just do rule zero… Thus nullifying their BS

[@kradwolf5719]

If they taking my mono-red ramp, I demand enchantment removal in mono-red. The last few sets were difficult enough with the amount of must remove enchantments, now we got rooms and brambles.

[@alessio84ap]

Rip cEDH, we had fun

[@baz_wtf]

Great video. I was initially really sad as a Tivit player. but dockside not being around probably makes Tivit better tbh, even if we're losing Crypt and JLo. Less frequent turn1 Rhystic Studies is a big hit. but if the format is slowing a little then its maybe not so bad. I do think Kinnan and Rog Si got sooooo much better though

[@jamesmiranda4239]

Not me in the middle of brewing a deck completely based around dockside 😅 Dockside ban feels real bad for CEDH

[@testthewest123]

Why? It is OP, it has been done to death, we can move on? Still more than enough busted things to do in cEDH, no?

[@jaydonthewarrior636]

@@testthewest123 Because it's fun, dockside was fun. It enabled a lot of niche decks and combos in interesting ways.

[@Naustrix]

@@jaydonthewarrior636yep decks like godo and Magda take the biggest hits by far

[@zweis]

​@@testthewest123 I think there was a big problem with Dockside loops but it was also one of the few cards in the format that let seat 4 come back

[@henkdachief]

well every second deck was brewed around dockside i dont feel sorry for you

[@bradlygodbey5873]

I love you so much! This made me feel a little better about today. a little..

[@cedhtv]

hahaha. I guess I did something good.

[@BuleGamer96]

Could you do an agreement between cedh channels in youtube that keep jeweled lotus, mana crypt and dockside running? Cedh will slow down and it was funny how a single dockside can start a war in the pile.

[@davecrepaldi8341]

A possible solution to the RCs reasoning with out banning any of those cards (Nadu excluded) 1. No more than one mana producing artifact can be played each turn. 2. Treasure tokens errata’d to tap, sac, create 1 mama of any colour, lose 1 life. 3. Jewelled lotus cannot be played for the first 2 turns.

[@ThePainHyuga]

I played Turbo Etali in cEDH, literally lost the 3 best ramps, and the main combo piece for most of the combos, so probably that deck is dead...

[@cedhtv]

Yeah damn Etali will suffer from this.

[@docirish5303]

I feel ya pain there. Big dino is gonna be slower now.

[@telph3223]

You're a true legend for getting all of that data from youtube. Thats a crazy amount of work.

[@snotice12]

They made their money then shafted the players! Ridiculous!

[@pmdm5942]

Thanks for you reasonable, and statistically backed take on the bans. I'm curious as to how many other decks will rise and fall because of this change. My poor Jin-gitaxias deck probably will have to pick up 2 new control pieces to replace lotus and crypt with. I think the thing that the Jeweled Lotus changes the most, is that in casual it will b harder to play higher cmc Commanders. Lotus really helped enable them. Not that it affects things to that extent in cedh.

[@PubStompMTG]

RIP to everyone who owns these cards.

[@Lemon_Sage9999]

My friend is completely flattened by this... No one was expecting this, except Nadu

[@tym6217]

@@Lemon_Sage9999 At least Nadu was a cheap card compared to the other 3. Conversely it was a potential commander though, so it could potentially be even more expensive than the other 3 if people had their entire decks invalidated.

[@danknstein6504]

Gambling is not profitable and compulsive gamblers are victims who are being exploited by predators who make a SHIT LOAD of money from their misery. Stop supporting gambling scams like buying magic cards if you actually feel bad for the people who are getting fucked. Game pieces shouldn't cost hundreds of dollars nor should they be an investment portfolio, anyone who says otherwise either owns the slot machine or wants to pump up the bag they're holding to make someone else's problem and finally get their money back from their "investment"

[@TheRealLachlan]

Dude I'm so mad, I paid $2 for a dockside proxy. I'm so mad rn

[@ayu5tails]

RIP RC. Time to have a new RC

[@jamesc.7216]

I can understand that the RC probably got tired of playing against turn 1 or 2 Voja, Narset, or Dark Lord Sauron. I also dislike that all the new self contained combo battleship commanders have ward. I'd just like to see Thassa's Oracle catch a ban too. They are worried about fast starts being too consistent, what about 3 mana I win?

[@commander_k7748]

The RC is absolutely BRAINDEAD Fuck em we need a new RC

[@CoL_Drake]

best bans ever. they make bans for the most players and not give a crap about cedh

[@Lemon_Sage9999]

​@@CoL_Drake Wrong. "Most players" use Rule zero to self-regulate fast mana. You are right that they dgaf about the cEDH game, but it isn't the ignorant way of dismissal, it's an arrogant and spiteful dismissal of power players AS A WHOLE and it's an ignorant dismissal of their internal ruleset. It's complete BS and you know it

[@CyrusdVulture]

Nah this is fine.

[@tovarvonbrandt7157]

Yeah, let's have 2h games now.

[@sir_quirkus7206]

I’m calling olivia booger dicks is behind this lmao she gets salty when someone ramps with a natures lore

[@dragade101]

Gooooodness! Love that these cards are getting booted. And some should have seen this coming (if you are salty about an EDH only card getting banned cause it was too inaccessible for players, you shouldnt buy whatever copies you ended up with).

[@stewalla3916]

Yuriko looks a good option now

[@cedhtv]

haha YES! She dosen't care one bit about mana crypt actully. Quite funny.

[@codykizer6359]

You're the goat! Coming in clutch to help the community. Figure it out while we mourn.

[@balonius]

Crypt is the only surprise, tbh.

[@Mrchepss]

I start playing cedh because of u my friend. I remember your Estrid cedh video😢, so thanks for that my dude. I sold everything relating to cedh 3 years ago after the hullbreach ban, I knew that sonner than later the rules committee will go crazy and fuc# everybody up. W the money I brought a lot of reserved list cards and that was my best move for real, I encourage all of u doing the same, because de rules committee don't give a f about the players Its a sad day to the cedh community, because some randoms dudes are trying to impose on the players how they should play. It's almost like some dictatorship bullsh&t . Hope cedh takes his own path. Its the best for the format.

[@SamuelKyle-p3d]

I wonder how much of the market it wipes out. check listings from yesterday to a week from today, see how much money we all lost

[@nikolaskohl4269]

I wonder if shifting cEDH over to MTGO and make it it's own format could solve a lot of problems. It would at least be more accessible than paper decks, Wizards could make something off cEDH staples rather than lose 100% to proxies, it would get cEDH away from the RC, and it would also help with issues like shuffle cheating. Never thought I'd be maybe on board with Wizards being in charge of cEDH, but hey, maybe? They would just have to do it in a way that doesn't scalp players on the cards they are already playing because I feel like players will have very low tolerance for high price digital cards that they can already play elsewhere.

[@friendo6257]

This ban is dumb. I hate it

[@iPhoneeditor]

As far as casual commander goes, these seem fine and probably won't affect much. From a cEDH perspective these are going to cause A LOT of changes. Notably, mana and pip-intensive commanders, particularly niche builds that benefitted a lot from Jeweled lotus (and sometimes mana crypt) got hit really hard. Godo for example lost 3 pieces immediately. Displacer kitten, hullbreaker horror, tidespout tyrant, and mox opal all effectively got worse with crypt gone. Several decks in the format revolve around dockside and are effectively going to fall off the map. Dargo decks and Korvold come to mind. The density of clone effects is probably going to dip as well as dockside was one of the premier cloning targets. One very interesting thing is that a lot of decks that leaned heavily into artifact and enchantment strategies that were seen as bad primarily because they "fed dockside" are going to be a lot stronger and there is going to be some room for innovation there. Nadu being banned is kinda whatever, I hated seeing that card. It looks like boogeyman Kinnan is going to come back with a vengeance but I'm curious what people are going to brew in this space as the new format develops. I'm guessing losing turbo options is going to make us lean harder back into midrange hell.

[@randomguy1983]

Jeweled lotus is a commander only card. It, literally, has no other format to exist in. If you pulled a jeweled lotus or bought a jeweled lotus.. congrats, you paid for useless cardboard that can’t even be played in the game it was intended to be used in. A dockside ban is also just crazy. It may have accelerated you, but it didn’t directly win you the game. Mana crypt shouldn’t be banned if they aren’t banning mana vault or sol ring. Nadu was a mistake. Everyone knows how broken it was.

[@MeowHoots]

Funny enough it seen play in legacy due to doubling cube

[@Worldly_Pitfall3]

@@MeowHoots true but the deck is hot garbage even if it's a cool interaction

[@joshuajohnson1448]

This seriously feels like the RC telling us that cedh didn’t belong in their format and we need to do our own thing. The failed attempt at a cedh RC will most likely be revisited in my opinion

[@julianhugen8760]

So sad. I was waiting for your video all day, just to know your thoughts about Mana Crypt, because are not straight replacement for it, and you say "we don't need to talk about mana crypt" 😥

[@cedhtv]

I had alredy said so much about it. ANd the video was alredy so long. Ask me anything what do you wanna know?

[@julianhugen8760]

@@cedhtv You are the best. Even with so many fallowers you answer the questions on the comments and even create a top quality research on cards and tornaments. After said that, what would be the direct card swamping in you opinion for it? I know that probably depends of the deck, but what pops in your mind? ^^

[@NovemberStreams]

Going to build a three power-level Commander-equivalent format for my local shop. Commander is too broad for two power levels, competitive and not competitive. A third, lower "battlecruiser" level is needed.

[@ekolimitsLIVE]

They only did this because cEDH players started making rumors about splitting off. Every king flexes his muscles to tighten his grip moments before he loses his power. This isn’t going to go well for them.

[@cedhtv]

You really think so? I don't think they care or think much about us.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

Speak for yourself. This is good for the game.

[@luisvicharra9849]

Who's next? The moxen? Ancient tomb?

[@cedhtv]

At this point all bets are off. Anything can happen.

[@dustin89clanton]

I’m just shocked Thassa’s Oracle didn’t get banned, it’s reprint value is low, the wins feel shallow in casual, losses feel out of nowhere, and it’s been the boogie man of the format since it’s release. (I say this as a Yuriko player with TO as my main win con at cEDH tables)

[@toedrag-release]

I put my money on -ancient tomb -mana vault -thassas Oracle Are next on the chopping block

[@iPhoneeditor]

Ancient Tomb can't be played in addition to your normal land drop and always makes you take 2 damage when tapped unlike mana crypt (including the turn it was played unlike crypt) where the life loss was inconsistent and averages out to around 1.5 per turn. The moxen that we have require other cards in play or generate card disadvantage to generate their mana and are nowhere near as explosive. They will likely stay.

[@iPhoneeditor]

@@toedrag-release I don't think so. Ancient tomb isn't fast mana in the same way as it can't be played in addition to your land drop and always makes you take the damage (including the turn you play it potentially unlike mana crypt, and it's more damage on average if you tap it every turn). Mana vault is strong but harder to abuse and I don't see this getting the axe given they already hit Mana Crypt. Thassa's Oracle is a mediocre card on it's own that can be played "fairly" in casual decks that care about wizards, merfolk, devotion to blue, or top deck manipulation and rarely "wins on the spot" in casual EDH and for decks that can win with it, it is largely just another lab-man esc piece. The community is largely self-policing about it and it hasn't been a widespread nuisance. Banning it solely because it facilitates a two card win condition in commander also opens up a can of worms for banning other cards that can do two card combos that are otherwise fine individually and see a fair amount of play across the format - ex. hitting one of the pieces for witherbloom apprentice and chain of smog or twinflame and dualcaster mage. I don't foresee these getting banned any time soon by the commander RC.

[@0scarbrav0]

Think outside the format on what this does to investor's or collector's that have attended the Cons and waited the artists line to pay for their multiple copies of Jeweled Lotus to be signed by the artist. The value effect alone will make a lot of fans bitter.

[@alexmouco8543]

I think more important than the bans themselves is the information they convey with this announcement. This announcement highlights the impact of Sheldon's absence after his passing (RIP) in maintaining a philosophy within the format. Almost everything was free to use because he believed in the common sense of each playgroup, and thus left the 'Rule Zero' for power level control. In other words, he didn’t impose anything. Now Wizards declares a regulation and establishes 'Sol Ring' as an identity of the format, giving up the autonomy that 'Rule Zero' provided, and even seeks to introduce silver-bordered cards into the format. What’s different now is the absence of Sheldon to maintain the previous state of analysis regarding cards and the format.

[@frankmagyar5532]

I thought the same

[@P3rvenc]

Common sense never worked unless you played with the same 3 friends forever, if you go to a lgs, one player plays a worsen precon (aka bought a precon and sold the expensive cards), the other is playing a staple tribal, the other is playing a borderline cedh deck, the other is playing a "all cards art must have a chair" tribal, there's no consensus on a table with 4 random people, the format needs to be regulated

[@jaydonthewarrior636]

@@P3rvenc That's the point behind a rules 0 conversation, and no number of bans will fix that. There will always be really powerful decks, and there will always been less powerful decks. There isn't a way of stopping power-level disparity beyond banning every card in the format, or talking to people before you play the game.

[@alexmouco8543]

@@jaydonthewarrior636 This!

[@alexnunes3022]

Having a full split on edh and cEDH would be a big step. If the entire cEDH community picked up and left the RC ban list behind I think it would push for more separation between the two formats. While Dockside, Mana Crypt and Jeweled lotus mean a lot, that’s not enough to start a new format. Most of the other cards on the RC ban list becoming legal in cEDH wouldn’t make much of an impact. So that just means more bans is the way to go. Otherwise top tier EDH would just be an awkward cousin to cEDH and pubstomping would be more prevalent because people would hedge around the ban list instead of going to play “cEDH” like they probably should. If the argument is the RC wants people to police themselves, then why did this happen? The RC has said that they aim to provide guidance for players to police their own games and ban cards as a rubric for what types of cards they believe create an unfavorable casual experience. If that’s true in a post separation of c-edh then I believe they have more work to do. Coming into magic as a newbie knowing that cEDH is supposed to be a different format then just getting stomped by thoracle or breach would just feel bad and people would undoubtedly use the separation to defend pubstomping.

[@travelmind5487]

Jeweld lotus ( I have one but never played it in my sisay or korvold list, so does not really hit me that much) was a card made for commander, a chase card and they ban it. What a joke. Most of the time i play with a friend and we don't care about the bannings. We both got a crypt and a dockside and we still going to play them.

[@cedhtv]

Yeah keep playing them. If you dissagree with the RC ignore them. Do your own thing.

[@Rukalin]

It's not the RC's fault if WOTC designs cards that solely rely on a single format

[@Nemissis4265]

​@Rukalin yes it is their fault they make the bans loool without wizerds Magic would never be a thing. Not a hard concept

[@travelmind5487]

@@Rukalin It's they're fault for banning a card that ist Not Ban worthy. I dont Play jeweled Lotus myself but i got a solring in both Decks, sol Ring is reusable, can be used multiple Times and with basically No restriction. Most of the time i prefer my opponent to have a jeweled Lotus rather than a sol Ring or mana Crypt often even some of the moxes.

[@nathanwiens108]

I'm happy to see Dockside out. But I also want Bowmasters, Rhystic, and Rograkh banned. Bowmasters creates awful play patterns around its targeting and causing collateral damage but not actually punishing those drawing. Rhystic just sticks around too long, but maybe it'll be slowed down by the loss of some fast mana (probably not). Rograkh turns on too many things (amber, interaction, sac effects).

[@fluffylegend294]

Terrible bans, 3/4 of them. No more red, everyone must play blue now, no gruul, no Naya, none of that

[@livanbard]

dockside didn't clutched that hard lol if it did red would had better placements.

[@sharkmanyt4431]

Underworld breach still exists

[@guitarID]

Red without blue takes a huge hit. It's a buff to blue as breach/brain freeze is the easiest breach line.

[@khub5660]

​@sharkmanyt4431 yeah, for Grixis piles lol

[@sharkmanyt4431]

@@fluffylegend294 I’m happy to see Nadu go tho

[@tonyrosetti2738]

I am sorry for people who got hurt money wise for this. I think people convince themselves that paying thousands of dollars for cardboard is okay “because it’s an investment”. Events like this show how dangerous an attitude that is. Gameplay wise, I’m fine with it. They haven’t cut all fast mana, but this will reduce the number of fast mana explosions in cEDH, which is fine. Honestly, for cEDH the only one I’m worried about is Dockside. Breach is the only thing red has to stand on now. Hopefully there will be some better red options in the future or cEDH is going to become even more cSultai than it already was.

[@ISEESPACEMONKEYS00]

I’m sad I can’t play with my cards anymore but I’m happy to get to brewing new decks and modding old ones. Gonna be fun.

[@cedhtv]

I AGREE! I think we are fine. I have played cEDH without all of those cards except mana crypt. And I still build cool decks.

[@HamburgCEDH]

The C in cedh stands for Dockside

[@cedhtv]

No that is the D. Competitive Elder Dockside highlander.

[@SenorCoupon]

@@cedhtv Cryptpetitive Elder Dockside Highlotus

[@ricardoziccarelli4243]

ezziest way to tell us, lets make cEDH a separated format, gg wp

[@msolace580]

time to split the groups 100%

[@em3sis]

Worst bannings ever

[@CoL_Drake]

best bans ever

[@Lemon_Sage9999]

Worst bannings ever, this is a casual banlist for the casual format now.. it's against their mission statement, they want to encourage people to Rule Zero out all fastmana if they don't want to play with it...

[@bwild40]

I agree worst ban for Cedh players because they are completely trying to make Commander only for casual and screw over Cedh players. That's how I feel it's been lol .

[@orvar7035]

Just like duskmourne. The world's a nightmare now

[@em3sis]

Inb4 mana vault is the chase mythic in the next premium set